Hey listeners, it’s time for the Light Show with Scott Chaverri, founder of Mito Red Light!

He is doing some amazing work with his therapeutic red light exposure and the familiar panels that you can find on mitoredlight.com, the most powerful and the most affordable red light panels on the market. But, he’s also an inventor at heart who loves to spend his time tinkering with all kinds of different technology. And at the end of the show, you’re gonna hear about some of his dreams and big picture ideas that are really fascinating—one of them has to do with how unhealthy our typical sources of indoor light are and the popularity of energy efficient LED lights, which are constantly flickering (120 times per second)—something that is not good for the brain. But as you will hear, Scott is actually working on a solution for that, and it could change the planet.

In this episode you will learn about the wonderful story of how red light therapy can improve your health and the ways it improves your mitochondrial function will finally be explained in detail so you can really understand all the science and the research behind this and why red light panels work. You will hear some great takeaways from this show, such as why 10 minutes is the ideal exposure time and why more is not better with your red light practice. It was so interesting to hear Scott explain the whys behind the health practice of therapeutic red light exposure—a health practice I have been committed to for the past five years now. Every day, I devotedly stand in front of my panel, exposing my eyeballs and other important balls to the red lights for the optimal duration.

If you want to know the science behind why I do this and why this works so efficiently, you will love listening to this informative show with Scott.

TIMESTAMPS:

Scott Chaverri is here to talk about therapeutic red light exposure. Many of the indoor lights we have are not healthy.  [00:53]

Scott started on this journey of exploring the scientific benefits of red light therapy when he himself was dealing with health problems. [03:15]

Red light therapy helps with testosterone. [07:18]

How does red light therapy benefit sleep? [10:32]

So the safest and most beneficial parts of that UV spectrum are helping with mitochondrial function, cell repair, removal of waste products, that kind of thing. [14:12]

If you’re worried about photoaging your skin and you don’t want to be in direct sunlight, go to a green space, sit in the shade. [20:59]

Do we always need to wear sunglasses? [26:17]

Spending too much time in the sun is counterproductive. How is red light therapy different? [30:47]

So many people tend to trade their health for dollars. [36:11]

Besides red light therapy, what else is going on in this area? [40:06]

Some people might put green tea bags on their crow’s feet area for part of the red light therapy. Sometimes it helps with hair growth. [42:53]

How does a hydrogen water bottle work? [48:26]

The LED lights that we are exposed to so much have some drawbacks. [52:28]

LINKS:

• Brad Kearns.com
• Brad’s Shopping page
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• Mitoredlight.com
• Mito Hydro Water Bottle

LISTEN:

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TRANSCRIPT:

Brad (00:00:00):
Welcome to the B.rad podcast, where we explore ways to pursue peak performance with passion throughout life without taking ourselves too seriously. I’m Brad Kearns, New York Times bestselling author, former number three world-ranked professional triathlete and Guinness World Record Masters athlete. I connect with experts in diet, fitness, and personal growth, and deliver short breather shows where you get simple, actionable tips to improve your life right away. Let’s explore beyond the hype, hacks, shortcuts, and sciencey talk to laugh, have fun and appreciate the journey. It’s time to B.rad.

Scott (00:00:38):
I do believe people are sunlight deficient, but then when you also realize that the vast majority of the soul spectrum is infrared, again, if you’re sunlight deficient, you’re infrared deficient. And so it makes sense.

Brad (00:00:53):
Hey listeners, it’s time for the Light Show with Scott Chaverri, founder of Mito Red Light. He is doing some amazing work with his therapeutic red light exposure and the familiar panels that you can find on mito red light.com, the most powerful and the most affordable red light panels on the market. But he’s also an inventor at heart and is tinkering with all kinds of different technology. And at the end of the show, you’re gonna hear about some of his dreams and big picture ideas that are really fascinating. One of ’em has to do with how unhealthy our typical sources of indoor light are, and the LEDs that are so popular and energy efficient. But they’re flickering, man. They’re flickering at, what is it? Uh, 120 times per second. And that is not good for the brain. So he’s working on a solution for that that could change the planet.

Brad (00:01:55):
But the wonderful, uh, story of how red light therapy can improve your health, improve your mitochondrial function will finally be explained in detail so you can really understand all the science and the research behind this and why red light panels work. There’s some interesting takeaways. One of them is that it’s a hormetic stressor, right? So Scott talks about 10 minutes being the ideal exposure time, and he’ll tell you why that more is not better with your red light practice. But it’s really interesting to learn the whys behind the health practice of therapeutic red light exposure. Let’s say I’m here about five years into it now, where I devotedly stand in front of my panel every day, exposing my eyeballs and other important balls to the red lights for the optimal duration. And you’re gonna learn why it’s so helpful for the balls and other areas of your body. <laugh> Scott Chaverri Mito Red Light, Scott Chaverri mito red light. I’m so glad to connect with you. And we’re gonna throw down an important podcast about all manner of red light therapy and, and cutting edge red light associated products. ’cause you’re the go-to guy.

Scott (00:03:11):
I thank you for saying that. And I’m, I’m very excited to talk to you today.

Brad (00:03:15):
So I think we could start back in, what was it, 2019 when you started to get the, the wheels moving and your total immersion into this world of red light therapy. And I’d love to know how, you know, what the, what the inspiration was to get mito red light started, and then we’ll, of course, we’ll transition into, uh, the science and the health benefits. But it is a pretty, a amazing story of, you know, you came from a disparate career and then started getting more and more focused on health, I guess, and take it away.

Scott (00:03:49):
Yeah. I would say, well, the kind of, the genesis would certainly be my own health challenges. I think I suffered with a lot of health challenges, like many people, bad acne, uh, insomnia, uh, you know, just, uh, depression and anxiety, which were two sides of the same point. And, so I dealt with those, uh, initially I dealt with those, uh, in unhealthy ways through drinking and, you know, and other, other, other ways. And then I just, uh, you know, you just, you reach a point where you, you have to make a decision like how, you know, I can’t, can’t keep doing this. Like, you know, it’s the definition of insanity. So, doing the same thing over and over and expect something different to happen, right? So, um, so I got very interested in health and wellness in my late twenties.

Scott (00:04:38):
Uh, and then, and, you know, this is when biohacking was, was starting to, you know, gosh, almost 20 years ago. Mm-Hmm. Uh, and biohacking was kind of in its infancy. Uh, and, and so started to solve my own, my own problems. You know, the, the Orthodox medical establishment really wasn’t much of a much of a help. So, uh, you in most of these issues can be partially if not fully addressed through lifestyle interventions, you know, just better diet, better sleep , et cetera. And so I went down that rabbit hole and learned a lot and got interested in all sorts of different, uh, interventions and modalities. And then, eventually red light got on my radar probably in 2015, 2016 or so. So I started using, you know, red light. And two things I noticed, I actually started using it for, for testosterone.

Scott (00:05:34):
It was, you know, about 40 at the time and was concerned about declining testosterone, but it, it is a big problem, actually. We’re not the men that our grandpas were. Right? Uh, and, and, and because of all of the environmental issues, um, and et cetera. So, uh, I was using red light for that, but then I noticed that I was sleeping a lot better. Uh, and, and I really just started to fall in love with my, my red light device. And then, so a couple, maybe a year, year and a half goes by of using it. And I decided, you know, I was spending too much time and I wanted more red light in my light. And then when I went to buy, uh, another device, I got sticker shock that they were very expensive at the time, you know, like a three foot panel, $1,300 or something.

Scott (00:06:21):
And so I, and so I just was in denial about it. I just refused to, because a couple years earlier, I spent maybe 800, right? So now the price gone 200, and it’s like, why? You know, I mean, they’re just LEDs. I wonder if, you know, I can build something that’s as good for a lower cost, and it turns out that I could <laugh>. And so that was really the genesis for the company in 2019. And we had a very basic products back then. Just the red air and red light, no bells and whistles, no fancy electronics, just very bright, powerful light. And, um, but, you know, much lower cost. So that, that was the genesis of it. And now, obviously, and know we’re almost six years in, and you have a huge product portfolio, uh, that’s, that’s grown a lot as we see as we learn about the marketplace. So we, we seek to address, you know, where there are gaps.

Brad (00:07:18):
So you started with the ambition to increase your testosterone, and is that a research validated strategy? And how are you doing it? You’re exposing your balls?. I say in the red light commercial, every morning I expose my eyeballs and other important balls to the red light panel. Is that, is that the ticket?

Scott (00:07:37):
Yeah. So I wrote an article in late 2019, could getting joules on the crown joules decrease your testosterone? The double on how there joules. First joules is spelled J-O-U-L-E-S, which is the measurement of light density. And the Crown joules is kind of solve explanatory. And so, um, there is data in mice, uh, and actually pretty compelling, compelling data that, uh, and we’re, and, and they, I we’re calling the study, it was about a week they used red or, and or near infrared light on the crown joules of mice. And they saw massive increases in testosterone. Humans, I think are a little bit more complicated, especially hormones. You know, there’s feedback loops and there’s a lot of other, uh, uh, issues going on. And so we have anecdotal feedback from a few customers who have, you know, actually had blood work done before, they used the lights on the crown joules, and then six to eight weeks later, you know, tested and we, and saw increases.

Scott (00:08:39):
But both, in both instances, the, the, the gentleman were, were quite low. I think one guy was two 50, you, the guy was like 325, and they got up into the normal range, you know, 500 was 600. So it wasn’t, uh, so those are a couple anecdotes that we have. But I think in general, you know, the, when we’ll talk about this in terms of like how red and New York red light work, they help the, the cells make energy, they help the, and they help the cells function better. So if the root cause is that you’re, the crown, joules are sluggish for whatever reason, and potentially I think it, it could be beneficial, but if there’s a different root cause let’s say too much exposure to xenoestrogens or whatever, then I don’t know that it would do much. Right?

Brad (00:09:22):
Testosterone replacement therapy doesn’t do much. If you have, uh, adverse health practices and poor metabolic health, including visceral fat, you’ll aromatize the extra testosterone into, into estrogen. So I, I like your position, uh, coming into the biohacking world, knowing that a lot of this is, uh, the responsibility to be the best you can be. And then, use the red light panel as a tool. But it, it just occurred to me when we’re talking about this, like we’re talking about the thinnest easiest to penetrate skin probably anywhere in the body. And so knowing the scientific research that the wavelengths are designed to penetrate the skin, and in fact do, it seems like a very good, part to focus on if you’re, if you’re doing targeted red light therapy.

Scott (00:10:08):
And as you do, do more full body red light therapy and just, you know, make sure that you’re, you’re, you’re doing it in your birthday suit. And then obviously we want to get the light there. But, my general advice is to get the largest device that you can within your budget so that you can shine the light on as much of your body as possible.

Brad (00:10:32):
So what was the sleep benefit like? What was your strategy there? Were you doing this in the evenings to wind down? What do you think was happening in your circadian rhythm with the red light treatments?

Scott (00:10:45):
So I don’t know if it was a circadian, you know, improvement in, in the circ my siria biology, or if it was an increase in melatonin. ‘Cause there is more and more in the, in the, uh, scientific literature, we’re seeing discussions of, uh, infrared radiation in particular, increasing extra pineal melatonin production. So there’s a really good paper I could send it to you. It’s a 2019 paper in the Journal of Melatonin Research, I think by, uh, Russell Ryder and Scott Zimmerman. And they’re, they’re putting forth that 95% of the melatonin in your body is actually not made by the pineal gland. It is actually made in the cells in response to infrared radiation exposure. And the thought process is that you, uh, the infrared, uh, radiation goes into the cell, spins up a TP production, that’s, this is one of primary mechanism for how we make that red infrared light, uh, has benefit is by increasing ATP, but there’s no prelaunch.

Scott (00:11:49):
So there’s an increase in ATP. There’s also an increase in oxidative stress. And so the thought is that in response to that increased oxidative stress, you the cells in the mitochondria upregulate melatonin production within the pat cell to put out the fire locally. Uh, and so the thought is that we’re exposed, our ancestors would be out in the sun all day getting these beneficial wavelengths of infrared radiation and would be creating this massive reservoir of melatonin throughout the day. And then when the dim light onset melatonin from the sun setting, uh, it’s re from the pineal gland, essentially, there’s it’s spared. It doesn’t have to go out, doesn’t have to travel throughout the body to put out fires. It can be available to help you fall asleep. And so that, I believe is the mechanism for how I and others report that they sleep much better when they use red. But, and there’s also a couple studies. I mean, there’s one study I always like to reference in elite Chinese female basketball players. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they used 30 minutes of red light in the early evening, and then they did subjective sleep quality scores, and they were much higher. And, but they also measured serum that melatonin the next day. And it was two thirds higher. So something’s, something’s happening there.

Brad (00:13:12):
Yeah. We only have 200,000 years of research with, uh, with humans living. But it’s an important point that you made where until very recently, we spent, uh, most of the day in the sun. And until very recently, we spent we spent our time near the equator. So we’ve had these massive shifts in humanity, even though it was 15,000 years ago that we, you know, finished populating the entire globe, including the, the polar regions where we didn’t get much sun. Most of our life experience and our evolution has come under the beating sun of Africa. So, that taken away, I think is a, a highly, uh, you know, undervalued aspect of trying to regain our humanity with short of spending all day out in the sun. Now we have a way to, I guess, is this some of the most beneficial aspects of sunlight packaged in the panel and and focused on those proper wavelengths? Is that what you’re doing with the panel?

Scott (00:14:13):
Yes. Well, first of all, I completely agree with you. I do think that the sunlight deficiency of the massive public health problem. So I would say, you know, if you’re not doing well, and, and I know this personally too, uh, when I was suffering with depression and anxiety, I believed that I, I was also living in upstate New York at the time. It was very gray. So even, you know, even when I had the opportunity to be outside, and, you know, I was the sun was so hard to find, uh, and, you know, people and seasonal effectiveness were, is a, is a thing. And I certainly experienced it myself. So I purposely moved to Phoenix 11 years ago to have much more sun, which we do have funny up here. And, um, uh, so totally agree that we need to be, spend more time outside at large, like the population large should be spending more time outside. And then, yes, you know, what we do with Redi infrared light is we take these very beneficial wavelengths, generally between 600 nanometers, which is a wavelength. And that’s, that’s kind of a red orange up to 900 nanometers, which goes into near thread, which is invisible. And we just we’re able to de deliver a very high amount of that light to the body very safely and in a reasonable amount of time. And so I view it as supplementing the safest parts of sunlight, again in a very safe manner.

Brad (00:15:37):
So the, the safest and most beneficial parts of that UV spectrum are helping with mitochondrial function, cell repair, removal of waste products, that kind of thing.

Scott (00:15:51):
Yeah. Just the safest parts of the solar spectrum. So UV is part of the solar spectrum, but arguably less safe because it’s higher energy light. So just as a, as a quick primer, you have the solar spectrum. You got ultraviolet light, which is invisible, 200 to 400 nanometers, UBB makes vitamin D. Then you get into visible light, which is the light we can see. So R-O-Y-G-B-I-V <laugh>, through the, you know, high school,

Brad (00:16:17):
If you don’t have elementary school kids, R-O-Y-G-B-I-V is a prominent educator in the in the first through fourth grade category. And, you want to wanna share the acronym for, for all those parents out there that want to teach more?

Scott (00:16:31):
Yeah. Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet,

Brad (00:16:34):
Right. He’s written a lot of books. He’s showing, you’ll never forget his name, R-O-Y-G-B-I-V Rainbow Town is where I live. That was the book we read.

Scott (00:16:43):
Awesome. Awesome. And then when you get above red, you get into infrared, which is divided into near, mid and far. And it’s also invisible. And actually 54% of the solar spectrum at infrared, only 39% is visible and only 7% of the UV. So, when you’re I always like to call that out because, um, I do believe people are sunlight deficient, but then when you also realize that the vast majority of the solar spectrum is infrared, again, if you’re sunlight deficient, you’re infrared deficient. Uh, and so it makes sense. The supplement,

Brad (00:17:22):
It would probably be almost everyone in the developed world. I’d say

Scott (00:17:28):
You’re a postal worker or UPS driver or a landscaper, perhaps not. But I think the vast majority of folks, uh, are like us. Uh, you know, we’re inside, in front of the PC. Even, even though, and you and I are probably very mindful of this and probably, have a more of an, an ancestral bent, and we know that we should be outside still probably struggle to, to be outside. Uh, I know personally if I’m outside an hour a day at the high end and it’s just, it’s just the nature of, you know, the work that I choose to do.

Brad (00:18:02):
And I’m familiar with the vitamin D potential where you, you have to have the peak times of solar intensity during the day and during the year and during the winter months where you live. If it’s Arizona, it’s only a couple, few months, but if it’s in upstate New York, we’re talking about a nice chunk of the year where there’s no vitamin D potential whatsoever. And is that, a similar, does anything like that apply to the, the infrared spectrum?

Scott (00:18:30):
Well, the thing, so what you said is true in that ultraviolet light it needs to be a certain intensity, or even the UVB wavelengths to reach you, and to make vitamin D And, and iin the northern latitudes in the winter, it’s just not strong enough to make vitamin D. So you’re, you’re going several months without even the ability to make vitamin D. So it’s just something to be mindful of, you know, I think we’re designed to make a lot during the summer. And then if we, if we are, you know, if our ancestors are pro northern latitudes, we make a lot from the summer, we store it to fat-soluble vitamin, we store it, and then that supposedly kind of get us through the winter. Mm-Hmm. So I think that that’s essentially, I don’t, I think that the vitamin D story gets a little complicated because I, I do think that we’re designed to actually have peaks and valleys, and that’s fine. But the problem is that most people aren’t getting the peak in the summer. <laugh>

Brad (00:19:31):
Just the valley man

Scott (00:19:31):
They’re very entitled though. So they’re just, they’re just having a valley all year long and then the valley in the winter can be very problematic. So

Brad (00:19:39):
It’s, yeah, it’s fascinating. I, I’m thinking of this anecdote from, I think it was from the book, the Vitamin D Solution, but humans cannot survive above the 60th parallel on the globe. So that’s all of Scandinavia, Canada, areas like that, because the vitamin D potential is so low. And so the only reason we were able to populate those areas was the, the huge vitamin D possibility in the diet through eating all the oily cold water fish.

Scott (00:20:07):
So that, which goes to show how important it’s, and also, but one of the things that I, I like to stress though, is see, I, that’s an so we can survive, but can we thrive there? I guess with my question, because when people say they’re vitamin D deficient, I don’t think that they’re vitamin D deficient. I think that they’re sunlight deficient, because that’s really the root cause of the vitamin D deficiency. So, and again, I think that you, and so the UV story is part of it, but so the infrared radiation is also a big part. And to kind of circle back on the point you were making earlier, the nice thing about infrared radiation is that, uh, if the sun is out, you will be exposed to it

Brad (00:20:51):
Even in a winter day in, in Stockholm, as long as you’re getting direct light.

Scott (00:20:57):
Yes,

Brad (00:20:57):
Absolutely. It doesn’t have to be tense. Even indirect.

Scott (00:20:59):
Even indirect, because it so infrared, uh, so here’s a good hack. Like if you’re worried about photoaging of the skin, and you don’t wanna be in direct sunlight, go to a green space, sit in the shade, ’cause the infrared light reflects off of green you. And so you would literally come down from the sun bounce off, let’s say the green grass and up, and you would, you would still be exposed to copious amounts of infrared radiation. Indirect. You don’t even have to be directly in sunlight.

Brad (00:21:33):
What if it’s brown dirt or <laugh>? You don’t have what?

Scott (00:21:37):
So I haven’t actually tested, I would imagine there is some reflection, but I know that green in particular, and you can, you can, but infrared cameras, you can pick this up. And I’ve also measured it with a meter. It’s actually pretty fascinating. You can point the meter out with the sun, and obviously it measures quite high. And, but you point it down at the green grass and it’s pretty significant actually. So it’s a good hack. ’cause I know, uh, folks are concerned about photo aging of the skin, you know, in a hurry to give wrinkles. And so they may not want to be outside for hours, but you can still get the benefits of impaired radiation with without direct sun load,

Brad (00:22:17):
As well as getting a, a treatment in front of the red light panel, which is not going to photo age the skin, if I understand that. Right.

Scott (00:22:24):
Right. If anything, uh, there’s a lot of great data on improving skin. You know, I improvement by lines of right goals, increase the collagen production elastin. So there’s a lot of good data because, again, routine mean we taking the parts of the sun that are super beneficial that are increasing mitochondrial activity, and we’re stripping out the parts that can cause the UV parts, which can cause photochemical damage and the far infrared and mid infrared, which can cause, you know, the heating, which can, you know, and which can cause thermal damage. So we, we strip those out and we just have the parts that boost the mitochondria. And so you see, you do see a lot of good skin benefit,

Brad (00:23:10):
Thermal damage. You mean sunburn outside sunburn from, from the sun.

Scott (00:23:17):
Well, so typically the sunburn is from uv, and that’s, it’s high energy light, and it can, um, it damages the skin just ’cause it’s high energy light. One of the ways I like to describe it, like high energy, short wave, like high energy. If you think about, CrossFit battle ropes it is such a good analogy, right? So if you, if you want the, uh, the crests in the battle ropes together, you have to put a lot of energy into the system. So, high energy, short wavelength, mm, longer wavelength, lower energy, you could just go take it easy, do longer, have much longer distance between the crests in the waves. And that is, you know, infrared light or mid and far infrared light. So lower energy, so less dangerous, however, mid and far infrared, do get absorbed by water and turn to heat in the body. So that’s, that’s where, that’s where that, you know, they could be concerned, but the excessive temperature creation in, in, uh, in the body. And, and that’s why when we go out in the sun, it feels warm. That’s exactly what’s happening. The infrared radiation’s going into your body and it’s absorbed by water and turn the heat.

Brad (00:24:38):
So obviously at some point it’s counterproductive. You’re gonna get too hot if you stay in the sun all day and start to feel lousy and lose some benefit.

Scott (00:24:49):
Yeah. So, you know, the, the dose of everything, although I do think, again, we’re designed, uh, to be able to be out there quite a lot. And I actually think that part of the issue is that we’re, so we’re living inside these modern caves, uh, and we’re just not used to bright light. Now I know you’ve asked me about the eyes in the past, and, you know, we, we do recommend the goggles, but I, I think part of the reason people will, this happens without fail, when we have visitors come in and we show ’em, like the big panels, turn it on, and everybody’s just like, wow, that’s bright, right? I mean, it’s visceral reaction, but I think part of it is just we’re just not used to bright light. Mm. Like, we’re just not, ’cause we’re inside, like even now, I’ve got a lot of, I’ve got pretty good lighting in here, but the actual, like locks or lumens is probably one 100 of what it is. If I were to walk outside, right? So we’re just not used to, uh, being exposed to the amount of light that we should be. And I think that we, so we, we just become much more sensitive.

Brad (00:25:57):
Interesting. I thought it was my blue eyes that made me more sensitive than a brown-eyed person. But I can see that big picture too, where if we’re obsessed with wearing sunglasses all the time at the instruction of the ophthalmologist, we’re going to, we’re gonna lose out on those, on some of those benefits and become more fragile, I suppose.

Scott (00:26:17):
I do agree with that. You agree with that’s it. Sunglasses. That is an interesting one. I do not wear sunglasses unless I know I’m going to be outside the sun now, then I will, you know, I may not wear sunglasses But for the most part, uh, um, but my, my afternoon walk, there was no sunlight. It was, would be 15 to 20 minutes, and about walking, there was something, you know, for it could be cumulative damage to the eyes from a ultraviolet light, you know, that can manifest over a decade. So I do think there is something, you know, to protecting the eyes, uh, from extended exposure. But again, you know, we’re, we’re designed to be able to handle ’em though. And especially if we’re getting them the infrared, uh, as we should, uh, you know, I think the can be quite healthy.

Brad (00:27:10):
Yeah. I suppose if we were joined by an ophthalmologist next for the next segment of the show, we could get some, uh, safe warnings and counter opinions. But I really follow, uh, Ben Greenfield’s simple recommendation. He says, if you are strained, put on sunglasses, but if you’re not strained, you don’t obsessively have to throw them on. And I, I laugh at people at 9:15 in the morning, and they’re, they’re busting out their sunglasses. And, uh, I think that loses some of your melatonin potential to, to go back to what you were talking about with our ancestors, we need that light exposure all day to prompt the dim light melatonin release at night.

Scott (00:27:47):
Here’s what’s interesting too. There’s actually, so this, so the, the, the circadian story, I think most folks are aware of, uh, at least now, right? Because, you know, we’ve got folks like Huberman and folks like yourself explaining to people, Hey, it may, it’s a good idea actually to go out, get first light, reboot your circadian rhythm so your body knows what time it is. It’s also a good idea to avoid blue light after sunset because it’s confusing to the body. Uh, you know, you’re telling your body it’s noon when it’s, when it’s, you know, eight o’clock at night. That’s, that, that, that’s not a, a, a good idea. I think those messages are, you know, have, are, it makes sense. And they’ve been out in the, in the ether for a while. So I think most folks are kind of aware of that. But on the sunglasses tip, uh, you know, there is actually, um, melanopsin or Rodin, these sort of, these signaling molecules in the, in the eyes. And when they’re exposed to ultraviolet light from the sun, they actually, uh, upregulate melanin synthesis in your skin. So what that means, kind of the short story of that is that if you wear sunglasses, you actually are more likely to sunburn

Brad (00:28:58):
<laugh>. Scott said it here first. People <laugh> Does everyone follow that? What? So if your, if your eyes are exposed, you’re going to upregulate the melanin, which is the tanning agent that protects you from burn. And if your eyes are covered with glasses or shaded

Scott (00:29:18):
That signal, that signaling doesn’t happen. And so you would be more likely to burn. So

Brad (00:29:23):
Of course, why would it, why would it happen? It’s, it’s not that bright out with your sunglasses on,

Scott (00:29:27):
Right? Right. And, and so, and, uh, it’s just fascinating, right? Like, uh, and again, it’s just we, I, the more I learn about, uh, these things, just the more ancestral bent I have, you know, and something as innocuous as sunland as you just say, okay, well, it’s probably good to protect the eye. And I’m not saying that it isn’t, you know, from like, uh, from hours and hours of exposure, but there’s always a cost and, and the, and the cost. And at least one of the costs that we know is that you’re blocking the signaling that goes to the skin that says, Hey, you know, there’s UV light. You probably wanna upregulate your melanin, and, and get that going. And you’re, you’re, you’re interfering with that, that natural protective mechanism. So it’s just something to be mindful.

Brad (00:30:16):
Yeah, that’s really, that’s really wild. I’ve also known where you buy the, the cheap sunglasses without the UV protection. And so it’s shading your eyes from the sun. That’s the point.

Scott (00:30:28):
<laugh>,

Brad (00:30:28):
But your, your pupils are dilated inside because the because of the, the shading, but there’s no protection. So it’s worse for your eyes to wear crappy sunglasses than it is to just squint and, and deal with it, which is kinda scary too.

Scott (00:30:44):
Yes, I, yes, that, that’s a problem.

Brad (00:30:47):
But, back to the red light panels. So <laugh>, um, we know that spending too much time in the sun is going to be counterproductive. We can’t handle it, whatever. And then there’s a optimal treatment, you know, time and frequency with your, with your red light therapy. So, walk us through some of those suggestions, if you can.

Scott (00:31:09):
Sure. I think one of like a good analogy for red light therapy, uh, routine or practices to think of it as exercise. It is a stressor. It’s a hormetic stressor. So more isn’t necessarily better just, you know, running a marathon every day probably isn’t the best, but regular moderate exercise is probably a very, very good thing for 99.9% of the people. So a similar concept. There’s only so much energy that the cells can absorb in a setting anyway. So we usually recommend, you know, about 10 minute sessions. Uh, you get, uh, and, and, and also just based on the power density of our lights, we know they’re putting out anywhere from two and a half to three and a half joules per square centimeter per minute. And we look, when we look at the data, most applications you want somewhere between five joules to say 60 joules.

Scott (00:32:05):
That’s anywhere from two minutes to 20 minutes. And so, you know, we recommend about 10 minutes for kind of, you know, regular maintenance. Some folks may wanna do a more, they, they may use it and just feel that they, they feel better the more that they’re using it. In which case, I would recommend breaking it up and maybe doing a 10 minute session in the morning and a 10 minute session, you know, late afternoon or early evening, similar to how gonna do two a days if you were an athlete, you know, you would break it up, have, give a little bit of time between. So that’s, again, it is a hormetic stressor. And, uh, so there is such a thing as a, uh, u-shaped response curve. Uh, and so just, you know, using it for hours isn’t necessarily gonna be the a good idea. You, you would see diminishing return, if not at some point negative time.

Brad (00:32:56):
What is the mechanism by which it’s creating a hormetic stressor to the cells.

Scott (00:33:02):
So again, it does increase ATP and it, so, and it actually, the molecular level, what it’s doing is it’s taking tcom oxidase, which is this chromophore light absorbing molecule, which is needed to make a TP. And, uh, and it’s bound, it, it, so cycl sea oxidase in the mitochondria can bind with either oxygen or nitric oxide, and it needs to bind with oxygen to finish making ATP or cellular energy. But if it’s bound with, uh, nitric oxide, it can’t. So what we, what we, the, the leading hypothesis or theory about exactly how this works is that the redir infrared light literally vibrates cyt, uh, cyto oxidase and nitric oxide are bound together when you then, when that’s hit with red infrared light, they’re vibrated apart and you have more free cyi oxidase available, buying with oxygen to make a p. And we observed this ’cause we’ve see an increase in ATP and we see an increase in nitric oxide, but nitric oxide is a pretty radical. Hmm. So, nitric oxide, it’s an interesting topic because it’s a, it’s actually a free radical on, like the exercise sphere or in other, perhaps even in the bedroom, we kind of champion nitric oxide, you know, or, impacts, right? Yeah.

Brad (00:34:25):
For blood flow. And yeah,

Scott (00:34:27):
You don’t necessarily want a lot of nitric oxide in the mitochondria repeating with oxygen to occi. So it, it’s all about context, and it’s about having the right amount of what you want in the right places. So, anyways, so it does increase oxidative stress by unbounding nitric oxide, which is a erotic. And so that we think increases, uh, in turn increases melatonin production. And it also, do what’s called retrograde signaling from the mitochondria back to the nucleus of the cell, upregulates other anti-inflammatory and antioxidant pathway. So it has a downstream anti-inflammatory effect, but it has an acute, you know, increase in oxidative stroke.

Brad (00:35:13):
I guess that’s the same category as a sprint workout, a cold plunge or things that provide an appropriate, uh, stressor or stimulation, and then the body response by coming back stronger, making more ATP energy,

Scott (00:35:28):
That’s all about, right? I mean, all of these things, you know, it’s, and so, so the dose matters, right? Like, you know, you know, and for me, I’m a big fan of minimum effective dose, right? So I’m in the cold plunger, but I’m in there a couple of minutes max. I actually, I’ve actually, I used to do 40, I used to do 38 degrees, now I’m up to 50. I’ve actually made it easier on myself. ’cause I was, psychologically I was having trouble getting in in the first place. So and I, and again, some of that, this is a whole nother topic, but, you know, what is the minimum effective dose for coal plunge? How, but I think 50 degrees, two minutes is plenty. So same thing with light. Our lights are very powerful, and I don’t, uh, generally speaking, you know, 10 minutes is a good dose of light.

Brad (00:36:11):
Makes sense. It seems like you know, your stuff, Scott, I think listeners would have to agree that you, you’re in the right game here. What was your career before, before you got into Red Light?

Scott (00:36:26):
I was actually in finance, believe or not.

Brad (00:36:28):
Right, right. It was completely unrelated. Yeah. Amazing.

Scott (00:36:32):
I’ve always gravitated towards strategy. That’s chess, poker, and then, you know, trading in market. I’m super fascinated with the market. So I got an BA 20 years ago, and you, I had a career in finance and it was okay, but you know, what I’m passionate about is health. What I’m passionate about is feeling good, right? I mean, that’s where it all starts. So making money is fine, but well, what is it without your health? Nothing.

Brad (00:37:04):
Oh, we see. Yeah. Um, it’s, it’s pretty tragic to even reflect on that for a moment. ’cause, you know, once you have a health challenge, everything else gets put into perspective for you for the first time, perhaps slapped in the face about it. Yeah.

Scott (00:37:21):
Yeah. How about I, so many times I’ve seen, you, it is, maybe it’s just part of our culture, but people trade their health in their actions day to day. They trade your health for, for dollars. And it, it’s a bad trade, <laugh>. It’s never a good trade.

Brad (00:37:41):
And so, yeah. Dollars or instant gratification. And like you described with your story, I remember hearing this take about alcohol, um, that it’s so destructive, but it, one of the, um, experts, I think it was on a podcast, said, actually it’s, it’s extremely effective for dealing with anxiety, stress, depression, whatever. And it works instantly, and it’s extremely effective. It’s just has really destructive long-term consequences. But it’s an interesting way to categorize it because that’s why they’re so, all, all the substances and and diversions are so popular is that they, they work as promised. They just don’t <laugh> make any promises about the next morning and the rest of your life,

Scott (00:38:25):
Right? So for me, you know, I’m super thankful for those struggles. I mean, I, uh, because they, they’re what led me to find solutions. And, and so yeah, I, I don’t really know that there’s like a, a, a big takeaway from that other than <laugh> you’re going through something difficult. Just know that, like, on the other side of it, like, um, it will serve you in some way, right? And so, uh, I, I do think, uh, all of the stuff that I went through and all of the mistakes that I made and all of the, uh, challenges, you know, they, they were actually necessary to get me to where I was at, to be able to, to what I’m doing now.

Brad (00:39:13):
Well, that’s a, that’s a great way to look at it, man. I mean it’s not, you don’t necessarily adopt that perspective. You had to work to get there, I suppose.

Scott (00:39:27):
Oh, certainly. And when you, and certainly when you’re in the thick of it, you don’t think like that at all, you know? I mean, it’s very, it’s very to think, you know, why, why me? Why the hell, you know, yeah. Why is this happening to me? But then, then you realize I would, and, you know, looking back that, you know, it, you know, it is, it is what it needed to be. And so I’m super thankful, you know, now I happen to be in the light business, but taking, uh, you know, all of the challenges that I went through that my family has gone through, and taking it and using it as a fuel to create things that hopefully are gonna, that are gonna benefit you,

Brad (00:40:06):
There’s light at the end of the tunnel. Incredible. You know, you mentioned you’re interest in finance markets, all that, but I also see you as this, uh, this inventor guy. ’cause every time I visit headquarters, you got crazy new stuff going on that, you can’t even believe some of this stuff. And I know probably some you’re not allowed to talk about, but, could you, could you open the curtain for a little bit on, in the inventor’s corner there at headquarters and some new stuff that’s coming out. I mean, the water bottle’s already out, so I’d love to hear about that. And, what else is cooking?

Scott (00:40:41):
So we have the mito hydro I think I have to get you one of these. So it, it, it’s a hydrogen water bottle. I mean, hydrogen water is something that, I mean, there’s a lot of good data on it, and it’s very simple how it works. I don’t know if you’re familiar with how it works, but there’s through a process of electrolysis, it separates the hydrogen and the oxygen in the water into hydrogen gas, or it’s a free hydrogen GaN. So you, you run it for five or 10 minutes, you drink the water, the hydrogen gas diffuses very quickly into your system. That small hydrogen add that goes, it goes right in and then it floating around and it’s, it, it’s looking for hydroxyl radical Oh,

Brad (00:41:24):
In your body, which

Scott (00:41:25):
Is a very problematic, free radical on the body. And so, uh, very damaging. So this o age floating around. And then when this free hydrogen, finds the OH, turns it into water, H plus oh, is H2O mm-Hmm. So it just, and water is okay. So I neutralized it. So that’s essentially how it works. So I had learned about it actually several years ago, and used to be that you had to have either these very expensive machines or these tablets that you had to drop on the water. Uh, and I didn’t, I used them, but I didn’t like how they tasted. And then, you know, plus you had to keep buying a tablet. And then, uh, with the technology advance where we could put it into a water bottle. And I, I’m super proud of this ’cause it’s very well built.

Scott (00:42:10):
Uh, it, it’s got a IH SA certified, uh, so it’s, it’s one of the best bottles on the market even though it’s outside of our core competency. And I was just red and near infrared LED lighting. We just thought it would complement, uh, you know, what, what we’re doing. So we, we decided to build it. Um, so that, I’ll, I’ll get you one. You can try it out. Let me know what you think. We’ve got, we’ve got a skin serum that we’re working on, which, uh, again, outside our core competency, but we’re, we’re heavily researching what would you wanna put into a skin serum to enhance the skin benefits of red light.

Scott (00:42:53):
And so, we’ve done, there are a couple of studies on green tea and using green tea on the skin before red light. I’ll, I’ll send it, if you’re curious, I’ll send it to you. It’s pretty amazing. It’s one study. They use green tea bags on, like, kind of the crow’s feet area here. They just steep literally steep green tea bags and then just put them on, uh, the area for about 20 minutes. And then they used red light. And so they had a, a group where they did that, and a group where they just used red light. So both groups saw, uh, improvement. But the group that was pretreated with the green tea, uh, it was incredible. Like the before and afters were incredible. And the hypothesis is that the antioxidants in the green tea are buffering some of the oxidative strength.

Scott (00:43:40):
And so you’re getting more of a net benefit from using the red light. ‘Cause again, there’s no prelaunch. You’re increasing ATP increasing oxidative stress. So your body has to deal with that. So if you kind of precondition the skin with some, antioxidants in there available, then you, you know, The hypothesis is you’re gonna get more of a net benefit. So that study was pretty amazing. And then we did a product study in Poland a few years ago. You ordered with the skincare company. They used a agreed roose extract, very high antioxidant. And that, uh, study showed very good promise. You know, again, two groups. We actually, that study we did split face. So half the face <laugh> serum, half the face didn’t. And then they just compared each side. And, the side, they got both side doc saw a benefit across all metrics, but the side where we preconditioned with the antioxidant serum had a more of a benefit. So we’re taking that and some other very interesting studies, and we’re working very hard to think about what kind of serum we can, up before serum to use. Uh, ’cause uh, there’s so many of our customers use Red Life Scan, right? So I’m really excited about that. And we’ve got our first actually I have, I have a bottle here, but this isn’t anywhere near on the market.

Brad (00:44:55):
If you’re watching on video, Scott is showing one of his top secret bottles. And also if you’re watching on video, um, you’ll notice Scott has no wrinkles whatsoever. There’s no crow’s feet to speak of. So something is working with that red light therapy, and they almost 50 Tom’s secret serum, almost 50. He’s just, he’s just like a new man here in the desert.

Scott (00:45:17):
Actually, I have to say, your skin’s pretty good too, my friend. So, uh,

Brad (00:45:19):
<crosstalk>, um, I’ve been working on it. I’m in front of the panels for five years now. And I, I do think that, um, you know, some of these things are, uh, very possible to, um, reverse or improve if you didn’t have your a game on before for previous decades. Of course, we didn’t have this sort of technology, but, um, it’s exciting to, you know, try to reach for our potential at whatever age.

Scott (00:45:44):
Totally agree. And I will tell you my hair, I’ve grown some of my hair back and now I’m 49. And, uh, my hair started spinning, about 16 years ago. And, uh, I started using the laser helmet about a year and a half ago. And it, it, it has been a slow change. It hasn’t been a miracle about any, any stretch. But the before and afters on our site are my bald head and

Brad (00:46:11):
<laugh>, you could see his bald head right there on the homepage. And, I’ve seen the helmet. Is that, is that commercially available or is that one of your foot inventions

Scott (00:46:21):
I just finished the session right before we jumped off.

Brad (00:46:23):
Right. So it looks like if you’re not watching, if you’re watching on YouTube, you can see it looks like an ordinary, you know, BMX helmet or something, and you, you put it on, and so you’re getting a concentrated dose of the red and the near infrared, the same visible and invisible

Scott (00:46:41):
Spectrum’s. Actually only red i the data,

Brad (00:46:43):
It’s red. Okay.

Scott (00:46:44):
Six 60. But these are <crosstalk>

Brad (00:46:46):
<laugh>. If you’re not watching, uh, you’re missing out on a great show. ’cause he is wearing the helmet now, and his head is now a glow with a nice red glow coming outta the helmet. But you look like you’re ready for the skate park

Scott (00:46:58):
<laugh>. I would, yeah. That would, that wouldn’t work out. Well, I can’t escape word.

Brad (00:47:02):
So again, when you’re, you’re putting the helmet on or you’re standing in front of the panel or, or using a, uh, you know, a handheld a a smaller panel, you’re gonna get an appropriate, uh, exposure to the skin to generate all the benefits without overdoing it. I suppose

Scott (00:47:20):
It’s only 12 minutes.

Brad (00:47:22):
12 minutes, yeah.

Scott (00:47:23):
12 every other day.

Brad (00:47:25):
Okay. Right.

Scott (00:47:27):
And that the data is pretty compelling on hair growth.

Brad (00:47:29):
So you, you’re stimulating that healing response from the every other day 12 minutes and your hair’s going to work in between.

Scott (00:47:37):
Yes. And we also did for, we already came out with the hair meds. So, we just launched this, actually, this, this was took a year of research and, um, I love this stuff. It has peppermint oil in it, and it, it just gives this wonderful cooling and you don’t eat it. But I, I started, my hair has been ending for 16 years, this beautiful cooling sensation on scalp. It’s just, I love putting this stuff on it. I, maybe it’s ’cause also

Brad (00:48:06):
<laugh>,

Scott (00:48:07):
It’s so hot and it’s just this, this very nice cooling feeling on the scalp.

Brad (00:48:14):
Uh, so

Scott (00:48:15):
I’m good about this too, where, well, I’m gonna, we’re gonna do some studies on this. It’s very, it took a lot of research, but I’m very proud of formula and I’m proud of you know, how it’s working.

Brad (00:48:26):
Can’t wait to see that as part of your offering. Yeah. And now back to the water bottle. How does it work? Do you put regular water in and somehow it gets treated inside the canister?

Scott (00:48:40):
That’s right. I would recommend like ro or filtered water, just clean water that works.

Brad (00:48:45):
Start, start with something good people. Okay. Yeah.

Scott (00:48:47):
And then all you have to do is, uh, well, I don’t have water in here, but you, you just, you push the button and it, it runs and there’s actually little bubbles that come up from the bottom. There’s a, there’s a membrane, and it’s just electrical current actually that, um, that when it gets the water, it separates hydrogen and oxygen and it fills the water with hydrogen gas. And then all you need to do is shrink it.

Brad (00:49:14):
So I guess that’s what we’re purchasing when we, when we see the very expensive bottle at a, you know, boutique store of some kind. They’ve done that treatment. And now you can do it yourself in a handheld device.

Scott (00:49:28):
Right. Multiple times a day. I use, I do drink two to three bottles a day. Wow. But yes, I mean, there used to be very expensive machines, and I won’t name any brand, but you know, this one, the one I’m thinking of from Japan that’s been around for a long time. And that was the only way that you could do it. So to be able to put it into a bottle that’s travel probably as you can just run multiple times a day, it’s super convenient.

Brad (00:49:56):
Well, that sounds super exciting. I can’t wait to try it out. I think we’re gonna do a special promo, uh, for listeners that wanna try the, uh, the new bottle as well as a light panel. We have the standing, uh, discount code, uh, which is Brad on mito red light.com. That’s mito, like mitochondria red light.com. We’ve put up some great videos where you’re explaining some of the, um, some of the, uh, the benefits of red light. And so I encourage people to, um, to look at those. But I really appreciate this discussion. It really, you know, helps get further education about what’s happening, because I know people that just stand in front of it on faith, but if you start to understand how important light is and how we run on, you know, light water, that’s how we make energy. You realize it’s kind of important. Yeah.

Scott (00:50:47):
It’s arguably the most important thing, although I admittedly I’m biased, but you know, we’re really get back to basics, right? I mean, just get sunlight. You don’t necessarily have to buy a device. However, I think if we’re being honest with ourselves, we know that if you, we try our best to get outside, it’s still very difficult with other responsibilities to be outside as much as we, we would like. And it’s just a super convenient way to supplement. And, um, and you know, the nice thing about LED technology is that the lights should last a very long time. You know, there’s no planned obsolescent, like those device it properly cared for. They should last many, many years. I have the, I have devices that I’ve sold to gyms where they do workout classes all day underneath. They put ’em on the ceiling Yeah.

Scott (00:51:38):
And workout classes all day. So lights are on eight hours a day. I’m one place I’m thinking of, they bought those like, like five years ago, and they’re still just going strong. Uh, so LED tech is, is really amazing. It’s, it’s the wave of the future. We just need to be smart about the wavelengths and the power intensity that we use in the LEDs and tune it more to our biology. And I think that we can, uh, you know, it’s kinda my, my, my pet project is I’m working on a ambient lighting solution, which is gonna have, it’s not gonna be the junk light, just the blue and green light that all of the LED lights are. It’s gonna be in tune with our circadian biology. It’s gonna have red, it’s gonna have infrared, uh, but it’s gonna be super energy efficient and that, that’s really where we need to go.

Brad (00:52:28):
Right. ’cause I guess we’re, you know, we’re transitioning over to LED in, in typical home use for ambient lighting, but there’s some offensive aspects to getting blasted by that light all day with your, your canned lights or whatever, right?

Scott (00:52:44):
Yes. That, so there are two, there are two problems. One is the flicker. Mm. And same thing with the screen, so that it’s an artifact of alternating current. ’cause the LEDs, essentially, they, you have the, the current goes on and off. I mean, they do, they do turn on and off with, with incandescent that that artifact of a alternating current is muted because the incandescent, you’re heating a filament inside the bulb, and it, it takes too long for that, that the filament to cool down. Yeah. So you don’t just flicker really in, in incandescent bulb with an LED. There is, and basically flickers the light’s turning on off and on 120 times a second. It’s not perceptible, it’s just above where we could proceed, which I think is a hundred hertz. But, uh, but it is like a stressor. And, and so, and especially sitting under that for eight and 12 hours a day, it’s a minor stressor to your eye.

Scott (00:53:36):
And so that’s the first thing we have to get rid of, we have to raise awareness of and get rid of in ambient lighting is the clicker. But the other bigger issue, in my opinion, is that the LEDs that are used for ambient lighting, they’re essentially blue and they’re, they’re essentially blue LEDs, but so typically they’re, uh, they, you can create white light, what we perceived as white light by using a blue LED and using a blue LED what’s what’s called a yellow phospho, which is just a yellow coating, which, uh, yellow and blue makes green. So it’s blue and green, but that, that green, there’s enough yellow and orange that comes out of that second LED where our brain perceives that as white But it’s not real white light. It’s really blue and green light that our brain is perceiving as white.

Scott (00:54:27):
And, and it’s, it’s lacking in cyan, which is the part between blue and green. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it’s massively lacking in orange and red and of course in info. And so, which, you know, we will be getting some. So where we need to take that is we need to create indoor lighting products where we add back in the sign in and we add back in a proper amount of red. And I would argue even a proper amount of infrared. ’cause we just spent the last hour talking about how infrared is super beneficial for the human body. And yet we’ve stripped it from all of our indoor lighting in the name of energy efficiency. Incandescent bulbs do put out a certain amount of infrared and you know, they work from black body radiation, which is essentially outta sun would. So even the incandescent that we used to have, let’s say in the fifties, sixties and seventies are all, we’re still getting some infrared from those, but now those are gone. We’re living out long. And so now all we’re left is this very foreign blue and green LED light, which is flickering and it’s junk light. And it’s horrible for biology. It’s, we need to, we need to we need to fix that. And that’s actually, you know, what I’m gonna be working on in the next couple of years is try to figure out how we can build LED lighting that’s more in tune with our biology and try to bring it mass market.

Brad (00:55:47):
That could be a slightly large market opportunity when we’re talking about indoor lighting for humans. <laugh>

Scott (00:55:53):
Billion, it’s billion. And I just can’t, it’s really strange to me that nobody’s, I haven’t seen anybody really actively working to solve that problem. And it’s a huge problem. It’s a huge problem and it’s a huge market. So I don’t understand. But, so I’m gonna do my best from my small corner of the world to, I’m actually working on a desk lamp. It’s how I’m gonna start. But, you know, all of these can lights and every, uh, office and factory, you know, you know, worldwide needs lighting that is, you know, congruent with our biology.

Brad (00:56:29):
So are you saying now on the market there’s no acceptable solution that all the LEDs are flickering, imperceptible, flickering and I guess you can get incandescent lamps and things, but there’s no good option right now.

Scott (00:56:44):
Incandescent lamp, harder order to get, you have to buy them like from novel, like it’s novelty, you know, so I mean, I actually have a, a halogen lamp over there that’s kind like my little sun. But, uh, but you know, they’re harder, harder to get because of energy. Uh, ’cause the regulations around the energy consumption, ’cause they do, they do create heat. So they are inefficient in that, in that sense, in that a lot of that electrical energy is turning into heat. Yeah. That’s where LED DS shine, unintended <laugh> and that they’re super efficient and they’re super and they’re, and the longevity, right. They last forever. We just need to have better design. So the problem with LEDs is solved by more LED, but we just want to add in the parts of the spectrum that are currently missing from the LED products on the market for ambient lighting.

Scott (00:57:37):
So if we could add in, you know, use the blue and green, well, we should add in the cyan and we should add in some red and we should add in some New York red, in my opinion, even though it’s invisible because it’s not about just the lighting, it’s about, uh, your biology. Now we can create kind of an indoor version of the sun that’s super energy efficient and uh, and actually, and really the, the take it to the next level, uh, the composition of wave lake should change depending on the time of day. Um, so that’s also part of it, right? So you’re, we’re honoring our circadian biologist be more, uh, red and near infrared in, uh, around sunrise at sunset. And it should be, uh, there should be a lot of blue around mid day because that’s what happened to nature. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that, that needs to happen. And so I’m working on it. Eventually somebody, I would love to get Elon Musk or somebody on it to at least understand why this is a problem. Yeah. Uh, and you know, I think we could this, that has a potential change the world in many positive ways. ’cause I don’t really think people understand that they feel like crap because of the light that they’re exposed to all in.

Brad (00:58:46):
I think you’d call the company indoor sun.

Scott (00:58:49):
Okay. I, we workshop names.

Brad (00:58:50):
There we go.

Scott (00:58:51):
We, the lamp is calling it the bio arrhythmic lamp that has kind nice additive name for it. But

Brad (00:59:00):
So like, because I’m in the midst of relighting our and remodeling our house, the LEDs are, are touted as having this cool setting where you can go from white down to more yellowish or something. And how does that layer into your discussion of the flickering and do you know what I’m talking about? Where you can, you can set it on,

Scott (00:59:23):
That’s an improvement if you’re, if you’re able to at least go like to a warmer temperature. Yeah, but I would, I doubt that they’re engineering the flicker out and

Brad (00:59:34):
Same for computer. Yeah.

Scott (00:59:36):
And certainly, they’re probably not adding in the cyan, which is what you want for true malano. So the sun is full spectrum. It it isn’t just this, this blue and then this green. Right. Yeah. And so, you know, we may not think of cyan as being important or having important biological effects, but the, but the bottom line is that we would be exposed to the blue, the green and the scion if we were out in the sun. So to just expect it is suboptimal. And also, you know, really where we need to take it is we need to put some some red and some infrared in if you real, because you wouldn’t be out, you, anytime you’re out in the sun, you’re exposed to infrared. So it is far into our biology to be exposed to light without infrared. Mm.

Brad (01:00:23):
Right, right. That’s why the blue light is so disruptive,

Scott (01:00:28):
Partially. And so that’s, yeah, it’s probably one thing that people should understand a little better. It’s not, it’s not, it’s okay to be exposed to infrared and not UV phone. ’cause that happens in nature all the time, right? Like, and it happens in Scandinavia in the winter. Yeah. There’s no uv. Right. But there’s infrared. But you would never be exposed to light without infrared.

Brad (01:00:49):
Right.

Scott (01:00:50):
Unless you, again, this the modern environment unless

Brad (01:00:54):
You pick up your phone at night. Yeah.

Scott (01:00:55):
Right, right. And so there’s so much opportunity to prove it’s a huge market opportunity. I just, we just have to get the awareness there. I think, you know, uh, you can create a product to try to create the demand or you can try to create demand and then create the product. I think we need to do both in this, in this, in this regard.

Brad (01:01:11):
Okay. We’re gonna, I’m, I’m gonna sign up to be your first interview when, when you launch the new outdoor simulated lighting for your home. That’s gonna be cool. Now, do you do like the biohacker style at your house where you switch over to red light panels as your sole source of light or other sort of ?

Scott (01:01:28):
So I have this, this is, uh, I have

Brad (01:01:30):
Looks like a small donut shaped light. People. If you’re watching on YouTube, it’s like a desk lamp. And is that, uh, that’s, is that red colored? I couldn’t really tell. Yeah, it’s just Oh, nice. Okay.

Scott (01:01:42):
I love it ’cause it’s battery powered and I, um, so these are all, these are in every bedroom in the house.

Brad (01:01:50):
Wow.

Scott (01:01:51):
It’s not, it’s battery powered so it doesn’t flicker. So it’s cannot have to worry about any flicker. But also I turn off the power to my bedrooms at night before I sleep. And so, I still have a light that works <laugh> because it’s, it’s battery power. It’s charging in the USB all all day. And then, uh, it’s got like a 12 hour battery. So yeah. I love these. And I, so I’m a huge fan of these. And we do sell these on the site. It’s only 50 bucks. Nice. And it’ll last you forever and it’s not gonna jack up your sleep because it’s only red light.

Brad (01:02:22):
Love it. Scott Chaverri and we’re gonna call this The Light Show. I think it was fantastic. We covered a lot of different stuff more than I even bargained for. I learned so much. I appreciate your time and hopefully the listener agrees that we got a great education and inspiration here and I definitely, uh, direct you to go visit mito red light.com because the articles are extremely informative and there’s a ton of information to learn there, as well as looking at all the, the amazing array of products. You’ve only mentioned a few cool ones, but it’s, it’s high tech people, man.

Scott (01:02:56):
Thank you man. I really appreciate it. Yeah, we we’re working hard to continue to bring new things to market. I’ve got so many other things on the offer, really excited for the next few years, you know, and just trying to make a positive difference and do cool stuff.

Brad (01:03:09):
Scott Chaverri everybody. Thanks for listening. Thank you so much for listening to the B.rad Podcast. We appreciate all feedback and suggestions. Email podcast@bradventures.com and visit brad kearns.com to download five free eBooks and learn some great long cuts to a longer life. How to optimize testosterone naturally, become a dark chocolate connoisseur and transition to a barefoot and minimalist shoe lifestyle.