Michael Kummer

I am so excited to welcome Michael Kummer to the show!

Michael is a healthy living and technology enthusiast, founder of MK Supplements (a freeze dried animal organ supplement company), and a popular blogger who has a passion for sharing information and solutions to complex problems in plain, easy to understand language. Oh, and he’s trilingual (German, English, Spanish). In this episode, Michael shares what he has learned from his past athletic endeavors, important lessons he realized about mind over body and using that tool responsibly, and some really interesting insights about parenting.

I also recently came across Michael’s fantastic website, which is full of thoughtful insights, such as five steps you can take immediately to dramatically improve your health and well-being. The five steps are:

  1. Avoid all seed and vegetable oils (and products that contain them).
  2. Avoid all processed carbs (and products that contain them).
  3. Consume predominantly meat and fat from responsibly-raised animals.
  4. Make organ meats a regular part of your diet. (If you don’t like their taste, use freeze-dried organ meat capsules.)
  5. Limit your intake of plants.

Check out Michael’s lifestyle guide on his website here.


Today’s guest helps clarify some of the dieting concepts that have been promoted. [00:50]

Avoid all seed and vegetable oils, processed carbs, and grain-based products, consume meat and fat, organ meats, and limit your intake of plants. [02:50]

Mike’s athletic career in Austria framed his interest using in health and fitness. He recalls a coach that was pushing too much. [05:55]

The mind is significantly more powerful than the body. In the beginning, Mike paid little attention to nutrition. [08:37]

Mike operates by pushing through the pain as a result of the early coaching. Is that the best way? [10:14]

Even in business and in parenting one should know when to push and when to back off. [13:55]

How does Mike manage a conversation of challenge regarding his nutrition advice? [17:46]

Does there have to be a natural talent to succeed in sports? [23:19]

After moving to the US for his work in technology, Mike’s career has evolved into fitness blogging.  [29:18]

After watching Supersize Me, Mike’s life changed. His family went paleo, and his stomach problems disappeared. [34:42]

Before working out, is it better to work out in a fasted state and then fuel? [42:42]

Fasting works for some people depending on the workout regimen, time of day, and amount of carbs consumed before. It’s a very individual decision for what works best.  [45:47]

Exercise, fasting, and changing your diet can be stressors or are likely stressors to your body. If you are already stressed out, it’s probably not a good day to fast. [47:46]

Having evolved from the standard American diet, to paleo, then keto, then carnivore, is Mike thinking the is at the ultimate level? [52:01]

How did Mike make the decision to home-school his kids? [56:34]

Freeze-dried organ meats are an important part of the nose-to-tail diet plan. [01:03:29]

A more simple life is in the future for Mike and his family even though he is a tech whiz. [01:09:25]



We appreciate all feedback, and questions for Q&A shows emailed to podcast@bradventures.com. If you have a moment, please share an episode you like with a quick text message, or leave a review on your podcast app. Thank you!

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (00:00:50):
Hey, listeners, I’m so excited to introduce you to this wonderful guest named Michael Kummer. He has a sensational website, which I only recently came across, full of really thoughtful and well presented information about diet optimization, lifestyle, and even technology. He’s a total tech whiz, and that’s his previous career before he dedicated himself full-time to the health and fitness and the ancestral health scene. He’s a big proponent of animal-based eating with sensible intake of the necessary fruit and honey and easy to digest carbohydrates that help you perform and recover. So this guy’s right up my alley. He’s also a former elite, international level junior sprinter. So where he competed in the junior world Championships, he was at the very highest level, uh, running a fantastic a hundred meter time of 10.53 back when he was this is in the under 20 year old competition.

Brad (00:01:46):
He hails from the great nation of Austria and he gives us some really interesting and thoughtful background about his athletic endeavors and the important lessons that he learned about mind over body and how to use that tool responsibly and how it can also become your worst enemy. So it’s really a wide ranging show with a real thought leader who’s out on the cutting edge and describing everything nicely on his blog. He also is a huge proponent of freeze-dried animal organ supplements. He can see why I like this guy. He’s got his own brand called MK, bottling up the liver and the other true super foods of the planet. So I think you’re gonna get a lot out of this some interesting perspectives about parenting coming in here. So all kinds of fun stuff from Mike Kummer. And we’ll have the links in the show notes where you can visit his website and especially subscribe to his email newsletter which I referenced frequently because it was such a great presentation.

Brad (00:02:50):
In fact, I’m gonna give you this quick five bulleted list because we didn’t get to it in the show. But when you see these things at a glance, it means a lot to lot to me cause I’m constantly trying to like, simplify my message, have it resonate with a, uh, a brief conversation if someone happens to be interested without getting into, uh, listen to our hour long show. But sometimes you wanna say like, Hey, this is what this animal-based, uh, diet is all about. And so here’s his five bullet points in terms of, um, what to do about healthy eating. Number one is avoid all seed and vegetable oils and all products that contain them. Number two is avoid all processed carbohydrates and products that contain them. So that would be sweet and beverages. It would be sugary treats and sweets, and it would be the many refined grain-based products such as breads and cereals and pasta and so forth.

Brad (00:03:42):
Number three, consume predominantly meat and fat from responsibly raised animals. Butcherbox.com/brad kearns. Number four, make organ meats a regular part of your diet. And if you don’t like their taste, use freezed-dried organ meat capsules, brad kearns.com/MOFO or michael kummer.com. And his product is called MK Supplements. Oh my gosh. Number five is limit your intake of plants. And we didn’t get too into that, uh, attribute here, but of course I have great content with Dr. Paul Saladino, lengthy interviews and my reflections on the animal-based movement, especially the rethinking of the role of these widely regarded healthy plant foods in the diet. Things like the leafy green family, the cruciferous family, and the categories of nuts, seeds, stems and leaves that potentially can cause adverse reaction due to the concentration of natural plant toxins. So this is all about progressing on this journey.

Brad (00:04:52):
Mike talks about his various stages of getting into it, starting with viewing the documentary Supersize Me. And I think you’re gonna get a lot out of it. So enjoy Mike Kummer. You’re a fast guy. I couldn’t catch up to you in LA , no wonder because you got that 10.5 300 meters on your, on your resume. It’s such a pleasure to connect over Zoom here. And, um, I just wanna get to know you with the audience cuz you’re my kind of guy, man. He’s a former elite international junior sprinter. And now all about the diet optimization, especially this continued refinement. I love your article. I want people to go to, uh, your, your website and, um, and read some of those great blog articles inside of, Oh, it was a newsletter article that just laid out your whole journey. So, uh, maybe we could start with just getting some background information. Hopefully you’ll touch on that sensational a hundred meter performance and your background as an athlete and take us all the way to present day and what you’re doing with the organ meat supplements and all that great stuff.

Mike (00:05:56):
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity, Brad. Thanks for having me on the show. But yeah, it was actually, it’s not a, it’s not even a newsletter. It’s actually one of my emails that you get when you sign up for the newsletters. It’s like part of the sequence, I guess to, you know, you through, you know, attrition’s sleep and you know, all of those, uh, things that I consider and are important for a healthy lifestyle, breast management exercise, obviously. And so that was, I think, the attrition piece of the segment that you got there.

Brad (00:06:29):
Yeah, it’s, it’s really well done. That’s how I found you is someone sent me a link to one of your articles and, really thoughtful, very well presented with a big picture perspective. So I’m, I’m anticipating this show too is not gonna be a high scientific, wandering down these rabbit holes that people don’t have time. It’s really, really sensible and . Um, you know, I learned a lot or I, I learned a great way to frame some of this stuff. So, um, take us back to your athletic youth though in Austria, because I think that’s really framed your career in health and fitness too.

Mike (00:07:03):
Yeah, it has. I mean, I was actually in technology for most of my professional life, and even at the time when I was a sprinter, technology was, uh, a passion of mine. And that led into, you know, my first couple of jobs up until, um, of April of this year, actually when I quit my apin technology. It’s been technology, um, all along, but also fitness. And, you know, when, when I was, when I was a, a teenager, I guess, you know, as part of our school curriculum, you know, our, uh, PE teacher was very, was, he was actually a gymnast in his youth. And so he was very much encouraging us to, you know, seek out certain sports and, you know, do stuff outside of school, obviously. And, um, at some point we stumbled across, uh, track and field and I, I mean, I can tell you I had zero talent whatsoever.

Mike (00:07:51):
I couldn’t even run a straight line. And I remember the first like tryout session that I had with my then coach who later became my coach, my 100 meter coach. He was trained with the Russians, you know, he was hardcore. He didn’t care about, you know, your, your feelings and you know, how you felt that day if you felt like pushing it or not for him, you know, it was like 120% or you stay home, you know. It’s as easy as that. And I remember the first couple of sessions, he wouldn’t even talk to us. He wouldn’t critique anything. He would just, you know, let us do our thing and, and hope that we won’t come back. I think that was really that was, you know, the impression that, that I’ve gotten. And, you know, thinking back, I think that probably was spot on.

Mike (00:08:37):
But for some reason we stuck it out. And that was really the start of, uh, I think of my mental transformation in terms of understanding that where I think my physical limitations are isn’t really where they truly are. The mind is significantly more powerful in many cases than the body, and it’s often holding us back from the things that we have, you know, wanna accomplish. And, so that was one thing that will always, that will never forget. And then the second part was we were pushing it so hard and also combined, at that time I had zero appreciation for nutrition, for the importance of sleep, None of that. It was only the exercise component that I was focusing on, and that, you know, the people around me knew about, nobody knew about nutrition or anything else.

Mike (00:09:31):
And so, I guess maybe part of my less than ideal nutrition led me to throw up three times a week, um, during and after workout session. And I remember one day, it was winter in Austria, it was, the track was covered in snow only. There was only one strip, you know, for us, um, where we could run. And I was, I was throwing up in the corner, then I was turning around, I was on my back and the coach came up to me and said, You know, you can just stay there, you know, unless you’re a winner. Basically what was, I don’t remember the exact words, but I’m like, you know, you can either stay there or you can get back up and continue the workout. And, and I’m like, I’m throwing up, you know, I’m done, I’m done. I can’t do it anymore.

Mike (00:10:14):
But then at some point I realized, well, maybe if he thinks I can do it, maybe I can. And I continued to work out. And from that point forward, that was really for me, the, the indication that just because I think I cannot do something doesn’t really mean that I can’t, Chances are I can if I just push through the pain and put in the effort. And that has changed really the rest of my life because I’ve always been since then pushing it, maybe in many cases way too much. And I didn’t appreciate then the importance for recovery for many, many years. So I was kind of on the, on the other extreme of where mm-hmm. many people are. Um, but still, it has helped me tremendously in everything that I’ve done since then to just push through the pain and, you know, suck it up, get back up and just, you know, get the job done instead of lying around and moping, ,

Brad (00:11:05):
For the young American listeners who have no idea what you’re talking about. That’s, that’s completely vanished. Those types of dynamics and those hard-ass coaches and those, you know, coming to, uh, coming to your, um, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re reckoning, uh, in those extremely difficult circumstances. Maybe we should, you know, hit this subject for a little bit because, uh, I’ve obviously been through that athletic experience and, you know, asked myself, uh, what more, you know, what more was in there and found that there was more in the tank and I was able to come through and pass the guy and win the race. But I know also that, um, this powerful weapon that we have, the mind over body can get outta hand. And I, it feels like if you call upon it too frequently, day after day after day, but that one turning point in your life is really important to, to recognize that if you were puking on the side of the track in Georgia where you live now, they would’ve called 9 1 1 and they would’ve said, Oh, Mike, are you okay? We’re gonna give you a IV now, sweetie, and here’s a blanket. That’s, that’s what would happen today. And so we’re missing some of that edge. But again, as I, as I learned over the years, and as you describe, um, you can easily lead to becoming your worst enemy because you’re such a badass. Yeah,

Mike (00:12:20):
Yeah, no, that’s absolutely right. Um, I think everyone should make that experience so they can use that as a tool when it’s appropriate. You know, obviously continue. If, if you always push it and you never allow your body or your mind to recover or you never accept that, you know, emotions are an important part of your mental, you know, wellness as well, and you never connect with others. Like, you know, in, in that particular case, the coach didn’t connect with me on a, on an emotional level, but I think it would’ve been the wrong time to do that, you know, whereas, whereas in other cases, be it, you know, parenting your kids or what have you, obviously it’s important to connect, you know, before you can maybe correct or, you know, introduce a change in behavior. But I, I would argue that everyone needs to make the experience to push what they think are their limits, so they a understand that those limits are self, you know, you set your own limits basically, in many cases.

Mike (00:13:18):
I mean, if you say, you know, I wanna fly, well, you know, that’s probably not gonna fly. Right? Uh, but in many other cases, I wanna, you know, run a marathon, I wanna do this and that. I wanna, you know, excel, you know, as a parent in my child, it doesn’t matter what it is. Chances are you can do it if you get out of your comfort zone if you experience discomfort. I think being comfortable all the time makes us weak. Um, that doesn’t mean we have to be uncomfortable all the time, but we should be able to go there and be okay, Right. Without freaking out and without being in a completely sympathetic response, you know, anytime something, you know, bad happens to us.

Brad (00:13:55):
So do you feel like that training, that experience that you, you found through athletics has carried over into your career path and other areas when you’re launching a new product and have potential to be anxious, fearful, and off your game, but instead you, you know, that you can, you can apply those same tools of focusing and resilience?

Mike (00:14:18):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, it has helped me in every, in every corner of my life, um, since then. And now, of course, you know, the older I got, the more I learned and appreciated also that, okay, this is not the only way of doing things. And I’ve, in the, maybe even in the last two or three years, thanks to my wife who, who’s done a lot of work in that area, especially in regards to parenting, you know, where the brute force attack, or the brute force, uh, way of, of doing things, you know, you suck it up or, you know, where, where the connection, where the, you know, the emotional component comes in the equation. You know, she’s done a lot of work in that area and I’ve learned a lot from her and, you know, watching her, how she does things.

Mike (00:14:57):
And I’ve started applying those in my everyday life. So now I, I think I know much better when to force it and when to back off and maybe go a different route, you know? And I think that, and it goes back the same with, you know, metabolic flexibility. You should be able to run on sugar and you should be able to run on fat, right? So it’s always, you know, there are, there are usually two sides to the equation, and you wanna be able to tap into both depending on what suits the situation best.

Brad (00:15:22):
Do you feel like there’s some areas where you bump up against the cultural trends here in America and we’ve, we’ve been told, this is the age of the helicopter parent, or excuse me, the helicopter parent. It’s now turned into the lawnmower parent cuz the helicopter parent’s flying over, the kid trying to orchestrate everything, the lawnmowers in front mowing the path down the grass. And, um, you know, maybe you have that reference point from growing up in Europe, which is different and also growing up in a previous generation, which is different. Right?

Mike (00:15:52):
Right. No, absolutely. I think everything I do is, is is counter, you know, mainstream , be it nutrition, be it, not really. It is, you know, I think overall as a society, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve gotten so far away from how humans are supposed to live, um, not only nutrition-wise, but also, you know, sun exposure. You know, if you follow popular advice you should put on sunscreen first thing in the morning before you even leave the house because the sun is bad for you. Right. Especially

Brad (00:16:22):
Your kid.

Mike (00:16:24):
Yeah, exactly. Especially your kid, you know, you know, having the a all the time in a being like in a, in a, in a, in a very comfortable kind of environment all the time, as soon as there is certain discomfort, oh, we need to, we need to do something. You know, So what we are doing is kind of the exact opposite. You know, we are trying to be uncomfortable, you know, we are doing, you know, the Copeland during the sauna, bathing, the, you know, CrossFit type of workouts, heavy lifting. We eat predominantly meat. You know, all of those things are exactly the opposite of what, you know, mainstream tells us is good for us. And I would argue, if you look back, you know, especially the last maybe a hundred, 200 years and the trajectory in terms of, you know, just overall health metabolic diseases, you know, be it mental issues, be it physical issues, we are going in a trajectory that’s not good.

Mike (00:17:12):
And so how come that everything, you know, people tell us we should be doing that is, you know, the the right thing to do, the healthy thing to do leads us exactly down that path where we don’t wanna be, you know? So I feel like with everything we do, it’s an uphill battle to do the exact opposite to, you know, do it for ourselves, You know, it’s one thing, but then also maybe try to convince or educate friends and family and, you know, the closest people around you, not even talking about in a general population, because that’s even more difficult. But yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s , it’s rough. Yeah. It’s challenging, it’s interesting and it’s fun. But yeah,

Brad (00:17:46):
It’s a battle. I wonder how that goes for you, for example, if you’re having a gathering with the neighbors and someone introduces you and they say, Oh, this guy’s into health and fitness things. Do you like pick your spots where you, you you see that openness or you, do you like to get into it with people that, you know, will challenge this ridiculousness of eating organs cuz they’re so high in fat and cholesterol? I mean, how does that go in, in real life for you?

Mike (00:18:14):
I typically try to, I, I typically try not to involve myself into those discussions. Um,

Brad (00:18:22):
He’s just sitting in the corner with his no excuses shirt on and Exactly, yeah.

Mike (00:18:27):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I, I put information out there and I’m like, okay, if, if you wanna learn from me, if you come to me and ask me a question, if you’re, you know, sincerely interested in what I have to say or if you have questions about you know, what to do, what not to do, you know, I’m the first guy who, you know, makes time and walks you through everything that I know and, you know, tell you about all the mistakes that I’ve made and why I don’t do certain things anymore and why I do other things, et cetera. But I try not to be that guy, you know, if I hear like, you know, two people, you know, talking about how great ca is and you know, that that smoothie they have every morning and stuff, I’m like, you know, I, I have to go because I’m getting an angle stroke? Inside.

Mike (00:19:03):
You know, I don’t wanna, you know, um, you know, be part of the discussion because everyone has to come to, you know, certain realizations I think on their own pace. If you try to push something to people who are not ready mm-hmm. , it’s not gonna go well, you know, but if people come to you and ask, Hey, you know, I’ve heard that I’ve seen the Liver King, you know, you know, So do you eat organs too? Or what about your organ supplements? You know, so then I know, okay, there is an opening, people are asking me, I share what I know, you know, but I, I try not to push stuff onto people, even though can I kind of do with my blog and all mm-hmm. , but it’s free for everyone to read or not, you know, at least

Brad (00:19:40):
. Yeah. I’m, I’m, I I think that’s really well said. And I’m, I’m striving to, um, align with that myself, but it does feel, um, like a battle going through life sometimes because maybe there is a loud voice across the room, touting the, the kale smoothies and perhaps like a physician dispensing, uh, diet and nutrition advice when they have no training or no necessary necessarily expertise. And sometimes I feel like it’s time to recoil and, you know, get a little, a little spicy and, and, you know, find that wedge rather than look for the doors that are open to crack you crack ’em open yourself. Right. But again, sometimes that doesn’t, doesn’t go well. But, um, you know, we both appreciate guys like Liver King and Saladino, and I notice that they’re both, uh, yelling on most of their posts now rather than talking conversationally even though they’re both super bright. And it’s like, for a while I’m like, What is this? This is, I know Paul, I know Brian, they’re extremely smart and they can sit down and go over the things, but it’s like if people are gonna land and watch, because Paul’s roaming through a store with a secret camera telling Whole Foods hot bar Bullshit. I freaking love it. And I’m inspired by that. So, almost

Mike (00:20:58):
It, Yeah. No, no, absolutely. I think I think it, and there’s obviously a reason why they’re doing this. There are also some I I’ve that are turned off by the aggressiveness. Um, and I get that too. I mean, you can’t, you know, make it right for everybody. Uh, but, you know, I, I like that they are putting themselves out and, you know, and being controversial on purpose and maybe even more so than what they really are in person, because I’ve met Paul too in Costa Rica, and he’s a pretty laid back and reasonable guy, you know? Yeah. So, you know, I know he has his opinions on, on, on certain things, but I also know that he has, you know, changed some of his diet over the past few years, you know, from a pure carnivore to now, you know, fruits and honey and even dairy, you know, um, certain types of dairy, raw dairy and, and, and, and cultured dairy at least.

Mike (00:21:43):
But know, I think that’s a good idea. And, and you know, if I was in a room and I see a doctor, you know, telling someone they need to go on statins because they’re, you know, high cholesterol, you know, I would, I would say that’s BS. You know, and I would speak up, but if it’s, you know, a conversation between two friends and, you know, who don’t know, you know, who are not an authority in the topic, or someone you know that you are supposed to be able to trust, then I’ll typically let that be. I don’t involve myself, but if it’s obviously a doctor or someone who people look up to who people trust, you know mm-hmm. , then I, I would say something and I’ve found it even, you know, with doctors, with our, you know, kids pediatrician and all, I don’t like what they have to say. I tell that they’re of, you know, um, and I don’t mean words because, you know, that’s, that’s dangerous advice, you know, telling, you know, kids they have to, you know, eat their, you know, cereals in the morning or what have you. Yeah. You know, that’s just,

Brad (00:22:38):
Yeah, that’s, I mean, it’s speaking of aggressive, there’s one thing to be, uh, shouting enthusiastically on a post, but like, I just went to my friendly, soft spoken family physician for a checkup and she said, Well, your good cholesterols this and your bad cholesterols this. And I said, We don’t, we don’t, we don’t talk that way anymore. We don’t call it that. You know, it went right over her head. She didn’t ask a follow up question, but at least I mouthed off a little bit. And maybe, Yeah. You know, you make a good point. Like maybe six months from now they, they overheard you talking at the gathering that a kale smoothie might not be the winning move, and then it’s gonna hit them from another angle and another angle. Right. So just kind of bleeding out. Yeah, I like it.

New Speaker (00:23:19):
Before we get into the evolution of your diet, and you mentioned how, how Paul’s opened to add more carbs and things. Um, something doesn’t make sense here, Mike, here it is. You said you had zero talent and then you developed into an elite international junior sprinter. So how does that work? Cuz especially with sprinting, it seems to me that it’s highly dependent on, you know, that natural talent. When I went to high school, the guys came to first day of track practice and they’re smoking up the track, and it’s like, boy, that, you know, that was, that was all they needed.

Mike (00:23:55):
Yeah. And, and I did not do that. You know, I sucked for, for many years, really. And I don’t, I’m not saying that I have zero athletic talent whatsoever. I think I do have some, and I have to discussion all the time with my friend, like, you know, you’re, you’re different. You know, you’re different. I’m like, I don’t think I’m different. And I just take certain lifestyle things more seriously than most other people, and that’s why I’m, I’m better. But I also noticed at the time when I was, and I remember this distinctively at the European, um, um, the European Championships in, in Italy. I came in number five. The same actually, the guy next to me, the French dude, he was, we were both, you know, same time, but my chest apparently was like, you know, a fraction of an inch first, you know, over the finish line. And so I came in number five, he came in number six, um, and a few years later, he should not be the finale at the Olympics,

Brad (00:24:54):
You know, Lare, was it Christoff Lare? He’s

Mike (00:24:59):
Probably, I think that’s what his name, He, he was his 200 meter guy. Yeah. Yeah. I think he,

Brad (00:25:04):
Christophe Lemaire is his name. Yeah.

Mike (00:25:07):
I think that was his name. Yeah. And I’m like, you know, that’s talent. I don’t have, you know, I would’ve never been able to do that. I would’ve been injured so much, and maybe his nutrition was better at the time. Maybe, you know, he had more, you know, doesn’t matter. But I don’t think I, I was at that level, you know, I was, for many years I was, you know, even in, within Salzburg, my hometown and within Austria for sure, for sure. I was like, you know, number something, you know, And, and I think it was just me sticking it out and working harder. Anyone else who potentially had more talent to win at the end of the day? At least you knowing competitions and, and some international ones. But, and, you know, body, my best friend at the time, he had significantly more talent.

Mike (00:25:54):
He was a [inaudible] before he was better built. He was less injured. He was just a more talented athlete. But I was mentally, and he beat me during, you know, training most of the time, but came competition time. I won almost every race because I was mentally strong enough, because I was physically better than him. And so I, I always keep that, you know, in my mind that, okay, you know, I, I know that I have a certain talent, of course. I mean, there are some people who might never reach my level regardless of what I do, but I also know, regardless of what I do, I will never reach, you know, certain other levels. So I’m kind of, you know, in there, but nothing, I, I, I don’t, I don’t think I’m incredibly talented and, and nothing at what I do in reality. You know,

Brad (00:26:37):
, that’s, that’s I think a healthy, uh, perspective. And I think you learn that really, uh, powerfully through sports, because I saw guys that were more talented than me in different ways. And I knew that, um, it was a whole nother game. And there’s always someone faster. There’s always someone up the road. And if you can just make the best of your skill set and, you know, leverage those strengths that you talk about. But it’s kind of funny. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s a pretty modest way of looking at it to say that, you know, you were just at, you know, ho hum when you’re going up to a super high level. And then racing against guys like Christophe Lemaire who’s, I believe the fastest Caucasian in the history of the planet as, one of the in the hundred meters. He’s, um, under 10 seconds. There’s not too many. So he’s got a claim to fame there.

Mike (00:27:29):
Yeah. I’ve not followed track and three in while, so I don’t even know where he is at or where he was in the last couple of years. There.

Brad (00:27:35):
Some guy’s, some guy you kick butt on in the juniors, and then he rose to, Yeah, Olympic finalist, longtime elite level sprinter. So you, um, you wound up your athletic career at some point. Did you come over here for college to run, or how did it, how did it wind up and what did you go off to next?

Mike (00:27:51):
You know, funny enough, I actually got an invitation, I think, from the University of Oregon or something when I was back home in Austria to come and race for them. And I said, You know, what’s the point? I don’t wanna go to the us. And, and, you know, looking back, and I’m glad I didn’t do it, because otherwise I might not be here right now talking to you if my life is, you know, taking a different turn. But for a couple of years, I’m like, I wish I would’ve taken that opportunity, you know, and really get into a more, you know, professional type of environment with better support than all. Um, but no, I, I came here for, um, for work, actually, at some point I realized in Austria that you cannot make money as a track and field athlete. You either are in a soccer player or a skier. That’s pretty much it. So I decided I’m gonna focus on, on my career in it, and that led me to a company in Switzerland, who I worked for a year. And then they asked me if you wanna come to the US to help expand the res operations. And that’s what I did, Uh, in 2007 it was. And I’ve been in it ever since until, as I said, initially, uh, April of this year, where I finally put my data up to focus only on my logging and, and supplements.

Brad (00:29:03):
So, Geez, how did that go? You had a, you had a full-time job, you’re raising a family, and meanwhile in your, in your hobby time, you were cranking out this very popular blog and it was building, and then you saw some potential or what happened there?

Mike (00:29:19):
It, it was, yeah, it was really, you know, I started in 2012 with photography blogs or articles and some technology, and basically just sharing what I learned in the, my current passion that I have, you know, and photography was for a long time a passion of mine. Still is. , But not as to the extent anymore. And, um, you know, it, it started growing. I started learning, you know, how to be found on Google, because just because you write something and put it out doesn’t mean anyone you know, will find it. So over time, I learned, you know, how, how, you know, search engines work and you know, what I had to take into consideration. I started, you know, just producing content and content, and I had done suddenly certain articles that were, that had a lot of visitors. Um, there are actually some from back in the days that still, that still produce a lot of traffic.

Mike (00:30:07):
And so over time, you know, a traffic group grew. And at some point I realized, well, you know, maybe I can someone monetize that, maybe display ads or, I don’t know, something, you know, might work, maybe affiliate links. And so I started playing with all of those different tools to monetize the blog.

Brad (00:30:22):
This is all in your spare time, though?

Mike (00:30:24):
Yeah. Yeah. That was all in my spare time. So usually mornings, you know. I like to get up early. Um, I usually got up at five, you know, blogged until eight, and then, you know, started my day job and, and that grew and grew and yeah, the revenue grew and grew, especially from affiliate sources. Um, and, and the display ads. And at some point I’m like, Wow, you know, this is, you know, think I was 35 at a time. I told my wife that, mark my works, but then when I turned 40, I’m gonna do this full time.

Mike (00:30:54):
And it was more like a pipe dream, You know, I, I made like a couple of thousands dollars and, but I could see, you know, okay, if I can make, you know, a couple of thousand dollars with, you know, what I do now, if I really do this more seriously and produce more content, better content, maybe that’ll, you know, escape. And, and it did. And so I reached like the point where, you know, I could cover half of my, my income, and then at some point I covered my entire income. And then actually before I quit, I had, I think my, my blogging income was three x my day job. And I had a fairly well paying, you know, job in sales, um, as a, a VP of sales and marketing. And so I’m like, okay, you know, I’ve reached that point now where at least financially my day job is the hobby , and, and my blogging is the main thing.

Mike (00:31:42):
Even though I don’t spend the entire day blogging, you know, I spend it on my day job. And so I said, You know, what the risk is relatively low, and this is really my passion, and I’m gonna cut the cord. And, and yeah, I’ve done it in April and it’s been, it’s been going really well. And then along the line, you know, I said, You know what, maybe a wife actually said you should have a physical product. You know, so it’s not only digital, it’s not only you don’t only rely on Google and their algorithm changes and updates and all mm-hmm. , you know, you need something, you know, that can maybe carry you in case, you know, Google does something and suddenly, you know, nobody finds your stuff anymore, you know? Mm-hmm. , and that was a, you know, care concern. And so we decided, okay, what is it that we could do?

Mike (00:32:25):
What, what is a product that I could see myself using my using as well as selling for, you know, years or even decades? And, you know, we talked through different supplements. I’m like, Well, it’s really organ meats, because I believe those are the foundation, at least from an attrition, micro attrition perspective of what we should be, what we should be eating. And so an organ meat supplement, I think is the perfect, um, the perfect product for us because we, we’ve been using it, we’ve been buying from Ancestral and Heart and Soil, you know, and those brands, great products, and like, let’s, let’s do that. But let’s, you know, try to do things a little bit different, maybe, you know, add, add some value to something a little bit different that, you know, differentiates us, obviously from, from the competition, from our friendly competition and not really competition. Mm-hmm. , I think we’re all in the same mm-hmm. , and yeah. And that’s what I started a year ago, and it’s been, it’s been fun.

Brad (00:33:17):
Yeah. I studied economics. That was my major at UC Santa Barbara, and I, I remember some things from a long time ago, and one of ’em was this economic theory of abundance where, um, Heart and Soil, Ancestral Supplements and your brand, what’s the name of your brand? MK?

Mike (00:33:32):
MK supplements. Yeah.

Brad (00:33:33):
Mm-hmm. . So you’re all selling a similar product, but, the rising tide floats all both because the more attention that’s paid to this interesting relatively new market category is wonderful because, uh, sales grow for everyone. And furthermore, the real competition is the nasty shit that’s been, we’ve been pedaling to, um, the mainstream, uh, including, you know, synthetic cheap vitamins that you find at the big box store for 12.95. And, um, not only probably aren’t helpful, but they’re probably destructive to your health in certain ways. So, this is all super exciting and, um, we’re, you know, we’re, we’re fighting the battle together. Um, but I guess maybe we should go back a little to, you were a young guy, you came over here, you’re an IT worker, um, and ex-athlete, I assume you were still doing things to keep in shape and keep healthy, but that first newsletter I get when I sign up at, uh, Michael Kummer.com, um, a beautiful presentation of the journey that you followed. And it sounds like one of the turning points was that epic documentary Supersize Me with Morgan Spurlock when he ate at McDonald’s every day for a month. So what happened there?

Mike (00:34:43):
The thread? Yeah. Actually, I fully adopted the American way of life, including the standard American diet. Unfortunately, I’d always Coke and Red Bull and, uh, in my fridge, and I remember, you know, going to Walmart buying, you know, the, I think it was like a red pizza that we had almost, not, not every day, but several times a week. And, you know, at some point, you know, I looked in the mirror, I’m like, Okay, something has changed, you know, in the last couple of years, and I, I’m not liking it. And, and then coincidentally, I, I met my wife and she was diagnosed with prediabetes. Her blood sugar was significantly higher than it should have been. And so we stumbled across this documentary and, and watched it. I’m like, This is how much added sugar we all eat every single year. This is ridiculous.

Mike (00:35:29):
So what we need to do is go through our pantry and toss out every single product that has added sugars. And our pantry was pretty much empty at the end, end of that exercise, . And, and, and then, you know, unfortunately, since we didn’t know any better, you know, we started choosing because we saw another documentary about choosing, you know, and we, we, I still have a picture where we came home from the grocery store with all of those greens and carrots and, you know, some fruits too. And we started choosing for it for a little bit and then realized as a, you know, it’s, it’s a pain in the, but cleaning the truer, you know, every time. And they don’t taste that great either, so let’s, let’s not do this. And then it, it took a couple of more years until a, a brand of ours who was on a paleo diet at a time, but maybe it still is, you know, mention something about, well, we noticed he was eating differently, you know, and he never told us, you know, Hey, this is what I do.

Mike (00:36:23):
This is what you should be doing, or this is why I’m doing it. But we noticed that he was eating differently, and then I’m like, weirder, but you know, whatever, do what you wanna do. And, and so, but we started working out together, like CrossFit type of exercise. And I, you know, started asking him, you know, So can you eat this? Can you eat that? What about corn? And he’s like, No, And I remember this. I will never forget that. He’s like, No, corn is the cryptonite of paleo. I’m like, Okay, not sure why, but I take a word for it. And I started doing research then, and, and I realized that holy moly, what we’ve been eating is absolutely awful for us. We need to do paleo. And we were on a, on a family vacation. My mom and her husband were over in DC during winter.

Mike (00:37:05):
It was like that, that winter storm year in, in dc. And I told my wife, I said, We are doing paleo. Oh, no. I said, I’m gonna do paleo starting tomorrow. And he’s like, What do you mean you are doing paleo? I am the one cooking. So if you are doing paleo, that means I need to do something differently, an extra, So, and you didn’t even ask me, so you are on your own, You know, I’m not gonna cook for, you know, two different meals just because you wanna do paleo now. And so she was really upset about that, but then also started doing research and, you know, asking questions and came to the conclusion that, Yeah, I think we need to do paleo. And so we started on a paleo journey, and for us, in the beginning, paleo really meant piece of steak and some grilled zucchini that was paleo for us, you know?

Mike (00:37:51):
And, and what I, one of the things I noticed, like within a week, I always had, um, irritable bowel syndrome. My dad had, it still has it, is that direction of colon cancer, um, at the age of 48, I believe. So relatively early. And, and, and I always thought my, my gut issues were completely normal, you know, that’s just, you know, maybe genetics, maybe it’s, you know what it is. I came to accept them as, as, as a norm. And a week into pale, suddenly all of that was gone. I’m like, Holy moly, this is how you’re supposed to feel. This is how, you know, feeling good, what it, what it means to feel good. And I’m like, Wow. And this was all what we’ve been eating, you know, so I’m healed. Awesome. And the more we got into that whole paleo, the more we discovered that, hey, you can make every meal paleo, you know, you can use almond flour, you can usetapioca starch to bake cakes. You know, you can use whatever to make pretty much anything paleo and

Brad (00:38:47):
More potato chips. Yeah, yeah.

Mike (00:38:52):
Everything is paleo. If you want to , you can, you know, you can just drink maple syrup all day. You’re in a paleo diet, you know, I mean, not in the original sense of the diet mimicking how our ancestors would’ve eaten or ate at the time, but just from a modern paleo perspective, you know, you, you could do anything. And it was kind of paleo. But the more we kept doing that, the more my gut issues returned because we were introducing nuts and seeds and vegetables, you know, and all of those things that we had cut out in initially. And, and then I assembled across keto. I’m like, Ooh, you know, this is really the, this is really what we should be doing. You know, sugar is bad, carbohydrates are bad. We need to be on keto. And I went back to my wife and said, , we have to do keto.

Mike (00:39:37):
And you’re like, You gotta be kidding, right? We just, you know, started this paleo thing, and now we wanna do keto. That means I cannot eat, you know, all of the paleo desserts and all the stuff that we’ve been making, we can’t have to anymore. Like, nope, cannot, cannot do that. No carbs. And so she didn’t wanna do it. I started keto. And with keto, with modern keto in particular, you know, there is a lot of nuts and nut butters and a lot of things that are irritating to us that, you know, humans shouldn’t really be eating, at least not in the amounts that most keto diet such as, Yeah.

Brad (00:40:12):
What about raw produce into the smoothie, which was my game for a little bit. And this is massive concentration of toxins in their, in their most offensive form. Yeah, that’s right. But all keto thumbs up keto.

Mike (00:40:25):
Yeah, exactly. That’s, and you know, using cheap oils and, you know, eating, I mean, nothing against bacon, but unfortunately, you know, most pigs are raised with corn and, and sewing their feet. So they’re, you know, line leg acid content. Their omega threes or omega six s are relatively high. And so if you only eat bacon, you know, canola oil and, and, and keto muffins all day, you know, yes, you’re on keto, you’re not eating any carbs, but you’re probably not doing anything good to your health. And that’s kind of, sort of what I did. And so my gut, you know, issues got even worse. And I’m like, Okay, something I thought keto would, you know, help me improve my health and how I feel. But it actually went a different way. But I stuck it out for three years. I was in a very low carb diet, and then at some point realized that maybe, okay, then I saw, you know, saldino kind of, you know, shifting a little bit more towards carbs.

Mike (00:41:16):
And I, you know, started to realize that maybe not all carbs are bad, and there is a time for carbs. There is a time for, you know, fat you know, metabolic flexibility being the keyword here that you should be able to, you know, work on with either efficiently. And, and I, and I started realizing that most of the things that we did on keto weren’t good for us. Most of the things we did on the, our late paleo stages weren’t good for us, but really going back to a more animal based approach where meat is at the center of meat and fat and organs, you know, at the center of your diet. And then, yes, you can have carp, you know, but ideally not from nuts and seeds and grains and all of those things, but from, you know, seasonal sweet fruits, um, raw honey.

Mike (00:42:01):
I mean, we have peas in our backyard, ORs in our backyard, so we make our own honey, you know, so we eat that. Um, and, and yeah, and since then, stomach issues gone again. Um, I, I’m heal again, you know, as soon as I, or as long as I don’t start consuming foods that will irritate my cup again. And that, that’s been kind of the journey. Now, the entire family is an animal based diet because it provides enough flexibility. If I wanna do a low carp, no carp day, no problem. I trusted meat and fat and, and I’m good. And if they want to have more carbs than I, you know, have honey, I have fruits, I have, you know, what have you. And it’s a lot of flexibility that works for my wife, the kids, and for me.

Brad (00:42:42):
So when you were going through those years, especially the three years of, of keto, what was your fitness regimen like?

Mike (00:42:51):
CrossFit, It’s been CrossFit for the past few years, and I performed really well on, on low carb, you know, and, and, and I would, you know, I argued with many that you, you don’t need carbs to, to perform well, and while that is true to an extent, it would maybe not be true for someone who is a professional cross speed athlete mm-hmm. and works out, you know, three times a day. You, you, you don’t wanna rely on your body’s ability to make glucose from non carbohydrate sources, because that usually takes longer than, you know, the little time you have in between workouts. So you need to fuel yourself with glucose if you wanna to perform well, you know, throughout the day, physically. But just as, as far as my regimen was concerned, I typically workout in a fast state in the morning, um, you know, running on, on ketones, I was performing incredibly well. If I had to do the same workout again in the afternoon, maybe different story, but for that one workout, you know, I had enough, you know, glyco in my liver and muscle tissue to fuel the workout.

Brad (00:43:49):
Mm-hmm. . Yeah, this is a really important point. I hope listeners will push the backward button and, and listen again, because, um, and, and listeners know that I’ve been reflecting on these ideas really strongly recently, especially motivated by j Feldman Energy Balance podcast, where, um, you were able to perform, you did well, you’re on the keto diet, you you’re throwing up big numbers at the gym and all that. Uh, but it’s possibly, um, more complex and more stressful to the body to kick into these mechanisms like ke burning and, uh, liberating fuel from storage versus, uh, refueling optimally and kind of lowering the overall stress impact of the various things such as carb restriction combined with high intensity exercise.

Mike (00:44:38):
Yeah, I mean, and, and I also think that everyone is probably a little bit different. You know, maybe someone who is more, um, geared towards being a car burner versus a fat burner. You know, there are some who argue that, well, recovery, um, post work recovery is actually better, and muscle protein synthesis is better if you only consume carbs and fat at a roughly one to one ratio after a workout and don’t have carbs, um, right away. Um, and ative stress might be lower, but then, you know, the entire recovery in the long run might be negatively impacted. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s very complex and I don’t think one regimen works for everyone in the same manner. You really have to test it out a little bit, see what works best for you, you know, does it work best for you if you, if you fuel yourself before working out, is it better to work out an aas and then fuel? Should you fuel with glucose? Should you, or with cart you fuel with fat and protein? I do really well working out in a facet state and then fueling with protein and fat and then later in the day have some carbs, uh, just so that, you know, my glycogen stores get properly replenished. I can work out again the next day.

Brad (00:45:47):
Yeah, I think Ben Greenfield talks about that a lot, where he feels like he’s banking a lot of hours in a fasted or ketogenic state and kicking into those, uh, repair mechanisms and all the, uh, the things that we celebrate about how the body works better when it’s fasted or in ketogenic. Right? And then in the evening time, he has the, uh, wonderful family, uh, kitchen operation going. His kids have a cookbook even. And so he, he will report consuming a lot of carbs, uh, at a certain time of day, ensuring that the next day he’s, he’s fully refueled. And I think those big picture insights are, are pretty important. But, you know, one of my big picture insights is I’m trying to do, um, ambitious workout at age 57. So I’m not an elite performer going for the CrossFit games, but even trying to dabble in something that could be considered a, a young man’s endeavor, I’m already, uh, stacking a lot of stress factors there.

Brad (00:46:43):
And so I wanna make it as easy and efficient as possible to perform and recover. And furthermore, I think you might, um, chip in here too. Like, my blood work looks fine, looks great, my body composition is fine. So I don’t really see any justification to engage in the practice of fasting for me personally. And, um, that, you know, that’s an example of individuality. Even though I’m not hungry, I feel fine doing a fasted workout. You know, all those things are true. And I was keto for a while and, um, you know, restricting carbon take for a long time. Um, but I think if we just back up a little, um, the difference between processed carbohydrates and the easy to digest nutrient dense carbohydrates that you mentioned, and we’ll talk further, that’s a big one too, cuz when we talk about the word carbs, I’m low carb now and I feel better. Well, it’s like, yeah, if you got rid of the bagels and the muffins and the paleo , the paleo crackers, that’s a big difference from toning down your fruit intake in the name of health, right?

Mike (00:47:46):
. Right. No, that’s absolutely right. And, and I think just from an evolutionary perspective, you know, I think humans never had a set routine where, you know, eating at a certain time of the day, exercising meaning, you know, hunting or defending, you know, themselves, you know, against the sabert tooth tiger or whatever. At a certain time, I think you wanna mix it up. You wanna keep your buddy guessing, you know, fast sometimes, sometimes don’t, you know, and, and one thing that’s particularly important I believe is that exercise, fasting and changing your diet can be stressors or are likely stressors to your body if you already stressed out, if you maybe didn’t sleep well, you know, and you get up in the morning and you feel already stressed and anxious because of what’s ahead of you, maybe that day is not a good day to do too fast.

Mike (00:48:36):
You know, maybe that day is not a good day to push it at the gym, you know, maybe that day, you know, you just wanna fuel yourself and take it easy because even if workout and fasting are positive stressors, if your glass is already full, you know it’s gonna spill over. And that’s not a good thing regardless of, of, of you know what you do. So you really need to, you know, be a little bit in tune with your body and figure out what is it that you need. Now of course, you know, if you are, you’ve been a standard American diet for most of your life and your body tells you I need, you know, pr you know, then that’s, you probably don’t wanna follow that, you know. But once you are at a certain stage where you know, you eat well, you sleep well, you exercise well, you can be very in tune with your body and listen to what it needs.

Mike (00:49:22):
And if you need carbs on a certain day, you know, eat your carbs. I mean, it’s a very good example. I can’t relate because I, I don’t, you know, have a, a menstrual cycle, but my wife can tell you that, you know, as your period approaches, you know, she has a different eating pattern and that’s, you know, obviously from an evolutionary perspective, the female body gets prepared, you know, for child or to, you know, to grow a child it needs more calories during that time. Now, obviously, if you are not planning on getting pregnant, you know, that’s false alarm, so to say, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that you cannot support, you know, what the body needs at that time. And then just back up a little bit once, you know, once that is over, you know, you really have to be or should be in tune and don’t try to fight, you know, what your, your body needs at a certain time.

Mike (00:50:08):
And also, you know, one quick note about the fasting. I think there is a, a longevity component that is not easily measured on a short term in terms of you auto, you know, getting your cells or getting your body to kick into that cell recycled program to clean up damaged proteins and all of those things that happen when you don’t eat for, you know, 16, 24, whatever hours, You know, there are, I guess, certain rates of auto mm-hmm. that start kicking at some point and then, you know, increase or accelerate the longer you fast. I think every so often it, it’s beneficial too fast. Um, do it opportunistically. I think that’s the best of, best approach. Instead of planning. Like yesterday we went for a hike and we, my wife said, You know what? Let’s not eat breakfast. And we came home at five. It was, you know, 24 hours that we hadn’t eaten.

Mike (00:50:56):
Wow. And it felt perfectly fine because we were out in nature. You know, we had some, we were walking, we had fun. Um, yes, we felt, started feeling hungry at some point, but not to the extent we’re, we are falling apart, you know? And that was a perfect opportunity to integrate a 24-hour fast, um, because it was very low stress. If I had a, a busy day in the office, maybe, you know, I, I, I couldn’t do that, you know, because I, I feel like I need something to, you know, to compensate for my level of anxiety, what have you, you know, you know, maybe that’s not a great way to do that. But if there is an opportunity, you know, integrate some fast, um, every so often, and I think it’ll, it might help you in the long run. You might never find out

Brad (00:51:38):
. I guess that’s the same, uh, if you had a lousy night of sleep, a stressful day at work, or, um, you know, ambitious workout, that might not be the best time to add that further stress of fasting. But at times when you’re, um, you know, on vacation or something, it might be, might be opportunistic. Yeah.

Mike (00:51:59):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Brad (00:52:01):
Um, so you’ve been on this, uh, step by step journey that you, uh, bullet point in the, um, in the email where first you’re eating the, uh, the wonderful it diet of whatever’s coming in, the pizzas from Walmart. And then you took, you know, your, your first, uh, foray onto the fork in the road and, um, you know, progressing to, uh, cutting out the sugar, then paleo, then keto, uh, then carnivore, and then carnivore with some, uh, additional carbohydrates like animal base with fruit, which it seems like, um, there’s a lot of people on this similar journey. Um, yeah. A lot of, you know, highly respected people like Mike Mutzel and, and Rob Wolf and Paul Saladino, and, uh, people stating that, um, they want to kind of extricate from this extreme carb restriction and devotion to fasting to get more fueled overall, um, how convinced are you that you’re kind of at the, at the ultimate level here? Or do you have an open mind that, um, maybe something’s gonna gonna come again and, uh, knock us on our socks and then we’ll have to, uh, recalibrate.

Mike (00:53:12):
I wanna be open, you know, to, to anything that might come down the pike. Um, I, I, you know, don’t see myself becoming a vegan, for example. You know, I

Brad (00:53:20):
Think that’s,

Mike (00:53:22):
Uh, I, I can rule that out, but, you know, I, I always keep thinking of, okay, how would I, how much or how many carbs would’ve would’ve our ancestors had, you know, on a regular basis? Because I talked to different people, you know, said, Well, I had honey quite a bit when he visited Thea in Africa, and I talked to, to Brian from nose to tail, and he said, Well, he, he heard about that, but when he was there with them, they didn’t really have a lot of money. I’m like, there is probably a lot of variability in terms of, you know, what people would eat on a daily basis just based on, you know, the natural resources we have.

Mike (00:54:07):
Uh, fortunately or unfortunately, you know, we, we have everything at our disposal. You know, if I wanna have meat, I have meat. If I wanna have carbs or fruits or what have you, I, I can have that anytime. But that doesn’t necessarily reflect, you know, how humans would’ve eaten for throughout evolution, right? Because, you know, during winter, nothing would grow. So I would argue that maybe during winter, you know, those people were on a ketogenic diet because of necessity, right? If they only had animals to eat, and maybe some, I dunno, old berries or what have you, or some Mazda would scrape off a rock, uh, that probably didn’t kick them out of ketosis, you know? Um, whereas if they maybe lived in a, in an area where there was, you know, some, you know, all year round, then maybe they had more access to carbohydrate.

Mike (00:54:52):
So I think it goes back to listening to your body, because my heritage, my genetic makeup, you know, based on my ancestors might be different to yours. Right? Maybe you are more. And I actually did a couple of, uh, genetic, uh, tests, and according to them, I’m a more efficient car burner than I’m a fat burner, which really bothered me while I was on keto, because I’m like, that can’t be, you know, I’m, I’m a keto, you know, I burn fat. Um, so, you know, I think I’m, I’m still open to, no, I know that I’m still open to kind of, you know, finding out what works best, uh, for me. Um, but I don’t, honestly, I don’t see any significant changes, dietary changes, such as the ones that I’ve gone through in the past, uh, decade. So I don’t, I don’t see myself switching completely over to eating bug or lab meat or, you know, fake meat or plant-based stuff.

Mike (00:55:48):
I don’t see that happening. I think my journey and my trajectory instead of our family is more towards, um, ancestral living. So maybe, you know, I, I see changes maybe in the way we sleep, maybe in the way we live, maybe where we live, you know, what we do on a daily basis, schooling, and we just took our kids out of school to, you know, unschooling or homeschooling. So those are still significant changes, not necessarily related to diet, but to overall, to the overall way we live in terms of making it more, or reflecting better how our ancestors would’ve lived. And to be more in, you know, part of the cycles of nature and part of, you know, all of those things that I believe will keep us healthier than going to strictly modern route

Brad (00:56:34):
of living. Yeah. Yeah. Very well said. Uh, so what precipitated getting your kids outta school? And what do you, uh, envision as a, as an a superior alternative?

Mike (00:56:47):
Um, so, uh, just the fact that, you know, that I don’t think that every kid is interested in the same thing, but in school, obviously, you get taught, the whole class gets taught this, more or less the same thing. I mean, there are some school models that are a little bit different, uh, and more in line of what we envision, but overall, um, we think that, or in particular our, our daughter, she’s very, she comes after me in terms of being very driven, very stubborn, very perfectionist, um, but also easily stressed out. That’s the part that she has from my wife, unfortunately. And so, by trying to be perfect and by, you know, by, by doing everything perfectly, what the teacher tells her, you know, she was, she, we felt like she was more stressed than she should be as a kid, you know, with deadlines and assignments.

Mike (00:57:37):
And if we are week on vacation and suddenly there are 20 of assignments that she has to do at home, I’m like, She’s in first grade. You know, I remember in first grade, I just learned to write, you know, the, the letters of the alphabet. You know, we were, I guess, more plain than anything else in school, but not really, you know, having tests and, you know, and all of those things. That for me, felt like much more advanced. And while she was doing exceptional in school, I don’t think it suited her from a overall, you know, from the perspective of just being a child, you know? Mm-hmm. . And, and the same with, with our, uh, younger one Lucas. Um, he’s significantly more into approaching life with play, you know, and, and exploring stuff with playing. And in school, there was not a whole lot of play.

Mike (00:58:23):
It’s very structured. And I’m like, you know, both my wife and I said, You know, this is not really how we wanna raise our kids. Um, we wanna do it differently. And we also don’t wanna be teachers at home because we don’t have the time. So we decided on a, on a model that’s called unschooling, where it’s very much child driven, um, with support from us. But, you know, if they wanna learn about X, Y, Z, then you know, they can, you know, go out and collect bugs and whatever. I, if they need them to see a video or get a book from the library, we help them, you know, facilitate that to, to learn more. But it’s whatever they’re interested in with some minor exceptions like math, that is something that we, you know, bring to the table because I don’t see them coming to me and say, Hey, how can I, how can I, you know, calculate the square root of whatever.

Mike (00:59:07):
I don’t think that would happen. Maybe much later, but not right now. So we want to give them the math basics, but everything else is pretty much driven by them. And, um, and yeah, that gives us obviously a lot of flexibility with traveling off season and, you know, and just, Oh, and maybe, maybe that’s even more important. I completely forgot about it, but it was really one major component was, was sleep. Because getting to school in the morning meant getting up at a certain time of day, usually six 15. And, and in summer, or, you know, in, in a month where it gets dark later, that means, you know, sending the kids to bed at seven. Like, you know, the sun is still out. Why we have to go to bed at seven? And it doesn’t make any sense at all. You know, not from an evolutionary perspective, from other perspective, but they had to go to, because otherwise they, you know, not be at six in the morning. And so we said, you know, they should sleep until the sun comes up and they can, they should go to bed when it’s dark. And we could only do that by removing them from school , because sleep is for both, for all of us. Super important. We are super protective of our, even for New Year, you know, we are in bed at a regular time instead of, you know, Yeah. Waiting until midnight.

Brad (01:00:21):
Love it. I look forward to partying with you on some New Year’s Eve and knocking off at 10:00 PM That’s my favorite thing to do, especially on New Year’s Eve. That’s funny. I mean, I think, um, we forget that modern school, even today, 2022, the same model, um, was developed back in industrial revolution times to prepare the students for factory work. And so it was organized just like, just like factory, where you’re, you know, I have all these checkpoints and often overwhelmed. So I, I credit you guys for taking that, that big leap, cuz it takes a lot of, takes a lot of courage to do it, but boy, I mean, that’s how careers are headed anyway, right? We’re not gonna be going to work in factories, most of us. So we’re gonna have to learn to be self starting and creative and free thinking and all that sort of thing.

Mike (01:01:12):
E exactly. And, and you know, one of the sticking points, or one of the discussion points we had was, you know, well, what if they wanna go, you know, one, if they wanna have a corporate job, you know, that it requires a degree, and all of those things that lead up to that. And I’m like, I sincerely hope they never have to work, you know, in corporate America, , uh, not, not that I ever did, but because I was always work, I always worked for small companies where I had a lot of flexibility and, you know, do my own schedule and everything. But just visiting, you know, I was in, in, in software sales, and so I visited like all the big companies, you know, and, and see how those people would work during cubicle. And if you are in a higher up, you have this crappy office somewhere.

Mike (01:01:52):
I’m like, I would kill myself, you know, if I had to work here, you know, every single day. And I’m like, sincerely, hope none of our kids make the choice. If they do, they’ll have to figure it out, you know, if that’s something they wanna do for the rest of their life. But I really hope to do whatever, you know, makes them happy, that follow their passion for me is blogging and, you know, producing content and, you know, talking to people like you. Um, and I really hope that they will have the same opportunity and by doing what we doing, you know, I hope, hope that we give them that opportunity so they can discover that without, you know, having to, you know, have a, you know, well, a regular job at the end of the day, you know, just sort of pay the bills and, you know, get through the next, you know, pace. I, so we’ll see how that works out. But

Brad (01:02:36):
, if I, it’s funny, I mean, uh, for, you know, my, my career path has been in the athletic world and being self-employed largely, and on my own schedule and working in my own environment. And now it’s like, um, the, the, the myth of this, uh, this corporate, uh, machine has been, um, toppled with quarantine where, you know, you don’t have to get on the freeway at the same time and crawl through traffic and take the elevator to this tall building to be a con a contributing human. And I think it’s great to see this explosion of the economy where, um, people are able to work on their own terms. And, um, some people that I engage with, with my business, you know, one of them’s in Portugal, the other one’s in New Zealand, it’s so cool to think like how, how the possibilities are are endless now. And yeah. Um, just more three thinking is gonna be demanded, right?

Mike (01:03:27):
Yeah, absolutely.

Brad (01:03:29):
So you had all these, uh, potential, uh, products to bring to market, and you guys settled on freeze dried organ meats. I wonder if you can, um, just put in a little more, uh, info about the importance of including, uh, the nose to tail strategy, the, the animal organs in your diet, and then where the supplements can really, uh, fill in those gaps when we’re, when our, A game is not, is not happening when we’re cooking up the stuff every day, slicing up some more heart for lunch. You guys want some not very common

Mike (01:04:01):
. Yeah, no, nobody does usually. Um, but yeah. Um, you know, I, I was thinking about as part of my, you know, blogging, uh, gig and reviewing products, I’ve, I’ve reviewed so many different supplements and, and, and things that I, I like and that I, you know, use occasionally, but there are very few things that I would say I use on a daily basis, or I wanna eat on a daily basis. And organs are one of those things. Um, even though fresh doesn’t happen every day, and that’s really the reason why we decided to go to free stride route, um, I think, you know, organs are just so full of bioavailable and readily absorbable nutrients that it’s a no brainer, you know, to make them part of your diet, knowing that, you know, a plants are not as nutritious as people make them out to be.

Mike (01:04:57):
A lot of antinutrients, many of the nutrients are in a, in a form that the body cannot readily uses to be converted first, you know, keine instead of, you know, as far as vitamin A goes, um, iron, you know, heme versus non-heme, et cetera. So there are many things that plants either don’t have at all, you know, k2, b12, uh, or inversions that are, you know, not readily available. And so I’m like, okay, if, if I wanna make sure that I get the nutrients that my body needs, especially because, you know, I have a stressful life. I work out, I do all those things that, you know, put demands on my body, I wanna make sure that I am covered, even though I eat well every day, but I don’t eat organs every day. Um, I do eat them several times a week, You know, I make my own.

Mike (01:05:43):
I just made the other day at PA with, uh, a black bear heart and black bear liver, uh, turned out really good. Um, even less liver than a straight up liver, which I usually make, so I’m mixing in the heart. That kind of took the edge up a little bit more, Um, super delicious with, with, uh, h cheeses. Um, but nevertheless, you know, I wanted to have something for the entire family that we all could eat without, you know, any issues of having to convince the kids that hey, liver is good for you, You know, they’re not gonna eat that raw liver, um, or even a cooked liver. Um, you know, and so organ meats, free stride organ meats was a, a no-brainer. It made sense for us, and because it made sense for us, I figured it would make sense for a lot of other people who appreciate the advantages of consuming organs, but who just don’t like to taste the texture or who don’t have, you know, can’t get it sourced or don’t wanna cook it, don’t have time to cook it, uh, maybe they’re traveling a lot. So by having it in capsules, it’s so easy and convenient and it gets you a forward serving of organs, uh, without any of the hassles. And so we figured this is a product that I, that we can see ourselves not only using for the rest of our lives, but also, you know, um, selling it for the rest of our lives. Because I wanted to have something that, you know, if something changes in my perception, you know, be it, you know, I don’t know,

Brad (01:07:08):
Google doesn’t like you anymore, so they shut down your phone. Well, Google

Mike (01:07:12):
. Well, you know, maybe that, or because I changed something in my, you know, maybe, you know, at one point I was, you know, using ketos, I still do, but maybe in five years I don’t use keto supplements anymore. If I own a product, you know what I’m gonna do? Either say, you know what, I don’t use it anymore. So I stopped selling it or have the conflict of interest where I’m still selling something that I’m really a hundred behind anymore. You know, And I, I don’t see myself, I, I don’t see that happening with organ meats, and that’s why restart organ meat was an no brainer for us starting with liver, because that’s, you know, I consider it nature’s ultimate multivitamin. That’s like the foundation of everything has so many, um, vitamins and minerals and cofactors and petites and all. Um, and then, you know, just add on organs for spec or organ mixes for specific use cases. Like, you know, some people are, um, very low in iron, you know, anemic, uh, and so the iron and liver might help, but spleen is the much better source of iron, for example. So, you know, that’s why we just launched a heart and spleen supplement to cover some of the, what, what gaps that liver has, you know, either as a standalone thing, if you’re low iron and everything else is fine, or in combination with, with liver to get the sort of the ultimate coverage in terms of vitamins and minerals.

Brad (01:08:26):
Mike, it’s been a pleasure to learn about all this. You got some great stuff going. I encourage the listeners to go and look at your blog and the great articles, maybe try some of those NK organ supplements, and, uh, what else does the future hold for you?

Mike (01:08:44):
Uh, I think we have a, a homestead right now, uh, with bees and chickens. Um, we wanna grow that. Ultimately we wanna make our own, uh, meat, um, put our animals. So I think next year we’re gonna start with meet rabbits. I’m gonna start a colony of rabbits and see how that goes. And then at some point, you know, buy a bigger land, more land and, and, you know, really go all in with, you know, cattle and basically, you know, be self-sufficient. I think that’s the, that’s the, the ultimate dream out there. So we can, we can control our own food supply and don’t have to worry about what’s going on in the world in terms of, you know, meat taxes or whatever might or might not come down the bike.

Brad (01:09:25):
Uh, we’ve talked so much about health and, and nutrition and peak performance, but, um, that whole other side of you, which was so fascinating to dig into listeners, this guy is a tech wiz, and he has these incredible articles with going into great detail, reviewing products, and just, uh, also talking about where tech can help us with health optimization in particular. Um, so maybe you could give us a little bit of highlights about that side of you, that hobby. Um, your review of the eight sleep mattress was incredible. It was like better than anything you could find on the company website. So, um, he’s a go-to resource for not only your, your health and diet tips, but all manner of tech, uh, wizardry.

Mike (01:10:07):
Yeah, I think tech has a, has an, can be an important aspect of, of our modern life in particular. I think best case scenario, if you live under, under Woods, you know, with the lo cloth and you know, you but your own animals, you don’t need any tech to be healthy and happy. But that doesn’t happen for most of us, you know, so we, we live in a modern world and we have to compensate and, and mitigate for some of the negative aspects of our modern lives. And, you know, sleep is one of those issues. So at the example you gave, in a way, a temperature controlled sleep system has worked wonders for our sleep and just, you know, the, the quality of our sleep, but also just how good we feel going to bed knowing it’s cool to the exact same temperature. It doesn’t matter how hot the ambient temperature is, or at least not to the extent that it used to.

Mike (01:10:54):
And so those things can, can really help. But I think it’s also important to understand that technology is not the solution to everything. It’s very easy to over medicate with technology, so to say, and have like a gadget for everything. Because if you think about it, every little thing that you add to your home, is it potential for more EMF exposure? Is it potential for, you know, stress and anxiety? Like how often, you know, if we have a smart home, and I kinda now regretted that we started going down that path, but if you say, you know, hey, smart assistant, you know, turn off the lights and it doesn’t work, you’re frustrated and then you go and turn ’em off manually, you know? Yeah. You know, so if everything works well, it can be good, but chances are, you know, too much technology is actually a bad thing. So you really wanna keep a balance and, and, and pick those things very selectively that you think can improve your life and just, you know, try to avoid fixing every issue with technology or medication for the matter. Chances are, if you go away from all of that, you’re better off than, you know, going in the opposite direction and, and adding more technology to your life. So

Brad (01:12:03):
Yeah, there’s so many examples of that, like the, the HRV reading, which has now become extremely important and popular, and I’ve been a fan fan of that for many years. Um, the continuous glucose monitor, which I also think is a wonderful tool, but I’m also, uh, uh, noticing this sort of, um, uh, this adverse backlash where people become obsessed with the numbers and they get a little disturbed seeing, uh, you know, extreme glucose spikes or, uh, a lower HRV number and, um, it can kind of get in your head when you’re looking at, right, the measuring judging forces of the world are already there. And now we have numbers to judge us every day. So, um, I’m a big fan of like, waking up in the morning and seeing how you feel and going outside and getting some sun and getting moving, all the stuff you write about on your blog. And then we’ll sit down and talk about, um, you know, why don’t you give yourself a number? Oh, today’s an 88. Okay, congratulations. You just, you just scored yourself. How can you talk that, right?

Mike (01:12:59):
Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right. Yeah, I mean, there are all helpful tools if you wanna, you know, improve your sleep, it helps understanding, you know, how you sleep, how much time you spend in deep and rem sleep and all of those, you know, sleep cycles. But just going by that knowing that technology is not perfect, um, you know, it, it can be a source of frustration for no good reason. You know, if you feel great and your ordering says, you know, you spent 10 minutes in deep sleep, maybe the ordering is wrong. You know,

Brad (01:13:28):
Imagine that.

Mike (01:13:30):

Brad (01:13:30):
Yeah. Okay. Tell us the best way to connect with you how to sign up for that newsletter and get those, uh, nice information coming into the inbox.

Mike (01:13:39):
Yeah, if you go to michael kumer.com, um, mean there is a newsletter, um, link up in the menu, but chances are if you read any of my articles after a while, you get a pop that you to sign up. Um, so you can always do that. And otherwise, I am fairly active Instagram at two, and I’m dabbling a little bit with YouTube as well, so I have a channel to do some, you know, video reviews and all. Um, those are probably the three best sources to find me otherwise out in my backyard, probably without a shirt.

Brad (01:14:09):
And what about those bees? You’re, you’re not gonna get stung. I saw the picture. Your kids are messing the beehive. You guys are all circled around the beehive for a photo op. I’m like, dang,

Mike (01:14:19):
You know what? I learned the hard way. That depends on the time of the year when the bees are gentle and when they are not. Right now since the food is scarce, there’s not a whole lot of, um, you know, stuff blooming and not a whole lot of nectar to collect. They’re pretty nasty and very protective of the hype, you know, So I got stung this year several times already, but then during, you know, fall, during spring flow, like around, you know, march to tune, you can do whatever you want to chances or they don’t even bother you because they’re so busy collecting stuff that you can do whatever you want. So it depends. But yeah, you get stung if you ever at beehive, if you get stung. There’s no way

Brad (01:14:57):
Around it just how it goes. But boy, what a great end product.

Mike (01:15:02):
Yep. We collected 65 pounds of holiday this year, so that was Wow. That should get us through the year, huh?

Brad (01:15:07):
Michael Kumer, everyone on the farm in Georgia, thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening to everybody.

Brad (01:15:16):
Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support. Please email podcast brad ventures.com with feedback, suggestions, and questions for the q and a shows, subscribe to our email list@bradkerns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bi-monthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list, and if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with Apple Podcasts or wherever else you listen to the shows, that would be super incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the B Ad podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a sound bite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to, and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word, and remember, be rad.




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