Chari Hawkins: The Training And Lifestyle Of An Elite Heptathlete, And Overcoming Performance Anxiety And Pressure

Get ready for a fantastic show with elite international heptathlete, Chari Hawkins!

As you can imagine, taking on seven different disciplines requires serious discipline, and Chari has made it to the highest level of this (quite grueling) sport, competing for team USA in the world championships, and she also happens to be an incredible high-jumper, 2024 Olympic hopeful, and Instagram sensation. However, as you will hear during this show, she has also suffered from numerous struggles and setbacks, and as the episode proceeds, it gets pretty deep and reflective, and I think you will love hearing this amazing perspective that Chari has developed through her trials and tribulations, as well as her successful moments.

You will hear her talk about her long battle with crippling performance anxiety during high-level competitions and how she managed to persevere through it, and the breakthroughs she experienced in her perspective and attitude, thanks to a tremendous amount of self-reflection. Through that self-reflection, Chari has realized some of the highest ideals of being an athlete and a peak performer, while also being focused on giving back—she has created a wonderful mental training course, 30 Days with Chari, which you can check out on her website (the link can also be found in the show notes). You will hear us talk about the mental aspects of peak performance, professionalism, and what it is really like being an athlete in a sport like track and field where there are frankly no guaranteed contracts to supplement your income. Enjoy hearing the tremendous thoughtfulness Chari offers in this wide-ranging interview and check out her website here.

TIMESTAMPS:

Chari Hawkins has an amazing career as a heptathlete. [00:51]

Chari explains her sport and talks about managing to keep her brain as well as her body in check for the two-day event. [04:07]

How is the heptathlon scored? [08:08]

You have to really train your mind. You have to deal with seven different personalities. [10:52]

There is a tradition of everyone collapsing at the end of the last event. [14:08]

How did the progression from college athlete to heptathlete go? She dealt with performance anxiety. [15:23]

The gravity of the competition was extreme that she had attached her value as a person to the results. [24:53]

It is terribly difficult to unwire the anxiety mindset. We need to train mentally. [34:30]

She was waiting for a breakthrough to happen instead of having a plan to fix and create a breakthrough. [41:11]

So often we give the athlete who “failed” space to deal with their feelings whereas it might be better to go to them and say, “How are you doing?” A loss in sport doesn’t have to be life or death. [46:37]

The fans and sponsors put much pressure on the athlete. [47:50]

More than being a winning athlete, think about what you can bring to the world in the long run. [54:05]

How is she able to make a living in this not-too-common sport? [29:10]

Work for your own progress, not to get a sponsor. [01:07:19]

How is she able to jump so high? {01:08:43]

How does mental training work? [01:12:49]

When in doubt about continuing on in your sports career, ask yourself these questions. [01:17:02]

LINKS:

LISTEN:

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (00:00:51):
Hello friends. Get ready for a fantastic show with elite international Heptathlete named Chari Hawkins. And boy, I got way more than I bargained for with this amazing young woman who I was looking forward to talking to her about her amazing competitive exploits. She’s an incredible high jumper, along with the other six events that she competes in, in the grueling sport of heptathlon in track and field. She’s made it to the very highest level competing in the world championships, and she’s also had numerous struggles and setbacks. And as the show proceeds, it’s gonna get pretty deep and pretty heavy and reflective. And I think you’re gonna love this amazing perspective that has developed through trials and tribulations as well as success. And she talks about her long battle with crippling performance anxiety in association with these high level competitions and how she didn’t give up.

Brad (00:01:50):
She had to persevere, she had to work through it. And then she experienced some breakthroughs in perspective and attitude and a tremendous amount of self-reflection. And through that self-reflection, she has realized some of the highest ideals of being an athlete, being a peak performer, and also being focused on the process and on giving back. And she’s created this wonderful mental training course titled 30 Days with Chari. You can read all about it on her website, Chari hawkins.com. C H A R I. She’s an Instagram sensation. That’s how I originally found her. And I was so impressed with her professionalism and the seriousness with which she created these very informative, helpful posts with little coaching tips for athletes and exercisers and everything was really high production value. And all this is quite rare for a currently competing elite athlete. So we talk a lot about the mental aspects of peak performance.

Brad (00:02:53):
And then we talk about the professionalism and what it’s like to be an athlete in a sport like track and field, where, frankly, there’s not a million multimillion dollar guaranteed contracts running around like you see in the other sports. And people have to scramble and scrape to make a living. And it’s pretty, it’s a pretty rough road, and she has excelled for a long time with greater heights in front of her. I think you’re gonna love the tremendous thoughtfulness and perspective that she offers in this wide ranging interview with Chari Hawkins. And you can tell she’s such a natural when she starts throwing some questions back at me now and then, and I think she has a future as a TV personality podcast host among many other things. So, you’re gonna dig her. Here she goes. It’s Chari the heptathlete, but hey, that’s not her identity. She’s Chari the all around cool person. <laugh>.

Chari (00:03:47):
Here we go. Chari Hawkins, I am so glad to connect with you after watching from afar the amazing athletic exploits of the heptathlete. And I guess we should start by saying hi and turning it over to you and explaining this amazing career and the most incredible track and field event that you participate in.

Chari (00:04:07):
Yes. Thank you so much for having me on here. Um, my name is Chari Hawkins. For anybody who, most people, probably all of the people that are watching don’t know who I am. I’m a Team USA heptathlete, so that’s track and field. It’s seven events over the course of two days. So we kind of just do, we’re we’re the kind of people like, you know, we used to say like Jack all trades, master of none kind of a thing. Uh, we weren’t good enough to do just one events, we had to do all of ’em. Um, that’s like always kind of like the standing joke. So we start off day one, we go hurdles, high jump, shot put, 200, then we come back the next day. We do long jump, javeln, and the 800. And I mean, I remember one time we started, I think we started at 9:00 AM and our last event of the day was 9:00 PM and that’s a 12 hour day, right?

Chari (00:04:54):
And obviously we’re not working out for that entire 12 hours, but like, when you’re competing, like, I don’t know if you ever do this, but when you’re competing, like you’re, you’re pretty like high up on the, like, aware, like your, your sympathetic nervous system kicks in more than it should and like all that stuff. So it, it’s, it can be like really exhausting. So it’s a, it’s a fun game to play of how we can get our brains to calm down and our bodies to work when it needs to work and, um, move where it needs to move, when it needs to move. It’s, it’s really fun. It’s challenging, but it’s awesome.

Brad (00:05:27):
I used to get that same comment about being a triathlete where, oh, you’re not quite good enough to be an Olympic runner or ride in the Tour de France. And people would ask me, uh, so, Oh, you’re a triathlete, that’s great swim, bike, run. What’s your best event? And I would, uh, I developed a wiseass answer after a while, and it was my best event is the triathlon. And they’d say, No, no, I mean, of the three. And I said, That is my answer, because you realize that you have to turn into this athlete that’s doing seven different things over two days and 12 hour days. And that is an event in itself. And so I think, you know, we, we fortunately have celebrated going back with, Bruce Jenner and the de athletes and Bob Mathias, and people appreciate that the greatest female athlete and the greatest male athlete might get that moniker from, from doing such an amazing overall performance and the amazing training regimen that’s required.

Chari (00:06:25):
Yeah, I actually remember when I was in, in college and I was doing the heptathlon and we had a, all of a sudden we had this influx of heptathletes and I was so excited because I wasn’t training by myself. So I was like, Yes, like, this is so great. And my coach finally because we were just having people walk on and become he athletes, um, which is fabulous. I think everybody should give it a shot. Like, and if you’re listening to this and you go to college, walk on and be like, I’m just gonna be a heptathlete, and here’s why. Because at first, like usually coaches will be like, Okay, cool. Like, let’s give it a try and it’s so fun, so try it. And you might be really good at it. Um, but after a while, I remember my coach ended up being like, No, we need to find, she’s like, I’m learning that the worst. I used to think the worst athlete. I’ll just make them a heptathlete. And I’m realizing that only the best athletes can be the heptathletes.

Brad (00:07:18):
Nice.

Chari (00:07:19):
And so, uh, she’s like, it’s one of those things that you have to be good at everything. You can’t just not be good at one thing. That’s, that’s what it is. So it, I, we, we shifted it in a, in a positive light. It was really fun. But yeah, it was, it was, I thought it was really fun for me because I was like, Yay, teammates. So I loved it. Um, it was so fun.

Brad (00:07:41):
Well, especially when you get to the elite level, it’s absolutely stunning how good you have to be in each one because if you’re even great at six of the seven events, you’re gonna get left so far behind or you screw up, like you, you miss a hurdle and you fall, your entire meet is over. Not just a bad, a bad run through the hurdles. Maybe explain some of the, um, how the scoring works and how that precision is required in every single event.

Chari (00:08:08):
Yeah. So the way that it works is basically the better you do, the higher your score’s gonna be. So it has nothing to do with place. You could take dead last in an event and only lose 20 points because you did just as like, you did almost as good. It was just such a tight race, right? So it really is no nothing to do with place and everything to do with, um, your, your event. So if you run really fast in the hurdles, like if you run even faster, you’ll get more points. And basically, uh, that’s just like how it rocks. And some of the events, like the way that I, my theory, I have no idea if this is true, but I like to throw out theories that aren’t harmful. And just make them up as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody, whatever, Let’s just imagine, go with me on this.

Chari (00:08:58):
I like to imagine that what they did when they did the heptathlon is they looked at all of the world records and they said, Okay, that’s a thousand points. So if you can break a world, if you can basically break a world record, you’ve gotten a thousand points. And then as technology evolved, nutrition evolved, everything evolved, everybody started getting better. So there’s some events that it’s actually kind of easy to break, in my mind, the old, the old world record. There’s events that it’s really easy to get a thousand points in. Almost everybody has the opportunity to get a thousand points in, like say the hurdles, like just about everybody gets that a thousand point barrier. But it is actually really difficult to get a thousand points in the shot put. The average heptathlete that is like going to world championships will throw between 13, mid and 15 meters, um, right around there.

Chari (00:09:49):
And you have to throw 17 meters to go a thousand points. So two meters is what, six feet? So it’s a huge, that’s, that’s a huge discrepancy. So it kind of, a lot of people will practice certain events so they can, you know, this one is really high scoring events, so I wanna really practice on this. Or people will say, you know, this is one that not a lot of people score high points on. So if I can be really good at it, then I can have an advantage. Um, which makes it really fun because it kind of goes to show that, um, pretty much like anyone who is, you know, decently athletic and disciplined and isn’t gonna stop, like they really can do it because you can take so many different angles with it. But it does come down to a point where, um, I remember somebody was so cute. They were like, um, oh, like, but the thing is this, the heads off on so easy because if you do bad an event, you have seven events to make up for it. And I was like, Oh, you’re new

Brad (00:10:49):
<laugh>. You’re new. Poor thing.

Chari (00:10:52):
Yeah, yeah, you’re new. If you do bad an an event, you’re in trouble. You have a lot of work to do now. But yeah, no, it’s so fun. And I think the most fun that I’ve had is really getting into the mental aspect. I mean, I’ve always had fun learning all of the events, but you have to, you know, be willing and able to train your mind to be able to not only survive a heptathlon, because it is a long time to be able to be focused and stay in it. But you have to be able to switch your mindset from the mindset of a hurdler to the mindset of a shot putter or completely different things. So you have to be and high jump, oh my goodness, high, you know, um, with high jump, like you have to be calm, cool, collected, you know, Um, but with hurdles, you, you gotta be like ready to go mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you kind of have to create a whole persona for every single event.

Brad (00:11:46):
Yeah. You talked about your, your seven different personalities, and that’s such a great visual because, you know, know, getting into each event separately and individually and also shaking off perhaps a poor performance in the stack of seven events going through the two days is incredibly important. And that’s a skill that I don’t think individual event athletes can even conceive of. You know, they either have a great, especially a hundred meters, you know, Usain Bolt flies across the world and, uh, false starts in the world championships and goes home. That’s it. And, uh, it’s, it’s something special. I think the stuff you mentioned about the point scoring, uh, a couple cool attributes about that for the fans especially is that you see in every single event, every person is trying super hard. So you see people diving for the line to take seventh place in their heat of the 200 meters because it’s their individual point score.

Chari (00:12:41):
Yeah.

Brad (00:12:41):
Not that it matters even what heat they’re in or how they compare to the competition. And the other cool part of that, I’m assuming this is true, we, we’ve heard these great stories, but the comaraderie among multi event athletes is just so tremendous. There’s not that weird competitiveness that we often see where the two best middle distance guys can’t train together cuz they beat each other up. You, you generally see, you know, training hard all day long and so many events and you guys helping each other out, especially when you have relative strengths and weaknesses.

Chari (00:13:14):
Yeah. The, the great thing about the Heptathlon is like we, when it comes to especially competition, I think that, you know, we’re all gonna fight as hard as we can, but at the end of the day, like we are all really all into this together. Um, and not, we, we, I think that we all joke like, none of us actually want to be here, but everybody wants to be here, you know, kind of a thing. And so like, because of that, like we, we band together and we, um, we cheer for each other and like, at the end of the day, like my whole thing too is learning how to be happy for people who do well and say like, I want you to do your best. I want you to do super well. I just wanna beat you. That’s all like, I want, And it’s not that I wanna beat you. It’s like, I want my best to be the best. You know? Like that’s really what it is, but it doesn’t mean that I want you to do poorly. Right? So it’s, it’s a cool, it’s really cool sport, really cool event for sure.

Brad (00:14:08):
Now, um, who invented that collapsing at the end of the 800 meters and how did that become a tradition? Cause it seems like everybody like agrees to do it. It’s just such a relief after the seven events are over. But it’s pretty funny to see the athletes

Chari (00:14:21):
Are you talking about like when we just follow the ground?

Brad (00:14:23):
Yeah, Yeah.

Chari (00:14:24):
Okay. So here’s who invented it. Whoever invented the heptathlon. Because imagine I always say this, I actually say this to my 800 runners. Imagine if you only ran one time per week, that’s, and then you went and you went on the line and you had to run a whole 800 like in a race and you, you only practiced one time a week. We, we only run for the 800 once a week, Everything else. We’re really working on that fast twitch. We’re really working on like getting as fast and as powerful and explosive and because everything else, like, and then we exhaust ourselves one time per week, so when we cross the line, we cannot stand up <laugh>. And so I think like that’s really what it is. I don’t know if it, I don’t know if it’s just like, oh yeah, like we’re all gonna like collapse at the end. I think it’s like genuinely we have nothing left in our legs to give <laugh>. It’s, it’s over

Brad (00:15:23):
Pretty awesome. Uh, so take us back to college when you started to, I suppose drift over or, or, or try out a multi-event competition mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then how did that progression went from uh, being, being a collegiate athlete and then envisioning this path where you could make this your profession?

Chari (00:15:43):
Yeah, so I was recruited for the Heptathlon. I was in, uh, in high school. I went to school in Idaho and I was the state champion in three of the events. So it was just one of those things where that was, it was high jump, long jump hurdles. They were like, Hey, that’s a heptathlete. So I was recruited for the Heptathlon.

Brad (00:16:05):
So you were the state champ in three of the seven events. That is a pretty good recruit right there. I would, I

Chari (00:16:11):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have a little bit promise and I was just, yeah. And I was just a silly gal too. Like, um, like, uh, at a, I remember out of, uh, college, um, I used to get told like, You’re just so immature. And I’m like, Thank you, it’s so great. But it’s, cuz I thought everything was hilarious. I was always bouncing off walls. And so I’m sure that college coaches were like, Okay, that girl has energy. Like, let’s see what she’s got. But I think that my biggest issue is when I was in college, I started getting like some really severe performance anxiety. And that was actually the reason that I decided to go pro because I just knew that I had a lot more to give.

Brad (00:16:53):
Oh.

Chari (00:16:54):
Um, and I, I didn’t feel comfortable. Maybe it was fomo, I don’t know. I just didn’t feel comfortable stopping. I felt like I still needed to go because there was just, I hadn’t reached my full potential yet. And I just didn’t like the way that that felt. I, I knew that there was gonna be all of my life to live a different life than track and field. And I, I just, this, this chapter wasn’t finished yet. And so, um, that’s why, you know, I didn’t have a plan at all. I just started like asking questions. My biggest, honestly, my biggest advice to anybody who wants to get into something and doesn’t know where to start, the, the where the please start, is just start asking people. Because somebody’s gonna know somebody who knows who, somebody who knows. And then it’s going to get you to where you need to go.

Chari (00:17:41):
You’ll never get the answers to a question you don’t ask. And so I started asking people like, Hey, I, how, how would I start my professional career? And somebody gave me the phone number of somebody who could potentially send me workouts and then I could just work out on my own. And then that person was like, Let me give you contact information for somebody who actually has a track club for heptathletes. Like give them a call. And that’s how I became a pro. I ended up joining the Santa Barbara Track Club. And so, um, started, loved it. My performance anxiety was just overwhelming. It never got better. And I, I think like as a professional athlete, I was like, well, like I’m a professional now. Like I should,

Brad (00:18:25):
You’re allowed to be anxious,

Chari (00:18:25):
Really different person, right? Like, and it’s like, no, turns out like you’re the same <laugh>. And uh, I was still just getting overwhelming anxiety debilitating. Like my coach who is phenomenal, like love him, love what I’ve learned, what I learned from him. Loved his track club. It was just so awesome. But he saw how much pain I was in every day, just like crying at practice during runs. Like for no reason mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he came to me, he’s like, you know, like, I do think you need to start making other plans. I just don’t think this is for you. And he, he was coming from only positive place. He was just seeing how unhappy I was. And he was like, This, this girl is like such a happy person. And she’s just crying all the time, like having anxiety all the time. Like, this is not where this should go.

Chari (00:19:15):
And so I ended up being like, I just know in my heart that I can’t stop. So I moved to England. I found an opportunity to be able to go get my Master’s degree in education. And I had my bachelor’s in education as well. So I was like, Let me go get my Master’s and I’ll give it everything that I have cuz I was gonna, I was able to train there, get my Master’s. And I was like, I’m gonna give everything that I have and um, if I don’t get better, then I’ll come back and I’ll have my Master’s degree and then if I do get better, then we will go, we’ll keep going. So I ended up giving it everything. I fully rededicated myself to the sport truly. Instead of just showing up, I was preparing, um, instead of just being there, I was concentrating instead of just eating foods, I was like trying to find out what foods were gonna be best for me. Like I really went for it. And I put, I mean, I think I put like 180 points onto my score in one year.

Brad (00:20:16):
Wow.

Chari (00:20:17):
So, which is, which is pretty good. And so I was like, okay, like I can do this. We went, moved back, we came to San Diego. Um, and that was it. It’s own whole story of how I ended up in San Diego, but now I’m training here. I love it. It’s, um, been an incredible journey. But, uh, yeah. It’s so crazy. Everybody’s story’s so different and random and crazy.

Brad (00:20:42):
So you’ve been very expressive about your struggles and I think it’s a tremendous help to other athletes to, to come forward and, and talk about it freely. And I’m wondering, well we go back to college where you report, you know, building up this, this tremendous performance anxiety, but you had this goofy outward persona. I wonder if that was sort of a, a, a screen for, um, you know, masking what was going on inside. And also like what was the origin of all this performance anxiety? Cuz if you’re a fun, loving free-spirited person, um, and then all of a sudden there’s a dark side, um, it it’s, it’s sort of something to, um, to reconcile. I wonder if you if you have reflections on that.

Chari (00:21:23):
Yeah, I mean, I actually see, like, I, I actually see like what you mean by like, oh, like would it be a mask? I will say that I’ve been goofy and weird like my whole life. So, um, I would say probably not. Um, what I would say though is it probably was more difficult for me to talk about because, um, everybody assumed, or maybe I was expected to be happy go lucky all the time. And so, um, I actually do remember I was having a full blown panic attack in the bathroom and I was like laying down and my friend came over and was like, What’s wrong? And he is like, like, what’s like, but really, like, what’s wrong? Like with you? Like cl like, like probably like, this is just like not who you are. Like what are you doing? And it was, I was so embarrassed.

Chari (00:22:09):
I remember being like really embarrassed. So it probably made it like probably a little more difficult to talk about. I think that the biggest aha for me in mental health, because I assumed at the time that it was just inexperience and this is very normal and I just don’t like, the more I do it, the better I’ll get. And I was just waiting year after year after year for my anxiety to just go away, like ex expecting that eventually I was gonna get where I needed to go. And so don’t worry about it, you know. And it wasn’t until 2019. Uh, so I graduated, um, high school in 2010. So nine years later is when I finally figured out my anxiety. Like nine years. Never, not one time did I compete without a full blown panic attack. Not once. Um, and it was my last panic attack was nine, 2019 indoor championships.

Chari (00:23:10):
There was, to be fair, there was a lot going on that caused the anxiety attack, but um, I just lost it. Right? And my body seized, like literally seized up on me. I was a robot and I started Charlie Horsing and then I pulled my hamstring. Like my, my body just rejected the premise of me doing. And I was in phenomenal shape. I was super healthy. I’m, I’m very, I’m actually very hyper mobile, like very, very, very hyper mobile. So I don’t pull hamstrings very often. You know what I mean? And so it was, my body was just like, rejection, no, I’m not doing this again. And so I remember telling my parents at the meet, I was like, I’m not doing this anymore. And I think they thought like, I’m not doing track anymore, but I meant like, I’m not doing this like whole anxiety thing anymore. Like

Brad (00:24:01):
I’m not doing this whole thing.

Chari (00:24:01):
I’m done. I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it anymore. I’m so sick of this. And so I just, like I said before, I just started asking questions. I started asking every single person I knew, like, Do you have anxiety? Do you ever like get, they’re like, um, what? And I was like, Can you like, cuz I’m getting it and like, what are your thoughts? Like, what do you think? And I, every single person would give me their feedback. Like, just, just breathe. Like, just this, just like that, just this. And I was like, Okay, that’s not helpful. Um, <laugh>, you know? And um, and finally, you know, after, like I said, if you just keep asking, you’re gonna get the answer. And after a while somebody was started talking about like, athletes who have it and athletes who don’t have it. It just like, just kind of depends on like, it’s a personality thing. And they were saying like, it’s a personality thing, like that’s just who you are kind of a thing. And I was like, Really? Dang it? Like, That’s too bad.

Brad (00:24:52):
Yeah. Really

Chari (00:24:53):
Bad. And I was just like, Yeah, cuz like I will say that so and so just like doesn’t get anxiety. And something they said was like, Yeah, like she, she just like, I don’t think she understands the gravity of competition, so she doesn’t put it as like, what life goes around. And I was like, Wait, what? He’s like, yeah. Like she doesn’t like make it life like cuz she doesn’t understand like the gravity of competition like other people do. And in my mind I was thinking like the gravity of competition and that like clicked in my head that for all of those years I was attaching my value as a person to my competition. The gravity of the competition was so extreme that I had attached my actual human value. Like if you win. And I think it stemmed from like, praise and ignoring, you know, when, when somebody does bad and you see them and you don’t wanna upset them, so you kind of just like give them their space.

Chari (00:25:52):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like, I wanna give them their space, but if somebody does really well, you wanna congratulate them so you’re in their space. Right? And I think that year, after year after year, I had noticed that like, if I did really well, people would come up to me and congratulate me and like, you did amazing. And if I didn’t do well, it wasn’t like, Hey, like listen, you’re literally a phenomenal athlete. Like, we all have those days, you know what I mean? Like, don’t worry about it. Like, you got this time, who cares? Like, I don’t care. You don’t care. Nobody cares. Yeah. And I never got that even by my coaches. My coaches would give me space. Like, and I wasn’t like a, I wasn’t like a throwing chairs or like anything like that. It was just, I think people didn’t wanna upset me, so they were like, I’m gonna give her space.

Chari (00:26:36):
Like, we’ll talk about it later. Like, you know what I mean? And I think I had just subconsciously attached this, like, people care about me when I win. Yeah. And people don’t care about me when I don’t win. And so I had attached this like, I better freaking win. Like there’s a lot at stake here. And so I really like went and did a lot of work with that and just had to kind of ask myself and do some shadow work and say like, Hey self, like, do you think that you are worthy? Like whether you win or whether you don’t win? And I was like, Yeah. Like of course. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they’re like, you know, prove it. Yeah. Act like it. And that was a huge moment for me. It really was. It was. And that was the last time I had a full blown panic attack mm-hmm.

Chari (00:27:23):
<affirmative>. But I will say that it is not where my mental training journey started. It was just, it it is. But I still, like, they always say that like, sports is 80% mental. Right. So I realized that I wasn’t training any part of my mental brain mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, so like, yes, I was no longer having anxiety, but as a professional heptathlete, I wasn’t winning anything. I was always coming in like third, fourth, sixth, fifth, just like at any given meet, any given meet. And I, it was like I had just placed myself in this little cushy, like mid range, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that’s, I’m not sure if you know, but like, that’s not very fun. <laugh> no. Like, you know, like why

Brad (00:28:14):
Not with training eight hours a day?

Chari (00:28:15):
No. Yeah. Like how, why am I not, have I, like how come I haven’t like, thought like trained? Why am I not training to win? Like why and when I compete, like I almost felt like I was going into it not expecting to win mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, so that’s when I kind of started my journey of talking to sports psychologists. Well, and I had been talking to sports psychologists, but I was trying to get rid of my anxiety at that time. So this was more just like, how can we take it to the next level, talking to coaches, how can I take it to the next level? And asking every question that I could. And, um, a lot of the people that I would talk to would give me answers to questions I had. But then I remember somebody asked me, you know, Chari, how do I start my own mental journey?

Chari (00:29:04):
Cuz I talk a lot, a lot about it on my social platforms. I talk a lot about like, hey, mental training, like da da da. And people were like, How do I start? Like, how do I even start that? And in my brain I was like, I have no idea how to start that. I, I wouldn’t even know where to start. I, I just ask, I just ask somebody who tells me what to do. Like, I don’t know how to start, but I was like, the one thing I will say is that I’m a teacher and I have my bachelor’s and Master’s and like, one thing I know how to do is put together a curriculum. Um, and so I just started making a list of every single thing that has ever helped me. Whether it was, was something that I learned on my own, something that somebody has taught me, something I’ve learned over the years, um, or just like my own personal journaling.

Chari (00:29:49):
Like I just went through every single thing and I put together like all of the most potent stuff and I just started writing it out. And that was a huge, that was the biggest game changer because it took me from somebody who was showing up like, let’s see what we got. Mm-hmm. To somebody who was like, I have a plan. I’m here to execute it, let’s freaking go. Mm-hmm. And I went from like, not winning, like anything as professional athlete to, I won, like last year I ended up winning three gold medals in competition. I won, um, the American championship for indoor. I dang near took third, but I fouled all three of my long jumps at world championships. But Oh, okay. Um, that was a bummer. But hey, like came,

Brad (00:30:33):
Wait, you fouled all three and so you didn’t get three more is something like,

Chari (00:30:37):
So what happens is you only get three attempts.

Brad (00:30:39):
Yeah. Um,

Chari (00:30:40):
If you foul all three, you get a zero. And so you can’t, you can’t recover for that one. And I was in, I was in third place, I think fourth place was I think 160 points below me. Ah. So it was bummer. It was a bummer. And you know what’s crazy is I remember the last jump. I was like, we’re gonna, we’re not even gonna touch the board. We’re gonna be on the back of the board. We’re gonna go. And I took like a whole, like this much back and I was like, We’re gonna be on the back of the board. You’re gonna go for it and you’re gonna be on the back of the board. And even though you’re on the back of the board, you’re gonna jump so far that it’s gonna, it’s still gonna, it’s still gonna be a great jump.

Chari (00:31:14):
And like you’re, it’s gonna be fine. You know? And I, I mean that’s like that, that’s good mental choice. I went for it. I took time. And, but you know, like it was a fast track. I went to, I went a little too much and I fouled. And it was like the, And you know what I actually learned why I fouled before. I mean afterwards, um, after analyzing and everything is, um, I had been thinking weirdly that my whole foot on the board, I, my whole foot needed to be on the board, my entire flat foot. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But actually the board is small enough that your only your toes should be on the board. Mm. If you put your whole foot on the board, um, you will foul mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that, I thought that I was like, um, my, my entire foot was on the board, but I was like, anyways, that’s, that’s its own thing.

Chari (00:32:06):
That was just like a, in case anybody’s a long jumper and they’re fouling a lot. Maybe that was something that they did. But, uh, yeah. So, um, I won the indoor, um, USA Championships. Um, I won the, an international, uh, meet at Arona. And there’s one more that I don’t know why. Oh. And I won thca, which was my first Team usa, um, uh, stuff. So it’s just like, it was an amazing year, uh, a year that I’ve never had. Cause I’ve never had such a winning year. And every time I, I went into a competition, um, it was the first time I went into a competition without being like, see where this goes. Um, I felt like I finally had like the eye of a tiger. Like, let’s freaking go. I got this. So it was huge. It was game changing.

Brad (00:32:57):
So it’s a huge difference from coming to competition with anxiety. I’m wondering if the anxiety kicked in during training or only when you were actually at a meet?

Chari (00:33:07):
Yeah. Be, um, mostly at a meet. Um, especially as I continued going. Um, my, but it would definitely come in practice as well. But it was definitely during meet, I mean, um, I don’t know if you’ve been at a track meet indoor for a while, but they have like the little timers and they’re like little tents and then they show the time on the front. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I remember one time I went underneath that little tent because I was about to start having a full panic attack and I didn’t want anybody to see me. Like, it was pretty rough. It was really, really rough. But yeah, it was a, it was huge shift and huge change. And it, I get, it’s so crazy because it doesn’t mean I don’t get nervous. I mean mm-hmm. <affirmative> nerves don’t equal anxiety. Nerves are good things, you know?

Chari (00:33:55):
But now I get excited to compete. I look forward to my competitions and like, I’m like, Oh my gosh, let’s freaking go. Let’s freaking go. Let’s freaking go. I want to go instead of, Oh my goodness, no. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Like, let’s get this over with, let’s get this over with. You know, it’s just, it’s a completely different mindset shift and I feel, I feel like so happy. And also I wish I could go back in time and do this program that I like the curriculum and the purposeful thing, like so much earlier

Brad (00:34:30):
<laugh>. Yeah. I guess this was your journey and that’s how it was meant to be. Totally. But it, it, it’s, it’s amazing because really it’s incredibly difficult to unwire those, those pathways that get wired. Every time you have an anxiety episode in association with competition, now you fricking get outta the parking lot and walk into the stadium and you’re at risk because, uh, it’s, it’s a familiar pattern. Yeah. And even the, um, reporting of finishing in those middle positions, it’s, it’s likely that, um, you know, you were, you’re afraid to fail as well as afraid to break through and reach your highest potential. And so you’re kind of stuck in this, um, this point where your self esteem is attached to the outcome of what you’re doing. And it’s a really fragile and risky place to operate in. I think all listeners can relate, your examples are gonna be more extreme because they’re in the sporting arena where everyone’s watching and wondering why you’re crawling under the tent. But when we attach our self-esteem to, uh, the workplace and getting the promotion or not, or, or whatever it is, um, boy, it’s just a rough, it’s just a rough road and it’s very difficult to extricate from.

Chari (00:35:43):
Yeah. And do you know what’s interesting is, you know, we talked about this a little earlier before we started, um, but it’s just so crazy how so many things change in life. And so it’s just so important to like continue your progression. So by no means am I saying here now I have the full key and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s gonna unlock every door and all that kind of stuff. Because there are you, you know, you mentioned something like, um, like earlier you said, Oh, I can’t even remember what you were talking about. You’re, Dang it. It was a really good point. I had it in my head. Um, we were talking, we were talking about like with performance

Brad (00:36:21):
Oh yeah. The ongoing journey with diet, I think we were talking about and

Chari (00:36:24):
Yeah. Yeah. No, no, for sure. I was gonna relate it to what we were just talking about, but my brain was too excited about it, I think. But, um, regardless, like at the end, at the end of the day, like it, it’s all a journey and it changes and I’m, I still have so many things that I’m working on, you know, like you had mentioned something earlier and when you mentioned it, I was like, Yeah. Like I, I still don’t have that in a perfect, you know, habit. And there’s still things I’m unlearning, um, things about like my potential that I’m like, Okay, like can I do it? Oh, you were talking about that’s what it was. We got it, We got it. Um, you were talking about like being in like the middle of the pack and, um, that was something that like subconsciously like maybe that I was working on.

Chari (00:37:06):
And um, that’s something that like I’m still working through and I’ve had breakthroughs and the more I work on it, the more breakthroughs I have. But you know, they, they just, they say that sports are just so mental mm-hmm. <affirmative> and there’s just, why, why don’t we train mentally? Like really, like, I think it’s because for me it was because I didn’t know what that looked like. I, I think, um, I didn’t know what training mentally looked like. Whereas like with us, with, um, my sport, I have a coach who would tell me exactly what we’re doing every day and we build on a pyramid. So we build with, we lay, we lay the base, um, with, um, stability and mobility, then we go to building strength, then we go to building power, then we go to building tric movement. So we build on that pyramid. It makes so much sense. I know exactly why we’re doing everything, but when it comes to mental training, it is, there’s, there was just no structure to it. Um, and that’s like why I like, wanted to dive so deep into it because, um, it’s so important, but we don’t know where to start.

Brad (00:38:19):
Yeah. That’s disappointing to hear from an elite level athlete, especially that those resources aren’t there waving in your face saying, Hey, let’s put you through our six week course at Colorado Springs, cuz you show potential to be, uh, an Olympic level. And it, it, it seems appropriate, especially with, um, all the increasing attention now on mental health for athletes with Michael Phelps documentary that he was highlighted in the weight of gold and, and Simone Biles and, and Naomi Osaka. Um, it, it seems like it’s still floating out there. Um, I, I’d rather hear that you, um, you signed up for the, uh, the Olympic course and, and, and turned your whole, uh, mentality around, but you, you’re kind of left to your own devices and questioning the crap out of everyone that you come across that track me. That’s, um, that’s a rough way to go.

Chari (00:39:05):
Yeah. I actually have a question for you. Like, what are your thoughts on Olympians like finding like themselves depressed after the Olympics? Like what are your thoughts on that?

Brad (00:39:17):
Doing what?

Chari (00:39:19):
Like when they talk about like how a lot of Olympians, like they find them, they find themselves after the Olympics are over, like just kind of in a depressive state, like they throw

Brad (00:39:28):
Good question. I think your path is revealing the, um, you know, the, the risk involved with, uh, competing so intensely and attaching your self esteem to the outcome. And I competed as a pro triathlete for nine years and I had to go through those same, um, recalibrations myself. And I think what helped me was concurrently getting my ass kicked royally and sent home in the baggage department of the airplane. And then the next time I turn around I’m winning the race. And so having those extreme ups and downs where I have my heart set on, on success and I get the doors blown off, and then actually being able to experience success, success pretty soon, you have to let go of the roller coaster ride and realize that you’re in it for the journey and the personal growth that’s offered with both success and failure.

Brad (00:40:19):
And it sounds like you, what’s amazing about your story too is that you report that this is a decade of your life where you’re enduring this pain and suffering and not giving up. So I think secretly if we went behind the curtain, you had the secret the whole time. Like you were committed to the process no matter what, even with the pain and suffering that you didn’t deserve because you were dealing with the mental health overlay that just, you know, struck you down, but you kept going and you persevered. And so now it’s like finally you can kind of reap the rewards, not only from moving up in the rankings, but just having this peaceful existence where you’re doing something that you love and it’s not gonna be shattered glass if you, uh, fell three times on the long jump. Although that totally sucks. No two ways about it. It just does. Yeah.

Chari (00:41:11):
Yeah. It’s one of those things where you’re like, yeah, like, ah, okay, well, alright, well let’s move forward. Um, yeah, no, I agree with you for sure. I think that, um, my biggest thing was that I think I was waiting, I was waiting for a breakthrough to happen instead of like having a plan to fix and create a breakthrough. And for me, and I talk about this in what, what I’m calling, you know, 30 days of Chari, um, that’s that curriculum that I talked to you about that I made for myself and, and making available to others as well. And I’m really excited about it. But we, I actually do mention that I think the difference, for like my opinion on why people who either train their entire lives and like they put their entire lives on hold. All that, what I do, like all the time, every single thing has to do with track.

Chari (00:42:09):
Like my parents call me, Hey, are you gonna be able to come to the family reunion? No. Hey, are you gonna be able to make it home, um, for Thanksgiving? No. Um, I, I have to train and they totally understand they get it, but it’s like you have to put your whole life. Hey, do you guys wanna start a family soon? No. Well, because we can’t right now. We will eventually, I’m sure, but like, no, like your, your life kind of goes on hold. But then in 2021, I didn’t make the Olympic team and in 2019 I did make the team. So I thought I was gonna make the Olympics. Like I thought I was gonna be become an Olympian. And when that was tripped for me, like I was depressed and I, I would say probably that same like when Olympics, when Olympians and I obviously can’t know personally when Olympians come home from the Olympics and they’re feeling depressed.

Chari (00:43:01):
Like imagine not going, you know, you, you watching it from the sideline thinking, I, I need to be there. I mean it’s, it’s pretty depressing. And what I found in my own journey was, and I talk about this in um, within my little program, is that I was attaching my goals like they were my dreams. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you know, with dreams, like in my opinion, like our dreams are our life purpose and what we really hope to do in this world. And like our ultimate, like, it never ends. Like a dream really never ends. It’s congruent. It’s like always there, but, and goals are stepping stones to help us get our dreams. And I think we were, we were making goals into dreams <laugh>.

Brad (00:43:47):
Um, I get ya, I get ya.

Chari (00:43:49):
And uh, so when our dream either doesn’t happen, our dream, our life purpose, our whole thing that we’re attaching our entire life to doesn’t happen or is now over. That’s pretty depressing. You know, in general, like if you, if you, if the dream that you had forever is just now dead and now you don’t have a dream, like it does seem like that is wild, right? But if a goal is over and your dream is still alive and well, like now we can start making new goals, we can start making new things. And I think that sometimes even those little mindset shifts can be huge. And it was huge for me. This year, um, was pretty wild because I made qualified for world indoors, went to world indoors, I had to come home and five weeks later I had outdoor championships mm-hmm. <affirmative> to qualify for World Outdoors. Five weeks. I hadn’t even picked up a javelin all year cuz I was focused on indoor. Um, I also had like, a family tragedy in that moment.

Chari (00:44:52):
I was still trying to lick my wounds from not getting a, an a bronze medal at World Championships. And I got really sick. So I didn’t, I wasn’t able to train for two full weeks before the actual competition and I ended up taking fourth. And only top three go to worlds. However, there’s like a little bit of a thing. It’s, it’s really weird, but if you, if you get the standard or you fall within the ranking, um, and people in the top three, don’t you still get to go to worlds? So what happened was, I was in the top ranking. The girl who took silver on that day, she was not in the ranking. So I thought I was gonna go to Worlds. I was super excited, I was prepared. Um, I think it was a week, a week and a half, a week and a half before, a week and a half before World started.

Chari (00:45:42):
I had been training all season. We were good. Um, so many girls dropped out of the competition. There were, because it was a a commonwealth. So many girls dropped out that the girl that was ranked below, she popped right up into place. Chari is no longer going to Worlds. Um, and so first of all, I’m so, I was so happy for the girl that went because it was her first world championship. How exciting is that? Like we all, like, I’ve been to World, It’s so exciting. I was so thrilled. It has, like I said, with the Heptathlon, it’s a lot of comaraderie. We’re really happy for our competitors. We just hope to beat them. Right. That’s just like what it is. But at the end of the day, I used truly, I used in that moment a lot of the tools that I had learned to detach myself from World Championships and say like, Okay, you know what?

Chari (00:46:37):
Like I made world’s indoor. I am a world-class heptathlete. This has nothing to do with me and this has everything to do with circumstance and everything happens for a reason. My, I do not have a dream that is dead right now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, everything is okay. You know, And I would never have been able to have that mindset without this. Like never, I would’ve cried and I would’ve been mad at everybody and I would’ve fallen into this deep, dark depression. But instead I was like, everything happens for a reason. I was actually still able to go to World Championships because, not to compete unfortunately, but, um, the World Championships, when they found out that I didn’t qual that I didn’t end up making it, asked me to host one of their shows that they were doing. So it ended up being like, amazing. It was a great experience and I think it all worked out. Like I said, everything happens for a reason. And, um, it’s so interesting because with our sport, it’s so easy to attach ourselves to our sport and to let it be life and death and learning that it is something that we love to do and it’s not who we are is like a game changing and it’s hard to do, but you can learn it and there’s a process. So it’s really cool.

Brad (00:47:50):
Yeah. It’s especially hard to do, I think because in many ways the athletes are exploited for our personal entertainment and the sponsors and the fans. And that part is, uh, a little disturbing for me because, um, you know, it’s, it’s tough enough being an athlete and then when we, you know, overly celebrate you when you succeed and then give you your space, quote unquote, um, that’s a good lesson for all listeners. Like, you know, approach an athlete who just failed and say, Hey, how you doing? You know, are you gonna go get some ribs for dinner? It’s not, uh, it doesn’t have to be life or death unless everyone walks around on eggshells and, um,

Chari (00:48:30):
Right.

Brad (00:48:30):
Uh, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a tough one. But I think, uh, if I can offer some like reflection here at this advanced age of 57 years old, decades removed from my career as a triathlete, now all my results are in a file folder in the back of a file cabinet.

Brad (00:48:47):
And so they have virtually no significance to my everyday life except as memories and, uh, the ups and downs and even the, even the great triumphs and especially the failures, uh, they’re, they’re inconsequential. And today, like when I sneak into the track and field facility during Covid and bring my own standards and throw ’em over the fence and clear the high jump bar and scream, it’s the same feeling inside as when I won the national championships and triathlon was on ESPN and getting a big check and being celebrated by sponsors and, and getting all this attention. And so it’s really what’s inside that matters. And I’m saying this because like, hey, you didn’t make whatever team you were hoping to or compete in this big event, but if you go and win the Chari Training Invitational at the Chula Vista track in front of 12 adoring fans and set a new PR that might be a milestone in your life that you’d never forget and can carry as just as much significance as this overhyped uh, Olympic dream that the athletes are forced to buy into because we’ve choked it down their throats with marketing dollars.

Brad (00:49:56):
And that, that part’s silly to me. Where, um, why are the Olympics more important than you setting a PR at the season opener? Um, you know, all comers at Heptathlon.

Chari (00:50:08):
Yeah, it is, um, that is a good point and it is so crazy because, um, just the way I think that people love seeing people do amazing things, right? But they’ve created such a pressure cooker Yeah. That, um, there are people who are just incredible, but it is stifling if, um, if you are given too much space from whether it’s space from your sponsors decide to give you space, um, and like sometimes

Brad (00:50:46):
Space with a, a letter saying, you’re, you’re done. And oh

Chari (00:50:50):
My gosh, yeah, welcome, welcome to my 2021 after I didn’t make the Olympic team. It happens. People give you space, they really do. Um, and, uh, it’s, it’s really hard. It’s really hard to, um, detach yourself from a sport that everybody attaches you to. Um, so it’s not just you attaching yourself to it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but other people are attaching you to it. And, um, I think like also if like I have any athletes watching, I would probably say like, um, when I say like be 3 dimensional, um, like cuz track is so fun and it’s something that you love to do. Um, but how else can you bring value to the world? You know, like how else you know, you, um, you’re, uh, incredible. You were a professional triathlete. Like you’re a, you’re like an incredible high jumper. Like you have a Top 10 podcast right now, like, that’s incredible.

Chari (00:51:47):
Like all of these things, like, there’s so much that you’ve accomplished. But at the end of the day, like what brings you value is like what you give to others. Like, this podcast is amazing and like the reason why it’s so cool to get that feat is because you’re reaching so many people and you’re helping them, right? Like, that’s like milestones. Like, um, with my social media, I hit a new milestone with, um, my follower account, which was really exciting. But at the end of the day, like, what I really think is that it’s exciting that I love teaching on my platform. I love sharing on my platform and I love helping people. And like the more people that follow me, the more people I get to help. And that’s what matters. Like, how can you take what you’re doing right now in track and field?

Chari (00:52:35):
How can you give it back to other people? Because at the end of the day, like if that is the, what’s important. The winning isn’t going to be as much because when you fall, you can help other people. You can use your story to help people who fall, because we all fall. And so if your story is gonna help somebody else get back up, like it’s a blessing that you felt because you’re gonna get back up. You, you’re some, I I may as well fall because I know I’m gonna get back up. And by me getting back up, I can help others get up as well. And, um, it’s, yeah, it’s so incredible to like be an Olympian and be an Olympic champion and be a world record holder and like that is so incredible. And it’s should be absolutely something that you wanna strive to be.

Chari (00:53:22):
Every time you’re doing something, you should step up and try to be the best at it. But how can you also use what you’re doing to bring value to the world and to, um, be valuable in like, more ways than just like, wow, you’re, you’re amazing to watch because you’re just like so incredible. It’s like, wow. Like you make me wanna be a better person. You know, you want make me wanna work harder as an athlete, You make me want to forgive myself more. And I think that that’s what I inevitably have learned to hope to accomplish. And it’s allowed me a lot to kind of detach, which has been super helpful.

Brad (00:54:05):
Yeah, that’s, that’s very well said. And it, it occurs to me that maybe, uh, some of the, the greatest athletes that we worship who have just sailed through life as number one and never really had this tremendous adversity and don’t know what a anxiety attack is and just keep winning, racking up gold medals and, and titles. Um, sometimes they’re the ones that have difficulty adjusting. And, um, I’m thinking of Michael Phelps cause he shared, you know, all his struggles and all he did was win 24 gold medals. He didn’t have to like, recalibrate and maybe, uh, reflect on how he’s possibly giving back more or how he could, you know, change course because he’s just racking up more titles. And so maybe it’s a gift that, um, not everything comes easy, uh, especially in your athletic story. And you made a nice transition there. Cause I wanna talk about how you’ve um, uh, you know, become, uh, the consummate professional as an athlete and really, um, leveraged your, the hard work that you do to connect with this community and your sensational Instagram account, which you can, you can tell us what milestone you hit, but it’s some of the best content out there.

Brad (00:55:14):
And to realize that you’re actually a real athlete. When I first stumbled upon it, I’m like, wait, this girl’s a world level competitor? Cuz there’s a lot of professionals on Instagram that are monetizing that look great. They have all the lighting and the fashion. And here you’re doing sort of a similarly professional, uh, offering, but you’re also an actual athlete.

Chari (00:55:36):
Yeah, I mean, really, so what ha how this, how my Instagram even got started, to be honest, is my coach was, uh, when I was in Santa Barbara, my coach was super like, Hey, you need a training journal. And I just would forget my training journal or I just wouldn’t wanna write in it. And I love training journals now, right? I love them. I talk about them in my, um, in my experience that I created. Um, but, um, I love them, but I, back then I was just like, this is not it. So I used my Instagram cause I had no followers on Instagram. It was like my mom, like, Hey mom <laugh>. And um, and I was like, I’m just going to use my Instagram for my training journal and I’m gonna kind of, I’m gonna get like my top video, um, that I did that I really liked, that I wanna remember and I’m gonna post it.

Chari (00:56:33):
And then I’m gonna say all the things that I learned. And so that way when it’s time for me to high jump next, I can pull up my last Instagram post on high jump and I can just kind of go through, like, I can watch what I did cause I’m a, I’m a really visual and like be like, okay, like yes, I loved that I did that. And then it was like, look at the knee drive, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that’s kind of like how it started. Um, and then I had the Olympic trials in 2016 and I, threw the javelin, it like ricocheted off my head and it like went like, and then it, and then that went viral. Um, and it’s so interesting because it did not go viral in a good way. It wasn’t like a funny, like, oh my gosh, that’s so crazy. It was like, this girl’s a waste of an athlete. Like imagine choking this hard at the Olympic trials. Like, um, like all this stuff. But what I did is I just was like, Yeah, I know we should like, we should like murder her. You know, like I would just like, like from my own account, I would just like, I know I hate her. Cause um, you know, I like, she’s so annoying. Like, go

Brad (00:57:36):
With the flow. Go with the flow.

Chari (00:57:37):
And it was just like, it was just like really funny. It was like light and whatever. And uh, it like kind of turned into like this like hilarious like, um, me kind of like teasing myself while I’m doing my little practice journals. And then I made my first team usa and that was just kind of like where it like kind of took off. And so it turned from me just doing my training journals to me showing you how I’m doing things mm-hmm. <affirmative> and kind of turning in from like a, me coaching myself and reflecting on my practices to me coaching others. And so it’s so fun. I love it. Um, I, like I said, I have my degree, my degree in education, both my Master’s and my Bachelor’s. And, uh, and yeah, it was just like really fun and, uh, I’ve loved it.

Chari (00:58:27):
It’s been like a blast. I actually, I’m also on TikTok and so TikTok is like a super fun community too. And, uh, I’m on, I’m hopefully I’m gonna be able to start my YouTube a little bit more. I do, I am on YouTube already and I have like all of my like in depth tutorials and stuff on there, but hopefully we’ll be able to do some blogging soon and all that kind of stuff. But it is like, you know, but it’s like a full time job to like get that done. And I don’t have, like, I have like, I have some people on my team, but like, I don’t have like a whole team yet. So a lot of it’s done by like my own self. And so, uh, it’s a, it’s a whole, it’s a whole full-time job, but it is really fun to, to be able to do.

Brad (00:59:10):
So tell us how that works. You can, you can talk about your specifics as much as you’re comfortable, but just in general, um, it’s, it’s not a easy sport to, uh, sustain a professional career mm-hmm. <affirmative> and make a large income unless you’re really a top winner. And so what kind of opportunities have you leveraged, uh, off the track whereby, you know, we know about the shoe contracts and if you win, you get a few bucks and if you don’t, you get a letter that, um, you know, that that dumps you out. And so, um, it seems as though you’re, you’re putting all this effort into, um, your, your public image. Hopefully you’re leveraging that and able to, um, you know, bring in appropriate partners that allow you to live the lifestyle and, and continue to compete professionally. But what’s it like for, um, maybe some of your peers who aren’t doing that and are just relying on results? How does that look? And then how have you, uh, seen some other opportunities?

Chari (01:00:07):
Yeah, so I wasn’t, I’m, I was, um, fortunate enough to start kind of, um, supplementing just being able to live in California and like being able to pay my rent, um, in 2019. So, and I joined i the professional circuit in 2016. So my biggest thing, if I were to like, give advice to somebody who was like, I need a job, I would say, Okay, first of all, I need you to start working on your social media. Like trying to bring it up so that that can be something that you can help supplement your income with. Um, and the second thing that I would say is still find a nanny job. Um, because that’s what I, I just was a nanny and a babysitter when I was young. And my undergrad is in education, but it’s in child also, it’s in family consumer science. So child childcare and education was part of that.

Chari (01:00:57):
And so, um, I, and I’m also the youngest of five kids and I’ve been an aunt since I was 12. So I love, love, love, love children. The way that people are like, Oh, can I hang out with your dog? I’d be like, Can I have your child like <laugh>? Like, I love love, love love, love kids. Um, so, uh, my biggest thing was I had a, a seven year old girl that I would pick up after school. So I would have practice in the morning, we’d be done by, um,1:30. I’d pick her up at three 30 and her and I would just hang out. I’d help her with her homework. It’s really chill. Like, well, we’d watch a movie every once in a while, we’d go to the beach. Like it was super chill. She has stuff to do, you know what I mean? So you can, I taught her how to foam roll and we foam rolled together, you know, like do all the,

Brad (01:01:42):
Taught her how to high jump or take it some approaches, teter how to load the bar again, if it

Chari (01:01:47):
Gets knocked off. Yep. We’ll do, oh, like let’s stretch, you know, let’s do some yoga. Like, like it’s super, um, adjustable. And um, it helped me, I mean, it put me through two years of living in Santa Barbara and then I also ended up, I’m like a, I’m a big saver with my money. And so I was able to pay for my, Master’s degree in cash. No, I didn’t have to take out a loan or anything. So, um, it was definitely like a sustainable job that I was able to hold. And then on the, the weekends I would babysit for another family and I was able to rest, do what I needed to do. Cuz we talked about earlier, um, before we started about how when we compete and we’re training and we’re going, like, sometimes we just need to be like, you know, we, we cannot be like, so mentally going, going, going.

Chari (01:02:40):
I remember I had a teammate who, she was a waitress, um, and so she would just be a waitress and she made great money, but she would come to practice, she’d be exhausted, she got hurt all year. You know, it was really tricky for her. So my my thing is always just like, if you can do social media, that is the best because you can find partners who are not only invested in like you and they want you to be like successful, but like they, they wanna like, they wanna help you on your journey. Like, how can we help you get better? You know? And so those are like, that’s like always just such a great, um, a, a great thing. And I always, anytime an athlete comes to me and is like, Hey, how can I do that? Like, I’m like, let’s talk, let’s talk. I I wanna help you. Like I, well

Brad (01:03:28):
Maybe you can open a consulting operation for other athletes. I like that. Let me ask are, it doesn’t seem like there’s that many elite level athletes that are doing what you’re doing.

Chari (01:03:37):
It’s, it’s hard. I think that’s like, um, a lot of people because you’re not guaranteed to make money with it. And so a lot of athletes, like they could spend, you know, um, five hours on their off day, um, batching content for, for the next week. They could absolutely do that, but they also have to, they have to work. They, they have to find a way to make money. So it’s, it is hard. Like I, I felt, uh, I feel really lucky that, um, while I was in England, I was able to build up a little bit of a following and so that when I came back to America, like I could really focus on it and I could make it like a priority for me. Um, but it is, it is difficult. Like I think that’s why a lot of people aren’t doing it is because, um, if you wanna post every day, like the best way to do it is just on your off day.

Chari (01:04:28):
Like hire a photographer and go batch a lot of content back to back to back to back. And then, um, that way you can have content for the week. Um, that’s probably like the best advice I could give, but it’s tricky. It’s tough. Um, and then staying active, you know, we’re so, um, sometimes, um, I’ll be like, Oh man, like I didn’t get anything for my stories for PR practice. I was so in it, I was just so focused, like I wasn’t paying attention. Um, and that it’s, it’s tough. It’s, you really have to have it on my front of mind, but at the same time, I really do like everything that I can to when I’m here, I’m here. I’m not like, something you’ll notice is I don’t, when I don’t have a lot of stuff of me like out with friends or like out with my husband or like anything like that because I try to put my phone down when I’m with my family, <laugh> when I’m with, if I’m doing like super exciting things, phone down. Like if somebody happens to get a video of me doing something fun and they send it to me, like maybe I’ll post it.

Chari (01:05:31):
But like, I wanna make sure that I am unplugged as much as possible while still giving as much information as I can and helping as many people as I can. It is a balance for sure.

Brad (01:05:42):
Well, you’re doing a great job and I suppose that you now have partners that, um, appreciate your social media contribution as well as your performance. So they’re, it it’s more of a all encompassing partnership rather than looking at your, I mean, I’ve seen those ridiculous contracts where, uh, a professional track and field athlete, even a high level one, you know, you’ll, you’ll have a, a bonus schedule first, second, third in, in major competitions and it’s still not that much money compared to the amount of attention they bring. And then if you’re not performing, um, you’re, you’re pretty much getting free boxes of shoes. So it seems like you’d be way more valuable than someone who may or may not be contending for a medal and might be off the back the next, the next year. And, um,

Chari (01:06:28):
I think it definitely like lowers the stress. Um, because when I, when I do, you know, talk to companies about potentially, um, sponsoring me, um, and I say this to all of my, the consultant, you know, um, all of my, like my, I guess my peers cuz it’s a lot of heptathletes, and every once in a while I’ll get a high jumper or I’ll get a like that that’ll contact me, but I’m like, I get so excited to help because it is, it is a struggle out there. So I will not gate keep any information. Like my biggest thing is, um, I always like to, um, within the contracts now is just like talk about like, okay, like, um, with social media, like let’s, let’s keep it on the social media side if we can because I don’t need, I don’t need anymore. I put enough stress on myself, you know, like as athletes would, we, all we do is train.

Chari (01:07:19):
So it’s like we put enough stress on ourselves, we don’t need our sponsors doing that for us. We need our sponsors in the background with sign saying, Oh, Chari, you know, like, um, we don’t need them to be like, all right, like, what did you get her time as? You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. We need them, we need them cheering for us, like our own parents would cheer for us. And so it definitely takes a lot of pressure off and any athlete that’s looking to, you know, get sponsors, like I would say always work on your performance, but work on your performance for you, you know, work on your performance like so that you can be better so that you can progress because that’s what you want out of life. You want continued progression, like, you know, um, and that’s why I work so hard instead of I’m working hard so I can get a, a sponsor. Like my advice would be work hard on the social media aspect mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, um, then work hard in your sports because of you, because you’ll get a lot better results if you do that. You’ll have a lot more fun if you do that. You’ll have a lot less stress if you do that. And then, yeah. And, and your contracts will be more fun, uh, when it’s on the social media side than versus when it’s on the performance aspect. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there’s a lot less pressure.

Brad (01:08:33):
Love it. Fantastic. Yeah. The relationship can extend even through if you’re done competing. That’s how the best brand ambassadors are. Of course. That’s

Chari (01:08:43):
A good point.

Brad (01:08:43):
So you’ve created this incredible learning opportunity and I, I think we should, um, and with the description of how this, how this whole thing came about and what it’s all about, but before we get there, a meter point 85 in the high jump, I wanna know how the heck you can jump that high, which is such an amazing accomplishment.

Chari (01:09:05):
I’m gonna show you something. Okay. You’re watching on video. I, I jumped 180,

Brad (01:09:10):
She was on the move people,

Chari (01:09:10):
So I jumped 184 when I was, um,

Brad (01:09:14):
What’s that in inches, uh, feet ?and

Chari (01:09:16):
So 185 is, uh, 6 1, 184 is like six, six feet and something.

Brad (01:09:23):
So you’re well over your head

Chari (01:09:24):
And you can see this little line. Oh yeah.

Brad (01:09:26):
She’s got a mark on the wall people.

Chari (01:09:29):
This line, this line was where I, um, where I was, um, looking almost every day because during the pandemic I didn’t have access to any track facilities. Mm. So I couldn’t get on a high jump pit. And, um, my PB was 183 at the time, and I hadn’t jumped 183 since I was in college. Um, I had jumped 182, I jumped 181 a bunch of times, but just like couldn’t. Oh, you know what I mean? Um, but then at the Olympic trials, I, I didn’t have a track, so I couldn’t practice jumping. So I would visualize that line and I would jump and I would jump and I would jump and I cleared, um, 184 at the Olympic trials on my first attempt.

Brad (01:10:18):
Your first attempt. Unbelievable

Chari (01:10:21):
Clean, clean bar up until then. And that was a huge, that was like when I first started using like genuine mental training. Uh, like probably I had probably started working my, my with my sports psychologist on that and like really started like working on like things and practicing things for the first time, uh, like maybe six weeks earlier. So it was a huge deal. And that, that tape that I showed you, um, that was, uh, that’s 193. So that’s like my hairy scary goal of like, that I would love, love, love to jump, which I think 193 is six three, so it’s only two inches higher than what like, I’m jumping now. So it’s like, it’s doable. Okay.

Brad (01:11:07):
If you say so. I love it.

Chari (01:11:09):
All right. But you can see, you can see like where I was and like where it was above my head head. So that’s like the, that’s the bar that like, I’m coming, I’m coming for you. So

Brad (01:11:19):
Maybe we should get an artist to paint a, a beautiful mural or get one of those fat head posters, you know, those cut out things that used to be popular.

Chari (01:11:26):
Yes. Yeah.

Brad (01:11:26):
Let’s get you high jumping. Real, real life. Yeah. Life size. Yeah.

Chari (01:11:30):
Yeah. That’s fun. I love it. But yeah, no, so yeah, there’s just a lot of like, just silly things like that. Um, and learning how to get into the flow state. I talk about like a lot. I talk about that in my program. And um, there was a lot of stuff that helped me, um, mainly be consistent in the high jump. Um, so this year, uh, was when I jumped 185. I jumped 184 at the trials. Um, but to jump the 185, it was so interesting because, um, I had jumped 184 at the Olympic trials and then the next year I was jumping 184, I was jumping 184, I was jumping 184, jumped 185. And it’s just so interesting how, um, with it was, I went years, I jumped 183 and then I went years without jumping 183 3again. And it’s like now I’m finding myself with like that mental training, the learning how to get into the flow state, all that kind of stuff. Like I’m finding myself just continuing to get better and continuing to stay consistent. And I think that that’s like the most exciting thing is when you’re like finding yourself like, Oh, is all this work I’m doing paying off like <laugh>? So it’s really exciting.

Brad (01:12:49):
Amazing. What’s, uh, here about this opportunity that we have to learn about mental training with you?

Chari (01:12:55):
Okay, so I have talked a lot about it, um, about like my journey with mental health and how, you know, when I worked with sports psychologists, it was super random. People were coming up to me like, How do I get started? And I was like, I have no idea. So I created 30 days with Chari, so it’s very well named cuz it explained it a lot. <laugh>, it’s 30 days of mental training exercises. And basically I teach you that one plus one is two before I teach you that two plus two, two times two is four, you know, kind of a thing. You, you have to learn step one before you can learn step 30 Mm. And every day there’s gonna be basically three things. There’s gonna be a podcast where I just kind of teach you, um, the tool that I learned what it is, how we can use it, um, and I give you very concrete steps, very like step one, step two, step three, so that you can practice it for yourself.

Chari (01:13:50):
And it’s not just like, you know, when people talk about positive self talk, Um, and at the end of the day, like that’s a really, it’s one of the tools that I talk about, but I give you how to do positive self talk, how you can actually recreate it for yourself. So that’s kind of what the podcast is me talking about that. Then afterwards, I give you what I’m, what I call an everyday amazing challenge. And it’s a challenge that, um, really allows you to practice the tool. Um, but it also helps rewire your brain a little bit so that when you say that you’re gonna do something, you actually follow through. So over 30 days you’re gonna accept a challenge and you’re gonna follow through with that challenge, and you’re gonna basically retrain your brain that when you accept something, you do it.

Chari (01:14:35):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, just kind of like giving you that, um, thing. And then afterwards, um, after that, the third thing we do is we do a daily burn. So it’s just a little quick hit workout, um, where, where we just practice the tool that we did. Like you might wanna quit, but remember mm-hmm. <affirmative> today we’re talking about da da. And so I want you to tap into that right now and I want you to finish this strong kind of a thing. So we do like a fun little workout. So you get a podcast, you get a challenge, you get a workout, and we’re gonna do that for 30 days.

Brad (01:15:07):
And how do we, uh, enroll in this? Where do we find it?

Chari (01:15:10):
So it’s gonna be at Charihawkins.com and my name is spelled C H A R I. Chari hawkins.com. And, uh, there’ll be like a video so you can check out like a little bit more behind like how I got into it and um, just, uh, more explanation. And, um, it’s super easy to sign up. You created, you sign up, you create a login, a username, a password, and you have your own dashboard and you actually can have the dashboard for free. You don’t actually have to buy the program to have the dashboard and just with the dashboard, it’s, it’s just as like it says Hi Brad. And then, um, it’ll have a quote every day from me. Um, so you can, if you wanna do that, that’s free. And then, um, if you wanna get the program later, you can absolutely do that as well. Mm. Um, but yeah, so super exciting and um, really fun and I think it’ll be like a challenging thing, whether you’re somebody who wants to learn about, you know, mental training and you’re competitive athlete that wants to get better. Or whether you’re just somebody who loves personal progression, loves, uh, like getting better in any capacity or just like wants to do a fun little challenge for 30 days. Like, it’s a really, really fun one. And if you have like a goal in mind that you’re like, I’d love to get this done in 30 days, it’s a great goal accelerator and helping you to kind of get that goal, um, ready to go to keep you on task, all that good stuff. So it’s really fun.

Brad (01:16:36):
Love. It sounds fantastic. I can’t wait to share the information, get people signing up. And for you, it’s a good time to be an elite track and field athlete cuz we got, we got stuff in the mix here with the, um, the, the delays caused by quarantine. We’ve had an Olympics, we’ve had a world to now right in front of our face next year we’ve got another World and another Olympics. Yeah.

Brad (01:16:57):
What are your plans for the 23 24?

Chari (01:16:58):
It’s very Busy.

Brad (01:17:00):
What are your plans?

Chari (01:17:02):
So my biggest thing for me is I start my season in October, so I’m really excited. Training starts in October, October 10th, and we’ll go do indoor, we’ll do out there door. And what I promised myself after 2021 is that I was only gonna take things one year at a time. And, mostly because I asked myself three questions at the end of every year. Um, is this still genuinely fun? Am I still enjoying this? Am I still getting better? Like truly am I still getting better? Because if I feel like I’ve reached my fullest potential and I am the best that I could be truly, like I’m good. Like I have so many, there’s so many wonderful things to do in this life, and I’m like, I’d be willing to hang my hat on that. But am I still getting better?

Chari (01:17:51):
And um, does it still make sense for like my life? Um, I’m 31 years old. Um, I have a husband, I’m not sure where our plans are for like, when we wanna start a family or if we wanna start a family. We both have family. We’re in California, we have family in Utah and Idaho, and where do we wanna live? Do we wanna be close to family? Like right now, this life makes absolute sense for us, but we also, I wanna take into consideration, you know, life. And I always say like, life is too important not, um, to take it too seriously. And same with track. Like it’s all like we, we don’t wanna take it too seriously, but at the same time, like we genuinely wanna make sure that, you know, we’re not, I’m not making track the only thing that could ever be positive in my life, you know? Sure. It’s important to, and I actually like for you, like when you decided to retire, like what was kind of the deciding factor for that?

Brad (01:18:45):
Oh my gosh, listen, people, you have a future in TV in podcast hosting, it’s just is such a joy to connect with you. And I love throwing these questions back at me. Fortunately for me it was like getting my ass kicked was the, um, the way my, my path out of the sport with a clean slate and no unfinished business. And so I feel like in, in some cases it might be difficult to go out on top because it’s like, then you’re like a surfer. Uh, you know, you had the greatest wave of the day. You’re not gonna go in into the shore on the great wave. You’re gonna be wanting to go for more and more and then you’re gonna sit out there and, and, uh, it’s not gonna, Yeah, right. You’re gonna be, that’s the end of the set. You’re, you’re just wasting another 30 minutes.

Brad (01:19:26):
So for me, I think, um, it, it was revealed that I had hit my peak, but when you’re at your peak, you never know. You’re at your peak. You’re just thinking, how can I get faster and, uh, win win by a little greater of a margin or whatever. You start to get greedy or all these things that are driving you continued forward. But then when you hit a peak and come down, and I remember in training because you know, we’re in, we’re in a career that’s so graphic and intense where you learn the lessons of success and failure right in front of your face. Um, you know, I, I know that I could run from the river to the green gate at the top of the trail 15 minutes and four seconds at my best when I went and won races on international circuit.

Brad (01:20:08):
And when I look at my watch a couple years later and I’m at 16:22, I’m like, Okay, well that’s, um, a little, a little indicator that I’m gonna go get my butt kicked. And, um, it’s a really beautiful, graceful thing to experience that, you know, um, I, I’ve had my run and now I face reality and you know, it’s gonna come every day for an athlete sometimes by surprise. B,ut it’s okay. And again, just going back to what, what seems to be your, the, the great takeaway from your journey that it’s all about the process. So yeah. Um, as long asking those three questions seems like a wonderful tool for all athletes rather than just blindly for forging ahead and not thinking things through especially the, um, the, the fun part. And, um, a youth coach told me this once where, um, the most important thing is not to have fun in youth sports.

Brad (01:20:59):
That’s what everyone says as a, as a throwaway line. The most important thing is to give the youth a personal growth experience cuz they, the kids can go have fun, uh, throwing water balloons at the park and, uh, you know,

Chari (01:21:12):
good point.

Brad (01:21:13):
Not not anything organized or having that competitive aspect. And so what we’re going, going for, especially in elite sport where you’re dedicating your, your heart and soul to it is that personal growth aspect of it. And yeah, it’s not always fun, um, recovering from your gnarly ankle surgery, I’m sure it was no fun at all until you got back and got over your first high bar.

Chari (01:21:35):
Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah, that’s a really good point. Well I have another question. When you, uh, were finished, did you go through like a depressive spout where you were a little lost?

Brad (01:21:48):
Uh, possibly. Uh, heading toward the, the finish when I’m seeing the writing on the wall, it was rough and, and super frustrating to realize that despite my best efforts, I’d already reached my peak and was on the other side of it. And you know what, Chari, was super valuable for me, were a couple wise ass people in my life that told me the straight scoop rather than, um, holding the pompoms and cheerleading, which like you relate, we really, really need that, right? And we surround ourselves with this winning team that are supporting and encouraging us all times no matter what. Even if you get your butt kicked and you’re not looking so good. Um, but, you know, I’d have a couple friends, one of ’em in particular in Aussie by the name of Pita, and he lives in San Diego, so he’s your neighbor. And he’d call me up after my races and he’d say, Kearns you suck now <laugh>, I remember when you were great. I remember when you dropped all those guys after the bike ride and went off on the 10 k and won by two minutes. Now look at you, you got fricking seventh and those guys aren’t that good in front of you. You suck. Goodbye. And he’d hang up <laugh> and it would be fun, loving and lighthearted, but deep down that

Chari (01:22:59):
Would make me cry for days.

Brad (01:23:01):
Yeah. I mean, deep down he was right and he was the only one out of the next hundred phone calls, emails, whatever words of encouragement. Um, and he, he he’d do it over and over. And then I remember at the end of this was my, my last year when I was really, um, just hanging on by a thread, you know, and I finally won a race, but it was a podunk race. It wasn’t like a major, major thing, but I was, you know, still satisfied when you win a race, you win a race. And I was like, I can’t wait till he calls tomorrow and congratulates the winner. And he calls up and he goes, Who was second? Eh, never heard of him. Who was third? No, never heard of him. Who was fourth? Never heard of him. You beat nobody. You wanted nothing race. Goodbye. <laugh> again, he was spot on. Like he was exactly calling out beyond all the fanfare that I could report to my sponsors that I wanna race. No, I beat a bunch of nobodys. And, um, to see that, you know, that honesty and that reality, um, that’s, you know, that’s, it’s a, it’s a gift.

Chari (01:23:57):
Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. Um, I, I agree with some of it <laugh>, but because that would literally crush me forever. But like, uh, I’m a sensitive soul though, to be fair. Um, but yeah, I know, me too.

Brad (01:24:11):
Sorry. I mean, honestly, um, you know, everyone likes that support and encouragement and sometimes it’s rough to hear, hear the truth, but I think especially like with your coaches, um, they’re not gonna be blowing smoke, uh, to an elite level performer. They’re gonna say, Hey, you’re not getting that, uh, that that curve right on your high jump. I wanna see you lean in more or whatever it is. Oh yeah. You know? Yeah,

Chari (01:24:34):
Yeah. No, no, it’s true. And the thing is, is I guess, I guess I had kind of the opposite story because I was told to retire back in, in 2017. Um, and so like in my mind I’m like, don’t listen to, don’t listen to anybody, you know what I mean? But at the same time, like it is important to also like what you said, like you were being greedy, right? Be like being able to really look at yourself and say like, in terms of potential and in terms of hope, like what’s the difference? You know? And I think that that is like the biggest thing when I’m done with the year. Like, like not what do I hope I can do, but what do I know I can actually do and do I feel like I can still get better? You know? And I think that that’s like the biggest thing for me, but I ask, I like, um, because I don’t know, you know, am I gonna go through 2024?

Chari (01:25:21):
Am I gonna like get another big growth like spurt of like energy? You just never know, right? But, um, that’s why I’ve been asking like a lot of questions, just the way that I asked when I went into professional career. I ask a lot of questions and everybody that I’ve talked to has said, you know, it was about a year where I was really depressed and year two I started to kind of get my bearings. And so for me, like what I’m trying to do is, is find, you know, I, like I said, I think that what’s happening is people are losing their dream. And so I’m trying to find my dream that has nothing to do with track. Track is a goal in pursuit of my dream, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I think that’s like what I’m trying and what I’m trying to do is like not detach myself from track because you have to be pretty attached to track if you’re gonna do it full time.

Chari (01:26:11):
Like, I mean, when season starts, like I am tunnel vision when season starts and I love it. I love being tunnel vision. Yeah. Um, I’m so excited. I adore track. I love love, love track, I love learning and I love growing, I love progressing all that stuff. Um, but uh, in terms of just this whole life and I’m so grateful for it, and maybe I’ll be doing it through 2024, hopefully that is the case. And um, but I know I’m gonna do it through 2023. Um, so that’s like what I’m gonna be focused on and it’s gonna be super great and I’m gonna continue, you know, asking questions and pushing my mind and training my brain and getting to the space that I need to be so that at the end of the day I can hang my hat on everything I do. And I’m not just talking about like, hang my hat on a track career, but hang my hat on a practice, hang my hat on a competition, hang my hat on, just like this life, what I do, like the meals I eat, everything like that I can hang my hat and say like, I genuinely feel like this is one step closer to the best version of Chari that I could possibly be.

Chari (01:27:15):
So, uh, yeah, that’s the, I don’t know, I don’t know if that’s a good place to end or what, but like it’s Yeah,

Brad (01:27:22):
Very well said. What a, what a wonderful interview. Way more than I could have dreamed of. Speaking of dreams, I mean, it’s just a privilege to talk to a real live elite athlete, but someone with so much depth and, uh, all that, you know, desire to contribute and give back. I’m gonna tell listeners to go right now to follow you on underscore Chari Hawkins on Instagram, some of the best stuff out there, and we’ll put all the links to your course and how to connect with you in the show notes. So everybody, thank you so much, Chari, great to connect and good luck. We’ll be watching you and then

Chari (01:27:55):
In the years ahead. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you so much. And we gotta keep talking, we gotta keep talking about this year cuz I know that you’re just always like learning about like nutrition and you’re always like learning new things and I mean, I’m an elite athlete. I wanna make sure that I’m capitalizing, optimizing as much as I can. So we’ll say for

Brad (01:28:13):
Sure. Well, if we can have you back sometime, I’m sure we got plenty more things to talk about.

Chari (01:28:17):
Oh, I would love that. I would love literally nothing more than just like, pick your brain and I’ll be the interviewer next time.

Brad (01:28:22):
Oh my gosh, how fun. Chari Hawkins, everybody bringing it, da da da da. Thank you for listening to the show. I love Charing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support. Please email podcast@brad ventures.com with feedback, suggestions, and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list at bradkearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list and if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with Apple Podcasts or wherever else you listen to the shows, that would be super incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the B.rad podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember, B.rad.

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