Get ready for a wild ride with the multi-faceted Dr. Anna Cabeca, author of an exciting new book, Keto Green 16, and also The Hormone Fix. Dr. Anna is an OBGYN with a deep interest in holistic health, alternative healing strategies, menopause, sexual health, and pulling yourself out of health destruction and accelerated aging with integrative strategies that emphasize lowering your overall life stress level.
This show covers a ton of ground and you will probably have to hit the replay button a few times to get a full appreciation for her insights. Anna talks about andropause and menopause, the do’s and don’ts of hormone replacement therapy, how stress hormones mess things up for us when it comes to sexual health and rate of aging, and how oxytocin ― the so-called “love hormone” that promotes feelings of bonding and connection ― is an all-powerful key to happiness, sexual health and aging gracefully. Lower stress, raise oxytocin and you will be inspired to pursue more oxytocin producing behaviors. When you are dragging ass and don’t feel like doing or being happy, that’s when you might need an intervention.
Echoing the message from a previous show with Dr. Michael Platt, Dr. Anna discusses the wide-ranging benefits for both men and women of bio-identical progesterone ― particularly for neuroprotective benefits. Dr. Anna relates how she nearly fell apart as she approached the big 5-0 ― brain fog, mood disturbances, weight gain, PTSD, and acidic pH. She was a hot mess but she turned everything around and then started honing and testing a healing protocol that eventually became the Keto Green 16 program. “Why settle for just normal aging, when our rate of aging is so accelerated? Let’s talk about being that aging couple who stand out from the crowd ― attractive, fit, happy, in love ― living their best life.” Yes, you will enjoy this visit with Dr. Anna and learn some fresh new insights.
TIMESTAMPS:
Brad introduces Dr. Cabeca who specializes in menopause and sexual health. [04:02]
What shall we do about menopause symptoms? Do you want to be normal? [07:12]
Regarding lab tests, one needs to do some research. A woman’s testosterone level is often misread as it has been compared with men’s level. [10:49]
It takes more than hormones to fix our hormones. We don’t want to suppress menopause and andropause any more than we’d want to suppress puberty and our kids. [13:47]
How does a male navigate andropause? [15:30]
Oxytocin is the most powerful hormone of your body. [18:09]
Adrenals are needed to take over when testosterone drops in the example of andropause. [24:51]
With PTSD the cortisol production goes up, and the oxytocin goes down and you don’t feel love. [29:01]
When women’s progesterone starts to decline, in our thirties, forties, we start getting other symptoms like anxiety, insomnia, irritability, decreased libido. [34:12]
Dr. Anna talks about her problems with weight fluctuation and how it related to her hormonal imbalance. [39:37]
The foods we eat as well as the people with whom we eat, support our body’s hormonal system. [44:13]
In the Keto Green 16 system, they are creating insulin sensitivity, managing cortisol. [47:58]
What is expected and what kind of commitment is needed to join the Keto Green Community? [54:29]
LINKS:
LISTEN:
Get Over Yourself Podcast
Brad (00:04:02):
Get ready for a wild and crazy show with Dr. Anna. Cabeca, an internationally acclaimed expert in menopause and sexual health and the Ketogenic diet. She just wrote a fantastic new book called Keto Green 16, and she’s put real live human patients through her 16 day protocol to turn things around and generated amazing weight loss results, vitality results, people going off of prescription medication. And you’re going to love her holistic approach. She has a broad experience in all kinds of alternative medicine, as well as board certified gynecology obstetrics.
Brad (00:04:41):
She’s been in the medical system for so long. She’s also a healer from a lot of health challenges over her lifetime. She relates about petty sickly fallen apart around the age, big Five-O with all those menopause symptoms, she had brain fog and was struggling, gained a whole bunch of weight. And then she found the Ketogenic diet. She lost 80 pounds. She thought everything was great. And then started to get a little funny. She said she went Keto crazy with instability, mood swings, gaining back 20 pounds and feeling really frustrated and digging deeper into the science and the interplay between hormones. Uh, the popular male obsession with testosterone. The females are obsessed with estrogen. We both can benefit from the love hormone, oxytocin, how to get more of that into our lives and less cortisol. The crazy stress hormone that we overproduce in chronic fight or flight stimulation and destroy our health.
Brad (00:05:40):
She has some wonderful anecdotes from traveling around the world, meeting with natural healers, the studly doctor in Brazil, who rip city and has sex all the time at the age of 78. You’re going to love this wild. So she’s got a lot of personality and you’ll learn a lot, take a lot of notes. I took a lot of notes just trying to keep up. So play it slow, play it again. Learn about testosterone, estrogen, oxytocin, progesterone, and you’ve heard of alkaline forming foods and acid forming foods. Now we’re going to talk about alkaline forming lifestyle behaviors. It’s Dr. Anna Cabeca author of Keto green 16. And before that, the hormone fix, I think you’re going to love it. Here we go.
Brad (00:06:29):
Dr. Anna, Cabeca ,Keto Green 16 hitting it hard. You just told me that you’re just doing this interview binge, really trying to get the word out. So I’m so glad to catch up to you and hear all about your new book and also your expertise and the, uh, the, the hormonal health for males and females, especially as they go on into the upper age groups. And I’m so interested in that, and I’ve talked so much about the testosterone boosting behaviors that Brad Kearns suggests and isn’t that great. So I’d love to get some time to talk about some of the female considerations and how to optimize female health as, as we get older and want to be the best we can be.
Dr. Anna (00:07:06):
I am all ready to talk about it. I’m excited that my favorite things to discuss,
Brad (00:07:13):
all right, let’s go right into the female aspect in case they’re busy. Female listeners want to drop off after 20 minutes. Of course they’re not going to because it’s going to be so riveting, but what do we, what do we do about this, this whole deal here with, um, menopause. You hear about the complaints that concerns, um, tips and tricks. Should you take hormones? Should you not? Let’s set the whole thing straight here.
Dr. Cabeca (00:07:34):
Yeah. And also like the normal transition worse versus optimal, right? Like, there’s that concept of, okay, my labs are normal, but I still don’t feel right. Or, you know, I’m just plugging away, powering through. Right. And, and versus, well, how can I be better? How can I even be more optimal? Right. And that’s what we want to do.
Brad (00:07:56):
I love you jumping in there because we go to the doctor, we take blood tests, everything looks normal, everything looks fine. Uh, we routinely, you know, we have our reference points of our peers. And so we sit back and think it’s okay to be turning on the television and watching other people perform for the last half of our life or what have you. And even with the blood values on view, if you want to, um, come up with some examples, that’s cool too. But you know, uh, the testosterone experts I talked to you don’t want normal because normal, sorryass. You’re talking about a bunch of fat, tired, sick humans that eat the wrong foods and don’t exercise. So yeah. We’re going to optimize with Dr. Anna here.
Dr. Anna (00:08:34):
Absolutely. You know, I always tell clients, you know, like if you want to be known, I mean, just look at normal labs, we’ll draw your normal comparisons. Right. So if you said you can do this anywhere at any big grocery store, whatever, Walmart just sit outside Walmart and eight out of 10 people walking in and out of Walmart are your normal comparisons. Do you want to be normal? That’s the, or do you want to be that one or two that is just like, you know, has a smile on her face and hooking arms with her husband of 20 or 30 years and are just.
Brad (00:09:06):
20 years younger, maybe who knows.
Dr. Cabeca (00:09:09):
And I don’t know, but, um, you know, that just love that, you know, committed that soul loving relationship, right? Like, and how good that feels and how good that feels. Right. That’s what we, that’s what we want to see. We want to be optimal. And, and that makes a difference. Cause when I first started out and this is a fun to say, and again, also for the men that are, listen, hang on, because you need to know this. And I often too, Brad will always tell guys is I teach about hormones for men. There’s often the things that you do not want to say to women about their hormones. So, so maybe we’ll hit on a couple of those fun points too, but what is really critical it’s I understand it’s like, well, way back in 1999 here, and I was Emory university trained, but I consider one of the best institutions in our nation. I was trained there and I came to practice in Southeast Georgia. And one of the first clients coming in, it was this five foot 11 silver hair at 63 year old CEO of a biotech firm.
Dr. Anna (00:10:07):
And she said to me, she was dr. Anna. First of all, I’ve been waiting as soon as I heard you were coming down and you were from Emory, I made an appointment with you because there’s no other female physicians, you know, in Southeast Georgia number one. But, um, she goes, I was diagnosed with breast cancer and our Bristol carcinoma in situ. So not breast cancer, but Bristol carcinoma, breast carcinoma in sight too. And I was told I couldn’t have any hormones and you know, no estrogen. And she goes, you know, my vaginal dryness, I have pain when we try to have sex, I don’t even want to have sex. And she goes, Dr. Anna, I am a woman of the sixties and I’d rather die than live this way. So help me. Right. And I was like, Oh, of course, that’s my job. I’m a doctor here.
Dr. Anna (00:10:49):
I am. Dr. Anna, let me look. I’m trained at a great place. Let me look at my doctor’s bag. What do I have? I’m looking, I’m looking, I’m looking, I’m like, shit, I don’t have anything for you. So I go to the research. I was a researcher actually for the us Navy. I thought you’d like that. I did research and diving medicine and hyperbaric medicine before I went to medical school. So I just started digging into the research, doing my pub med searching and, and, um, and I, um, started finding that, well, if you vaginal estrogen, isn’t contraindicated in women with breast cancer. In fact, the research shows, I mean, this is what now 20, 30 years ago, the research 20 years ago, this, that, um, women who have had history of breast cancer and use vaginal estrogen, not even ductal carcinoma in situ, but breast cancer and use vaginal estrogen have, have a better quality of life and longevity than women who don’t.
Dr. Anna (00:11:38):
And that was really an empowering thing. And then I went on to understand testosterone DHA. And how does that function at the cellular level? What was the mechanism of action? How can that work? How can we use that to our favor and will that increase or decrease the risk of breast cancer? No increased risk. So, okay, well, let’s use some testosterone. We’ll do some vaginal testosterone. We’ll work on this and, you know, and, and fine tuning in a, in a very, like, I start low, go slow with hormones. Hormones are powerful drugs, powerful chemicals. So here I, I worked with her to help her with that. And that just, that did help her, that improved her quality of life. And she was ecstatic. And let me tell you, I recently ran into her. So she’s in her early eighties now, 83, published a book, still lobbying on Capitol Hill.
Dr. Anna (00:12:27):
And, uh, I had seen her a couple years back too, and she was in crutches cause she was skiing the black slopes. I’m like, okay, that is rocking 80, right at 63, what could have happened? Her trajectory would have been very, very different and you know, and being able to see that quality of life, quality improvement. Now I’ve been in medicine for 30 years. So I’ve seen, that’s what I want to see. I want to see us have a better tomorrow than we have today. But back to that lab value, which is why I got off on this tangent, Brad, to begin with was I did her labs back in 99. Testosterone was zero and it was read as normal cause they were just looking at testosterone and men. And I was like, wait, wait, wait again. I was a chemist before med school. I’m like, well, how is that even possible on with the lab company? Oh, because we’re using mass spectrometry. Now we’re doing, you know, different types of testing that are more sensitive and we can look at this better. Plus there are many better ways to look at hormones and we do need to look at them in all ways, urine, saliva, blood serum. So that can all give us a different picture.
Brad (00:13:30):
So I suppose if you’re feeling lousy, you want to look beyond the traditional approach, which, uh, in the example that you tell the woman, uh, it sounds like you did some, uh, unusual, controversial experimental treatments on her that I’ve never heard of.
Dr. Anna (00:13:47):
Well, well, well, yeah, well justified and well consented. And, and since then that has been certainly my specialty. But at then this is what I write my books about, that it takes more than hormones to fix our hormones. Hormones are just a part of the picture. And in my hormone prescribing practice, again, a little bit goes a long way in the right client. We want to do as much as we can before we go to hormones or, you know, if, if we still need them, once we we’ve restored the body’s natural production and balance, which is key because transitions are important, as important as puberty is. So as menopause and andropause, that is, those are not disease processes. They are natural, there’s a rewiring and there’s a reason for it. So we don’t want to suppress those transitions. We don’t want to suppress menopause and andropause any more than we’d want to suppress puberty and our kids.
Dr. Anna (00:14:36):
Right. And I think that’s a really important point to make because I’m seeing it suppress here, stay on birth control pills till your mid fifties. And then we’ll take you off on more, you know, here’s testosterone just to give you these super physiologic levels without ever asking why. And I think that’s, and again, it’s never just about one hormone. It takes more heart, more than hormones to fix your hormones. So as I started getting more skilled in functional medicine and biogenical hormones, I had my own, you know, hormone, hell I um, recognized how detoxification and this whole, like what I write about my Keto Green way is an important new nourishing, uh, principle and lifestyle principle that combined is, is powerful rejuvenating reinvigorating, which goes beyond just supplementation. That’s why it takes more than hormones to fix our hormones.
Brad (00:15:30):
Oh, so menopause and andropause are normal. We know all about menopause. You can’t can’t fight that one too well. Uh, but tell me about andropause and what the male can expect to do as a healthy, natural process and how to navigate that. And then same for the female navigating the inevitable menopause. But I haven’t heard andropause is spoken about as inevitable or even desirable. It seems like the baseline reaction or the marketing glitz out there is that if you can pump yourself up with hormones, you can be, uh, the 80 year old guy that’s, that’s hitting on your 80 year old client and seeing if they can go ski black diamond and then have some fun in the condo after.
Dr. Anna (00:16:09):
Well, and it’s more than that, right? It’s the, it’s the eighty year old guy hitting on the 30 year old client. Right. Right. And this is where physiology drives behavior. Testosterone’s a powerful drug. And it can certainly, as we see increased novelty seeking behaviors and in excess increase the divorce rate. So no lie there, right. I always tell clients, you know, men have Viagra and testosterone and women are just giving vaginal estrogen, which is a weak substitute for, you know, true restorative and regenerative vaginal health. So not to mention libido health. So again, my book’s about it.. My blogs about it. But I think this is really important to understand that when we look at andropause and andro? pot, what we’re looking at are low, not just low testosterone levels, but other declining hormone levels and increasing cortisol and insulin resistance. Now we need to fight increase in cortisol and insulin resistance.
Dr. Anna (00:17:04):
Brad, part of my journey in my own healing journey took me around the world, working with some of the most amazing leading scientists and minds of the world as well in that same, uh, contacts, the most amazing traditional healers from Indonesian medicine men, but I’ll never forget in the South of Brazil near Iguazu. I was there and I met a doctor Wilhem Vieira and Dr. Vieira is, uh, you know, studies, quantum physics and energetic MD studies, quantum physics and energetic medicine. So he had the opportunity. Uh, I had the opportunity to speak with him and, and, and you know, and interrogate him a bit. And so what he, you know, here, he said, I was talking about hormones and this, he goes, no hormones. He goes, look at me. I’m 78 years old. I mean, muscular, beautiful, sharp man. He goes, what’s important is that, are we, our bodies are our energetic bodies. You have an orgasm every day. And that keeps you highly healthy.
Dr. Anna (00:18:09):
Oxytocin is the most powerful hormone of your body, you know, Oh, it trumps testosterone, a thousand fold, right. Oxytocin. And that we create through loving relationships, loving, lasting, nurturing, nourishing relationships. It goes beyond sex, right? There’s a trust factor, a confidence factor that increases oxytocin. Oxytocin is an antiaging hormone. It, it actually, we see muscle cell regeneration with oxytocin and we know it is the most alkalinizing hormone in our body. Just have a good laugh and then go check your urine, pH which testing urine pH. And I’d say this probably every interview is like another vital sign and it just helps you not just see how well you’re nourishing your body, but how well you’re managing stress, which is more important to know now than ever. You know, I created these little pH Ketone test strips for pennies a day.
Dr. Anna (00:19:02):
You can check every time you use the bathroom and get alkaline,. But it looks oxytocin is the most how colonizing hormone in our body. And we get it from playing with a pet laughter you know, uh, you know, being in good community, good conversations with friends, but when stress goes up, oxytocin goes down, right? So when as we get older, more stress business related cortisol is going up depleting our testosterone, depleting, our progesterone neuroprotective hormone. And, and certainly we can medicate, um, uh, prematurely with, with testosterone. Now I’m not saying it’s definitely the older we get a little bit of testosterone goes a long way. Um, I’ve, I’ve lectured for an on sex on hormones and sexual health and, and testosterone, even pellet therapy for, for a deck over a decade now. So there, you know, again, the re always addressing, there’s always a reason we need to always have a reason to use it and have addressed the underlying reasons for low testosterone.
Dr. Anna (00:20:07):
Cause like Dr. Vieira at 78 years old was with fabulous muscles and fabulous, you know, uh, energy and vitality and brilliance. And, um, you know, it goes, be many stories around the world where they don’t have the elders with, who are living well and long without supplemental hormones. Now again, you know, they thought there’s a lifestyle factor there and there’s a reason we need it. I’ve used testosterone 53 with a 12 year old it’s it’s in my hormone turkey. A little bit goes a long way with that said,
Dr. Anna (00:20:44):
where do we, where do we go with that conversation? What was the question? Follow ups?
Brad (00:20:48):
We have some followups. Mmm Mmm, Mmm. I want to be clear on what this, uh, what this andropause expectation is and how to, how to navigate it passed. And then you said that oxytocin trumps testosterone by a thousand times and in a, in a practical sense, what do you, what do you mean by that? I know the importance of laughter, connection and all that. And it seems like a really interesting point to continue. I wanna, I wanna hit that a little harder here.
Dr. Anna (00:21:16):
Yeah. So, okay. So with andropause, we call this, you know, we’ve used this terminology in the literature, not in the, in the two recent, um, uh, past, but what we refer to is this declining androgen levels. So declining testosterone predominantly is what we’re looking at when this andropause this transition of timeframe, but also declining DHA. So what does that look like? There’s the natural course of our hormones declining, like for example, ovaries in women, testes and men produce testosterone, both, but yep. In this transition as our biologic clock winds down its reproductive potential, right? Testes, decreased androgen production, same with ovaries and women decrease estrogen, progesterone and testosterone production. So the adrenal glands have to take over. So these adrenal glands, if you put your hands as fist and you put them right in the back here at your kidneys, you can bang right there. You’re banging on your kidneys and your adrenal glands. These are your fight and flight responders. So if you ever have tender points here, anything you probably to stress, those are also energy meridians, um, Chinese energy Meridians. So you can just bang your back right there. Hold also indicate kidney disease,
Brad (00:22:34):
all the listeners to try that. Okay. I’m trying it. Okay. Okay. Um, wow. That’s interesting.
Dr. Anna (00:22:41):
So those are your adrenal glands. So actually one energy actually, while everyone’s listening, keep doing it because that’s a strong energy Meridian and that will reenergize, or you may already feel more awake, more alert, more clear.
Brad (00:22:53):
just by doing that, just being on your adrenals.
Dr. Anna (00:22:57):
Yeah. Your adrenals and your kidneys. Now, if you have pain, you might have a kidney infection or, you know, could also be very high stress. That’s the energy meridians for fear. Adrenals are, um, a representation of fear, kidneys and adrenals fear. So emotional energy of fear. So then you’re overactive. So you definitely can physically and emotionally experience that. How cool, right? This is just from learning, you know, against some traditional medicine, part of my international journeys and applying it to clinical my clinical practice. So what is, is really cool about that though, as we strengthen our adrenals, one thing we’ve done part of my creation is mighty Maka plus, right?
Dr. Anna (00:23:39):
So Mighty Maca Plus this green powder with over 30 superfoods, what we’ve seen, like how do we restore function? We’ve reduced stress, increased vitamin C and, and certainly B vitamins, but Maca is a potent adaptogen as well. In this combination is Querctin, Tumeric, Resveratrol, Cat’s Claw, herbs, all potent, uh, adaptogens and, you know, uh, ingredients that support our body’s natural inflammatory response. And we get down the stress and we alkalinize and detoxify. And so in this, we’ve seen clients, men specifically in two months, increase DHA, the hormonal precursor to testosterone by as much as 70 to 200% in two months. And, and we’ve seen testosterone levels increase. Yes, I could have prescribed testosterone, but what if we get the body to make its own natural testosterone and to balance it better? So it’s not just, again, never, it’s never just about a supplement, a powder, a program of potion. There’s always a combination. There’s a combination of lifestyle and everything else that we have to put in, um, put in our body, you know, I feel really much better now that I’ve pounded on my kidneys. Thank you.
Brad (00:24:51):
Yeah, let’s keep it. Let’s keep the energy going. All right. So, uh, you described how the adrenals are needing to take over, uh, when testosterone drops in the example of andropause. And, uh, it sounds like that’s an undesirable thing for males or females to, to rely on the stress response rather than a hormone balance. And the vitality that they get when, when estrogen is optimized or testosterone is optimized and oxytocin, and all these things are flowing
Dr. Anna (00:25:19):
ahum
Brad (00:25:21):
But I guess our modern trend here with our hyper-connectivity and our bad habits and nutrient deficient diets is we’re just kind of flooding the system with stress hormones and relying on that and the terrible ups and downs that occur with that?
Dr. Anna (00:25:37):
Absolutely, absolutely. And that, you know, again, when cortisol goes up, oxytocin goes down and so we are, we are more stressed, you know, and they’re even just thinking of ways we can increase oxytocin. I was thinking there, you know, other certainly we can supplement with oxytocin, but right. You hear me saying that is not first choice. Right. And I, and I, and I have prescribed oxytocin. I’ve used oxytocin. And, but first choice
Brad (00:26:02):
here, you’re, I’ve never heard of that. I know there’s Oxycontin, which people confuse with the oxytocin. So you’re talking about dispensing actual oxytocin hormone as a, as a protocol?
Dr. Anna (00:26:15):
Yes. Yeah. And again, that wouldn’t be my first choice, but as a obstetrician, um, I’m very comfortable giving oxytocin, hence Pitocin to women in labor, Pitocin is oxytocin. And so there’s a tremendous amount of safety with it, you know, low doses go a long way, creates that, bonding that, uh, that, you know, that attachment same with orgasm, a tremendous amount of oxytocin, especially for women experiences that bonding attachment phenomenon. And it’s a powerful, again, hormones are powerful neurochemicals. They are neurochemicals. They affect our mind, effect our thoughts. And so we feel that with oxytocin and in the case of, as I, we used it for sexual health, um, clients for patients to help with orgasm or sensation, or sometimes it would, you know, uh, loss of desire to help increase the sense of pleasure. That’s certainly one thing I use, you know, my Java cream now to help with the changes with age, but also in, in that area, it was like, you know, you get mixed results with that.
Dr. Anna (00:27:21):
Cause there’s often other underlying reasons why there are issues, especially with libido or sex drive. But as I had gone through my own trauma, my own PTSD, my own loss and grief and depression, and you’re, I write about that in my books, my story, which I won’t get into here. But as I, you know, recognize this, the effect of cortisol on oxytocin, that disconnect started using oxytocin to help me with my PTSD. And then I saw it everywhere. I saw it in my, I had a, a 47 year old male client who came in to see me on referral. He had had a, um, uh, complete detachment issue with his wife and child. And he said this to me, cause you start asking the questions that, you know, all of a sudden your eyes see it. Right. And he said to me, you know, Dr. Anna, I love my wife. I love my daughter. I just don’t feel love for them. And I’m like, okay, well what’s been going cause he was depressed. And that’s why he was sent in to see me, even though I’m a guy in said, it takes a strong man to come into a gynecologist to see, you know, okay, I’m triple boarded. But you know, beside that, um, it is. Um, and so I said, well, what’s happened. What happened? Maybe, you know, typically two years, two years, or when did these symptoms start? And typically within, you know, two years before the symptoms start, there was some term trauma. And he was in a, uh, a, um, or he was an oil rig and that exploded. And so he had blunt trauma. He had had, um, traumatic brain injury as well as PTSD. And so under the surface that cortisol continues to surge run its ugly head.
Dr. Anna (00:29:01):
I mean, PTSD is like a seizure disorder in my opinion, this is me saying this, Brad. So this is like, when you have one seizure, well you might not ever have a second seizure. We know this in neurology, but if you have to, we know you’re going to have a third. So imagine PTSD is like, you go down that pathway once and again and again and again and again, and all of a sudden you’ve got this, you know, well-formed neurologic pathway, that’s destructive essentially. And cortisol kind of, you know, uh, facilitates that in, in one way or another. So you get this constant cortisol and when cortisol goes up, oxytocin goes down. And then when cortisol up for too long, our brain, you know, we, we suppress cortisol production and then we’re in this really disconnected state where you don’t, your cortisol is low and oxytocin is low, and you don’t feel love, you don’t enjoy the activities you used to enjoy.
Dr. Anna (00:29:57):
You’re burnt out you, you know, and you express, like I know I, and I hear this, you know, again, once I understood it, I heard it. You know, my patient would say, I love my husband. I don’t feel love for him. Well, what’s going on while I’m having, you know, I’m really stressed at work. I’ve been working 16 hour days and this that, I see it a lot in physicians with burnout. I see it a lot. And, and so, okay, well temporarily let’s give you some oxytocin on the way. You know, I test do a quiz. I typically would do an injection, look at a response and then prescribe oxytocin along with these other active everything else that I write about in my books. And so it is, um, because nothing beats the habits that we create to empower our, our nervous system and our hormonal system, our neuroendocrine system.
Dr. Anna (00:30:44):
So I, you know, I prescribed, for example, this gentleman, Marcos, who was 47, I started prescribing him some trachea, trachea of oxytocin, a small dose. I think I started at 20, went to 40 a day. And it just, it just shifted because he, all of a sudden he could feel that again. And then he’s like, is any, you know, had the confidence to start doing other activities to increase oxytocin, you know, the loving, more playing, more laughing, more, you know, because trauma is trauma, you’re in a state sometimes of anhedonia and you just have no joy. And so, okay, what do I need to do to create joy? What’s the funny, who’s the funniest person. I know who’s the, what’s the best funniest movie. I know what, you know, having intimacy and connection and loving, um, intercourse with your wife, having sex that can make an indoor husband making a huge difference in your quality of life. And also to experience that really powerful hormone oxytocin. Then again, we have to stop that pattern by trauma that continues to drive cortisol. So that’s where heart math comes in emotional freedom technique, EMDR, and you know, many other, um, ways that we can really work on on changing that neural pathway. Cause it’s, it goes beyond, I just need to think myself better. That’s part of it, but it goes way beyond that
Brad (00:32:12):
Sounds like, yeah, it sounds like the pharmaceutical intervention is, uh, recommended when you’re in a, in a pit, uh, and, and can’t get out. And I liked that description of now. Now he had the spirit to go and engage in further oxytocin producing behaviors. I can imagine the same thing for a low testosterone male who’s too tired to go work out and lift weights and get a testosterone spike from that, or do whatever testosterone behaviors. Um, so, you know, once we’re, once we’re kind of stabilized, I guess the holistic approach would be to just see how things go and monitor what, what intervention you’re using and, um, you know, aspire to being like that Brazilian doctor, I want to know more of his secrets, the 78 year old guy, who’s having an orgasm every day and full of muscles and vitality and energy.
Dr. Anna (00:33:01):
I know, I know. Amazing. Right? Totally amazing. And, um, and, and, and many and many more like him, but that was eye opening to me. And it also, um, you know, it really, it really did, you know, in looking at functional medicine. And, and I talk about this all the time when I had the opportunity to help my father when he was 79 years old, when his physicians had given up on him. And I was able to come in with testosterone, with, you know, Keto early version of my Keto green plan. And it, within 30 days, he lost 30 pounds, went from 120 units of insulin a day to 20 units of insulin a day, went from having to be pushed around in a wheelchair. Cause it was exhausted to being out on the tennis court with the kids and he lived, Brad, you’ll love this. He lived a beautiful 12 more years and died at 91 fully cognizant, fully, you know, with it still challenging us for speed test. And [inaudible], I mean, and that’s what, that’s what we can have when our current medical system is like, and this is what his doctor told me, Anna, your dad’s 79. I mean, he’s had a good life. Yeah. You hear that a lot. And that’s okay.
Dr. Anna (00:34:12):
The other thing for both men and women that goes under, and again, with biogenic hormones, everyone, you know, Keto Green, right. It takes more than hormones to fix our hormones and again, a plan and a program to help with that, but also progesterone for both men and women. And that’s often under the bio identical natural progesterone for me, it’s my pure balance, PPR cream, which has progesterone and preganalone. These are neuroprotective hormones and they naturally decline as we get older. And also in times of stress, cortisol robs your progesterone, progesterone is neuroprotective. And we forget that, you know, I would use this in clients. It may, and we always use it. I use it in women, especially in the menopause with, or without a uterus. It’s very important. I’m gonna say that again because with our, without a uterus bioidentical progesterone is very important in the menopausal postmenopausal woman. It just is a little bit goes a long way. We use it cyclically or, you know, a few days off a month if we’re not cycling anymore. And it is, it is helpful for a good night’s sleep. And it is one of our mother hormones. And so really important one I used a meant to, with depression, with difficulty sleeping, it is the best, relax a little bit goes a long way for men, five to 10 milligrams and a topical for men, 20 milligrams and a topical for women.
Brad (00:35:34):
Yeah. I had a guest named Dr. Michael Platt. I’m sure you’ve heard of him. He’s a big promoter of the progesterone bioidentical progesterone. And it sounded like almost a blanket recommendation for anybody, uh, in the, in the upper age groups to, to use that men and women, although it’s generally been regarded as used by mostly females, is that, is that where we’re at?
Dr. Anna (00:35:57):
Yeah. You know, and what was really, cause I, I mentioned I trained at Emory university and we did in the neuro ICU at Emory, they were, they started studies over a decade or more two decades ago, looking at IVF. What they noticed is women on their, you know, uh pre-menstrual. So in their luteal phase did better post TBI, you know, and they didn’t understand that. So one observe, and again, the beauty that the clinical acumen of these physicians, they observance is so key, just like our observance with a Corona virus that it feels it’s like an altitude sickness kind of phenomenon that we’re seeing. Right. And it changes the way you treat things, treat people. And so what they noticed was when they noticed that they said, well, what is it about progesterone? Well, there’s progesterone a neuroprotective hormone. It is receptors all throughout our brains.
Dr. Anna (00:36:49):
So they started doing IB progesterone, bioidentical, progesterone. And when they did that, they had fabulous results. I spoke with a scientist myself. Now, the physicians, the leading the studies myself, and they said, you know, they’re randomizing. At that point, they were randomized clinical trials. And they said, you know, Anna, when if any of our family here was to come in with a TBI, the first thing we would do would give them IV progesterone. And for me, that is proof of the pudding. And speaking with one of the lead physicians on the study as well, he goes, not synthetic, not, you know, not progesterone with anything else attached to it, but bioidentical progesterone. And that makes a big difference. Cause then the pharmaceutical started creating a progesterone and I got, for example, a pedestrian cap rate that’s been used in women for preterm labor. It’s not pure, you know, and, and it’s, it doesn’t work the same way.
Dr. Anna (00:37:43):
And, um, and that was a shift in study results. Unfortunately, when that, um, that happened. But till this day, they, you know, that is, that is really important research looking at progesterone in the brain. And when we look at it, especially in women in perimenopause, and I write about this in Keto Green 16, you know, progesterone, precursor hormone, also when that starts to decline and our mid thirties, early forties, we start getting, not just, you know, gynecologic symptoms, we get neurologic symptoms, anxiety, insomnia, decreased libido, irritability, mood swings, all of those are neurologic symptoms. Well guess what the brain’s ability to produce glucose. So gluconeogenesis in the brain is an estrogen dependent process. So no wonder our brains are kind of starving unless we shift to Ketones. And that’s why your Keto for Life so important, Keto Green so important, especially in this perimenopause menopause.
Dr. Anna (00:38:43):
And that’s why fasting. We do so well with fasting. We just do so well when we shift to and we have to do Kita, right. But we do so well when we shift into Ketosis, cognitive, let me tell you, you know, I’m 53 with a 12 year old. When I was 48, I was spiraling down. This is discovering the Keto Green way helped me. I mean, I was having trouble remembering my kids’ names, let alone, let alone being able to run a business. And I was near broke. And I went from there discovering this Keto Green way to, you know, applying this into my life, the principles, fine, tuning it with research and science and case studies after case studies and, you know, writing two books, you know, launching three programs. And, um, and being here, talking with you about all this good, good stuff.
Brad (00:39:37):
So we’ve been talking hormones so much and your, your first book was the Hormone Fix, uh, getting into all this that we’ve conversed about. And then of course that diet component is so huge. And that’s why if you’re watching on YouTube, you can see the excitement on Anna’s face. When she’s talking about Keto green 16, and the discussions we had offline. And I like you pointing out that you have to do it the right way. Uh, you know, Ketos now become sort of a, a popular term and craze and a large percentage of it is, seems to be, um, you know, kind of ridiculous. Uh, ill-advised missing the point and so forth. So, uh, you made it through all the scrutiny to get as a guest on the interview because you know how to do this stuff right at the time to get into the book, tell me what the term Keto Green 16 really means, and then hit some of your hot points that especially how they tie in with the, um, the hormonal aspects, instead of just talking about how many grams of carbs to eat, we’re going to go a little deeper here with Dr. Anna.
Dr. Anna (00:40:40):
Oh yeah. You know, getting Keto Green, like this whole concept. And for me, it was really important to understand how the, you know, what the shift was for me, you know, when I was 48 and I was struggling, you know, spiraling down where I was experiencing everything, my patients experience brain fog, mood, swings, irritability, you know, memory loss. And that was really traumatic for me, you know? And, and also, um, I experienced what my patients were coming complaining. They’d come in and complain, Dr. Anna, I’m gaining five, 10, 20 pounds and I’m not doing anything different. So as a young cocky doctor, I think to myself, never say, but, Oh really? You’re not, how is that possible? Right. Like, surely you’re driving through an extra meal a day or something. And lo and behold, five, 10, 20 pounds overnight without doing anything different. And, Brad, at one point I had been over 240 pounds. I lost 80 pounds, kept them solid and easily for a decade. And without doing anything different, you know, God will make me humble. I gained 20 pounds. What seemed like overnight. And if anyone listening had lost a significant amount of weight and you start gaining it back like that, and you’re like, when’s it going to stop? I’ll be 300. You know? And so that’s what took me into Keto, but I felt irritable. Agitated. I didn’t have Keto flu. I called it Keto crazy. I was irritable.
Brad (00:41:58):
So wait, you, you, you weighed 240 pounds and you lost 80 and then you gained 20.
Dr. Anna (00:42:05):
Yeah.
Brad (00:42:05):
So you, you thought you were, um, uh, peaches and cream and sailing off into the sunset with this wonderful success story. And then things started slipping. And this is coinciding with your age around 48 that you’re talking about this story. Okay. So you gained that 20, and then you start to have more empathy for your patients and wonder what the heck was going on.
Dr. Anna (00:42:27):
Exactly, exactly. And, and so that’s where I really drive low carb, you know, higher fats, very followed Keto. I prescribed it for patients with neurologic disorders. And similarly with patients with candida or, or chronic yeast, et cetera, you know, we want to restrict the carbs, but I was hitting those high fats and those macros and I did not like how I felt. But first question was, why, why am I feeling this way? Why are my neuro-transmitters off what’s happening? My hormones were dialed in right. Bioidentical, hormone replacement, my field of specialty dialed in. So what else was going on here? And that’s why I say it takes more than hormones to fix her hormones. Because with that, I just started, I went to my functional medicine roots, do what I tell my patients to do check your urine. pH urine pH is alkaline. You’re likely detoxing better.
Dr. Anna (00:43:14):
And your body has a stronger, you know, stronger foundation. So let’s look at that. I was as acidic as the urine pH paper would read. Like I went to five, I think, but who knows? Cause that was as low as the paper would read. So I, um, I immediately started, Oh, acidity. Yeah. So when your urine pH should be like, ideally seven, 7.5, we know, and you know, 7.58, seven is neutral, but anything above seven we consider alkaline below seven is acidic. What scientific papers and research has shown is that when your, your pH is more alkaline, 7.5, above seven, um, it looks like we have decreased risk of diabetes, hypertension, heart disease. Again, those are, that’s really powerful cancer, osteoporosis, all of those things. So when we’re more acidic, all of those risks increase and inflammation increases. And so we have to think, okay, why, how are we nourishing our body?
Dr. Anna (00:44:13):
One thing is the food we eat. So I started, that was an aha moment for me though, when I was so acidic, I was like, no wonder, I’m irritable, no wonder, you know, I’m agitated, I’m feeling inflamed. My body’s not liking this. I’m not grounded. You know, my it’s, it’s an added stress and I’m missing something right. Missing something. So of course get my Nancy Drew hat on. I love being the Nancy Drew of medicine. So here I go. And I, you know, I started checking my urine pH and adding in the dark green leafies, the kale, the collards, the beet greens, all the dark green leafies, right? That I can do and eat. And I, and I’m getting more alkaline. I’m feeling better. The Keto crazies are going away. And then every time I note and checking, every time I use the bathroom, you know, test ,don’t guess type philosophy, checking urine, pH checking Ketones.
Dr. Anna (00:45:03):
And, um, the mornings I walked on the beach, Brad, I was more alkaline all day. The mornings I did my gratitude journaling. I was more alkaline all day. So I ask the question why these lifestyle factors are it’s it’s. So that’s why, you know, we say 93% of diets fail because it’s not just about what we eat, right? The food we eat is important, the combinations are important. I’m doing everything I can to chemically, you know, create simple menus that work to support our body’s hormonal balance. But what’s really fascinating is that when we are stressed, cortisol, decreases urine, pH makes us more acidic. And it’s just a function of what cortisol does across the, you know, across the renal tubules of the kidneys. But, you know, so when we’re stressed, we become more acidic. So when we do activities that decrease cortisol increase oxytocin, we become more alkaline hence associated with all the life giving properties of life, you know, all the health quality. So again, not just about what we eat, maybe who we’re eating with either builds us up, makes us laugh, gives us oxytocin or stresses us out, makes us acidic. And doesn’t matter how freaking perfect our diet and our macros and our micronutrients are
Brad (00:46:19):
Right. Not just who you’re eating with, but your perception of the whole program and whether you’re doing it for the right reasons, whether you’re still harboring, um, you know, anger, guilt, resentment, negative emotions, and applying those to your, your rigid dietary protocols. And it’s never going to be good enough and all that kind of thing. So opening up the opening up the picture a little bit from your food choices. So we have alkaline lifestyle behaviors. I’m making that up, or maybe you made it up, but we usually have only, uh, heard of this spoken in terms of this foods and acid forming food, this food foods and alkaline food, and some people I’m glad you’re shaking your head. Cause some people reject that entirely that, that the foods are even contributing much to that.
Dr. Anna (00:47:07):
I, I definitely the foods do contribute. That is an important part. There’s alkaline foods supporting the microbiomes. Pooting the gut half absolutely essential, but alkalinizing lifestyle behaviors. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Brad (00:47:18):
I mean, uh, you can think what you want, but if you look at the list of acid forming foods versus the list of alkaline forming foods, it’s kinda like, uh, you know, uh, vegetable oil, sugar, uh, you know, all this nasty stuff happens to be acid forming. And then you have the, a lot of good stuff too, to some exception. I think the meat and stuff is on the acid forming list too, but you’re trying to create that balance, I think is what we’re getting at. But I love bringing that, that lifestyle element in there too. So I guess you went on this healing journey, uh, and discovered you’re more alkaline when you walk on the beach and then take it from there.
Dr. Anna (00:47:58):
Yeah. And so, and that’s how Keto Green, that’s how the Keto Greenway became about it. Not only did I feel amazing and Claire cause apparently my brain was suffocating from glucose, not being able to utilize glucose. So I shifted Ketones and this alkaline environment, no more Keto crazy. I had this energized enlightenment, this clarity, that aha moment. And, um, and I, and not only that, but I lost 20 pounds like the 20 pounds back within weeks after, you know, struggling, starving during everything else that I tried to do. And so that, you know, that was life transforming. And then I took eight of my most difficult patients and ran them through my program, created it, fine, tuned it from there to thousands online. And then my first book, the hormone fix, and now Keto Green 16, which we’ve been doing clinical studies in, in group medical visits and looking at, you know, clients following the protocol over 16 days and what kind of results they’re getting and many clients are staying.
Dr. Anna (00:48:56):
And again, for another protocol, even during this Corona virus, we went virtually with our group medical visits and I’m there to support and answer questions, but they followed the protocol. The results were amazing. We had one guy, we had to throw out his results. So one guy Daniel, 57 years old on blood pressure medicine about to start Metformin by his attending physician has prescribing physician in 16. He joined the program with his wife. So he was the only man. And in that 16 days, he had this one episode of low blood sugar. Like he felt thought it was either sinuses. He was feeling weak. And so he went to see a physician who checked and it, you know, first had a rule out, you know, coronavirus. Nope, Nope. Not those symptoms. So checked his blood pressure and his blood pressure was a hundred over 70.
Dr. Anna (00:49:46):
He typically ran like 170 over 90 to a hundred and was on blood pressure med. So she had to wean him, you know, weaning him off. He’s on a fraction of his blood pressure medicine. He lost 30 pounds in 16 days and he feels great. Never had to start Metformin. And then the women in the study I’m looking, I want specifically studying the hardest, most metabolically conservative group of us, those in my age range. So 50 to 60, the average age in this group, this study, this, uh, group that went through it with us with 61.6 years old, 61.6 in 16 days, average weight loss, nine pounds, average symptom score improvement over 50%. Like I’m odd. I’m like, y’all doing better than I’m doing and what is going on here. Right. And it’s, and they also said, thank you for giving us something to focus on that was healthy and empowering and strengthening. And we weren’t and making us test our urine pH and Ketone. So we could see how stress of the news and the pandemic was affecting us and, and shift to this positive mind, body nourishing lifestyle. And so I loved that. I thought that was just, it is just perfect.
Brad (00:51:00):
Yeah. Those are big numbers. And he wondered
Dr. Anna (00:51:04):
huge, surprising, especially in this age group. I mean, we, you know, we will see, we see it. The studies are always in young athletic men, right?
Brad (00:51:12):
Yeah. I got a six pack in 16 days. Wow. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Anna (00:51:17):
You know what I say to that now? You don’t want to know now,
Brad (00:51:20):
Oh, you know how those you’ve seen those contest winners in the before and after, like in the bodybuilding magazines and the secret, uh, the backstage secret is what’s going on. There is it’s not before and after it’s before, after and before. So in other words, you take this incredibly ripped specimen with the six pack and the muscles bulging. And then you sit that person on the couch for six weeks and they eat food and don’t work out and drink a lot and bloat up to take their before picture. And then all they do is get back in shape and all of a sudden they’re, you know, a miracle.
Dr. Anna (00:51:54):
That’s terrible. I hate, I hate that. That’s so deceiving.
Brad (00:51:57):
Well, you know, you win a hundred thousand dollar prize. There’s going to be high stakes people coming into that, into that game. But, um, when you talk about those big numbers, clearly there’s something else going on, like a reduction in inflammation and water retention due to lowering their life stress levels and all kinds of metabolic things happening. Can you describe beyond losing body fat? Cause you can’t lose that much body fat in 16 days.
Dr. Anna (00:52:22):
That’s, that’s true. Right. It decreased like, well, you’re creating a cellular health. So there’s a natural diarrhesis that goes on with that. We look to see, we weren’t able to measure in person, body fat percentage because of the coronavirus in this group. But well, we know in the past we’re maintaining muscle and that’s really, that’s really an important distinction to make. But what we’re seeing is improved cellular health. What are commonly, what are women, men experiencing as they’re getting older, this high blood pressure, lower extremity edema, those are leaky membranes, right? So the combination of, of foods of, uh, you know, we supplement with the Keto Green shake and the Mighty Maca Plus we certainly encourage that. And then when they don’t have to that’s optional, but you know, it, you know, doing things through the food combinations that really empower cellular health and the intermittent fasting.
Dr. Anna (00:53:13):
So we’re creating insulin sensitivity, managing cortisol, which is causing there’s leaky membranes, right. They’re testing on a daily basis, multiple times during the day, they naturally will diaries and, and they will also naturally improve their gut health, their digestion, their, um, you know, uh, bowel function, all of that stuff’s improved. And so again, with the 50, the improvement of over 50% in symptom scores, that medical symptom toxicity score is something that many of us functional medicine physicians use. And we use it not just in, you know, looking at weight and everything else. It’s measuring your mood, it’s measuring your arthritic pain. It’s measuring your sign at, you know, like your, the questions regarding your sinuses, your, um, you know, a wide range of a wide range of issues. So it’s freely. So that’s, what’s so powerful to see this shift in, in 16 days. And I think also because we were doing it in community, that, that even though it was a virtual community, we were doing , it still counts and it’s powerful. That’s oxytocin and it, and that’s,
Brad (00:54:23):
and through the computer screen, Oh my gosh,
Dr. Anna (00:54:25):
like we’re having right now
Brad (00:54:29):
feeling the energy swirling around my, my closet recording studio here. Great stuff, Dr. Anna. I got say, um, I’ve done a lot of podcasts, but this one, I think I’ve taken more notes. I’m sorry to keep looking away from the screen, but there’s so much going on here. And I encourage the listener. This is like a double listen because we got to go back and carefully go through that. You threw some science in there, but so well-described and applied into real life parameters. So I think it was very informative. And then when we talk about this book, um, it sounds like we’re going to get a lot of great information, but we’re also going to pull the trigger for the 16 day journey. Right. And tell me what to expect and what kind of commitment we need to make. If we’re going to go through this, uh, virtually by ourselves or through the offerings you have on your website.
Dr. Anna (00:55:17):
Yeah. When you go through it. So Brad, I want to see you in my Keto Green community, we’ll be doing a great challenge there and it will be also a great now I’ve been just showing up live. I felt called to do this, to serve my community. And I’ve been doing daily lives. And I really feel like that’s building some health and resilience in my community. So we’re starting to see that, um, that, that positive shift. And, and so with Keto Green 16 and be doing it again, live in the community, answering questions, being part of this accountability and encouraging wise body of, of humans that are coming together with the same purpose in mind, like, well, the healthier we are, the healthier our family is the healthier our community is the healthier our world is, right. It goes beyond us, the exposome as it’s called.
Dr. Anna (00:56:04):
And so, so that’s powerful. So within 16 days, 16 key ingredient types, we work to do 16 hour intermittent fasting. And if, if there’s a novice, who’s like, I can’t go more than 12 hours. I promise you, we’re going to be able to get you there. There’s a beginner, intermediate, and day advance program. There’s also a whole chapter in there. Men’s health that, um, you know, I, I designed because so many men come along with, um, their significant other on the journey. And I love seeing that, um, that powerful, that powerful commitment together, it makes it all better. And then again, just coming on, um, bring a friend and let’s, let’s do this together 16 days, 16 hour intermittent fasting. And the number 16, you know, I didn’t know this, this is just kind of like some of that Wu stuff that, you know, I think it’s very interesting.
Dr. Anna (00:56:53):
Someone said to me, well, what does the number 16 mean? I’m like, well, first of all, I like sweet 16. I just chose number 16. There’s research to say that in 16 days we can get results. And you know, and, and there’s, uh, no one’s failed a 16 day program cause there’s not another 16 day program that I’m aware of anyway. So that’s good. That’s a good track record. Right. And so something different. We want to not do the same thing each time and then looked up the number 16. So apparently it’s associated with willpower and intuition and you know, and I think that’s, that’s pretty cool because I want people to discern for themselves what makes them feel good and what doesn’t, what, and that’s where my, you know, my plan distinguished itself. Cause I do have you tested and, and not just guess, right? I want you to check and see and discern what’s working for you. What’s not working for you. What makes you feel better? What doesn’t and, and we moved from there. So it’s fun. It’s 16 days we can do it.
Brad (00:57:48):
You can do it. What else we got to do? We’re hanging around killing time. So go check out. Dr. Anna. Join her on social media website. Where did we find you?
Dr. Anna (00:57:57):
Thank you, dr. anna.com. So like Dr. Anna.com My website. Definitely.
Brad (00:58:03):
You, you grabbed that for yourself.
Dr. Anna (00:58:06):
Thank you. Thank you. I did have to pay a little bit for it, but it was good. It was worth it. And it’s easy. Um, Quebec has a little bit more challenging, but my Facebook is at Dr. AnnaC and Instagram at Dr. Anna Cabeca. So, uh, and, and definitely sign, encourage people to join the Keto Green community and sign up to my newsletter. It’s um, it’s been, it’s been fun way to interact and really communicate with my audience. I’m more involved now than I have been in the last few years as, um, you know, I’ve really shifting to understand how important like you as a leader, me as an influencer, you know, and as a mom and take care of my daughters and my community and my teams that, um, you know, just showing up and being involved and letting people know that I really do care. I care about what happens to them and I care that they get resolved. And, um, I, you know, I’m authentically on the journey with you,
Brad (00:59:00):
well said. Great finish, Dr. Anna. Thank you so much for the show. Good luck with your Keto Green 16, the exciting book launch here in the early part of 2020. And, uh, we’ll, we’ll have to check back with you in the future and just get a little deeper. We went on to so many wonderful topics. That nice coverage though.
Dr. Anna (00:59:19):
Thank you. Thank you. This was fun, Brad Thanks for having me.
Brad (00:59:21):
Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback@getoveryourselfpodcastatgmail.com. And we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts, I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves cause they need to thanks for doing it.
