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Dave Sherwin

Get ready for a very positive and enthusiastic guest, Dave Sherwin—a longtime promoter of health, weight loss, vitality, and peak performance.

Dave is a lifelong golfer and former competitive basketball player who has done incredible competitions like Spartan Beast (which he completed in four hours!) and is blazing that trail in his 50s for continued peak performance and vitality. A dedicated practitioner of mindfulness and meditation, Dave also has a program called the “Dirobi UnDiet”, which is a strategy to lose weight away from the tired and often criticized methods of crash dieting, eating less and exercising more, etc.—in short, a more mindful approach to weight loss. He also has a cool program involving supplements, shares a lot of free, great advice on his website, and hosts a fantastic health podcast, which I’ll be making an appearance on soon, so stay tuned for that! 

In this episode, we have a lively conversation about pursuing athletic goals and making age-appropriate adjustments to your regimen and goal setting so that your pursuits can align with your health and longevity, rather than compromise them—which is unfortunately common and easy to let happen when you have that misplaced competitive intensity and you’re getting older, but thinking that you’re still younger, so you keep doing some of the more extreme stuff that really is more of a young person’s game. Instead, we want to modify and recalibrate but still keep that competitive edge going. Enjoy this motivating and inspiring conversation with Dave Sherwin and stay tuned for my appearance on the Dirobi Health show!

TIMESTAMPS:

With today’s guest, Brad will explore making age-appropriate adjustments with your athletic goals. [01:15]

Golf can be more exercise than you think, of course, if you walk, instead of ride in a cart. [05:10]   

The young child being introduced to sports can be transformative in helping them becoming a better person with teamwork, and developing the confidence to develop into a real healthy athlete.  [10:46]

Around age 40, you may have to rethink your exercise protocol…..even become an endurance athlete. [15:11]

Achieving something in health and fitness can have a profound impact on your life. [21:10]

Get a buddy to do things with helps.  You don’t have to go into competition. [23:54]

Keeping muscle strength up is a critical part of longevity. CrossFit is one way to get the entire body fit. [26:46]

You are headed for wheelchairs by default in today’s world, if you are not doing something about it. Mobility, strength, flexibility, endurance, great nutrition together is your goal. [34:17]

When you eat and how you eat is actually the first thing to adjust before we talk about what you eat. [38:41]

Getting 7 to 9 hours of sleep is what most sleep experts recommend. [42:52]

Niche diets are not the best way to look at this. Make sure the carbs you are eating are healthy. [51:53]

It is normal to have a treat on occasion.  The trouble is, in our society, we have too many treats. [59:06]

When purchasing chocolate, if you spend under $3.00, you are supporting child labor and poorly produced products. You should expect to pay around $3.00 or more per ounce. [01:01:04]

It is important, when buying eggs, to think about the chickens, how they are raised, what they eat and that they are not full of chemicals. Same with purchasing meat.  Be diligent in your selections.  [01:05:06]

The stress level in our society is hard to adapt to from our ancestral life and we can’t go back! [01:15:39]

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Brad [00:01:15] Hey listeners, get ready for a very positive and enthusiastic guest named Dave Sherwin, a long time, promoter of health, weight loss, vitality, and peak performance. You gotta love this guy. His bio has a lot of checkpoints that completely, uh, captivate me. He’s a single digit golfer. He’s been a golfer his whole life. He was a competitive basketball player for many years, and then he picked up, multi-sport qualified for the age group national championships in triathlon. He’s done incredible competitions like the Spartan beast, dead lifted 400 pounds and is just blazing that trail in his fifties for continued peak performance and vitality. And he has a program called the Dirobi Un-diet. So it’s a strategy to lose weight away from that tired and often criticized, uh, strategy of crash dieting, eating less exercising, more so kind of a mindful approach to weight loss.

Brad (00:02:24):
He has a program that involves supplements and some great free advice at his website. So you can check out what the Nairobi UN diet is all about and the Dirobi health show, which is a great podcast that he hosts. And I will be a guest on very shortly. Can’t wait. But we have a lively conversation about pursuing athletic goals, uh, making adjustments, age appropriate adjustments to your regimen and to your goal setting so that your pursuits can align with your health and longevity rather than compromise them, which very, uh, common and easy to let happen when you have that misplaced competitive intensity. And you’re getting older and thinking that you’re still younger and also, uh, doing some of the more extreme stuff. That’s probably a young person’s game, and then we can, uh, modify recalibrate, but still keep that competitive edge going. So right up my alley, and we’re gonna have a great conversation. I’ll definitely get you motivated and inspired Dave Sherwin,

Brad (00:03:29):
Dave Sherwin. We finally connect . I’m an admitted flake of the planet. Sometimes I forget to look at my calendar and I have missed podcast before and now I feel like we’re, um, we’re like brothers in that spirit, cuz I think you missed a couple. I missed a couple, but you’re

Dave (00:03:49):
For a year. I think I, I looked at, yeah, maybe I, I looked, you looked you up last time. One of us missed, I think it was me and uh, I’m looking at my calendar, Brad Kearns. I see the first event was like June 2021. I was like, what in the world? We, we literally rescheduled this and missed and miss, and it’s really funny cuz I’ve done over 200 episodes and of my own episodes. I bet I’ve mentally whiffed on maybe two

Brad (00:04:15):
yeah, well it’s, you know, so

Dave (00:04:18):
No, I think common, but

Brad (00:04:19):
What’s great is we never gave up and your, your message was so compelling. What you’re doing on your show is called the Diirobi health show. Yeah. We’ll we’ll tee that up for listeners and, and talk more about that, but um, fantastic. I also wanna get to know ya and hear about these amazing athletic exploits in your, in your past and bringing us up to present day. Cuz I think we have that connection where we’ve done some crazy stuff. We’ve reached some higher Heights and then you have to continually recalibrate and wonder. Yeah. Um, you know, should I do the Spartan beast every year or should you just put that up on your, your belt buckle and then move on to other things? Yeah, you have to mention golf. Of course. My obsession with the great sport of speed golf and I didn’t realize you were a stick and an endurance athlete and a health and diet expert. So, um, welcome. Yeah. That’s

Dave (00:05:10):
Yeah. And go golf is my favorite by far truth. Be told I, I absolutely love golf. I have, I have ever since I was a teen and I almost never talk about it cuz of course it’s not a core part of my health. It’s really a fun thing. It’s a fun thing that I do and I absolutely love it and I play my local men’s league and I’ve got friends at various courses and, and, and love it. And, and frankly, now I did one time put on my apple watch and decide to do this as another workout. Right? So now we typically walk me and me and my buddies. We believe, we believe in the old Scottish style of golf where you do not ride in a cart unless, you know the course forces you to

Brad (00:05:51):
Which they often do and it which they often

Dave (00:05:53):
Disgrace

Brad (00:05:54):
It disgrace to the game in Scotland where they wanted you walk on the links. Yeah,

Dave (00:05:58):
It, it is. And the true game is, is fantastic when you’re carrying or rolling your own clubs in a, in a push cart or something like that. And, and I once put on my watch and, and we played nine holes and it took about two to half hours, which is pretty common at a full course, you know, for nine holes. And, um, and I, I walked during that time, I think it was about four miles total in a low cardio zone. It was about 95 beats a minute. My resting heart rate is like 55. And so I’d never really thought of golf as actually a workout, but it is. It’s it’s, um, it, it is a low impact, uh, workout. So for those of you that golf, don’t, don’t feel like it’s not doing anything for you, but unless you’re riding in a cart, then all bets are off. Just get outta the cart and carry your, or push your clubs in a cart.

Brad (00:06:49):
Yeah. I mean the sport of golf, in my opinion has some, uh, you know, it has some growth and, and marketing challenges. And I think it’s staying alive by tradition and we have our diehard golf enthusiasts, but the, the, the amount of time that it takes to play a proper round, as well as the lack of exercise that happens when you’re in a cart, I think are two challenges that those of us in the speed golf community, we have an incredibly simple solution for both of those, which is you, you hustle and you play more quickly. And in particular, I think some of the traditions where we have the typical recreational golfer of whatever handicap and I believe the average handicap is what like a 20 or something. And, and, um, yeah, you know, we’re not, not shooting pars, generally speaking, when we’re talking about no, the 25 million American players. I don’t think you really need 14 clubs unless you’re a single digit handicap.

Brad (00:07:43):
Therefore you can take a little bag and it’s much more amenable to walk the course, holding onto a few clubs and creating your shots and getting a workout. And, if you’re not a runner, you can fast walk it and play around in, uh, two hours or something. And if you’re, you know, attracted to the sport of speed golf, we have guys Rob Hogan played my tournament on a, uh, 6,250 yard course. And he completed the entire course in 34 minutes. It was just an amazing marvel athletic performance and shooting 83, very so not, not goofing around, but actually playing good golf. These great speed golfers are setting the setting, the example for a lot of people to aspire to.

Dave (00:08:24):
I’d love to try it. I actually have three sets. I have, I have four, I have four small bags and in the fall I often challenge my buddies to a round where you’re, we’re, you’re only allowed four clubs.

Brad (00:08:36):
Oh, nice. You

Dave (00:08:37):
Can pick the four. Yeah. I don’t care what they are, but you, you pick the four that you want. And I have these tiny, skinny little bags, probably similar to what you have in speed, speed golf. And I give them each one and we pick our four clubs and then we just go and it’s really, really fun. And, uh, you know, no range finder, I mean, just look at the flag and hit the ball, you know, and that, that type of thing. And it, and it’s really fun to do it that way.

Brad (00:08:59):
Yeah. And what’s amazing. I mean, almost every person who’s participated in a speed golf tournament will come off the course and just marvel at the incredible phenomenon of shooting as good or better a score than when they spend five hours with the caddy and 14 clubs. And it’s believed that you get out of that oftentimes destructive, overly analytical mindset where you’re looking at the wind direction. And you’re trying to model what you see on TV with the PGA tour guys who set example, that’s completely irrelevant to the average player. And if you just grab any old club and execute a shot comfortably without getting in your head so much, it ends up that the ball goes straight. And I I’ve had these amazing experiences putting in a speed golf tournament where I’m outta breath. I run up to the green and I have a 67 foot put and it goes to one inch away. And it’s like, if I did that 99 more times with a caddy reading it, you know, I wouldn’t do that as good as that first swat where I could barely see the ball, cuz I was heaving from the effort of running and uh, that’s kind of the magic speed golfing. Yeah.

Dave (00:10:06):
Yeah. And, uh, golf is the only sport where people ice themselves right in football, the coach calls a timeout, right? Yeah. The coach calls a timeout. So the kicker has to think about the kick, right? Yeah. So this guy’s standing over, get there mentally analyzing thinking about it. The crowd’s getting into his head, he’s gotta go kick a 40 yard field goal and what they do, he comes back out to take the kick. They call another time out and it’s called icing the kicker and in golf, golfers do it to themself all the time. They look at it for way too long and then they hit a crummy shot. It’s absolutely true. Uh, the, the, the old, the saying just hit the ball. It’s absolutely true.

Brad (00:10:46):
So you have this long participation in golf, but you also got deep into the endurance scene. So maybe give us some highlights and take us up to present day where your exercise regimen has been, uh, modified and adapted.

Dave (00:11:03):
Yeah. Sounds good. I mean, fitness has, has been an important part of my life and I was raised by parents who, weren’t necessarily into health and fitness that much, but my mother is really into natural whole foods and cooking. She loves to cook and, and I grew up on a philosophy of eating good foods. And so that was a great gift that my mother gave to me, but my parents weren’t athletic and I was a very awkward backwards kid. I was the kid who cried and wanted to go home on the first day of school. You know, I didn’t make many friends. And, um, I just was socially really awkward when I was a kid. But I was introduced to basketball. There was a bunch of kids like sixth or seventh grade playing on the short hoop, had a ball, maybe the size of a soft ball.

Dave (00:11:50):
And they’re trying to dunk this small ball on a short hoop and they couldn’t do it. I was a little taller and I came on. I was like, Hey, can I try? And I went up, I was able to dunk this ball on the small hoop. And it was this first feeling I ever had really had of doing something athletic with my body that other people tried and weren’t able to do it. It was this kind of very satisfying thing. And from there I started taking an interest in basketball and through basketball and getting better and better. I never became a great player. I didn’t get a college scholarship or even close, but I made the high school team, which was tough and a lot of work to do. I was introduced to exercise, to nutrition as an athlete, uh, to, um, lifting weights in the off season to improving my jump.

Dave (00:12:34):
And, and I learned to be a team player and to be able to have the confidence to play in front of a crowd and it was transformative for me. And it helped me become a better person in, in those other ways. And from there I lifted weights three times a week and played basketball three times a week till I was 40 . That was what I did. And I loved it. I had buddies at a gym where we’d play at six o’clock in the morning. A lot of these guys were Ex collegiate players. There’s a lot of great players. I there’s a group of guys. I could go to, I got to know three or four gyms that had different times of day that you could go play, pick up basketball. And I absolutely loved that. And along the way, I was introduced to Bill Phillips Body for lLfe. Do you remember that?

Brad (00:13:19):
Oh, Sure. Yeah. Very, very popular contest based body transformation tips where you, you signed up and then you went for whatever it was 18 weeks and took pictures before and after it was huge phenomenon. Yeah,

Dave (00:13:35):
It was. And, and my buddy Trent, who I was driving to the gym with, I was maybe 32 years old at the time. So was in decent shape from playing basketball lifting weights. I was exercising six times a week and I, it was really fulfilling for me. It was a basis of my health program and of my, of part of my life program. Right. And, and just being an effective human being. I just think all round, we’re just better off when we have a solid fitness and, and nutritional regimen. And then that book came along and I said to him, Hey, when we go to the gym, let’s do this program. It already includes three workouts a week. We’re already doing that. and we both really went for it. And we, we did the, the 90 day challenge. We took the picture with the newspaper the whole bit.

Dave (00:14:20):
You remember that? Yeah. And sure enough, 90 days later, we both had people commenting, like at the gym, you know, shirts and skins take off your shirt. And he was like, whoa, man, what what’d you do, Dave? And that, and that was also, again, another like really satisfying thing to, to dedicate myself, to something athletic have results that other people could see do a body transformation become more muscular. And so that was another epiphany for me. And, but then I turned 40 and as I was starting to turn 40 with, you know, 38, 37 years old wasn’t as quick, couldn’t jump as high. The young guys were running around me. Like I was standing still on defense. And it, I was, you know, life was hitting me. I was realizing, Hey, this has worked for me for a long time, but I’ve gotta do something else.

Dave (00:15:11):
And so I started looking around and I just decided on my 40th birthday, I’d changed my plan. And a friend of mine did a triathlon and he said, Hey, I did this triathlon. It was so cool. It was so fun to cross the finish line. And, and, uh, and I was like, oh, that makes me wanna throw up. I, you know, I hate running. I only run cause I play basketball and I can’t swim. And to be out there in the hot sun for hours and hours, he goes, no, no, no, it was a mini triathlon. We just swam half a mile. We biked 12 miles. We ran a 5k and that clicked with me. I thought, wow, if I swam, biked, and ran, cuz in my head, I thought triathlons were all long endurance. Right. Very difficult things. Right? And when he told me that there was these short little races called ’em sprint triathlons, right?

Dave (00:16:01):
There’s the main distances are sprint Olympic, which is actually do, uh, double what I said, swim one mile bike, 24, run a 10 K and then there’s a half Ironman, which is swim 1.2 bike, 56 miles run a half marathon, 13.1. And then there’s the full, which is 2.4 miles, um, 112 miles and then a full marathon. Well, I actually borrowed his bike and I train. And when I turned 40, I literally hung up my basketball shoes. retired from basketball and started running biking and swimming and did my first race. It was a disaster. It was so bad. I barely finished the swim I got out. I did okay. On the bike and then I’d become a decent runner as I trained. And so I passed a lot of people which was very satisfying on the run and probably finished in the middle of the pack, but it was really, really satisfying.

Dave (00:17:05):
It was a lot of fun. And from then I became, uh, pretty much addicted to endurance sports and I did all those different races except the full, I never wanted to do a full, I did run a marathon smart guy here, people. Yeah, I did do halfs and I did a lot of Olympics. I actually, I actually qualified for the national championships in Olympic and went out to Virginia the year. Uh, they did it on, uh, lake Champlain and that was really something else we made into a holiday. We spent time in Quebec. I did the race and I was 48 years old when I did that race. And I finished in the top 25 of all the competitors who, you know, were half my age. You know, the most of the field was between 20 and years old. And so that was really cool to know that I was 48 years old.

Dave (00:17:54):
Some of my friends at this point had had their first heart attack and were, you know, 40 pounds overweight. I mean, let’s, let’s face it. If you look around at America or any first world country really right now, 40, what, what does the average 48 year old man look like and behave like, and what is their athleticism level at? Many of them are on multiple drugs already. And so, and so that was another kind of a, wow, this is really cool. I, I can be healthy and fast and, and actually compete with people half my age at this age. So, Brad, super long answer to your short question, but that, that’s kind of my history to that point anyway.

Brad (00:18:28):
I mean, there’s nothing like being in basketball shape. And so to take that and jump right into triathlon totally different, it’s totally reasonable, but it, yeah, you have to completely regroup. Uh, one thing that really struck me was those, those wonderful, uh, turning points where you mentioned, you know, dunking, uh, on, on the, on the small hoop and just getting that awakening that you had some potential here, you, you had that first experience of joy in sports. And I can reference some of those checkpoints in my own life where, uh, I remember being on the, the elementary school program and we had a track team and the coach was this really he, he was like a, a, a huge presence. He played for the Los Angeles Rams as a running back and, you know, just a booming voice.

Brad (00:19:18):
And it was very, very strict and, you know, very competitive, but he also made it fun. And, at the championship meet, he was, um, designing the four by 100 relay team. And he pointed to the fastest guys, your first, your second, your third. And then he pointed to me, you’re the anchor league. And it was the first time I think I was in fourth grade and everyone else was in sixth, you know? And, um, you, I just, I started shaking because I was so nervous and I thought he was maybe pointing to someone behind me. But he saw something, uh, and, and, you know, believed in me or my potential or for whatever reason he chose that maybe to get a big lead in ensure the exchanges are good. And then anybody at the end can, can take it home. But, uh, you know, what happens when a guy gets the Baton and his teammates are counting on him and I was, you know, the underdog I ran like, you know, like I was shot out of a cannon and, you know, just some silly anecdote from childhood, but we don’t realize how these can, you know, be turning points in our lives and have lasting impact.

Dave (00:20:19):
We, we don’t. But now, now that I’ve been in the health industry since, uh, 2009, and we’ve had hundreds of thousands of customers literally probably well over a million, I haven’t kept track of every customer have had since 2009, but we have hundreds of new customers just in our weight loss program a month. Okay. And so I am immersed in what people go through as grownups in a first world country. And their biggest in interest is losing weight about 60%. And one of the things I’m learn, I’m learning, Brad, is many, many people never had the experience that you or I just described. Mm-hmm many of them had terrible experiences and hated gym class never wanted to be, there were embarrassed. Didn’t wanna play the games, uh, just weren’t cut out for it just mentally, physically didn’t wanna do it for whatever reason.

Dave (00:21:10):
And so one of the, and maybe I don’t know where your listeners are at and how many of them fall into that camp, but for those of them that do, um, I would say that, um, you can have the exact same joy today by setting a goal and doing something this way as what Brad and I described. And, and that if you’ll decide to run a 5k or to, if you’re on a rowing machine row, a 2000 meters under 10 minutes or whatever the case might be, right, that health and, and fitness and achieving something can, can be profound and it can be a springboard to affecting and improving everything else in your life. And so that’s, what’s been a little bit sad, but at the same time, a new opportunity for me, Brad, is to try to identify those people that unfortunately have never had that they’ve never felt the thrill of an endorphin high when they run.

Dave (00:22:12):
They don’t know what it’s like to, to have some thrill of doing something physical. All they know is the shame. Even sometimes of being told to do something or to, to be the last picked on the team every single time, or to be the person that was publicly embarrassed as a child and never wanted to go back to gym class. And so, um, that there’s a big a crowd out there that that is their experience, unfortunately. And so, um, but I, but I, but I’ve seen enough of those people now who have realized this and have put themselves out there and it’s very scary to go do something like this. They feel like everyone’s watching them, but they commit, they set a goal. They do something they’d never done. Maybe even just joining a gym is something that they would never have done before. But they, they, they, they pony up.

Dave (00:23:02):
This is the time they commit. They put their money down, they get a trainer maybe, and now they walk into that gym where they feel like everyone in the world is looking at the [inaudible] are not, everyone’s looking at the mirror at themselves. no one cares about you. Don’t worry. You’re just in the way of their mirror image. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t, don’t walk between them and their Instagram. You know, they’re Instagramming take a picture of themself. Uh, you think they’re looking at you, they’re not, well anyways, you get the idea. So, so that’s an aspect for those listening that. Try it, pick something you haven’t done. Maybe it’s climb a mountain. It could be anything it’s, maybe something you’ve had a, a dream to do. It could be a bike race, it could be adventure race. It could be a Spartan, triathlon, a 5k, anything, but there’s just nothing like down your money, making a commitment, choosing a date, putting it on the calendar, going for it, getting ready for it. And, and then competing

Brad (00:23:54):
Well said, I think it can go all the way to scale to just having a pal and you decide to do something together and if competing and, and getting a race number and all that is not your thing you guys are going to climb the highest peak, uh, in your area at the end of the summer. And so you’re gonna practice right, uh, you know, on, on numerous weekends and have, have an accountability partner and something that is appropriate to your level of competitive intensity or interest. And I’m saying this just to, to be all inclusive, but also I think, uh, you could echo this as well, where, uh, here I am today, you know, I, I had my nine years on the professional triathlon circuit. It was very exciting ,we were on TV, I made my living doing that. I was, you know, supposedly in a very important and prominent career because of all the attention.

Brad (00:24:46):
But today my goals are just as significant. And I get just as much joy and exuberance when I clear the high jump bar in an empty high school stadium that I had to hop the fence to get into and, you know, competing in something that means a lot to me. And, you know, the scream that you hear when I land on the pad or that no one hears is just the same as crossing the finish line with all the drama and the, um, the, the pomp and circumstance. And I think there’s, there’s a big population of people who had their day in the sun. They played pickup ball until they were 40. And now they’re watching the Warriors play the Celtics on TV, and it’s completely gone rather than being recalibrated down to whatever would be appropriate for your physical capacities and injury risks of playing pickup basketball.

Brad (00:25:35):
I think that was smart that you left at 40 cuz I played until I was just talking to my son. I played until I was like 47 in the adult leagues. And, the last couple games, you know, was all the writing on the wall. I, I had a, a pretty bad injury on the court and I’m like, I don’t belong out here. This is ridiculous. And uh, there’s always a time that you have to walk away, but then as soon as you walk out that door, man, pick something else, pick something else, pick something else.

Dave (00:25:59):
I love that. And, and for me, that’s something else. So what happened for me in triathlon? I love triathlon. I, I just, and not just triathlon, I did adventure races. I did a Spartan beast. Uh, we would do team races. We would do a hundred milers as a group where you have a support van and you’re taking turns and all that stuff was just great. But I developed chondromalacia in my knee. Mm. Over time I just developed this pain. I couldn’t figure it out. I finally got a good diagnosis and chondromalacia is where the cartilage is wearing out under your kneecap. And if you continue doing what you’re doing, um, it can be permanent and it can lead to you being in a crippling situation. And so I had to change and I think it was the bike. I think there’s the position, you know, with my, my biomechanic, my shape, whatever that having my feet clipped the pedals going round and round in that position.

Dave (00:26:46):
I think that was what, what, what did it? And so my trainer, the physical therapist who helped me to, uh, rehab from this said never go into a full deep squat. This is never gonna grow back. You know, there’s certain things you should not be doing. And, um, and, I did all the rehab stuff, but then I started CrossFit. Okay. So I’d had these great experiences with lifting weights and although I’d had the advice to not go into the deep squad, I also thought, man, there’s just nothing for the human body, like a squat, as far as strength using the big muscles and everything. I knew what it was like to be in really great, uh, strength shape as I learned from the Bill Phillips thing, and then carried on with, throughout that time of keeping up my strength. Also, there’s so much evidence now, the in critical importance of muscle mass as we age it, it may even be more important for women than men.

Dave (00:27:44):
We, we see these huge statistics between women who lift weights and have much lower, uh, instances of osteoarthritis, for example, osteoporosis. And so for both men and women, keeping muscle strength up is a really critical part of longevity. So I started CrossFit and part of my thing was, you know, I really think that it was the bike that did my knee in. I think if I can control my stance and do the movements of CrossFit. So now CrossFit, what I loved about that was what it says, CrossFit, like every aspect of fitness, endurance, balance, strength, lunge, you know, uh, uh, endurance, right CrossFit. You can just show it up at the gym. And for an hour, one day you’re doing squats another day, you’re doing snatches. And then there was Brad, there was another thing that got me excited. There was certain things in CrossFit that, that were new peaks that I could achieve like a muscle up. Right.

Brad (00:28:43):
Ooh, that’s a tough one. I’m at zero right now. So, uh, I, I look forward to your story and I have to, I have to interrupt because I went to my first CrossFit games, attendance live, and I was watching the what’s called the muscle up biathlon where a muscle up is where you grab the rings and then hoist yourself above to the, um, you know, the familiar position where your arms are straight and your, your butt’s at ring level. And you had to do 10 of those and then jump off and run 200 meters circuit and then come back and do 10. And these guys were going so slow on the 200 meter circuit that I made the mistake of making a wise crack to Sisson, who I was standing with. I’m like, God, can, are any of these guys gonna lift their feet off the ground?

Brad (00:29:24):
I mean, what is this? The shuffle, the shuffle biathlon. And he looked at me and he says, have you ever done a muscle up? And I go, uh, no, it doesn’t look that hard. He goes okay. So we go to the expo and there’s a booth, right. Of all the exhibitors selling stuff. And they have some rings that you can play with and try yourself a muscle up. So yeah, I made my attempt at a muscle up and I jumped off those rings without succeeding. And I’m like much respect to these CrossFit games guys. They are amazing to do 10 of ’em and be able to, you know, Locomote for 200 meters and then go do 10 more and 10 more, absolutely incredibly athletic specimens. And then that broad based fitness competency is what’s so impressive about that whole scene.

Dave (00:30:05):
Yeah. That’s so funny. Yeah, because you, you learned that one is an awesome feat

Brad (00:30:10):
And these poor guys, they would do 7, 8, 9, and then the judge, is there going, Nope, didn’t get that one. And you had to start over. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It was torture brutal.

Dave (00:30:23):
Yeah. Uh, I did the CrossFit games and I, oh, wow. I did, uh, Festivus, there’s a variety of CrossFit style, uh, challenges around and they’re pretty fun to do, and they have everything from row, you know, uh, how F you know, it might even only be 300 meters, but you’re a hundred percent, a hundred percent when you get off that thing after just a couple minutes, uh, at a hundred percent on a rower, you’re pretty beat. And then you get, you go over and you do something else. And, and, uh, anyway, so I, I enjoyed, uh, uh, you know, the challenges there, uh, as well. I, I was never able to do 10 muscle ups in a row. I, I could do about five. Wow. Um, but it took me two years to do one

Brad (00:31:03):
. Yeah. Okay. People, we have a new goal to go try out,

Dave (00:31:08):
Just hoist

Brad (00:31:09):
Yourself up the rings. It’s not that hard.

Dave (00:31:11):
Get,

Brad (00:31:11):
Watch a video. It’s not that hard.

Dave (00:31:12):
Yeah. You, you it’s just like a pull up except you’re getting your whole body over the bar. Mm-hmm, , what’s the big deal. Yeah. Um, and there’s bar muscle up and, and, uh, ring muscle ups. And they’re both very different as well. You have to train differently for, for, for both. But I did CrossFit for a long time, uh, as a matter of fact, right up until COVID, um, I was doing CrossFit and that was fun. And, and for those of you that have never tried CrossFit, if you are in a situation where you just wanna get fit, you want whole body fitness. And, um, you love the idea of just showing up with no pre-planning or preparation, and someone else just gives you your whole warm up. And, and the key to CrossFit, Brad, for new people is put your ego on the shelf.

Dave (00:31:55):
Mm. You have to be able to go in there. And, um, for guys, you know, uh, you, you might be snatching 45 pounds and the girl beside you, who’s half your size is doing 1 25. Right. And so, you know, this is the type of thing where you, you, but you don’t go try that. You’re not gonna gonna impress anybody. You, you have to build up slowly. Um, with all these exercises, you have to have really good form. You have to make sure if you’re gonna do a full depth squat with weight, that you’re not one of these people that ends up on YouTube, with a fun video, everyone else watches. It says, you know, squat fail video. Yeah. Right there. There’s too many of those deadlift fail video. Right. So great form. Focus on, don’t worry about what the guys or the girls, anyone else near you, whether you’re they’re older than you, or younger, you put all that on the shelf and be a hundred percent mindful about all your movements. And that was the key for me. And I rehabbed my knee. Now, chondromalacia will always be there, but what I was able to, to, um, move the way I, I, I needed to, I was able, I read Kelly Starrett’s book becoming a supple leopard. Do you know that book, Brad?

Brad (00:33:07):
Oh, sure. I have it. It’s fantastic. Big magnificent encyclopedia of rehab, prehab, mobility, flexibility. Drills. Yeah.

Dave (00:33:16):
Yeah. And I mentioned it. I’m glad you know about it. I wanna bring it out. I don’t know if it’s been mentioned on your show before probably has, but for those listening, Becoming a Supple Leopard. It saved me because I was thinking I had a permanent condition and my athletic career was over and it wasn’t, I just needed that high level knowledge from Kelly Starrett of how to move my knee. I actually started walking up and down stairs differently after I read that book. Ah, I, I mean, it was pretty amazing for me, foundationally, to find out that I was moving incorrectly and even fundamental ways, but I got to a point I could do a full, deep squat. I could do the muscle ups. Um, I got strong and lean and, and really enjoyed it. And that was a lot of fun. Then COVID came. The gym shut down and, um, and uh, I put up a, a rogue bar in my garage. I bought myself the concept to rowing machine, the same one they have in all the crossed gym CrossFit gyms

Brad (00:34:14):
Before, before they sold out, across the world during COVID ,right?

Dave (00:34:17):
Unfortunately I ordered mine after that and it took me, I bet it was three months. Yeah. I bet from order date to arrival was, was three months. Yeah, it was crazy. Um, but since then, I’ve just kind of done my own thing. And, um, I haven’t gone back to CrossFit. They’re all open again. Um, but my new thing is, is, um, I I’ve just loved it working out at home. I I’ve loved just the, the, keeping it simple, doing it my own way, doing it when I want to. And so now I’m kind of in a mode of, of just working on the, the things that I feel like I need the most important areas. I do a lot of mobility work. I do a combination of cardiovascular strength, a lot of ketlebells. I love ketlebell movement and I love whole body movement of whole body movements. I like thrusters. Um, I, I like, uh, you know, as I look at now, I’m 56 years old now. And the thing I want to avoid at all cause is being in a wheelchair when I’m 80. right. One of the goals. Yeah. I’m gonna be golfing when I’m in it, when I’m in my eighties. Right. And, and to be in a wheelchair in your eighties, it’s not that hard. You just have to not do the things you’re supposed to be doing.

Brad (00:35:36):
You’re headed there by default in today’s world, unless you do something about it. I would argue. Yeah.

Dave (00:35:41):
Perfectly said, perfectly said, I love that. Not to be critical of your grandparent, who is in a wheelchair. Okay. Of course there’s life, there’s car accidents. There’s all kinds of things that can happen. I’m not saying let’s all judge old people in wheelchairs. What I am saying is let’s make sure we are doing what we need to do to avoid that. Uh, as, as long as you know, there’s not an act of God that puts us there, let’s make sure it’s not our fault. Let’s make sure that we are healthy. And so to do that, we need to be working on all the different levers that we can pull. Right? Mobility, strength, flexibility, endurance, great nutrition. Uh, we know, uh, you know, the science behind intermittent fasting is now really solid for both men and women. And for almost all ages, I don’t recommend it under 18 years old, but, intermittent fasting, uh, taking the right supplements.

Dave (00:36:37):
Um, I know from biohacking myself that, um, no matter how well I eat, there are certain supplements I have to take, or I’m gonna be deficient in things. Um, uh, we put together our own product. Brad, Dirobi. We sell supplements online. So huge self-promotion here, but just for a minute. But um, our own product Mimi’s Miracle Multi was put together based on the biohacking of the last 15 years. And, and we’ve learned from hundreds of thousands of people getting their test results, that almost everyone, 76% is deficient in vitamin D, almost everyone is deficient in chromium and zinc. And then there’s certain elements that are really cool to take. You don’t necessarily need them like Maka. We put ma in here, it’s a root vegetable. It helps with libido with energy, et cetera. And so, oh, check that out

Brad (00:37:27):
Brand for those of you watching on YouTube, but

Dave (00:37:29):
Yeah. Interesting. You have it. You’re you’re aware of it. Yeah. And, and so we’ve, we’ve um, just done the research that’s that’s what we’ve done in our company is we’ve put together, not a health food store, right? You don’t need a thousand things. Mm-hmm, , uh, you, you need a handful of things and, and, uh, best to test, not, not guess we’ve designed our products. So people don’t test chances are we’ll knock it outta the park for you because we’ve done it based on hundreds of thousands of other people’s tests. So, uh, the biggies, of course are, you know, take a multivitamin and take minerals. Those are the two biggies we absolutely know from the science that you, you ought to be supplementing those things. And it, and what does supplement mean? It’s supplement supplemental to a healthy diet, healthy carbs, healthy fats, healthy proteins. Those are the building blocks of a good of a good diet and then not eating too much and not eating after dinner and not eating till a little ways into the morning intermittent fasting. So, so that whole combo of things mixed with a fitness routine that covers strength, longevity, balance, accuracy, all of those elements of health, uh, is, is my focus now and what I’m teaching my clients.

Brad (00:38:41):
So you call it the Dirobi Un-diet.

Dave (00:38:45):
Yes.

Brad (00:38:45):
I’d love to hear about that program, why it was named accordingly. You talked about supplements being a part of it, but yeah. Uh, maybe you can talk about some of the other pillars that help, uh, when you’re helping people with that, that prominent goal of losing excess body fat.

Dave (00:39:00):
Yeah. The challenge we had for the first few years is many, many people know what to do, but they have a tough time doing what I call mastering the mundane. They like to go on a diet. It gives them a buzz. They, they like to change what they’re doing. Short term start jogging, eating, right. They gotta goal to lose 40 pounds. They work on it. They lose the weight to 40 pounds. But what we found out is they very rarely have a now what, and they go back to what they were doing before. And so this, this, this cycle of putting on the weight slowly and then having a come to Jesus moment and then taking it all off and then not having a sustainable long term plan. And the reason we called our program, the un-diet is cuz we wanted to break that habit.

Dave (00:39:51):
We wanted to say, look, we wanna give you a program. That’s not a diet. And I had certain elements. Now I’m a, I’m a, a certified fitness nutrition coach. And this is where I got a lot of this from is, um, precision nutrition is arguably the number one nutritional licensing company in on the planet. And that’s where I took my training from. And I’m still taking courses from precision nutrition right now. I’m super excited about the course I’m taking SSR, sleep ,stress, and recovery, which is a new emerging area of, of health. But regardless, these are PhD experts in health and, um, teach long term sustainable results. And from all of that, and from everything I learned from all of our weight loss customers. We called it the end diet because we wanted to get them out of the concept of dieting and into a long term sustainable solution that was reasonable. The seven things are don’t drink, calories, drink water. Right? Drink, make water, your primary drink, eat slowly and mindfully cuz believe it or not, how you eat is more important than what you eat. That, that doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t sound right. But there’s a lot of evidence be behind that. And I mentioned it earlier when you eat and how you eat is actually the first thing to adjust before we talk about what you eat.

Brad (00:41:09):
`That’s, that’s hand in hand, if you’re on the go and rushing through meals and you don’t respect the importance of, you know, graceful celebratory meal times and food preparation, you’re gonna be reaching for quick and convenient, which is by typical definition unhealthy. So that’s right. If, if you, if you have a 30 minute block of time to enjoy, you a quiet, nutritious meal, you’re probably gonna pick, um, you know, you’re gonna make, make great choices.

Dave (00:41:39):
Yeah. And, and, uh, studies show that those who eat slowly eat 20% less other corollary studies show that the average person who’s 40 pounds overweight eats about 20% too much. And so right there, you can often solve your weight problem, just by eating more slowly, it’s that important. And you’re intermittent fasting is number three. Eating a healthy mix of carbs, fats, protein, and getting five to nine servings of veggies a day is the nutritional portion that we teach. Number five is observe a simple supplement strategy so that you are supplementing those things that you just won’t be able to get for whatever reason, even out of a really good diet. Number six is exercise every day. That means seven days a week. And now it can be very simple. Sunday might just be a long leisurely walk and maybe Tuesday as well. One other day might be heavy strength. Another day might be mobility focus. So there’s you, we, you gotta come up with what we call a PMP, a personal movement plan, but the human body is not designed to be sedentary for 24 hours or more at a time. So we do encourage daily movement and even throughout the day, if possible, and then number seven is get seven to nine hours of sleep every night.

Brad (00:42:52):
All right, You got, you got a prop for the Niners here. I I’m in the Niner camp and they, I continue to have a little bit of, you know, um, hesitancy to, to accept my need for what seems to be on the extreme end from most people I, I talk to and associate with. But whenever I find someone stretching that out to nine that’s when I feel the best, I don’t, I don’t know what to say. I wish, you know, I could be more productive and get my workout done and do all these great things if I only needed seven, but we have to all figure that out. And that’s a pretty big gap there, seven to nine. But I think most people are gonna fall inside that window. And, you know, yes, this research about, people thinking, you know, Matthew Walker, sleep expert says there’s, uh, maybe 1% or less than 1% of people that have, uh, genetic signaling for being quote short sleepers. But I believe the research is that there’s 20% or some huge number like that, of people that think that they are adaptable to short sleep, but they’re really not.

Dave (00:43:56):
Correct. Lots of research, not one study, many, many studies, people who self diagnosis, people who can get get by with less sleep are a literally deluding themselves. And it’s a, it’s a downward cycle because their mind is not functioning correctly. Okay. Because of the lack of sleep, they make poor decisions,

Brad (00:44:16):
Poor judgment.

Dave (00:44:17):
They have poor judgment. They self,

Brad (00:44:19):
I feel fine. I promise. Okay, thank you.

Dave (00:44:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I’m a great sleeper. And then they go into the sleep study and the sleep scientists a week later are kind of chuckling to themselves and saying, yeah, let, let’s help you understand the difference between what you thought when you started the study and reality. Uh, yeah.

Brad (00:44:37):
I love the other research where if you’re sleep deprived or you’re not sleep optimal, you do everything slower. So like in the workplace, everything’s just a little behind you get through your emails slower, you get through your presentation a little more slowly. And so you need to work longer, which causes you to compromise on sleep. But then the kicker is that, um, you don’t realize that you’re doing everything more slowly because you’re sleep deprived. You just think this is normal.

Dave (00:45:04):
Yes, that’s right. As human beings, Brad, one of the things I’ve learned, cause I’m fascinated. Like I can tell you’re fascinated with studies as well. I love studies. I subscribe to journals, where I get the latest in all kinds of studies and I find them so fascinating. I love to read through these things. And one of the things I’ve come to understand over about the last five years since I’ve been really diving into the studies is that I’ve come to understand that we have flaws in our firmware. You know how we have electronic devices that occasionally say you need a firmware update in this device. I don’t

Brad (00:45:38):
Even, I don’t even know what that word means, but uh, I, I do it. Yeah. The, the, uh, oh yeah. The photo frame needs new firmware. Otherwise it’s showing glitches. Yeah.

Dave (00:45:47):
Yeah. So we all know what software is, right? Mm-hmm so you can add software that does a new functional, cool thing on your computer, but the firmware is the underlying software behind that. So the very computer just to work, right. Just to turn on and do the thing it has to do before it even runs the software is the firmware. Okay. That’s the easiest way to think of it. Okay. So every now and then the firmware, the thing that makes your device work at the most basic level has got to be updated. And as human beings, I’m absolutely convinced, Brad, that our firmware is wrong. We do not do well at self diagnosing. Whether it comes to our diet, our exercise plan, our sleep, we actually ought to be more humble, more reliant on others. People love us. We gotta ask more questions. Hmm.

Dave (00:46:31):
Those of us that are married, but Hey honey, what do you think? How do you think I perform in this area and now humble yourself and get ready for a different answer sometimes than you think you, the way, the way you feel. And so this seven to nine thing, for example, I’m actually a seven. Now. I used to be an eight for a long, long time. I was really good with eight hours, but as I’ve gotten a little bit older, just the last year or two, I found out that I was starting to feel kind of groggy in the mornings. I was getting a good eight, sometimes nine hours of sleep and it, it just wasn’t doing it for me. And I remember that a few days, uh, out of a week I would get up early. I’d just wake up early and feel refreshed.

Dave (00:47:13):
Even though I hadn’t slept as long as I wanted to. And I started setting the alarm at 5 45, I tried to be in bed by 10, 10 30, setting the alarm at 5 45. And Brad, I just felt like a million bucks. I felt like I got more done. It wasn’t like this crazy thing like you described. I was still getting seven hours. I was not going below that. And yet I found that if I slept more than seven hours, that I actually didn’t have the same energy in the mornings, didn’t have as good of workouts. Uh, and didn’t, didn’t feel quite as good throughout the day. So it is well worth experimenting with sometimes you actually need to experiment with the shorter window. So don’t, don’t assume, uh, that because most people don’t get enough sleep that most people have a longer window for those of you listening. So it is a seven to nine hour. We have tons of research on this, that that is the window. And for you, it could be seven, could be seven and a half, could be eight, eight and a half could be nine. And I recommend doing your own studies on this. Spend a month at a time, just one month and maybe guess where you think it’s best do it for a month and shorten or lengthen and do it another month.

Brad (00:48:22):
They also recommend, you know, you get away from the stresses of your daily life, go on vacation. Make sure you get double blackout curtains in your hotel room or whatever, and then check the clock without any alarms or interference. And, um, that’s kind of helpful too, because I think we can get so, uh, wired up on the, the stresses and the, the worries of daily life that we’re gonna awaken, um, in the middle of the night, thinking about problems, grabbing our mobile device, writing down, uh, or pad and paper. And there’s so many things that can interfere with sleep and yeah, duration is a good, um, that’s a good thing to discuss, but then there’s also the quality, uh, and whether you’re getting, you’re getting a lot done in those seven to eight or nine hours, as opposed to tossing and turning. And, um, you know, that that’s a whole nother picture of your, your sleeping environment and yeah. Um, you know, the temperature of the room, all

Dave (00:49:22):
That, the bed. Yeah. You know, we, we’ve got a bed that I would’ve never have thought we’d ever pay that much money for a bed. And I gotta tell you it’s worth every penny.

Brad (00:49:32):
Is it a temperature cooled mattress or what do you,?

Dave (00:49:35):
It is, and it’s a sleep, it’s a sleep number. And, we tried several. We, we, we tried, we we’ve tried to decide what are the very best beds out there. And we tried, ’em all out. Um, sometimes I would love one and my wife wouldn’t like it as much or vice versa. And finally we found the one that we both were comfortable on and had a really good night’s sleep on was the sleep number. So we got that and her number is very different than mine. This is the one that you pump up, right? So you have a, a control on each side of the bed, for you have your sleep number. Mine is 55 and hers is like 40. So my wife is actually sleeping on a softer mattress than I am, and they have these chambers and you just said it.

Dave (00:50:19):
And, um, so, you know, and then there’s a lot of apps, you know, for those of you listening, if you’ve never tried an app they’re inexpensive, maybe like $4 to buy a sleep app, that you can put beside your bed. It listens to you all night long. Uh, and then some of these, you can, you can, if you have an aura ring, if you have a Fitbit, um, this is a, an area of great opportunity for exploration and being your own science experiment. And, and it’s really interesting to go through and spend some of time. Um, but it, but if you’re not gonna put on your science hat and go that far down the rabbit hole, um, the things, Brad, said, I’d say, uh, developer develop a, uh, ritual, uh, just, you know, and that can be as simple as do not look at electronics within 30 minutes of going to bed, do not eat after dinner.

Dave (00:51:07):
Now, this is why I talk about intermittent fasting, stopping eating after dinner is one of the most critical aspects of your sleep ritual, because your body’s done digesting the food. So what does it do now? It gets to balance the hormones cleanse while you’re sleeping. Your brain is getting rid of toxins. You have to be in deep sleep for the toxins of your brain to flush down the brain stem. Okay. If you never hit deep sleep, this is another reason why you’re you’re, you’re not gonna be at your best mentally, cuz your brain’s not able to cleanse. So all these little things, a little sleep ritual, keeping the room, really dark, having a great mattress testing, whether you should sleep seven, seven and a half eight, eight and a half nine, figuring all those things out is, is one of the best self experiments you could do.

Brad (00:51:53):
So back to those seven pillars of the yeah, Dirobi Un-diet and your recommendation for eating was pretty, uh, general and sensible. So I’m curious, it sounds like you’re not locked into a particular niche diet like keto is the way to go or, uh, low carb or, uh, uh, you know, vegan or carnivore. You just want us to get healthy levels of carbs, protein, and fat. Um, yes, that sounds like a good starting point. And maybe you can explore further.

Dave (00:52:27):
It is. And, and the latest fasting research from, uh, Victor Longo and his crowd down there at USC, which is some of the most respected nutritional experts in the world are showing that many of these diets, keto especially, is really great for the first five years, but then your longevity starts to suffer. And so, and so this is the problem with some of these named diets, Brad is that our body is absolutely adapted to use carbohydrates. I mean, bananas, right? I mean, root vegetables. These things are things that our ancient ancestors ate for eons, okay. And meat and vegetables. These are all things our body is adapted to use. We, our body knows what to do with plants. It knows what to do with meat. It knows what to do with, with vegetables and nuts and seeds.

Dave (00:53:19):
And so one of the reasons why we recommend carbs, fats, and proteins in a good balance is because when you start paying attention to those things and the quality of those macronutrients, and you eat them in balance. Now what I would do, you guys can download a free book at my website at dirobi.com, click on the resources page and download the un-dit PDF, because it’ll give you the exact description of how much of each tea and a little more detail that, you know, take a couple hours on the podcast, but it’s a free book. You just grab it and download it and go through the detail on this. But what happens, Brad, is most Americans by far are eating way too many carbs of the wrong type, not near enough protein. And when they get it, it’s of the wrong type and too much fat of the wrong type.

Dave (00:54:13):
And so the focus on quality, carbs, fats, and proteins with generally less carbs than most people eat and converting your unhealthy fats to healthy fats, and then getting healthy proteins with every meal. Now you’ve, you’re feeding your machine, everything it needs to rebuild from those workouts to have that muscle strength that we talked about. That’s important, not just for physical performance today, but for longevity to have the recovery. And while we’re sleeping to have those hormones. See, this is the problem with keto H uh, carbohydrates. Everyone talks about carbs, turning into sugar and how terrible that is. That’s fine, but carbs are also very critical for hormones. When you cut out carbs, your’re cutting out a lot of things that your body system needs. And so I’m not, I’m not saying we have, we have to have a whole lot of carbs, but we shouldn’t be po-pooing them as much as many people in the health industry are, in my opinion, what we should be doing instead is making sure that the carbs we’re eating are very healthy.

Brad (00:55:16):
Yeah, very well said. I’m particularly interested in this topic right now, after engaging with Jay Feldman Energy Balance podcast, we did two shows. I did, uh, four follow up recordings, reflecting on his insights. And one of ’em that slapped me in the face was he said, when you’re restricting carbs and doing keto and, and fasting and doing time restricted feeding, you are activating stress hormones. And that is the actual mechanism by which these, uh, dietary practices work. You get enhanced cell repair, you get anti-inflammatory effects. You get a moon boosting effects when you’re in a fastest state, your body’s working wonderfully. It’s the most efficient the body ever works, but it must be acknowledged that this is a stress response. It’s a survival response against starvation making keytones in the liver is a perfect example. We’re starving. We can’t find anymore berries, and we still have to hunt for three more days in order to survive.

Brad (00:56:12):
And so we will just pump into the bloodstream, this beautiful energy source that we need. Um, and it has so many wonderful effects. Yeah. I like the time, the timestamp that, uh, if falter, Longo’s putting that on the, uh, the process that’s very relevant. Uh, but for me, I’m also reflecting where I have these, uh, heightened peak performance goals. Uh, yeah. I’m also in the advanced age groups. So I have some stress factors counting against me already, because I’m trying to do these crazy workouts. I’m trying to recover. Yes. I don’t have, uh, disease risk or things where the ketogenic diet can be lifesaving and transformational for someone in the trapped in obesity. And so if I’m strictly pursuing peak performance, I think the gateway is to ditch all manner of nutrient deficient processed foods, because they’re such a disaster in every way. And then beyond that, making sure that you are nourishing yourself with sufficient fuel of all forms that we need especially carbohydrates and possibly in alignment with your workout, energy expenditure would be a, a sensible choice as well.

Brad (00:57:19):
Like Liver King. You probably know him. He’s the internet sensation now on Instagram, my buddy, Brian of Ancestral Supplements. And he always talks about earning his carbs because he’s done some phenomenal workout. And that’s a nice concept for people, especially if they’re trying to drop excess body fat. I think you earn your nutritious meals and you eat to sat, tidy in a nice environment, nice and slow, like Dave recommends. And then now you’re clicking rather than doing that. Now, what what’d you call it at the end of the diet? They say, now what?

Dave (00:57:52):
Yeah, they don’t have a, a what next, like, there’s what

Brad (00:57:56):
Next, what next

Dave (00:57:56):
Is revert

Brad (00:57:57):
Back to, yeah.

Dave (00:57:58):
Back to what they’re doing. And, and, and not to point fingers, Brad, it’s tough. We live in a society that is conspiring to make us unhealthy. Many people have a spouse at a home arrangement where the they wanna get healthier, but if they’re significant other doesn’t want to, it’s gonna be really, really hard. And so my wife and I have different tastes, we have different goals. Luckily she’s likes to be healthy, uh, but not overly. So she’s not against ice cream. Right. And so am I going to be that, that guy that will never enjoy ice cream with my wife? Right. And to me, my answer is no, but you know what? On a Friday night at a nice restaurant, she is perfectly happy to share a dessert with me. We’ve been sharing desserts for 30 years. We love it. It’s a fun thing. We don’t each get our own. So the small things, sometimes, Brad, that these things are on a spectrum, not a all or nothing. It’s not, you know, if you make it all or nothing, you can never have ice cream. You can never have a piece of cake. You get to, you can never have a treat. In precision nutrition, they talked about, talk about not calling anything, a cheat meal, .

Brad (00:59:06):
right

Dave (00:59:06):
We should never be telling ourselves that we’re cheating. It is perfectly normal to have a treat on occasion. The problem in our society, we have too many treats. if you have a treat and once or twice a week, your body will process it just fine.

Brad (00:59:22):
Yeah. Especially if it’s sugar that you can go burn off and contrast the refined industrial seed oils, which are packed into most of the process treats and indulgences that we have. Those should probably never be consumed by the human. And that opens up, uh, a, a great observation that if you are gonna have a treat, let’s make sure that is the most well chosen spectacularly crafted indulgence from, you know, the, the, the homemade bakery that you have to drive across town to go get a slice of their cheesecake, cuz it’s to die for. That’s a huge difference from having on your grocery list. Oh yeah. I need to go get some more frozen cheesecake in the box that has all kinds of chemicals in it and is mass produced. And, that’s, that’s what enjoying life is all about. I think is, you know, having it be celebratory rather than routine,

Dave (01:00:12):
I’ll tell you a secret. This may not be a secret to sub, but to others, it will be. And that is chocolate. We’ve all heard this research on chocolate, right? The chocolate has a high antioxidant properties up, but the chocolate we eat is Snickers bars. It’s stuff from the gas station. That’s this complete junk. But, if you go to a great store, like, uh, a, a place that sells these, the chocolate that has three ingredients, mm-hmm , you know what I’m talking about? It has coconut, it has cocoa beans, it has butter and it has sugar, three ingredients, right? And the beans are what give it most of the flavor. And these things come from South America. They come from Madagascar, they come from various countries. Have you got a bar? You can show us.

Brad (01:00:55):
I got so many bars and my listeners are

Dave (01:00:57):
So

Brad (01:00:59):
They’re, they’re so confused to hear me talking about chocolate again and again, secret me.

Dave (01:01:04):
You’ve already,

Brad (01:01:04):
You’re already there. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate you bringing that point up cuz the selectivity is so important and to get away from the mass produced stuff.The commodity products that are generally made with inferior, uh, beans as the source. And, um, I had a whole show with Shawn Asklinosie, gourmet chocolate maker. And he talked about the concept that if you go to the store and purchase a bar, that’s in that typical familiar price point of around a dollar ounce. So you’re paying three bucks and you’re getting a chocolate bar and you think that’s fine. You are for sure, supporting child slave labor in Africa from the poorly regulated nations, because there’s no way for the farmer to make a fair price when you are purchasing a bar for $3. And so it implies that they harvested these beans, with haphazard means they roast, roast the shit out of the rotten beans so that you can’t taste the rotten taste, dump a bunch of sugar in, and there’s your Hershey bar.

Brad (01:02:01):
I just lost another sponsor, sorry, but you should expect to pay around $3 ounce or more for a gourmet chocolate bar that’s properly sourced. And that’s when you mentioned beans being the first ingredient, cacoa beans that implies that the chocolate maker source those beans directly from the farmer. And you go on a chocolate tour, like, uh, Theo chocolate factory in Seattle. And they have the gunny sacks right there that were shipped in from the equatorial nation where the chocolate was made. And now you’re talking about a connoisseur in the same manner as a wine drinker where you can get, uh, snooty in particular and then your chocolate hobby just feels that much more enjoyable.

Dave (01:02:40):
Okay. This is so funny. Mylast chocolate bar that I bought, these things are the bomb and I, we were in Seattle a month ago and we took the ferry out to Brainbridge Island and there was a fine candy store at Bainbridge island on the main street. Cute little place. If you’re ever in Seattle, take the ferry to Bainbridge island, the glass. Great. Love it. Yeah. And uh, I bought myself a $13 Madagascar bar. Okay. Guess what? I haven’t finished it yet. I bought it a month ago. These fine chocolates. I break off a piece mm-hmm and then I eat a tiny bit. And I remember we talk, we talked about eating solely mindfully. This is really fun with chocolate, right? You put it into your mouth and you just let it melt. And it takes a long time.

Dave (01:03:25):
These fine chocolates will keep you satiated and enjoying chocolate for a long time. One square is a full dessert for me. And so Brad, everything you said about this, I just say absolutely. You know, I’m just clapping my hands going. This is the way to go. And, and that $13 bar is, I don’t know how many squares were in that $13 bar. I’m gonna guess 10. Okay. I probably have four left each of those 10 is like a full dessert for me and literally lasts as long as it takes maybe longer for the average person to eat a bowl of ice cream or some candy. And I enjoy it just as much, because it’s so, good’s so fine. Right. You can tell you’re having a fine gourmet kind of an experience instead of, instead of munching and, you know, just shoving something sugary down your throat.

Dave (01:04:19):
It’s a completely different experience. So it sounds like you and your listeners are way ahead of me on this already, but I’m just gonna, you know, put in the plug anyway, that it’s a personal thing I do as well. For those of you that aren’t doing it yet. Go out there. There’s what I found Brad is there’s usually a local grocery store, uh, often there’s, usually in most towns, one grocery store, it’s a little more expensive that has a finer selection of stuff that will often have a variety of these bars. And so if you just do a little experimentation, if you don’t know about them, you’ll often find in your local area, close by maybe a store you don’t often shop at cuz it’s a little more expensive. Um, and then while you’re there, maybe think about why that’s a little more expensive, maybe look at their produce area and compare it to the place you’re shopping.

Dave (01:05:06):
If you’re typically going to the cheapest place, that’s another plug for eating better, right? Sometimes, uh, like for example, uh, this issue you talked about with, with a child labor and cheap chocolate to me is a very similar thing with eggs. Mm-hmm right. I don’t wanna support factory egg making. I don’t like the way the chickens are treated. Uh, I don’t like the environment. I don’t like anything about that industry. I, I, I don’t like the chemicals, nothing. And people say, well, a dozen eggs should be a dollar 50 , but the fact is a dozen eggs should probably be $5 because when a local farmer grows them, right, the proper way with hens, it actually pluck out there on a field. They’re not stuck in a cage. They’re not full of chemicals. They’re not shot up. They, their legs aren’t so weak that they can’t stand on them, all of those things, right?

Dave (01:06:03):
So there are certain areas, the same with meat. We have a beef coming, a half a beef, me and two buddies. We buy our meat together. Uh, we, we finished a pig up recently. We have a beef coming. I’m buying half the beef. I tell the we it’s from a local rancher. We, we have it sent to the butcher. We tell the butcher how we want it cut up. And one of my friends is getting a quarter. The other friend’s getting a quarter. Me and my wife are getting a half and uh, and the price is gonna be $5 a pound. That includes the steaks. Okay.

Brad (01:06:39):
Go straight to the rancher. People, let’s get

Dave (01:06:42):
Hooked up here, go to a local rancher. Absolutely.

Brad (01:06:44):
Give us, give us the link in the show notes, man. I want half a cow too.

Dave (01:06:48):
Hey, Google. There’s, there’s some really great, uh, websites out there, Brad, that tell you that. And I wish I knew them off the top of my head, but if you just Google it. Google how to find local beef, something like that. And what you’ll find is there are people who have curated these lists and they’ll help you find a local farm where you can buy grass fed beef and there. And what happens is you have to be patient because often they only butcher once a year, something like that. But it’s more humane. The animal has a real life, right? And, and so like for anything on this planet to live, something else has to die. Whether you’re eating a carrot or spinach, it dies, right. Mm-hmm, living things, feed, living things. This is the way it works. Right.

Brad (01:07:33):
And if you’re vegan that, that carrot and that spinach, some, some rodents and some mice and some snakes were all killed in the processing of that agricultural field. So, um, it’s, you’re asking me where to draw the line. And I always like to do that quip back because yeah, you can’t escape that reality.

Dave (01:07:49):
You can’t escape. The reality. One of the best books I’ve read on this subject is called the Marvelous Pigness of Pigs by Joel Salatin. I highly recommend the book. And it, it really help people, uh, from all spectrums, whether you’re a vegetarian or a carnivore, I don’t care where you’re coming from. I highly recommend this book and it really helped me personally to change my buying habits, to understand the whole ecosystem of supporting local farmers, of buying food that’s raised ethically. And this whole concept of that, you just, you just mentioned, you know, the ethics of it, the economy of it, the true economy is that eggs are $5 a dozen, not $1.50. That’s what eggs are actually supposed to be the dollar 50 eggs. Just like you talked about the cheap chocolate bar depends on child labor, the cheap eggs depend on inhumane behavior and chemicals and a lot of stuff we, we don’t wanna support. So at least that’s my opinion. And I think many people, if they researched it, I, I think many people would agree with me if they just knew a little bit more or just followed the food chain back and knew where they were getting their food.

Brad (01:08:58):
Okay. Gosh, I mean, it’s indisputable. Come on. I, I don’t think we have a counter opinion for someone to say that, Hey, these chickens are fine and they’re 24/7 lit you know, they, they keep the lights on because the chicken can’t sleep unless it’s dark. And so they just blast them with light their entire life so that they’re growth cycles and then shooting ’em up with hormones. So they just produce more, produce more and everything’s faster and make for more profit. We’ve received a lot of feedback over the years, Dave, on our dietary recommendations, uh, from the Primal Blueprint and the other books that we published. And, um, there’s a lot of, uh, there’s a lot of backlash where, um, we’re accused of being recommending an elitist type diet, an expensive diet. And it’s such a . I mean, I appreciate all forms of feedback, but it is a little frustrating when you, first of all, look at the discretionary spending of the average person who is complaining that eating a grass fed beef is too expensive for them.

Brad (01:09:56):
And there was a great presentation. It was a Paleo Effects a while ago where someone did a compare and contrast of, you know, calling takeout and going to fast food. And it was $9. And then the Slurpee was another $4. And then the pint of ice cream was $5 versus someone who went to the farmer’s market, got a bunch of produce, made seven salads, uh, and bought some grass fed steak, which was expensive. But again, you’re getting such nutrient density that you don’t need to shovel in fast food burgers in contrast. And, um, uh, you know, I have this carnivore scores, food rankings chart, where you, we have the most nutritious foods in the world and in tiered order and at the very top is liver, please source grass fed because it’s important. And to get the very best, but you know how cheap liver is, it’s incredibly cheap because they’re not out, they’re throw high consumer demand for it

Dave (01:10:48):
When they butcher it, they, they throw a lot of the organ meats out.

Brad (01:10:51):
Right? Yeah. And so then you have the oily cold water fish family: sardines, mackrell, anchovies, herring, and salmon. And by and large, the most nutritious fish are the cheapest and the canned sardines, if that’s your game and you wanna eat exceptionally well, you can do it on, on such an incredible budget. It’s like a, a top ramen college student budget, if you’re smart about it.

Dave (01:11:16):
Yeah. And when you combine those with the principles I’m teaching of, of intermittent fasting and eating solely and mindfully, remember what I said about just eating 20% less? Well, that’s 20% less money too. Right? So that’s the whole big picture. Brad. It comes together that most people eat too much. Uh, you talk about eating out now. Again, I, I am not a zealot I’m against zealousy. I’m not saying that I don’t,

Brad (01:11:44):
I’m in favor of it, Dave. I like, I like Zealousy. Did you make a, that word? Is that a real word?

Dave (01:11:49):
Zealousy is a word and

Brad (01:11:50):
Good. I’m gonna make a poem like jealousy, jealousy. I can’t, I can feel your jealousy because I got so much zealousy. Oh, I love it.

Dave (01:11:57):
Oh, it’s gonna be a hit. I can tell already. Um, but zealousy is being overly charged about things it’s being too picky about things it’s being, uh, well again from precision nutrition, I would, I pull out the word spectrum, think of these things on a spectrum. Can you get every bit of meat from a local farm every time? Can you never ever have a fast food meal with your teenage child who really wants you to just take ’em and get ’em a meal right now? And, and I would say the answer is shift closer to the healthy side. Mm-hmm within reason mm-hmm when you’re gonna buy your meat, try to figure out where to buy it from a guess. What, when you get, make your first purchase of a pig or a beef from a local farm, like I’m talking about, you’re gonna fill your freezer with meat. Good.

Brad (01:12:43):
Right. I might emptying my, my water plunge freezer if I, if I get enough, but in the meanwhile, uh, I, I gotta put a plug in for Butcher Box, cuz I, most of my diet comes from a single click of a button every month. Oh, perfect. And it’s so convenient. So affordable and comparison to the sticker shock you might get when you go to an elite supermarket. And so, you know, there’s ways to do it. If we just in sourcing local. Oh my gosh. All that fun stuff.

Dave (01:13:10):
Well, Butcher Box is fantastical and it’s high butcher box is getting you the best of both worlds at Butcher Box. You’re combining the convenience, right? This is the problem with buying local. Like I said, I’ve waited six months for this beef. Mm-hmm not, everyone’s ready to do that. Right. Butcher Box. You you’ll get it right now. So the reason we eat the $1.50 eggs and the cheap meat is cuz it’s right there right now we can go to the store, we can get it. And so I do like Butcher Box for that reason. Plus those people that live in a big city, or it’s just gonna be really hard to find grass fed beef. So I realize that’s not practical for everybody, but, but we, we do what we can. You just, you, you just take each different area of your life, each different area of nutrition.

Dave (01:13:52):
If you live in an area where there’s vegetable, co-ops you join the co-op and you get dropped off, uh, you know, organic produce every Friday afternoon. And sometimes it’s vegetables, you would not have gone and chosen at the store. So you Google them and you learn how to prepare them. And suddenly you found out, Hey, this is a great vegetable. We’re gonna add this as part of our ongoing thing. So again, it’s that spectrum. It’s it’s shooting for a percentage, not a perfect, no one’s gonna eat perfectly. I, I don’t care who you are in the United States of America right now. I do not believe there’s a single person who has a perfect diet. And if there is, they’re probably kind of whacked out. Like, I don’t know if I want them to be my friend. They’re probably not a normal person. I don’t know.

Brad (01:14:32):
Liver King’s got the most perfect diet of anyone I’ve seen and um, he would not be considered normal by any stretch, but I really like you highlighting that point that we have to take, uh, these baby steps in order for it to feel comfortable and sustainable and not fall into that category that you mentioned about, you know, what’s next and, uh,

Dave (01:14:52):
Overzealous, extremism. Yeah. Yeah. Being so afraid. You, you can’t eat anything you’re starving, but you’re not gonna stop for fast food because yeah, it’s just again, these are personal decisions to make, but I just think it’s also, we also know from human behavior that many times people with all or nothing thinking that I have to eat this way every time, all the time, those people actually don’t have the best health. What you said earlier about stress. We are firing cortisol all the time. We have our fight or flight hormones. We have we’re running on too much adrenaline. When we just to talk about hormones in our country. Our bodies, you talked a few times, you’ve used the word ancestral and paleo. Those are super interesting words. In those times there was no electronic lighting there wasn’t television there wasn’t Netflix.

Dave (01:15:39):
There were there wasn’t instant communication with people across the globe. We didn’t hear the negative news from everywhere on the planet. Every time it happened. We mostly were around our family. Think of hunter gatherers in groups of 150 people. Okay. Yes, there’d be some negative news, but there’d also be a lot of joy. There’d be laughing around a campfire. There’d be nights of really deep sleep in the, in nature, in a dark un- electric lit area. Right? And so our bodies, there’s a lot of, a lot of evidence and a lot of theory that, that mentally hormonally, physically, our bodies have not had the evolutionary time to adapt to the life and the modern lifestyle that, that we live in. And we can’t go back. None of us can go back to living around the campfire with our 150 friends and not hear anyone else as opinions or, you know, turn off social media, turn off the news, not hear about everything, but, but we ought to at least try. We don’t have to listen to the news every day. We don’t have to grab every single negative thing that’s happening or know about every protest and every problem. Right? And so, uh, our hormones are whacked by this stuff. We’re living at too high level of stress all the time. And our health should be an area that’s helping us reset from that unwind from a lot of that. And so if we make our health an area of high stress

Dave (01:17:08):
, then we’re just pouring more gas on that terrible fire. Continued bad sleep. Yeah. Continued stress, continued worry. Right? And so there’s striking this balance and trying to live with turning off the lights half an hour before bed stopping social media before sleep, um, spending more time in nature, you know, spending more time in meditation, doing those things, to counteract all those forces that are acting on us. So we can’t get away from the darkening of the, of the room, right. Getting that electric light shut out so that, so our body can, can, uh, have a more natural circadian rhythm. So these are all, these are all, yeah, the baby steps. I like that baby steps. But we, we need to do it in all areas of our, of our life.

Brad (01:17:56):
Wow. That’s a beautiful summary and, uh, touching on so many, so many areas, we started with speed golf. We got into ancestral health by the end, Dave. Sherwin, people, just crushing it. The long awaited Dave Sherwin show is dropped and, boy, so much to, to think about. And you’re a very inspirational guy. Everything was said with a smile and a kind gentle approach. So I encourage people to, to check out all your work over there. Um, the Dirobi health show and the, the, um, uh, the Dirobi UN diet, anything else you wanna plug or some where, where we should find you?

Dave (01:18:33):
Uh, I have my podcast, as you mentioned, the Dirobi health show. And, um, I love that I’ve done. I interviewed 200, uh, different experts on there. So I’d recommend that and that people maybe just scroll through and maybe find an expert or somebody that looks really interesting to them and see if there’s anything over there of interest on that resources page that I mentioned earlier, that actually several great things. Uh, some of them are single pagers. You can stick on your fridge for some of these principles. Uh, one of them I really like is called the virtuous cycle. That’s a PDF. You can just click on, you don’t have to enter your email or anything to get that one, just click on it, print it off. And it gives you a 24 hours of living this way that we talked about. What’s happening, hormonally, physically, how to implement these seven things into your life.

Dave (01:19:16):
The book I mentioned earlier, our supplements, um, you know, we, we put two years on average into developing any of our individual supplements and, uh, uh, we have, uh, and, and, and, and the success of that has been fantastic for us. We have a top selling product on Amazon. We have multiple products that do really well on Amazon, otherwise. Our eat any eyes, um, are, are eat anything. Prebiotic probiotic. Enzyme is a life changer for many people with digestive issues. And so, uh, we have a variety of products, you know, people could scroll through and look through and read about and see if there’s one that might work better for them. There’s a very good chance that our multi is better than whatever. Uh, a lot of people are, are listening right now are taking, uh, because many multis are just very poorly designed.

Dave (01:20:03):
They’re, they’re designed to sound good, but not to be effective. They they’re designed to have a long, long list of stuff. That sounds great. But the fact is when you eat the way I’m talking about you do get most of your nutrients from the food. That’s what you really wanna do. You want to get most of those micronutrients from the protein, fat and carbs of the, the whole foods. And we’ve designed our multi to support that, to give you the rest, the stuff that is really hard to get. One of the big ones, Brad, is chromium. If you don’t eat chromium, you don’t have chromium your body can’t store it. So that’s when we put in our multi. So every day you get it, otherwise you, you would have a heck of a time not being deficient in chromium. So that’s just a, a few thoughts I I’d throw out there in, in closing

Brad (01:20:51):
Dave Sherwin, people, thanks for listening. Da da,

Brad (01:20:58):
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