In this episode, I talk with Dr. Courtney Conley, world renowned foot expert and author of Walk: Rediscover the Most Natural Way to Boost Your Health and Longevity One Step at a Time, about why walking is not exercise—it’s a physiological necessity.
Dr. Courtney makes the bold case that walking speed should be the sixth vital sign. Research shows that a slower walking pace can be predictive of things like dementia and increased cancer risk, and that simply adding 500 steps to a 2,500-step baseline can reduce all-cause mortality by 7%. We also challenge the 10,000-step myth and explain why living in the 5,000–8,500 step range delivers powerful benefits—especially when you sprinkle in five-minute “movement snacks” and intentional faster walking.
We go deep into foot strength and modern footwear, including why one in three people over age 45 has foot pain, how constant cushioning can weaken the foot, and why pronation is mandatory for a healthy gait. Dr. Courtney explains her “24-hour shoe clock” concept—there’s a time and a place for everything, but the goal is trending toward barefoot functionality so the foot can do what it was designed to do. It’s a practical, motivating conversation about strengthening your feet, improving your walking speed, and reclaiming this fundamental human movement that impacts every system in your body.
Dr. Courtney Conley holds a Doctorate in Chiropractic Medicine and bachelor’s degrees in Kinesiology and Human Biology. She is the founder and creator of Gait Happens and has worked with professional athletic organizations including the Phoenix Suns, New York Yankees, Cleveland Browns, New York Giants, San Francisco 49ers, and Minnesota Vikings. Dr. Conley serves as Head of Patient Care at Total Health Solutions and Total Health Performance, premier healthcare destinations known for their comprehensive, science-based approach to patient care.
TIMESTAMPS:
Our survival as a species has hinged on one key factor: movement. (Dr. Conley) [01:17]
Why are we treating the foot so much differently than we’re treating the rest of the human body? [07:07]
Gait Happens is an online educational company. [10:48]
The super cushioned shoes can improve performance because it allows your foot to not have to do the work that it is designed to do. But you need to get your feet stronger. [14:32]
One out of three people over the age of 45 have foot pain. [18:39]
Walking should be integrated throughout the day. [24:10]
On the bottom of the foot, we have many sensory receptors. When we put cushioned shoes on, we compromise some important sensory information. [27:09]
The speed of one’s gait can be predictive of longevity. [28:43]
When the heel hits the ground, it starts the cascade of the foot unlocking or pronation. That is a mandatory thing that has to happen. [34:46]
The 10,000 steps we have heard so much about is kind of a myth. [39:36]
Walking is all about rotation. You are nourishing your joints. You’re loading your spine and bones. Your muscles are active and your nervous system is engaged. [46:28]
There is a difference between ambient walking and intentional walking. [47:40]
In her clinic, the most common things she sees are heel pain and big toe pain. [49:18]
Many folks in the running population who are heavy users of the elevated cushion shoes visit her clinic to learn ways to strengthen their feet. [53:17]
What exercises and strengthening can people learn from your book? [54:38]
Your shoe should respect the anatomy of the foot. The widest part of your foot should be the toes. [58:44]
LINKS:
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- Brad’s Shopping Page
- BornToWalkBook.com
- B.rad Podcast – All Episodes
- Peluva Five-Toe Minimalist Shoes
- Walk: Rediscover the Most Natural Way to Boost Your Health and Longevity
- Human Locomotion
- Gait Happens
- Dr. Courtney Conley
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TRANSCRIPT:
Brad (00:00:00):
Welcome to the B.rad podcast – where we explore ways to pursue peak performance with passion throughout life. I’m Brad Kearns, NY Times bestselling author, world #1 ranked masters age 60-plus high jumper, and former #3 world-ranked professional triathlete. You’ll learn how to stay fit, strong and powerful as you age; transform your diet to lose body fat and increase energy; sort through hype and misinformation to make simple, sustainable lifestyle changes; and broaden your perspective beyond a fit body to experience healthy relationships, nonstop personal growth, and ultimately a happy, healthy, long life. Let’s explore beyond shortcuts, hacks, and crushing competition to laugh, have fun, appreciate the journey, and not take ourselves too seriously. It’s time to B.rad!
Courtney (00:00:51):
You go to the doctor, the first thing they do, they check your temperature, your blood pressure, your oxygen saturation. These are very big markers that if something is awry there, it’s like, time out. We gotta figure this out because this can be a predictor of disease in putting walking speed saying we’re gonna take walking speed and we’re going to couple it with these five vital signs, I think is a very big statement. And
Brad (00:01:17):
I am pleased to welcome Dr. Courtney Conley, world renowned foot expert and author of a sensational new book titled Walk: Rediscover the Most Natural Way to Boost Your Health and Longevity One Step at a Time. And as you can imagine, Mark Sisson and I are big fans of Courtney when we were working on our book Born to Walk, so many crossover, amazing topics that deserve to be brought out into the big picture and into mainstream. And Courtney does a beautiful job with this book, not just talking about how the wonderful benefits of walking, but getting into the details, the specifics of how to create lifestyle habits and changes to your routine so that you can put in more steps, the benefits of putting in those additional steps. And also breaking through from some of the hype about these concepts that we hear about, like the 10,000 step a day, recommendation and so forth.
Brad (00:02:12):
But the book is also covering a variety of different topics. So it might sound like our conversation is jumping from, uh, foot pain and foot strengthening into, uh, modern footwear and how they affect your, your gait and your health and your foot health, and then into the benefits of walking. But all this material is covered in this really comprehensive book. I think you’re gonna love these great immediate takeaway tips. And also her big picture philosophy where she writes, quote, our survival as a species has hinged on one key factor movement. So we need to understand that walking is not an exercise or a fitness option, but what Courtney describes as an essential, the body needs to be in near constant movement throughout the day in order to function optimally. So Courtney’s a big fan of taking these quick movement snacks where you might get up and walk for just five minutes, but it really helps refresh your brain function and it helps with your musculoskeletal system, all the things that we hear about and nod our heads.
Brad (00:03:17):
But maybe we’re too busy to get out and walk for an hour twice a day, like some of these overly intimidating recommendations. So you’re gonna get a really sensible take on the benefits of walking and the importance of taking care of your feet. Courtney runs a wonderful clinic in Lakewood, Colorado called Total Health Solutions and Total Health Performance. So if you want an expert on the subject, she has been obsessed with the topic of foot health and foot functionality, which is now becoming hot and popular. And when we’re doing all our promoting at Peluva, we go looking for people like Courtney who have been banging the drum for so long. So she’s a big fan. We did not get this episode into a Peluva commercial and talking about the various benefits, but she’s a big fan of what we’re doing. She has proclaimed that she’s dedicating her life to conveying the importance of having footwear that resembles your feet and supports the natural functioning of your feet.
Brad (00:04:16):
So here you go. How does this do for meeting that criteria, <laugh>? Alright, if you wanna go try some Peluvas, I know you’re gonna be all excited, especially after this show, but go to pva.com, P-E-L-U-V-A and use the Code Brad podcast for 15% discount. We are doing all kinds of exciting things these days, including launching some amazing new models like a Winter Boot. So finally, for our cold weather friends out there who look at this nice, breezy, lightweight, warm weather pair of shoes, now there’s a winter boot, so you can have that barefoot inspired footwear in almost any weather conditions. So check out the new Winter Boot. We also have a new court shoe for pickleball and ring related activities. It’s a beautiful leather shoe that you can wear around town as well, and has that nice gummy rubber reinforced sole so you can play side to side sports.
Brad (00:05:15):
So we’re trying to get as many models out there for doing as many things as possible. Back to Courtney’s show. She talks about this concept of 24-hour foot clock, where yes, indeed, if you’re working construction or you like to wear heels for a fashionable reason, go ahead wear those shoes. You wanna wear your elevated cushion shoes for a long distance run, that’s fine too. But we wanna continually emphasize this concept of trending gracefully in the direction of barefoot functionality. The book Walk is going to help you with that goal right away, motivating, inspiring, one of the world’s top resources on Foot Health. Dr. Courtney Conley. Courtney Conley, I’m so glad to join you for the wondrous occasion of your new book. It’s so nice to, it’s called Walk: Rediscover the Most Natural Way to Boost Your Health and Longevity One Step at a Time.
Brad (00:06:09):
As probably a lot of my listeners know, I am so excited to see this book hit the shelves on the heels of Marxist and I writing Born to Walk, where we focused a lot on the running, the endurance running scene and how walking is, you know, such a, a better option for many people. But we were sitting around, you know, developing the book and trying to figure out the title and the angle and the content, and we thought, well, you know, you can’t write a book just about walking because, you know, it’s too boring. Or what would we say? And now here you are throwing down the world’s leading expert. So it is a really wonderful, uh, thing to see that you’ve done this, uh, great work and hopefully will capture the imagination of millions of people for this fundamental human genetic expectation of health that is walking. So why don’t we start with a little intro of your life’s work and how you got to this point to, to release this new book.
Courtney (00:07:07):
Thank you so much. Yes, it’s, this has been quite a journey. I’ve, I always say I have a healthy obsession of the foot. I’ve been, I’ve started this, geez, I’ve been working with patients now for close to 25 years. And it’s really been wild to see how the industry has changed over that time. I’ve always had a passion for this stuff. I was a dancer and then I was a triathlete and I just suffered from that. That’s hard
Brad (00:07:37):
To hear that.
Courtney (00:07:38):
Yeah. <laugh>, yeah, you can relate. Yes, <laugh>. Um, and I just always suffered from foot pain. It was kind of, you know, my achilles heel, if you will. And I wanted to figure it out. It was kind of my personal quest to figure out what was going on. I ended up working in a couple of orthotic foot orthotic labs and, you know, I was surrounded by that whole scene of making foot orthoses and I had a bunch of them and we were always trying to tweak them and figure things out. And nobody ever had the conversation with me of getting your foot stronger ever. It was just, let’s change the orthotic, or let’s, you know, get a cushier shoe or let’s, you know, do these, um, interventions that at the end of the day didn’t end up making sense to me. And it never really helped me.
Courtney (00:08:30):
So I was grateful enough to be surrounded by some pretty wonderful people, and I started learning, uh, a lot more. And I just kept coming back to the question of why are we treating the foot so much differently than we’re treating the rest of the human body? And I started strengthening my foot, and that’s kind of how this whole thing came to be. And how that swings around to walking is, you know, there, I really think that there’s no other musculoskeletal diagnosis, at least that I have treated that will stop somebody in their tracks as fast as foot pain. It’s that constant pain and signal when you’re moving that something is wrong, something is wrong. And so I’ve seen what it can do to people both physically, mentally, and emotionally. So I was, I was really pretty passionate about this whole project. So here we go.
Brad (00:09:24):
We should compare all the old time orthotics, maybe open up a museum or something. ’cause I went through all those as in that long time as a endurance runner, as an a triathlete. And you really, looking back now, it was so ridiculous because we’re just trying to, you know, go, go dance around the subject for another, another air quote, to the dancer here. But when you become, uh, frustrated and start to, you know, increase your interest and fascination in strengthening the foot and, and get further education, like, where do you go? How did you educate yourself when the mainstream resources are kind of not ever touching on this?
Courtney (00:10:03):
That’s a great question because there really weren’t many options out there. And Dr. Tommy Michaud he was the author of Human Locomotion, and he wrote that book, and I, I think I’ve read that book probably 20 times. And I ended up getting in contact with him. He has taught me so much. And then I’ve had these mentors that I’ve talked to about all of this stuff. And over the last probably 10 years now, you’re starting to see people really pay attention to the function of the foot and the strength of the foot. And it’s, it makes me excited. I mean, it’s, one of our goals at Gait Happens is to educate people on educating others about how important this is. So hopefully we’re making a dent in that.
Brad (00:10:48):
What is the Gait Happens organization, what do you guys do?
Courtney (00:10:52):
it started, this is actually an interesting story. II think. I have my office here in Lakewood, Colorado, and that’s where I see all my patients. And I started on Instagram posting things that I thought were really interesting about the foot. And this was close to almost, gosh, eight, eight years ago. And it was really new information for a lot of people. And that has progressed into not just an Instagram account, but now we have a, it’s an online educational company. So we have courses for, you know, the movement pros and courses and workshops for the lay person who just wanna get their foot healthy and, you know, different things to facilitate that. So it’s really been quite the journey. I’m very, very grateful. We’ve, you know, I, it’s, I love still getting the emails from people that were like, I used to feel like this and I used to be in this type of footwear, and now I’m feeling, you know, I’m wearing more minimal or functional footwear and everything feels better. I mean, I, it’s, it’s why I do what I do
Brad (00:12:00):
Now. Is there some opposition or resistance when we have the giant world of podiatry or mainstream orthopedic medicine where they, uh, are they gonna frown upon people strengthening their feet? Or is this kind of being embraced in different ways and leaking into mainstream thought in a peaceful manner?
Courtney (00:12:23):
It’s gonna take time. I think there’s a place for everything I really do, and I think the conversation isn’t, or it’s an, and conversation. How can our worlds work together? There is a time and a place for patients to be in foot orthoses. I have always said that, that there is a time and a place for that. I think what we need to talk about is that it should be called orthotic therapy, where when you start utilizing these external devices, they modify loads, which can be great for things like plantar fasciitis, fasci osteopaths, but the conversation should be, and you’re going to wear this and strengthen your foot and increase your mobility so that the ultimate goal should be let this beautiful foot do what it was supposed to do, which is function to support the rest of your body. And then you can slowly start to remove things like that. So, you know, I’m hoping that our worlds can start to work together and say there is a time and a place for both of these interventions, but the ultimate goal really is to have a strong and mobile foot that creates this foundation for the rest of the human body.
Brad (00:13:38):
Well, that’s really beautiful, but that’s not controversial enough where we’re not gonna go viral with this episode unless you start slamming <laugh>. No, that, that’s really well said. And, an example popped into my mind where, you know, I like to do masters track and field sprinting and high jumping, and it’s not easy in the older age groups to absorb those impact forces and, and try to improve and get better. And so with, uh, the great mentors that I have in master’s track and field, like Cynthia Monte Leon and Sue McDonald, they said, oh, you should be, uh, running in elevated cushioned shoes. And I go, I know. I hate those stupid things. I wear Peluvas and I go barefoot. But no, not when you’re 60 and trying to sprint. So I live my whole life in a barefoot inspired manner. And then when I go to the track and I do my main set, I slip into, I like Nike freeze with the, the flexible soul, but the, the cushion that I need to protect my Achilles, so they’re not my Achilles heel anymore.
Brad (00:14:32):
And it’s a nice way to kind of blend these ideas and think, you know, I want to perform. You have a nice section in your book with the drawings about the super shoes and the toe spring and the cushion. And one of the lines that I like, that I pulled out was like, yeah, this stuff really does improve performance because it allows your foot to not have to do the work that it usually does at great expense, long term, to weakening and, and causing atrophy and dysfunction. So if all the runners, we just went to the running shoe convention with our little, uh, modest Peluva booth and saw the giant, you know, leaders in the industry making these giant elevated cushion shoes, and it’s like, Hey, we can all be friends, but I would love for all of you to come over here and realize when you’re finished with your workout Yes. Will you take those crazy things off and return to proper human functionality and range of motion. I mean, I think that, so there we go. We agree on that level. Yeah,
Courtney (00:15:26):
That is the key. That’s the key is that, you know, in the book we talk about this 24 hour shoe clock, and it’s paying attention to when you’re wearing what. There is a, you know, when you’re on the track or you are on a field or whatever it is, there’s going to be a time and a place where you’re gonna choose a certain type of footwear. You wanna wear the super shoe on race day or on your tempo runs great. But also be aware that when you’re not in that type of footwear, allow yourself to be in an environment where your foot has the ability to get stronger. So we’re not saying, Hey, never wear this footwear. No, we’re not gonna win that conversation, you know, time and a place. It’s when you’re not wearing those types of shoes, wear shoes that allow that respect, the anatomy of your foot that allow your foot to function. And that’s where I think that clock is important. You know, it’s, if you were wearing high heels, for example, all day, your eight-hour workday, when you come home, you better take those things off and walk around barefoot, or you better put a different type of shoe on. So you have to just be aware of how much time you’re spending in footwear that’s, you know, potentially deterring your movement.
Brad (00:16:51):
Do you think there’s a massive lack of awareness due to, for example, the marketing forces that have been selling us shoes for years and decades to the extent that we’re just ignoring foot functionality and then going toward, long-term care with the multi-billion dollar industry of, you know, pain relief and orthotics and all the special shoes that we get when we’re seniors?
Courtney (00:17:19):
Oh, yes. I keep saying, you gotta get a little uncomfortable to get comfortable. We live in this, you know, society where it’s, if we even feel a little bit of pain, and we, I talk about this in the book, pain is a signal, it’s a natural thing that happens to us. So when we experience pain, it should be an education tool saying, Hey, maybe we should do something. It’s a signal to our bodies. When we put on more cushion and let’s just, you know, keep putting footwear being more and more aggressive and doing all of this work for us, there’s always a trade off. If you don’t use, you’re gonna look what You’re kidding <laugh>. Yeah, I know these, I’m blowing your mind with all these concepts here. If you don’t use it, you’re gonna lose it, period. So the industry is like, oh, when you put this on, you’re gonna feel so, you know, it’s gonna be protection and comfort. And I challenge you that if you don’t use your foot, you’re going to lose the strength of your foot.
Brad (00:18:25):
Yeah, that seems obvious. When we look at the decline and the rate of chronic pain in people, some of those stats in the book, what, what, what is it? Two thirds of the world are in chronic foot pain right now, or something.
Courtney (00:18:39):
One out of three people over the age of 45 have foot pain. I mean, that is shocking. I think, I mean, well, I mean, I shouldn’t say shocking because I think we know why that is, but that’s a very high number. That’s a high number of people.
Brad (00:18:56):
And certainly it’s getting in the way of them leading healthy, active energetic lifestyle with walking as the centerpiece. Um, so the way we can do something about that, by the way, people, these, all these kind of contents that we’ve jumped around on are, are part of this comprehensive book, which is really great. So, it’s titled Walk and you talk about the benefits of walking and all that, but we’re also talking about the shoe design and the pain and the reason. So, um, it’s a great way to kind of get a comprehensive education about the importance of the foot, the importance of walking <laugh>, that the dangers and the hazards of modern marketplace and the way that we address these problems with symptom relief rather than improving the, the cause of the pain.
Courtney (00:19:44):
I think that when we look at walking, it’s the most easily accessible, underutilized activity that when you look at the numbers, most people are not taking advantage of. And we kind of dive into why that could be time. Always hear that it’s a time, you know, I’m so busy, I have all these things going on. Pain is a big one, you know, and that a lot of that comes from the foot. So I, I see patients every single day where we have the conversation of, you’re gonna walk for five minutes today, because we have to bring that baseline down because a lot of my patients are afraid to put their foot on the ground. So you have that spectrum where that step count is very, very low. And this is an activity that I think we really need to take a step back and say, as clinicians, this should be on everyone’s prescription pad. Because the benefits that you can get from something that we as humans were designed to do, we should all be taking advantage of.
Brad (00:20:55):
Yeah. I mean, you, you put this beautiful line in there. Our survival as a species has hinged on one key factor movement. And Mark and I really pounced on that concept when we were working on Born to Walk and doing some evolutionary biology research and realizing like the human species is designed to move throughout the day in order to be healthy. It’s not like an optional recreational idea that I’m gonna read Courtney’s book and start walking. It’s like, if you’re not doing it, you’re, you’re literally not expressing your humanity. Yeah.
Courtney (00:21:28):
It’s a, I want people to start thinking that walking is a physiological necessity, not exercise. Right? You breathe, you sleep, you walk. It’s not, it’s not exercise. It is something that as a biped, when we’re walking, we’re, when we are on our two feet, we were designed to do. And that daily, regular lower intensity movement has an impact on every single system in our body, from our cardiovascular system to our nervous system, to our lymphatic system. So there’s a reason why we were designed to have repetitive steps on our feet. And when you look at how each system is affected, it’s like, come on, this is, we should be screaming this from the mountaintops.
Brad (00:22:14):
Yeah, you did a good job in the book talking about the adverse effects of not walking. Because I think most people will nod their head when they hear us hearing about how beneficial walking is, and you get brain derived neurotropic factor, and if you get more steps, you have less chance of cognitive decline. All that stuff’s great, but I don’t think it’s been highlighted enough that sitting causes disastrous health consequences really quickly. I referenced a stat in born to Walk where, um, sitting, sitting still for as little as 20 minutes generates a noticeable decline in glucose tolerance, increase in insulin resistance. So you stop getting good at burning fat after 20 minutes of stillness. And you also experience a decline in brain function when you try to sit and concentrate for longer than 20 minutes. And then how do you best take a break? And getting up and walking is within reach of, you know, virtually everyone.
Courtney (00:23:11):
One of my favorite parts of the book are the movement snacks. So at the end of each chapter, we have these movement snacks that you can integrate throughout your day so that you can break up these moments of no activity. We also talk about something called a micro walk, which is literally five minutes. And five minutes is about 500 steps. You can put that in throughout your day and it will make such a big impact at the end of the day. You know, the other thing too, and I used to live in this category was when I was training, I’d be like, okay, I’m gonna get on my bike, or I’m gonna, you know, work out for two hours in the morning, and then I thought I was good. And then I’d go sit at my desk or have all these zoom calls and then literally not do anything. But I was like, I got my workout in in the morning. And then I look at my step count at the end of the day and I’m going, oh my gosh. I’m like, I could barely,
Brad (00:24:05):
It’s 5.1 miles ’cause you ran five in the morning, <laugh>. That’s it.
Courtney (00:24:10):
And that’s not, that’s not why if we viewed walking as exercise, then yes, fine, we have that conversation. That’s not what it does. Walking should be integrated throughout the day as a necessity to keep our system moving and healthy. So when I’ve kind of reframed that, it’s really helped me also say, I can still do my training, but I’m gonna find time for even five minutes when I drop my daughter off at basketball, or I’m waiting for her to get picked up. I just park the car and I go for five minutes. I, I find little ways to kind of sneak that in. And I’ll tell you, for someone like me, this is what it does. It, it, it lowers my nervous system. So that’s what why I need it.
Brad (00:24:58):
Brain expert Dr. Tommy Wood was just talking about how it lowers chronic stress hormone levels. Yeah. As soon as you, as soon as you get up and move, and those intangible benefits, which I guess maybe they’re now tangible and, and research validated, but the mood elevating benefits and the, the, the chance to like, uh, process through the problems and stresses of the day in a, in a different way, because you’re walking, I think there’s some commentary that the multitasking aspect of walking, even though it’s so simple and rote, it allows you to access sort of a different brain space than sitting and stressing, staring at the screen. That, that is, is the source of your stress. <laugh>.
Courtney (00:25:43):
It is a very complex movement. I don’t think people realize everything that happens because it’s subconscious when you’re walking. I mean, there is a lot going on between what we’re feeling from the ground in visual inputs, in vestibular inputs, what we see, what we hear, you know, our body, our musculoskeletal system. Like there are so many things happening and it is quite complex. But again, we don’t really think about it because it just happens subconsciously. But that’s why I think why, you know, I always go back to the foot, but you have to be able to feel, you have to be able to feel things. And if we compromise the function from the ground up, all of those things that we take for granted in a walking gait cycle, that’s going to, that’s going to be compromised if we cannot feel things
Brad (00:26:36):
Now, are the highly constructed elevated heel, heavily cushioned shoes, compromising that field to a significant extent.
Courtney (00:26:46):
So I’m gonna grab Eddie.
Brad (00:26:50):
Oh, hi Eddie. If you’re, if you’re listening and not watching, she is now playing around with a skeleton of the human foot. And I imagine that’s lifelike, but you were just bending and squeezing that thing. It’s incredible. The it’s ing what it does, the range of motion of all those joints,
Courtney (00:27:09):
The bottom of the foot. We have so many sensory receptors. If you think of this foot as almost a sensory organ. If you look at any baby on the planet, they take their socks off. It’s, they’re little feet are, are trying to gather information for neurological development. Our foot is a feeler. It feels things and it helps us stay upright. It helps us maintain balance. So when we start putting a lot of stuff, material, highly cushion, start changing the geometry of what we put underneath the foot, you’re going to compromise some of that sensory information. You’re going to decrease some of that sensory acuity that we should be gathering from the ground. So again, we go back to that 24 hour shoe clock. Does that sound like a good idea to be in a shoe that’s gonna compromise your sensory acuity all day long? Probably not. So if you have to wear your highly cushioned shoe for whatever activity it is, I would highly encourage that you have another type of shoe that puts your foot on the ground, walk around barefoot for five minutes, gather some information so that you can really start to feel what it feels like to engage your foot on the ground.
Brad (00:28:43):
You had some interesting sighting in there about how the speed of one’s gait can be predictive of longevity and how speeding up your walking pace can deliver further health benefits. Maybe we could talk a little bit about that.
Courtney (00:28:59):
Oh, I love, I love this conversation. There was research in 2009 where a couple of researchers said, Hey, we think that walking speed should be the sixth vital sign.
Brad (00:29:15):
Whew.
Courtney (00:29:17):
It’s a big, that’s a big statement, right? ’cause when you think vital sign, you go to the doctor, the first thing they do, they check your temperature, they check, check your blood pressure, your oxygen saturation. These are very big markers that if something is awry there, it’s like, time out. We gotta figure this out because this can be a predictor of disease in putting walking speed saying we’re gonna take walking speed and we’re going to couple it with these five vital signs, I think is a very big statement. And it’s very interesting because when you look at the science behind a walking pace, so how fast you are walking, the slower one walks can be a predictor of things like dementia. And so from someone who assesses gait all the time, I’m always looking at that. How fast are you walking? And why are you walking so slowly? Is it that you can’t feel the ground? Are you afraid? Is there a history of falls? Is there a difficulty with propulsion? Do you have a weakness in your foot and ankle? Is there some type of cognitive issue going on? So I was really excited to read that because that’s something we can work on is improving walking pace.
Brad (00:30:40):
I wonder, just to be devil’s advocate, like could there be a personality aspect where I have a busy, stressful life in the office and at home and when I walk I like to take my time ’cause I’m a really chill person and I go slow, even though I’m super fit, it can break three hours in the marathon type of aspect anywhere in there.
Courtney (00:30:59):
Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I would, that’s why it’s, you know, how fast are you walking? But do you have the capacity mm-hmm <affirmative>. To walk this fast? Right. I mean, it’s interesting when you look at the research, there is a lot of research, um, that we found relating, um, speed with cancer risk. And one of the studies we looked at was there were over 300,000 participants. So it was a big study. And those who walked for at a pace of four miles per hour,
Brad (00:31:35):
15 minute mile
Courtney (00:31:37):
Okay. Had a decreased risk of five different types of cancers. Now I don’t know if any of you have actually walked four miles per hour, but I would encourage you to get on a treadmill, put the speed to four miles an hour and walk for 30 minutes. Because I would challenge you. I think a lot of people would find that more difficult than it, than it should be.
Brad (00:32:04):
Oh, really? Wow. Okay.
Courtney (00:32:07):
You add in I live in, in the mountains, so I’m always looking at my speed and what’s happening when I’m walking up a hill, maintaining a speed of 3.5 to 4.0 miles per hour and you add in hills or you add in variation can be extremely challenging for some people. So that is a, something that can be trained, it can be something that we work on. And I really would encourage people to, to assess that.
Brad (00:32:39):
That’s interesting. You added the other mechanical possible reasons besides just basic lack of fitness because it’s probably, you know, the person is walking slow, maybe they’re not out of breath, but maybe their coordination, their balance, their foot strength, and those things that you mentioned are contributory reasons. Maybe they’re, you know, they can pedal a bicycle. Okay. But, um, they, they need to work on their foot strength, even if they think they’re fit enough to, you know, to pass.
Courtney (00:33:10):
If you’ve ever seen someone who has a history of foot pain, I love, I mean, watching, watching someone walk is so beautiful to me. Yeah. When you, when this foot hits the ground, it’s a grazing of the heel. When our, when we feel the heel, we get a lot of information about what’s happening and that foot hits the ground and then we can roll through. It’s like rolling the earth away.
Brad (00:33:37):
Yeah. I was gonna ask you about that statement and what that really means. So we can think about the, what you want us to think about that through the stride pattern that begins with, to be clear people, it begins with the heel striking the ground in the human walking gait, but not the running gait. That’s a inappropriate running form. So Courtney’s talking about the correct human walking gait, rolling the earth away.
Courtney (00:34:03):
There is walking gait is different than running gait. We are in a walking gait. We are designed to graze that heel. We have a beautiful fat pad on the calcaneus that gives us information. So if I was walking and I was hitting hot and heavy, right? I’m reaching my foot out in front of me and I land heavy and I can feel that it’s gonna tell my brain, Hey, ease up a little bit. Chill out. Bring your foot closer to your body. Mm. This is, this is why when we have too much stuff underneath the heel, <laugh>, you can’t feel any of that. So you’re taking
Brad (00:34:41):
Away, you can’t tell how your form is. That’s
Courtney (00:34:43):
Right.
Brad (00:34:44):
Because there’s too much padding. Yeah.
Courtney (00:34:46):
So then that heel hits the ground and it starts that cascade of the foot unlocking or pronation, which is a mandatory thing that has to happen. So that’s one of the things I’m always telling my patients, let’s get you to find pronation. Let’s get you to control it. How do you do that? You better have a strong foot. So then the foot hits the ground, the foot unlocks, and then you go into push off and it’s like you’re pushing the earth behind you. And it’s this beautiful efficient motion. If you’ve ever seen someone in pain, there is no rocker. There’s no rocker to the foot. It’s almost like they pick up their foot and they place it down, they pick up their foot and they place it down. Yes. Which slows their cadence. And it actually makes it more difficult for them to be efficient. They think that it’s like, I’m going easy, right? ’cause I’m just gonna like step my foot down. But they’re taking away their fascial efficiency that makes walking gait beautiful. And so then they’re like, my hip flexor hurts. And I’m like, well, yes, because you’re lifting up your leg to drop it down over and over and over again,
Brad (00:36:05):
Right? They’re missing out on the kinetic energy potential that’s stored in all the joints of the foot and, and the lower extremities because they’re just stomping through life because their foot is so weak. The starting point for losing that, all that energy potential and increasing the impact trauma.
Courtney (00:36:22):
And so, you know what the solution is? Oh wow, this foot, this shoe feels great. ’cause it rolls me. It’s my, it’s gonna roll me right through. Right? So they put it on and they’re like,
Brad (00:36:33):
Wow, fantastic. Because my toe is so weak. There you go. Hence the,
Courtney (00:36:39):
And then again, nobody gets a free lunch, so you keep wearing that fine, but eventually something is gonna show up. So that’s where I think the education is so important is rather than saying, Hey, let’s just put this on and you’re gonna be good to go. Why? Let’s figure it out. Let’s, let’s do some of these drills. Let’s figure out, maybe it’s increasing your cadence, maybe it’s improving your foot strength. Maybe it’s improving your big toe mobility so that we can then create better movement and efficiency, rather than just saying, go put this shoe on and let it rocker you forward.
Brad (00:37:15):
Yeah. I never thought about it the, the way you just described it, where if you have super weak and atrophied, uh, functionality, the shoe’s gonna be magic.
Courtney (00:37:27):
You’re like, wow, this is great.
Brad (00:37:29):
Yeah.
Courtney (00:37:31):
Then it’s like, is it though
Brad (00:37:33):
Just facilitating a faster decline because now you’ve taken care of that problem? But I guess that’s the way we address many things. It’s kind of comparable to the world of, uh, prescription drugs and, and things like that, that, uh, immediately take away the pain without having to address the cause. So you
Courtney (00:37:51):
Gotta put some work in you get, you really do. And on the other end, when you put the work in, you’re gonna have much better results.
Brad (00:37:58):
And seems like quick progress can happen too, when your starting point is this, you know, really weak and unaddressed area of the body.
Courtney (00:38:08):
I love talking about baselines because it’s the starting point for people. And I, when I talk to my patients, I’m always like, this is an opportunity. We test a lot of toe strength in my office and there’s certain numbers that I look for. How strong is the big toe? How strong are the four toes? And the numbers that we see, some of my patients get pretty upset by what they’re looking at. And I say, don’t get upset. This is room for opportunity for us <laugh>. This is also explaining why you’re having some of the symptoms that you’re having. So this is a good thing to figure out because we can do something about it. And that’s where I get excited about this because I’ve seen a lot of people in a lot of pain that just by starting this, I mean their baseline, let’s say their baseline is 2,500 steps.
Courtney (00:38:58):
If your baseline is 2,500 steps and you increase your step count by 500 steps, that’s a five minute walk. You decrease your all cause mortality by 7%. It’s like, what? Let’s do this. Like, count me in. You double that number. You go a thousand. That decrease in all cause mortality starts to go up and now you’re like, wow, I’m feeling better. I’m sleeping better, I’m breathing better, I’m probably eating better. And so you start to stack behaviors and something that started with a five minute walk now has turned into something that has been life changing.
Brad (00:39:36):
Now, you did mention that this widely cited 10,000 step is sort of a ruse. And maybe you can, uh, explain further about optimal movement patterns and step counts and things.
Courtney (00:39:51):
Yeah. The, the 10,000 step kind of myth if you will. It was started with a, a Japanese pedometer company during the Olympics. And that number just kind of stuck. If you even look in, you know, if you were to Google how many steps should I take per day, that 10,000 step thing has really, really nailed itself in our brains. And it just isn’t, um, backed by science. So when we were doing the research for the book, we found some pretty, some pretty interesting numbers living between 5,000 steps and say 7500, 8500 steps per day. Which, you know, just to throw some numbers at you, um, if someone takes 5,000 steps per day, you can reduce your symptoms of depression. If you take 7,000 steps per day, you can reduce your risk of getting depression. So that number looks very different than 10,000. And I think that should be encouraging to people because sometimes that number looks, it’s daunting. And if we know we can get these health benefits living at 5,000, at 6,000, at 7,000, it’s like, find a way to get that in.
Brad (00:41:09):
Yeah. I mean, uh, the, um, the intimidation factor of throwing out a number that’s too big and daunting or I also like how you say a five minute walk is a wonderful way to start because, um, if, you know, if you’re on a bunch of podcasts saying all you need to do is walk for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening that’s great, but, it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna land as well. So we’re, we’re talking about incremental, incredible incremental benefits available for the, the more you can walk. And I think going back to some stuff you said earlier, um, now we have to orchestrate, which was a big theme throughout your book. And these movement snacks, at the end of every chapter, we have to kind of plan and figure out little clever snacks to take because we’ve engineered walking out of our daily lifestyle for the most part.
Courtney (00:42:00):
You know, I think if you look at the the step count conversation, um, it’s interesting on the other end of it because I also have patients that have come in and said, I’m taking 15,000 steps per day. And then my next question to them is, are you strength training
Brad (00:42:20):
<laugh>
Courtney (00:42:21):
<inaudible>? No. It’s a
Brad (00:42:23):
Tough clinic. People, you’re gonna get through the ringer, gonna do these assessments and get grilled. I love it. I love it.
Courtney (00:42:29):
And then they’ll say, well no, I’m not strength training ’cause I don’t have any time I’m hitting, but I’m hitting 15,000 steps per day. There is a law of diminishing return here. Hmm. So that number from 5,000 to 9,800, that’s our zone. So if you’re someone out there that’s doing 15,000, I would say, Hey, try to fit into that range and then that’ll give you some more time to potentially strength train to do these other things. So I think that’s also an interesting conversation. Like where do you live on that spectrum?
Brad (00:43:01):
Yeah. And to be clear, 15,000 just fine if you’re doing the strength training and the mobility and all that <laugh>, there, there’s no like upper limit. However, when it comes to the endurance athlete community, there is those profound diminishing returns when you’re exceeding your sensible limits of steady state cardiovascular exercise and greatly neglecting things like strength training and then just sending the hormones and the musculoskeletal system out of balance from too much load and hours out there. I think what is great about the content in your book isand the whole message is that you don’t have those risks associated with walking because you’re not going to be driving your heart rate up into the medium to difficult zones where you get those hormonal problems and those immune suppression and all those things. I guess unless you’re going for the Olympics and you’re race walking at six minute mile. But generally speaking, walking is comfortably paced. So it builds the aerobic system appropriately rather than that whole other category of population where they’re pushing the heart and the system too hard.
Courtney (00:44:15):
I mean that, I can’t stress this enough, that regular low intensity movement throughout the day and daily is, is again that physiological necessity. It’s not something that can say, okay, we’re just gonna do, you know, we got our 30 minutes in. It should be something that really, like we talk about is snacked on throughout the day.
Brad (00:44:41):
Yeah. And I think it’d be safe to say that this is a more important objective than launching into a extreme fitness regimen or something that’s by and large, highly regarded the people that show up at the gym five days a week at 6:00 AM and do the bootcamp and do the spinning and do this. But their step count is because they take that hall pass, their step count is two or three or 4,000. They can arguably have more health and longevity benefits from focusing on those movement snacks throughout the day and perhaps toning down the extreme devotion to the other types of fitness.
Courtney (00:45:19):
It’s the “and” conversation. I’m a big fan. I’m a very big fan of the “and” conversation. Right. It’s due this “and” it’s not, or
Brad (00:45:28):
Yeah, it’s, yeah. Yeah.
Courtney (00:45:31):
We forgot about the and part with walking
Brad (00:45:33):
S sometimes it’s, or I, I remember when I was a triathlete and I lived six tenths of a mile away from my mailbox and I got in my car and drove there every evening, you know, the mail come later and, you know, I might’ve ridden my bike 84 miles that day, but I, I refused to ride 0.6 and then back for 1.2 ’cause I was too tired. Yeah. And I, I gave myself the, the credit, but my step count during that times when I was running 40, 50 miles a week and cycling and swimming was probably embarrassingly small. Um, same with, you know, during the tour is another extreme example. Those guys are either sitting on a bike or they’re horizontal laying down in bed or reclining in the, in the team bus. And they’re spending almost no time on their feet because the extreme demand for recovering for the next day’s stage. But I think they lose bone density in three weeks because of that, that they’re not loading their skeleton at all.
Courtney (00:46:28):
Our body needs movement variability. It needs movement options. Walking provides a lot of that variability. It’s a, we, when you think about it’s rotation, walking is all about rotation. So you’re, you’re nourishing your joints, you’re loading your spine, you’re loading your bones, your muscles are active, your nervous system is engaged. So that’s why it’s one of those activities that really hits every system, I think in a way that, you know, others don’t.
Brad (00:47:00):
So for reference, I know the smartphones now will count your steps for you. I didn’t realize that until a couple of years ago. And someone showed me deep in the built-in iPhone software, the, the, the heart you push on that. I had no idea. Uh, but just for reference, like if you’re working at a typical office job and walking around and you go to the third floor twice a day or you go from the parking lot to the elevator, like what is kind of a baseline that someone’s gonna accumulate without even thinking about it, such as walking around the home. Like, are we getting a thousand steps a day in the house? Are we getting 2000 at work? Or where does that land in the, in the realm of all the suggestions that we hear?
Courtney (00:47:40):
Yeah, that’s a great point because there is a difference between ambient walking and intentional walking. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So ambient would be, you know, I’m walking around my house and I’m going up and down the stairs. You know, that’s gonna look different for everybody. But you wanna have both. You wanna be moving throughout your day, but you also wanna have that time where you are intentional about that pace. I think that the, having that fast pace is important. So you wanna have those little blips of that intentional walk in there. It does something different than just your ambient walking around the house. I’ve had plenty of patients, they’ll say to me, I get 8,000 steps when I’m at work. Or, you know, so we have to say, what does that look like? You know, and how do we fit in something that is a little more geared towards what your goals are?
Brad (00:48:30):
Because the ambient is could be comprised of, you know, ten second bouts where you’re not really getting cardiovascular stimulation, but a five minute walk, a 10 minute walk, a 20 minute walk, all that stuff is, is doing well for that, huh?
Courtney (00:48:45):
Yes. Yeah. And you know, it’s better than sitting all day long. Of course. You’re up and moving. So time and a place. And then we wanna find ways. If that intentional walk even means five minutes, we’re going for it.
Brad (00:48:59):
Tell me about your clinic. So you have people coming in to see you to improve their foot health and it’s outside of the general parameter of your family practice sending you a prescription for podiatry and going and getting fitted for orthotics. So what, what kind of population is, is showing up to Lakewood, Colorado?
Courtney (00:49:19):
Oh, it is my, I was telling a friend of mine this the other day. No matter what kind of day I am having when I walk into that clinic, I’m like, it’s my happy place. To be able to do this work and help these people has been just such a blessing to me. Um, I see people from all walks of life. I see people that have been in chronic foot pain to the point where I’ve had patients come in in wheelchairs because they’re afraid to put their foot on the ground. That gets into that conversation of chronic pain, which is a whole nother, we have a pain chapter in the book. ’cause I think it’s extremely important to address pain is complicated. I can’t just tell say to a patient, I know you’ve been in pain for three years, but you’re gonna go out and get 7,000 steps.
Courtney (00:50:14):
It doesn’t work like that. They have to trust the process. They have to trust their bodies. They have to regain confidence in themselves and in movement. And that happens in very small increments. I had a patient the other day that had basically been in her house for three years because of foot pain. So you can imagine this was no longer just a musculoskeletal diagnosis. This was now a mental and emotional, a very, a much bigger animal. And so we started on three one minute walks a day, and I’ve had many patients. And then we build now that’s on one end of the spectrum. On the other end of the spectrum is people that have repetitive injuries or they’re running a lot or they’re, you know, we have these a totally different scenario if we’re working with them on all different diagnoses in the foot.
Courtney (00:51:18):
You know, one of the probably most common things that I see is heel pain. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Heel pain and big toe pain. But with heel pain, if you were to Google, I have heel pain, what should I do? And what you’ll see is get some type of foot orthosis, get a very highly cushioned shoe and stretch your calves. Those are probably the three things. Or put a water bottle in the freezer and then you can roll your foot on that. I know, you know, there’s a lot more to it than that. And so I love having those conversations of you’re gonna take that shoe off, we’re gonna start doing these exercises. We’re gonna start inviting the plantar fascia’s best friend back to the party, which is flexor digitorum brevis. Let’s get that foot strong. So I love all different types of cases there. And it, um, it’s really, it really is my joy.
Brad (00:52:15):
So, uh, what’s, what’s it called? Is it part of the medical system or is this an independent place where you go as like a cash pay to focus on this area of health? Like how, how do you attract people to, to come?
Courtney (00:52:28):
How do I attract people to come? Well, that’s a good question. When I, first word of mouth,
Brad (00:52:33):
Theo.
Courtney (00:52:33):
Yes. When I first started this, I was by myself. I had a clinic in Chicago and then I moved to Colorado and I would literally hang out in shoe stores <laugh>, like I would, I became very good friends with all of my local shoe stores because I would go in there and see what types of shoes people were walking in. Mm. And I would talk to them and we would put on little workshops of foot health workshops. And, you know, then I became the, the foot girl in the area. And so then it was word of mouth and then the, the podcast started coming and I think people started gravitating towards this type of work. So that’s, um, that’s kind of how that all started.
Brad (00:53:17):
Do you see, endurance runners who are heavy users of the elevated cushion shoes and the super shoes and are, are seeking to counteract that with. What do they get from you? Like exercise protocols and
Courtney (00:53:32):
All the time. Okay. Our running population, I love, you know, you love Freedom Runners. I’m a runner and it was amazing to me with the miles that I was putting on my body. And when I started doing this stuff, I was like, wow, I can do 10 single leg calf raises. That’s probably not great. When I’m looking at the science going at my decade, I should be able to do 30, 35 single leg calf raises. And I’m doing a sport that is basically a single leg hop over and over again. Yeah. That’s always very eyeopening for my running population when it’s like, Hey, your foot should be able to do this. Mm. You should have this much plantar flexion strength. You should be able to splay your toes. And that’s when we have those conversations of is it really that odd that you’re having achilles pain? Is it really that odd that the bottom of your heel hurts? Because again, there just hasn’t been those conversations of when you have your strength days, you need to strength train below your knee.
Brad (00:54:33):
Right. Not just squats completely overlooked. Yeah.
Courtney (00:54:36):
You know, it’s overlooked. It’s overlooked.
Brad (00:54:38):
So the book, maybe you can describe that section and cover anything else that we didn’t get to that’s in the book, but the section about the exercises and strengthening, I think will be really easy to do it yourself and get right on this as soon as you grab the book. Yeah.
Courtney (00:54:54):
You know, we wanted to really talk about the importance of strength training and even power training. I think people are getting on board with, I need to be stronger as I age. Right? We have sarcopenia and we know that we lose muscle mass and it’s difficult to maintain those things. So strength is important. I think the other conversation that we really need to also have is power training, which is basically being able to move quickly, underweight. So for example, um, one of the things we talk about in the book is as you’re walking, you could start doing walking lunges for example. You add in a strength component here. If you wanted to turn that into power, you would do your lunge, go down for a count of three, for example, and then you pop up as quick as you can. So you’re moving with speed.
Courtney (00:55:46):
And then of course you can add weight to that. But I think that conversation of power, you know, we think of training power for athletes, right? Like, I gotta train power, I need to sprint. Power is so much more than that. Power is being quick reactively. So if I’m walking across the street and a car starts coming, I need to be able to get outta the way. I need to be able to step off of a curb and say, oh no, I have the reactivity to move quickly. Power is being able to climb a flight of stairs, get up and out of a chair with efficiency and not losing that mobility and strength to do it. So I think that conversation of power is very, very important for everyone on this planet. And that’s also one of the things we wanted to focus on is you can power train by guess what? Walking very fast up a up an incline. Or for some of you just walking very fast because that is power through your foot that is propulsion through your foot. Get me excited over your foot.
Brad (00:56:53):
Kind of disregarded that in, in, in general, especially, you know, the, there’s uh, people who are interested in active energetic lifestyle as they get older and they’re doing pretty good at walking. You wrote about that a little bit in, in the book. But they, you know, neglect the, the power, the speed, and then you’re kind of getting some deficiencies there just due to aging. And then we have our younger population doing extreme and narrow, narrowly focused athletic events, and then only being able, able to do 10 calf raises, even though you can run a half marathon. Congratulations. But, yeah, that could be a little issue. I remember finding some of those functional weaknesses, you know, in my passion for sprinting and then going and getting assessed by physical therapy being like, oh crap, is that bad? Is that trouble? Yeah, it is, dude. So time to do your, uh, uh, what was it? The reverse single leg, uh, bridge for the hamstrings. Yeah. And the, the doctor showed it to me and I collapsed to the ground immediately and realized, okay, I guess I better go to work there with the reverse bridge. Yeah.
Courtney (00:58:03):
We have, um, all these assessments in the book. So there’s an assessment chapter. So it’s, can you do these things, you know, and it starts from basic things like toe yoga, being able to lift your big toe and being able to lift your four toes.
Brad (00:58:15):
Not easy,
Courtney (00:58:17):
Not easy.for some people can you spread your toes? And then we get into things like calf raises. And so I think it’s a very good way to assess where you are from the knee down in particular. How well are, how well are you aware of how well your foot and ankle are moving? And that’s where it starts, is awareness, because again, opportunity, you can’t know if you need to work on something if you don’t know.
Brad (00:58:44):
Right, right. This has been great. Before you go, I know we’ve talked a lot about the damage caused by the elevated cushioned shoes, and I know you’re a big fan of what we’re doing at Peluva and the minimalist shoe world and have the drawings and the recommendations in the book about getting those shoes that have wider space for your feet. What do you think overall of this, burgeoning movement of minimalist footwear and how it’s, you know, flooding into mainstream acceptance and shoe design for different models and all that?
Courtney (00:59:16):
It’s on, it is my mission to educate people on the importance of this type of footwear. I mean, it comes down to basic anatomy. Look at the shoe. It should respect the anatomy of your foot, the widest part, I mean, it, it’s, you know, like the widest part of your foot should be your toes. Mm-hmm
Brad (00:59:37):
<affirmative>.
Courtney (00:59:37):
So there better be space in between your toes. That toe box better be wide enough and the shoe should move with your foot. It’s, it is it sound. When I talk to people about it, they’re like, well, that makes sense. I’m like, sure does, doesn’t it? But that the conversation, and we talk about this also is if you’ve been living in very highly cushioned footwear or very supportive footwear, when you hear this information, you are also going to go, well, that makes a lot of sense. I’m gonna ditch all my shoes and just go wear minimal footwear. Now, don’t do that. It’s transition. Right. Start slow. Wear the footwear that allows, that’s harder to wear because there’s more loads going through your foot. There are more loads going through your ankle, but guess what? That’s the environment you get stronger in. So go lightly. And then that becomes a very, and then my pace this is my favorite thing to hear. Wow. Now that I wear this type of footwear, I can’t believe I wore that other type of footwear. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I’m like, yeah, tell me about it.
Brad (01:00:43):
Yeah. You, you can’t go back. It’s just too annoying and Yeah.
Courtney (01:00:46):
Yeah. And when you put your foot in, um, when your foot starts to splay in, widen and get stronger, and you put your foot back into shoes that you have been wearing where your foot literally is restricted and you feel your toes like start to compress, you’re gonna be, wow, how did I wear this for so long? It’s no wonder my bunion hurts.
Brad (01:01:12):
Yeah.
Courtney (01:01:13):
So, yes, very big fan. And I will continue to passionately educate on that because I do think that if we, especially with our children, for example, we get them in the right footwear, we educate people on the type of footwear that they can wear, that my clinic will be less busy. Throw me into retirement.
Brad (01:01:32):
<laugh>. Yeah. Your mission. I love it. <laugh>
Courtney (01:01:35):
Boy, I don’t think you’ll ever retire, by the way. But, you know, I do think that if we get, we get in the right foot where we pay attention to strengthen mobility of the foot, that this is a we’re having a very different conversation here.
Brad (01:01:47):
Thank you so much for taking the time. Your book is great. It’s gonna change a lot of, a lot of lives. I think people can embrace it really easily. It’s well written and clear and the actionable ideas are throughout. So of course we can find this book anywhere books are sold. And you have some pre-order promotions, so the official release date is May of 26th, but we can, we can order this thing as soon as this show is published. And then how else can we connect with you and love what you’re doing?
Courtney (01:02:17):
Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I love educating on this stuff. Uh, gait happens, uh, dot com is our kind of website where all this information lives. Dr. Courtney Conley is also, we put all our podcasts on there, so there’s other places to hear this information. Yeah. And those would be the the best resources.
Brad (01:02:36):
Dr. Courtney Conley, thank you so much. Great show. Thanks for listening, watching everybody go get the book walk. Thank you so much for listening to the B.rad Podcast. We appreciate all feedback and suggestions. Email, podcast@bradventures.com and visit brad kearns.com to download five free eBooks and learn some great long cuts to a longer life. How to optimize testosterone naturally, become a dark chocolate connoisseur and transition to a barefoot and minimalist shoe lifestyle.
