Welcome to this special episode of the B.rad podcast, where Brad Kearns visits American record holding middle distance runner Shelby Houlihan at her high-altitude training camp in Flagstaff, AZ.
You learn about how a champion athlete has to cultivate a singular focus and narrow mindset but how this can lead to disappointment and frustration when you attach too much of your self esteem to results. its double edge sword but we talk about the sweet spot where you can still be a vicious competitor but also a well-balanced person. You learn about how Shelby spent her off time still training at a high level, doing some incredible time trials, getting a masters in sports psych, and making a great effort to broaden her perspective about life and sport. You learn about the business of T&F, a somewhat unpleasant topic when you realize how even the greatest athletes have very tenuous career prospects. This is a woman who has dedicated her life to elite sport and it was an honor to see such amazing resilience and maturity as she tells her incredible story. You don’t have to be a track fan to deeply appreciate this interview.
Please listen to the entire riveting two hours as we get the lowdown from someone who is about to go wild on the track and get some more records and titles.
TIMESTAMPS:
Shelby Houlihan has quite a story to tell about her experience with the anti-doping system. [02:02]
After her four-year suspension, Shelby is looking forward to coming back into competition, although she is feeling frustrated. [05:15]
For her comeback she still doesn’t want to use super spikes. She wants to run fast naturally not faster because of her shoes. [08:20]
There are people, the haters, that don’t believe Shelby’s story. [14:06]
Track and Field journalism field is rather small. Have they treated Shelby fairly? [18:09]
Even when disqualified, Shelby ran because it was her identity. [20:57]
Teaching sports psychology is a good place for her with all her experience. [25:52]
A lot of athletes have a hard time with retirement….trying to figure out who they are without competition. [29:57]
Has Shelby been able to cheer her friends on even though she, herself, isn’t running? [32:43]
The biggest problem with elite athletes is over-training. [38:20]
There are many injured athletes that return to competition too soon. If you rush it, you’re going to pay later. [54:48]
Upon Shelby’s suspension, she lost her sponsors. [57:53]
Unfortunately, some other elite athletes were not supportive of Shelby. Most athletes don’t understand what happens with the testing system. [01:02:11]
Many athletes are doping and fans like to watch the sports. [01:08:51]
How is Shelby going to handle the comeback? She hopes it will still be fun. [01:12:35]
How will the crowd receive her? [01:16:24]
How did she handle the fact that she knew she was clean, but had accept the suspension? [01:18:58]
How is the team environment with her comeback? [01:22:01]
Why are shoe sponsors so important over other products? [01:31:24]
The Beer Mile World Championship was a fun challenge. [01:31:41]
How much importance does she put on breaking her records? How does aging effect the athlete? [01:42:54]
What does Shelby’s training week look like? [01:50:10]
LINKS:
- Brad Kearns.com
- Brad’s Shopping page
- B.rad Whey Protein Isolate Superfuel – The Best Protein on The Planet! Available in Three Delicious Flavors: Vanilla Bean and Cocoa Bean and our Newest Flavor, Peanut Butter!
- B.rad Superfruits – Organic Freeze-Dried Exotic Fruit Powder! Natural Electrolyte Hydration & Energy Powder
- Shelby Houlihan talks about her controversial and unjust doping suspension in 2022
- Instagram @Shelbo800
- Podcast with Shelby in 2022
- Coe wins in Los Angeles
- Normatec
- NY Times article on Ingebrigsten
LISTEN:
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TRANSCRIPT:
Brad (00:00:00):
Welcome to the B.rad podcast, where we explore ways to pursue peak performance with passion throughout life without taking ourselves too seriously. I’m Brad Kearns, New York Times bestselling author, former number three world ranked professional triathlete and Guinness World Record Masters athlete. I connect with experts in diet, fitness, and personal growth, and deliver short breather shows where you get simple actionable tips to improve your life right away. Let’s explore beyond the hype hacks, shortcuts, and science talk to laugh, have fun and appreciate the journey. It’s time to B.rad.
Shelby (00:00:38):
It’s, uh, I go back and forth too ’cause it’s just like I do wanna, you know, conduct myself in a way that I’m proud of and like, you know, is respectful as well. But yeah, there’s that little part of me that’s like I do kind of wanna just like middle finger to the haters. And
Brad (00:00:54):
The champ is back. I am so excited to bring you this incredible in-person interview with Shelby Houlahan, one of the greatest middle distance runners in the world. I traveled to her high altitude training camp in Flagstaff, Arizona. She spent a wonderful afternoon, generous with her time as we talked in depth on all aspects of her amazing, incredible story. She’s just completed her four year layoff from a highly unjust and controversial doping suspension, and now she’s returning to competition as we approach the US and world indoor season. This discussion, I’m gonna call it a masterclass on developing the ideal perspective and mindset of a champion athlete and a peak performer. Because Shelby has been through hell like few other athletes, where her livelihood, her status in elite sport, was taken away in an instant with that highly controversial doping suspension that we discussed in detail during our first interview on the B.rad Podcast back in 2022.
Brad (00:02:02):
So please, please listen to that program. You’re gonna learn all about the craziness of the anti-doping system in elite sport and how it can be extremely unfair, where athletes face a lack of due process, they’re forced to defend themselves, they’re guilty until proven innocent. We went into detail on the first show, we recap it a bit here and it gives you a nice overview, but we really wanna focus on what Shelby’s been doing during her off time, which has been some amazing things, especially working on her attitude, her mindset, broadening her perspective, realizing that this singular focus and this narrow mindset that we demand from athletes can often lead to disappointment and frustration in real life when you attach too much of your self-esteem to the results. So it’s kind of like a double-edged sword because we have to hone that amazing competitive intensity to succeed.
Brad (00:02:58):
But we talk about finding this sweet spot where you can be a well-balanced person and still have amazing competitive intensity. We talk about these time trials that she did by herself during her time off with no true competitions on the horizon, but still going out and running world class times. Absolutely stunning. She went and got a Master’s in sports psychology. We’ll talk about that and we’re gonna get into what’s ahead with her future competitive goals. Oh, of course we’re gonna talk about her world record in the beer mile that she achieved last year. And boy, I gotta tell you, it was so great to finally meet her in person and see her smile because I was heartbroken right alongside her during the suspension, realizing and digging deeper into the story and realizing how unjust it was. So it was a joyous occasion to meet.
Brad (00:03:54):
And I think even if you’re not a track fan and we don’t need to get into the nitty gritty details of how she trains, you’re gonna get a wonderful education and inspiration from the show. But indeed, for the track fans listening, we do get into some amazing details. And I’m gonna give you like a spoiler alert towards the end of the show, ’cause I asked her to describe her weekly workout patterns and some of her big workouts, and she said, oh, sure, I just did a great one the other day. And she talked about doing a set of 30 times 300 meters on the track at paces of 49 to 51 seconds each at high altitude with minimal rest. And I described this in amusement because one of my signature workouts for my sprint training is three times 300 at around that time <laugh>. So that’s right. I said she did 30 and I did three. So I extend my generous offer to train with her as she is looking for training partners whereby I can jump in for the first three and then cheer her on for the other 27. Here we go with Shelby Houlihan, the American record holder in the 1500 meters, and she’s coming back to get some mole medals and some more records. So enjoy this conversation.
Brad (00:05:14):
Shelby Houlihan in person.
Shelby (00:05:16):
Yes.
Brad (00:05:17):
What an honor to visit with the American record holder. And I have to say, this is a fabulously wondrous occasion because you’re a free woman. Finally. And the last time we talked, oh, I was in the midst of your, your layoff. It was a heart wrenching story. I want everyone to go back and listen to that first podcast with Shelby, where we recap the an athlete racing at the peak of their career and then having this completely shocking and surprising positive tests, the ordeal that you went through the injustice of the doping system. Guilty until proven innocent. Have you guys learned that in school? No, I don’t think so. I think it was the other way around in America. <laugh>. Yeah. I wanna start with your, your post that you put up on January 15th where you said, I feel a sense of relief, happiness and pride now that your four years is up. Mm-hmm. You’re ready to come back, but you’re also has feelings of an anger and sadness mm-hmm
Shelby (00:06:16):
<affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that kind of sums it up. I like, again, being able to like finally be done with the ban and free, it’s like this kinda weight off my shoulders, and happy that I can like really get back to doing what I love and be free and not have to like always feel like, oh, do I need to check and make sure I can do this or that? And so it just feels nice to not have to ask permission for things <laugh>.
Brad (00:06:45):
Oh, right. Because when you’re, when you’re not able to compete, you’re also not able to engage with things like coach, training partners and all that.
Shelby (00:06:54):
Yeah. And it’s like pretty nuanced, right? So it’s like you can,
Brad (00:06:57):
You can have a hamburger, I
Shelby (00:06:59):
Think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s just like I can, I can do like little local road races that aren’t like U-S-A-T-F affiliated or things like that. So like there was like, you can do some things but you can’t do other things. And it was really a gray line of like what that exactly is. And I, you know, trying to like reach out and every time I wanted to do something I’m emailing just like, Hey, this is what I wanna do, is this okay? And, you know, it’s, you don’t always get a straight answer, which was frustrating because I’m like, I’m actually like really trying to follow the rules, just like, tell me if I can or can’t do this. So it’s, yeah, that was kind of hard to navigate. I’m happy I don’t have to do that anymore. And I have a lot of, I guess like I, I do feel like really proud that I made it through and like I, I am proud of how I handled it and, and everything. But again, like it’s, I’m still really, really mad that I have a lot of anger when I think about like, having to go through it in the first place. Sad that I like still grieving everything that I lost and like what could have been. So there’s just, yeah, there’s a whole lot of different emotions associated with it. But really trying to focus on the positive and be excited to come back.
Brad (00:08:20):
Yeah, that’s well said. I mean the anger and I guess the resentment too for someone who is the highest, we were just talking and we’re gonna talk about it soon, about the, the super spikes and your reluctance to use them due to that high moral standard that you wanna earn these times that were set by athletes before, like your own American record of 03:54 was set before the use of the super spikes, which I just learned. Which is so stunning because everyone’s saying these spikes are giving a decided advantage, even over 1500 meters of two to three seconds. So, um, we’re looking forward to your comeback ’cause ’cause you’re gonna be smoking some fast times, but you don’t even want to use the spikes and haven’t used them yet. I mean, we should jump right there to that.
Shelby (00:09:01):
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of, as, as I was saying earlier, it’s, I am, yeah, I have, I’m just having like a very hard, I have a ethical line there for me and I know people are, everyone’s wearing them now, and so it’s like, okay, I am trying to be open-minded of like, it’s okay that the sport is evolving and, you know, technology is evolving and I maybe need to be open-minded to that and not get left behind, but they are, it’s a hard ethical line for me where it’s like, if we’re all kind of knowing that putting on just putting on these shoes will make us run faster. Like that’s not natural. So and like, it just, it’s that I have a hard time I think with that, where it’s like, okay, that’s not really me anymore. If I’m, if that’s the difference between running 03:54 and 03:51 is just putting on a pair of shoes. Like I have a hard time with that. Yeah. Um,
Brad (00:09:55):
I, I think, I think we all should because we’re comparing, especially in track and field, um, you know, it’s not the Super Bowl where they have better shoulder pads that are smaller so they can move more. But we’re, we’re comparing against history in, in the greatest runners of all time in the all time list mm-hmm <affirmative>. And now that’s completely blown up and that’s rough for true fans.
Shelby (00:10:15):
Yeah.
Brad (00:10:16):
But I would encourage you to use them because if all the, if if the eight finalists, if there’s seven of ’em wearing super spikes and you’re, you know, firmly, firmly against it, you, you’re gonna have to try to win the race because that’s another goal of, of competing too.
Shelby (00:10:30):
Yeah, absolutely. And I’ve, I’ve kind of been fighting with myself on it for sure. Like <laugh>, even in Doha, I feel like I was like the only one not wearing the spikes. And that
Brad (00:10:39):
Was the World Championships 2019. Yep. Fourth place right here.
Shelby (00:10:42):
That’s where I did set the American record. So it’s,
Brad (00:10:44):
And you, you were the only one not wearing the spikes.
Shelby (00:10:46):
Yeah. At least in the top. However, however many. I don’t know. But like, yeah, and, and even my coach at the time, Jerry, he’s just like, what if that was the difference between fourth and getting a medal? And I’m like, that’s exactly why I don’t wanna use them. Yeah. Because like, I don’t want it to be because of the shoes I wore. I’m happy, I’m proud of, with the race that I ran, I felt like I did everything I could. And if, if it were, if it was just ’cause of the shoes, like that’s, it is what it is, uh, I prefer to, you know, look at it as like, oh, well maybe if I tactically ran this better or maybe I drank more water before and was more hydrated or like, got more sleep or like, just things that I could like really control. Yeah. I have a hard time with it just being about the shoes. But yeah, I mean, everyone is running really fast and I’m kind of having that ethical dilemma of like, am I this being stubborn? And like, is anyone gonna really give a crap what shoes I wore 20 years from now? And like, um, yeah. So I, I don’t know. I’m, I’m having a hard time and trying to see both sides.
Brad (00:11:52):
Wow. I was, I was thinking you were gonna make a little side quip on this and move on to the next thing, but you’re, you’re really like, you’re really, this is really weight you down. It is.
Shelby (00:12:00):
It Is. Yeah. That’s good. I’m still like, really struggling with this. Yeah. I’m, my next step is to try to like, get a pair of the shoes and like, at least try them mountains and strides or workouts and like, just try to get myself there. But I’m not sure yet. I haven’t, I haven’t worn them. I did try them when they were first coming out and I didn’t love them. I don’t like that you’re so far off the track. I can’t feel the ground. Like I’m, I like to dig my toes in the ground and push off and I, yeah. I can’t do that. So it’s just, I don’t like the way they feel. Yeah. So, I don’t know. I guess time will tell, we’ll see if I kind of come around, but I’m trying to be more open to it. So, you know, I don’t wanna, I wanna be able to change as the sport changes on. I don’t wanna be too stubborn and stuck in my ways. So I’m just trying to get myself there.
Brad (00:12:51):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I guess arguably the most important thing is racing and also having a level playing field, which is why we have anti-doping and people who could ring your doorbell at any time. And everyone else who’s in the, in the elite pool. So that’s what we’re striving for. And, you know, if everyone gets the shoes, which at first was really strange because some people didn’t have ’em. Like, like in Doha you didn’t have ’em. They should have like forced you to wear ’em. So we could pick a true winner from the fan perspective. Yeah. I mean,
Shelby (00:13:22):
I, I suppose I see that.
Brad (00:13:24):
Yeah. And then like you train on all weather track instead of cinder, I assume mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, you know, 40 years ago or whatever, um, 50, 60 years ago, they didn’t have those. And that was an innovation that was the same for everybody. So I encourage you to look at, look at it that way. But this is really interesting to compare and contrast to. Like, they’re still kind of people out there that are, I would, I would call ’em haters that are uninformed and like, don’t believe you, but it’s like in terms of your violation and you saying like, you don’t know how this substance, this trace amount got into your body. That’s gotta be heartbreaking when they don’t know you and they don’t believe you. But if you don’t know her, how can you, how can you make a judgment like that?
Brad (00:14:06):
Especially with, just for a quick recap, I said I wanted to get into a little bit, but like, you passed all these tests before mm-hmm <affirmative>. You passed all these tests right after, and you had this tiny amount that is confirmed. You have no effect on your physiology. In other words, no performance benefit. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So like what’s there to believe or not believe it? Like it didn’t help your performance and you have a clean record of tons of tests. I don’t know. What do you think about the haters? I mean, is that something that might fuel you to, to push harder on the last, last lap sort of thing?
Shelby (00:14:37):
Yeah. Maybe. I don’t know. Like I try not to like, spend too much time or energy focusing on the haters, I guess. Yeah. Like, I really try to, like, I I’m not fueled well by like anger and stuff like that. Okay.
Brad (00:14:49):
Because I mean, you also missed a chunk of your career for unjust reasons. Yes. And these things, we need something to drive our performance deep down, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I wanted to be recognized in middle school and high school and I wasn’t good enough to play football or basketball, so I ran my butt off so I could get attention from the girls and my peers and everything else. And so there’s something in there. And this arguably could be a really beneficial thing. ’cause now you gotta, you gotta prove yourself again. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like you could take it and use it to your advantage hopefully. For
Shelby (00:15:27):
Sure. Like, and I’m not gonna say like, it doesn’t, like I, I know it’s out there and like there is a little part of me that just wants to like, you know, cross the line and like throw up the middle finger it, you know? Yeah. It’s in there. Like I definitely like, uh, want to show up and like, oh, I do my best.
Brad (00:15:45):
I will, I will pay to see that moment. That would be so beautiful.
Shelby (00:15:48):
Little apart of me though, like just one time. I just see it’s
Brad (00:15:51):
So funny though, but like in, in all sports and like, we’re gonna talk later about how we get track more attention and all that, this is what the people do in the major sports. They do all kinds of crazy stuff. And we’re too polite and modest. And we have, you know, the post-race interview where you say, all the gals we’re really strong today, and I was fortunate to come out on top ’cause you’re a, you know, honorable competitor instead of like, oh, those, those ladies, they suck. I’m gonna kill them again next week. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. I, I would take the gloves off and that you deserve that middle finger alert more than you remember Sebastian Coe in the 84 Olympics? Have you ever seen that video? I haven’t, no. So he was world record holder, defending Olympic champion in the 1500, but then he got really sick and he missed a whole year of running.
Brad (00:16:30):
And the British system is one or, or two make it in the trials, and the third is selection. I think it still is today. Okay. And so he couldn’t even run the trials or he didn’t make it in the trials. And Britain had the top three guys in the world in the 1500. Steve Cram, Steve Ovett and Richard Elliot were the top three guys in the world. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And they put Coe on the team by vote rather than the trials. So they bumped the third ranked guy in the world who qualified as we think, by a top three in the trials. And the, the press were up in arms. They say he didn’t deserve it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And he went to LA and he won the gold medal with a 03 : 32 Olympic record. And he crossed the line, and we gotta watch this on YouTube, we’ll put the link.
Brad (00:17:13):
But he crosses the line, raises his arms, and then he turns and looks up to the top seats in the coliseum to the, where the press is sitting. And he saluted the British press like that. And it was so great. I mean, it might as well have been a middle finger. Yeah. Because it was such an extreme gesture right after crossing the line at the Olympics, but like those guys deserved it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. He’s a defending Olympic champ. He proclaimed himself fit, which I guess maybe that counts a little in the British system. I’m quite fit at the moment, but I don’t want to run the trials ’cause I got a little sore throat. So anyway, middle finger salute. I can’t wait.
Shelby (00:17:47):
<laugh>. Yeah. We’ll see if that ever happens. Like it’s, I go back and forth too. ’cause it’s just like, I do wanna, you know, conduct myself in a way that I’m proud of and like, you know, is respectful as well. But yeah, there’s that little part of me that’s like, I do kind of wanna just like middle finger to the haters and, yeah. Whether or not that’s ever gonna happen. We’ll, we’ll see. But, uh, yeah.
Brad (00:18:09):
Well the track and field journalism’s a very small, small group and have they, do you feel like you’ve been treated with, uh, open mind and, and fairness in that respect? Or because like a commenter on Instagram is, has, has no credibility whatsoever? Yeah. So I don’t care about them as much as like, you know, in the big picture. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s hard. You, like, whether it’s my case and my story or just anything right now, like, there’s not a lot of news sources that you can just get the undisputed facts. It’s just always a part of the truth. Or like, this is Yeah, that’s true. Like our opinion of the truth. And like, and I have a hard time with that. Like, I’m not a political person and there’s, I would like to be more informed, but like, I don’t know what to trust right. In our like, news system. So it’s like, I think with the media, I have a hard time with it because most of the time they weren’t even reporting the facts. Yeah. Like, they were just like spreading misinformation or rumors or just opinions. You know, and I think there were a few that like, really were trying to like, be unbiased and actually try to report what they felt like was a middle line and like factual. And I do appreciate and respect that, but a lot of the news like was just, you know, athlete blames positive tests on burrito and just like, just like, there, there was just so much more to it than that. And it was just like, oh, let’s just put out the, the best headline that we can to grab attention. Yeah. It’s like
Brad (00:19:46):
Click bait.
Shelby (00:19:46):
Yeah. Click bait stuff. And I, I have, I don’t respect that personally. Like, I think if you’re a reporter, a journalist, like report the facts, don’t throw your opinion in it. People can make their own opinion and like really decide for themselves and you should allow them the opportunity to do that. Yeah.
Brad (00:20:01):
Yeah. But, I guess the, the good thing is you can come back with your own voice and that’s all you have. Yeah. And that, yeah. That should be the best source. Yeah.
Shelby (00:20:14):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.For sure. And that’s why I wanna like, do podcasts and interviews and like, especially now that I, I do feel a little more confident and secure and I’ve kind of better processed everything. I feel like I can talk about it now without getting super triggered and like really having it be emotionally draining. So like, I do want to, you know, talk about it more and, and really like spread that awareness. And, and I’m always down to like, if someone’s just has questions or is like kind of not sure where they fall on it, like I’m totally fine to have a conversation and like answer any questions that I can. But, yeah, I think in the past it, it was just too raw still to like really,
Brad (00:20:57):
Oh, I hudge. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you doing that show in 2022 then. Yeah, of course. Because that’s, that had to be the roughest time. And, I guess my next question would be, so you had this four years and it happened like, you know, in a snap and all of a sudden unfolding is this new life that you’re, you’re forced to live. And in your case, as an elite professional athlete and a really hard training elite professional athlete, which is kind of different than someone who’s not giving their entire physical energy every day mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, you had to recalibrate and kind of turn down all these dials that you had to turn up to make it to the highest level of sport. Yeah. So now you gotta, now you gotta be chill Shelby and drive 6,000 miles in your VW bus. So maybe we could talk through that process and how you, how you brought yourself to the new life that you were, you were presented with.
Shelby (00:21:53):
Yeah. It was definitely not an easy process by any means. Like, I think I had, I always felt like I had a good balance between like, running and like everyday life. Like my normal self and my running self, like I did, I wasn’t all a hundred percent dialed in all year round. I personally, like some people can do that. I knew I couldn’t do that. Like, I just start, I burned myself out. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I tried to do that my first couple years as a pro, and I just would get to the championship part of the season and just like, oh, I just wanna go home. I don’t wanna do this. Like, you know, so I knew that I needed to do something different and so I would really, really dial it in only when I got to altitude camps. And I still kind of do that.
Shelby (00:22:37):
But yeah, I mean, I think it was a rude awakening when, you know, I thought I had this good balance and in reality, like I was a runner. Like, that was my entire identity. I didn’t really know who I was without it. This was my life. I’ve been running since I was five. Like, this is my life’s work. I’ve always wanted to, you know, run professionally, go to the Olympics, break records. This was everything that I’ve been working for my whole life. And all of a sudden it’s just like, like discredited and like, I’m accused of not like, of cheating and like not working hard and just like, what was all that for? Like, I did everything right. I love this sport. I respect this sport. It’s, this is like my life and like my home in a way. And like my community and like, just to like be accused of being a cheater.
Shelby (00:23:36):
And like, it just, it was really hard. I felt really betrayed. ‘Cause I was also kinda like exiled out of my mm-hmm <affirmative>. Only community that I had ever had. And so yeah, that was, that was hard. I really, like, I only took three weeks off of running, um, and did the 6,000 mile road trip which was awesome. I needed to just do something that felt like fun and exciting because nothing did at the, at the time. But I really like had to rebuild myself from nothing. And like, like I said, I got back into running three weeks later just ’cause like, I didn’t know what else to do with myself. Yeah. It was just like I For your, for mental health reasons. Yeah. Just to like, to like cope with what was happening too. And, and I kind of decided like, well, you know, I can’t control what happened, but like, like F’em, you know, like I, they’re not gonna decide when my career ends.
Shelby (00:24:42):
Yeah. I get to decide that. And like, either me or my body is gonna decide when my career end career ends. Not someone that doesn’t even know me Yeah. And knows nothing about my character or integrity or anything like that. So I really just got back into training. I’ve been training throughout the whole four years. But it’s, yeah, like, like you said, kind of having to turn the dials down a little bit. ’cause like I can’t, I didn’t wanna get injured, so it’s like Yeah. Training at like 80% rather than a hundred percent <laugh>. Yeah. You know, and like really trying to focus on making myself into like an aerobic monster that was like really the focus. So I did so much strength stuff the last four years and I’ve been healthy Wow. The entire four years. Mostly like, had a little knee thing last summer, but, um, yeah, I think there was a time a couple years in where, and I’ve kind of said this before, but like my, I was not having fun with running.
Shelby (00:25:40):
I was just dreading getting out the door every day, did not wanna do workouts. And my boyfriend was just like, you don’t have to do this. Like, just stop. Like Yeah. If it’s not fun anymore, you don’t have to. Yeah.
Brad (00:25:51):
There’s no upcoming race.
Shelby (00:25:52):
Yeah. You’re not training for anything. I was just like, I can’t stop because if I stop then I have nothing and I am no one. And I like heard myself say that and I was like, I need to go figure that out. Like, that’s, that’s not the healthiest perspective. Um, it’s, I’m obviously so reliant on this that if, if I stop then I’m like, I have no worth. And that’s is what kept me going for a lot of that time, was just that reliance. But I think once I realized that I really like dove into therapy even more, um, tried to like, okay, what else am I interested in? What other things am I, do I have, like, am I passionate about or find fun? What are my values? And like trying to like figure out some sort of path. I ended up going back to school, um, getting my Master’s. I’m, I’m almost done. I have like 50 more hours of internships, uh, to go. But
Brad (00:26:51):
The subject, I
Shelby (00:26:52):
Mean, it’s in sport, sport and performance psychology, so, Hmm. I’ve always been fascinated the experience
Brad (00:26:58):
In the field that you can ask, do a turn paper. We’re gonna assign our students to turn paper on something interesting in the field.
Shelby (00:27:05):
Yeah. Wow. It’s so interesting.
Brad (00:27:07):
Like, why don’t you like take over and teach the class? If I was teaching that class, I’d be like, I
Shelby (00:27:11):
Don’t know if I’m super qualified.
Brad (00:27:13):
Houlihan, come to the front, please. <laugh>. Okay. We’re gonna do the next three modules here. Yeah. Yeah. No, how can you have a more profound sports and performance psychology experience than what you had? Yeah. I mean, there’s, there’s no, you know. Yeah.
Shelby (00:27:27):
I, and I have a lot of personal experience with it. Like, I feel like one of my biggest strengths is my mind and like the way that I think about things and a lot of the mental tools that I use. And I think it, it’s, it’s funny, it doesn’t always translate ’cause different things work for different people. So like, I also have to be aware of my own biases of like, just because this worked for me doesn’t mean it’s gonna work for this person. I really need to be present with them. Like, ignore my own thoughts or what’s worked for me and like, really find what’s gonna work for this person. Like,
Brad (00:28:04):
Coaching someone. Yeah.
Shelby (00:28:05):
Yeah, exactly. So it’s like, as much as that personal experience is helpful Yeah. It’s also like, don’t rely on that either because it might not work for someone else. Um, but it’s been really interesting. Like I’ve always really been interested in, in the mental aspect of the sport. I think running is like 90% mental. Hmm. Um, and so it’s, it’s once I kind of like made that connection of like, oh, maybe this is something that I would like, uh, I really dove into it, went to school, I’ve loved learning about it and like learning about all the mental skills and these tools that, ’cause there’s this like myth of like, oh, you either, you’re either born with it or you’re not. Right. Like, as far as like that edge uhhuh <affirmative> that like elite athletes have, and it’s not, it’s like not true. Yeah. Like you, these are things that you can learn and Yeah. You can teach other people. And that was really cool to kind of realize. Um, but no, it’s been cool. It’s, I think overall it’s just the last four years have been so much learning and growing uncomfortable. It’s been like very low lows, uh, really hitting rock bottom and like trying to build myself back up and figure out who, who am I without running. And I’ve got to do like a lot of cool things. I have gone on a lot of adventures, spent so much work
Brad (00:29:24):
On this. We saw balloon ride the Instagram in Sedona. That was pretty cool. Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah,
Shelby (00:29:28):
It was cool. I went with my, my brother and his wife and my oldest sister and Wow. Yeah. That was super cool. So yeah, I’ve got to like cross a lot of bucket list items off and travel and spend more time with friends and family and I’ve gotten to do a lot of things that I wouldn’t normally be able to. Right. Um, so I feel like I tried to take advantage of the last four years of the time as best that I could, um, and try to turn a crappy situation into Yeah. Something positive.
Brad (00:29:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of like you got a mini glimpse of retirement is when you retire, you’re gonna have to reframe your, your self-worth and your purpose in life. Yes. Um, and uh, people have a lot of, a lot of athletes have a hard time with that. Yes. Yeah.
Shelby (00:30:14):
It’s a huge problem. And like, and that’s something that I’ve been learning about too in, in my classes as well. Like, this is a normal thing that a lot of athletes go through is like, getting done with something that you really have spent a lot of your life doing. And then like, okay, like now what? Like, who am I without this? And that’s, that’s a really hard transition to go through. Yeah. Um,
Brad (00:30:35):
I mean, it’s hard for anyone to retire and there’s that, you know, the actuarial table suggests that the person re re dies seven years after they retire because they lost their purpose and all that. But like, as an athlete, I think it’s magnified tenfold from retiring from your 37 year accounting career or whatever, because it’s just there, there’s so much exposure and measuring and judging of your worth in society Yeah. And your contracts and your value. And now, um, you know, oh, forget about all that, Shelby, you’re, you know, a warm-hearted person and a good friend that’s not in your brain Yeah. Until it’s until it’s wedged in there. Yes,
Shelby (00:31:12):
Exactly. No, for sure. It’s hard too. ’cause it’s like, yeah. Like you said, there is so much like value that and emphasis that we put on like athletes and then you go out of the sport and like, you’re not this like great athlete anymore. Like maybe you’ll still be that
Brad (00:31:31):
Still one of 04:03 for fun, with not in a race. Yeah. Take you guys on middle finger to the winner. Yeah.
Shelby (00:31:39):
But it’s just, yeah. Like when you’re not, the running community is also like kind of small. Like once you get out into the normal world, it’s like, oh, I’m no one now. Yeah. You’re
Brad (00:31:50):
Not recognized at Whole Foods when you’re checking out,
Shelby (00:31:53):
Which is fine. I don’t mind that at all. <laugh>. But it’s, it is, it’s humbling, I think to like, especially realizing that the sport will continue on without you, and like it is
Brad (00:32:07):
Your record still stands Yeah. Spring even with people wearing springy shoes, there ain’t nobody coming close.
Shelby (00:32:12):
They came really close this last year. I’m, I’m actually shocked that it, it wasn’t broken. Yeah. And
Brad (00:32:19):
Again, though, we gotta say that’s three seconds slower than your engine and you deliver. Depends, who
Shelby (00:32:24):
Knows? Yeah.
Brad (00:32:25):
Like in cycling you measure the watts. Right. So if we could do that in running, we could say that you put out 387 watts for 1500 meters equaling 03:54, and now the, the spikes give you 10 watt advantage. It’s, it’s, it’s a recalibration. Yeah.
Shelby (00:32:40):
Yeah. No, it’s gonna be interesting for sure to,
Brad (00:32:43):
I mean, it would be cool for you to break your own record Yeah. With, with the spikes on or off, but like, who cares? You broke your own record
Shelby (00:32:51):
For sure. And I think it, I I do, part of me loves that it, it wasn’t broken. Yeah. Because even if it does get broken and it’s not by me, like I will, I hope that I’m at least in the race. And I think that was the hardest part, <laugh>. Like, if I lose, that’s fine. Oh my God, what a, yeah. But I, I think it’s hard to sit back and watch as the sport as people run fast break records break my own record and like, I just have to sit and watch it and I can’t do anything. You know? And, and that’s, I think that was hard. But like,
Brad (00:33:19):
Did you watch or what, at what level did you engage? You know,
Shelby (00:33:23):
I’ve watched intermittently over the last four year, the first year or year and a half, maybe two years, I really wasn’t paying too much attention. Um,
Brad (00:33:32):
Did you have, you know, connecting on a friendship level with your racers and Yes. Wishing and luck or whatever?
Shelby (00:33:39):
Exactly. So I would text my friends good luck on their races. I would watch, like when they, for the Olympic trials, even real right after I got banned, I’m going on this road trip and I’m still stopping and watching their like my friend’s races because I like, as much as it sucks that I’m not there, and I’m like grieving that, like, I can still be happy for other people and like, that doesn’t have to take away from either one. So I, that was important to me to support my friends, watch their races and, you know, like I’m crying after they’re making Olympic teams. I’m like so proud of them and like, so cool to see people’s dreams come true, but also like a little bit crying for myself of like, I shouldn’t either. But yeah, I think it’s gotten easier as times has gone on to, to watch, I feel a little more like removed I think, than I did a few years ago.
Shelby (00:34:30):
But it’s funny. Like I was in a good way or like in a good way. Yeah. I th well, in a healthier way. Yeah. Healthier, healthy way. I don’t know if it’s good or bad. Yeah. Um, it was funny, I was watching pre this last year and I, I don’t really remember the race, but like, people were running so fast and normally I would like kind of have that mixture of emotion of like, oh, that’s so cool that they’re running so fast, but like, I should be there. Like that pang of like anger, I suppose. Yeah. And I’ve watched it this year and I didn’t feel anything. It was just like uhhuh. And that was interesting. ’cause I think that kind of showed me how much I’ve grown as a person away from the sport Yeah. Of like, this doesn’t have the same amount of meaning. Yeah. And I think that’s okay. Like,
Brad (00:35:18):
I think it’s the, I mean, speaking of sports and performance psychology, I think that represents the ideal competitive mentality. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know? Yeah. Where like, I don’t think you’re going to give up with 150 meters to go because you’re a more balanced, well adjusted person. You know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna be fighting to the death like you always have. Oh yeah.
Shelby (00:35:37):
It’s, it’s in there.
Brad (00:35:37):
I think if, if one’s lifestyle can kind of get to a different level where your ego’s not, so not you, but like one’s ego is not so fragile when you have a shitty workout or you, whatever happens that doesn’t, you know, you, you have to sit for four years. Yeah. Like, if you can have strength through all that. And I measured it myself, like being happy for en my, my tire’s outta air. And it’s like, I go to the finish line and I clap and I try to get 97%, smiles and, and feeling the energy from someone that I’ve trained with and worked hard and deserve it. But yeah. You’re, you’re not kidding anybody if it’s a hundred percent like Yeah.
Brad (00:36:23):
You’re just happy for the our three Americans that are gonna represent in Paris. Well, um, you should have been one of those and Yeah. That, that part needs to stay there. Yeah. But I think we’ve been socialized to think that like the ultimate examples of competitive mentality are people like Kobe and Michael Jordan whileI, from my references and what the storytelling is, they weren’t happy, balanced, healthy, well adjusted people. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. They were just savage, you know, competitors. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And they won. Could they have in a team sport, could Kobe have won more titles when he was more friendly in the locker room and more supportive of different personalities? Yeah. He could have, ’cause he drove Shaq away. ’cause Shaq made movies in the summer. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And Kobe thought he, he wasn’t serious enough ’cause it wasn’t like him. Yeah. And you saying from your studies, like, it doesn’t work for everybody. Yeah.
Shelby (00:37:14):
Yeah. But different things work for people,
Brad (00:37:16):
You know? I think your comebacks gonna be interesting because you’re saying it’s all about the journey, and now you’re like, you’re gonna prove it because you’re coming back with the same enthusiasm and all that, but also that, that more dimension.
Shelby (00:37:32):
Yeah. Yeah. I do think, like, to what you’re saying, like, I do feel like a more well balanced, like human. Like, I, I spent so much time watering Shelby as a runner and just really ignoring the other parts of my life and Yeah.
Brad (00:37:47):
Watering.
Shelby (00:37:48):
Yeah. Like in a way, you know? So I think the last four years I’ve really like, I guess to continue with the analogy, I like watered these other areas. And so like, I just feel like more of a full, like, whole person. And I’m really curious, like to see what that’s gonna translate to on the track. Like, is it gonna be better? Is it gonna be worse? Like, I don’t know. I hope that it’s better. I hope that it’s, it’s definitely healthier <laugh>. Yeah. You know, so it’ll be interesting to see what that translates to in terms of performance.
Brad (00:38:20):
Well let me ask you this then. It seems to me, at least in my career as a triathlete, which is, you know, more extreme endurance than middle distance, like the biggest risk factor or the best way to screw things up was over training and or, and yours would be maybe over training an injury. Right? And so how does an athlete, especially an elite athlete who’s got all the knowledge and the tools and the support, how do you get overtrained or injured? Is it these ego demands and fragile stubborn things coming up, stubbornness and all that? Yes. Like, where does that come from when you know deep inside your head that you should take three easy days instead of one? Um, maybe those things will kind of rise to the surface where you’re even more sophisticated as a well-balanced human knowing that your energy’s off or your mentality’s off and so forth.
Shelby (00:39:09):
For sure. Like actually listening to my body better. Like,
Brad (00:39:13):
Do you think you have room to grow there?
Shelby (00:39:16):
Think from, I think I have a lot. So,
Brad (00:39:18):
But you’re the American record holder, so I mean, how could <laugh>? But by definition you’ve done it better than anyone ever has.
Shelby (00:39:25):
I have, and I’ve stayed healthy, luckily, through my career. But I will say, going back to that unhealthy reliance, like my teammates would tell me how proud they were of me when I would take a day off. Oh. Like I was, oh,
Brad (00:39:42):
It’s on a team. I
Shelby (00:39:44):
I will, I never took days off. I had to be on my deathbed if I missed a workout. Like I have, I have had walking pneumonia going through this like 10-mile workout, coughing up along in between reps. Like I, it was not great. And I wouldn’t ever suggest anyone doing that. But that’s just like that unhealthy reliance and like, I needed to, like, there’s no way in hell I was gonna ever miss a workout. I literally like had to be dying <laugh> in order to miss it. And it’s just, yeah, I don’t think, you know, I it’s one of those things where it’s like, I can give you advice and oh yeah, you should definitely take the day off. Like, but I can’t take my own and now, and even when I would take a day off, I would spend the entire day thinking like, oh, well I could still get out for a run.
Shelby (00:40:32):
Like, I maybe in just like even a four mile run, you know, like I couldn’t take a day off, and so now I take days off and I’m like, hell yeah. I’m taking, I have a day off today. I’m gonna do nothing. That’s gonna be great. So that perspective has definitely changed a lot. I think I listened to my body a lot, a lot better than I did before. I’m not scared to, not that I was scared, I just like, I didn’t like missing stuff. Like, I didn’t like missing work workouts or things like that.
Brad (00:41:01):
Well, I mean, you don’t like missing it if you think it’s gonna harm your, your prospects and your development mm-hmm <affirmative>. But now, um, maybe you’ll be convinced that your day off is what’s gonna get you another half second improvement.
Shelby (00:41:15):
Exactly. I definitely have a different perspective now in that and like, yeah. Just even kind of dialing it back the last four years to like training it like an 80%, I was, I was still super fit. Yeah. So it’s like, okay, I don’t have to, like, maybe there’s a better balance ’cause I would get to these world championships or Olympics or like just the championship part of the season, kind of riding a line of like, I might break in half at any moment. Yeah. Um, so like if I’m, if I’m winding up at let’s say 80% health, yeah. That’s like 20% that I’m giving away. So what if we just cut back, I’m a hundred percent healthy. What is that gonna look like? Yeah. So I think just like looking at it that way has been helpful as well.
Brad (00:41:59):
And this is interesting because if you reach the very highest level, you obviously weren’t screwing things up, but, um, you know, if your talent level is such that you were, you sacrificed whatever, one or two or 3% ’cause you did too many workouts, it seems like you’re, as you describe it, a a walking pneumonia 10-mile workout is, is gonna be literally from like exercise physiology. You’re setting yourself back. Oh, for sure. You can’t argue that. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>. but you still were able to, you somehow I
Shelby (00:42:34):
Still did it. I was just, I was stubborn. I was like, I’m not gonna miss a workout. Like, I’m fine. Like I’m fine <laugh>. Yeah. Not that I was fine, but like, yeah, I think I definitely have the mentality of like, I’m just gonna see if I can, like, I’m just gonna start the workout, see how it goes. If I like, feel horrible, then I’ll stop. But like, I’m also stubborn and like I know that I’m not gonna stop. Yeah. Unless it’s like really, really bad.
Brad (00:42:55):
Well, it’s like injuries the same thing. Like, I’m gonna go warm up and see how it feels. Yeah. Feels fine. Yeah. Yeah. When I was in for my, I had bone spur in the Achilles tendon. I had to get the laser 10 x procedure to scrape the bone spur off. I stayed awake and watched it on TV. It was really fun. Okay. But I was telling the doctor, like, doc, um, yeah, I, I limp every single morning down the hall to the bathroom. But like, I warmed up and it felt fine at every workout. And I even can show my book here, it says like, felt fine after, uh, four times 204 times 100. So why am I in here in the surgery room? And she said epic quote Doctor Katie Galato, she said, the tendons fool you when they become inflamed. And I go, oh. So like, I should determine my readiness to train and my state of injury resilience, the first 10 steps down the hall, not after seven minute warmup and stretches and Benny bands.
Shelby (00:43:48):
Yeah. I mean that’s interesting.
Brad (00:43:52):
But you haven’t even been injured, so you’re like,
Shelby (00:43:54):
I’ve been very lucky
Brad (00:43:54):
No stress fractures in your, in your life.
Shelby (00:44:03):
I’ve had some stress reactions Yeah. Where it didn’t quite get that bad and I’ve caught them stopped. I think the longest thing that I had, I had a stress reaction in my navicular, 2019. in your foot. In the middle
Brad (00:44:17):
Of the ear, huh? Oh yeah. The navicular your foot.
Shelby (00:44:20):
Yeah. Um, and I had to take two weeks off cross train, and then I spent like probably eight to 10 weeks just slowly building back my Wow. And that’s really the longest that I’ve had to like, take off.
Brad (00:44:36):
So you did, you’ve had, you have had some slaps in the face in your career? Oh, just checking. Just checking. Yeah. <laugh> and like, isn’t everything so programmed and orchestrated where the coach is also involved in this decision making? I mean, isn’t someone going to send you home if you show up coughing up phlegm at the track?
Shelby (00:44:56):
No.
Brad (00:44:57):
<laugh>, you’re gonna overrule <laugh>.
Shelby (00:44:59):
I,
Brad (00:45:00):
I mean, isn’t that what the team environment and the,
Shelby (00:45:02):
I definitely should not have been around the team. ’cause obviously I’m sick. Right? Like, that wasn’t like the smartest decision.
Brad (00:45:09):
They’re gonna try to drop you.
Shelby (00:45:10):
Yeah. And I think Jerry, my coach, like at that time, he was, he’s funny. Like he is very hands off. Like he doesn’t really tell you what to do. Like he, like you are treated as a professional. Like you need to know your stuff, know your body. Yeah. Um, he will give you workouts and that’s pretty much it. So I’m deciding my weekly mileage, um, what I need to do every day. We’re not meeting for practice every day. Like
Brad (00:45:37):
Oh, so he, he’s giving you the workouts, which is the organized workout. Yeah. And then you’re figuring out on Wednesday what to do. Yeah. Because Thursday’s the workout or whatever.
Shelby (00:45:45):
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So it’s like very much like you own your own stuff which I loved. ’cause I like that independence. So it’s, I think, and he also has that like edge to him where it’s like, if you get out too fast, it’s like, Hey, slow down. But like he secretly loves it, you know, like that type of thing. So he, he’ll never tell you, Hey, I you need to stop, you need to not do that. Wow. It’s up to you as a professional to know your body and like make that decision. And I never wanted to, and so he never forced it. Like, he’ll definitely like provide his opinion of like, I don’t know if you should do that. Yeah. But he’s
Brad (00:46:29):
Never, and you’ll weigh that heavily, I assume. Yeah.
Shelby (00:46:32):
But I, I’ll, I do what I,
Brad (00:46:34):
Thanks for your input <laugh>. That’s not, that’s not the template. It doesn’t seem like, I mean, there’s a lot of other examples where it’s different, right? Yeah. Even amongst the elites, like, you know, Mike Scannell, Arizona guy and Grant Fisher’s coach?
Shelby (00:46:49):
Okay. Yeah. You know, him kind of, I don’t, I don’t know him super well. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad (00:46:52):
But like he, he describes how they, they sat down in December and wrote the workout plan up to Paris, 5,000 meters mm-hmm <affirmative>. Every day. And I’m like, are you kidding? I couldn’t do that. I’m like, I have to go with the flow and be more intuitive with my decisions. Yeah. Because those things, I think matter tremendous amount. But he, like, it was, it was supposedly so well thought out that the grant was gonna click in and and nail every workout, which you could probably too, because if, as you described that incredible resilience, but you’re sort of in a different model where you’re not locked in from every workout until worlds.
Shelby (00:47:29):
No.and I, yeah, like I said earlier, like I mentally can’t like be locked in all year. Like, I burn myself out by doing that. So like, I need to be a little more lax, some of the year than, than other people. Um,
Brad (00:47:42):
And when you say lax, I’m, you’re talking about maybe staying up a little extra hour, but also like,
Shelby (00:47:48):
Yeah, I’ll go dancing on the weekends with my friends. Like maybe I’ll have some drinks or like, you know, like not be as like strict on my diet and stuff like that. Like maybe I’ll order a Domino’s pizza. Like I just, you know, I need to like have a little bit of balance of like somewhat of a normal person and not this like highly athlete all year round. ’cause for me, that’s not sustainable. Yeah. I just, I, like I said, I burn myself out. Yeah. Some people can do that. Like maybe, you know, like obviously that Grant’s running so well and like that works for him. Um, I don’t like being micromanaged, so I need my independence, so I need to be able to listen to my body now, especially so that I have a better idea of listening to my body <laugh>, or I’m doing it better, but Yeah. Yeah.Yeah, I definitely just gimme the workouts. I’ll figure out what I need to do in between that, um, that that’s worked for me and I’ve really enjoyed it.
Brad (00:48:46):
But the systematic planning of the workouts and the building and the phases, those workouts are pretty carefully considered by the coach. And I assume you’re have some input too, or you just look at the, the email that comes through and it says,
Shelby (00:49:01):
I always joke like I’m one of, I’m a Oh yeah. Professional athlete that knows nothing about running. Oh yeah.
Brad (00:49:09):
Yeah. We use that as the poll quote in the last episode when Shelby Houlihan says, I don’t know that much about running, so Yeah. I just do the workout.
Shelby (00:49:17):
Exactly.That was the same thing. I trusted Jerry. Like obviously he knows what he is doing. He, a lot of people that he’s coached have run fast and they’ve been one of the, like some of the best athletes. So I was like,
Brad (00:49:27):
Schumacher is his name Jerry Schumacher. Yeah, Jerry Chuma. He was leading the, the Nike Bauer Men team that you were on. Exactly. Is it still going or is he?
Shelby (00:49:34):
Yes. They’re in Eugene now. So it, it looks so much different Yeah. When I was a part of it. Um, but yeah, like I just trusted, you know, what you’re doing for the workouts, just tell me what I need to do. I’ll do it as best I can, if not better. Yeah. And so that was always like, kind of the way that
Brad (00:49:54):
We worked the February workout was not as difficult as the peak workout for June or whatever.
Shelby (00:50:00):
Exactly. He is definitely like, so he expected that to Yeah. Yeah. I never really asked questions. I don’t, and I think that’s been hard training alone with, and like nothing to train for because I don’t really, I have a better idea of running and training and all that stuff now that I’ve had to do it alone. But I still don’t know exactly what these workouts mean and I don’t know what shape I’m in and like yeah. It’s hard to build confidence off of that. Um,
Brad (00:50:30):
I don’t know, that might be an advantage ’cause you know, if you think you know everything, you’ve become close-minded and rigid and, um, I think a lot of athletes, like whenever you see someone say, I wanna regain the form I had and of 2019. Wait, what? No, you can’t go backwards ever. So it’s like you want to have a new and and improved version. Yeah. Which that stuff may or may not work.
Shelby (00:50:53):
Yeah. I, I’ve always liked being a little more naive to it. Yeah. Because I feel like that has allowed me to really like, not limit myself as far as like, what I think I’m capable of. I don’t care if no one’s run that time. Like, and like I’m, you know, like, I think this is what I can do based off of the training. Yeah. Or like, just how I feel. Um, it’s, I think it’s just been more freeing that I don’t know as much. ’cause I think what I tend to see people that are super informed about training and like really looking at all the data. Like they overthink everything. Yes. You know, and I agree. It is really debilitating. Yeah. And so I’ve always really gone on the other side of that, of like, I prefer to be naive about this. I’m gonna trust blind. Like just really trust my coach that he is giving me the right workouts. And that’s worked for me. Yeah. Like, I, I think that’s been really, like I said, very freeing. And it hasn’t, I think being naive, I haven’t set any limits on what I think I can do. I just kind of like go with the flow and see how I feel. See how these paces feel and what shape I think I’m in and that’s worked
Brad (00:52:04):
You never know until you put on those super spikes and getting a race with people cheering. It’s fascinating to think what the difference is between a solo time trial versus, you know, the pressure of a finer or the expectation and all the stuff, the energy that goes into the body. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean, it, I think it’s gotta be massive. Yeah. You, you might be the only person to really prove this as a primetime runner doing stuff on your own. I mean, I don’t think, um, people are not out there doing time trials for fun.
Shelby (00:52:31):
No. Yeah. They’re, they’re not fun. I don’t recommend them. Uh, yeah. The time trials have been hard. Um,
Brad (00:52:39):
What a joy. What will it be when there have people in the stands to look up and
Shelby (00:52:42):
I know Yeah.
Brad (00:52:43):
It’s just, and, and runners on the track with you, I mean mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know,
Shelby (00:52:46):
It, it’s been hard to like get excited. Like Yeah. It’s just like, okay, yeah, I’m gonna do a time trial and I’m like trying to hype myself up, but I don’t feel hyped up. Like it just like, okay, I’m gonna go out there by myself. Or maybe like my sister’s gonna hold a stopwatch or something and like go still. Yeah. No one’s like, maybe we’ll get my parents out there to like cheer a little bit. That’s cold. Yeah. You know, like, so it’s like, it’s, it’s hard to get excited. You don’t have, I feel like even in races, like the first, I don’t know, definitely the first 200, if not the first 400 is just like adrenaline. Yeah. You don’t get that at a time trial. There’s no adrenaline.
Brad (00:53:22):
You get a free 400 basically. Yeah.
Shelby (00:53:25):
So it’s just, it makes it a lot harder. Um, but I think I was still able to run pretty fast times doing it. It’s just, I was also burning myself out. Like, I think the second or third year I didn’t do really any time trials. ’cause I was like, I just don’t wanna do those. Those do not sound exciting.
Brad (00:53:45):
Um, I think that’s smart because we’re all, like, we talked about the odometer theory last time. Um, you’re getting a break. It’s not chosen, but it’s still a break. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And yeah. I mean, there’s something to be said for just becoming an aerobic machine and harnessing the competitive intensity. And then I’m also curious, like, I feel like the travel is a huge stress factor for athletes that takes away from their ultimate career progression and competitive potential. But of course, it’s part of it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I remember during Covid, like, Joshua Cheptegei shattered those world records at five and 10,000 and it’s maybe because he wasn’t on the Diamond League circuit, waking up in a different time zone or hotel. I don’t know. Yeah. So your travel schedule probably diminished greatly and kind. Well, besides the van and, and the well fun travel, it was the top speed of the van.
Shelby (00:54:35):
55 I
Brad (00:54:37):
Think. Okay. So you did a 6,000 mile road trip. But it’s really like a 7,800 mile road trip. ’cause the car only went 55. Like Yeah. Yes. When are we gonna get to Iowa <laugh>? Geez. Um,
Shelby (00:54:47):
We weren’t getting anywhere fast.
Brad (00:54:48):
Just like settling all those stress factors in your life that seems to me like this will be sort of a competitive advantage for you that’s equal or better than, you know, you’re, you’re not at your chronological age peak yet anyway. But like, I don’t feel like losing those years is the same because you were able to not pound the body so bad.
Shelby (00:55:09):
Yeah. And that’s the perspective that I’m trying to have about it too, is like, okay, yeah, I’m four years older, but like, I didn’t spend the last four years competing at this high level on the borderline of getting injured. I was the healthiest I’ve been in and yeah. Like these last four years have been the healthiest been I’ve been in my career. And so like yeah. Just like kind of dialing it back, still getting the training in, um, but taking the intensity down a little bit so I’m not riding that like sharpness line. Because I don’t need to be sharp ’cause I’m not racing. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully that saved my body a bit and Oh,
Brad (00:55:46):
Of course it
Shelby (00:55:46):
Did. Yeah. So, we’ll, I mean, I guess we’ll see, but it’s perfect
Brad (00:55:49):
<laugh>. I mean, if it was, you know, life or death and there’s a gun to your head and there’s a $10 million bonus for how you’re gonna perform in 2025, back in 2021, this, this might be somewhat near the right path rather than, oh, I’m just gonna race a bunch of years and get faster. Yeah. People think that’s gonna happen, but like, I don’t know what Donovan Brazier been out almost as long as you, it’s, you know, like, geez mm-hmm <affirmative>. Right? Yeah. He’s missed like one, two or three years now from injury. Right. Is he coming back? Do you know him? Like I it’s so heartbreaking. At the same
Shelby (00:56:30):
I know. Yeah. A different, I don’t know him like super well. Like I,
Brad (00:56:34):
He was like world, did he win the worlds or he won silver? He won the worlds in 800. He won 01:43, which was a great time before the super spikes came in. 01:41 is now a good time. But like then he kept getting injured. Yeah. I saw him at qualifying and, you know, running a shadow as former self and then another dip and another Abby Steiner, it looks like she’s on the same path. She keeps, she had the same exact surgery as I had and I wrote her an Instagram. She didn’t answer. Shelby did. Thank you. That’s why I’m here. But like, I’m like, dude, this took me a year to rehab. Yeah. I’m an old man. Granted, but like, she’s coming back for the trials, uh, three months after the surgery. I’m like, no, no, no, no. They cut into your achilles tendon. What’s going on here? And then she had the surgery again or something. It’s terrible news. Yeah,
Shelby (00:57:18):
Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s like the hard part of the, about the sport, right? It’s like,
Brad (00:57:22):
Oh, the pressure and
Shelby (00:57:23):
The pressure. Yeah. Like, you, like try to get back soon and like just, it, it’s, I have this belief about everything. Like the best things just take time and like, if you’re gonna, you know, get surgery or whatever, like it’s, if you’re, if you rush it, you’re gonna pay for it later, you know? And, and like I think patience is the best thing. Even if it, even if you’re missing out on, on something at that moment. It, it’s hard though ’cause you’re so singularly focused on like one thing and trying to get ready for it. But, well,
Brad (00:57:53):
You also have contracts and making a living involved as a professional. And so there’s some Yeah, there’s, there’s some obligation, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You can’t just say, I don’t, I didn’t feel like going this year to pre Yeah. <laugh>. And so how does that weigh in? Like, um, the sponsor wants you to do really well, but we know from like Alison Felix expose and all this BS behind the scenes where they’re not really looking out for the long-term wellbeing of the athlete. I was shocked to learn that you lost your sponsors during your suspension. Maybe’s talk about that. Like, shouldn’t the sponsors stick with you and say, okay, well, we’re in this for the long haul too, and we wanna support you and make sure you get the resources you need while you’re not able to compete to get better and better. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But they just kicked you to the curb, sort of.
Shelby (00:58:39):
Yeah. Yeah. And that was, I think, like, honestly that’s, that was really difficult, right? Like I
Brad (00:58:45):
Did they pay your legal defense fees?
Shelby (00:58:47):
Nope. I paid everything out of pocket. Yeah.
Brad (00:58:49):
Does it seem like they should? I mean,
Shelby (00:58:52):
I don’t know. Like, I’m not sure. I guess I’ve never like, thought about whether they should or shouldn’t. Um, but I
Brad (00:58:59):
Mean, uh,
Shelby (00:58:59):
It would be nice that because it was expensive, the,
Brad (00:59:02):
The New England Patriots paid for, you know, Tom Brady’s, uh, whatever, whatever surgery and whatever he needed. And I mean, come on. Yeah,
Shelby (00:59:09):
I think I have, that’s where I have a hard time with it. What if, you know, when it’s not consistent? Yeah. When it’s like, oh, well if I’m just not a big enough athlete for you, you kind of pick and choose what you’d do. Um, and that’s, and and at this other, on the other hand, hand, it’s like, that is business though, right? Like, if I’m not creating the same revenue, like, I guess like, should I be treated the same? I don’t know. I don’t have this, I get it. I don’t respect it. Yeah. You know, so it’s like, it is a business, but I do think like you should value people and relationships.
Brad (00:59:48):
If I was your, if I was your sponsor, I would say, okay, well you’re going around and you’re gonna do 400 middle school assemblies or high school track team gatherings and, and tell your story and represent with all the latest clothes. Here, let me send you another jacket. ’cause you’re going to the cold weather. I mean, it’s so, it’s so obvious that would be a huge win rather than the way they do the model now, which is like, um, you know, cutthroat commodity athletes. Yeah,
Shelby (01:00:13):
It is, it is pretty cutthroat. And like, and I think that’s, yeah, it’s, it’s hard. It’s, it’s a business at the end of the day and it’s hard not to take things personally, but it’s, yeah. And
Brad (01:00:26):
They’re, they’re basically saying, take this shit personally. Yeah. We’re cutting you. Yeah. You know,
Shelby (01:00:30):
For sure. And it’s, it’s hard. It’s hard not to. Right. And especially when, and I don’t wanna like bash anyone. Like, I really enjoyed running for Nike my career and they treated me well. I think it’s hard when I’m, when that, you know, when I got banned, that was difficult. ’cause a lot of the sports marketing people, which I respect and like appreciate, they’re like, Hey, we believe you. We, we support you. But then the brand as a whole, you know, like obviously cut out and like, that’s hard. And that’s not necessarily in, from my knowledge coming from those people. It’s coming from
Shelby (01:01:13):
World Department Yeah. Corporate, like stuff like that. Legal department. Yeah. And so, again, it comes back to like, this is a business. I get it. I don’t respect it. Yeah. But it’s, yeah. And it’s hard. And there’s a lot of good people in Nike. Like Paul Moser is a guy at Nike that he was someone that checked in with me every few months, the last four years. And I have so much like, respect and appreciation for him. So it’s like, not everyone there is like bad or anything like that. And I don’t try, I’m not trying to like, hold this huge grudge, but I do wish, you know, it would’ve, things would’ve, would’ve been handled differently. Obviously, but I also get the other side of that too.
Brad (01:01:53):
Yeah. All athletic sponsorships seem to operate the same way in all companies. You know, it’s like, what can we, what can we squeeze out of you? And yeah, it’s, it’s free market dynamic. But it seems like a company would be a, a bigger winner doing it differently. But no one’s, no one stepped up, I guess. Yeah.
Shelby (01:02:11):
Yeah.
Brad (01:02:11):
Yeah. So, Paul checked in with you frequently and then as far as like your entire community was there now, like a filtration that occurred where you find out who your true friends were and you saw some popping off from we definitely don’t have to to trash talk, but like, the most shocked I was was when like, other elite athletes popped off a little bit about your case. And I’m like, don’t you understand that you could be next. We’re talking about what’s five nanograms, like five billionths of a gram?
Shelby (01:02:44):
I believe so. Something like that. Yeah. It’s like very, very, so it’s like, you
Brad (01:02:47):
Don’t, you, you, no one, everyone knows testing’s not perfect and athletes fall victim to this imperfect system, but then popping off as someone who, who should understand more than anyone else how fragile and, and crazy this whole thing is.
Shelby (01:03:02):
Yeah.
Brad (01:03:03):
Probably, probably had some feelings there going out.
Shelby (01:03:05):
Well, it’s funny ’cause like, I really like took a step back from social media. I don’t know who supports me and who doesn’t as far as like other athletes go. Like, I’m pretty blind to it, which I, again, like, I kind of prefer to be naive in that. So like, I don’t want to, I personally don’t wanna treat anyone differently based on how I think they feel about me. So Yeah. My solution is to not know <laugh>.
Brad (01:03:27):
I think, um, you know, on behalf of all the haters, it’s like the people who are strongly against doping in sport. Yeah. Like to speak out and that’s great. And
Shelby (01:03:37):
That’s fair.
Brad (01:03:38):
I, but then like you got thrown into the mix with the anti-doping cinnamon, which is great, but like you’re probably the most anti-doping athlete of all. Right. And who’s more anti-doping than you? I especially after all this nonsense mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Shelby (01:03:55):
No, for sure. Yeah. I think that’s the hard part too, is like, I, I support anti-doping. I I the sentiment of it, I want the sport to be clean. I, you know, screw people that decide to cheat other people out of success.
Brad (01:04:09):
That’s a middle finger. We got two on the show
Shelby (01:04:11):
<laugh>. Um, but like, I think the hard part is, I don’t know that people are informed. I surely wasn’t before this. How it act, like what this process actually looks like when you go through it. And there’s all this, like even taking some of the, you know, clean sport courses or whatever that we’re supposed to take to have U-S-A-T-F memberships. They say like, oh, well if you decide to cheat, this is all the repercussions of this. Is it traffic school type of Yeah. It’s like, oh, you could lose your reputation, this amount of money and like let down your family and friends and all this stuff. And I’m, and now that I’m reading that, I’m like, you guys aren’t being honest because this isn’t, if you decide to cheat, this is, if you get a positive test that this is a possibility that you lose all things. That’s the glossed over,
Shelby (01:05:07):
You could decide not to cheat. Yeah. As in my case. Yeah. And this could still happen to you if you fall victim to a positive test, whether that be contamination if you can’t figure out what happened and prove that beyond a doubt. These are all the things that could happen to you. And I don’t think athletes know that. I certainly did not know that. I felt like I trusted the process. Right. I thought that they’re, you know, they’re gonna do their due diligence. There’s no way I’m gonna get banned for something that I did not do. Right. Did not choose to do. Yeah.
Shelby (01:05:41):
And then I did. Yeah. So it’s like, I, I think people think that this is a very, like checks and balance, like justice, like, like you’re kind of starting the show of like, you think you’re innocent until proven guilty. No, you are guilty unless you can prove that you’re innocent. And it’s hard to prove that you’re innocent if you don’t know what happened. You Yeah. How can you provide answers when you don’t have the answers? It’s hard. And you get notified. You have seven days to tell them what happened. And it’s like, how, what? Like, I, I don’t know what happened.
Brad (01:06:13):
I didn’t know that you have, you have a time clock on, you have a time clock mounting your case. Exactly. Like Judge Judy or something. Hurry up. I case it’s hard.
Shelby (01:06:20):
I don’t think people really are aware of what this process looks like if you get caught up in it, if you get contamination or whatever it is. And I think that’s where I’m having a hard time with these anti-doping agencies where I agree with the mission, but you’re, the testing’s also getting a lot more sensitive. There are getting contamination like positives. You’re getting more positives that maybe aren’t, like they’re false positives. Mm-hmm. But you’re not accounting for that. And it’s still, the a hundred percent burden is still on the athlete. And you’re acting like, this is my science, this is truth. That’s not the case. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know,
Brad (01:07:05):
Which is not disputed either. It’s not your opinion. Yeah. It’s known that it’s not true. Yeah, yeah.
Shelby (01:07:09):
Yeah.
Brad (01:07:10):
They’re making inferences. I don’t know the exact, I just read your friend, messes me on Instagram about how, nandrolone could be excreted under stress mm-hmm. And all these things, you know who I’m talking about Jordan? Yeah. Yeah. Jordan. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, uh, Jordan. Did you tell Shelby this at the time of her, uh, hearing? It’s like, I found this stuff later. Yeah. And it’s like, if this is out there mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, it’s so imperfect of a test that it seems like if you do test positive, that’s when you desperately need Wadis help Yes. Help you work through this problem. Yeah. Because you’re part of the anti-doping movement. Yeah. And instead they said like, you’re really at you, you got seven days. Yeah.
Shelby (01:07:50):
It’s up to you and your legal team to figure out what happened and give us an answer. And then, yeah. It’s, it’s not as straightforward as we want it to be. I don’t think the system as it is, is how it should be. It’s not at all what I thought it was. So, and I Yeah.
Brad (01:08:08):
I wonder why not. Yeah. Because of course everyone’s against do, including the people who work for usada, but like, why is it so Yeah. But, um, backward?
Shelby (01:08:18):
Yeah. And we shouldn’t, like, we should not be jeopardizing careers of athletes that didn’t choose to cheat, just to like try to catch the people that are. Yeah. You know, like there’s, yeah. There should be more of a checks and balance system because there is no repercussions for these organizations that get it wrong. Like the athlete suffers. If you get, if these, if these organizations get it wrong and they ban someone that didn’t choose to cheat Yeah. That does. Nothing happens to them.
Brad (01:08:48):
The whole system is it crumbles there.
Shelby (01:08:51):
Yeah. No, it, and it is hard ’cause I want to be able to trust this system. Yeah. And I wanna be able to trust that, you know, they’re doing the right things and doing it the right way. And like now every time I see someone that had a positive test or someone get banned, I’m just like, is that the case? Like Yeah. Right now, like Yeah. You know, like, I don’t trust anything and that’s hard. I don’t wanna be in that position either.
Brad (01:09:14):
Yeah. Well, I, I’m like, I’m like super gullible and I strongly believed that Lance Armstrong was clean because I know him very well and how hard he trains and how much more talented he is than all the other riders. But of course, I didn’t know that all 200 athletes were doping. And that’s when I changed my mind. But it, like, it made, it stood to reason that I’m like, no, no, this guy is the best guy. That’s why he’s winning. It’s not ’cause he is cheating. And, we talked about this a little bit too. Like the word cheating I would put into play when you’re getting unfair advantage. But if like the entire sport is dirty, then the sport is cheating the public viewer trying to pass it off as a clean sport. Yeah. No. All these guys are doped off their asses and they’re gonna climb the mountain really fast.
Brad (01:09:56):
Do you wanna watch? Yeah, sure. Do you wanna go to the baseball game and watch Barry Bonds? Yeah, sure. I don’t care. You know, but like, oh, now we have this clean sport and then No, it almost seems like we need a, like a, you know, an all powerful decider to do this on a case by case subjective basis. And if some glitch comes into play like yours, let’s suspend you for a month. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Oh, it wasn’t your fault and you got bad luck. But guess what, watch out where you, where you shop for your food or whatever. Yeah. Go, go home now and, and lemme give you a slap on the wrist. That’s what you deserve. Right? Yeah. Even though it was unlucky. No, let’s just do it. Yeah. Sha-Carri, oh, she got high. ’cause she was struggling from a personal health crisis, which happens to be legal in most states.
Brad (01:10:41):
Okay. You got a month suspension that kinda stuck ’cause she missed the Olympics. But like, it seems like, why don’t we match the penalty mm-hmm <affirmative>. And if you miss a whereabouts, you get fined, uh, $500. You know, if you miss three, then you’re in big trouble. But like, let’s, let’s make it sensible instead of just this huge thing. But I think if we had the third person at the chair representing WADA they’d be like, no, you don’t understand. We have to come down with an iron hand as a deterrent. No, you don’t. The deterrents massive now. Yeah. You know, Mo Katir just lost a million dollars or $2 million or whatever he lost. That’s enough deterrent not to not be an idiot. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Or get your outta the sport ’cause you’re cheating. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Not to pick on Mo Katir but he missed three whereabouts violations, which is hard to understand how it’s, you know, this is life and death matter of your career, but, and you have to tell, we should explain like what’s the whereabouts thing all about.
Shelby (01:11:34):
Yeah. It’s just like you have to, you provide an hour window where, hey, I will be at this place for an hour every single day.
Brad (01:11:43):
Every single day. Every single day You’re texting in or, or logging in.
Shelby (01:11:46):
Yeah. You can, you can like plan it ahead. Like it doesn’t you don’t have to look, oh, you’re gonna be here, you’re gonna be here for a week. Yeah. This is where I’m gonna be, this is when I’m traveling, all this stuff. You just have to kind of provide a whereabout of like where you will be every single day so that they can find you to test you. Um, so yeah. And you get three strikes if you, if you can miss Yeah. On the third time that you like just miss a test, then that results in a violation.
Brad (01:12:15):
Yeah. Oh, so they actually show up and, and you missed them. Yeah. Because that’s a, that’s a violation. Yes. So it happens three times. Yeah.
Shelby (01:12:23):
So you’ve told them, you’re, you told them that this is where I’m gonna be, but then you’re not there. Yeah. Then you like, obviously miss the test. Yeah. Um, yeah. So that you can’t do that three times.
Brad (01:12:35):
So here we are now you’re free to race. And we talked about like that shift in mindset and that adopting a healthier perspective where you’re not living and dying by your running and it’s your, it’s your, your self-esteem and your self-worth. Um, now you’re gonna be sort of lured into the same world that you existed in and they had such a wonderful payoff for you since five years old. Do you think about that and do you have like a, a strategy, a plan? Like, Hey, what if you get your butt kicked in the first race ’cause you’re not sharp, and then you go home and, um, deal with certain things.
Shelby (01:13:14):
Yeah. It’s interesting because to say the least,
Brad (01:13:18):
It’s super interesting because few people have ever experienced it. Yeah. It’s
Shelby (01:13:21):
Kind of like most people reach
Brad (01:13:23):
Care. Yeah.
Shelby (01:13:24):
You know, and I think it’s, it’s hard because I like being a part of Bowerman before all of this. And like, I loved it. I loved running, I loved my team, I loved the coach. Like, it’s like I had so much fun. Running was so fun. I loved every single part of it. I loved the process. And after everything that’s happened, I know that it might not look like it did before. Like I’m coming back, but it’s different. And I’m hoping that it’s still fun and that I love every single part of it. I don’t know if that’s gonna happen. So it’s like, in some ways I’ve found myself like again, like even now, like grieving what was mm-hmm <affirmative>. And having to like really let that go and like, come into this with a new mindset of like, it’s, this is not gonna look like it did before.
Shelby (01:14:25):
Yeah. And I need to be okay with that. Hopefully, like even if it looks different, it’s still gonna like, still be fun and, and I’m gonna love it, but I don’t, I don’t know. It’s, it’s interesting. And, you know, it’s all a process. So Yeah. I might, my first race back, I might get my butt kicked and like, who knows? And, and that’s fine. Um, I think just getting back out there and really like getting back into racing, getting the rest off, um, it’s like every, like, it’s always a process, you know? So it was like, it if I lose my first race back, my first however many races back or whatever, I’m getting my butt kicked. Like that doesn’t mean that that’s how that’s gonna go, um, forever.
Brad (01:15:05):
Yeah. I think, I think you have a, a slight, um, a a little bit of security there that if you’re time trialing. What, what was your recent one? In, in, in 2024? You? Um,
Shelby (01:15:14):
I, the last time trials I did were in March this last in 2024. Yeah. I ran, let’s see, I ran 02:03 in the 800 and then 04:02.
Brad (01:15:28):
So for those of you unfamiliar with track times, it’s unlikely that you’re gonna be bringing up the rear. I hope not in any anyways. I hope these are world class times in a time trial without the spikes mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, um, it’s like getting in a pace line and, and, and having that, you know, advantage where fast times are run. I, I it’s like night and day difference from, you know, I’ve, I’ve done practice efforts myself and it’s like, of course it’s a joke compared to when you get in the race. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. You’re gonna crush it.
Shelby (01:15:58):
I hope so. Yeah. Like, you know, it’s, I’m, I’m really interested. Yeah. I’m trying to come in with no expectations. I’m just gonna, you know, let it be what it is. And it might not be fun at first, you know, like realistically I’m trying not to like really have too many expectations about it.
Brad (01:16:15):
What do you think, like, you, you think about like a crowd response and does that mean something to you that, do you have an expectation of that or a fear perhaps? Like, yeah,
Shelby (01:16:24):
There’s definitely fears there for sure. Like how, how I’m gonna be received. You know, I’ve, I’ve never had to step on the line and like, get booed before <laugh>, you know, so I like, and, and maybe that’s not gonna happen, but like, there’s a reality that that might, so it’s just kind of like trying to mentally prepare myself. I can’t control how people are gonna react to me, but I get to control how I respond to it. Yeah. I feel prepared. We’ll see when it actually, when I’m actually in that position, how that’s gonna feel. But I’m, my hope is that I’ve always been very good once I step on the line of tuning everything out. Sure. Yeah. And so I hope that I’m still just able to tune it all out and just go and get in my zone and do what I do best, you know?
Brad (01:17:16):
Yeah.
Shelby (01:17:16):
We’ll see.
Brad (01:17:17):
I have a comforting quote for you from Josh Kerr. Oh, okay. He has heard it on the way here podcast. Um, he was talking about the, the haters and the fans’ opinions and know whatever the rivalry with the Jakob and he, and all this stuff. Um, and he said, look, Sydney McLaughlin has haters, like a significant opinion thrown out with, with frequency that she doesn’t race often enough. And it’s like, okay, for those of you not familiar with her, she’s the greatest hurdler of all time. She’s one of the, you know, the transcendent track and field athletes you’ve ever seen in the world. And how can you ask for more than just, she keeps shattering the world record and people are not happy with her. And so, like, I thought about that and it, it was, it blew me away. ’cause it’s like, what else do you need to say? Well, yeah, it’s like if someone boos you from the crowd, it’s like, hi. Yeah. You flip ’em off five times in a row if you’re watching on camera. That’s my comment for waving my entire hand. Yeah. That’s what, that’s what I do on the road. I don’t want get into road rage dig. So I flip ’em off five times in a row with my, with my whole hand give perspective. So like, if Sydnee has haters,
Shelby (01:18:24):
Hey. Yeah. And that’s the, that’s the reality is everyone’s always gonna have an opinion. And with, in today’s age of, you know, social media, everyone thinks that their opinion needs to be voiced, <laugh>.
Brad (01:18:36):
It has value.
Shelby (01:18:38):
Everyone’s opinion now has value. And like, yeah. It’s, it’s, that’s kind of the reality is just like everyone’s gonna feel whatever they feel. And honestly, like the people that do reach out to like spread hate and negativity, like that says more about that person than it Sure. Ever will about me. Yeah. So like, that’s kind of the stance that I try to have.
Brad (01:18:58):
Yeah. And we, we all um, we all say that, you know, when, when, when asked about it, but I think like, there’s still some sting deep down. But I even wonder like when you mentioned, you know, during your suspension and you felt like all this value was taken away from you, I’m wondering like still when you went to sleep at night, you know, you didn’t cheat, you know, you have the highest moral standards, you know, you worked hard and earned everything you got. And does it like kind of wash that away no matter how big the noise gets?
Shelby (01:19:31):
Sometimes
Brad (01:19:32):
Yeah, sometimes.
Shelby (01:19:32):
Sometimes. And sometimes it’s hard. You know, like, that’s
Brad (01:19:35):
Like sports psychology. You should probably go study some. Oh, you did? Oh, I, yeah, she got a Master’s. It was really
Shelby (01:19:39):
Helpful. Yeah.
Brad (01:19:40):
That’s a great answer. That’s a great answer.
Shelby (01:19:42):
No, yeah, it’s sometimes I feel very secure in that, you know, and, and it’s, you know, I know myself, I feel confident in who I am and my character and integrity. My dogs are playing <laugh>. Hopefully the dogs agree with that stigma too. Um, but sometimes it’s hard to, like, especially when those moments where it’s, it just feels all very heavy and you’re like not feeling confident. Yeah. And like, just things aren’t going well. It’s hard to like really feel that. Yeah. And like, feel confident in it. And I definitely still have moments, especially as like, I’m coming back and, you know, I’m dealing with people being vocal again about like, how they feel about me and, and like, trying to get sponsorships, trying to get into races on the low days. It’s hard and it feels defeating and it’s just like, it kind of just goes back to like, I don’t deserve any of this and this sucks. Like, I, like, I can’t do anything about this. I know I don’t deserve it and I’m still having to deal with it. And that’s, that’s hard. Those days are hard. Um, but there is that other side of like, on the good days, I am confident and I am secure and, and it, and it’s fine. And the first couple years I’d say I would read some of those negative messages and I, they’d sit with me for five days. I would just ruin my day, like ruin my week. And now I read, you’re
Brad (01:21:07):
Gonna say I have like stupid typos and stuff.
Shelby (01:21:10):
It just, it didn’t matter. Right. Like, no one likes reading that stuff. Yeah. It does sing, but I think I was kind of remarking the other day. I’ve noticed how much I’ve grown the last four years. ’cause now I read those comments and it, it brushes off in five seconds. Yeah. Like, I don’t hold onto them. Yeah. And so that feels good <laugh> just to not Yeah.
Brad (01:21:31):
How getting older. Oh right. Serious. Yeah. Yeah. Like if there’s any, if there’s any, it sucks with the recovery times extended. Like you can’t even believe how long, when you’re almost 60 like me. But like, I think part of getting older is just realizing, you know, the insignificance of a lot of things that we, we dramatize throughout our lives, you know? Yeah. Not, not, not to say your stuff is insignificant and the nonsense that’s gone on, but like you’re gonna work through it, you know? Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Shelby (01:22:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Brad (01:22:01):
So you talked about your team environment. Maybe you can explain like, especially in terms of middle distance, long distance. The elites are a lot of times grouping up into a quote unquote team, which is often sponsored by one sponsor, but also like these training meccas like Flagstaff or Boulder Colorado or whatever. And so, um, it’s not like, you know, you, you uh, see the person city when they line up on the starting line, but really it’s kinda like, um, it’s sort of a team sport in that way. Yeah. And that’s kind of, tell us about this status of that. You talked about how the Bowerman Club was great and you had Jerry guiding other elite athletes too, but like, how’s that looking for the future? Yeah. The present, excuse me, don’t say future. Your own study future. It’s now, the future is now people. She’s been her, she’s heard the future 27,000 times in four years. Okay. For
Shelby (01:22:56):
Sure. No, it’s, this
Brad (01:22:57):
Show is airing in January of 2025 <laugh>.
Shelby (01:23:00):
It’s still pretty undecided. Like I transparently, I am so sick of training alone. Like I really would like to be a part of a team, have people consistently around me to work out with and run with and just have fun again. Um, ’cause that’s really like what makes the sport most fun for me is just like doing it with my friends. Yeah. That community aspect. So right now I’m still training alone, which is like sad. I was hoping, you know, to have a team around me by now. Um, and that’s, but
Brad (01:23:31):
I mean, can’t you text, um, Jakob and say, Hey, are you doing uh, 20 times 400? Can I do the first 10? I don’t think
Shelby (01:23:39):
We
Brad (01:23:40):
Aren’t those things around Flagstaff especially. Yeah,
Shelby (01:23:42):
For sure. And
Brad (01:23:43):
That you now see people at the track, right? Yeah. But it’s, it’s, so it’s not like the recreational athlete that says, Hey, let’s go for a jog. You gotta do eight times 400 with this and this. Yeah. And so it is kind of difficult to,
Shelby (01:23:57):
It’s hard to find training partners for sure.
Brad (01:23:59):
It’s also hard to find when you’re this freaking fast because it’s, there’s not many. Well, I mean, there’s probably some division one guys you could jump in with, right? I mean, yeah. I think there are option. Can you go N AAU and run with the
Shelby (01:24:11):
Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I can at this point. I can train with anyone that would like to train with me. Oh, what
Brad (01:24:15):
About before? Like, could you go and mix with a college running team and do a workout or
Shelby (01:24:20):
Something? No.
Brad (01:24:22):
You can’t go back to ASU where there’s a statue on this in, in front of the track and say, Hey, I Shelby’s here, we’re gonna run with her. No, no. That was, that’s not, that was forbidden.
Shelby (01:24:30):
That wa i, it goes back to like kind of those like gray rules where it’s like, it can’t be a part of like A-U-S-A-T-F sponsored thing. And yeah, I, I tried to like really only work out with people that had like, and I, this maybe only happened like a handful of times that I did get an opportunity to work out with people, but it was like, you know, a friend that has nothing to do with running anymore, he’s just kind of like, in shape what kind of no, U-S-A-T-F membership. Like nothing. Like just, you know, so it was really like trying to make sure I’m following these rules, but again, not definitively knowing what the rules are. So like, I didn’t wanna work out with college athletes ’cause I just like wasn’t sure. Um,
Brad (01:25:14):
Now you’re free to join any team or anything, and you’re looking at some options or what, how does it look? I mean, yeah,
Shelby (01:25:23):
It’s, it’s still all up in the air. You know, I, like I said, like I need, if I wanna go join Bowerman, I need a Nike sponsorship. Right. Or like, if I wanna, N as E Elite has a hope, like they’re sponsored by Hoka or like stuff like that. So it’s like you need a shoe sponsorship to join these teams typically. And so I estimating on the shoes,
Brad (01:25:45):
I mean, is that an informal deal or can you, uh, come over to the on running club and where’s it Boulder or something? Yeah. And say, Hey, I’m the American record holder. Can I, can I join you guys? Or,
Shelby (01:25:59):
I mean, I’m not really sure. Like, I think it would also depend on like, what if the team wants me to, you know, work out with them. Like they, yeah. I don’t know. It’s
Brad (01:26:09):
Who would not want you to work out with them? I mean, who, who does not want,
Shelby (01:26:12):
I don’t know. I guess you’d probably be surprised. <laugh>. I don’t know. But like,
Brad (01:26:15):
Oh, I mean, some of it’s like dynamics, right? Yeah.
Shelby (01:26:18):
Some people just like want the association, which
Brad (01:26:22):
No,
Shelby (01:26:22):
No. Again, is disappointing, but I get it. Um,
Brad (01:26:26):
Oh, I, I wouldn’t wanna work out with those people anyway if they’re that stupid, but I’m, yeah, I mean, sometimes you don’t want someone who’s gonna be, you don’t wanna train against maybe the number two American female because you might push each other too hard or something like that. I don’t, I
Shelby (01:26:38):
Personally wouldn’t have a problem with that. Like, Uhhuh <affirmative>. I, and that’s one thing I really loved about Bowerman is I feel like we had such a good team dynamic. Like Carissa was, is my, like one of my best friends, you know? And like, I genuinely, it was a, that type of like atmosphere was like, we pushed each other like to our limits, but also like very much supported each other. Yeah.
Brad (01:27:05):
It was just whites or,
Shelby (01:27:06):
Yes.
Brad (01:27:06):
Yeah, exactly. Elite runner. Yeah. World finalist Olympic finalists. Yeah. Talk.
Shelby (01:27:11):
And it is hard to find that sometimes, especially at these higher levels. ’cause people have egos in like, stuff like that. And, you know. What
Brad (01:27:18):
About the sponsors? Are they like the shoe sponsors don’t mix in in some cases? Or
Shelby (01:27:26):
What do you mean?
Brad (01:27:27):
Like on running every single person on the team is, is an on an athlete.
Shelby (01:27:32):
Yeah. Yeah. I believe so. I mean, there are some groups I think that aren’t like specifically sponsored by a shoe company that you can kind of Yeah. Jump in. There’s not a lot of them. You kind of like need a shoe sponsor to like, join some of these groups. So it’s, yeah. It’s hard. It’s,
Brad (01:27:50):
And um, are you, like, is this an effort now? You’re, are you, are you like seeking sponsors or are they seeking you? Or what is it like?
Shelby (01:27:58):
Yeah, I have an agent. So he, Paul Doyle, he’s kind of, he’s taking care of all that and like Yeah. You know, so I don’t have to like really do any of the leg work.
Brad (01:28:07):
So he’ll present you do yiou want to go to Canada and train in the winter?
New Speaker (01:28:07):
No thanks. Whatever’s, whatever’s coming.
Shelby (01:28:14):
Well, yeah, it is more, more so like the sponsorship stuff, right? Yeah. So it’s like, um, kind of, Hey, stop. Trying to find shoe sponsorships. And that’s kind of, I don’t know. It’s, it’s hard. Like, I’ve definitely had discussions with, with, or like, we’ve had talks with some of these companies and just nothing’s come to fruition up until this point. And so I’m just hoping that, you know, I’ll go out and hopefully run fast and maybe that’ll just even gimme more leverage. So I’m trying to see it as a blessing in disguise that nothing’s happened yet.
Brad (01:28:55):
If you shoe sponsors are listening, now’s your chance to, you know, get me wrong, get a bargain price. ’cause I’m, I’m, I’m feeling like a third middle finger’s ready when all these people are gonna now make you an offer after you win nationals or something. It’s like, yeah, you’re gonna pay, because I, I think it’s, I think it’d be a great gesture right now. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Well, Peluva is trying to sponsor you, but these aren’t really for track and running fast times. But, that’s interesting. I mean someone’s gonna be someone’s, someone’s gonna be regretting that they didn’t sign you in January of 2025 ’cause you’re gonna sign with one company mm-hmm <affirmative>. And everyone else missed out. It’s so obvious. Like
Shelby (01:29:35):
Yeah. I mean that’s, that’s the hope, right? Like, I hope I won’t have people you’re
Brad (01:29:39):
Paying like college champions big money now. Yeah, right. Six figure contracts. But you’re, you’re still unsigned.
Shelby (01:29:49):
Yep. Still unsigned right now. Um, yeah. Hopefully, hopefully I don’t have to go through the entire 2025 season unsigned. You’ll pass. I’ve answer that, I guess. We’ll see. But yeah, I mean, it’s hard and it is, I do understand the other side of that where it’s like, I unfortunately, like I come with some baggage, I suppose is the best way to put that. Well, in terms of the public eye, I,
Brad (01:30:16):
I talked to you before we hit record. I said I, I’m predicting your future career is you’re gonna be a corporate motivational speaker. <laugh>, I’m not kidding. Yeah. You know, like the baggage is this incredibly rich background and this, this perseverance and resilience through this, you know, uh, ups and downs of your career. It’s a incredible story. And I guess, you know, it’d be, it’ll be nice to see you running those fast times again, even though you already are with no cameras on. But that’ll, that’ll kind of bring it full circle in the public eye. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And Yeah. Your future’s. I I think it’s, I think it’s, I think it’s your destiny that this story is so much value to so many people, more so than like, Shelby won again and then the next year I won again. I have all these medals like Michael Phelps, I got 27 Golds <laugh> now that’s like, all right, great. Where did Michael Phelps end up? He, he ended up at the Meadows not to be, you know, uh, juicy here. But if he was sitting here, he’d say the same. You know, that it’s, it’s no, it’s no guarantee of anything, especially being well balanced and resilient and have a healthy perspective.
Brad (01:31:24):
So, yeah. Now my, my other question is why is the shoe companies such the centerpiece of track and field? Why don’t you also, you know, entertaining offers from sunglass company, food, clothing, whatever. Yeah,
Shelby (01:31:41):
No, that, I mean, that’s a great question and I should be, yeah, no, that’s the short answer is that’s kind of like the next step is like, okay, if I can’t get a shoe sponsorship right now, like there’s a lot of other avenues that I can kind of go down and that’s the next step is trying to figure out what those are. Like I ran a fast beer mile a couple years ago, so like, yeah, they may gotta get a beer sponsor.
Brad (01:32:04):
Just the beer companies,
Shelby (01:32:06):
You know,
Brad (01:32:07):
Tell us about that. So, this was a, it was like a super organized event, the World championships. Right. But you were allowed to run it ’cause there was no USA data. Yeah. It’s no red coats there. No, but this is like a huge thing in running if you’re not familiar with the Beer Mile. Like people do it as a thing. It’s a thing. Okay. What happened? How did you get in there?
Shelby (01:32:24):
Yeah, no, I, they approached me and asked me if that was something that like, you wanna come do the world champs beer
Brad (01:32:30):
Mile first question’s like, do you like beer? Yes. Do you? Well, it’s
Shelby (01:32:34):
Funny ’cause I was actually like, I had been kind of wanting to try to do the Beer Mile for a long time and I saw like the women’s recogni, my, I call it naive optimism. Maybe it’s just arrogance. I don’t know. But it’s just like, I was looking at it, I was like, I think I could do that. Like, I’ve never done one before, but I think I could do that. You know? Um, well,
Brad (01:32:53):
Let’s see. We know how fast you run the mile. So now you gotta time yourself drinking. Yeah. Every lap you drink.
Shelby (01:32:58):
Yeah, every lap. Yeah.
Brad (01:33:00):
This, this is gnarly.
Shelby (01:33:01):
One beer, a lap,
Brad (01:33:02):
A beer. Like an actual beer.
Shelby (01:33:04):
Yes. A 12 ounce beer. Yes. So, and yeah, you start off drinking a beer, run a lap. You
Brad (01:33:10):
Start before the, you start, you start, oh, the gun goes off and you drink. It’s the deadlift challenge. Exactly.
Shelby (01:33:15):
Yeah. And so you’re drinking four beers and four running four laps. And you’re trying to see, you can’t run while you’re drinking.
Brad (01:33:22):
It’s not like air. ’cause you weigh a hundred and something pounds. Yeah. You have to drink four beers. Just like the, just like the deck. The big tank. Yeah,
Shelby (01:33:29):
Absolutely. All right. I’m here for it. <laugh>. All right. Um, but yeah, no, so that was, they asked me if I wanted to do it and I had al already kind of like, wanted to, I thought it would be fun, but I think also it was just talking to my sister, she was like, I think this would be a good way for you. ’cause I always had a lot of anxiety around running the running community at that point, and she was like, I think this will be a good way for you to kind of just like tip dip your toe back into the running community in like a really, like, non-serious fun way. Oh,
Brad (01:34:02):
It’s serious. Say non-serious A world championship. Yeah.
Shelby (01:34:05):
But like, exactly. So it’s just like, it’s just a smaller community, just a way to like put yourself back in without it being too scary. Yeah. And that’s kind of why I chose to do it. I was like, it sounds fun. It sounds something like, something I’m excited about and I think it’ll be good for me to like really put myself back out there. And it was awesome. I loved it. It was so much fun. Ended up running, I think like 05:43 and 05:43. The record
Brad (01:34:33):
World Record. Yeah. Yeah. Did you shatter the old record? What was the old record?
Shelby (01:34:37):
I think it was, uh, I don’t, I’m not sure. Like sixteens six minutes and like maybe 13 or, yeah. Yeah. I don’t know what it was.
Brad (01:34:47):
So, I mean, to drink a beer, you have to swallow, you have to like finish it or there’s some rules, right? Yes. There’s a lot. You can’t pour it over your head. No. So like, to drink a beer has gotta take what, 15 seconds at least? Or what?
Shelby (01:34:58):
Well, this is like crazy. The guys are so fast about
Brad (01:35:01):
What do the elites do? They, are they,
Shelby (01:35:03):
It’s like watching some of those top guys, like Corey Belmore and like <laugh>. They
Brad (01:35:08):
Household names in the
Shelby (01:35:10):
Run are so good. I’m like, this has one of the most oppressive things I’ve ever seen in my life. Like it’s, they, they’re consistently chugging these beers in like six to seven seconds and then like running six to seven seconds.
Brad (01:35:20):
Yeah. That’s just like open throat. Yes.
Shelby (01:35:22):
Yeah, exactly. I can do that. I can get like around 12 to 15 seconds on my first one. And then the other ones are like more like 20 ish. So I could definitely improve on my chug time.
Brad (01:35:34):
There’s a minute right there. Yeah. And another 15. And you ran a 05:43 mm-hmm <affirmative>. So you ran a four something low, four 20 pace, you
Shelby (01:35:44):
Think? Oh, I’m not sure. I, I don’t know. I’m not,
Brad (01:35:47):
Don’t forget. Plus you got beer and you’re sloshing around with it. Oh yeah.
Shelby (01:35:50):
By the third lap, you’re like, definitely starting to,
Brad (01:35:52):
It’s a 12 ounce beer. Yep. Yeah. So it’s 48 ounces. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You just gained four pounds. And it’s three pounds, bro, right? Yeah. A gallon’s eight pounds. Yeah. Yeah. Or seven pounds. Yeah.
Shelby (01:36:04):
Yeah. It’s been very fun. It’s a
Brad (01:36:06):
Great performance.
Shelby (01:36:07):
I like, thank you. It was, it was fun. That’s
Brad (01:36:09):
That, that record’s gonna stand for a long time. Well,
Shelby (01:36:11):
I hope I can break it.
Brad (01:36:13):
<laugh>. Yeah. I mean that’s, that I keep, that might not fit into your busy schedule.
Shelby (01:36:16):
Oh, I’ll, I’ll make ’em fit. Yeah. I, I actually like, do kind of like, wanna keep doing ’em ’cause they, they’re fun and like, it’s a new challenge. So like, I feel like if in running, I really know how to push myself to that line without like, like where’s the line where I think I can hold it and I’m not, I might die. I might not die. Yeah. Right. And with the Beer Mile,
Brad (01:36:38):
You might puke. Might not puke.
Shelby (01:36:40):
Yeah. It, the line is just, you don’t know where the line is. So it’s like trying to figure out how fast can I run without putting myself over the edge where I’m gonna throw up. I’m not sure where that’s at yet. So it’s like, I think there’s a lot of room to improve. ’cause I, at that point, I don’t Oh, you conservative. That was the first one I had ever done. Like
Brad (01:36:59):
You just did one in practice.
Shelby (01:37:00):
I did three practice ones every single Sunday leading up to that. Wow. Yeah.
Brad (01:37:04):
Where was this event?
Shelby (01:37:06):
The world champs were in Chicago. Wow. Yeah. So I was like up in Park City at 8,000 feet doing my own practice Beer Mile, just running back and forth on this road. Wow. Um, yeah, that was the only way I knew how to like, maybe prepare for it. Um, but I, yeah, I think there’s a lot of room to improve there. And I, at some point, like, this is just me and my wild dreams that I would like to do. I think it’d be cool to try to break five minutes in the view mile <laugh>. I don’t know if that’s possible. I don’t know if that’s gonna happen, but that’s kinda like my ultimate goal. I think that would be cool. Obviously there’s a lot of steps that need to happen before I Yeah. Would get that there. But, um, yeah, I don’t know. I think there’s, I enjoy it. I think it’s fun. It’s a cool community
Brad (01:37:52):
That, and winning some Olympic and world championship medals, so throw ’em all in with the goals. Throw ’em in the mix. Mix ’em around. Yeah. Uh, so let’s talk about 2025. You’re probably plotting your season. I want to ask you what you think about this grand slam track new venture and, um, it’s gotten a lot of attention putting in some big money into the sport which is great to see. I’m, I’m, I have some reservations about some of the formatting and, and some of the stuff I don’t think is that necessary, but any money going to the athletes is great. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then we have the, what’s the, the female event that was put on by, um, Ohian, the female track meet, you know, um, Serena Williams husband. Oh, I
Shelby (01:38:33):
Don’t know. I wa
Brad (01:38:34):
In New York.
Shelby (01:38:34):
I’m not sure.
Brad (01:38:35):
Athena,
Shelby (01:38:36):
I don’t know. Yeah. I, like I said, it was falling pretty closely
Brad (01:38:40):
New York. They had like, huge prize money and it was at the end of the season. Oh, that’s cool. I think they won like a diamond tiara and $50,000 the winner of each event or some crazy thing. Dang. That’s super cool. You didn’t even hear this.
Shelby (01:38:53):
No, I, I have.
Brad (01:38:54):
You better put that on your schedule.
Shelby (01:38:56):
Yeah. This is, this is prime example, number one. Like, I’ve kind of been following the sport, but there’s, I’ve muted like all running accounts on my Instagram, like, stuff like that. So like, I don’t get a lot of the news. Like,
Brad (01:39:07):
Um, it was, yeah, Alexis Hanian is the founder of Reddit and his wife is Serena Williams. And he got interested in track and he went to some of the meets. He said, I’m gonna put on a meet. That’s pretty cool. We had this incredible meet in New York. It was the only, only females. Yeah.
Shelby (01:39:21):
Very cool.
Brad (01:39:22):
Athlos, what was it called? Mia. You don’t remember that Meet? It was on TV. They did a good job. You’ll be looking it up and Okay. Jumping in. Yeah. But of course you’ve heard of Grand Slam Track, I
Shelby (01:39:31):
Suppose. I have heard of that one. Yeah. I don’t know much about it. <laugh>. I heard of it. Um, I get
Brad (01:39:37):
The racers, she doesn’t know much about it, so watch out if you’re one of those people that signed, but they, they signed up like for, uh, know
Shelby (01:39:46):
There’s like an
Brad (01:39:46):
Four four Raiders and then they’re gonna have challengers and you try to knock off the people who are, you know, the four designated, um, athletes that they signed to contracts. Gotcha. And there’s four cities I think starting out. Okay. Yeah. But huge prize money again. $60,000 to the winner of the races. One race that’s like dorse. That’s awesome. Diamond League. What’s the world? What are the world payouts for? World championships or It’s still, it’s like 30 or 40 for a gold medal or something, or,
Shelby (01:40:14):
Uh, I’m, it’s
Brad (01:40:16):
Kind of embarrassing.
Shelby (01:40:17):
It’s too far removed. I’m not sure.
Brad (01:40:19):
You find out when you start collecting the checks. Oh, paying taxes on. Yeah. Her first glimpse will be at her meeting with her accountant. Yeah. Yeah.
Shelby (01:40:27):
Yep.
Brad (01:40:28):
So, uh, you’ve just heard about it, but are you thinking of participating or any of that stuff?
Shelby (01:40:32):
I’ve not like, heard any interest in me. So as far as of right now, no, I’m not, um, participating in those. Um, what
Brad (01:40:41):
About other meets? Don’t you have to line some of that stuff up now?
Shelby (01:40:44):
Yeah, I’m trying to. It’s hard ’cause like, again, I’m not part of a group. I don’t have like an actual coach right now. And typically
Brad (01:40:52):
Your’s doing that, right?
Shelby (01:40:53):
Yeah. Like he’s trying to like, kind of figure things out, but like, yeah, like typically in the past Jerry would just be like, okay, these are the meets we’re running at. And I’d be like, cool. Right. And that was it. You know, I didn’t have anything coaching. Yeah. Yeah. And so like, he would kind of structure the workouts around those. Yeah. I never did anything. If anything, I was like, oh, like, but what about Drake relays? You know, like, stuff like Uhhuh, <affirmative>, Uhhuh, <affirmative>. Um, but yeah, so I think now that I’m trying, I’m, I’m having to create my own racing schedule. It’s, I don’t know. I don’t know how to do it. <laugh>. Yeah. So it’s, it’s been interesting. There’s nothing like set right now, really. Um, I,
Brad (01:41:31):
This is a good year to come back. Yeah. So the money thrown at the sport is insane right now. Yeah. And this back is like a $30 million commitment. Yeah.
Shelby (01:41:39):
Yeah. And that, yeah. I mean, that would be cool to be a part of. As of right now, I’m not in the, you know, it’s fine. It’s, I think overall though, it’s like good for the sport. Mm-hmm. Um, just to get more eyes on it, get more money to the athletes, stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I don’t know. I’m, I’m open to it. If, if people want me to reach it, that’d be awesome, you know? But,
Brad (01:41:58):
And so the big goals would be there, there’s worlds this year, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. Okay. In Tokyo. Okay. Tokyo. Full
Shelby (01:42:06):
Circle moment. <laugh>.
Brad (01:42:07):
All right. So Tokyo was where the 2021 Olympics were that we were looking forward to seeing you race. You were preparing, you were at the top of the world and mm-hmm <affirmative>. You missed that Olympics. Yeah.
Shelby (01:42:17):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So
Brad (01:42:19):
Let’s go back to Tokyo. And that’s
Shelby (01:42:21):
The plan. That’s the hope, right? I, I hope to get back there. That’s like the big goal for my season. I’d like to make that Tokyo team and try to go medal. So we’ll see.
Brad (01:42:32):
And if, you know, some of this stuff is, um, is, is I want to ask you about, because there seems to be so much waiting on these championship meets. And then you saw thing Mo, I don’t know if you saw, but, if track fans, remember she’s the best in the world and she gets tripped on the first lap at the 800. It over. Yeah. I
Shelby (01:42:54):
Broke
Brad (01:42:54):
For her’s. Like, dang. You know, like, I kinda wish at least there’s more championships now, and so there’s something to look forward to, but like certain misfortunes, like an injury can kind of, you know, create huge disappointment. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I also wonder like, how much importance do you place on, let’s say beating your PR and breaking the American record or getting to 03:50, which is this amazing barrier that now has been broken by females in the 1500. Oh. And then also, like, talk about your events. Like, are you still, are you, are you mainly 1500? Do you think five is gonna be your thing or what? Gonna, we’ll see the, the grand slam track you have to run 800, 1500. Yeah. You have to, yeah.
Shelby (01:43:36):
And I, which is, I kind of like that idea. Like, yeah, I
Brad (01:43:39):
Elbow 800 on Instagram because you left it with a hundred. Well,
Shelby (01:43:42):
That’s ’cause I, I started running Yeah. The 800
Brad (01:43:44):
Shelbo 800 Instagram. Yeah. Some, yeah. Some very interesting posts there.
Shelby (01:43:49):
I grew up running the 800. Oh, okay. So that’s when I made that account, I was running the 800 and it’s just stuck the, like, over the years. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it’s still good to honor your roots, right? So <laugh> for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean, I don’t know. I really wanna stay in the 15. Um, and just, I just wanna find out if I’m still competitive there, if I can run faster. I think I can.
Brad (01:44:14):
We already found out, sister, you timed her, right? Yeah. <laugh>. We already thought it’s not a, hopefully
Shelby (01:44:20):
We’ll see. But yeah, I would like to stay in the 15 and, you know, if I’m not competitive there, I think probably my best events are gonna be in the 5K and 10 K. Like, I just am one of those athletes that I love the uncomfortable grind type of pain mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, which I think the 10 K is pretty well known for. So well, we’ll see.
Brad (01:44:45):
As we know now, like, it really helps your chances when you’re a 3 50, 4, 1500 person to go run the 10 K mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean, it’s like, it, it’s your, your future looks bright because you can move up distance, which it seems to be a pattern as athletes age throughout their career. Do you ever, is that a given or do you think this, I always wonder like, oh, they’re getting older, they’re gonna move up to the marathon. Yeah. It’s like why Justin Gatlin made world semifinals at age 40 in the hundreds. So,
Shelby (01:45:15):
Oh, that’s actually like a really, I was having this conversation with my boyfriend a few days ago about this. I were where, you know, there’s this like concept of like, oh, as you get older you get slower. And I’m like, I don’t know if that’s like, I get, maybe it’s like kind of true, but like Yeah. Adjusting. Yeah.
Brad (01:45:34):
I mean,
Shelby (01:45:35):
You might get like marginally slower, but it’s like, a lot of the time I feel like people tell themselves that. And like, that’s just kind of what happens. ’cause they’re focusing more on those longer distances. Yeah. They’re stepping away from the speed aspect. Yeah. And like, if you’re only focusing on these slower paces, of course you’re gonna get slower. Yeah. Like, just, that’s how training works. Right. Okay. So it’s like, but if you’re constantly still trying to do these faster speed workouts, work on your speed, I don’t know that that’s necessarily true. Good. And like, all right, I have no scientific background in this. So like other, it’s what I say for a grain grain of salt, but this is just like how I feel about it. Yeah. Like I don’t think it’s as big of a thing as people wanna make it out to be. I think I can still run fast at 32 years of age in the 1500. Hopefully I can break three 50. I don’t know. Um, I’m gonna try to find out, but I, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know that you have to get slower. I think that’s just like a mindset that we’ve adopted and like accepted for whatever reason. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad (01:46:37):
It’s possibly in the old days where the body wasn’t taken care of enough and there wasn’t, you know, the holistic approach and maybe the training was more brutal that you can’t handle that high impact workout anymore. But I mean, Justin Gatlin made the world finals at 40, so he, it, it’s, it’s nonsense for an athlete who extends their career. LeBron James is still flying through the air and dunking mm-hmm <affirmative>. At 38. So Yeah.
Shelby (01:47:03):
Yeah. I think it’s just really about how well you take care of your body and what you’re doing to help you do that. You know? And if you’re not taking care of your body, you’re not getting in the gym, you’re doing all like, kind of like missing all of these other aspects that keep you healthy. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Then of course, like, I think the longer you do this high impact sport, it’s going to deteriorate your body. That’s kind of like a given, but you gotta take care of
Brad (01:47:34):
Yourself. Do you think, um, middle and long dis uh, middle distance is more injurious than like marathon training necessarily, or?
Shelby (01:47:42):
Oh, that’s a great question. I’m not sure, honestly.
Brad (01:47:45):
I know we look at the stats. Yeah. And that, that’s not even something to look at. ’cause it’s like any athlete who gets injured, I think made a mistake. Right?
Shelby (01:47:52):
Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of times, and again, this is all just my own opinion, I had enough nothing to like really back this up. This is just how I feel about it. But I think a lot of people do too much for marathon training. Like, I don’t know that you have to run 120, 130 miles a week. Like I think I could probably run a fairly fast marathon running my 80 ish, 80 to 90 miles a wee.
Brad (01:48:17):
Ryan Hall. You just, I Don’t know You’re here in Flagstaff. Hey, Ryan, listen. Yeah. I mean, he told his whole story of how he destroyed his body and had to retire at 32 or something. Yeah. Because he overtrained his ass off. Yeah. Ridiculous.
Shelby (01:48:29):
Yeah. Yeah. And like, again, I don’t know, I’ve never run a marathon, so this is just like me talking outta my, you know? But like it’s, I do think it’s one of those things where I still think when people go to the marathon, they just start doing these slower paces and they stop doing speed. Mm. But I think speed’s important ’cause like the faster you, you know, if, if your all out mile is like 04:50 and your race pace is 05:20, you know, like that’s a hard, but if you’re all out mile is like 04:20 and you’re trying to run five 20, that’s gonna make five 20 feel like a lot easier. Yeah. So I think there’s like a, I don’t know, and again, I don’t know what I’m talking about, but this is just what I feel like makes the most sense. Um, I think people shy away from speed too much when they just start training for the marathon. Yeah. But
Brad (01:49:20):
I, you don’t know what you’re talking about, but <laugh>, you’re sitting on the American record and actually Arthur Liddiard 60 years ago, you know him, the original pioneer of, um, you know, the most, the greatest breakthrough in long distance training. His quote was, um, the whole essence is to get strong enough. So, um, you don’t slow down from, in other words, it’s like, it’s not working on your speed, it’s working on your strength so that your speed can still show on the last 200 meters of the 1500. Yes. You know? Um, and the marathon’s so fast now. I mean, the girl’s running 02:09. Yeah. It’s crazy. So we’re not gonna see a, a girl with a PR of 04:43 be competing Yeah. Right. Or whatever. Yeah. 02:09 is four. It’s like four. It’s like 04:48 itself.
Shelby (01:50:04):
I have no idea. Oh my
Brad (01:50:06):
Goodness.
Shelby (01:50:06):
That is actually, so that’s insane. Insane. Yeah. That’s very insane. Yeah.
Brad (01:50:10):
Uh, so before we let you go, thanks for spending all the time of, you know, you’re in heavy training altitude camp here, but, um, I’d love to breeze through like what a week’s training pattern is like for an elite athlete and where, what you do and how many times you go into the gym or to massage or red light therapy. We just got a gif for our here. Hand me that thing. I’m gonna put it on the video. Here’s our, here’s our, our gif for our podcast guest from Mito Red Light sponsoring the podcast and sponsoring great athletes. Hopefully.
Shelby (01:50:39):
Super excited. Yeah, my weekly training, it kind of like varies for sure, but I, you know, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, and one either usually like Saturday, would be more easy running days and those would be like 10 miles.
Brad (01:50:59):
And that easy, does that have a range based on how you feel or
Shelby (01:51:04):
Sometimes <laugh>
Brad (01:51:05):
Yeah. I mean, is it a tight range? Is it, is it between three and 10? Or It’s four and 12 or eight and 10, you know it?
Shelby (01:51:12):
Yeah. It’s like probably more like eight, between eight and 10. Um,
Brad (01:51:16):
And what kind of pace?
Shelby (01:51:17):
Whatever I’d need to run. So like whether, if it, if that’s eight minute pace, then it’s eight minute pace. If it’s, if I just feel good and it’s seven fifteens, like no, you know, it’s, I try to like really listen to my body as far as easy runs go.
Brad (01:51:31):
Oh, so that’s easy. Yeah. You, you’re saying that’s easy. So those four days are like your easy, those are my easy days. Yeah. So an eight minute pace for 10 miles is easy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Are you talking about here at 7,500 feet elevation? Yeah. Okay. So, uh, my frequent podcast listeners know I talk about training, I talk about heart rate and monitoring your aerobic heart rate. So easy for you and me would be a brisk walk and easy for elite athlete is 10 miles at eight minute pace at 7,500 feet elevation.
Shelby (01:52:05):
Something like that at your hands on the athlete.
Brad (01:52:07):
And then I heard you say hope and try many times in the show that you’re gonna hope and try to run fast. Yeah. I’m gonna go to Vegas right after this or the Indian casino nearby and put money <laugh>. I mean, that’s like, this is an aerobic machine talking here. Yeah. But the important thing to take away is like, it is an easy Yeah. It’s not, you’re not like coming back and putting your feet up and feeling torched. It’s just like a morning, a morning outing. Yeah. It’s can Dachshunds make it miniature Dachshund make it?
Shelby (01:52:35):
I’ve not tried eight
Brad (01:52:36):
Miles at 7,500 feet.
Shelby (01:52:38):
I’ve not tried. They have a lot of energy. So they’re are running around feet are fast. They might make it half a half mile, but Yeah. Yeah. I’ve never tried to,
Brad (01:52:45):
Okay, so it’s four days a week, kind of a similar easy day pattern when you’re
Shelby (01:52:49):
Out there. Yeah. And it, one of those days, instead of doing maybe a 10 mile day, if like mileage wise, I’m okay. I might try to go more like a six mile day mm-hmm <affirmative>. And like actually have an easy day. I’ve contemplating putting in maybe just taking it off and doing a cross training day. But I haven’t done that yet. But yeah. Then Tuesdays and Thur, and Tuesdays and Fridays typically are workout days. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So Tuesday I’ll typically do, like right now I’ll do like a strength workout, which will be anywhere from like eight to 10 miles a work plus a warmup and cool down. And then a Friday workout would be more like something specific or speed. And so that’s more hitting like those specific race paces
Brad (01:53:33):
On the track.
Shelby (01:53:34):
Uh, on the track. Yeah. Yep.
Brad (01:53:36):
Um, what’s an example of a session?
Shelby (01:53:38):
Well there was one that was on track all access that we did.
Brad (01:53:46):
Oh yeah. What is that? I saw you can go to the YouTube site and you can watch your workout.
Shelby (01:53:50):
Yeah. I did a workout workout flow track’s gonna come out with one soon. All right. So like for that one, for example, I did 30 by essentially 30 by 300. It was a lot.
Brad (01:54:00):
30. Yeah. By 300. Yep. At a pace at at decent pace.
Shelby (01:54:04):
The first I did 15 at 51 52 with 32nd jog.
Brad (01:54:11):
Okay. If you need a part That’s so funny. You’re talking 300. ’cause I can join you for three or four Yeah. At 51. No problem. I’ll, I’ll do 49. That would be I’ll, I’ll do 50 that. Yeah. Yeah. And then, okay. The, that’s three or four and then you got 26 to go <laugh>. Yes. Okay. So I’ll go down to Whole Foods. There’s beer recovery smoothie for the, the 26. Yeah. It was 30 times 300. Yeah,
Shelby (01:54:32):
It was broken up. So I did 15 and in between there’s a hundred jog in 30 seconds. So you’re really just,
Brad (01:54:40):
That’s It? Yep. That’s The break.
Shelby (01:54:41):
That’s the rest. And then five minutes rest. And then I did 10 by 300 with the same a hundred jog rest in 30 seconds. And I did that in around 50. Um, and then five minutes rest. And then I did five by 300 for the last little set. Uh, same rest, a hundred jo in 30 seconds. And that was more like 48, 49. And I think last one.
Brad (01:55:06):
Are you putting it on right now? No. Are you joking? You can go watch it <laugh>. That seems super human. Is that, is that a standard elite workout? Can people do that? Yeah. You weren’t like cooked at the end.
Shelby (01:55:20):
No, I mean
Brad (01:55:21):
That’s, that’s, that’s 9,000, that’s 9,000 meters. Yeah. That’s like,
Shelby (01:55:26):
That’s like, yeah. Yeah. Well that was, I think it’s five
Brad (01:55:29):
And a half. Five.
Shelby (01:55:29):
Yeah. I wouldn’t re I wouldn’t recommend anyone just going out and doing that. Like, you have to
Brad (01:55:33):
Also, you finish that and you’re, you’re okay. And you felt like, yeah, all right. I can’t wait till my next workout. I
Shelby (01:55:38):
Mean, I was definitely tired. I just ran 9,000 meters of work. Like I could feel
Brad (01:55:42):
That my body is this, this is not at 7,500 feet. Yeah,
Shelby (01:55:43):
Please. No, it was in Sedona. So it was at
Brad (01:55:46):
500. It’s feel, you feel it a little bit in Sedona. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. A little. Yeah. Yeah. You’d go one or two seconds faster if you did the same workout in Phoenix or something.
Shelby (01:55:54):
I maybe,
Brad (01:55:55):
I, I mean it’s,
Shelby (01:55:56):
I, I try not to like really alter my paces at baltitude. Like if what I’m doing at Sealable, I try to do it at altitude
Brad (01:56:05):
<laugh>, just ignore all that.
Shelby (01:56:07):
Yeah. I, I might take more rest kind of thing. But, um,
Brad (01:56:10):
Wait, were the other sections? I know we’re getting into the weeds with the running and the workout, but it’s interesting like that, that short recovery for all those mm-hmm <affirmative>. Okay. Yep. I’ll remain silent and just keep talking. Thank,
Shelby (01:56:23):
Yeah.
Brad (01:56:23):
Okay.
Shelby (01:56:24):
No, so like that
Brad (01:56:25):
The, okay. And then the eight to 10 miles of work, would this be like, uh, out on a trail or hills or just like long?
Shelby (01:56:30):
Sometimes It might be on the road or like a bike path. Yeah. but that would be like, I’m trying to think last, it would be like mile repeats or something. Like, something like that with like maybe a minute rest.
Brad (01:56:46):
A minute rest.
New Speaker (01:56:46):
Yeah. Short rest.
Brad (01:56:47):
So would this be considered like a threshold session where you’re bumping up right there to Yep. Yeah. What’s called anaerobic threshold, but just mildly uncomfortable, but it’s not like a race pace where you’re really tired after one rep. You’re just kind of revving this engine up to threshold, just
Shelby (01:57:03):
Slowly. You’re just getting tired as it goes. So like a, a classic workout that we would, we used to do would be like a, this was one of my favorite workouts was like a four mile tempo and then four by mile. So like a four mile tempo at 05:20 pace. And then, which
Brad (01:57:16):
Let’s say threshold, I would somewhere around there.
Shelby (01:57:18):
Yeah. And then like six minutes. And then we’d do like four by mile with, I don’t know, 90 seconds I think it was. And we would start at like fif 5 15, 5 10, 5 0 5, 5 flat, like something like that. Oh, that would be a,
Brad (01:57:32):
By that time you’re, you’re probably past your threshold I would assume. Trying to do it fine
Shelby (01:57:37):
Towards the end, I would assume. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad (01:57:38):
Yeah. So that’s just like kind of a race prep to keep pushing when you’re tired from 4, 5, 6, 7 miles hard. And then the last one. Mm-hmm
Shelby (01:57:47):
<affirmative>. Yeah.
Brad (01:57:49):
And is this the time of year where you’re kind of emphasizing more of these longer strength workouts? Are you gonna go do like some quick two hundreds to prepare for your 1500 something? Yeah,
Shelby (01:58:00):
I probably need to <laugh>, no. So like, yeah, a lot of the, like a strength workout like that, like I do a lot of those things in the fall to like kind of prep and build strength for the whole season. Yeah. As it gets more towards like a racing type of season or like that portion of the season, it’s gonna be more like, let’s do some raw speed. Um, or I guess like the 30 by 300, like that was that goal, like three K pace. Right. It’s like, yeah, you’re running 60 eights. 60 nines Yeah. Pace down to the last set was around what, 64 uhhuh pace. Yeah. Um, so it’s like, that’s definitely more of a specific session and that’s, you know, trying to sharpen it up a little bit, a little bit more. Um, so the workout’s changed as you get closer to racing and it becomes more about hitting these goal race paces. Mm-hmm. In the fall. It’s just like, let’s just do tempos and thresholds and Yeah. Maybe we’ll do some like speed endurance.
Brad (01:59:00):
And so like, day to day when you wake up the next morning after doing 30 times 300 with a 100 meter jogs, <laugh>, decent pace at that pace, um, do you feel beat up? You wake up with a bounce and you step and head out and run 10 miles. Is there any fluctuation in like your energy and even, I guess according like your motivation or, I don’t know, just do you have some days where you’re cooked out or a weekend where you’re on the couch a lot? Or how, how does this, how does this impact your life sort of?
Shelby (01:59:28):
Yeah. I mean it’s, I definitely like will get out the door after a session like that. And like a lot of the time, like I’ll feel tired and that those are days about the next mornings. Yeah. The next morning. And those are days where I will just run eight minute pace or whatever my body needs to run. Right. Okay. I’ll get the miles in. Yeah. Um, and then the rest of the day I will actually just sit on the couch and watch TV. Like I will, I really try to emphasize recovering and like letting my body rest not doing, you know, I try to be mindful of how much stress I’m putting on myself. Yeah. So like, even if I’m, you know, doing interviews or doing like calling people or like, that’s still stress. Like your body doesn’t like really identify between like physical stress and like emotional stress. Right. So it’s like I really try to focus on just actually relaxing, not putting any more additional stress on my body, trying to recover as best that I can. Maybe I’ll Normatec.
Brad (02:00:25):
Those are the compression boots. The compression boots do, uh, okay. It’s like you see in the hospital for surgical patients, they put ’em on their legs so they don’t clot up. So it’s sending blood to your legs feels great.
Shelby (02:00:36):
Yeah. Just circulating the blood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s, a lot of it is emphasizing just getting in good recovery. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad (02:00:44):
Did you read the New York Times profile on Jakob Ingebrigsten a couple years ago? Mm-hmm. He was talking about how he’s been coming to Flagstaff for many years, right? Yeah. And at the time he was like 17 or 18 in the profile and he was bringing his continuation work, his remote study work to, to Flagstaff. ’cause he’d come for whatever, six weeks. He’s still in high school, was trying to get his thing. And he, his quote was like, yeah, I stopped bringing my books to Flagstaff <laugh>. Oh gosh. Because he didn’t want to divert the energy to studying. Yeah. And so he just put it off. Yeah. Like his high school GED or whatever. Like it’s still, it’s still hanging in the balance. ’cause he’s trying to be number one. But it’s such a profound insight and I learned that too from triathlon. Like, you have to be horizontal or eating or sleeping, and those are those marginal gains. It’s, it’s like, yeah, you run a lot of mileage and all that, but like it goes hand in hand. You know, you can’t, you can’t put the 10 in and go work at Whole Foods in a shift. Yeah. But it’s gonna,
Shelby (02:01:43):
But yeah. And people do that and honestly, like, I have mad respect for people that have jobs and still try to do their, and like Yeah. Incredible. That was in insanely hard to do. Yeah. And I do have the luxury of I get to just go sit on the couch all day and do nothing. Yeah. And I, yeah. Like even going back to school, like that’s been a stressor. And I have felt that for sure with the training and like, I feel exhausted emotionally, physically. Yeah. Just like drained. And I’m <laugh> It’s funny, like I was doing some internship camps for my school and there I’d have to fly out to LA and we’d work with some, like a couple groups, and just practice. And it would be like an 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM shift. Ooh. And I’d, this is the first time I’m really like doing something like that. You’re on
Brad (02:02:29):
Your feet more than 20 minutes at a time.
Shelby (02:02:32):
I’d have to get up at 5:00 AM get my run in, and then go hang out and like work for eight, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM and I get home absolutely exhausted. I’m just like, how do people do this? Like, how do people train at a high level and have jobs? And like, I don’t, I I don’t have a family to go home to, like, if you have kids to a home, to like, yeah.
Shelby (02:02:53):
Insane. I had mad props. Matter respect. There’s a charisma phrase for it. Like, it’s amazing. Yeah. And I, yeah, it’s, it definitely put it a lot of things into perspective, I think. For sure. And I have a, a newly found appreciation for that. It’s funny, like my boyfriend would always come home from work and like, I’m like, I’m exhausted. And I never understood it. <affirmative And now he’s like laughing at me. He’s like, okay, yeah. You get it now. Like <laugh> to some degree. Right. Um, yeah. It’s being aware of the stress that you are putting on yourself, whether that’s emotionally, physically, whatever, like it does take a toll. Yeah.
Brad (02:03:36):
Yeah. And I think it’s a great phase of life. I have fond memories if I had nine years for being on the pro circuit and dedicating everything, and it’s like, I don’t think you’ll wanna do it forever. And there’ll be a time when you’re sort of like, want to branch out or, you know, you feel like you’ve reached your peak or whatever it is that you, you do. But like, it’s, it’s a great, it’s a great way to live because you inspire so many people running those fast times. And also just putting in this work and like having this dedication to peak performance. It’s, it’s like moving humanity further. It’s what a record is, right? Yeah. Like every, every female runner in, in this country’s looking at the standard is now, um, you know, set and it’s gonna be broken, but for this time that you’ve held it, which is a long time actually. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then you’re gonna go break your own record. I hope so. That’s fantastic.
Brad (02:04:23):
Shelby Houlahan back on the track pretty soon. Where are we gonna see you first? Do we have any inkling of when Yeah, when we’re, when we’re coming back?
Shelby (02:04:31):
I’m gonna open up with a three K, um, February 1st in Arkansas. Ooh, so soon. Arkansas. Yeah. I just wanna get Oh, it’s indoor or outdoor? Indoor. Oh, nice. Yeah. So I just get a low key meet, try to like get the rest off, shake the nerves out. Um, and then I’d like to do a mile at BU on February 8th.
Brad (02:04:51):
That’s another indoor. Another Indoor,
Shelby (02:04:53):
yeah. Yeah. And then I would like to do US indoors.
Brad (02:04:58):
Ah, that’s
Shelby (02:04:58):
In to try to qualify for World Games. Spokane or something. Or it’s in New York.
Brad (02:05:02):
Oh, us indoors in New York. And then where’s the worlds
Shelby (02:05:04):
In China.
Brad (02:05:05):
Oh, in China? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Okay. So you’re dedicating for indoors?
Shelby (02:05:08):
I’m trying. Oh yeah. We’ll see. Alright,
Brad (02:05:10):
We’ll be watching you. Thank you so much for the tonight Great interview. Super interesting. Thanks for listening, watching everybody go check out Shelbo800 at Instagram. And that’s a wrap.
Shelby (02:05:24):
Yeah. Thank you.
Brad (02:05:27):
Thank you so much for listening to the B.rad Podcast. We appreciate all feedback and suggestions. Email, podcast@bradventures.com and visit brad kerns.com to download five free eBooks and learn some great long cuts to a longer life. How to optimize testosterone naturally. Become a dark chocolate connoisseur and transition to a barefoot and minimalist shoe lifestyle.