What a tremendous pleasure to join Gabby Reece in person at her home in Malibu and spend some wonderful time going deep on this podcast, which is her specialty.

I am a long-time fan of Gabby and her popular podcast, the Gabby Reece show, and one of the best attributes about it is how the show manages to cut through all the fluff that we engage in sometimes, and she always gets really deep insights from her guests while also offering up some herself. Gabby is also an author (I love her book My Foot Is Too Big For the Glass Slipper), a former professional volleyball player and model, a mom, an entrepreneur, and a beacon of hope (just wait until you hear what she says at the end of this show). In this episode we talk about a few different topics, touching on relationships, particularly the give and take and dynamics of her long-time marriage to Laird Hamilton, and it was great to hear her perspective and experiences regarding the reality of sustaining a long-time relationship—the challenges, the high points, and the nice middle points where you’re just existing in peace and making yourself a better person, and becoming a better person, through this healthy, authentic, open relationship. We also talk about recalibrating fitness and athletic/peak performance goals as you go through the years and seasons of life, parenting, and so much more.

TIMESTAMPS:

How did Gabby get going with her own podcast show? [03:36]

Gabby and Laird’s podcast is a good example of couple communication. No improvising. Nothing but respect for one another. [12:01]

Taking care of your body can be done at any age.  Never too late! [[18:00]

You need a certain amount of consistency in your life. As partners they help each other balance life. [22:07]

Parenting is a moving target.  Often you have to parent each kid differently, even though the kids may expect that everything should be the same.  [29:03]

With advice being to listen to your kid, what do you do if they don’t talk? [35:47]

In the area of sport, life has been accelerated. Let the coaches deal with those lessons, and the parent is there to deal with life lessons…human lessons. [41:26]

Never compare yourself to your past self. You may have hit your miracle and now you look ahead. [54:01]

Feel good about how you go out into the world.  Just being polite is a gift to others. [57:02]

Gabby’s regimen doesn’t include fasting and she makes sure she eats enough protein. [01:02:23]

Forty percent of restaurant calories come from seed oils. [01:07:33]

It is difficult, in today’s world, not to feel overwhelmed. Take baby steps to find balance. [01:09:40]

LINKS:

• Brad Kearns.com
• Brad’s Shopping page
• My Foot is Too Big for the Glass Slipper   
• Brad’s First Simpler Morning Routine
• Brad’s Morning Routine Course
• Gabrielle Reece Wikipedia
• Gabby Reece Podcast
• Gabby Reece on Instagram

LISTEN: 

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (00:00:50):
Gabby Reese people, the one and only. What a tremendous pleasure to join her in person at her home in Malibu. Spend some wonderful time going deep on this podcast, which is her specialty. And I’m a longtime fan. I love her. Gabby Reese show, her very popular podcast. And one of the best attributes about it is just cutting through a lot of the fluff that we engage in sometimes and getting some deep insights from the guest offering up those herself. Same with her books. Like, My Foot Is Too Big For The Glass Slipper. Love that book. Published long time ago. But of course, this is the international fitness celebrity supermodel, former professional volleyball player, Supermom, entrepreneur, and, and beacon of hope, as you’ll see with her Wonderful ending to the show. Love, kindness, reflection. That’s what she’s all about. I know you’re gonna love this show.

Brad (00:01:53):
What do we talk about? We talked about all kinds of things. We talked about parenting. We talked about recalibrating fitness and athletic and peak performance goals as you go through the years and seasons of life. We talked about relationships, and particularly the give and take and the dynamics of her longtime marriage with world famous waterman, Laird Hamilton, former podcast guest. Can’t wait to get ’em on again. And they have so many great shows together and it’s something that I wanted to ask her about and how that flows wonderfully into everyday life. And, um, it was great to hear about the challenges, the high points, and then that nice middle point where you’re just existing in peace and making yourself a better person, becoming a better person through a healthy, open, authentic relationships. So, so much more. I think you’re gonna love Gabby here she is.

Gabby (00:02:49):
Yeah. Like we have an expression in our house. Small things to a giant,

Brad (00:02:53):
Small things to a giant.

Gabby (00:02:55):
Yeah. It was told to me by a friend who was seven feet tall. It was great. All right. And do you, do you know about Ben Wallace from the

Brad (00:03:01):
Detroit Pistons? Wallace Piston,

Gabby (00:03:03):
Remember? Yeah. He had told my friend cuz they were talking about a hassle. My friend was, uh, he plays in the nba, he’s seven feet. He was going to say that he couldn’t play for France in the Olympics cuz he had hurt himself. Yeah. And he plays, you know, at that time for an NBA team. And I was like, Hey, you know, good luck with this. I know the country will be disappointed. And he goes, and the words of Ben Wallace

Brad (00:03:21):
Small Things too.

Gabby (00:03:22):
And I thought if we could just be the metaphoric giant all the time in our lives

Brad (00:03:26):
All the time.

Gabby (00:03:26):
Yeah. I mean it was interesting coming from a seven foot person, but I thought really what it really means, So

Brad (00:03:31):
Yeah. Small things for a giant, You know, Mark Bell’s podcast? You’ve been on that I,

Gabby (00:03:35):
I haven’t been on, but I know,

Brad (00:03:36):
Um, they like just kick in and you’re recording. Okay. And you don’t even realize it. Right. So I think that small things to a giant actually represented the start of our podcast. Perfect. Rather than, Hey, it’s Gabby Reese, we’re back on. And it’s a fantastic privilege to be here. Okay. So I wanna hear about the Gabby Reese show. This is a, Oh, you’re going straight, relatively recent, um, foray. I know you did the podcast in the sauna, the equipment got hot, you had to put it out the door. That was good fun. Mm-hmm. with Neil Strauss. So what was your, um, inclination to get going?

Gabby (00:04:09):
Well, I, I, to be honest, I did not wanna do a podcast alone. I, um, typically I was doing, interviewing people through with television and that’s just a very different median so that you, it’s quick and short and so you can really easily showcase somebody, but it’s not really about you. So I always felt like that was an easier one to do, to organize for myself. And so when I did the first one with Neil, I thought that would be a good balance cuz I, I sort of felt like, uh, you know, maybe I would have 10 really good shows in me and then I would be boring after that. So I never really wanted to do it alone. Yeah. So I it’s been about two years, a little bit over two years. Yeah. And, um, you know, I’m just Right. Rolling with it, trying to be prepared and, uh, be honest. Do it the way that I do it and, uh, and learn from it and, and, and trust. I think that’s the whole thing whenever you do something like that, it’s just knowing that you do it a specific way mm-hmm. it doesn’t mean you can’t grow and change that way, but still stay, you know, stay focused on how you would do it. Not look around and, uh,

Brad (00:05:14):
,

Gabby (00:05:14):
You know, think, Oh, I should do it like that. Like them.

Brad (00:05:17):
Yeah, I hear you. It’s sort of, you have a tendency to do that, uh, you know, look around in all in all ways of life, you know? Yeah. And, um, then you gotta come back to, you know, your, your baseline. So when you say the way that you do it, what does that mean to you? Like, how would you describe

Gabby (00:05:37):
I think I have a more conversational style. I am trying to extract information or takeaways for the audience so that at some point there’s sort of like a value proposition. Nothing crazy. I’m not here to hit you over the head mm-hmm. with things. And really the value will be determinant upon who’s listening and what they want and need. Mm-hmm. . So I’m not gonna even say where it is, is mm-hmm. because it might be in something for me where I’m, I don’t think it’s a big deal and someone’s like, Oh, they said this and it was amazing. Yeah. And, uh, but it’s just making sure there’s enough humanness, even if I’m speaking to a scientist or a doctor Yeah. Coupled with information that seems achievable or, you know, like someone can understand it. And, um, the idea that whatever we’re talking about in, in some way it could support somebody in a positive way without being, um, you know, overly precious. Like, Oh, we really wanna support you. I don’t mean it that way. Yeah. Cause I don’t, I don’t, I’m not a particularly good big fan of that. It’s just more that that’s sort of the intention. It would be like seeing a friend mm-hmm. , that you were either rejuvenated, refreshed, informed, inspired, something, and then you go on your day.

Brad (00:06:46):
Yeah. Yeah. Um, what I really appreciate is you have this unique ability to like, go deep kind of outta nowhere and then, and pull back and have a regular podcast. And then, and I was compelled to write you, like you’re talking to Ben Greenfield and talk, he’s talking about one thing or another. And then, you know, you come up with these like challenge questions to throw everybody off, including the listener cuz we’re so used to kind of, um, you know, the talking points or what have you. And, um, when I first met you, you did that in real life at the restaurant. We were talking for like three minutes and then we’re walking out. But like I’m walking out with, with Sisson into the parking lot, I’m like, Wow, there’s some pretty heavy parenting insights there that are gonna really, you know, I’m gonna think about ’em for a long time. But that’s just kind of your nature, I think.

Gabby (00:07:31):
Yeah. I think by the nature of how I grew up, I grew up in the Caribbean and, and, um, I just, I didn’t learn. I mean, I wa if in a way maybe it’s a good thing we didn’t have a lot of, uh, protocol. Mm. I had a freewheeling, I mean, for a while. Um, I didn’t live with either one of my parents and then when I did, they were, you know, with my mom, it’s, it was sort of all over the map, so I wasn’t really told how I was supposed to be. Mm-hmm. . And so I think, um, living on a, in a small town like an island, there’s a sort of a direct communication. I actually think that’s one of the things that really links Laird and I, I mean, he takes it to a whole other level, but, um, I think for me it’s, well, like, what are we talking about? And I won’t try to hide. Mm-hmm. . And maybe that’s the other thing is I’m not really interested in hiding. Um, but I, and, and conversely though I don’t wanna grow people, if that makes sense. Uhhuh . So it’s not about grilling someone or getting in there for the sake of getting in there, but if it seems like, Oh, this, this, there’s something poignant here, or it makes sense or it fits, then just go ahead and get involved.

Brad (00:08:36):
Yeah. And, um, I think, you know, there’s, there’s pushback sometimes when there should be, when someone’s kind of trying to paint a pretty picture. I mean, the title of your book, The Your Foot is Too Big, My Foot’s Too Big For the Glass Slipper kind of, um, expresses that really nicely where it’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. Mm-hmm. . Yeah.

Gabby (00:08:57):
Well, I also, I do that selfishly because I know that I can’t, um, live up to a sort of a picture that is painted as perfect. Yeah. Or like knowing something or, um, having figured something out, uh, or being ageless or any of that. It’s impossible. So I learned that a long time ago that I was, I wasn’t gonna pretend that mm-hmm. . Um, and what’s what’s sort of liberating about that is also then that is not the expectation when you see me. So I have friends, for example, that are in the, in, um, you know, their, they have podcasts or they have shows and they have these images or what have you, and people want them to be shiny and perfect. Mm-hmm. and like all of that. I, people are not coming to me for that clearly. And so I

Brad (00:09:43):
You’ve already set them up to

Gabby (00:09:45):
Well, and I don’t have to pretend.

Brad (00:09:47):
Right. Yeah.

Gabby (00:09:48):
To know or to throw a party with all the perfect everything with my hair and makeup perfect, like, I don’t, I just, I’d rather be learning or training or mm-hmm. getting down to brass tacks mm-hmm. , um, and, and, and sort of maybe I have a certain amount of experience that I can share that maybe seems like I know certain things mm-hmm. , but that’s the only way I really wanted to get couched. Not as like, I know.

Brad (00:10:16):
Yeah. And interestingly, that’s kind of been your world though, as an athlete, everything’s on public presentation for you from a long time, all the things you’ve done. Yeah. Right. So you’re like

Gabby (00:10:26):
Almost 35 years.

Brad (00:10:27):
You’re resisting it successfully because otherwise you get sucked in tomorrow at the next photo shoot or whatever public event. Yeah.

Gabby (00:10:35):
Well, I, you know, and I don’t, I always say that I’m, I’m not, not thoughtful or screwed about it or calculated mm-hmm. . So even within sort of say residing to like, Hey, I’m not gonna upkeep that, that was also a very sort of calculated decision mm-hmm. maybe for this idea of could I be around a really long time if I do have the right strategy and I’m playing by the right rules for me. Yeah. And I think that that’s, um, maybe the route I chose. And, and having said that, sometimes that route is, you know, harder for different reasons or you’re never going to get sort of at a certain level of status and noise. But what you might be able to do is kind of go along and have professional choices and, um, opportunities, but at a, just at a different pace and scale.

Brad (00:11:29):
Right. I gotcha. And that’s great because you’re gonna be supporting that or okay with it.

Gabby (00:11:37):
Yeah. I mean, and it’s also, it is what it is. It’s like knowing who you are and if you’re sort of playing in that in this world, um, it’s understanding, well, what part are you? And, um, I just would never be good at the, like, certain people can really, you know, go, go big, big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that takes an unusual amount of effort and and, um, and I, I just don’t know that I have the interest for that.

Brad (00:12:01):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you talked about your communication style with Laird and you’ve done numerous shows with him. So all the listeners can like Eavesdrop and see this very real conversation. I think it has a lot of value because I think even with, uh, you know, intimate relationship dynamics, a lot of times there’s smoke screens and there’s programming that comes out. So it’s not real and authentic. It’s, it’s theatrical. Mm-hmm. . And so you guys seem to be, have developed a skill to, to get past that and, um,

Gabby (00:12:33):
Do you mean amongst the people or if we’re presenting it in the, in like these sort of conversations or both?

Brad (00:12:39):
Well, it, it seems like you guys are just talking and I happen to be in the other room listening and then I, I move closer so I can hear everything instead of a manufactured like, Hi, it’s Couples, Couples Talk podcast this episode 14 with Laird and Gabby Yeah. You know, it’s more like, hey, um, it’s, it’s an open door to, you know, relationship dynamics.

Gabby (00:13:00):
I think even within that, there is a, a little bit of experience in knowing how to reveal everything and protect maybe a few of the sacred spots, if you will.

Brad (00:13:12):
And I mean, you said it during the shows too.

Gabby (00:13:14):
Yeah. So

Brad (00:13:15):
I think the stuff you, you don’t, we don’t need to mention those details, but Right. So here’s what you need to learn about that. Yeah.

Gabby (00:13:21):
Yeah. So I think, uh, we both have a decent amount of experience separately as people who’ve been interviewed . Um, and then together, we’ve been together for quite a while, um, that we have a knack at this point for going for it. Yeah. And just having these conversations, because then what happens I think is if you do that long enough, you trust that and you also know that, um, you can’t worry about what you sound like. Mm-hmm. Cause that takes away from what you’re really thinking and feeling. . Yeah. And all you can do is share your, the, you know, your feelings or your truth or your experience. Yeah. Especially when you talk about a nuanced and very personal thing, like a relationship. Yeah. And, um, and however people take it or value that they get from it, that that’ll sort of be up to them

Brad (00:14:11):
. Yeah. And it also seems like I, I would assume there’s like a seamless transition back into real life because the interview was so authentic. You know, you’re not gonna like push pause and then say, Hey, why did you say that? I might, my feelings were hurt. Because you might say it on the during

Gabby (00:14:28):
I, I would say it then for sure. Cause it would be Laird hurting probably my feelings. I don’t know that I’m, I would hurt his feeling. I’m kidding. But also I’m very careful, especially if he’s generous enough to come onto the podcast. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I sort of feel protective or, and, and listen, I’m with somebody that the notion is it’s sort of understood that we, we, the hope is that we will honor each other. Mm-hmm. and I say that like really lightly, but, um, it’s sort of like the silent demand both ways is mm-hmm. like ho you know, hopefully you, you think it’s important to honor me.

Brad (00:15:01):
Right, Right.

Gabby (00:15:02):
Because, you know, and conversely, Yeah. So it’s an interesting, we, we’ve said this many times that we’re both sort of in certain ways so too mean to fight. And um, Ooh.

Brad (00:15:13):
That that could be a, a pull quote for the, you’re too mean to

Gabby (00:15:16):
Fight. Yeah. You can’t, you just can’t afford it. Right. And so he calls it like the Cold War, like we’re just doing this, we’ve done this for 27 years. Yeah. Um, because really I think it’s my reverence for Laird, and I picked that word probably carefully, that is sort of helps me stay in my better self mm-hmm. . Um, and it’s, he’s not enforcing anything on his side. He’s not saying, Oh, you better not talk to me or do that, or whatever. But it’s really understood and I don’t need to poke the bear to know that the bear has, is capable. And so I think that, um, that has been actually a natural sort of guardrail for our relationship is that both of us are pretty, pretty tough in a certain way. That the others like, Ugh, I don’t even, I don’t need to deal with that.

Gabby (00:16:04):
I’ll just be my best self. I’ll be nicer and I’ll be of service to the dynamic. And, and also you get inspired if I look at this person who I live with, who’s show I, I know is really showing up and showing up for the girls and just trying, it inspires me to say like, Oh, well what could I do better also? So let me be clear. It’s both, it’s like this weird mix and match of being inspired and just a little like, Oh, I don’t wanna deal with them cuz they’re too so gnarly. It’s

Brad (00:16:32):
A lovely blend of both of those.

Gabby (00:16:34):
And I think that’s how, when we joke about humans like, you know, sticks and carrots, it’s like, I actually kind of think that most of us are not really too far away from that. And I would put myself in that pile of like, you know, I say this about training. It isn’t that I want to train all the time. It’s, I understand the importance of it. So I just created an environment for myself to be successful. I’m not better. I’m not like, yay. So it’s the same with the relationship. I’m not better at it than someone else. I’ve just, I’m in a partnership that helps me be successful.

Brad (00:17:05):
Uhhuh, . Mm-hmm. , that’s a secret to a lot of things. But I like the fitness analogy cuz you gotta set yourself up with whatever it is, an appointment with the trainer and the most, the most basic example.

Gabby (00:17:17):
Yeah. Your friends are coming over, they’re gonna be here at 8:30, so you better have the thing written and ready to roll and you, because I could get lost in, you know, 40 other emails or whatever. So I think it’s, that’s always felt really important for people to remember. It’s, it’s, it’s being honest with yourself, knowing where you’re going to, you could really fall off and saying, What system do I put in place so I can be successful? And that’s, that’s all it did. It isn’t, Oh well it’s easy for her. It’s not easy for me. Yeah. And actually, and you know this, the longer you do something, sometimes you’re like, seriously, I’m still doing this. You know, it’s not like, you know, this has been a long time for me. And so, and I see it in Laird too. Like sometimes he’s like, I’m just not inspired to bang iron. I go, I get it. Mm-hmm.

Brad (00:18:00):
. Mm-hmm. . Um, well if you transcend that, that I think is the ideal where I talk about my morning exercise routine. I love it. It’s a centerpiece of my life. It’s been all these wonderful benefits. Do I, am I motivated and really excited to jump in every day? I don’t even, I don’t even ask the question. Yeah. Cause the question doesn’t matter. It’s just a habit, you know, like, um, but it’s, it’s hard to get there because there’s so many stumbling blocks along the way, you know? Yeah.

Gabby (00:18:28):
Or if you’re beat up or you’re tired. Yeah. Like that is part of the deal too, is all these repetitive motions, at some point you are beat up and you’re just like, Oh. And so it’s also a management and work uhhuh sort of proposition. Yeah. You’re like, I’m managing my body, I’m working hard, I’m trying to add things. I’m trying to learn new things so I can keep improving and uh, you know, I have this hurts or that hurts and things like that. So I think it’s like this constant dance, Uhhuh, . Um, that’s why I, I sort of enjoy, like, I have friends that are a little bit older and um, none of their joints are beat up because they came to it late. Right. Like, they started at 40 and they’re sort of doing this and that. And I go, That’s odometer. It’s amazing. . Yeah.

Brad (00:19:11):
Yeah. I, I wonder like the masters track people that I now am obsessed with, cuz I wanna race in the 55 plus and these guys are like ripping the track apart mm-hmm. Running some guy in Australia runs a 52 8, which would be Oaks Christian, varsity mile relay anchor man. And he is 57 years old. I’m like, how the hell, you know? But I’m wondering like, did he start at 40? Yeah. And just put the gas on and doesn’t have the,

Gabby (00:19:36):
And why not tear? And I think that sometimes I think it’s like front loaded or and loaded or you don’t know. And I think that’s another important thing is any athlete will tell you, and I don’t mean they have to be a professional athlete, just any person who has dedicated some real time to something, there is a real and significant price to pay for that. And you know, it’s worth it. All the life lessons, putting yourself in these really difficult situations. Um, kind of honoring your ability to work hard and if you’re competing or all these things. There’s so ma so many rich things that come out of it. But there is a very big price to pay for it. And so I think sometimes people who are less active that are like, I don’t wanna work out, I don’t have time to work out. They also don’t realize that in certain ways they may have an advantage , they might have this sort of fresh body that if they just did a few of the right things Yeah. What they’re eating and they’re sleeping and their movement, that they might feel pretty darn good their whole life.

Brad (00:20:36):
Uh, they could also, um, double their strength in six weeks. Whereby That’s right. Uh, we are not capable of Yeah. We’re going for 4% in a year, whatever mm-hmm. . So

Gabby (00:20:44):
It is, we’re trying not to lose the 1% and gain like 2% or 3%. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it’s, you know, you can look at things a million ways.

Brad (00:20:53):
Uh, what other prices do you feel like I, I know we have the artificial joints as a price mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , maybe that extra hour of every day that you could have done more, more social media scrolling, but uh, you know, like what other things do you feel like

Gabby (00:21:08):
Sometimes maybe I, I could see Laird does not suffer from this, because I always say Laird is really an artist who expresses one of the ways he expresses himself is physically. So he has a really flexible psychology in a certain way, way more. I think for me, I fight that, um, sports could have also added in sort of this framework for just always pushing into things and driving into things. And you really can’t do that as well in relationships. Mm-hmm. , um, or with so many things in life. And I have to fight the urge because it’s maybe in some ways it’s safer, Right? It’s all, it’s calculated. Mm-hmm. , it’s like, okay, we’ve gotta get this done and here’s a checklist and you know, let’s, and I already have that tendency in my personality.

Brad (00:21:54):
So you’re drawn to athletics and now you have to tone it down in all way down the other areas,

Gabby (00:21:59):
Way down. So I think that marriage and children have been really a great classroom for me. Yeah. To, um,

Brad (00:22:07):
You can’t win your parenting competition, right?

Gabby (00:22:10):
No. And you can’t expect your kids to lean into things the way you do. Like, well, we’re all doing, it’s like, Yeah, no, they’re not all doing that . And so this

Brad (00:22:20):
Is where I like it when Gabby pushes back on people that, that profess otherwise. Oh, I love it. Yeah

Gabby (00:22:24):
And I, you know, I’ve learned, I’ve learned this and I’ve said this, you know, um, I’m friendly with Byron Katie and Katie’s like, you know, the hammer, you hammer down, hammer through and it’s gotten you very far, but now it’s time to wash the windows. It’s like, so when they talk about tools and needing new tools, I think my children are the windows. It’s like, am I relationship with Laird? It’s like, this is a, this is a complex and, and fragile and strong relationship that, um, and you’re inspired by the love that you feel for them. It’s natural to go, Wow, this is really uncomfortable. Um, and I’ll take a look at that. And I think, so for me that sort of, let’s say the last 20 years has really been, um, an opportunity for me to kind of observe some of those patterns mm-hmm. and, um, see if I can, you know, uh, resist in the moments, kind of the default.

Brad (00:23:21):
Yeah. Um, so I mean, when, when we’re talking about relationships, we’re trying to hit the most important topics of, of value. Mm-hmm. and, and, and learning. Um, and so you’ve talked plenty about that. I’m also wondering, like, of course there’s fantastic, great times and highlights and popcorn and bubble gum and candy corn. And is there also sort of a medium where things are just, um, maybe mundane and it’s okay. Mm-hmm. . And so you’re hitting some challenges. You’re hitting the high points. And then you also have like the, the sea is flat today in Malibu, we drove by, there’s no waves just to report if anyone’s interested mm-hmm. . Um, and is there to learn is something that, um, Do you have an appreciation for that? Mm-hmm. or are you looking for, You know, I think some relationships are looking for something different. Oh, we fight on purpose, then we have makeup sex, and this kind of thing

Gabby (00:24:11):
Seems I don’t have, I don’t have the wattage for that Laird. My, I, I can’t, I

Brad (00:24:16):
Don’t, can’t. We don’t know. Cause he is married to Gabby.

Gabby (00:24:18):
Oh, you can’t, I can’t even really, I don’t even like to have too many conflicts with people because I, uh, I don’t wanna, I’m very like, economical with my energy. Nice. Yeah, that’s right. So I have a few feelings about it. One is, is that when we, especially if you’re ta I wanted to do a book. Um, I think it was, um, I don’t know if we made the chapter in, um, My Foot’s Too Big. But, uh, the death by domestication , because the routine, Right? Making your bed, brushing your teeth, what’s for dinner? Um, same faces, same location, . Right. Um, so in my house, I’m the person who suffers with that the least. I can grind it out every day and I have to be reminded like, let’s jump the track a little bit. Mm-hmm. . So I, I, I actually, um, because, and that, and so that in itself is a, probably an escape.

Gabby (00:25:12):
Um, but I, so I have a few feelings. One is consi, you need a certain amount of consistency in your life to progress to anything. Mm-hmm. , if you’re running, um, you have to run every day to improve your times. If you’re building a business, there’s certain amount of things that just are gonna have to be happening every single day in order for that thing to grow. Same with physical fitness. You know, it’s like, so weirdly, it’s looking at routine as an opportunity for real true progress. You cannot have it without it. It doesn’t just sort of land in the living room. Mm-hmm. doesn’t mean lucky things don’t happen. Cool calls, cool jobs. That’s not what I mean. And so, um, finding the art, I I can be very artful and sort of meditative that counter gets wiped down every single night at the end of the day, no matter what. Right? Yeah. So where in that is the art, Um, making the bed, not like, Oh, I gotta make the bed. It’s like, okay, let’s do this and do this at a high level. And, uh, and then what do you mean you

Brad (00:26:10):
High level?

Gabby (00:26:10):
Like

Brad (00:26:11):
Do a really good job making them better.

Gabby (00:26:12):
Just do it. Right. Yeah. Do

Brad (00:26:13):
Do things. Have a metaphor for a lot of other mi minor things. Take care of your shit that you have, do,

Gabby (00:26:17):
Do it. Right. Yeah. And so I, I think both Laird and I approached this, I think for him, cuz he’s so, uh, dependent upon weather. He, he has something in his personality where he, the calendar represents that. If you put a date on there, what if something shows up on that date? And then would he not be free to go, to go catch that element? Mm-hmm. , is it, you know, big wind or big waves or what have you. So we we’re always contending with that for Laird mm-hmm. , which is like, how do we, he’s got responsibilities, companies, things like that, but how do we keep this freedom for him mm-hmm. , because this is the thing that makes him who he is. Mm-hmm. . So I think within that, it’s also identifying people, understanding how much of that is going to kill them and zap who they really are.

Gabby (00:27:05):
Mm-hmm. and how do you, you know, create these little rooms and places to make sure. And then other people like me who do it the other way. Who, Okay, I can do it every day and now let’s release the calendar. Let’s release every day. Let’s do something different. Um, so I I, I have definitely have a relationship with, with the mundane and the everyday. Um, and then conversely, I was talking to Laird about, this is like, so for the next, let’s say two years, we’re gonna be in a different kind of pattern than we’ve ever been in, in our lives for one of our daughters to go to school. And it’s like, okay. Certain things every Monday through Friday

Brad (00:27:45):
Rather than bouncing back and forth residences and whatnot. Yeah.

Gabby (00:27:49):
And what it does is it makes me also appreciate having designed a life where there was a more freedom than maybe I realized. And seasonal living, like the days, when the days got short here, we were outta here in Hawaii. Right? Yeah. So I think it’s not only valuing, like this is what we’re doing now and I could see where their landmines are. Yeah. The zapping the soul zapping elements of it. Yeah. And also simultaneously, I’m gonna allow this to help me also appreciate the fact that I haven’t really had to do much of that, nor will I have to in a few years.

Brad (00:28:23):
Sounds very complimentary that you have the surfer looking for the, the swell up and everything drops. And then Yeah. If you’re, if you’re drifting the other way, you guys can e each have, you know, a complimentary element.

Gabby (00:28:38):
Absolutely. I think, you know, that’s one of the dynamics that we can help each other. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, Laird is a, his first sign is a Pisces, which go figure. Mm. And I’m a Capricorn, which is like, you know, beyond grounded uhhuh, it’s to a fault probably. Okay. And so we help each other kind of move around out of those, those more natural tendencies.

Brad (00:29:03):
And so with both of those contributions at play, um, what, what experience do your kids get? Is it like a, is it like they get to choose which one they’re lined up with more or something?

Gabby (00:29:15):
Oh, I’m sure they do actually. Yeah. Of course all kids line up with whoever they’re, you know,

Brad (00:29:20):
At different days. Who

Gabby (00:29:21):
Can I Yeah. Convince? They’re interesting. My youngest daughter and I are born five days apart. We have a lot of similarities. It’s, it’s, uh, , it’s real. I can see how obnoxious I was when I was younger. Um, and uh, just re like, there’s a certain kind of relentless that it’s like, are you serious? And I understand it though. Um, and then my middle daughter is, has an interesting blend, I think of the two of us. But she kind of, I think leans towards Laird’s way of being creative and, and sort of, well, what’s the experience? The younger one and I are like, what’s the checklist? And let’s get the checks on the list. Not, Well, when you read that, was it what you learn? It’s like, whatever, I read it , you know? And until we find things of course that we like, you know? Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I think it’s that. And then the, the oldest sort of is a, is she’s my stepdaughter. And, um, I see her having a, a nice combination of her parents as well.

Brad (00:30:17):
Uh, Do you think that’s innate largely?

Gabby (00:30:20):
Yeah.

Brad (00:30:20):
Right.

Gabby (00:30:21):
I think we can screw our kids up. Mm. You know, a bit, you know. Yeah. Um, but I think we probably have a lot less control. So if they’re like doing really well, let’s say, I wouldn’t be so quick to be like, Yeah, I think you would just say thank you at that point. Yeah.

Brad (00:30:37):
What, what? My son was in this huge basketball journey in high school and the kids were really good. They were 27 and five. They went to State this tiny little school from Northern California. So it was great energy. Right? Yeah. And the parents were deeply involved and the success of the team and playing out all the things that we hear about and like, you know, I, I would notice like my son would score a basket and people in the stands would look at me like, you know, in acknowledgement. Like I didn’t score guys . I fact I got cut from my high school team. So what are you looking at me for? Yeah. But

Gabby (00:31:11):
I think that’s really important.

Brad (00:31:12):
Yeah. And I’m wondering, um, it’s a common top. It’s one of your favorite topics that appears to be the, the parenting thing. And now we have this characterization of culture of the, the helicopter parents has now transitioned to the lawnmower parent. The helicopter was flying over, Right?

Gabby (00:31:27):
The snow plow

Brad (00:31:28):
Parent. Now it’s the slope snow plow parent. Mm-hmm. . So how do you navigate that if you acknowledge some of these cultural trends?

Gabby (00:31:35):
Well, I always tell people just really trust themselves.

Brad (00:31:38):
The parents.

Gabby (00:31:39):
The parents, you know, and their, and each kid is different. So know that kid, like the way I parent, if they think I parent my second kid the way I parent my third, it’s absolutely not true. Mm-hmm. . And if my kids go, That’s not fair. I’m like, Okay, well don’t be ridiculous because where I pull back on one, I give more freedom to another. Yeah. And then on that same one, I might be easier on because she has certain things handled and the other one I might be leaning on. So it’s like, you know, I’m like, do you guys want everything exactly the same? Cuz that’s not realistic.

Brad (00:32:09):
No one’s gonna like that. Yeah.

Gabby (00:32:10):
Right. So I think it’s, um, I always tell parents, like, especially I have new babies, I go, Listen people, everyone’s gonna have an opinion and just make sure that you trust yourself to the best of your ability. And if you need help, ask for it. Like, there’s nothing wrong with saying I’m really feeling buried. Mm-hmm. , especially when they’re older, you know, when they’re teenagers, when they go through really rough times. Um, sometimes asking for help is really more than okay. Mm-hmm. . Um, and not feeling bad or guilty or ashamed. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I talk a lot about disappointment in parenting because I think people are afraid to say first, sometimes when they’re going through a hard time with a kid or kid’s going through, let’s say the family dynamic, something’s going on. Right. Cuz it’s not one person’s fault, um, to say, Wow, I feel really disappointed. I didn’t know it was gonna go this way. Mm-hmm. . And then

Brad (00:33:05):
You mean say it to yourself

Gabby (00:33:06):
Or, or somebody or like a one friend that knows that you’re not like, Hey, you know, like this, I’m disappointed in the kid. Just I’m feeling disappointment as a parent. Mm-hmm. , I think that can kind of kick your ass in a way that you don’t really realize. And if you don’t offload it, and at least look at it and be like, Oh, okay. And then get on with it. I think it’s, it’s hard because we don’t understand what it’s going to be until we’re there and we have so many weird expectations and dreamy weird things for movies and who, and like, I’ll get it better than my parents did and all whatever the things we do mm-hmm. and plus a baby is like unlimited hope. Right? Like, they hand you a baby and you’re like, they can be everything.

Brad (00:33:48):
Even precedent. Yeah.

Gabby (00:33:50):
Yes. And so I think just being able to have those moments and be like, Oh wow, I feel disappointed. Yeah. And then the other thing too is not to think I’m gonna drop my kid off at the therapist and they’ll fix the kid. It’s like, no, we all have to get our asses in there and like find out what the dynamics are. Mm-hmm. and everybody needs to sort of take care of their, their side of it. But, um, I think parenting is a moving target. I think, um, it’s impossible, and I’ve said this before, it’s a job that you’re, you, you’re meant to show up every day mm-hmm. and you’ll never get it. Right. And your job the next day is to show up and, um, and I think that is the job.

Brad (00:34:31):
Clean up the mess from the previous day, then get going.

Gabby (00:34:34):
Yeah. And just keep going. And, um, if you have to apologize or you have to take ownership of something. But for me, I, I think the best we could do is keep listening to our instincts. Be a good example of what you think is important. Mm-hmm. , whatever that is to you and your partner. Mm-hmm. , I’m not here to tell you what that is mm-hmm. . Um, and then try your best to listen to your kid and not fix everything. That was very hard for me. You can imagine. So I think it sometimes just listening and being like mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And now that my girls are older, I’ll ask permission to ask questions. For example, Oh, even the, even the youngest one, she’ll be sharing something and if she’s sharing, I don’t say anything. Mm-hmm. cause they’re talking. Yeah. And then somehow I’ll say, Can I, can I ask a question or can I make a comment? And she’ll tell me directly yes or no.

Brad (00:35:26):
Yeah. Yeah.

Gabby (00:35:27):
So I, that has been helpful, but, but parenting is, uh, is such a, such an interesting, Laird always says it’s for us to grow up. He’s like, that’s what they call it, parenting. He goes, I don’t call it kidding . He’s like, they will grow up. It’s really maybe another chance for us. Yeah. To keep developing.

Brad (00:35:47):
What if the kid’s not talking with the advice to being listening? It’s sure. Profound. I I love that. And then if your kid ain’t saying something, then you’re inclined to try to solve problems or give advice, I guess.

Gabby (00:36:00):
Well, yeah, it’s very unsettling when they’re not talking. Yeah. That’s usually a bigger sign to be alarmed or, you know, I think we have to remember what it was like, that you need more privacy. You want time on, you know, talking with your friends. You, you’re going through a very big shift and maybe the last people you really want to talk to are your parents because you love them so much, but you’re also trying to break away. Maybe you’re having experiences or feelings that you think they will be disapproving of and you don’t want them to be dis you know, disapproving. Mm-hmm. . And so I think it’s a, a combination, right? Like checking on them, making sure they look like they’re okay. Mm-hmm. , um, knowing when to get in there. I, I had a thing with one of my daughters I didn’t know and I had, I probably should have gotten in there sooner. Yeah. And then like, you know, she came in and sort of dropped a bomb on us and I was like, Oh, okay. So

Brad (00:36:56):
You trying to give her her space, whatever, not solve all her problems.

Gabby (00:37:00):
And I would say I gave too much.

Brad (00:37:01):
Yeah. And that, I think that’s what you, that’s what you’re talking about when we’re never gonna get it. Right. And then we’re sitting here with regret. Like, cause I

Gabby (00:37:08):
Was here, by the way, . Yeah. And I was like here every night and I was, I don’t drink alcohol, so I was here and sober. So I was like, all these things that I thought I would pay attention, you know? Yeah. And I would know. And um, I could say that, um, you know, I’ve, I blow it all the time for sure. And in an effort to be like, Oh, that seems like natural space. Yeah. That maybe I should have injected myself in and been like, Hey,

Brad (00:37:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel that for sure. Yeah. Why don’t you drink alcohol? Someone asked me that a month ago. I’m like, Oh, I don’t know. Well, should I? I

Gabby (00:37:43):
Grew up, I, I always find it interesting and have no trouble with alcohol. If people wanna drink, it’s not a problem. Um, but I always find it interesting that it’s weird if you don’t drink alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. That somehow drinking is like com more like the norm. Yeah. Well I grew up in the Caribbean. Everyone was like a raging alcoholic. Yeah. And I was like, I used to watch the story and be like, I don’t know if that ends. Well then I married Laird. So for the first 12 years of our marriage, Laird was a very high functioning alcoholic uhhuh. And so I just, it just wasn’t my thing. Mm-hmm. . And uh, but again, I don’t, if people, if it’s not wrecking, if it’s not a, you know, train wreck for their life, I have, you know. No problem.

Brad (00:38:21):
That’s a good answer. I’m gonna start using that. It’s just why is, why is it the norm to drink? Like, Well,

Gabby (00:38:28):
Or just I think with people, Cause you don’t wanna feel, you don’t want them to feel like they’ve attacked you. Cuz I don’t think they mean it that way. Yeah. It was just, Yeah. I think you just say like, it just never became any, you know, wasn’t part of my adult life.

Brad (00:38:39):
Yeah. I like kombucha tastes better than Yeah. Wine or alcohol. So

Gabby (00:38:43):
Yeah. I mean it’s ethanol and when people can say, Oh, I love the taste. It’s like, no, you wanna get the edge off. I get it. I’d like to get the edge off too. Yeah. So I totally get, it’s like I understand like giggling and laughing or if you have social anxiety or inhibitions or fricking stressful job or whatever makes a lot of sense. Mm-hmm.

Brad (00:39:00):
. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so with with, with the, uh, the parenting and the modern age, uh, do you feel like Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a strategy to cope with this, um, over pressurized experience that I, I see the kids getting?

Gabby (00:39:15):
I don’t, I really don’t. I have, I have no strategy for electronics. Mm-hmm. and I, I, I mean I suck at it, I’ll be honest. So again, it goes back.

Brad (00:39:24):
You make threats, empty threats. Uh,

Gabby (00:39:27):
No, I don’t even bother anymore cuz I know it’s just like, I mean, Laird will be the one he would take, you know, um, my youngest daughter’s phone away. It’s interesting, my older two are not even really by choice on social media. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I, and I, I sort of halfway, it’s

Brad (00:39:45):
Funny they’re not looking at your posts. It’s kind of weird. Like, you know, your own kids aren’t even No,

Gabby (00:39:49):
It’s great followers. They wouldn’t be looking at my post anyway. Um, I, I think though with my youngest and I, I joke about it that I joke that her group is the experiment. I’m like, Oh my, that kid, my kid is part of the experiment. Um, so it’s gonna be really interesting to see the emotionality, how the brain’s hardwired, uh, everything because she is different than her sister who is of, you know, uh, four years older. Uhhuh and it’s the, it’s technology. She’s a different type of person on top of it. But I can see kind of the differences and the influence on her. So my hope is that we are always having conversations about it. Uh, and I told her, Listen, I’m not going to try to control you because it’s ridiculous. I need to, I’m trying to teach you to manage yourself because you’re not with me every second. Yeah. I mean, she’s in 10th grade. Yeah. But that conversely I’ve heard, which I really appreciate it be like giving a kid cocaine and just being like, well you gotta work it out. So there’s always that Yeah. That you have to look at yourself and be like, No, none of us can control it. So we actually have to force them to control it,

Brad (00:41:02):
Especially when their brain’s not fully developed, you

Gabby (00:41:05):
Know? Right. And that’s at 25, by the way. Yeah.

Brad (00:41:08):
Yeah.

Gabby (00:41:09):
So, and then when they leave for college and whatever, how, what are we doing to do that? Yeah. Or if they don’t go to college, if they go into the work world, whatever. Yeah. So I think it’s such an interesting thing where we know already what it does and how bad it is

Brad (00:41:21):
Mm-hmm.

Gabby (00:41:22):
And yet what can we do about it?

Brad (00:41:26):
Um, same with, uh, in my view, the sporting experience is so accelerated now that high school is like college and college is like pro literally. And thankfully college is like pro so that athletes can make money and all that and transfer. But, um, you know, when my son was playing basketball and he was a little kid and he was good and he loved it and you could tell he just, you know, he wanted more. And so I said, Okay, well we’re gonna go immerse into this highly competitive, highly pressurized basketball track. Yeah. Because if you don’t, I could see that if you just shoot baskets at the park. I mean, the AAU coach looked, both of us in the eye, says, You’re not gonna play much in high school if you don’t, uh, if you make so many turnovers. Like he was just so blunt about it.

Brad (00:42:13):
Yeah. And you have to play against this high level cuz other kids are, and it seems crazy now, but then we have the quarterback coming in and starting as a freshman and leading the team to the national championship and getting drafted. Everything’s sped up. And so like an individual kid who might like to go shoot baskets in the park and catch a few waves and then come back and read a book. Like you, you’re sort of like pushing them aside and there’s only a few spots if you get a B in high school, you’re not getting accepted to Berkeley, UCLA or certain other schools. And so, like how do you navigate that with a kid? It’s, it’s kind of, it’s a little heartbreaking and rough. A rough, rough go here.

Gabby (00:42:52):
Well they feel lopsided. Right. I, I think, you know, listen, I tell my kids this my middle daughter actually just came back from Spain from a tennis academy. And my youngest daughter, I basically have to negotiate with, she’s very athletic. She’s six one to play sports

Brad (00:43:07):
Uhhuh.

Gabby (00:43:07):
So cuz she’s like me. What’s the, what’s the purpose?

Brad (00:43:10):
Well that’s not like you,

Gabby (00:43:12):
Well no, not the sport part, but for her it’s like, Oh, I see. You know, But she’s highly competitive. Like I knew all I had to do was try to get her in the environment and then she, and then all of a sudden she was like, I hate losing. I was like, Oh really? And then it’s like, I need more practice. Oh, really? But

Brad (00:43:25):
This is tennis player?

Gabby (00:43:26):
Or the Yeah, both of them. Oh. But my, my thing is this, I always say to my girls, I’m not your coach, I’m your mom. Mm. So I’m here to talk to you about life. Mm. And communication and taking care of yourself and mm-hmm. , I’m not your coach. That’s the coach’s job. And I know from coming from sports that if you don’t actually really love it, like really love it. Mm-hmm. , um, it’s a complete waste of time in the end. Once you get, especially outta high school, I think high school it’s kind of excellent because you learn all these valuable lessons. You learn to work together as a team. You learn to take criticism. You learn to, you know, strive for goals. You learn to lose and be embarrassed. You learn to win, you learn to do all these things. Yeah. Yeah. So really

Brad (00:44:10):
You learn, you learn your ranking.

Gabby (00:44:12):
No, Exactly. And you learn like I’m good at certain things. I’m not so good at certain things. Yeah. So I think for me, once you’re past high school, the lessons that you really get from sport, they’re, they’re done already. . I mean, you’ve got it. You don’t need to go into college. Oh yeah, yeah. You might be able to deal with more pressure. Yeah. Right. Uh, you might get sophisticated in your training and your performance, but as far as like your human being lessons, I think you get them just by competing in high school. Okay. So for me as a parent, cuz that’s my job, I’m not a coach. Mm-hmm. in this way. Um, I’m sort of saying, Hey, do you know who you are? Uh, do you know what you like? Do you know what you wanna, Cause it’s all gonna be hard work.

Gabby (00:44:53):
Mm-hmm. . So what is it that you think you wanna get up for every day? Mm. Um, and so for people to think that sport is the answer, by the way, only 1% of high school students are gonna get college. Right. Scholarships and only 1% of college athletes Yeah. Are going to get play in the pros. And if you’re a female, the only sport really worth it’s salt in being a pro is a tennis player. So you won’t even go to college and, and Anand, right? Mm-hmm. every other sport is a struggle for women. I mean okay. A little soccer, maybe a little golf. Okay. Mm-hmm . But let’s just talk about the infrastructure, professional women’s sport. It’s not great. Yeah. Okay. So men, it’s, it’s different but it’s also way more competitive. Mm-hmm. , that’s the other thing. Mm-hmm way easier on the women’s side, just less people doing it period.

Gabby (00:45:38):
Mm-hmm . Sure. So I think when I see it I’m like oh, we’re missing the point. And also we’re not giving these guys and girls life skills because even if you were number one Super Bowl champ, NBA champ, whatever champ you wanna be Yeah. World Cup. Great. Yeah. At some point you’re gonna be like 35 and now you have a whole other life Yeah. To live. So what’s interesting for me is I look at it and I go now, does that first sort of 25 years now torture you for the rest of your life? Does it do an enhancement all the way through? Cuz most people won’t make enough money to survive forever. Mm-hmm. . So it’s not even that if we look at all the dimensions, so

Brad (00:46:20):
Financial even even them they’re probably tortured even more so cuz they’re sitting on 50 million cuz they pitched a couple years. Right. They’re really potentially more screwed up than someone who has to go hit the books or

Gabby (00:46:31):
At least go, go to work. Yeah. Right. So if we look at it from all the dynamics, the human dynamic, purpose dynamic having been great or well known and now not Yeah. Um, having been highly physical and now maybe you’re hurting. It’s like there’s so many things that I go, listen, the answer isn’t being a great athlete, it just isn’t. Now if you can learn the things from sport and keep and you do things cuz you really love it and then you have the ability to also parlay and move on in your life Mm. And not be so stuck to that identity mm-hmm. , if you really can do that and somehow you’ve had enough time to invest in real relationships mm-hmm. so that your real life isn’t collateral damage than maybe . So I don’t think people really understand, cuz a lot of these parents of these kids, um, they didn’t do it. So they don’t really understand. Or let’s look at the other side. This is one a kid’s way out. So if you look at it like that, it’s like Yep.

Brad (00:47:34):
1% times

Gabby (00:47:36):
1% that if that was their way out, you know what, it’s a great thing. Yeah. I mean I only went to college cuz I played sports I would’ve never been able to afford to go. Yeah. But I’m talking about kids who come from a really heavy place and they have a gift and they got in the right situation and it got them out. Can they stay out and can they go on? Yeah. Then it’s a great thing. Yeah. But it’s so complicated and nobody ever talks about the whole story. Mm-hmm and the cost. And the price.

Brad (00:48:03):
Mm-hmm. , there you go with your price again. Yeah. And, and the price that you have to pay to adjust back into normal, you know, spitting out of the atmosphere back into earth.

Gabby (00:48:13):
Yeah. And contributing and being, and also dealing with people. If you were a really, well let’s say take the extreme a well known athlete and then all of a sudden it’s like, um, so like what are you doing now? Or like, do you ever throw the ball around or whatever. I mean, people will can stay. Like if you can just understand what that is and deal with that for then the next 40 years Yeah. Then you, you can handle it. But I think you have, people don’t realize like you have to be, there’s a lot to handle after the sport as well. And can you Yeah.

Brad (00:48:45):
I don’t see too many shining examples of that because um, we worship the athletes so much to such extreme now. Yeah. That even these, you know, four star and five star players. Like who the hell put stars on these kids and where are they gonna go when they have 50,000 followers in 10th grade? The 10th grade quarterback, uh, yeah. got $7 million. The guy in Southern Cal to sign with Tennessee before his 11th grade season started. So like, okay, he’s there now. Yeah. Where are you going up when you gonna win the Superbowl? It’s just,

Gabby (00:49:20):
Just crazy how many chances are, unless you’re really very focused like you’re a person like, uh, Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan where winning is so important that actually it wasn’t like now that you’re famous and really wealthy that you got soft . There are certain people that it’s like no, they are grinding it out. That’s who they are. Yeah. There’s very few of them. Yeah. Um, it’d be interesting to see because will everybody be able to reach their full potential, because usually after college then the incentive was to get the money and the pros mm-hmm. . But if now they’re getting the money , which I understand is reasonable, right? Right. You’re making the university millions of dollars. Maybe you can, if God forbid, you get hurt, like whatever. Mm-hmm. thing happens. But it is an interesting thing because will you have the crazy drive at 20 years old if you’ve already made 7 million, which you think is money forever, Right.

Gabby (00:50:12):
Uh, if you get it early. So it’s just, it’s, everything has, its, its pros and cons and um, you know, my thing is like, how do we look out for the athletes and help them develop as people so they can really, you know, navigate all of this? And it’s usually probably pretty hard to do. Um, but it’s, it’s trying to get people to realize, um, we’re not what we do. Even when it’s great, even when it’s great, great. Mm-hmm. , you still have to find the space to, to not fully bite that hook because they’re gonna pull the hook out one day

Brad (00:50:49):
and give it to someone who’s younger and faster and stronger. Yeah. And

Gabby (00:50:53):
It doesn’t make you less great. That’s the whole thing. Yeah. Is the value. Where do we get the value from? Yeah. The value from our humanity, from being important to people that really love us, to somebody who’s like maybe a good member of their community. Mm-hmm. , it’s like, it, it’s so unsexy and, and not shiny, but how do we get them to simultaneously reinforce those things so that when they do kind of come out of this process, they can stand And, and a lot of them have tools to do a lot cuz they can hyper focus and they can be uncomfortable and they can do a lot of things. Mm-hmm. , but they just have to find then something else.

Brad (00:51:30):
It’d be nice if the coaches realize the importance of this, because I think even in the midst of your competitive peak, if you were more balanced and well adjusted, you would have a better, you know, disposition for competition. Yeah. But instead we romanticize Michael Jordan who, you know, couldn’t get enough competition and wanted to kill you in checkers and Oh, isn’t that amazing? But, you know, for, for most people mm-hmm. , if they had a, you know, I mean I was trying to always keep myself in balance when I was a triathlete because I didn’t want to get too down on myself when I got my ass kicked and bring down my entire, you know, mentality. Nor do you wanna think you’re the hottest shit on the planet if you win a competition. And so when you get that level perspective where you’re focused on the process, that’s when I felt I was at my best. Cuz I wasn’t afraid to lose. I wasn’t afraid to win. I was just like, All right, let’s go. Let’s, Um,

Gabby (00:52:24):
But it’s, I think it’s hard because everyone’s motivated differently by different things. Mm-hmm. and for example, if you’re a coach and especially college coach, there’s so many moving pieces and you have no time and there’s a great deal of pressure. Mm-hmm. never mind also a professional coach. I would almost think that somehow maybe there’s more pressure on the college coaches. I don’t, I don’t know why I say that. I just feel that way. Especially like football and

Brad (00:52:47):
Yeah. Like, and my son was saying one of the coaches got fired in the NFL and he is like, so what? He’s gonna be on some other team Yeah. In two weeks making 4 million still, it

Gabby (00:52:57):
Just feels different the way they do it in college. Yeah. But anyway, to get them to go, Oh, and by the way, you got 53 guys and 94 with practice squad. Can we get them well developed? You know, it’s, I think that’s a hard thing to do. And culturally, no one’s gonna stop celebrating champions. Yeah. It’s just the way it is. So it’s, I I think it’s the friends and the, and the parents’ conversation to just, um, remind people, um, you know, this is something I, I always, I get a lot of young athletes sometimes here and maybe guys that played college football for example, and hurt the knees, hurt, not gonna go play in the NFL. That was the plan, not gonna do it. Right. And I’m like, listen, the, the reality is like, you’re a loaded gun. You just have to figure out your next target. And I think that’s true of athletes or people who could do music or they were in theater or whatever. It’s like, Hey, you’re a loaded gun. Mm-hmm. , you know how to load the chamber. Mm-hmm. , what, where do you wanna do next mm-hmm. and, um, and sort of find the way to let go of the other stuff.

Brad (00:53:57):
.

Gabby (00:53:58):
It’s hard to do.

Brad (00:53:59):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean it’s,

Gabby (00:54:01):
But we don’t have a choice.

Brad (00:54:01):
Nothing may top that day that you won the Olympic gold ever. Even if you run a successful business and do the startup or rise to the corporate height or, or become a respected dad in the community, it’s not gonna top it in certain respects. Yeah. Unless you, uh, you know, convince yourself that this is, this is what life’s all about. And this is just as rich and rewarding as, um, you know, when, when you won the gold.

Gabby (00:54:29):
I think when people talk about like, uh, never compare yourself to yourself , you know, like to your old self or another part of yourself and, and that expression of like, uh, you know, don’t be sad. It’s over. Just be really glad that it ever happened. Right. And I think sometimes seeing these things and being like, that is amazing that I got to experience that. Mm-hmm. at that level. Yeah. It’s amazing. Yeah. It’s a, because it’s a miracle. Yeah. I get first round draft guys here. I got a, I had a kid come for the Saints. Right. He came from Ohio State to train, uh, with a guy named Michael Thomas who’s a place with the Saints. Michael’s very talented. And the kids like, Oh, you know, first round. And I go, Oh, so how’s, you’re in the miracle. You’re in the second miracle. Cuz the fact that you played at Ohio State was the first miracle mm-hmm. the fact that you are the first round draft pick to go into the NFL. And I go, and everyone around you is in the miracle, so none of you realize you’re in the miracle. And I think sometimes it’s just getting them to Yeah.

Gabby (00:55:28):
Cuz you don’t wanna take it in cuz you got a job to do mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . But just to be like, I notice.

Brad (00:55:32):
Yeah.

Gabby (00:55:33):
I, I notice because at some point you will be doing something else

Brad (00:55:39):

Gabby (00:55:40):
And be like, That was amazing. I got to be in that miracle. Now I’m in a different miracle. Yeah.

Brad (00:55:44):
Or I was just reflecting like, when you hit your very best, all you think about is I’m gonna do one better next. Mm-hmm. . And, um, you don’t realize, you never know when you’re at your peak until you’re, until you’ve fallen from your peak and then you go, Oh, I maybe that was my peak . Yeah,

Gabby (00:56:00):
I know. Right. But, but it sounds corny and, and it’s very quiet. But I think, um, greatness shows itself in so many ways. Mm-hmm. , you know, and if you want to be great every day, um, you can do that and people may not be handing you wads of cash or medals. Right. But, um, the act like let’s say the vibration is, is great. Yeah. So if you wanna help somebody or you wanna open the door for somebody or Yeah. Like go out of your way just cause I think that these are all things that, um, if we can pay attention, um, they’re all, they’re all part of what makes us feel good.

Brad (00:56:44):
And so how do you get that in day to day life, being a former extreme driven, solo focused athlete? Do you need to have a little sprinkling of that in doing the underwater training and prevailing or, uh, can it be from holding the door open or mix of all that?

Gabby (00:57:02):
Yeah, it definitely has to be a mix. I think there ha I have to do something every day that I’m not someone’s mother, someone’s wife, in business, a female. I’m just me and I’m like doing something that’s hard. Mm. So that really helps me. So pool training, I, before you got here I stood up, uh, biked up the mountain. Nice. And so it’s just,

Brad (00:57:24):
This is a real mountain people. It’s no joke. It’s not just going up to the, the general store. This is the extreme canyon of LA Yeah.

Gabby (00:57:32):
I love, I love the put the bikers here. There’s take it so serious, but Oh yeah. Um, I think for me, just getting in touch with that spirit of myself, which is a little bit like F you and like a, you know, kind of the, I would say has that athletic mentality mm-hmm. where I’m not anything. I’m just me. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and so that is helpful. And then of course, you know, I’m of service to my family, you know, whether on the days I want to or not, I am of service. So I am Yeah. You know, doing things for my family and, and, and when I go out into the world, I do my very best, um, to be, you know, kind to people mm-hmm. and uh, you know, be helpful or take an op if there’s an opportunity to do something or be nice. Um, I, I always do that because it, it seems like, you know, Laird and I joke about this, we can go to work or like show up for something or shoot or do something and people are like, You guys are amazing. And I’m like, No, we’re just acting the way you’re supposed to. And when did that become

Brad (00:58:37):
Oh. Because you’re polite to the, like,

Gabby (00:58:40):
You go on time, you introduce yourself, you say thank you and you, you know, whatever. Yeah. And I think that in some ways we don’t have that quite as much. Just the baseline sort of like, we’re all gonna agree to sort of act like this mm-hmm. . And then from there you can go up and higher, low a little bit. But I think we, we don’t, um, cuz people are afraid, you know, they’re in their phones, they’re uncomfortable, they’re disconnected. They’ve just been wearing a mask for two years. Mm. They’re all psyched out. I get it. , you know, I I really get it. Yeah. And, um, and I, and I know that part of that is probably bicultural design. And, and I think it’s important if we, you know, find the way to kind of, of override, you know, things that have put us in a system that that’s more normal than to be like, Hey, how’s it going today? Mm-hmm. . Um, and so it’s okay. I mean, I’m not pushing against it. I’m certainly, it’s just an observation mm-hmm. of like, we, we have lost, um, a baseline of like, Hey, good morning, how’s it going?

Brad (00:59:42):
Right.

Gabby (00:59:43):
Right. And that’s okay. I, I joke that I bully, I use my size to bully people to be polite. . I do, I go right in their space.

Brad (00:59:52):
And how does that work? I mean, uh, cause

Gabby (00:59:54):
Like, they know what’s the hell’s happening. Um, this

Brad (00:59:57):
As a six, like what an example, like, just like

Gabby (00:59:59):
Being a six foot three female , you’re allowed to, because also it’s like you’re, it’s like women are the eternal mother, right? Mm-hmm. . And so in a way we’re allowed to move into spaces that a guy has to be more cool about. Mm-hmm. . So I can move into a male space. I can move into another female space. I can just move in and just be like, Hey, how are you today? Mm-hmm. , or Good morning, how are you? And I pressure them to actually have to connect with me. And what’s fascinating is a lot of people go, What? Cause nobody’s asked them, Wow. How you doing today? Yeah. Like they’re, let’s say they’re at a, you’re at a place that there’s like, uh, it’s a, the grocery store and it’s a checkout lady or the waitress or whatever who’s dealing with people all day long. Yeah. Hey, how are you? Yeah. What? I’m like, How are you? Yeah. You know, so I, uh, I, I do that for myself because that’s the world I would like to live in mm-hmm. . And, um, I, I think most of us are more like that than not. We just don’t realize it.

Brad (01:00:53):
Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s like buried, you know?

Gabby (01:00:57):
Well, We’ve, we’ve been taught to be scared and especially lately and now we’re scared of each other, which is really, I don’t think that’s actually how people feel mm-hmm. . And so, um, I just go through my day like, uh, I’m not, and, uh, see what happens mm-hmm.

Brad (01:01:12):
, you fake it till you make it if necessary. But yeah. Go and be nice to everybody. It’s not,

Gabby (01:01:17):
It’s just not hard to do. And I have no problem standing up for myself. So if somebody wants to go in a different direction, no problem. But it seems like a waste of energy. Sure. You know? Yeah. It seems more productive to be kind to each other. And also I’m reminded all the time that we really never know what someone’s going through. And so if we can enter into spaces, so when someone is maybe not reciprocating mm-hmm. instead of being like, ah, I have to remind myself like, you do not know what’s going on in their life. So you gotta let that roll

Brad (01:01:55):
For sure. If they’re driving really slowly in front of you or cutting you off going really fast. Yeah.

Gabby (01:02:00):
You don’t know.

Brad (01:02:00):
Have a nice day. Flip them off five times in a row with a waving hand. Yeah.

Gabby (01:02:04):
Yeah. And I, I, I mean all of this seems so fundamental, but I feel like it’s like our food, our lifestyle, I, I feel like we all have the information and for some reason we’re not really practicing it. Yeah.

Brad (01:02:17):
Too busy I guess. Too distracted or something.

Gabby (01:02:21):
Too distracted. Yeah.

Brad (01:02:23):
So your, your, uh, diet and fitness regimen over the years.

Gabby (01:02:30):
Well, nutrition, you know, I, one thing and you, you probably go through this, you know, doing this show, I love when like the same information, the same three things keep showing up. Mm. They all, like, when people align with like, okay, you’re mitochondrial health mm-hmm. . And, um, what really showed up for me nutritionally over and over, uh, for women was that they don’t eat enough protein. Mm. And that fasting actually is not as good for us. Mm. And especially as we get older. Mm. So, um, one, I was happy about that because I, if I fast with Laird, he’s fine. And I wanna, I like I’m outta my mind. Yeah. And so I have heard from, uh, Dr. Sims mm-hmm. , um, just a few, Dr. Lyons mm-hmm. , um, or Lyon excuse me mm-hmm. that women, you know, sort of one gram of protein per ideal body weight mm-hmm.

Gabby (01:03:21):
. And so that is something I do. I’m not a big snacker, so I just try to eat real food. Um, I usually, uh, only eat until I’m full. I’m not, it takes a lot for me to like really overeat mm-hmm. . Um, and, and uh, like we say in our house, like high sourced animal protein and you know, plants and animals, it’s nothing tricky. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I’m consistent, so, and if I want something, I eat it. I don’t, but I don’t want it that often. Right. Cause I think when you’re eating, that’s the thing, people don’t realize you don’t have to give up anything. You just have to get out of all the weird cravings, . Yeah. And if you can get your gut straight, that’s the other thing in nutrition for me that has shown up as, you know, probably 50 times on my podcast about the really the great importance of the health of your microbiome, microbiome mm-hmm.

Gabby (01:04:10):
and its function not only on your, you know, physical health but on your emotional health. I mean, it really, it almost becomes, um, disenchanting when you start to think, Oh, my special, my personality. And you’re like, maybe it’s really just my microbiome. Like it’s not, I’m not even, this isn’t really me. Right. Like this is just some extension of how it’s feeling. Cause they even talk about, um, your ability to, you know, dopamine or depression or things like that to your microbiome. So it, you know, those things, uh, certainly have showed up a lot in my conversation. So I, I’m mindful about, um, just kind of seeing how all of it feels and how it’s going and, and, um, but yeah. Nothing crazy.

Brad (01:04:52):
Well that putting protein first is super important I think, cuz it, it sets you up for success in so many ways and mm-hmm. speaking of the cravings and the depletion and, and the fasting, which I’ve been really reflecting on a lot lately of whether someone who’s healthy, active, athletic and wants to perform and recover needs to add another stressor to their lives. And especially that, that great show with Stacy Sims and mm-hmm. , Gabrielle Lyon talking about how, you know, female’s most prominent biological drive is reproductive fitness and fasting is a signal that you are, there’s no food. So you’re gonna turn down these important dials mm-hmm. . And, um, it’s kind of gotten to, some of these things are super beneficial because of what they eliminate Yes. Rather than the magic of fasting every day until 12 noon is your, you’re getting a renewal effect in yourselves. And all those things are scientifically true. Yes. But it’s because it’s mostly because you didn’t eat a shit breakfast like we’ve been doing our whole lives and causing, causing trouble.

Gabby (01:05:52):
Yeah. Right. And, and the things like people want to accomplish like autophagy and things, these take a much larger window of of time. Yeah. And to your point, performance people and when we’re talking about fasting performance, women are even more vulnerable mm-hmm. Because they need the things to recover. Mm-hmm. . So I think it’s a great point, but through all of that, I always think it’s important for people to experiment mm-hmm. , um, and listen to themselves. How do they feel? And you said something super important about fasting that I actually think might be almost key, which is it’s just grabbing the reins. , I think sometimes we get loosey goosey. Mm-hmm. like all of a sudden you’re like, Oh, I just, I eat a bagel now three times a like whatever, it’s sprouted. Oh yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. like it’s a, you know, so sometimes you can use that as a consciousness, a reconnected mm-hmm. tip just pulling in the reins a little bit. So for that, I, I appreciate what you’re saying cuz ultimately really that could be what fasting, the ultimate, which is, I’m just gonna get a little bit in charge of things. Right?

Brad (01:06:52):
Yeah. It’s, it’s stopping the unregulated access to indulgent foods all the time, including clicking a button and having it come to your door. You don’t even have to get in the car and drive down the street for your Ben and Jerry’s or whatever the heck’s coming up. Yeah.

Gabby (01:07:08):
And, and, and the oils, like if you want me to say what keeps showing up, it’s of course it’s the importance of of, of not eating these processed oils. So trying to stick to the avocado, the coconut, the olive oil, and then certain pumpkin oil and walnut oil and um, those are harder to find. And then, and then, uh, people, it’s controversial, but if you get real palm oil, there’s some mm-hmm. , uh, it

Brad (01:07:30):
Can be, it’s like coconut oil can be quite good. High saturated.

Gabby (01:07:33):
Yeah. So I think it’s people, you know, they’re trying so hard but they, they don’t realize it’s in everything we eat. Yeah. And you know, it’s on every pizza, it’s in every, so it’s like

Brad (01:07:44):
Every, every restaurant meal.

Gabby (01:07:45):
Yeah. Everything. So it’s like okay, make your own salad dressing if you can cook at home as often, even though, listen, I’m sick of my cooking. I’m sick of it.

Brad (01:07:53):
Your sick of cooking.

Gabby (01:07:54):
Yes, of course. Luckily one of my girls does cook, so I’m, she’s like, Do you want me to cook 10 tonight? I’m like Oh my god, please somebody else. You know? Um, but I would say that that is so supportive of your health cuz then you really know what’s going on. Cuz most places we go to even the super healthy ones, the oil can get us.

Brad (01:08:13):
Um Yeah, that’s a shocker because you think you’re out at a restaurant having salmon with broccoli and uh, whatever. You’re very choosy. And, um, Dr. Cate Shanahan site’s research. Oh yes. At 40% of restaurant calories come from seed oil and that counts fast food that also counts medium level chains that are, you know, nice. And then the super high end restaurants. My son was working at one of the most expensive restaurants in LA and they had a jug of that nasty oil that they’d use to prepare their sauces and things that are going on the $170 steak. And it’s like those guys too that it’s, it’s shocking or Whole Foods. Yeah. The beacon of healthy eating Yeah. Has it all over the store. Yeah. And I, you know,

Gabby (01:08:57):
I think Erewhon. , which is a more local, uh, place

Brad (01:09:00):
Obviously. Yeah. They’re chain in LA

Gabby (01:09:01):
Would pretty good cook their prepared food does not cook Right. With any of those oils. Yeah. But yeah. And this isn’t about, you know, for me, I never look at things. I mean, sometimes you look at and go man, how do we get so far outta whack? I mean when you look at all of it, healthcare and what have you, but rather than getting overwhelmed and it’s even like, our water’s polluted our air. Okay, okay, let’s, let’s back it up and just say what can we do to support ourselves? How do we make this easier for ourselves? There’s gonna be things coming at us that we can’t control. Yeah. And just how do we do the best that we can? And I think for me, not only does that help do this consistently, cuz you don’t just feel constantly exhausted from being overwhelmed. Yeah. But it also, it’s like, hey baby steps.

Gabby (01:09:40):
Mm-hmm. We don’t have to have perfect health. We don’t have to have the water that’s perfect and whatever. Mm-hmm. Even though, let’s go for the best water. Mm-hmm. Or let’s go for the strongest immune system that we can have so we can battle all this stuff. But I think that that’s really my overall, people say to me, Oh, like you’re, are you as intense as Laird and this and that? I go, actually, I think my real gift is my middle. I’m very, I don’t let my, I think my tips and my, my my kind of my wings stay pretty level mm-hmm. and that it feels good to me. Like the minute I start going one way, I’ll be like, Okay, how do I even this out? So I think even with health and fitness, what people have to do is not feel so overwhelmed and not change everything all at once mm-hmm. , but just start to do best practices. Okay. Can you start walking? Can you get rid of the worst thing in your cabinet? Mm. And then okay, the next week, can we improve? Can you get to bed 30 minutes earlier, whatever that is. Yeah. Um, because that’s how we make real, I think long lasting, um, change and mm-hmm. things are always gonna be crazy in the world.

Brad (01:10:42):
Yeah. Humans, humans are tough. They’re resilient. They can handle a lot shit of thrown down the pipe. Yeah. There’s people living to a hundred that smoke and have their cigar in their ice cream every night. But I also feel like as we’re walking on this tight rope, um, and then I’ll be visiting with friends and one of ’em say, Well look, hey, you know, it’s really everything about, it’s everything in moderation. And I go, no, it’s not because we’re, we’re bombarded with such nasty health offenders in diet and everything else that you gotta be kind of of extreme just to be tiptoeing away from the vacuum that’s gonna suck you into, you know, demise. Yeah. Um, then this is true now that we’re for example, listening to a show like this, if you’re still listening this far, you’re probably very health conscious person and all that. Um, then you kind of, uh, Bruce Lipton Biology of Belief, you know him. Yeah. Yeah. He says, if you think about it and you’re worried about that cell tower coming in near your your apartment building, it’s going to manifest on a cellular level. Your worries and thoughts and fears about it are gonna cause the health destruction. Mm-hmm. , I’ve challenged him on the other side. Like, if you don’t think anything bothers you Sure. I’ll have a cigar tonight. It’s so problem. My lungs are gonna fight it off. I don’t know about that, but mm-hmm. Um,

Gabby (01:11:55):
But there’s something to be said

Brad (01:11:57):
Stress that stress turning on that stress Yeah. About your diet or missing your workout or any of that stuff. Whew.

Gabby (01:12:02):
Yeah. And I, I, that’s the perfect point because the thing is, is that our body doesn’t know what the stress is, it just knows that it’s stress. Right. So I think it’s, it’s really important

Brad (01:12:12):
Irrational fear about the new cell tower. Right? Yeah.

Gabby (01:12:15):
I mean, we all have to stay realistic, , but I I, the whole thing of, uh, of responding to what has not happened, which is one of the greatest accomplishments, if we can even hit that pocket a few times in the day, I think is really important because, you know, we’re always living in the past in the future and it, it is so hard to just go, like, right here, right now, I’m okay mm-hmm. . And, um, that is a, you know, that that’s something for all of us to,

Brad (01:12:46):
Especially kids. I would, I would think like that’s one of my big goals is just keep them, you know, away from past and present Yeah. Past and future ruminations because they, they, there’s just so much pressure on them it seems like, you know.

Gabby (01:13:02):
Well, I feel also that we are doing them a disservice, because in some ways we’ve softened up life so much , Right. That their ability to handle str like sometimes my youngest daughter will be like, That’s stressing me out. I go, This is stressing you out. Let me tell you,

Brad (01:13:18):
Let me tell you, I walked to school in the Virgin Islands, but I just swim up part of the route world

Gabby (01:13:22):
Isn’t nature is still gonna be nature. They’re still gonna have to go out Oh, yeah. Into the world. And so are they all gonna be like, I’m triggered, I’m trauma, I’m stressed. It’s like, oh my god, people. So, No, it’s, Yeah. So I, I, but I, but having said all that, and I, I know, uh, we’re, we’re gonna wrap this up. I think it’s really important to know to, to be optimistic that I think we’re in a really weird transition mm-hmm. in our world because technology has in the, you know, since, especially since 2008, but let’s say in the last 20 years, really transformed our world in a way that we certainly cannot handle. And so my hope is, is that we, we kind of, it shakes out a little bit. Hopefully my kid isn’t destroyed, um, forever, um, from it. But, um, and that we all keep all hands on deck, you know, it’s like we all keep trying our best and we all, you know, keep trying to show up and see how we can use it in our life. Um, or, you know, it’s a whole other thing and I don’t know. Yeah. But again, I don’t know, but my feeling is, is it’s, they might look at it, maybe they’ll look back in 20 years and go, look at those idiots. They were looking at social media and doing all this stuff. Mm-hmm. , like, maybe they won’t.

Brad (01:14:38):
That is a wonderful, uh, positive dream for the future. I, I, I share that too, that, you know, things go to the extreme. The pendulum swings. Yeah. Gabby Reese, people, going deep as usual. Thanks for coming over. We’re gonna find you on the Gabby Reese podcast. Of course. And what else we got cooking. Where can we, where can we connect? Oh,

Gabby (01:14:58):
I just ga I’m on social.

Brad (01:15:00):
She’s hard to find, but if you look further, you’ll you’ll find her somewhere.

Gabby (01:15:04):
Yeah. Instagram and, you know, on all those places.

Brad (01:15:11):
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