It’s time to talk to the Meat Mafia!

I have two very interesting guests today—Harrison Gray (Clemenza) and Brett Sollozo, the hosts of the Meat Mafia podcast. These Twitter sensations have been doing a fantastic job enthusiastically spreading the word (especially to their younger demographic) about cleaning up your diet, focusing on nutrient density, and second guessing the industrialized food system and the misinformation we’ve been presented about it through their podcast. You’ll hear Brett and Clemenza talk about the events that led to their health awakening, how the health problems Brett faced in his youth ended up leaving him hospitalized (plus many expensive treatments), the extreme endurance goals they are now both pursuing, and the food they use to fuel these endeavors. You will hear about the exact foods they eat in their thoughtful and intentional diet, and some may surprise you (hint: a certain type of fruit juice gets on the list!), the core tenants of the Meat Mafia lifestyle, and much more!

TIMESTAMPS:

The Meat Mafia guys started at a young age to realize that animal-based diet was the healthiest for them. [00:53]

Their mission is to question what has gone wrong with the food system and how to create some sustainable solutions to make people healthier. [05:15]

Brett had a terrible physical problem when only 21 years old.  Being told he would be on medication forever prompted him to investigate a healthier diet. [06:55]

Was it the processed foods or the plants taking him down? You can be eating well and then lifestyle can change and you go back to what is not good. [10:11]

The Meat Mafia is really connecting with people in their age group to educate them on how to enjoy preparing their own real food. [15:19]

It is so easy to get drawn into the hyper palatable foods in the inner aisles of the market. Most super markets have about 33,000 products controlled by about 10 companies!  They know how to draw you in. [19:23]

When we are used to some foods, it is difficult to change, but it doesn’t take long to lose the craving when you know it is not good for you. Your taste buds do evolve. [22:40]

Your mentality can be hijacked. [24:29]

Anyone who suffers from a physical ailment owes it to themself to embark on diet experimentation. [26:46]

Learning to cook your own healthy meals can turn into a very exciting hobby. [30:27]

Your environment is very important in keeping you on track. [32:55]

Harry and Brett were baseball players.  How did they jump into deep endurance? [35:30]

What are some insights they have learned from their guests? [47:59]

What does the regenerative farming mean? [52:52]

Some farming can be done carbon negative. [56:17]

Mono cropping agriculture, factory farming, is a great contributor to the environmental problem. [59:40]

LINKS:

• Brad Kearns.com
• Brad’s Shopping page
• PrimalEndrance.fit
• Meat Mafia
• White Oak Pastures
• Meat Mafia Podcast

QUOTES:

• “I wasn’t giving my genes what they wanted and it kind of caught up to me when I was 21.” –Brett Sollozo 

LISTEN: 

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (00:00:00):
I’m author and athlete, Brad Kearns. Welcome to the.B.rad podcast, where we explore ways to pursue peak performance with passion throughout life. Visit brad kearns.com for great resources on healthy eating, exercise, and lifestyle. And here we go with the show.

Brad (00:00:53):
Yo, it’s time to talk to the Meat Mafia. Clemenza and Sollozo. Yes, indeed. I have two very interesting and enthusiastic gentlemen who host a podcast called the Meat Mafia. There are also sensations on Twitter with their respective handles that you can find in the show notes or look up Meat Mafia on Twitter. And these young guys are doing a fantastic job spreading the word, especially to their younger demographic, where by and large, it seems that we don’t come to this incredible health awakening and nutrient density focus on the diet until later in our younger decades, a lot of us can referenc having fun and grabbing a pizza on the go while we’re driving hard with career and even athletic goals, not really worrying about it. But in Brett Sollozo case, he had a horrible health experience, uh, even as a young player in college baseball, and he started to lose weight.

Brad (00:01:55):
He couldn’t bring down food. He will relate the details of this problem that sent him into hospitalization and expensive medical treatments. And that doesn’t seem like a fun way to go through your twenties. So the Health Awakening started early for Harrison and Brett, and now they’re committed to spreading the word, especially about the benefits of an animal-based diet and sourcing the food. Second guessing the industrialized food complex and how bad this is for our health, the misinformation that we’ve been dispensed. So I think you’re gonna get a lot out of this show, and you’re gonna love their enthusiasm, which they have now taken over into pursuing extreme endurance goals, like doing the Ironman Triathlon. Hey, what the heck? Let’s train for an Ironman a 100K run and fueling these efforts with a very, uh, thoughtful, intentional diet. They have great content on Twitter.

Brad (00:02:47):
I wanna read one post where they just put up a bunch of suggested foods to emphasize as well as lifestyle practices. So at a glance, boom, here you go. <laugh>, meat, fruit, eggs, organs, oysters, marrow, raw dairy, raw honey, bone broth, orange juice, dark chocolate, fermented vegetables, walk a lot, lift heavy things, rest often, breathe more. sun bathe, create and community. Hey, those are nice marching orders. Here’s another, quick hit from, uh, one of their informative articles on the Meat Mafia website. These are core tenants, things like enjoyment, simplicity, consistency, community mindfulness, and low time preference, meaning play the long game. I love it. You guys are great. Let’s have some fun with them and go over and check out their podcast called the Meat Mafia Podcast, of which I was a guest on. So start with that show. You’ll love it. We had a great time.

Brad (00:03:47):
And now let’s get to know Harrison Clemenza and Brett Sollozo. Listeners. I am joined by the Meet Mafia, and these guys are no joke. We have Soillozo and Clemenza. They came from New Joisey, but they’ve moved on to bigger and better things, especially promoting this wonderful movement. Where better from places like Austin, San Diego, the cool parts of the world? We have Brett and Harry, I had a great time on your show. I want listeners to jump over to the Meat Mafia podcast and subscribe and now, uh, get to turn the tables and hear about the fun stuff that, uh, that you guys are doing. So, welcome.

Brett or Harry (00:04:27):
Right? It’s a, it’s a pleasure to be on your podcast and, and love the name of your podcast. I think it’s one of the best ones out there.

Brad (00:04:32):
Oh, likewise the Meat Mafia. How can you beat that? And then the, the clever little tweets, I guess you guys are mainly using Twitter for these memorable, the the list of foods and the, the stats from Stefaan, the Explorer that went to the South Pole. It’s a great resource and it’s fun and you guys are, are working hard to build something cool. So, and maybe we should just start like with your journey, uh, starting in, starting in Joisey and, how did you, you know, how did you get into this unique way of living, eating? We’re talking about some amazing athletic performances that have occurred recently, so I can’t wait to learn all about it.

Brett (00:05:15):
Yeah, and you might offend Harry because I’m a New Jersey boy, but Harry’s a Virginia boy, so he, I I’m northeast, he’s mid-Atlantic, so there’s a little bit of a beef going on there, but still close enough. But, Brad, our story really started a lot of the, what we’ve been doing at the Meat Mafia. Number one, it’s like Harry and I are really close personal friends. We met in college, we both played college baseball together up at Babson College, which is a division three school. And so I think, you know, with what we’re doing with the Meat Mafia, you know, neither of us are MDs. We’re not nutritionists, we’re not strength coaches. You know, we’re just two guys that have had our own journeys with diet and lifestyle to kind of get to the point, point where we are now. And it just like really questioned what’s gone wrong with the food system and how can we create some sustainable solutions to help make people healthier.

Brett or Harry (00:06:05):
So that’s a lot of what we’re trying to do, uh, you know, through the Meat Mafia and, you know, we can talk about it, but we really started on Twitter and it’s naturally evolved to a podcast. And we’ve recorded over 115 episodes and since March 1st. So we’ve been trying to hit it hard, which is exciting. But, you know, for me, Brad, my, my journey with nutrition for me was really trying to find a cure to some pretty serious autoimmune conditions that I was dealing with when I was younger. So, um, you know, like I mentioned, I played baseball at a pretty high level and really just justified everything that I was doing as like calories in, calories out. So was drinking pre-workout and protein shakes and eating a lot of fried food out of a box and not really knowing anything about how to cook my own meals and kind of just fell into that unhealthy college lifestyle.

Brett (00:06:55):
So, you know, like when I was 21 years old, I was probably drinking too much alcohol, I was stressed out, I wasn’t eating well, I wasn’t sleeping enough. And then going into my senior year, I started having blood in my stool and an urgency to go to the bathroom. And it got to a point where I was pretty much going to the bathroom over 20 times a day. I lost 30 pounds, I got hospitalized and I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis which is an inflammatory bowel disease that affects your large intestine or your colon. Um, and I was on some pretty serious medication for that. I was, I was told that colitis is incurable and I was gonna have to be on the drug for the rest of my life. And my medication, I was supposed to get administered through an infusion called Remicade.

Brett (00:07:38):
Um, and it’s like $50,000 per infusion every eight weeks, um, <laugh>. So I’m costing the medical system 400 K a year, let alone all the other people with similar autoimmune conditions that are on the same medication. It’s like, you know, you can really do the math on how much that that adds up and it’s costing the medical system. But Brad, everything really changed for me in 2019 when I came across Dr. Shawn Baker on Joe Rogan’s podcast and he started talking about the carnivore diet and how evolutionarily we really have evolved to be carnivores and how contrary to popular literature we thrive off of animal products and saturated fat and cholesterol and meat some of the most nutrient dense food you can put into your body, but it’s also some of the most bioavailable and easily digestible foods. So, um, you know, I went carnivore in 2019, thought I was gonna do.

Brad (00:08:30):
Was that on your own? Were you still going in for the treatments and part of the medical system?

Brett or Harry (00:08:33):
I was. So I think that’s an important point, is that like, you know, I’m not anti-western medicine because when, you know, when I was flared up, like I needed some type of extraneous treatment because my, i, my stomach, I just couldn’t process any food. So what I say is like, I think the Remicade got me out of that flare up, but it only got me to a point, like I was still going to the bathroom probably like four to five times a day and just like, just that overactive GI and that overactive colon, cuz there was still some inflammation in there. And that was the beauty of the carnivore diet is that because it’s so restrictive and you’re just focusing on these really nutrient-dense animal products, it really removes a lot of the inflammation that I was getting from, um, processed foods and alcohol and sugar and grain and all that kind of stuff.

Brett (00:09:19):
So, you know, my body responded really well to it. Starting in 2019, like I pretty much instantly went down to like one to two bowel movements a day. And for someone with colitis, that’s pretty much unheard of for that to happen that quickly. And, you know, in addition to that, my skin cleared up. I had, was making great gains in the gym, my mood, what my mood really improved. And uh, I basically got to a point where I got rid of all the inflammation and micro inflammation and for the past year I’ve been completely drug free because my blood work was so good. So, um, you know, it’s a, it’s a great testament to what diet and lifestyle can do. And our, a lot of the, what we’re trying to do through our podcast, Brad, is just, you know, make this information and this knowledge more readily available and try and make these stories more common so people can get off medication and have their own healing experiences.

Brad (00:10:12):
Thanks. I mean, that’s pretty rare for someone young, healthy, athletic to get taken down. I mean, your teammates, I’m sure Harry was chowing the processed foods and the pre-workout sugary drinks and the post-workout, uh, whatever, alcohol and, and pizza fest. So what do you think that is when we hear a story like that? Is this just your, uh, your bad luck combined with what a lot of young people are, are doing? Um, and and was, was, was plants part of the equation or was it mainly on the processed foods that were taking you down?

Brett (00:10:46):
Yeah, I really don’t wanna blame it on plants. I think for me it was just eating way too much processed food. And the, the interesting thing with colitis is you would think it would be the opposite, but it’s actually most common amongst men in their twenties. And I’m, and I’m not sure why that is, but, and they don’t know what the exact root cause is. They think there’s a genetic component, they think there’s a stress component and then a diet and lifestyle component. So I think I probably hidden on all those because <laugh>, I wasn’t living a healthy lifestyle. I was chronically stressed out because of baseball and school. And then also like my, I have a family history of stomach issues too. So I think it was some combination of those things and, you know, I just wasn’t really giving, I wasn’t giving my genes what they wanted and it, it kind of caught up to me when I was 21.

Brad (00:11:32):
Harry, what did the team do when Brett was struggling? I mean, losing 35 pounds, you’re not hitting any home runs. Maybe you’re not even getting to those outfield balls. I mean, this is terrible.

Harry (00:11:43):
You know, it’s funny, Brett and I talk about this a decent amount, but it’s easy to mask some of these things, especially when you’re a young guy. So like, I remember, so Brett and I were training for an Ironman as he was getting off of his medication. And I remember him telling me about him getting off the medication as we’re running along the Charles River in Boston. And I’m sitting here going, dude, I didn’t even really realize that you were in such bad condition. But then, you know, looking back when, when we talk about, you know, what, what he’s gone through, he’s talking about going to the bathroom 30 times a day and the implications of what that looks like, it’s, it’s absolutely insane to have thought that he was going through that. And like, people who are closest to him, including myself, like, didn’t even fully appreciate what that process was that he was going through.

Harry (00:12:32):
And, and like you said, I mean, you made a great point, like lifestyle wise, it’s not like Brett and I were living completely different lives. Like we were training hard and you know, during certain periods we’re eating better than we then you know, eating better during certain times of the year for performance. But then, you know, when it was the off season, maybe you have like a few weeks in a row where you’re not eating perfectly. Um, and lifestyle creep starts to happen. You’re not eating great, but, um, you’re still training hard so you still look good and people just are assume that you’re, you’re healthy, but that stuff catches up to you. And, and I think that a lot of young people, young people, especially athletes, can get away with a lot more than you know, the average person.

Brad (00:13:15):
Well, it’s also, I mean, that’s an extreme example where, you know, I think people can tell something’s wrong when you lose 35 pounds. Probably a lot of lean muscle, but I think a lot of people are walking around with, um, you know, subclinical, uh, just irregularities and difficulties that it’s, it’s not even worth mentioning. Probably not even going to get medical treatment for it. But, you know, the gas, bloating, digestive pain, you know, energy fluctuations between meals, this stuff has become the norm now such that we, we don’t even mention it or we just, we just assume it’s normal.

Brett or Harry (00:13:52):
A hundred percent. And people say to us all the time too, Brad, they’re like, oh, you know, you guys are so young to be in the space cuz we’re 28, 29 and we’re like, so many of our friends that have graduated from college a few years ago. Like, the amount of friends that I have that probably has like undiagnosed IBS or like they’re starting to put weight on or they talk about how crappy they feel all the time. It’s like a lot of this stuff is affecting young people now too, because we’ve lived our entire lives basically dependent on processed food. So that’s like a very motivating thing for us is to try and help to teach other people that, you know, it’s, it’s not an incredibly complex equation to get yourself healthy, whether it’s, you know, taking control of the food you put in your body, eating more really good quality animal protein, getting 10,000 steps a day, getting sunlight exposure, you know, it’s just these basic fundamental, fundamental pillars that we want everyone to know about, you know?

Brad (00:14:41):
Yeah. And on the positive side, it does seem like a certain segment of the younger population has really become tuned into this and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, you know, free thinking, second guessing the regime, the establishment, the, the, the billboards promoting the frozen treats and all the crap that we’ve had in place for many decades. But now finally with, uh, the ease of communication, it’s, it’s kind of nice to see even, uh, you know, quite, quite young people jumping in all the way like you guys and going to town and spreading the word and connecting with, with people in your, in your similar age group.

Harry (00:15:19):
Yeah. And, and I would say to that point, we try to keep our message really simple, but just like the internet makes it easy to access people and if you have a simple message and have fun with it, like people want to get involved with it. So like the Meat Mafia is obviously like a, a playful and fun little moniker, but it’s also, you know, we really do care about what we’re talking about. We think that there’s a lot of value in kind of simplifying the message and saying, Hey, like, we need to get back to eating real foods. We need to get back to connecting with our food system, cooking your meals. Like all these things are very basic steps to go through to live a healthy, more fulfilling life. So for us it’s like, what can we do in terms of building a brand that makes people want to connect with it and at the same time, like, enjoy the process of becoming healthier, which Brett and I both have, have had the pleasure of doing it, pleasure or not pleasure of doing at a younger age. So it’s, it’s uh, it is just enjoyable be, uh, being able to share these messages. Cause I, I do think that some of the conversations we’ve had have have really been valuable for a lot of people.

Brad (00:16:27):
Yeah. Well said. And speaking of simple and impactful tweets, I wanna read this list of, this, this list of items that, uh, we recommend that humans eat, that you guys came up with on, on the Meat Mafia Twitter account. It starts out meat, fruit, eggs, organs, oysters, marrow, raw dairy, raw honey, bone broth, orange juice, dark chocolate, fermented veggies. And then as far as lifestyle walk much, lift heavy, rest often, breathe more, sunbathe, create and community. Those are, those are our walking papers, man. Sounds like a, sounds like a wonderful life and a true nutrient dense diet that’s easy to digest and and gonna cover all the bases.

Brett or Harry (00:17:09):
Yeah. When I, if I could eat all of that and just do all those things every day, I, I think that’s like my epitome of thriving. I like, I, when I think about that list, it’s, it’s simple. Most of those foods can be consumed in very like easy, easy ways. Like you don’t need to overcomplicate it. And honestly, like most of those foods, there’s no big brand behind it either, which is kind of another thing that gets that slid in there is like, there’s not like, uh, an agenda behind those foods. <laugh>. Mm. Brad, the dark chocolate was

Brett or Harry (00:17:48):
Obviously an honor of you too. Yeah, we wanted to slide that one in there for you, Brad.

Brad (00:17:51):
I’m so glad that’s in there. Cuz Saladino, you know, the strictest of all, uh, on, on the, um, on, on the plant toxin scale and the sensitivities, and he makes a good point. But, um, he was on, uh, Mark Bell Power Project podcast and they said, uh, so what about dark chocolate? And Paul says, no way, that’s got this agent, that agent. And they’re like, forget you, man, we’re gonna eat our dark chocolate. But thanks for coming to a great show. But, it is important to kind of scrutinize, especially if you’re in trouble and having these horrible symptoms. But then I think we can tiptoe in the direction of optimization, including enjoying life. But I think we are on a tightrope sort of thing here where, um, I’ll get into it a little bit with people and be talking about, you know, cleaning up one’s diet and, and trying to get as ma maximum nutrient density.

Brad (00:18:40):
And then you’ll hear comments like, well, wait a sec, you know, everything in mo it’s really all about moderation, right? And my answer is absolutely f…ing And not because the, the modern diet is, is so pathetic. And the average health status of even guys in your age group, or whatever age group is, is really pathetic. So we’re comparing against a, a really trashed model, and I think it warrants an extreme approach in, in every single way to, to do all that you can and your ambition to do all those things every day. Yeah. Some days you’re probably gonna miss out on some of that, but it shouldn’t be that hard with all the freedom that we have and, and all the awareness and the knowledge in, in modern life.

Brett or Harry (00:19:23):
A hundred percent. And I think, you know, a really helpful mental model is just thinking about where your end goals are and where you want to get to. So I think about for me, um, you know, when I’m walking around the grocery store, it’s like, I’m really trying to live in that outer aisle where all the real foods are that you just mentioned. But with that being said, it’s like there still is a pull to the inner aisles where all the process crap is because these companies, you know, I think there’s 33,000 products in the average grocery store that are controlled by around 10 companies. There’s like that image that went viral of that food web, and it’s like Unilever, Coca-Cola, General Mills, Kelloggs, et cetera. And, you know, a lot of these companies have these food scientists that know the perfect combinations to create hyper palatable foods where you can’t stop.

Brett or Harry (00:20:06):
So they know how to make the saltiness, the crunch, the texture. So it’s like you’re going for a Dorito and you’re, you’re not eating two Doritos, you’re eating half the bag or the entire bag in my case. But I, but the thing is, is even being in this posting the Meat Mafia podcast, having my own experience with diet, I still feel that pull to the inner aisle. But for me, it’s like, I think about how good I feel when I eat those foods on the list that you read off, Brad. And for me it’s like, no bag of Doritos is worth it to, you know, it’s almost like that’s a vote to get me back into the hospital or have stomach issues again. So that’s, and I just recognize, I’m like, that’s not real food, that’s a food-like substance. Um, and I just am like, that’s, it’s just a no-go. So that’s kind of, that’s just something I think about if I ever feel that that temptation to go into some of those foods that you were talking about.

Brad (00:20:51):
Yeah, I guess it’s a blessing to have such a severe health condition that you really have to be on watch and know how vulnerable you are. Whereas if you can get away with a lot of stuff and you know, you’re drifting into it more years and more decades, where, um, you start to become a little more vulnerable, you may not even notice the cumulative effect of the stress of eating Oreo cookies every decade of your life. And, you know, what, whatever it takes to get people to clean up, um, we don’t want health crisis costing that the taxpayers, that the healthcare system, $40,000 every time you go in there that’s, that’s kind of rough and, and the pain and suffering that you went through, but hopefully you know, that awakening will occur. And when you say it’s, it’s not worth it, um, that’s a nice kind of, um, transition to make with your perspective.

Brad (00:21:44):
But I think it’s difficult to get there. And I’m appreciating sort of a bigger picture besides the insidious tempting foods and the marketing strategy. And that is, if you are inefficient at processing cellular energy internally, you’re gonna develop a need, a craving, a propensity to go and get crappy foods because you need to sustain your energy levels because you’re not good at burning fat, making ketones mobilizing energy from storage. And so it’s sort of like, it’s a shame on the corporate food giants for tempting us and luring us and putting those cartoons up when we were kids so we could get addicted to Reese’s peanut butter cups our whole life. But it’s also, if we’re able to clean up our diet and even take baby steps toward that then it seems like we lose our, uh, craving for these wonderful, delicious addictive foods.

Brad (00:22:40):
You know, they’re, they no longer have that power. And I’ve experienced this over time where, you know, I transition from regular milk chocolate to dark chocolate when I was, when I learned that it was healthier. And for a while the dark chocolate tasted kind of like cardboard, you know, it just didn’t have that intense immediate flavor. But now if someone gives me a milk chocolate, it’s too sweet. I don’t like it. And I’m not joking for the sake of sounding good on a podcast. It’s like, it, you literally have the capability of rewiring your taste buds away from nutrient deficient, processed foods that are hyper palatable to enjoying the most nutritious foods.

Brett or Harry (00:23:18):
Isn’t it amazing how your taste buds can evolve and change through, through diet? I mean, I experienced it firsthand and it is, it’s this weird phenomenon, but it, it, your taste buds do evolve. And for some context, like I used to, I used to work in corporate America and we had a visitor over from Europe and we went out to lunch and he’s like, how do you guys eat this salty food? And we were eating real food. And I’m like, what are you talking about? Like, this isn’t that salty. And then I, you know, started getting really strict with eating low carb, high fat, and started realizing, I’m like, oh my gosh, the saltiness in this food is, is actually un palatable. Like, it’s really, it’s, it’s un unmanageable when you kind of hit the reset button. So I do think that’s a really valuable point, and that, and that’s still just like, you know, real food coming from kind of a fast casual, fast casual restaurant. So that’s not even like the worst offenders when it comes to abusing that those salt in, in the in sweet taste buds that are taste bud receptors that are kind of driving that addiction, so to speak.

Brad (00:24:29):
I’d say even more crazy is how your mentality can become hijacked. And when I listen to Dr. Saladino for the first time in 2019, talk about how plant foods not only are unnecessary they could be counterproductive. And I started to think about the message and I listened to Shawnn Baker and I listened to Amber Ohearn, and I’m like, wow, these guys have, you know, a very interesting and, and scientifically valid, uh, argument here. And so I started looking at my daily salad differently and thinking about, wow, could this actually be, rather than the centerpiece of my incredibly healthy diet, could it be something that is, is suboptimal? And I started to lose my taste and lose my appreciation and my enjoyment. Same with the, uh, the broccoli that I carefully stirred, fried, and drizzled the butter over. And it’s sitting there on my plate and I’m looking at it like, do I want to eat this anymore? And I actually, um, it, it wasn’t purposeful, but my brain drifted away from the fixed and rigid belief that this stuff represents the ultimate expression of health to not sure if I need it. Maybe I should, maybe I should try eliminating this stuff. And that was a real mindblower because I lost my, I lost my taste, I lost my appetite for salad due to my thought processes, not, not even to my taste buds or anything like that.

Brett or Harry (00:25:55):
Wow.

Brett (00:25:55):
I feel like that’s one of the cool things about both you and Mark, that Harry and I have talked about before is like, there’s a lot of people in the space that are just, they’re so invested in one particular way of eating that they’re almost dogmatic about it. And there’s this, this resistance to change. And it’s been cool to see your progression from, you know, paleo to keto to two meals a day, to a meal a day, to experimenting with carnivore. And I think even when you came on our podcast, you were saying how you were trying to experiment with more carbs. You were going through like a whole experimentation process there. And I feel like that’s so important because like that’s, that’s where a lot of the beauty is, is it’s like this ability to take control of your body and really just determine what are the combination of foods and the inputs that make you feel your best. And that combination could change over time. And why would you not try and experiment and try and optimize and become the best version of yourself?

Brad (00:26:46):
Yeah, good point. I think we all deserve to experiment, especially in your case, Brett, when you were suffering and you were compelled to try a strict carnivore, uh, approach to, to basically detox and give your system a break. So, you know, I’d say anyone who’s suffering with something that’s nagging in the area of autoimmune inflammatory or digestive disturbances, you owe it to yourself to embark upon a restrictive diet. Probably the easiest one to follow and the most effective is that strict carnivore approach for, let’s say 30 days where you’re getting a lot of nutrition, you’re, you’re perfectly satiated, there’s no, there’s no struggling on it. And then you can, you know, uh, assess for improvements in, in conditions after 30 days. And then I think the real experimenting comes when, um, you’ve established this solid foundation that’s free from processed foods especially, and then, you know, see what you can, um, how, how different things, uh, play out over time.

Brad (00:27:46):
But then I’m also, you know, you hear so much about this and then I also do wonder like, uh, you know, not everything is your diet choices. You guys were talking about other points of healthy living as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, especially on the, on the tweet there. But you know, sometimes like, oh, I had a bad workout at the gym. It must have been all the carbs I ate last night. Well, maybe it was cuz you stayed up till till one in the morning, uh, watching highlights on sports center. You know, there’s a lot of variables of play, but to have a nice clean diet foundation, that’s when you have, you know, even set yourself up for potential.

Brett or Harry (00:28:21):
Yeah, I think you see that, we see that a lot on Twitter. There’s, there it’s very easy to just put so much emphasis behind one variable, whether it’s like a carnivore diet or people talk about raw milk, or they’ll just focus on one thing. And I think to your point, it’s like, you know, something like a carnivore diet, that’s a huge lever that you can pull, but it’s in conjunction with really good quality sleep, stress management, meditation, good quality exercise, sunlight exposure. There’s so many different things that operate in conjunction. And I do think for me, like the me taking control of my food for going carnivore, that was like the first big thing for me to pull. And then it was like all these other inputs started to come to where it was like, okay, now I wanna, I wanna sleep. I wanna really get eight hours.

Brett (00:29:04):
I wanna cut my caffeine consumption earlier. I want to implement a meditation practice. It was almost like this, um, it was like this, this compounding effect that built on top of each other. And I know Harry’s got an interesting story too, where mine was like, I was trying to correct this autoimmune disease. Harry was kind of like similar to a lot of other people. I think you, you know, you put on some weight and you started with just diet as like the first thing that you can control. So maybe that would be a good little story to talk through.

Harry (00:29:31):
Yeah. So right around the beginning of Covid, I was, you know, k kind of just trying to like shift the momentum in my life around my health. Like, I had realized that during my playing days, I could really rely on just like living in the gym and, and being a meat head to still look and feel good and then not, you know, I was always very disciplined in the gym and then would, would allow some, uh, slipups here and there in terms of nutrition. And then as soon as I entered the real world, I was not, I wasn’t going to the gym nearly as much and I saw my nutrition starting to slide. So, you know, the effects of that are obviously, you know, pretty noticeable after a year or two of living like that, right? So I had put on some weight and I’m like, dude, you’re not the athlete you used to be, man, and you want to, and now I was kinda like thinking about like, how can I break this paradigm and start getting back into being an athlete?

Harry (00:30:27):
So I was experimenting with running marathons, but I was still like, not in great shape, like, uh, not doing, not excelling at them by any means. And then Covid hit and I was like, all right, like, let’s figure this thing out. Let’s hit like the full reset button. So I went from cooking basically none of my meals to cooking all of my meals. Um, just like brought everything under my own control. I, I committed to learning one new recipe a week. Wow. So just kinda like incrementally getting more and more excited about cooking my own meals. And as soon as you learn three and have like three go-to meals, you’re like, oh, this is easy. I can, I can learn three this week. So you start to exceed your little, uh, lo lower bound of, of what you’re expecting of yourself. And within a really short, like six weeks, I had dropped a bunch of weight through a keto diet and it was really just like an animal-based diet, but I was incorporating Mark’s, uh, bigass salad, like that was a big part of it.

Harry (00:31:27):
Um, you know, cooking with a lot of eggs, beef, basically that list that, that you read off was kind of what I was relying on in terms of a food list. And then from a lifestyle perspective, I was, I wasn’t commuting an hour each way anymore, so I was able to pick up a few extra minutes of sleep each day. And I committed, you know, a little bit of that extra time towards getting out and walking every day. I was really intentional about making sure I hit 15,000 steps. And so I was, I was basically just doing kind of like, you know, not, not super intense exercise, but I was, I was getting out and moving around and then I was focusing on the diet stuff and I, I dropped like 30 pounds in, you know, six, six to eight months of just being really intentional about it.

Harry (00:32:14):
Like no slipups, no alcohol, just wanted, wanted to change, uh, the course of, you know, how things were going. And that had a, a massive effect of how I thought about things going forward, where it’s like you just have to focus on the fundamentals, like be, be a fundamentalist when it comes to these types of things. Like don’t go for like the extreme, like, I’m gonna like, for some people maybe that works, but like you, you can really just reduce it down to a few core principles like food, sleep in, in the gym, and just start with that and focus on those three pillars and you can make a lot of progress just kind of investing your time the right way in those three areas.

Brad (00:32:55):
Yeah, I like that. Well said. Now, was this in Austin, one of the fittest most health conscious communities or did that matter your environment?

Harry (00:33:05):
Oh, totally. It totally matters. I was in Boston, um, and I, it was pretty, since it was the beginning of lockdowns, it was pretty isolating, uh, like, which might have actually worked in my favor cuz there was no social pressures. So like no one was going to bars, no one was going to restaurants. And I, for me it was great cuz I was like, all right, there’s no, there’s no Friday, Saturday, let’s go do stuff. It was just like, no one’s gonna do, no one’s gonna do anything cuz the lockdown. So I was like, this is a good excuse to just kind of focus on things that I want to prioritize. So,

Brad (00:33:43):
Because that’s a better story than all the people who, who lost control of their, their health and gained weight during Covid. The whole thing doesn’t make sense to me. Like, why are you blaming something unrelated, but oh no, that my gym was closed so I got outta shape. Like, what the hell are you talking about? You know? Yeah. What about the staircase in your, in your building? Like there’s, yeah, there should be no excuses, but of course we do know that environment’s super important.

Harry (00:34:08):
It really is. And on that point, since I’ve moved to Austin, I’ve been really conscious about where I’m, where I’m spending my time, who I’m spending my time with. And it’s amazing how community plays such an incredible role in health. I think it’s environment is the foundation of all this. Like, it will dictate what you do in terms of consuming food, how you approach going to the gym, the thoughts you have. I think the people you spend your time with is critical and they’ll keep you accountable and move you in the right direction if you’re spending the time with the right people. And if you’re not, it’s the exact opposite. So yeah. that’s been one of the, the benefits of what Brett and I have kind of fallen into with working towards this, that Ironman that we did last year. And then, you know, this year we, we did a 100K race, we’ve kind of just started really just competing with like in, in a very like, collegial way. Like, hey, like let’s just make this our lifestyle and it can just be the two of us, but we’ve slowly learned like other people wanna be a part of it. Other people wanna sign up for the events that we’re gonna sign up for. So, but you know, just having like one other brother in arms to be like, Hey, we’re gonna just make this our lifestyle, this will work. So that, that’s been very rewarding about this whole process of building the Meat Mafia.

Brad (00:35:30):
Yeah, that’s great. I mean, you’re not in the same town yet, but um, if you don’t have that perfect winning environment like dreamy Austin, Texas with all the attributes, you have to create your own, you’re compelled to, and you can do that digitally now where you have, you know, the accountability partner or someone that you’re, you’re right in sync with. And, um, I have, uh, numerous childhood friends who I still keep in touch with. And of course we were athletes back in the day and a lot of athletes back in the day now sit on the couch and watch the NFL on Sunday Yes. And talk about how great their undefeated team was back in the day. But, um, I really think it’s important to, you know to inspire and, and bring, bring others with you on the journey. If you might be the first person to, uh, toe your foot in the water for that triathlon swim or whatever, um, but then also find people that, that, uh, cause you to, to bring up to your a game. So it’s a, it’s a delicate balance, but I think now more than ever, it’s easier to connect. But I, I should ask a question here at the end of my end of my rant and, um, what the heck are these former baseball players doing going into deep endurance? Like how did you get the inclination to do that?

Brett (00:36:40):
It’s a good, it’s a good question and I’ll preface it by saying, I remember my senior year we had to do Harry, I forget what the name of that 5K was that we had to do in the fall every single year.

Harry (00:36:50):
Dude, I completely forget. Uh, I forget. But yeah, it was, that was always a struggle for a lot of people on our

Brett (00:36:58):
Team. And I walked the entire thing because that’s how, that’s, that’s how bad I was at long distance running. There was like a pack of guys that were like, were like, oh, we’re not running this thing, we’re gonna walk. And I was, and I was one of those guys. And I don’t know, I just felt like for me, I graduated 2017, Harry graduated 2016, so he was a year older. And I just left school feeling like, I just felt like I kind of underachieved relative to my potential. Um, I was like, I was an okay to slash goodish student, not great relative to what I thought I could have been. I felt like my baseball career could have been a lot better. I felt like I could be a better friend, like a better son to my parents. Like I really just like when I graduated, I went back home for a few months before I started working and just thought on a lot of this stuff.

Brett (00:37:42):
And, um, around that same time period, like David Goggins was really starting to get more popular and more mainstream. And one of the things that he talked a lot about was like his, one of his methods for self-improvement was just lacing up his running shoes and starting to run. So like, I very vividly remember going out for like my first three mile run ever just running it at like a 10 minute clip. And that was a big deal for me because I’d never really intentionally ran on my own before and like anything else, right? You start doing it more and more and the momentum builds and you start running. I think I ran like six or eight miles on my own and I was like, all right, well why don’t I sign up for a half marathon, do the half marathon, do multiple half marathons, marathons going to triathlon, triathlon goes into half Ironman to Ironman to a 100K.

Brett (00:38:25):
And it’s kind of just like anything else, it’s like that, that gradual momentum over time. And that’s a big reason why we’re even sitting here on this podcast with you is that Harry and I were both having really good experiences in Covid, getting really healthy cooking a lot of our meals and we were looking for that next challenge and we wanted something that we could sign up for that scared us that would also like, kind of help bring our friendship together. Cuz he was up in Boston and I was in New York, so we signed up for Ironman Waco in Texas, which is a really interesting location to do, uh, an Ironman if you’ve ever been to central Texas before, there’s not a ton going on, but we said, look, we could go do the race and go for the weekend, or we could make a whole experience out of it and go get an Airbnb and stay in Austin for a month and just switch it up.

Brett (00:39:11):
And that’s, you know, that’s, that’s what we did and we were cooking all of our meals and building off of each other’s energy like Harry was talking about. And that kind of naturally developed into, into the Meat Mafia. But yeah, it’s, it’s been a, it’s been a pretty natural progression, but I think that’s what’s cool about doing things like the 100K is that I, you can sit here and say, I remember being in 2017 and I couldn’t run two miles and I was just getting outta the hospital. And it’s just pretty cool to see that constant progression over time, you know?

Harry (00:39:41):
Yeah, I I feel like the endurance stuff too is kind of this endless pursuit. Like you can always get better at some aspect of it. Um, and if you’re not like constantly working at some of it, like your fitness does get affected. So it, it’s like, it’s almost this amazing thing and like some you can see it get taken to the extreme and be like somewhat toxic for some people, but like for a lot of people it’s really, I think it’s an incredible tool of just like personal development, you develop better time management skills better. Uh, like I now plan my weeks ahead of time, which is like not something I was all that good at beforehand and like really just like having certain days, like this is what I do, um, for, you know, certain days this is exactly what’s happening. Like I know, I know a week ahead of time what exactly is happening. So for me, I think that there’s a lot of other things that happen when you go through taking on such a big challenge that you don’t really expect to happen. Then you look back and you’re like, oh man, I got better at just like life in general. So, uh, that’s a win.

Brad (00:40:48):
Well said. I love that. And especially if there’s, you know, been any boundaries that have held us back somewhere at some point in our lives and then you get out onto the Ironman run course, there really is no way to prepare for that. I mean, yeah, you can do all that training, but at some point you’re gonna be checking in with your brain going, Hey, do I, do I have what it takes? And um, yeah that’s, that’s, that can lead to some, uh, real breakthroughs in other areas of life. But I think, um, it’s, it’s not easy to make that connection and it’s, it’s nice that, you know, you guys have realized the power of leveraging that. Cuz I think some people, like you said, they just get stuck in whatever rut. If they’re a meathead at the gym and they’re not looking at their diet or they’re an extreme endurance athlete and they’re, you know, chronically over-training, rather than treating it as a, a peak performance endeavor where you wanna do it right rather than just do it.

Brad (00:41:42):
And that kind of stuff I shake my head at sometimes cuz it’s like, hey, these are the best lessons to learn from persevering through these athletic challenges. Um, you know, speaking of Goggin, it’s like he’s got so much great content, has inspired so many people, uh, but then he tells that story of, uh, the hundred miler where his leg seized up at mile 80 and he, you know, he couldn’t get out of his chair. But then he, uh, somehow got up and, and carried on for the last 20. And, you know, sometimes in life I’m thinking, you know, that would’ve been smarter just to drop out at mile 80 and say, I I made this tremendous achievement of running 80 miles and I don’t want my wife to drag me up our apartment complex stairs while I’m myself because that’s just not part of the, the overall picture of becoming a better person through these athletic challenges. So I get to, I get to tease them, uh, back at ’em because, uh, sometimes we can forget the nuance of these lessons where sometimes you wanna push and persevere and not give up. And then other times, um, you know, if, if it sucks in whatever town you’re living in, then then bail and go, go start again in Austin, I mean, it, it’s okay to kind of move along

Brett or Harry (00:42:48):
A hundred percent. And I think that a lot of the things that we’ve done the last year are predicated or, you know, inspired from a lot of the things that we’ve done through endurance athletics. That’s why I think you make such a good point because there are a lot of people in the fitness community that they, there’s so much contention and debate around, you know, long distance cardio. It’s not good. You should just be lifting heavy and sprinting. And it’s like, yeah, but that’s, it’s, that’s not necessarily the point. It’s like, we’re not just doing this stuff for the physical benefits or just to stay in shape. Like there’s so much power to signing up for a big race once a year that really scares you, that you put on the calendar and you don’t know if you’re, you’re ready for it, but you trust that you’ll prepare and you’ll show up on race day.

Brett or Harry (00:43:28):
And like you were saying, you like, you get to the start line of the Ironman, you’re in your wetsuit and you’re like, all right, I’m gonna go bike 2.4 miles, I’m gonna, or I’m gonna, I’m gonna swim 2.4 bike 112 and then run a marathon in your mindset, your mind is just racing down the road and you have this like constant battle for yourself to just stay as present as possible. Like one stroke, one pedal, um, you know, and it, you learn so much about yourself through those races in those pursuits and it’s, it’s an addicting feeling, honestly.

Brad (00:43:56):
Love it guys. And so this was, uh, the training camp for the Waco Ironman where the, the, the idea for Meat Mafia was born. Like tell us how you, you did your first step of, of launching into Twitter and then following that and that a great response that you got. How did you come up with the, the idea to kick off the podcast as well?

Harry (00:44:17):
Yeah, so I had the idea of moving to Austin in August of that year, and we had shifted from going from, we were originally signed up for Ironman Canada and then we moved it to Waco. And so we got down to Austin. I was, uh, working on a business idea outside of the Meat Mafia, but it was related to he, the health space and regenerative agriculture, which previously I had been working in real estate. So like this was a totally new field. And my first inclination was like, I need to like really kind of just start meeting people in this space and like connecting with people and formulating my own thoughts and ideas around all this new, uh, material that I’m, I’m really trying to like just dive into. And I didn’t wanna go back to like grad school or anything.

Harry (00:45:05):
I just wanted to start creating stuff. So, um, started writing online and um, I was writing for a blogger named Texas Slim and just talking about regenerative agriculture and Brett, not Brett was literally, literally sleeping on my floor at this time. And we were just talking about, you know, these ideas, these principles that we had kind of been coming across in terms of the nutrition side of things, but then also tying it back to like really the quality of the food and how the food system does play such a massive role in like, the overall health and, uh, sustainability in the sense of like, can we continue to eat the way that we’re eating right now at scale across humanity? I don’t think so. So we’re like, can we, can we start to educate around like eating properly and sourcing good quality ingredients, um, and kind of incorporating our own experience of, of, uh, our physical endeavors and, and nutrition.

Harry (00:46:02):
So we started writing on that and uh, came up with these anonymous names, we’re both fans of coffee stuff, uh, and, and felt like it was appropriate, you know, if you’re gonna go up against big food and, and uh, kind of,

Brad (00:46:13):
Oh, I get it now and it’s.

Harry (00:46:15):
Some of the, uh, some of the vegan narratives out there that, that are scoring some, some gravity you need to have a little bit of a Mafiosa personality. So, um, Brett and I took to that and we started writing in January. We were real, like really writing on Twitter in January and then, uh, March 1st came around and we just had the idea, we’re like, we write about this stuff, we’re gaining traction, but it would be great if we built another medium and mode to kind of get this message out there. And we thought like podcasting has been something that’s really, we’re both huge podcast consumers and we’ve both felt like our voices, given what we’d already written and learned about a bunch in our own personal experience.

Harry (00:47:04):
Just being able to put a voice behind some of the stuff that we’ve already put out there is a really powerful next step. So we were like, let’s just pair these two together, this written piece, this, this podcasting piece and see what we can do. And we just dove head first into the podcasting stuff. I mean, we did like, right, we were recording like eight episodes a week, sometimes <laugh> like it, it was getting outta control there for a little bit. And, um, it, but it was great because we learned how to podcast. We learned how to like, ask good questions. We learned the dual co-host dynamic a little bit better, just like really dove in. And it was also good because we were able to get better and better guests very quickly. So, um, you know, we’ve had some amazing people like yourself on, um, in a few other, you know, killer guests. Uh, it, it’s been an amazing learning experience. I think both of us are just like very, very excited that we took the step because it, it was well worth it.

Brad (00:47:59):
Love it. Listeners, what do you think? These guys are pretty awesome co-guests as well as being co-hosts on the Meat Mafia podcasts. I, I love it. Um, what are some of your favorite, um, takeaways and highlights from, uh, from guests and from insights that have caused you to maybe think differently or recalibrate, uh, based on, you know, meeting these great people that you invite on?

Brett (00:48:24):
That’s a good question. And I think what’s been interesting about the show, Brad, is we, we basically tried to create the show. Like Harry said, we’ve consumed so many podcasts for so long, we’re like we were the guests that we really wanna have on and how do we wanna run this show in a way that like we wish that we had when we were just listening to podcasts. And so we’ve been trying to attack the angle of, hey, what’s gone wrong with our food system, but how do we fix it? So we’ve tried to have this holistic approach on where it’s like, you know, we’ve had on a ton of doctors, we have people that are treating chronic disease with low carbohydrate diets. We’ve had on regenerative farmers, farmers, um, different people from all these different spheres to try and figure out how do we actually get healthy.

Brett (00:49:05):
So I think for both of us, the regenerative ranchers that we’ve had on are fascinating because you actually get insight into all of the effort and energy that goes into really raising your food the right way. Like when we say grass-fed, grass-finished, how much harder that actually is to raise cattle that way when it would be so easy to just feed them corn, soy, et cetera, just to fatten them up really quickly to try and have like a locate a hyper-local processing facility so that you can kill these cows in like a, you know, humane way so the animal doesn’t get stressed out. And us as the consumer, you know, we’re getting a much better product. So I think just like hearing some of these stories from these ranchers and everything they go through, it’s just incredibly inspiring. Um, and it’s motivating cuz we wanna be able to give them the mic so that they can get their story out there and try and teach people, you know, look, number one, you should always be trying to to buy food that’s within your budget.

Brett (00:50:00):
So if you can only buy meat from the grocery store, totally get it because you’ll still be better off than 99% of the crap in the inner aisle. But if you can make that intentional effort to go actually find a farmer close to you or a rancher, you know, you can pretty much guarantee that they’re gonna be growing their product incredibly well. Grass-fed, grass-finished, and it sounds cheesy, but it’s like they’re almost raising the animal with love because they’re incentivized to care about your health because their, their pool of customers is much, much lower. So if they’re not giving you the best quality meat, you’re not gonna go back to them. Whereas if you’re buying meat in the grocery store, it’s being processed by a, by a slaughterhouse, that’s, oh, it’s a monopoly of four of them that control about 90% of all the meat. So it’s just a very different experience and autonomy of the food that you’re taking in. So I think for me, just learning from these ranchers, which was not a field that I knew much about prior to starting this, that it’s been really inspiring and really, uh, just influential to me.

Harry (00:50:57):
Yeah, I think some of the deeper conversations we’ve had have been with, just piggybacking off of what Brett said, um, with Taylor Collins, who started Epic Provisions with his wife Katie, and they were endurance athletes, athletes before. Brad, I don’t know if you’ve had the Taylor on or come across him before, but I, he would be an awesome guess for you. But he’s since started, uh, Force of Nature, which is over generative supply, uh, supply chain supported beef delivery company. And then he also started Roam Ranch, which is a bison ranch in Fredericksburg, Texas. And they’re focused all on restoring the soil and, and really just his perspective. I mean, he and his wife used to be vegans. They’re, and then they were fully animal based. Katie was really struggling with some serious, serious health problems. And like, I just think they have an amazing perspective on, on what holistic health really means.

Harry (00:51:54):
And there was a moment in the interview where I said, what’s, what’s worse off right now, soil health or human health? And Taylor goes, they’re one in the same. And I was like, oh, shoot. They’re like, you know, what we’re doing to soil in terms of like abusing it with these fertilizers and pesticides is really just kind of a parallel to how we’re treating our own bodies with processed foods. So it, it, it was just that interesting paradigm or, or interesting perspective to, to take. And then another one was, um, Kate Kavanaugh. She’s a butcher, um, and a regenerative farmer as well. And she’s also reformed previously a vegan, now animal-based. So it’s like, I just think they, they bring this like very full lens of like what nutrition in the food system could and should look like. And I, I just, I, I pulled a lot of value out of both of those interviews. They, they were pretty amazing.

Brad (00:52:52):
Nice. Uh, can you guys describe further when we use the term regenerative agriculture regenerative farm, what that means?

Harry (00:53:01):
Yeah. The, the concept is really about raising, uh, animals in line with nature and, and how nature intended them to be raised. So it’s low input, meaning there’s no chemical fertilizers being used, and you’re really using a, a vertically integrated, uh, multi-species approach to getting rid of pests on your, your property so that the plants and grasses can grow appropriately so that other animals can come in and graze on those grasses and then restore the soil. So there’s, there’s layers to the ecosystem that are all playing a part. So it’s kind of this holistic way of looking at, you know, a holistic land management is, is what it would be boiled down to. It’s how can we bring all these different animals who play a certain role on the land to raise a vibrant ecosystem that has biodiversity and, and all these, um, amazing compounding factors that create really, really high quality food. And, uh, we had Joel Sellon on who talks about just like the benefits of this holistic land management, even to the, to the level of the micronutrients in the food itself. Like he was saying, his eggs are like way more nutritious than the egg you would get at, you know, your, your store. So, um, that’s sort of, that would be my definition of regenerative agriculture. I dunno if you have anything to add there, Brett?

Brett (00:54:27):
No, the only other thing that I would say is, just to contrast what you’re saying, um, thinking about some of these, like just really large scale, almost like factory farms that most people see when you, when you think of a farm, um, to grow corn, wheat, and soy, they’re, they’re doing something called mono crop agriculture. So they’re basically stripping, they basically completely depleted the soil because instead of kind of doing these principles of biomimicry, like Harry’s talking about, where it’s, its real ecosystem where everything’s playing off of each other and the cows are pooping and it’s regenerating the soil, these factory farms, they’re basically just optimizing for one crop. So they’ve stripped everything out, they bulldoze everything out so you can just grow this one crop. Um, so it’s very interesting to go out to somewhere like a White Oak Pastures in Bluffton, Georgia, which we got to do a few weeks ago, and just see what does it actually look like to replicate nature and not have fertilizers out there and see all these animals, kind of like, like beautifully inner working into the ecosystem.

Brett (00:55:24):
And, um, one of the things that Harry mentioned earlier is that we had Taylor and Katie on the show, and so after they sold Epic, they said, look, we really wanna put our money where our mouth is and buy, buy a regenerative farm and buy a farm, generate the land and be bison, bison, ranchers, which is such an, which is such an interesting thing. But they really wanted to put their money where their mouth is. So they bought this like thousand acre property out in Fredericksburg, Texas. And, um, the property was just completely depleted, beat to shit. And all the experts told them that it was gonna take them at least 20 years, maybe 30 years, to regenerate the land. And just by introducing a single pack of bison onto the land, they regenerated the soil within five years. Um, so it’s, it’s a pretty amazing story when you let these rumin animals work and do what they’re supposed to do. How the whole ecosystem kind of comes together by introducing this one thing.

Brad (00:56:17):
Is it also the case that these regenerative farms can actually sequester carbon, in other words, um, counter this widely touted criticism against eating meat and eating cattle as the, the greenhouse gas emissions? I understand if you do it right, you can have a completely different story.

Harry (00:56:39):
Yeah. White Oak Pastures published, when they were, I think maybe after the process of, of, uh, I think it was General Mills who, who did the study with White Oak Pastures. And they essentially talked about how regenerative farming can be carbon negative. And what White Oak Pastures was doing was carbon negative. When you talk about restoring the soil, these cows are actually helping plants pull carbon out of the atmosphere and put it back into the ground. So it’s quite an amazing process. And to note there, the soil itself is a, is a larger carbon sink than the atmosphere and forest by a factor of three and five. So it’s like we can kind of start to right size some of the carbon and climate change arguments that people are putting out there just through focusing on or incentivizing this type of farming.

Harry (00:57:41):
It’s a small amount of how in terms of just the scale right now, it’s, it’s small relative to, you know, the entire food system. But if we do start to push the incentives in the direction of, of raising cattle this way and raising our food this way, it can have an incredible effect on some of these environmental problems. And the carbon is just like the one aspect of that. Like, uh, Will Harris, who we talked to a bunch, talks about how the, the water cycle is improved, biodiversity is improved, a number of different factors that all play into just a healthier planet. Um, and so I think it’s something worth investing time and energy and supporting because it really does have some positive, uh, externalities and prospects to it.

Brad (00:58:36):
Uh, what do you mean there when you say the soil is a bigger factor by multiples?

Brett or Harry (00:58:43):
Yeah,

Brad (00:58:43):
It’s from the atmosphere and what else? Like that’s kind of,

Brett or Harry (00:58:48):
And so like forest,

Brad (00:58:51):
Oh, forest and the

Brett or Harry (00:58:52):
Carbon or carbon sink and the atmosphere is a carbon sink, meaning that they can hold carbon, but soil holds, it compared to forest, it holds five x more carbon. And compared to the atmosphere, it holds three x more carbon. So if you can, if you can start to, but what we’re doing is we’re making this, we’re turning this soil into dirt so it can’t store the carbon in the same way that it, it should be able to do. So when we start implementing some of these practices and really getting the organic compounds back in the soil, we can get water infiltrating back into the water table and get life back on the land. And that’s when carbon can start to get pulled back into the, the soil and kind of balance out where, where the carbon is being stored in our planet. So

Brad (00:59:40):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> wild. So in contrast, the mono cropping agriculture, a lot of which is used to do wheat, corn, soy, and plants. So if you’re a highly conscious plant- based eater, because you don’t wanna ruin the environment by eating meat, um, we can kind of flip the script and realize that the factory farming, uh, is, is a great contributor to the problem. Um, so when you bite in your vegan sandwich, you can, um, you know, acknowledge that, uh, this is, this is a big contribution to the, the greenhouse gas emissions, whereby if you go get some meat from, um, a sustainable farm, regenerative farm, um, you could be, uh, doing, doing a solid, it’s, it’s an amazing insight cuz it, it knocks out one of the biggest arguments, uh, and biggest propaganda against, uh, an animal-based diet of sustainably raised animals.

Brett or Harry (01:00:37):
Yeah, it’s interesting you kind of see this pinballing in the plant-based and vegan community between nutri between nutritional arguments and environmental arguments. And, you know, for the past 50 years, I think people have been, they’ve been able to get away with these, um,

Brad (01:00:52):
Nutritional, right now the Mafia is on them. We’re gonna find you, we’re gonna hunt you down. Set you straight. Yeah,

Brett (01:00:58):
Yeah. No, but it’s sad though because there’s been this, um, there’s strong aversion to saturated fat and cholesterol and it’s like, you see it all the time with maybe someone that’s in their forties or fifties and they start going keto or carnivore and they lose a ton of weight, their waist size goes down, their fasting blood sugar goes down, their blood pressure improves, all these symptoms are great, and then their doctor is just looking at that LDL cholesterol number because maybe it increased a little bit because they had animal products and they immediately get ’em on a statin or tell ’em to discontinue their diet. And it’s such a shame because there’s so many people, ourselves included, that have gotten healthier towards running towards these products. And I think that there’s starting to be enough literature where people are waking up to what nutrient density actually means and how animal products really are that.

Brett (01:01:45):
And I feel like in response to that, there’s this big push within the vegan and plant-based community to now really push, push the envelope with some of these environmental arguments, which is why what Harry is talking about is so valuable. It’s because to be able to like really set the narrative straight and talk through regenerative agriculture and carbon sequestering, and also I think we have an obligation to point our family and friends in the right direction and arm people with the right like, you know, documentaries and podcasts and just things that they can use to really educate themselves. Like I think Sacred Cow does an amazing job of kind of being like this unbiased documentary and making like the proper case of meat in the environment. And then also, um, as part of like a nutrient dense diet, which is such a contrast to these vegan films that come out after every few years, whether it’s like game changers, forks over knives that are, um, they’re very like colorized and there’s a lot of propaganda and they know how to make the emotional peel and the morality of killing animals. And, you know, people go vegan, they feel terrible. Like Harry was mentioning Kate Kavanaugh that came on the show. There are so many women that have been formally plant-based that have come on our show, that have mentioned, um, like fertility, PMs symptoms, how much they’ve improved by switching from plant-based foods to these really nutrient dense animal-based products. So, um, that’s why we just to get support and really correct the narrative there.

Brad (01:03:08):
And that’s what you’re doing on the Meat Mafia podcast. I hope listeners will go over there and enjoy some of these great educational opportunities. Oh my goodness. Brett Sollozoi, Harry Clemenza, the Meat Mafia throwing down. It was so great to connect with you guys. Um, you can, uh, shout out the, the Twitter account and everywhere else where we wanna connect with you.

Brett (01:03:34):
Yeah, so we, Harry and I have separate Twitter accounts, so, um, as you mentioned, we are kind of like pseudo anonymous on Twitter, so my Twitter handle is at Mr.Sollozo and then Harry’s is at Harry Clemenza and we’ll send you the links to that. And then also our podcast is the Meat Mafia Podcast. It’s on every major podcast platform. And then we also have a sub stack, um, website called the Meat Mafia Podcast where we, we release daily articles on just what’s going on in the food system. So, yeah, that’s where you can check us out.

Brad (01:04:04):
What is the next big endurance goal you’re going after now?

Brett or Harry (01:04:08):
Ooh,

Brett or Harry (01:04:10):
I’m working on a, I’m running a half Ironman. I’m doing the Half Ironman, Waco. I’ve been training down here group. Um, and just really enjoying the process. I think getting some, previously I had not been getting any coaching, I’d just been trying to do it myself and, um, getting some serious coaching has been amazing, like the community aspect of it and getting a little bit more dialed in on, on how to actually make some serious leaps and improvements in my time. So it’s that, that’s my next one and I’ve got another, I’ve got a trail marathon lined up for the rest of the year, but that, that’s it for now for me.

Brad (01:04:46):
Okay guys, keep it up. Sollozo and Clemenza, the Meat Mafia coming to you. Thanks for listening everybody. Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support. Please email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions, and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list at bradkearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bi-monthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with Apple Podcasts or wherever else you listen to the shows, that would be super incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the B.rad podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a sound bite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember,B.rad.

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