Relationship coach Jillian Turecki is here to share incredible advice to help you realize how you can choose the best partner for yourself, help you navigate your relationship, tips for getting out of relationship ruts, and more!
Jillian has a gift for concise, pithy insights that can be life-changing (she has been a relationship coach for 20 years helping people transform their relationships with themselves), and in this episode, she explains why we all need discipline and curiosity, how we all can always control our own behavior, and the importance of transcending the urges of the primitive brain so you can start to become more self-aware and change your relationship patterns.
This is a great show to listen to if you’re relationship, but particularly if you are single and looking for a partner—Jillian will tell you how to break negative patterns in your relationships and avoid creating stories and getting into your head too far, why so many women often go for the Bad Boy and men often go for the Baby Bird, why resentment is the killer of relationships, and more helpful advice to help you navigate your relationships, whether you’re single or partnered up.
Connect with Jillian on Instagram, click here to visit her website, and don’t forget to check out her podcast, Jillian on Love.
TIMESTAMPS:
The mind is a battlefield, so we have to work hard and make a choice to do something different in life. [00:52]
Most relationship problems stem from something that’s going on in our own life, like not being happy, fulfilled, satisfied, or low self-esteem. [05:23]
We often end up telling stories about the person we are in a relationship with rather than learning good communication. [08:07]
How do we extricate ourselves from the pattern of assuming? What is the story I’m telling myself? [13:28]
These problems are not part of a flawed childhood, it is just part of being human. [16:19]
Everyone is in control of their behavior. [22:20]
The two things that matter in a relationship is who you choose and who you show up as. [24:49]
You want someone who embodies the qualities and the character traits that you need in order to function in a relationship. [29:31]
Why do some women go for the bad boy? [33:33]
Some men are attracted to a woman who is a broken bird. Her vulnerability is what attracts. [39:16]
In general people want to live their life with someone who loves them. [42:58]
Do you have to love yourself before you can be in a relationship? [46:47]
Sex complicates things. Get to know someone on a profound level before you take it to sex and playing house with each other. [50:18]
Men like to hunt and pursue women. The problem is they don’t understand what happens to the woman after he catches and beds her. [54:37]
LINKS:
- Brad Kearns.com
- Brad’s Shopping page
- B.rad Whey Protein Isolate Superfuel – The Best Protein on The Planet! Available in Two Delicious Flavors: Vanilla Bean and Cocoa Bean
- Jillian on Love
- JillianTurecki.com
LISTEN:
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B.Rad Podcast:
Brad (00:00:00):
Welcome to the B.rad podcast, where we explore ways to pursue peak performance with passion throughout life without taking ourselves too seriously. I’m Brad Kearns, New York Times bestselling author, former number three world-ranked professional triathlete and Guinness World Record Masters athlete. I connect with experts in diet, fitness, and personal growth, and deliver short breather shows where you get simple, actionable tips to improve your life right away. Let’s explore beyond the hype, hacks, shortcuts, and sciencey talk to laugh, have fun and appreciate the journey. It’s time to B.rad.
Jillian (00:00:38):
If you want someone who’s going to be your ally in life and roll up their sleeves with you and fix conflict, you better be able to do that too.
Brad (00:00:52):
I am so excited to introduce you to Jillian Turecki, relationship coach. I have been trying to get her on the show for a long time because I’m a huge fan. I discovered her on Instagram, and boy, it made a tremendous initial impression with her, extremely concise and pithy insights that have the potential to be life changing. And you know how certain people have a gift for certain things? I really feel like Jillian has answered her calling and her awareness and the suggestions that she makes. Some of them counter to the typical advice that we hear about relationships. So I think you’re gonna really have a tremendous experience listening to this show. Maybe you should listen to it once every six months. That’s what I plan to do, because it is, it is heavy, it is thick, and it is deep. And you’ve heard about this prevailing theme these days about your childhood traumas playing out in life.
Brad (00:01:47):
She’s gonna tell you flat out that she will not accept that. And your poor traumatized past does not sentence you to continued suffering and repeating of flawed patterns. No, Jillian’s gonna remind us that we can always control our behavior, and we need to exercise discipline and curiosity and often transcend the urges of the primitive brain and start becoming more self-aware. And she will tell you how very quickly in this powerful show. The show is great for single people that are looking for a partner and trying to navigate that world. And also for longtime partnerships that might be mired now and then in negative patterns, such as the most predominant one, according to Jillian, is creating stories instead of communicating well and getting really far into your head where you’re stuck in your own story about your partner, quote, the mind is a battlefield. So we have to work hard and make a choice to do something different in life.
Brad (00:02:49):
So you’re gonna learn a ton in this show, but you’re also gonna be entertained when she describes in colorful manner why women often fall for the bad boy and why men often go for the baby bird and what those archetypes mean. You’re gonna learn why resentment is the killer of relationships. And I’m gonna direct you strongly to go over and listen to her podcast called Jillian on Love. I should give you a quick bio and then proceed to the show. So her name is Jillian Tureck. She’s a certified relationship coach, teacher and writer who for 20 years has taught others how to transform their relationships with themselves and of course, their relationships with others. Fueled by an insatiable curiosity about what makes a relationship thrive, Jillian has helped thousands through her teaching and writing, revolutionize their relationship with themselves so that they transform their relationship with others. She sought out for her compassionate, direct, and very authentic style of coaching and teaching. And that’s definitely what you get in this show. Here we go with Jillian, Jillian, Turecki Jillian on love. I’m so glad to join you. I’m a huge fan. I’ve been been cranking through your podcast. Thanks for coming on the B Rad podcast.
Jillian (00:04:06):
Oh, thank you so much for supporting me in the podcast. I appreciate it, and it’s very nice to meet you.
Brad (00:04:11):
Well, I mean, one thing is you only started a little over a year ago, and tell me how that’s gone. There’s
Jillian (00:04:18):
A podcast, not, not work. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Not my, not my work, but yes, the podcast a little over a year ago. Yeah.
Brad (00:04:25):
How has that gone for you?
Jillian (00:04:27):
Um, it’s been great. I love it. I really, really love it. I love to be able to take things that I, that I share on social media and, and be able to really dive deep into the nuance of the topic. So I love it.
Brad (00:04:43):
Yeah. I think I first discovered you on social media, and I’m gonna give you the award for the most punchy and, you know, concise, but really, really powerful insights. You can say so much in one minute or 30 seconds or whatever I’m getting hit with. But, the same with the podcast. It’s just nonstop rapid-fire insights and, and so profound and memorable. I have so many notes, and I think our, our listeners are gonna, uh, uh, realize this right away that, we got some, we got some big ticket items that we have to face today and let’s it keep getting in the way, huh?
Jillian (00:05:17):
Let’s do it. Relationships. They make the world go round or they stop your world. <laugh>,
Brad (00:05:23):
<laugh>. One thing that that pops out for me is when you say that most relationship problems stem from something that’s going on in our own life and not being happy, fulfilled, satisfied, self-esteem. I was, particularly remembering the show you did with a real live caller. The, the guy who called himself a quote failed artist, and you went right for that and kind of, you know, you had to hear him out and listen to him talk about his relationship difficulties, but you zeroed in on something that was unrelated to the juggling and the, the dilemmas that he had in, in the relationship realm. So maybe we could start there.
Jillian (00:06:05):
Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, specifically to that episode, I think that, you know, sometimes when someone has a very hard time getting over a relationship, an ex-relationship, or an ex-partner, it has more to do with how they feel about themselves and that they, that their partners just, or this person who they were in a relationship with is really just a metaphor for something that’s actually missing in their own lives. I would say that most relationship problems don’t really stem from people’s low self-esteem. I think people, most relationship problems stem from people creating stories and meanings about their partner and not communicating. I think that that’s, that’s usually what actually causes the most disconnection in relationships, but certainly how we relate to ourselves. You know, if someone is struggling to be in a healthy relationship and they are, you know, every relationship that they’re in ends up in a lot of heartbreak, or it ends up being very tumultuous. You know, at some point we have to, say, you know, maybe this is something that needs to change within me. And that’s when we have to kind of look in the mirror. And it’s, and, and the thing is, that kind of responsibility has nothing to do with blame. It’s not blame, it’s, it’s about saying, if I want something to change in my life, I am the only one who can create that change. And so it all starts with the relationship that we have with ourselves, for sure.
Brad (00:07:44):
You find people succeed if they’re able to make a fundamental change in how they operate and the relationship transform as well? Um, even if the other person’s stuck and they have created all the stories about you, and now you’re seeing it clearly for the first time after listening to so many shows and you can respond with kindness, directness, and authenticity.
Jillian (00:08:07):
I think that we have more influence over our partner and relationships, then we give ourselves credit. So I do think that, you know, ’cause the, the trap that people fall in into is, well, I’ll make changes if they make changes. Hmm, I’ll do it. If they do it, I’ll scratch their back as long as they scratch my back first. And the thing is, is that we are, the onus is always on us in a relationship. We have to show up the way that we wanna show up in a relationship. And if by doing that, we are unable to influence the person who we are in a relationship with. And if by doing that, what is revealed to us is that we’re actually in a relationship with someone who, is either selfish or just not committed or just too immature, that’ll be revealed to us. But we can’t say, you know, I’ll change as long as they change first, because we do really have a lot of influence. I mean, anything that’s not working in a relationship is because of a dynamic. And so if you can at least change your part in the dynamic, you could, you could most certainly have the potential for changing the dynamic entirely.
Brad (00:09:27):
So how or why do we create these stories that you just mentioned? Is, is one of the main sticking points of relationship.
Jillian (00:09:36):
That’s what the mind does, right? The mind is, is just the storytelling machine. And the mind will do anything in its power to convince us of certain things. And so, we are very few people. Very, very few people in the world are skilled communicators. A very small percentage of people have skill or have good social skills and good communication skills. And when we’re in a relationship, the stakes are higher, right? Because we feel most vulnerable. We feel exposed, we feel we’re afraid we’re not gonna be enough. We feel like we’re gonna be rejected. And, so we just are not very skilled at communicating. So instead, we get in our heads and we create, we fabricate a story, and then all of a sudden we’ve turned this person who we claim to love into a monster or into, you know, someone who, you know, most of us are strangers to each other. And part of the reason why most of us are strangers to each other is because we get into our heads and our minds create an entire story and narrative about someone else. And we are more attached to the story than we are to actually trying to get to understand the person who’s in front of us.
Brad (00:11:04):
What’s an example of a story that a partner creates about that that keeps coming up?
Jillian (00:11:11):
Yeah, it’s like, you know, it’s just like, oh, you know, maybe you’re in a relationship with someone who’s, who’s late a lot of the time, even though you’ve told them that like, you don’t, like, you don’t like that. You know, you want them to be on time. So you have every right to maybe be annoyed at that. But the story that someone would come up with is something along the lines of, they’re late because they don’t care about me. They’re late because they don’t respect me. They’re late because they don’t love me. And when really, the truth is that person is late because they literally just have a problem with being on time and it has nothing. And it’s as annoying as it is, it has nothing to do with how that person feels about them. Or a story is just like, you know, we try to mind read. So we pr we’re, we’re imagining what this person is thinking and feeling, and then we’re reacting, responding to how to this imaginary story of how they’re thinking and feeling as opposed to communicating.
Brad (00:12:24):
Yeah. And I suppose then the person tries to explain themselves, I didn’t really mean to be late. Please don’t take it personally. And you further overlay that with another story. Like, oh, you’re just, you know, you’re just trying to get out of it now. You don’t really mean it or whatever. And then we just keep going down. Yeah.
Jillian (00:12:43):
It, it’s, exactly, and you can just go down that rabbit hole pretty, pretty fast and deep.
Brad (00:12:50):
So how do we,
Jillian (00:12:51):
It’s also, there’s much longer, bigger stories, but it’s, yeah. Yeah. But it’s usually the story is they don’t care if they love me. They’re always like this. They never do that. And we mind read and we claim to think that we know this person like the back of our hand. And so we know that that’s why we’re doing it. And like.
Brad (00:13:07):
Right.
Jillian (00:13:08):
All these assumptions as opposed to communicating.
Brad (00:13:11):
Yes. You were obviously flirting with Gary over there in the corner for so long at the party ’cause you, don’t care about me, or you’re not sensitive or this and that. It’s all the story.
Jillian (00:13:23):
Exactly. Exactly. When, when really, that person wasn’t like, they were just having a conversation,
Brad (00:13:28):
<laugh>. And then, so mean, there’s, well-meaning attempts to communicate that sometimes go spin out. And how do we, how do we extricate from that pattern?
Jillian (00:13:40):
We, well, first we, we have to have some willpower and we have to stop discipline. We have to actually stop ourselves and say, oh my God, I’m in my head right now. I’m in a story. And it’s because usually this, these are the stories that dysregulate our nervous system. These are the stories that, that make us feel sad and angry and all these emotions. So the first clue is how is is our emotional state? So if we’re feeling angry or resentful or pissed off or upset, then we have to kind of get curious. So it starts with curiosity before it becomes the, the discipline is in the commitment to being, becoming more aware of the fact that you do that and to try to catch it in real time. That’s the discipline. And then the curiosity is just like, oh, okay, I’m feeling all this, you know, what’s the story that I’m telling myself? Like, could something else be true? And maybe I should just talk to them about it,
Brad (00:14:44):
Discipline and curiosity, people
Jillian (00:14:46):
And don’t keep away.
Brad (00:14:47):
Right? Right. So when we exert that discipline, that curiosity, who then we, um, we, we extricate from especially the dysregulated nervous system where we, we can’t listen, we can’t communicate well. And the discussions turn into big arguments.
Jillian (00:15:06):
And some people are, if they were to be honest with themselves, are really good at creating those stories. Like, that’s actually the reason why they, their relationships never end up lasting, is because they’re always creating those kinds of stories. And so that’s when you just have to say, okay, I have a problem with this. I get in my head, I mindread, I don’t communicate. This is, this is how I contribute to the dysfunction of my life and of my relationships. So I have to now become consciously aware of like, when I’m starting to feel that icky feeling, I’m starting to feel resentful. I’m starting to get, I’m starting to pull away. I’m starting to, whatever it is that I do, I’m starting, I’m not seeing this person anymore. What’s the story that’s in my head right now? And now I need to communicate?
Brad (00:15:52):
Yeah. Do you think there’s some, like a sort of a, a background perverse, uh, appreciation for, for staying stuck in these patterns where you get some sort of a payoff and you know, you’re so used to creating stories and being self-righteous or whatever’s going on that Yeah. Um, you’re quite not quite willing to be, um, disciplined and, uh, and, and open?
Jillian (00:16:19):
Yeah. I think, well, first of all, it’s a habit. And these stories also give us like, um, sorry, my dog’s being weird. It’s a habit. And these, these stories definitely give us, you know, like, you like to use your word a certain self-righteousness and whatnot. I think most importantly, it’s just, it’s really just a habit. And that really, if you want healthy relationship with anyone, you have to really communicate and not let resentment get the best of you. Like resentment really is the killer of relationships. And it only builds because we mind read. We as we create our mind really does become a battlefield. And I think that if we can enter a relationship, and even, and even if we’re not in a relationship, if we can just all admit to ourselves that our minds very messy and can be a battlefield, and that really, if we wanna have healthier relationships, we need to question our thoughts a lot, and we have to communicate.
Brad (00:17:21):
Do you think a lot of it stems from the flawed childhood programming as we hear so frequently?
Jillian (00:17:28):
No, I think this is part of being human. Mm-Hmm.
Brad (00:17:32):
Okay. So no, everyone, no more storytelling allowed <laugh> to
Jillian (00:17:36):
Everyone creates stories. This is because this is what the mind does. We learn through story, we share, we share experiences through story. And the mind is here to keep us safe. It’s not designed to keep us happy. So it’s going to create all this stuff. But, but yes, there are certainly people who get in their heads a lot faster because they were not modeled to them like what healthy communication is. But you can always, you can always learn. You can always, you can always learn.
Brad (00:18:07):
So I like it. You’re coming from the, the position that we can we could take charge and, um, do whatever we want from this point by using discipline with the mind and, and, and curiosity. It’s not gonna take 20 years of therapy to unwind what happened between the ages of zero to seven. That’s playing out day after day in my,
Jillian (00:18:29):
Oh God, No. Yeah. Oh God, no. That what a what a waste of time. That would be <laugh>.
Brad (00:18:34):
But am I, am I getting this? I I seem to be picking this up as a common theme in today’s personal growth movement, psychology, mental health, that you have to go and reference point the, the zero to seven programming time to realize why you’re, again, arguing about your partner flirting with Gary over there in the corner at the party.
Jillian (00:18:57):
I disagree. I mean, I could not disagree more. So I think, think that, I think, no, no. So there is value in, in understanding your past. There is value in understanding your trauma. There is value in understanding your conditioning. So this is, it gets extremely valuable. And I think that it is, it behooves everyone to be aware of the thing, their flaws in a relationship and why they’re there. But to change it, you don’t have to analyze your, or blame your parents, and you don’t have to analyze your past. You just have to be aware, okay, this is something this has given me. It’s about insight. It’s like, oh, I’ve had a really tough time. I don’t know, I’ve had a really tough time with men, or I’ve had a really tough time with women. What, you know, why, why, why when this, why do certain things keep happening in my relationships?
Jillian (00:19:59):
And so to put the pieces of the puzzle together, you have to go back to your childhood, childhood to kind of understand your conditioning. To understand your programming and your conditioning. And so that gives you insight. And insight is very powerful. But to change it, to change it is to understand that you now have the power to change that. It’s like, okay, so you never learned that, that, but now, now it’s time to learn. Now it’s time to practice. Now it’s time to change the things. Oh, you have low self-worth or low self-esteem. And that has to do with daddy never, you know, showing you love or mommy never showing you love. And, you know, just being sort of aware of that. But that doesn’t mean that, that you can’t do things now to raise your self worth. That doesn’t mean that as an adult, you can’t change the way that you look. Because we have stories about our childhoods too. You know,
Brad (00:21:00):
<laugh>, they might not even be true.
Jillian (00:21:01):
Yeah. We have stories about how dad never picked us up after school, and that trauma that’s living inside of us, when really what was going on was that, you know, dad had a mild stroke, but he never told the family and or he never told the children because he didn’t want the children to worry about it. And that’s why he was late picking up, you know, the kids from school or, or he was late picking, picking you up from school because he had a drug and alcohol problem. And that is something that he’s lived with and has gotten over, but he’s lived so, so much shame over that. So it’s, it’s not that the, the story is not true, but the meaning that we derive from it, we live with it for so long. And so we have to, we do have to look at our past to give it insight, but we also have to learn how to look at our past differently. And then, you know, learn how to, excuse the, the metaphor, but learn how to make lemonade out of lemons and just, and everyone can learn. So it’s not, I’m not poo-pooing therapy. I just don’t think that it’s be all, end all. Like, knowing where your, the origin of like some of your fears come from is just one step. It’s not the whole step.
Brad (00:22:20):
Right. And this, I’m drawing a parallel to like, you know, diet, exercise, healthy living advice. Where let me ask you, let’s say we, we have the information we’re armed with the tremendous insights that we got from this very show in the first part of the show. It could be life changing, right? So what do you do if you’re engaged with, let’s say a client or even a listener to the podcast or a close friend or family member who seems to be armed with the proper knowledge, information, and awareness, but continues to play out, especially under the stress and pressure of relationship dynamics where I know how to handle this situation. I’ve learned very carefully, I’m ready, and then I cave in under pressure and revert back to, um, anger, defensiveness, resentment.
Jillian (00:23:12):
Well, it’s just to keep practicing. To keep practicing. Mm.
Brad (00:23:18):
Right. Instead of
Jillian (00:23:19):
Practicing, you know, like to then, then to apologize, then to learn how to apologize, then to learn how to own your behavior and to do better next time. You see everyone is in control of their behavior. Mm-Hmm.
Brad (00:23:35):
Hopefully, right?
Jillian (00:23:37):
No, everyone is in control of their behavior. Mm-Hmm. Unless they have a severe mental illness, everyone has, capacity to be in control of their behavior. Right?
Brad (00:23:46):
I see. Right.
Jillian (00:23:48):
If they’re not, and you know, then it’s just like, yeah. I mean, then someone might just have to hit a rock bottom, an emotional rock bottom for them to change, honestly. Yeah.
Brad (00:24:02):
Yeah. This kind of brings up the concept of deal-breakers and where do we dance on that continuum of having these firm and rigid deal-breakers? Like, I will not allow, uh, a yelling or, uh, uh, or this or that in my life. And then we also want to be, um, aware that people aren’t gonna be perfect. We’re gonna be locked in our stories. We’re gonna engage in a inappropriate manner. We’re gonna have, you know, fireworks and things that aren’t perfect. And so how do we navigate that? It, it seems like a constant dilemma where you don’t want to compromise your highest values and ideals, and then you’re living in a manner that’s different from that.
Jillian (00:24:49):
Look, no one is perfect. No one is perfect. And, but you just have to figure out what you absolutely, absolutely cannot live with. And just let it be a few things. Hmm. You know, I mean, we’re gonna have to live with a lot in someone who we love, you know? And sometimes it’s like, okay, you don’t want yelling. So does that mean when they raise your voice, your voice, like if you raise their voice and they raise your voice back at you, that’s a deal breaker. So, you know, it’s, I think that when it comes to dating, people are too willing to give the person who they’re attracted to a chance without acknowledging or waiting to see if actually they’re a good match. And so, because here’s the thing, when it comes to relationships, who you choose matters. It’s more than half of what matters. So there’s two things that matters. When, when it comes to a relationship, who you choose and who you show up as, those are the two things
Brad (00:25:59):
Who you choose and who you show up as Yeah. And how you decide to show up. Those are the only three,
Brad (00:26:08):
I guess those are interrelated, aren’t they, Jillian?
Jillian (00:26:11):
They are interrelated for sure. But so, but they’re, they’re the two most important things. So if you choose wrong, you, you’re, it’s never gonna work. If you continuously don’t show up as someone who’s willing to grow and communicate, you’re gonna mess it up. So and so, when it comes to deal-breakers, people need to take their choice, much in choosing a partner much more seriously. But that’s not about nitpicking. That’s not about nitpicking. It’s about getting clear about what is really most necessary for you in order to thrive in a relationship. And that is going back to your values. Like what is really most important to you? Not what your preference is, not what, oh, yeah. You know, I kind of wish they were this type or did this for a living, or anything like that. It’s like, no, what is absolutely essential to me, and we do this by understanding our psychology, like, you know, what kind of nature is this person going to have?
Jillian (00:27:27):
Because people don’t usually ask themselves that. What kind of communicator is this person? You know, what kind of person are they are? Are they someone who, when, when, when they face conflict, do they roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty and try to fix it? Or do they, do they run away from conflict? And then you gotta ask yourself the same questions. Because if you want someone who’s going to be your ally in life and roll up their sleeves with you and fix conflict, you better be able to do that too. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So these are the kind of questions, and we need to, before we choose someone, we need to know, I think we have to really, uh, try to understand the person, you know, how has their childhood, how does their childhood show up in their adulthood? And is the way that their childhood presents itself in their adulthood, is that something I can live with? Or is that incredibly triggering to me? Hmm. Um, what are their dreams? What are their deepest longings in life? And do their dreams and deepest longings align with mine? And then lastly is my life overall more meaningful with this person in it, or is it more stressful with this first, or is it just not that much more meaningful? Hmm.
Brad (00:29:10):
It seems like some of this stuff could be put on the back burner for the first two years when we’re washing chemicals. And then also I see a pattern of people going to the pen and paper, instead of these nuanced topics. Instead we’re looking at, well, they also went to Harvard, so it’s very nice. And, you know,
Jillian (00:29:31):
Yeah. And all that stuff. No, you know, just, it’s just, those are the things where people, that’s the list that people need to throw away. They people, because it’s really a balance of being open-minded to someone, maybe not fitting the exact archetype of what you pictured, but embodying the qualities and the character traits that you really need in order to function in a relationship.
Brad (00:30:02):
Help. It would help to be aware of those things that you really need.
Jillian (00:30:06):
Yes. So that’s the list that’s really important to write down. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad (00:30:10):
Yeah. I,
Jillian (00:30:10):
I, and that’s where your deal breakers are, are born. Hmm. Yeah.
Brad (00:30:14):
Right, right.Is there this new influence in recent generation where the opportunity to try a different option is so prevalent and so, immediate that we might be not engaging fully with the decision-making process and getting to know someone because a mobile device away is another, uh, fresh start with more chemicals, a wash,
Jillian (00:30:45):
Right. Wait, so what’s your question?
Brad (00:30:48):
Like, is that getting in the way these days? The fact that there’s 12 other, I mean, I’ve watched one of those shows for the first time that the Golden Bachelor, I was forced to watch it. It was pretty interesting. I’m loving it. Yeah. I heard your show about the, you did a show about one of the reality shows, and you said it was, you know, a good insight on human nature, and I agree. It was kind of crazy and Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> weird for me to watch it, and a little stressful after a while when there was, you know, just all the drama behind the scenes. But, um,
Jillian (00:31:17):
Yeah, it’s just too many choices. You’re
Brad (00:31:19):
Right. Yeah.
Jillian (00:31:20):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sure. And I think that that’s like online dating, it’s like all the choices and whatnot. Look, I mean, this is why I think that, um, you know, if, ’cause I teach to people who, if I’m teaching to singles, I’m teaching to singles who want long-term partnership. So I’m teaching them what they need to look for, for long-term partnership, not for a great affair or a fling. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, If you’re looking for a fling, forget it. Just go for the person who you have fun with and who you’re attracted to. If you’re looking for long-term partnership, you need to be looking for someone who really like, values the same things that you values. Like you have, like I said, you align in your childhood. Like even your trauma works. Hmm. Even your trauma works. Hmm. So if you’re, like, let’s say as a, as a woman, you’ve got some daddy issues where daddy didn’t love you, you know?
Jillian (00:32:31):
And, your pattern may have been to date men who felt, you know, overwhelmed by the idea of commitment. You know, they’re always sort of like pulling away a little bit. That’s a very classic thing. So what you would have to do is stop dating men who have commitment issues and date men who are very much available, who love their mom and who want to love you. And so, and that might be like, well, how do I do that? Well, there’s different ways to do that, and maybe you have to dig a little bit into your past to really understand that. But ultimately, it’s about making better choices, and it’s about making better choices.
Brad (00:33:23):
Is it common to push away those more appropriate candidates because we’re, yeah. Why <laugh>? Why, why do we go for the bad boy? Or whatever they call? Well,
Jillian (00:33:33):
Well, I, I mean, well, why do women go for the bad? Boy? That’s a, that’s a
Brad (00:33:38):
The age old question. Yeah.
Jillian (00:33:40):
Yeah. So I’ll tell, well, I mean, it’s a very simple answer. Ooh. The reason why women go for the bad boys, because archetypically, the bad boy represents strength, even though in reality he’s very weak. So he usually archetypically is presented in song and in literature as being very physically strong, as being someone who could protect you from danger. You know, he’s usually very tough. And so for the, for the heterosexual woman who’s interested in him, so she sees strength, but in reality, the bad boy is, and she also, let me backtrack a little bit. So she sees strength. She thinks she sees masculinity, and she also thinks if I can be the reason for his change, or if I can get this strong masculine beast to love me, then I have value when really she should be a lot pickier. Right. So, but in reality, the bad boy typically is incredibly narcissistic.
Jillian (00:35:02):
Mm-Hmm. Is incredibly immature. He’s selfish. And he has no direction in life. So it’s really about understanding how we’ve been influenced, conditioned by certain archetypes, by Hollywood, by film, by media, all of that. And then we start to recondition ourselves to see masculinity. Like, yeah, there’s always going to be, most women are always gonna be attracted to men who appear physically strong, but just because you’re attracted to someone, or you, or you notice them as being physically strong doesn’t mean you wanna date ’em. And so what we wanna, what we wanna recondition ourselves is to be with someone who’s mentally strong, who is not selfish, who isn’t messed up and tortured, you know? Mm-Hmm. Because sometimes that bad boy is also that tortured artist that’s a very similar archetype. It’s either, it’s either that, you know, the Jimmy Dean, James Dean, you know, bad boy, or Marlon Brando, archetype, which is like, okay, this is a guy who’s gonna protect me if there’s in a foxhole. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that’s why she’s attracted to him. Or there’s the, you know, the tortured artist, which is a different archetype, but everything has to do about changing the person trying to be in, you know, enough for the person. And so you start to realize, oh, this is my pattern. And there’s something that happens with maturity, and that is maturity happens when we have been burned so many times by particular pattern, and we realize, you know what, this has gotten very old. And then we,
Brad (00:36:53):
Like you said, you gotta hit bottom or have some sort of awakening. Yeah. You have
Jillian (00:36:57):
Yeah. Yeah. And then you say like, this is really old. This has gone old and boring. This isn’t work. I want more out of life. My priorities are changing. My priorities are changing. So like, one thing also to consider is the more interested that the more interested in becoming a better person, the more interested we become in becoming a better person, the more we’re going to be want to be with someone who wants to do that too.
Brad (00:37:36):
Who wants to do that themselves.
Jillian (00:37:39):
Yes.
Brad (00:37:40):
Shallow, you’re interested in people that are interested in self-improvement. Shallow people are
Jillian (00:37:44):
Interested in shallow people.
Brad (00:37:45):
Oof. Uh, yeah.
Jillian (00:37:47):
So I, and I, and the thing is, I think, look, I’m a pretty deep person, right? But I, when I was younger, I definitely approached relationships much more from a shallow place. So when I did do that, when I was approaching it more from a shallow place, I got shallow guys, right When it became, when it was more important to me to have real connection when it was more important to me to be a better person. And when it was more important to me to make love, you know, the most important thing, you know, when, when my priorities shifted, so does how I choose shifts, Mm-Hmm. And so some people, like I said earlier, just need to go through the motions of life and get beat up a little bit by life before they change. We are hoping not, but sometimes that’s a person’s path.
Brad (00:38:47):
Well, well, don’t even complain about the type that you attract, because it’s sort of like a mirror to what you’re putting out there, I guess.
Jillian (00:38:55):
Yeah. And it’s, well, I it’s
Brad (00:38:56):
You’re complaining about shallow guys, but you’re putting out the shallow vibe.
Jillian (00:39:01):
Yeah. And I don’t love the term who, like who you’re attracting. It’s who you’re choosing. Mm-Hmm. You’re gonna, you’re gonna attract lots of different types of people. Mm-Hmm. Right. Who you actually choose. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
Brad (00:39:16):
Oh, can you give a corollary for what is the women are attracted to the bad boy and the men are attracted to the,
Jillian (00:39:26):
The broken bird.
Brad (00:39:27):
Oh.
Jillian (00:39:29):
So this is, I mean, we’re, just to be clear for your audience, we’re not talking about all men and women. We’re just talking about, it’s in terms of Yeah. The,
Brad (00:39:37):
That’s very literative. We have the bad boy and the broken bird.
Jillian (00:39:41):
Yes, it is, it is, it’s where I’m speaking in archetypes. The, the woman who is kind of a mess, and, and her, what draws him to her is her vulnerability. Just like what draws the woman to the bad boy is the fact he can protect me. And so what draws the man to the broken bird is her vulnerability. And so there’s a real femininity in that, but it’s like vulnerability. Then what happens, what’s really happening is that she’s a mess. She, she doesn’t know how to take care of herself. There’s constant drama. So if he gets pulled into her drama and thinks I can be the hero that rescues her. It’s all about his ego. It’s all about significance. It’s, I know what’s best for her. I can be the one, I can be her father figure this is unconscious.
Brad (00:40:40):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, It’s one of the deepest human biological drives. Um, yes. I mean, John Gray talks about this a lot with the Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, Mars and Venus, the, the man wants to be the hero in the story.
Jillian (00:40:54):
Yes. And that’s totally fine, but you don’t wanna go for the broken bird because she’s the one who’s gonna, you’ll never be happy with her.
Brad (00:41:05):
So it’s, I guess that hard work comes with extricating from not only biological drives from the, from the primitive brain, but also the programming that we’ve had, like you said, from Hollywood, from past immature, youthful relationships, all that kind of thing.
Jillian (00:41:22):
And, and priorities and self-worth. It’s like, okay, I wanna be with, I don’t, you know, if I, if some, if this is you, you know, again, unconscious, if people don’t feel like they have value, they’ll figure out a way to be needed. And so to the broken bird, she needs me. She’ll never leave me Uhhuh. She needs me. I’m always gonna be the hero. At
Brad (00:41:50):
Least I got that going for me.
Jillian (00:41:51):
At least I got that going. Yeah, exactly. And, and women do this too with men. And also this is, this happens all the time in same sex relationships. A lot of women will play the therapist, you know, and then she has the man crying on her shoulder and whatnot, and she’s like, okay, he needs me. He’s opening up to me. It’s, and then, and, and then it’s like, well, no, you don’t want him who wants, like, you know, a grown man crying about his mom on your shoulder. Like, that’s okay if that happens in an intense moment of vulnerable moment. But you want that all the time. So you’re like, you’re his therapist? That’s not good.
Brad (00:42:36):
Right. So how do we move past that, on both sides?
Jillian (00:42:39):
Again, it’s just noticing what everyone, it’s like if something is not working in your relationships, you have to identify what the pattern is. Mm-Hmm. How are you choosing people? What are the types of people you’re choosing? Why are you choosing them? And then learning the steps to choose differently.
Brad (00:42:58):
A bit ago we were talking about the, you, you’re coaching people that are seeking long-term, fulfilling monogamous relationship. And I wonder today, because we don’t have to no longer have to conform to these rigid and dated ideals, we can free, be free to live our lives and, and choose whoever we wanna love and, and whatever we wanna do with our life, we can choose out. We can do, um, you know, serial, short-term flings. Do you feel like there’s a individuality to this where for some people maybe they can live happily ever after from ages 50 to 90 doing a succession of two-month or six-month relationships? Or do you think when we see some of these patterns, are they just covering up for what we all want?
Jillian (00:43:48):
I think that there are a lot of people, specifically after the age of 60, who find themselves single, who think life is better single. And I’m perfectly content that way. I rarely see that in people under the age of 60. Oh. but or under the age of 55 mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But I mean, it happens. Look, I to each their own, to each their own, I think the greatest spiritual growth happens in a relationship, in a monogamous relationship. That’s where I think the biggest spiritual group growth happens. Yeah. But I think that there are people, especially in their older years, who really are happy not being in a relationship. More power to them.
Brad (00:44:40):
Yeah. It could be from relationship fatigue and, um, you know, they’ve ready for the smoke,
Jillian (00:44:47):
Maybe had a few marriages or a few relationships in, they’re done that, and now they’re, they’re, maybe they’re, they’re now they’re married to their work or a different project or a different chapter of their life.
Brad (00:44:59):
I wonder, does research validate this where the average 25-year-old is possibly due to programming, whatever, but predominantly looking for that long-term partnership average 35-year-old, Whatever.
Jillian (00:45:15):
I don’t think it’s programming that people are looking for long-term partnership. I think that’s what’s biology.
Brad (00:45:21):
Yeah. Okay.
Jillian (00:45:22):
I think that people want to live their lives with someone and to love someone. And, um, yes, I, there is some programming, but being in a, being, wanting to be in a relationship is just wanting connection and love,
Brad (00:45:39):
Which <laugh> most of us would agree. That’s a good thing.
Jillian (00:45:43):
Yes, it is a good thing. Yeah. There’s nothing, but there’s no need to pathologize someone wanting to be in a relationship.
Brad (00:45:51):
Right, right.
Jillian (00:45:52):
You know, it’s a healthy, normal thing. But I like to help, particularly women who have this problem where they don’t feel like their lives can, they have a hard time finding meaning and purpose and fulfillment in their lives unless they are in a relationship. And I think that is not good. Mm-Hmm.
Brad (00:46:12):
<affirmative>.
Jillian (00:46:13):
And that’s where the programming comes in, which is, I’m not worthy if I’m not in a relationship by the time I’m a certain age, you know. I’m single. Something’s wrong with me. And I think that, you know, your greatest leverage as a single person who wants a relationship is enjoying your own company and enjoying the life that you have built. That one day will be some, a life that you invite someone to join. Hmm. That’s your greatest leverage.
Brad (00:46:47):
Wow. I also heard you make a interesting distinction about countering the, the common advice that you, you need to completely love yourself fully before you go looking for a relationship. And you said not quite.
Jillian (00:47:05):
Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, there’s two camps. One that says you have to love yourself in order to be in a relationship. And one that says you don’t. You learn how to love yourself through relationship. And it’s definitely, in my view to both it’s, and hmm. People who really struggle to love themselves, who have low self-esteem, they’re gonna struggle in relationships. They just are. So, or the, or, or the, you know, there isn’t a single person out there who’s been in a relationship in which someone has emotionally, verbally, psychologically and/or physically abused them that loved themselves. So we can’t dismiss self-love, but this idea that we have to fall in love with ourselves in order to be ready for a relationship is ridiculous because we learn to love ourselves when someone is actually loving us very selfishly. We learn to love ourselves when we step up in a relationship and communicate when normally we would wanna run and hide. Hmm. You know, we learn like we have to get into the ring of life and we have to get into the ring of a relationship and we have to figure it out when we’re there. And we learn to love ourselves more. But again, like I said, there are people whose self-worth is so low that they are really struggling in their love lives. So it, we can’t say it’s a non-issue either.
Brad (00:48:36):
Yeah. I wonder if people are falling for this nonsense and taking it to the extreme of narcissism, which is also a word that gets bantered out about a lot. And if I scroll through social media, I see people that are, you know, so enamored with their own personal achievements or whatever, is that kind of, uh, probably messing with, uh, payer bonding and things that we’ve seen be a natural part of life for a long time?
Jillian (00:49:05):
I think that, so there’s two people, types of people. There’s the people who are, who tolerate a lot of mistreatment and they tolerate, they’re the people who either tolerate mistreatment or they’re, they’re constantly chasing the people who are always going to reject them. And those people with their lower self-worth need to learn how to actually make themselves the central character of their story. But everyone else, we have a little bit of a main character story, main character of our story syndrome, which is just like, everything is me, me, me, I, a high eye. And, um, that’s just not, you know, to be in a relationship means that you are willing to merge part of your being with another human being. And so that you become a we, you become a we you. And so you choose wisely. ’cause you’re choosing to be someone’s ally there. You’re choosing to be their, their partner in crime in life. And so you gotta choose wisely.
Brad (00:50:18):
Do the chemicals actually get in the way? Yes. Ask those hard questions like the, the few that you mentioned a while ago, and how can we extricate from that? Should we have a moratorium against physical intimacy for six months while we keep peppering them with more questions about their, their hopes and dreams in life and things like that?
Jillian (00:50:37):
I think it’s not about peppering questions. I do think it’s about abstaining from sex, if, you know, ’cause sex complicates things. So if you are someone who is determined to choose a better, choose better than you have, and to really break some patterns. My suggestion is get to know someone on a profound level before you take it to sex and playing house with each other. Hmm. So before you’re having sleepovers, before you’re going on vacations together, before you’re like, yeah, before you’re doing all that stuff, get to know the person. Go slow.
Brad (00:51:27):
And do you have any tips logistically? Like, can we, can we take a long hike and get that done? Or a lingering over dinner for three hours instead of one?
Jillian (00:51:36):
Yeah. Or just, you know, yeah, spend time together, ask really important questions. Like tell me about the last time you stayed up all night, like, what was happening or, you know, tell me about the last time you were really proud of yourself, what was going on? Like, people don’t, like I said, people don’t have the best social skills and they don’t really ask the best questions. And I think that we, um, you know, and we also, like, we also learn about a lot about a person just by observing how they treat their family, how they treat their friends, how they treat the waiter.
Jillian (00:52:22):
So I think like if you’re really trying to break a pattern, and this is, and obviously like everyone takes, can take this with a grain of salt, but if I’ve worked, if I’m working with someone who’s repeatedly been hurt or they’ve ever been in anything abusive, you better believe like we’re, it’s like really, really going slow, like build a friendship with this person first. But yeah, chemicals do they completely and utterly get in the way. And I think that it’s a really good practice to not go there until you really get to know someone and, and you get, and, and you not just get to know them, but they really get a chance to get to know you. And you really bond, you, you, you develop an emotional bond and then you take, I mean, this is the complete reverse of how people usually do it. <laugh>, but that’s what I’m suggesting. This is what I’m suggesting. .
Brad (00:53:22):
Yeah. It seems like another example of overcoming our biology and our primitive brain. Yeah. To have a better life than, you know, um, than great grandfather who knocked up somebody and that was the family tree right there without the, the single thought or had an arranged marriage or whatever stuff that we’re, we are thinking we can do better today.
Jillian (00:53:42):
Yes. Because that’s the reality. We are not, we are not primitive. Like we do have a primitive brain and we do, we are, you know, you could argue we are animals, but, um, actually we’re not monkeys. <laugh>, We’ve evolved. We’ve evolved. So we’re actually not, we have a, we have a higher, we have a higher, higher mind, which is part of our consciousness, which means that we can actually choose things. We can choose. We are not driven just by instinct. So there is, we are different from animals. And so yes, that’s, you don’t have to do that. But the thing is, most people, they sleep together and then they get to know each other. And sometimes that works. Oftentimes people get hurt and end up in relationships that don’t work.
Brad (00:54:37):
Yeah. And it’s kind of a free for all today, perhaps more so than any other time where you actually have tremendous opportunity to just go around and act upon your animal instincts in a variety of ways.
Jillian (00:54:51):
Yes. And one thing is that, you know what, speaking about just, um, heterosexual women who date men, you know, one thing about men that men don’t even realize about themselves is that really, really bothers women.
Brad (00:55:07):
Ooh. Nuggets at the end, people.
Jillian (00:55:10):
Yeah. So men, when they like someone, most men will go into a deep hunting mode. They’ll pursue and they’ll hunt and they’ll pursue. And women love that. It’s like, if we’re like, attracted to you and you’re pursuing us, we’re like, oh my God, this really, you know, like, we love it. We love it. But there’s something that happens. Whereas as soon as then the man is able to sleep with her, even if he doesn’t entirely lose interest, he relaxes and stops pursuing. And this is a very, very, and I don’t think he’s conscious of this. I think this is him operating from his biology, because he’s gotten it. He hunted, he got the kill, he got it. So now he can chill. And the woman is just like, what the hell? Now that you slept with me, you don’t care. And so it’s a very, very painful thing for a woman to go through because then she starts to feel used and you, and this is when she starts to then try to, you know, chase him and please him and try to get him to pursue again. And she just tries to do everything now. So there’s two things, and this is what I teach men all the time, who, who do this. One for them to be aware of this and that if they are going to pursue a woman, like, and, and he really does like her, once you sleep with her, you are not allowed to get lazy. That’s when you have to actually up the ante,
Brad (00:56:43):
Double down, man, double down.
Jillian (00:56:45):
That’s when you have to double down. And I teach women if he’s gonna get lazy after sleeping with you, you need to pull away and you need to just say, and, and it’s not, not to play games, but you need to know your value. But we could get rid of all of this, all of this if we didn’t actually sleep together so quickly and actually formed a really, really deep bond. So like that act of sex, the intercourse isn’t really like I’ve con, you know, for the man I’ve conquered and killed and I’ve gone, it’s like, oh my God, this is not a conquering like we’ve been this is something that the two of us have been talking about working towards, building towards. So the relationship has already been built in many ways before you actually go there. I am not saying this is easy, I am just saying that the people I know and who I’ve coached who’ve done this have much more success than the people who don’t. And so these are just some of the things to be aware of.
Brad (00:57:55):
Yeah. You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re having icing on the cake now rather than, you know, the hunt for the big game.
Jillian (00:58:05):
Yeah. And you know what, and, and building that kind of sexual tension is actually very exciting.
Brad (00:58:10):
Yeah. I would argue that the payoff is much higher and more longer lasting than Yes. A series of conquests or a single conquest. And then, you know, a disillusioning of the, of, of the, uh, the relationship itself. So,
Jillian (00:58:25):
And then you get rid of, you weeded out the people who are not actually that interested in you beyond wanting to have sex with. Well,
Brad (00:58:33):
That too. I forgot about that part side bonus
Jillian (00:58:37):
All by the wayside. Yeah.
Brad (00:58:40):
Wow. Like I mentioned at the outset, it, you know, an hour with you is probably equivalent to like 20 therapy sessions, in my opinion. I mean, I, I really mean that. ’cause it’s, you, you clearly show so much experience and so much insight and there’s never been a dull moment here. So I’m gonna urge all my listeners to, to play this show twice. And also maybe you can tell us how we can get connected with you and get, get ready people fasten your seatbelt. Here we go.
Jillian (00:59:10):
Well, I really, I appreciate the compliments and the kind words and I’m very, very grateful. So thank you. Basically you just need to know my first and last name, Jillian Turecki. You can find me on Instagram at Jillian Tureck. My website is JillianTurecki.com. I’m also on TikTok and other social media platforms. And then my podcast Jillian on Love.
Brad (00:59:33):
Fantastic. Highly, highly recommended. And, um, maybe we will, we’ll catch up again when I prepare another 20 questions going further down the road with all these great concepts, but so much to learn. Thank you so much, Jillian Turecki.
Jillian (00:59:48):
Thank you so much for having me.
Brad (00:59:51):
That’s a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to the B.rad Podcast. We appreciate all feedback and suggestions. Email, podcast@bradventures.com and visit brad kears.com to download five free eBooks and learn some great long cuts to a longer life. How to optimize testosterone naturally, become a dark chocolate connoisseur and transition to a barefoot and minimalist shoe lifestyle.
