Today’s hard-hitting episode, a rebroadcast of a show with my friend and leading world expert on ancestral living Dr. Cate Shanahan, will have you reconsidering the efficacy and necessity of many conventional cancer treatments, especially when you hear Dr. Cate’s explanation of what she would do if she received a cancer diagnosis tomorrow (and the answer will probably surprise you!).

Referencing the work of Dr. Thomas Seyfried, Dr. Cate explains in this episode that cancer is actually a metabolic disease, rather than a genetic disease. This implies that instead of aggressive chemo and radiation treatments designed to attack cancer at the genetic level, dietary modification could be the most effective strategy. This aligns with the Warburg Effect principle, which suggests cancer cells feed preferentially on glucose over regular cells. The idea is that starving cancer cells of glucose with fasting and ketogenic eating patterns makes it possible to shrink tumors and heal. To put it simply, metabolic diseases are most effectively treated through metabolic treatments— there is another avenue you can take to prevent and/or minimize your cancer risk, as Dr. Cate explains during this show.

TIMESTAMPS:

There is another avenue to explore when you get a cancer diagnosis. [01:46]

Cancer is a metabolic disease rather than a genetic disease. [03:46]

The Warburg Effect observes that cancer cells feed preferentially on glucose. [08:46]

What is Dr. Cate’s new job that brought her to Florida? She left the hospital job because her main interest is keeping people healthy.  [10:47]

The current system is not keeping people healthy. It boils down to the primary care doctor. [18:32]

There is a new method of primary care that can be a more personal relationship with the patient and save money.  [23:33]

False positives can be deadly. There are many different ways to look at what cancer is. [24:45]

There was much good research in the 1930s and 1940s learning about cancer and much of that has been forgotten. [32:46]

If Brad got a cancer diagnosis today, the first thing she would suggest he do would be to go over the diet to see if he was doing something wrong and watch a video by Dr. Seyfried. [36:32]

Are all cancers the same? They are all downstream of metabolism. [43:12]

Doctors who are studying cancers have varied opinions on the frequency of testing. [48:39]

People are so confused. Who do you listen to? [50:09]

The four pillars of human nutrition are fresh foods, fermented foods, meat on the bone, and organ meats. [52:05]

Other than diet, we still must look at daily movement and good sleep habits. The vegetable oils promote cancer. [56:47]

Canola oil is molecularly unstable and when you have too much of it in your diet, it destabilizes the DNA in your body. [01:00:02]

Would it be undisputed that a dietary modification leading to increased HDL and reduced triglycerides are positive? What do we learn from our blood chemistry?  [01:09:00]

LINKS:

• Brad Kearns.com
• Brad’s Shopping page
• Paleo Clinic in Hungary
• Warburg Effect
• Deep Nutrition
• Dr. Cate Shanahan
• ABC Fine Wines and Spirits
• Primal Prescription
• Cancer is a Metabolic Disease
• The Fatburn Fix
• Biology of Belief
• Ageless Body, Timeless Mind
• Ancestral Supplements

QUOTES:

• “You could have a hard drive that has a glitch, but if you have a really good operating system, you’d never know it.”
• “If you assume cancer is a death sentence, you will over diagnose and over treat it.”
• “30 to 40% of the average person’s daily calories come from what I have to call “non-food” sources of carbs and fat, and those things promote cancer.”

LISTEN: 

We appreciate all feedback, and questions for Q&A shows emailed to podcast@bradventures.com. If you have a moment, please share an episode you like with a quick text message, or leave a review on your podcast app. Thank you!

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (00:01:46):
Hi listeners. Please enjoy this rebroadcast with my friend and leading world expert on ancestral living in all matters of diet and metabolic disease. It’s Dr. Cate Shanahan. And what a trip, especially early in the show, when I ask her straight up, what would you do if you got a cancer diagnosis tomorrow, Dr. Cate, and you know what she said, quote, “I’d watch it for a while.” <laugh>, uh, boy, that would take a lot of guts. But the idea that you’re not going to rush off and get blasted with radiation and chemotherapy, that there’s another avenue to deal with cancer and especially to prevent cancer or to minimize your cancer risk. Wow. That’s a real eyeopener and it’s worth listening to this show very carefully. Yeah. Cate said she would watch it for a while. See what happens. She also said she might head over to the noted Paleo Clinic in Hungary, where they have used dietary interventions very successfully to treat various cancers.

Brad (00:02:47):
We know there’s some good research there’s mounting research that the ketogenic diet in particular can help starve the cancer cells, which we know feed preferentially off glucose over regular cells. So if you take the carbohydrate intake in your diet down to nothing, boy, that can be a, uh, an effective strategy for certain cancers. And we can’t be cavalier here. So, when you get serious and you’re, uh, looking at health challenges, you’re going to have to navigate, of course, the traditional medical world, as well as needing experts with alternative ideas. Dr. Cate references, the work of Dr. Thomas Seyfried and the strong assertion that cancer is actually a metabolic disease rather than a genetic disease. And I believe they’re talking about the 99% of cancers that one develops, strongly related to lifestyle habits rather than the genetic cancers that affect the there’s.

Brad (00:03:46):
So little bit of the total that they’re hardly worth mentioning in this conversation. So, if cancer truly is a metabolic disease, as the evidence suggests this implies that instead of aggressive chemotherapy and radiation treatment to attack cancer cells at the genetic level, dietary modification could be a very effective strategy. And what I was talking about with the cancer cells feeding preferentially, this is called the Warburg effect. This is not Brad Kearn’s idea for Tuesday, but this is a fundamental principle of cellular biology. And it’s called the Warburg Effect. So when you starve cancer cells of glucose through fasting, through ketogenic eating patterns, it is possible to shrink tumors and heal. And boy, if you think this is wacky stuff, let me tell you about the presentation I enjoyed at the keto con convention a few years ago from Alison Gannett who had advanced metastasized cancer throughout her body.

Brad (00:04:49):
And up goes her PowerPoint slide with her lungs and her reproductive organs, all flashing bright red, and she’s like, the red designates the presence of cancer. And so here’s this human riddled with cancer, and then showing the sequence of successive slides, where she went home to Colorado and started, emphasizing the naturally grown foods on her farm emerged into a strict ketogenic diet. And over the ensuing months turned all that red into green and a clean bill of health. Absolutely amazing. Of course, that’s just one story and we wanna be responsible and look at all the angles, but boy, it’s certainly, um, warrants and open mind here rather than just marching along and crossing our fingers, hoping that we won’t have the bad luck of getting that cancer diagnosis someday. And no one better to hear from than Dr. Cate on this lengthy and highly informative show. So please enjoy the rebroadcast.

Brad (00:05:52):
Oh boy. What a treat to introduce one of my favorite people in the ancestral health movement. One of the leading experts who I look to for all kinds of things, especially when she turns on her BS meter and sorts through what’s hype. And what’s legit. Her name is Dr. Cate Shanahan, one of the true catalysts of the ancestral health movement when she wrote her book Deep Nutrition back now over a decade ago. She and her husband, co-author Luke Shanahan, repackaged expanded, revised it and republished it in recent years. So it’s an absolute masterpiece of maybe 600 pages of a deep discussion about the ancestral eating patterns that can help us regain our health, especially the four pillars of human nutrition,:fresh foods, fermented foods, meat on the bone and organ meats. And when I first got into Cate’s book and talked to her in depth several years ago, I was blown away because I had the realization that I thought I was Mr.

Brad (00:06:55):
Super healthy eating guy in my completely primal aligned dietary patterns; no grains, no sugars, no bad oils, meat, fish, foul, eggs, vegetables, fruits, nuts, and seeds. And I realized that I was almost entirely deficient on three of the four pillars of human nutrition based on ancestral research per Dr. Cate Shanahan. So I had to up my game with the fermented foods, the kombucha, the yogurt, the sauerkraut, all that stuff in that category. And then also finding cuts of meat on the bone. So I could get the collagen, the gelatinous material that comes when you’re eating food near the bone, the gristle, as they say, and then finally upping my game with organ meats, which I’ve made a huge effort to in recent years. I think to my great benefit also, thanks to Brian Liver, King Johnson, for the inspiration and taking the ancestral supplements when my diet falls a little bit short.

Brad (00:07:49):
So this subject we’re focusing in on the kind of interesting topic about how to become cancer proof. How about that? Would you raise your hand if you’re interested? Yeah. I wouldn’t mind becoming cancer proof, and this is a hard hitting show. So strap on your seatbelt because if you wanna be kind and gentle and respectful to the great pillars of human health information in modern times, the AMA the federal government, Dr. Cate is gonna come out swinging and challenging many of the conventional notions we have about cancer treatment. One of my favorite moments in the discussion was when I asked her straight up, well, okay, what if you had cancer? What would you do? And she goes, well, I’d probably let it. <laugh>, I’d probably watch it grow for a while and see what happens. Maybe head over to Turkey for some experimental treatments.

Brad (00:08:46):
Yeah. This show is wild times and Dr. Cate references, the great work of Dr. Thomas Seyfried with the conclusion coming out of it, that cancer’s actually a metabolic disease rather than a genetic disease. This implies that instead of aggressive chemotherapy and radiation to attack cancer at the genetic level, dietary modification could be the most effective strategy. And we talk about the Warburg Effect. So if you’re falling behind during the commentary, in the show, you can go look up the Warburg Effect, which was discovered many years ago by a scientist suggesting, or observing that cancer cells feed preferentially on glucose. They consume glucose at a greater rate than regular cells. So the idea is that if you get cancer, you can starve those cancer cells of glucose by engaging in a ketogenic diet, aggressive fasting, this whole thing of taking your diet and turning it into a weapon rather than heading to the hospital, getting your invasive chemo and radiation treatments, and then having the orange sherbert on your plate for dessert after your, uh, busy day fighting cancer. Yeah. It’s disgraceful. What they feed people in the hospital all are the things, uh, on the sideline for a moment. So I think you’re gonna enjoy this show where I traveled to Cate’s home her new home in Florida, and sit down for an indepth discussion. Fantastic. Life-changing here we go, Dr. Cate, and learn more at Dr. Cate.com, Dr. C A T E.com.

Brad (00:10:23):
Dr. Cate Shanahan,

Cate (00:10:25):
Mr. Brad Kearns,

Brad (00:10:26):
Those of us watching on YouTube, I could say nice shirt.

Cate (00:10:31):
So well, thank you.

Brad (00:10:33):
Check us out on YouTube. Also, the background is spectacular in this video and as your new home of Florida <laugh>. So once again, we get to talk about geography. You’ve seen the best of the country.

Cate (00:10:45):
I have, I feel pretty lucky.

Brad (00:10:47):
What do you think of central Florida here?

Cate (00:10:48):
Well, I was surprised that when I came down to Orlando, the first time that they have these beautiful live Oak trees. They’re just like stunning trees. And so I love trees. And, um, that was, uh, that was the thing that enabled me to take the leap from where I was in Connecticut, which I kind of moved there for the trees as well. So <laugh>

Brad (00:11:10):
Right. We’re thinking Palm trees a hundred percent in Florida, but here in central, these magnificent trees with the moss hanging down, it’s like the movie set

Cate (00:11:19):
Spanish moss.

Brad (00:11:20):
Those are called Live Oak?

Cate (00:11:21):
The trees, the big with the ones canopy, the, yeah, the draping canopies. Those are Live Oak trees. Yeah. Yeah. They have them in California, too. They’re what the, the beautiful picturesque Oak trees, like the, you know, in, in the, when you think of Napa valley and all that kind of stuff. And, but we have, ’em decorated with a Spanish moss.

Brad (00:11:41):
Oh, decorated. I see. You have the tree decorator comes and like throws it up there and dangles it down.

Cate (00:11:46):
The Spanish moss fairies. Yeah.

Brad (00:11:48):
Oh my gosh. Also it’s cool is you’re on this beautiful lake and we’re basically the middle of the state, but I was told by boating experts yesterday that you could, if you wanted get all the way to the ocean. So we tried, we went for a few lakes and saw the whole thing with the little connecting pathways through the jungle and fantastic.

Cate (00:12:08):
Yeah. It’s beautiful. The canals they call ’em. And so there’s just like so many birds you can see and even little baby alligators.

Brad (00:12:17):
Oh yeah.

Cate (00:12:18):
And all different kinds of trees. So it’s lovely. I had no idea it was so nice down here.

Brad (00:12:23):
So do you wanna tell about your top secret job? Because it is interesting what you’re doing and what the most progressive companies in the, in the country are doing now.

Cate (00:12:32):
So I came down here to Florida. I never, in my wildest dreams imagined I would live in Florida. Um, and because I was kind of happy, like up where there’s four seasons, but one day outta the blue, uh, gentleman named Charlie Bales gave me a call and said, Hey, you know, your book Deep Nutrition. That’s pretty good. Can you come and consult for my company?

Brad (00:12:56):
Just a fanboy called you up one day <laugh> that’s it?

Cate (00:12:59):
Yeah. Wow. But he owned his own company and he was starting to get into the health insurance angle, like in the human resources department and starting to get into like the expenses and how to control the health insurance cost. And, he had implemented the principles of nutrition in Deep Nutrition, along with, you know, other things that he’d come across in sort of like having the typical journey people go on from believing like athletes go on, cuz he was an athlete from, you know, the, the low fat kind of way of thinking, and flipping that into a wait. No, it’s all that was all wrong. Let’s think of a more holistic way of, of thinking about nutrition. And so he kind of went on that journey, um, after reading deep nutrition and it, there was a radical change in not only his health, but most important to him was, his daughter. Like she had, had such severe asthma attacks that they like were constantly rushing to the emergency room.

Cate (00:14:04):
They actually built a house near to the hospital so that they wouldn’t have to get stuck in Orlandos pretty awful traffic, you know, whenever she was having an asthma attack. And, and, but since making the changes that she’s, she’s not really had that like not at all or like one zillions of whatever, <laugh> the rate of problems. And so he was so convinced, um, that it could actually really help reduce costs in his company that he’s, he just kind of cold called and said, you know, can you, what do you think you could do for me? And I was like, oh yeah, I could show you guys all, all kinds of, you know, I could teach you or I could teach your employees, but I’m not really allowed actually in my current job to do that kind of outside consulting without getting permission and on and on.

Cate (00:14:53):
And so he, but he kept like relentlessly calling to try to figure out a way to make it work. And ultimately he said, well, what if I just hire you? And like, without skipping a beat, I was like, yeah, because it kind of is like the opportunity of a lifetime for a doctor like myself. Because when I was working in the corporate hospital system, my goal of making people healthy was not in alignment with the hospital’s goal, which was taking money out of sick people <laugh> or, you know, making so that making sure people would get enough tests done so that the hospital system could kind of extract money from people, whether they were healthy or not. The matter the hospital system has found a way to extract money from both groups. And so, um, and I was tired of that and that’s kind of why I had moved all around the country because I, I was naively thinking that there was some hospital system somewhere that would ha be different.

Cate (00:16:02):
But, you know, I came to realize while I was in Connecticut, that that was not to ever come to pass. And so, when Charlie called and said, you know, you could just work for my company, um, keep people outta the hospital. Yeah. Then, you know, his company’s interests are to keep people healthy. My interest is to keep people healthy. So there’s an alignment there that I’ve never worked under before. And the experience is just like, it’s transformative. It’s like going, you know, from an abusive relationship to a totally loving relationship. I mean, it’s just like amazing. So I love this job. I love this company, ABC Fine Wines and Spirits. And, they love, they are a family and they are employees. And they wanna take care of ’em. That’s why they hired me. And even doing so there’s still so many barriers in place by like the laws even that have, uh, made it a little slower, going to get the program started. Like all, all kinds of Arisa laws and, and stuff around patient confidentiality and HIPAA and, like regulatory stuff.

Cate (00:17:12):
You can’t spend too much money on this or that. So, so many things in place to try to make it difficult for employers to really take control of the health control of healthcare that they are paying for health. Uh, healthcare in this country is pretty much 50, 50 funded by the government. Um, you know, in the military, Medicare, Medicaid, and companies, private, private companies. And, um, there needs to be a revolution in the way that private in the options that private companies have to be able to provide insurance for their employees. And that revolution is quietly, like the way that the nutrition movement was kind of building back in 2002 and 2004, was just sort of starting, there was a few doctors that were kind of doing things different. A lot of little, little bloggers and podcasts were just starting to pop up. Well, I feel like the same thing is kind of happening in the insurance health insurance world. I mean, no one ever thinks of health insurance as being exciting and having potential for a revolutionary change. But, now I do now that I know how it works and how the system works. I think that, you know, it could really save trillions of dollars <laugh> for,

Brad (00:18:30):
They’re interested in that. Yeah.

Cate (00:18:32):
Yeah.

Brad (00:18:32):
Uhhuh <affirmative>. Um, we see the billboards in California from Kaiser Permanente, the biggest provider. Yeah. And it’s all about thrive and be healthy. And they are talking about prevention and wellness and things like that. But I haven’t really seen that touchpoint in besides the billboard. I mean, they did donate to my kids’ fitness charity years ago, so they supported an healthy community activity and they’ve known to do that and sponsored the giant marathon run and things like that. So they’re in the health and wellness game, unlike previous years where they were this giant building that you go to when you’re sick. Right. But at the start you said that, you know, there was that misalignment mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I would, I would say this is not a sinister evil, you know, premeditated attempt to keep people sick. But when we, when, when you make that comment, there are some things happening that are, that are designed this way. So I wonder, like, can you expand on what’s going on that these, these, that this system is messed up and kind of pushing us in the wrong direction.

Cate (00:19:41):
It all boils down to primary care and the role of the primary care doctor.

Brad (00:19:45):
Hello, primary care doctors. <laugh> Dr. Katie, Dr. Steven. Okay.

Cate (00:19:50):
So the poor primary care doctor who really can, who’s really trained to take care of like 80% of your problems.

Brad (00:19:58):
Right, right. The gateway to the healthcare system.

Cate (00:20:01):
Yeah. The doctor who’s supposed to be, your advocate doesn’t have time for any of that anymore. We’re we get, you know, seven minutes to see you. And if you come in with, you know, a problem, we can’t solve it in seven minutes. So guess what we’re gonna do, we’re gonna refer you. So, so instead of somebody who say, let’s say they’re, like, an 80 year old, who’s a little bit dizzy when they stand up. Right. So they go to their primary care doctor and they mention that as part of the physical, maybe at the tail end. Right. Um, and, uh, at that tail end, you know, the doctor’s already like running behind looking at his watch. He’s starting to get a little bit of a palpitations himself because he’s like, oh, I know I’m gonna get docked on my RVU units, which is how, you know, how they get paid if they don’t keep up their numbers.

Cate (00:20:49):
Um, so he is, he is, instead of sitting down with a sweet little old lady and saying, well, you know, you’re feeling dizzy when, what, like maybe when you stand up or maybe after a long day and you’ve been dehydrated, or do you have any chest pain and asking a series of questions, just basically taking a history in the way that doctors are trained to diagnose, just by listening, asking questions that we don’t need tests. You know, 90% of it is supposed to be talking. And that’s when I learned in medical school, but now, 90% of it is testing because we don’t have time for the talking. So we refer. So we refer to a cardiologist and I’m actually talking about a real case, where, so this little old lady was referred to a cardiologist and the cardiologist said, oh, palpitations, oh, you know what?

Cate (00:21:32):
Well, I think, um, we better do a fancy version of an EKG called a halter monitor. And so the halter monitor found, um, a couple, a couple little funny little blips. And with that, um, the doctor said, well, you might need a pacemaker. I want you to get this other test where you have to be knocked unconscious. So we can do some sophisticated testing of the electrical conductivity of your heart. Now that that test is super expensive, um, and has some risks, you know, you could, uh, have blood clots from it. You could have, um, bleeding, you could get problems, you could get, go into arrhythmia. We might need to shock your heart. And she was kind of scared. So she went back to her primary doctor and said, do I really need that test? Thank God. This was in a situation where the second app, it was another primary care doctor that she went to that stopped the whole thing.

Cate (00:22:29):
And this is in a growing aspect of primary care called direct primary care where the it’s almost like concierge, where the patients pay a subscription to have access to the doctor, went as many times as they need in a given month. And the doctor talked to them, you have half hour appointments and they just had a conversation about, well, okay, sure. So I know you have these little blips on your EKG, but are any of them symptomatic and did you ever have any problems? And by the way, let’s get back to that original dizziness you, you brought up was, which was the reason you went to the cardiologist and it turned out she was just a little dehydrated and she didn’t need anything. And after talking with a primary care doctor who wasn’t too busy to listen, she was, she was fine. She didn’t need any tests, no more drugs, no more risk, no pacemaker. She just needed to be reminded to drink a little more water or stand it more slowly.

Brad (00:23:24):
So one solution could be somehow allocating more time with that first point of contact and having an educational experience with the primary care physician

Cate (00:23:33):
That, that is in existence already. It’s just quiet. There’s hardly any of it. Yeah. And it requires really, um, savvy doctors, business savvy doctors. And most of us are not, I can speak from personal, but it’s, um, the model, the system, the name of it, which you could Google, if you’re a listener and you wanna find, if there’s a doctor like this near you, um, is called direct primary care. It’s also known as concierge primary care. Hmm. But it’s not really like, you know, super expensive. It’s just like, maybe you pay $150 a month and you pay that whether or not you go see the doctor, but on the months where you need the doctor, you will be able to go as many times as you need to get your problem sorted out and solved. Usually it takes a couple visits. It takes time. It may take some tests, but a good primary care doctor is very judicious about the test that they order. They consider something called false positive rate and the, you know, the risk and benefits of testing. And, that is super important because false positives are potentially deadly and they waste a ton of money. And some folks, um, have done some sophisticated analysis on like, what is the cost of all these false positives? And the estimates are somewhere in the billions

Brad (00:24:45):
And how are they potentially deadly?

Cate (00:24:47):
Because let’s say you took that little old lady and she did get, get like the, the treatment. Right. Let’s say that she, um, she got, they found that there was a little focus of abnormal electricity that sometimes went off in her heart and they wanted to zap it out of existence, but they zapped a little too hard. And, um, the, the vessel started bleeding and mm-hmm, <affirmative> she bled out and died. Right.

Brad (00:25:12):
And didn’t need the test in the first place.

Cate (00:25:14):
Right? Uhhuh <affirmative>.

Brad (00:25:14):
So she goes in that category yeah. Of deadly false positive. Oh, Doug McGuff was writing in the Primal Prescription about the false positives from the mammogram screenings. Yes. And so they have a false cancer diagnosis that they eventually find out is incorrect. But the metabolic consequences, the hormonal consequences to the person who’s been diagnosed with cancer, they are observed to last for six months and they were identical to the person with cancer. So if you get told, Hey, you got cancer, your stress hormone spike, your immune system is suppressed. You’re wigged out. It’s, it’s a, you know, a crisis

Cate (00:25:54):
That makes total sense because,

Brad (00:25:55):
And you don’t have it, but you have the exact same profile.

Cate (00:25:59):
Yeah. So maybe like most of our toxicity of our experience with cancer is that, because we also know that cancers often don’t do anything bad. Like, um, yeah. So like part of, um, there’s a, there’s a doctor that maybe you wanna have on your podcast. His name, last name is Welch. He’s out of Dartmouth. And he’s a super plain talking super bright guy, and he’s done all kinds of analysis on over diagnosis. And, um, the assumption that early detection is better. He’s tested that hypothesis and found it to be false. And he was inspired to do this by one of his own patients where it was sort of a crotchety old guy from new H New Hampshire, you know, live free or die state. You’re not gonna tell me what I’m gonna do with my life. Yeah. So he would, this gentleman was, um, like a, I don’t know, it was probably a smoker. I think that was diagnosed with kidney cancer and just didn’t wanna get even a biopsy, like possible kidney cancer, right. On a CAT scan that was, that was done for something else around his, around his smoking, around his, you know, lung issue. Um,

Brad (00:27:17):
It’s just watched this grow for a while, see what happens

Cate (00:27:20):
And, and, and it didn’t grow for 10 years and he died of something else.

Brad (00:27:25):
So they would’ve zapped that thing and put chemo into his body. Uh,

Cate (00:27:28):
He would’ve lost a kidney, no doubt. Right. And he would’ve gone through all the torture of chemo, which we, you know, we, we think cancer is a genetic disease. So we treat it with powerful, you know, anti cell division therapies, but there’s a whole line of thinking that cancer is a metabolic disease. And so those treatments are it’s book, title, purely toxic. That’s a book title by a Dr. Thomas Seyfried, genius dude, a genius dude out of somewhere in Boston. I forget what school, but, there’s a lot of, you know, super bright people there and he’s one of the super brightest. So just like the idea that first of all, if you, if you assume cancer is a death sentence, the way we do, you’re gonna over diagnose and overtreat it. And that has a ton of toxicity. And secondly, when you do diagnose cancer, well, what if you’re treating it all wrong so that you end up, you know, mostly harming people out of the process of your cancer treatments? Um, and, um, so it’s just looks, it starts to look like a really rigged system and, and kind of the way I describe it,

Brad (00:28:42):
Car repair shop, where they’re like your manifold twist, carbon turbine thing is loose and it’s, I wouldn’t, uh, I wouldn’t let it go. You need to have an overhaul. Yeah. Oh, okay. It’s my car. I’ll do what you say.

Cate (00:28:56):
Yeah. It’s a, it’s very much sleazy like that, but, you know, I, I think of it almost like as a shark, you know, like a shark is a machine designed to eat. And one of the, one of the things that it does is it swims and swims and looks for victims. Well, that’s the advertisements that say, just get your physical, make sure we wanna do this early detection. And, the shark has these teeth that once you get in its mouth, the teeth point backwards. So you can’t, if you’re in that mouth, you’re, you can’t get out. The teeth, everything is getting you into the belly of the shark. And that is what our healthcare system is. It’s that shark that is drawing you into its belly. So it can take you from your money or take your money from you while talking about your health.

Cate (00:29:47):
And in some ways also taking your health from you, tragically, because if you believe anything about what I’m saying here, you take a person who may have a cancer that would never kill them, and you start treating them for it with highly toxic drugs that aren’t really treating the right problem, because what if cancer is a metabolic disease and we’re treating it as a genetic disease, you end up getting an infection from the chemotherapy and you end up dying instead of just never even knowing you had a cancer and having a healthy immune system that fights it off for you, which we know happens.

Brad (00:30:24):
So this cancer is a metabolic disease instead of a genetic disease. Would this be kind of in that same belief pattern where we’re thinking that, the genes or our destiny, rather than we control them at every moment with our behaviors, thoughts, exercise, food choices.

Cate (00:30:41):
Yes. It’s very much like that. It’s also

Brad (00:30:44):
So it’s like this fixed belief pattern.

Cate (00:30:46):
Yeah.

Brad (00:30:46):
That we now, we now recognize cancer as a genetic disease in general, in the, in the Western medicine. That’s what we’re talking protocol.

Cate (00:30:54):
That is the dogma that we are taught, right. That there’s no doubt, like what you, what I learned is there’s no doubt cancer is a genetic disease Uhhuh. If you have cancer, that’s because in your cells, some gene went wrong and started dividing and dividing and dividing. And it was just like a mistake. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that your DNA made and your body couldn’t get it under control. But there, we’ve found that cancer cells in the one person say, who has like breast cancer, one breast cancer cell may have different mutations than a neighboring breast cancer cell. It may look very different. So just on if, you know, just that, that means, so these two mutations just so happen to happen in the, in neighboring can cells, like, does that starts to make a, like, how did that really happen? But if you think of it as a metabolic disease, and you realize that we all have all these unhealthy metabolisms in ways that I, you know, describe in my upcoming book, The Fatburn Fix. But you know, you don’t have to be a doctor or read the book to know that people are overweight and have there’s a lot of diabetes and other chronic diseases. That is a metabolic problem. And that Metabo one of the consequences of all that over reading, the junk foods that we do, um, is we, we develop obesity. We develop diabetes, we develop autoimmune diseases and we develop cancer. And it’s a metabolic problem that can be reversed with metabolic treatments. Mm-hmm,

Brad (00:32:23):
<affirmative>, uh, what, one, to two, to 3% of cancers are genetic diseases, correct? That you’re, you’re screwed. And you, you were a little kid that got cancer eating healthy or whatever, right. There’s some section of the, there are puzzle,

Cate (00:32:38):
Right? Yes. That’s. Oh, so that’s a really good point because people have heard of like the gene for breast cancer, the B R C A1gene, and some other genes, um,

Brad (00:32:46):
Or these non lifestyle related cancers. Also, I’m asking about,

Cate (00:32:50):
Um, like, like what, for example?

Brad (00:32:53):
I don’t know. You tell me, so are there any <laugh> ?

Cate (00:32:56):
Well, we, we, we think like the common thought of cancer is, that you have a genetic susceptibility and there may be lifestyle factors that, um, cause genetic mutation, and then that exacerbate, that mutation to become, um, more severe and have more mutations and more mutations until you finally develop such a mutated cell that it turns against the body and becomes cancer. That’s kind of the standard way of thinking, but they’re really the genes aren’t driving the situation because, and we know this because some really cool experiments that were done a long time ago and that have been repeated since, um, I’m talking about like the forties, I think, as there was a gentleman named Otto Warburg, um, who was a Nobel prize winner, not for this research, but for other research, he did cuz he was just a genius. He actually took cancer. Uh, he experimented with cancer and took like nucleus of a cancer cell and put it in a healthy cell to see if that would turn into cancer. And most of the time he did not. And then he took the mitochondria of the cancer cell and put it in a healthy cell and see if that would turn into cancer. And most of the time it did the mitochondria,

Brad (00:34:18):
Was this the Warburg Effect? Yes. That’s the cancer cells feed preferentially off of glucose.

Cate (00:34:24):
Yes. And glutamate.

Brad (00:34:26):
So that’s how we discover that it’s a metabolic disease in the forties and we forgot it or something.

Cate (00:34:32):
Yes we’ve we did much better research in the thirties and forties on like true healing than we have done since

Brad (00:34:38):
Is that cuz you could mess with people more back then, like the uh, the K experiments starving. I mean the best keto experiment to date is the starvation experiments with Dr. Cahill in the sixties or something.

Cate (00:34:51):
Yeah. Right. Right.

Brad (00:34:51):
Now we can’t do that anymore?

Cate (00:34:53):
Um, we, we could cuz you don’t have starve people to get people into ketosis.

Brad (00:34:56):
You get volunteers,

Cate (00:34:57):
You could just, well yes, true. Right. And you could just, you, another

Brad (00:35:00):
One, do you wanna do a starvation keto experiment?

Cate (00:35:02):
Don’t do starve people. You, you wanna, what you wanna do is you wanna study people who are fat adapted. Right, right. You don’t faster

Brad (00:35:09):
Study

Cate (00:35:09):
Exactly. Right. More of that. Yeah. So we don’t need to do anything that’s questionably ethical. So yeah. So to answer your question. No it’s because we, we were not conflicted because our scientist and the people funding scientists, there was a thing called the physician scientist back in the day, doctors used to work four days in the clinic and one day in the lab and that was like

Brad (00:35:31):
The Google employees doing their great things. Many of the Google innovations came on that, that 20% day they call it at Google. Yeah. Where the engineers are allowed free time. Yeah. Yeah. Gmail came from a 20% day.

Cate (00:35:44):
Wow. Yeah. So, so that’s the way medicine was like the doctor was a scientist and the doctors were, were brilliant. I mean, they were just brilliant and they were able to figure out all this stuff and they weren’t conflicted. They didn’t go into it with any preconceived pre consisting notions, which happen in a powerful way when you’re getting funding from somebody with an agenda. And almost all of our funding now comes with an agenda of some sort, even from the NIH, the agenda might be, you know, we wanna get children to eat less, less saturated fat, it’s just assumed that, you know, having whole milk is bad for kids or something like that. So there’s, there’s strings attached and that drastically interferes with the scientific scientific process. It, because it biases our brain and we can’t see what’s right in front of us.

Brad (00:36:33):
Oh. So, to pick up our conversation from dinner last night for the listener, if we, if we got diagnosed with cancer today, what will we do? You and I and anyone else who wants to hear from Dr. Cate? Well, what’s the first thing you’d do or tell me to do,

Cate (00:36:50):
I would recommend if you were a patient, um, is I would go over your diet and try and, you know, figure out, is there something that you are doing wrong that you should stop doing wrong immediately and and start doing better. Um, and then in terms of like going through this standard chemotherapy and everything like that, you know, that’s an ethical conundrum, what’s the word conundrum quagmire <laugh> right now. Like, like

Brad (00:37:19):
It’s, it’s not seen as an ethical quagmire to anybody. Yeah. Who got cancer.

Cate (00:37:23):
It’s like, you, you assume that you gotta go to your, get your chemotherapy. But, I would tell them to watch a few of the videos of Dr. Seyfried, before they do any drastic chemotherapy. I have a question mark in my head about whether surgery is beneficial about whether radiation is beneficial. But I do know that dietary changes are beneficial. So, um, they,

Brad (00:37:47):
They can’t possibly hurt. Right, right, right. So honestly, well,

Cate (00:37:52):
If you’re doing a good diet, I mean, if you, if I were to tell them, I want you to have more French fries and you

Brad (00:37:56):
Know, Snickers, I mean, no dietary intervention that I guess we don’t agree on. What’s healthy. I just did a podcast with Rip Esseltsyn and Get Over Yourself podcast. So the vegan diet is seen as the ultimate mm-hmm <affirmative>. Okay. So let’s say we’re, we’re gonna go to the diet route and you yourself would roll the dice on a diet intervention and sit back

Cate (00:38:16):
For my personal self. Yeah. Like I would look and see, okay, well let’s say I wasn’t already doing everything. I could, I would definitely double down and be more serious. But I feel like right now where I’m at, I feel like I’m cancer proof because

Brad (00:38:30):
<laugh> the Dr. Cate cancer proof show. That could be a book title.

Cate (00:38:35):
I mean it, that, yeah. Yeah.

Brad (00:38:36):
Yeah. I mean the Fatburn Fix is gonna make you cancer proof too. Probably cuz we just heard about the Warburg Effect Uhhuh <affirmative> right, right. Cancer proof subtitle, maybe

Cate (00:38:47):
<laugh> yeah. Okay. Well the, I think we could do another book about, you know, how burning fat helps you become cancer proof. But um, but, so I would just, and I have done this where I’ve worked with people to, um, if they’re diabetic, they need to reverse their diabetes. They need to be able to get off their diabetes medications. They need to be able to become fat adapted. They need to cut down on their protein. They need to be in a weight loss state. I do everything that Dr. Seyfried Thomas Seyfried recommends. Now, he’s taken it several steps further by coming up with interventions that only doctors could do, like, and only could do in monitored setting. Like give people insulin.

Brad (00:39:33):
Yes. Stick some insulin. Well, Peter Attia did it in his backyard setting and, nearly lost his life apparently from sticking himself with insulin. Well, but that’s a, that’s a cancer protocol. Yes. That we could explore?

Cate (00:39:46):
Exactly. And I it’s being done. So, um,

Brad (00:39:49):
So where in someone’s backyard? I mean you can’t oh,

Cate (00:39:51):
In Turkey.

Brad (00:39:52):
In Turkey, so yeah. What a show. That’s why this is my favorite guest. We’re oh my gosh. Okay. So cut. We’re going keto zero car probably with our cancer diagnosis and then we’re jumping on a plane to Turkey. Turkish Airways. Yeah. Don’t they have those nice commercials in the nice sleeping quarters. Okay.

Cate (00:40:13):
That’s soothing. Yes. And hopefully you have a stress free ride to Turkey.

Brad (00:40:17):
Um, would the, would the zero carb be a starting point necessarily?

Cate (00:40:21):
I don’t know about zero. So what you wanna do is you want to get somebody like my philosophy’s slightly different than the way they do it over there. They, they kind of dump people into it all, all at once. And, and I feel like you need to ease people into it, personally. So if it were up to me, I would work with them first, ease them into it and then hand them off to, to these other guys. And, once they become, you know, a lot metabolically healthier where they can handle a lot fewer carbs without having hypoglycemia symptoms and feeling, you know, going through the low carb

Brad (00:40:51):
Flow. Oh sure. We forgot. I forgot that part. Yeah. It’s we’re fat adapted when we got our diagnosis. So now we’re gonna jump on, jump on board, go crazy. But if you’re not, you can’t just fast all day, right. Fight your cancer. I

Cate (00:41:04):
Feel like that could be stressful. So I feel like let’s avoid that too. And go through just a short period where you are becoming fat adopted. And you know, that may take a couple weeks, may take a couple months, depending on how, you know, far you are down that road of diabetes, um, which is a long road. Um <laugh> but, um, but so the insulin therapy that they do is different than what Peter Attia did. So at least if I’m remembering, if we’re talking about the same conversation, so what Peter Attia did is something called the U glycemic insulin clamp, where you’re not just giving yourself insulin. You’re also getting an infusion of glucose at the same time. Now, if he had skipped that infusion of glucose, I think he probably would’ve done a lot better because what the infusion of glucose does is, it shuts down the keto and the infusion of insulin a little bit like the, and the amounts that he did.

Cate (00:41:57):
Cause you give so much insulin when you in, when you, it’s just a lot more insulin involved, I think, than what they do over in Turkey. And that amount of insulin shuts down your keto production. And so you’re working against the goal of keto production and that’s why he almost died. But if you do it by a different protocol, you closely monitor people who are fat adapted. It makes total sense to me, you can drop your blood sugar levels down to, you know, 10, 20 maybe. And you starve the cancer of one of its two fuels. There’s a number of other fuels that cancers can use. And Dr. Seyfried has come up with another drug that helps to starve it up, its other major fuel, but there’s a lot of fuels cancer cells can use. So we can’t even guarantee that that will be a win, but it will definitely give you a leg up. Um, two legs up, maybe, uh, maybe four legs up <laugh> it gives dogs a lot of legs up cuz they do this more in animals. <laugh> and um, and they,

Brad (00:42:50):
In these smooth transitions by Dr. Cate. You’ll have a leg up, you’ll have two legs up, you’ll have four legs up and I’m literally true. Okay.

Cate (00:43:00):
Yeah. Cause they’ve done this sort of thing in dogs because they can be more aggressive and it’s had just fairly miraculous results in dogs. Yeah. With advanced cancers. Whew. Yeah. In this, this country. So,

Brad (00:43:12):
You you’re, you feel like you’re cancer proof now before you need to go to Turkey. Mm-hmm <affirmative> why is that?

Cate (00:43:19):
Because I do believe that cancer is a metabolic disease and I believe that

Brad (00:43:23):
All cancer are, is there anything we could separate out?

Cate (00:43:27):
Um,

Brad (00:43:29):
No certain organ or this kind of cancer that kind of cancer.

Cate (00:43:33):
I don’t, I don’t

Brad (00:43:34):
Think so. They’re downstream from metabolism.

Cate (00:43:36):
I’m not an expert, but my take on it is no, I think they are all downstream from metabolism.

Brad (00:43:41):
So when I asked before about the genetic diseases, this would be things outside of the cancer realm, like Huntington’s disease or you know, misprint on your chromosomes. And then you get these terrible conditions that you had nothing to do with your lifestyle, had nothing to do with you were born with it or whatnot.

Cate (00:44:03):
Right. So that every, every familial and genetic disease has something called, uh, penetrance like a degree of penetrance. Meaning if you have the gene for Huntingtons, what is your chance of actually developing Huntingtons? And maybe say it’s something like 80%, but it’s not a hundred percent. I don’t think there is one that’s a hundred percent. And that has to do with epigenetics and your metabolism and all these other things. And the body as a system. It’s not just genes. Your genes are not your destiny. And so in deep nutrition, uh, our first book, why deep nutrition, why your genes need traditional food? Uh, we talk about the epigenetic part of it, why your genes are not your destiny and why your diet has such a powerful role in controlling your destiny. And you know, we don’t use the word metabolism a whole ton, as much as I do in my next book, Fatburn Fix, where I help you meet your metabolism.

Cate (00:44:59):
We talk about metabolism, what it is and all this and how do you speed it up when you lose weight and all these kinds of questions. Um, but um, in Deep Nutrition, I just explained a lot about how your genes need your diet to be full of the same nutrients that your ancestors got and their ancestors got because they’ve, they’ve been programmed by generations and generations to function best when they get this. It’s kind of like the operating, uh, system of a hard drive, right? You need to have the, the, the food is like the operating system and the hard drive is your genes. And you can have a hard drive that has a glitch, but if you have a really good operating system, you’ll never know it. And vice versa, you can have a beautifully perfect hard drive, but if you have a terrible operating system, you’re not gonna get anywhere with that computer.

Cate (00:45:55):
And so that’s the analogy edgy. There is like you were born with your hardware and your diet is your operating system. And so you have so much ability to control your, your, your, the destiny of that hardware, that genetic hardware by following a healthy diet and Deep Nutrition, we talk about, you know, what is a healthy diet? Like we decide, we define it scientifically, but based on traditions. It’s like still to my knowledge, the only book that scientifically analyzes all world cuisine to see what they have in common. Like we, we go beyond just like, you know, there’s this book, the blue zones. We don’t just look at four zones to see what they ate with a biased view and say it was all what we thought it was going into it, which is, you know, mostly plants, a little bit of meat. But, we actually look at cuisines around the world, see what they have in common and, and that’s, what’s in the book before things plus a lot of other stuff.

Cate (00:46:47):
But, um, so yeah, so even if you have a gene for a disease, even if it’s a gene for cancer, the gene for breast cancer, that P B R C A1 with a 80% penetrance, which is a really, really scary number, I still believe that if you don’t get your boobs locked off and your ovaries taken out and you follow a really good diet that you have way better than a 20% chance of survival. And you know, I’ve, I’ve spoken with a couple patients who didn’t even wanna get the B R C A1 gene testing, even though they qualified to get it because they had the family members with it. They didn’t want it because they intuitively knew what you said earlier, which is just that diagnosis of something scary of a potential for cancer could totally throw them off their game forever. And they didn’t wanna go there.

Brad (00:47:36):
Wow. That’s heavy

Cate (00:47:38):
<laugh>

Brad (00:47:39):
So I guess they’re, they’re gonna be obligated to get screened extremely frequently or something. They,

Cate (00:47:44):
They, they have the option. Um, and, uh, yes. If the, if the gene comes up, sorry. Yeah, they they’re obligated. Not exactly obligated, but they are, they’re pressured to get the gene that, the screening for the gene. Right. And then once you get screening for the gene, and if it’s positive, then you are heavily pressured to get screening for breast cancer, with frequent MRIs and Ultrasounds.

Brad (00:48:08):
It’s like anyone with family history. Mm-hmm <affirmative> they want you going in there all the time. Yes. Yeah. So Seyfried thinks that maybe you shouldn’t do this stuff or, or right. Let’s say whether you decide to or not, and you get a, a positive on the image, then we’re supposed to consider waiting a bit and just doing metabolic therapy outta the gate for a while, before we hit with the hard invasive drugs?

Cate (00:48:34):
I can’t speak for him. I, I think that is what he has said. Yeah. That’s what I say. Yeah. And

Brad (00:48:38):
Yeah. What you say. Yeah.

Cate (00:48:39):
Yeah. And, the other Dr. Welch. So if you put the two doctors together, this Dr. Welch says, you know, maybe we shouldn’t even be screening people so aggressively. Maybe we should screen them, but not so aggressively. Right? Let’s wait till the cancer’s a little more advanced. And like it show signs that the body’s having a hard time controlling this or something, you know, maybe we don’t need to find it when it’s, you know, a millimeter. Maybe we can wait, maybe like there’s, maybe we should focus on trying to figure out which cancers are aggressive and, and just focus on catching those. But we don’t have, we haven’t done that. So we don’t have that ability just yet. So if you take what he says, Welch, well, we shouldn’t screen you so often. And then you take what Seyfried, says and says, well, once we find the cancer, we shouldn’t even treat you with chemotherapy. You put the two together and you basically have a lot of people happy walking around, wearing the yellow color that I’m wearing, holding hands and being shiny and happy and not worrying about cancer every single day of their life.

Brad (00:49:35):
So according to Biology of Belief, Bruce Lipton, and Ageless Body, Timeless Mind, Deepak Chopra, they’re manifesting a longevity mindset and a health mindset. Mm-hmm <affirmative> maybe they are getting dysregulated cell division and snuffing it out the next morning.

Cate (00:49:51):
Absolutely. You put that in there too. And like, you can just cut healthcare costs, you know, massively, overnight.

Brad (00:49:58):
However, most people are out there stuffing their face with shit. They should probably get in and get screened because they’re gonna bake cancers left and right. Deliberately almost.

Cate (00:50:09):
Yes. And the problem is there’s so many people now in this diet, I know better than you game. Like, I’m gonna tell you what the diet is, what diet is the best diet. Oh, PS. It’s my weird diet. And, um, you know, I say that if you just cut out gluten, well, that’s all you need to do. Well, I say that if you cut out lectins, that’s all you need to do. Well, I say that if you cut out vegetables, that’s all you need to do. I say, if you cut out meat, that’s all you need to do. So I mean like, who do you listen to? Right. That was

Brad (00:50:39):
Four different people to listen to

Cate (00:50:40):
There. Yeah. That’s just to start with, I mean, you gotta

Brad (00:50:42):
Watch the YouTube video now, people, she rocked those four different personalities. She came to life in different positions of her seat.

Cate (00:50:49):
<laugh> so,

Brad (00:50:51):
Right. So this is great. I mean, what do we, we’re so confused. And then we go from one podcast to the next, in this example, um, the, the carnivore thing is hot right now. My microphone, the one that you’re using is smoldering hot from Rip Esselstyn, going off on the plant strong, a boiler plate and people, you know, whoever makes the most compelling case, or whoever’s nearest to you. It’s a rough battle out there.

Cate (00:51:19):
Yeah. Yeah. And people are confused and people, even who are, my patients are confused and there’s so many reasons to be confused, cuz there’s so much conflict of interest. And that’s why our first book, Deep Nutrition is so long and so involved. Cuz we wanna kind of start from the beginning of the conversation and see if we can carry you through the whole train ride until you come to a place where you’re like, okay, that made sense. And now I’m empowered to understand whether other people’s arguments make sense. But honest to God, you have to read the book like three or four times before you get there. And I apologize for that. <laugh> I wish it could be more simple, but then the book would have to be even longer.

Brad (00:52:05):
You get better to do. I know everyone’s talking about game of Thrones. I’ve never seen it before. Um, it’s on my list. I’m I’m, I’m being pressured to see it just like I’m being pressured to go get my colonoscopy when I’m 50, I turned that one down. I made a reasonable decision, talked to Dr. Cate had the pipeline, uh, listened to what Doug McGuff had to say about the screening risk itself. Just like the old lady versus the benefit <laugh> anyway. Um, so go read Deep Nutrition. You tell me you don’t have time. My goodness. <laugh> yeah. Fabulous stuff. But we have a whole, a whole show on the four pillars, but I guess we should drop those in. So we get a little bit of context. So this is the commonality among our ancestral experience, our ancestral diet and there’s four categories of foods.

Cate (00:52:52):
Yeah. They are fresh foods. Fermented. That’s the number one. And they’re not in any particular order except for like the easiest, right. We all understand fresh. Fermented and S sprouted. So we take fresh food and we alter it with, we let nature alter it. So we either let the seed sprout partially germinate, or we let microbes interact with it and ferment it in some way and then meat on the bone. So we use meat, but we also use the bone and the nutrients in joint material and nutrients in skin and the fat. That’s under the skin and then organ meat. So we use all those spare parts that are right now, mostly used as carpet backing and glue and dog and cat food. But people used to eat everything. And we used to get all of our nutrients from the entire animal’s body, because all, all of the vitamins and minerals, if you eat the whole animal body and you eat a variety of different kinds of animals, you’ll get everything you need and you don’t need plants.

Brad (00:53:48):
So among the most enthusiastic eaters on whatever side of the coin they fall on, could very likely be batting one for four, two for four.

Cate (00:54:00):
Um,

Brad (00:54:01):
The, the plant strong community is batting one or two out of four, cuz they don’t eat the meat. Right. Um, an enthusiastic keto person who’s going into the steaks, not on the bone, not E not bothering with their kimchi cuz they don’t like it. Eschewing the fruits and vegetables are minimizing them extremely in the name of hitting this 50 grand, a keto they’re batting two for four also, right? Yeah. When I talked to you, I was like, I’m batting two for four here, cuz I’m not eating the organ meats. I just, I don’t know how to cook liver. I’m afraid of it. It looks like a big dollar bill that got dirty. And so that was a huge awakening for me. And then the fermented foods, you have to go make a concerted effort and that’s, what’s cool about the approach here is like, it seems like this radical diet today to go embark upon and look at a list. What, what, what’s a sprouted food, where do I get that? But this was all we had back then. Right? I mean, it was, it was all about four for four for hundreds of thousands, millions of years. Right?

Cate (00:55:08):
Right. Whether or not you were in Alaska or Hawaii. And, and I, although a minute ago, I did say you can do well and never touch a plant food everywhere people were. They did do that. So, you know, I wouldn’t necessarily encourage trying to do that. Even in Alaska where there was like very, very little plant life. There still was some, there still were things like lichens, maybe there probably mushrooms. And they also ate the contents of the intestinal tract of animals that were herbivores. So they ate all that part. I mean, they ate the, when I say the whole animal, I mean the whole animal, including the gut contents. I mean, it was, we can’t do that. Right. So the carnivore diet today is basically, we’re just taking the meat. Right. We don’t talk very much about all the other parts of the animal. We’re just the muscle meat. I mean, we don’t talk about, I mean, where can you even get, uh, lungs in America?

Brad (00:56:09):
Right. Ancestral supplements.com I guess.

Cate (00:56:11):
Yeah. There’s your answer.

Brad (00:56:13):
They bottle up these hard to find things. That’s why it’s pretty interesting. We can, we can do a good job, but we gotta awaken to the idea that our diet is grossly deficient, perhaps, even though we’re super healthy, enthusiastic in the top 1% of <laugh> dietary awareness.

Cate (00:56:30):
Right. Right. Exactly. It’s just like, we’re taking a little sliver out of the rainbow of nutrient colors that we could be dipping into with the animals that we raise, not to mention that we don’t raise them very well. That’s whole other conversation, which we’ve had <laugh> I think probably,

Brad (00:56:47):
Well, I like the focus on this one is being cancer proof. That’s a great interest to humans. Yeah. And we’ve got some good tips. Uh, just maybe we should wrap it up with we wanna go to the four pillars. Mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, if we get cancer, we’re gonna go down and, and get highly fat adapted and let keto take hold. Um, what are the hot points in the other areas of life? Like when you’re consulting with your, with your group there, are we looking at basic daily movement? Um, sleep habits, you know?

Cate (00:57:18):
Yeah. So I do absolutely encourage that kind of thing, but what I haven’t mentioned yet and is maybe the most important thing is that the average person, 30 per to 40% of their daily calories is coming from what I have to call non-food source kind of fat, which are the vegetable oils and those things promote cancer. So when you’re talking about going on a keto diet, you have to be careful about what kinds of salad dressing you get, you know, are you putting olive oil based salad dressing or are using soy oil? Cuz you’re gonna not be able to become can to be like confident that your cancer proof, if, if you’re still using the soy oil or the canola oil or the, you know, um, the safflower and cotton seed oil, all these vegetable oils that I talk about at length and Deep Nutrition, um, and you know, you wanna get the better quality mayonnaises, like the avocado oil based mayonnaises. And you have to do that or you are still actually eating foods that actively promote cancer because those vegetable oils, they go after your mitochondria, they damage your mitochondria there’s studies that I cite in my next book that show that mitochondria cannot function when they have a certain concentration of vegetable oil that they’re supposed to be trying to burn for energy. It shuts them down. They cannot produce energy. So, that leads, that’s what leads to cancer in my view.

Brad (00:58:51):
So why, when we go into Whole Foods, great healthy store with their high standards and their website, we will allow no hydrogenated oils into the store. We stand strong against the horrible, but the canola oils everywhere on their salad bar and all their crap. And now I’m learning that some people are saying it’s okay,

Cate (00:59:14):
Canola oil?

Brad (00:59:14):
Right? Oh, it’s fine. It’s a high omega-3 that you can look on the articles going in detail, why this is a heart healthy oil and you have the heart healthy symbol. I found out that that costs $600,000 to get the symbol on a product. Right. Heart healthy. Yeah. That was you. Right. You told me that yeah. $600,000 you pay going for, and there it is on there. Yeah.

Cate (00:59:37):
Mm-hmm

Brad (00:59:37):
<affirmative> and I have elderly family members and there it is on the, on the counter, it says heart healthy. And I made a comment about maybe considering switching over to something that wouldn’t kill you. And there, you know, it was, it was an eye-opening exchange, right. It says, but, but this is heart healthy. Yeah. Right there. That’s why I use it. But why do some people, how can some people defend canola oil right now?

Cate (01:00:02):
So I say you have to be able to visualize the problem. And the way I try to help people do that is by seeing that like canola oil is unstable, that it’s molecularly unstable. And if you have too much of it in your diet, it destabilizes. And that destabilization is a problem. And it, it, the it molecularly deteriorates. And this is where it becomes a little harder to visualize what you have is something called free radical test, which is almost like radiation. It’s almost like it becomes like plutonium in your body where it degrades. And it starts flying off these high energy molecules called free radicals, that damage your cells. They damage your DNA. They damage your enzymes. They damage everything in your cell and your cell cannot have a chance of functioning properly and they shut down your cell’s energy production. And, and so your cells have to learn to produce energy without mitochondria. They shut down your mitochondria. The only way to produce energy without mitochondria is glucose. So you become more glucose dependent and more glucose dependent and more glucose dependent because

Brad (01:01:21):
Of the oils.

Cate (01:01:21):
Because of these unstable oils that can’t produce energy. So canola oil, even though it’s omega three and not omega six, is still a problem because it’s unstable and that’s sort of a synopsis, but we’re talking about advanced biochemistry that I went to college to learn, I mean, to high school learned the basic fundamental biochemistry. Then I went to college to learn more biochemistry than I went to Cornell to learn more biochemistry. And that’s why I understand it. Now, it’s hard to describe this advanced biochemistry in a way that may means anything to very many people, but I try my darnest in Deep Nutrition. We have two whole chapters about the role of vegetable oil first in causing heart disease. And second in causing brain disease. The second chapter talks about how it causes brain disease and genetic disease.

Brad (01:02:26):
Look on YouTube too. We have a nice video with, I think with Luke, for 15 minutes hitting it hard. Oh good. Why vegetable oils are so bad? The unstability just keeping it high surface here. It comes from the harsh processing methods

Cate (01:02:42):
It comes

Brad (01:02:43):
From. So it’s in the bottle unstable.

Cate (01:02:45):
It, it is unstable in the bottle. It comes from the type of fatty acid. So the type of fatty, we have saturated fatty acids, the ones that we’re told are bad for us, those are extraordinarily stable. And what I mean is they resist reacting with oxygen.

Brad (01:03:02):
Excuse me, could you speak into the microphone again? The saturated fat that we’ve been told our whole lives are, will kill us, are

Cate (01:03:11):
Extraordinarily stable, but by which, I mean, they don’t react with oxygen. We always have oxygen in

Brad (01:03:18):
Our body. Right. They’re, they’re saturated,

Cate (01:03:19):
They’re saturated,

Brad (01:03:20):
Which is a easy way to remember this for some of you out there that are coming from the athletic world or what have you, they’re saturated all the, all the ions are saturated. So it’s not gonna become free radicals when it’s exposed to heat, light oxygen. Exactly. Okay. So saturated fats are, are okay. Right. Thank you enough.

Cate (01:03:40):
And then

Brad (01:03:40):
Enough of the rest of that message people out there. It’s chemistry. Yeah.

Cate (01:03:46):
It’s it’s chemistry. So

Brad (01:03:47):
It’s not marketing hype it’s chemistry. Right.

Cate (01:03:49):
Okay. And then, so we have mono unsaturated like olive oil and avocado oil. Those are a little bit less stable. But it turns out that they’re like the sweet spot. That they’re actually the, the best for producing energy because they’re slightly unstable. The, the, they can be broken down in a way. It makes the, the, the body, the mitochondria, it makes it easier to get energy from them because they’re just a little bit easier to break down than saturated fat. But the body is not designed to get energy from these very unstable polyunsaturated fatty acids that break down accidentally without control. Right? The mitochondria is a little machine inside ourselves. That’s designed to harness the energy of oxygen and in a very tightly controlled way, get bond energy by using oxygen as an energy acceptor. And, you know, what does that even mean?

Cate (01:04:52):
Well, what it means is we need to breathe because our mitochondria use oxygen to extract energy from the food we eat and not all foods are designed to be optimally burned for fuel. Um, the fats are one of the things that are designed optimally. And I mentioned earlier, the monounsaturated fats are the best at burning. They produce the most ATP per like, you know, concentration of them. That’s available to ourselves. Guess what type of fatty acid our bodies convert most of the sugar that we eat into when we eat too much sugar say, and we convert the extra sugar into body fat, guess what type they turn most of that into saturated or monounsaturated? They can’t, we can’t make polyunsaturated. So that’s not even on the table. The answer is monounsaturated as if designed to take carbohydrate energy and convert it into an ideal fuel.

Cate (01:06:00):
Guess what that is designed, that is the design. And you look at any mammal you look at like <laugh> any vertebrate. Well, I can say for sure, in any mammal, that is what most of their body fat is stored as monounsaturated fat. So whatever their diet is, they store most of their body fat as monounsaturated fat, whether they’re an herbivore or a carnivore, their body fat is regulating the ability of their cells to produce energy by putting most of it in the form of monounsaturated fat. And when we eat too much polyunsaturated fat, we lose that ideal ratio. We lose that ability to put most of our, most of our carbohydrate energy into the form of that ideal fuel.

Brad (01:06:48):
So where does it go?

Cate (01:06:50):
It becomes saturated Uhhuh, and that’s harder to use. And, and they’re,

Brad (01:06:54):
They’re all stored in triglyceride form. Yeah. Whether it’s mono or saturated. Right. Right. So we’re getting dysfunctional fat metabolism from consuming these nasty oils. Yes. And, and if this is basic, this is basic biochemistry lesson. Thanks for hanging in there, student <laugh>. How can anyone tout the consumption of these oils today, when we’re talking about basic biochemistry?

Cate (01:07:18):
Like morally, how can they do it? Yeah. They, they don’t know what they’re talking about. They don’t understand the biochemistry and they haven’t looked into how that biochemistry affects the physiology of the body.

Brad (01:07:27):
So that, what about the dead bodies? <laugh> they, don’t looking at those?

Cate (01:07:31):
They’re finding other reasons, you know, you can take a look at the same evidence and if your idea is preconceived, that it’s because of the saturated fat, you’re gonna find ways to blame saturated fat. Okay.

Brad (01:07:42):
There you go. We wrapped it all up. I mean, that’s, that makes sense. Right. So we just kind of have to dig deeper, get longer books, maybe.

Cate (01:07:52):
Yeah. Think harder. Yeah. I mean, if you really wanna know the answer, it’s cool to be able to listen to a podcast and get some ideas and hear some cool ideas, but you have to, you have to do more than that to really be confident that you’ve found the right answer. And a lot of people sort of try this and try that and get better. Those people are really good at listening to their bodies, stumble into it by listening, by trying this and trying that and trying what, you know, I recommend and finding that that did work best, but there’s so many, it’s so hard to do that, you know, you really do have to be willing to understand what is your core value? What is your core belief? Do you believe that nature knows best? And do you believe that nature set it all up in a way that would work best for us? Or do you believe that nature put these little mine fields out there for us in the form of gluten and lectin and, um, plants that taste good? <laugh> right. But they’ll a that actually, you know, will kill us. And we have no way of dealing with the sugar in fruit. Right? You can have fruit if your metabolism is healthy, it’s not gonna cause insulin resistance. If you don’t have too much all the time,

Brad (01:09:00):
Would it be undisputed that a dietary modification leading to increased HDL and reduced triglycerides is a positive? Does anyone disagree with that? Does the, the vegan freak hippie person or the laboratory white coat, canola oil employee, anyone is, is that something we could base a ex personal experiment upon?

Cate (01:09:25):
I would recommend that, but

Brad (01:09:27):
I mean, there does anyone think disagree,

Cate (01:09:28):
There

Brad (01:09:29):
Are people they wanna see your triglycerides higher when you go and consult with them or <laugh>, there

Cate (01:09:33):
Are people who will argue that triglyceride levels don’t matter as much as LDL levels. And you should look at your LDL levels.

Brad (01:09:40):
Oh, okay.

Cate (01:09:40):
And there are people that will argue that your LDL levels matter more than your HDL levels. Those people in my mind are completely ignorant because there’s no evidence that supports that. There’s so, but you know, so

Brad (01:09:54):
For the most part, if we decide, Hey, I’m gonna try this, this four pillars thing, and I’m gonna take my blood and see that my triglycerides are 172 now. And then 30 days later, they’re 72. And my HDL went from 30 to 60 by and large, just about every even mainstream physician. Whoever you can talk to is gonna say you did some good stuff.

Cate (01:10:15):
They’re gonna give you a thumbs up on the HDL going up and their knowledge about the, the harms of triglycerides being, you know, and the ratio aspect is inadequate. So they’re not gonna understand that a triglyceride going from say 140 down to, you know, 90 is a really big deal. If at the same time you’ve upped your HDL. They’re, they’re generally not aware of the importance of the ratio. They’re really focusing on another ratio, which is your total cholesterol to your HDL level. And your total cholesterol is because completely irrelevant. And there’s a lot of people who say LDL being high is actually better. And, and I think those people make perfect sense. So I, I, I agree with that, but that’s really a hard sell in standard medicine. There’s cardiologists though that are saying it, you know, that are in, you know, working in institutions and working with other doctors that the other doctors think they’re crazy, but their patients are not dying. Their patients are living and getting off medicines and losing weight and becoming healthier.

Brad (01:11:17):
So that triglycerides to HDL ratio is your favorite heart disease, risk proof objective.

Cate (01:11:26):
Yes,

Brad (01:11:27):
Probably cancer proof from what we’ve learned in our, in our lesson today,

Cate (01:11:32):
Very much

Brad (01:11:33):
Possible. Okay. Possible, go for it, people. And then, you know, right back and say, Hey, my triglycerides dropped my HDL spike cuz of this and this. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening. It’s great to know how to be cancer proof. I love it. <laugh> Dr. Cate, rockin’ it in Florida.

Brad (01:11:50):
Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support. Please. Email podcast@Brad ventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list at bradkearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the B.rad podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember, be rad.

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