Get ready for an extremely informative and interesting show all about glucose! We’ll be talking about the wonderful new technology of continuous glucose monitoring with dietician Molly Downey from the health technology company, Nutrisense.
This episode breaks down the science and benefits behind Nutrisense, the fantastic technology that allows you to track your blood glucose levels over a sustained period of time. This is incredibly helpful as the data Nutrisense gives you shows you the effect of not just your dietary choices, but also how all aspects of your lifestyle affect your blood glucose levels. You’ll also learn why Molly says that if your cortisol is consistently activated, you’re going to have a lot of difficulty losing weight, as well as the importance of monitoring your postprandial glucose response.
I’ve also arranged for an awesome 25% discount on any NutriSense program for B.rad podcast listeners. Just use the code BRAD25 at checkout or visit this link. And don’t forget to check out my previous show with Nutrisense co-founder Kara Collier here!
TIMESTAMPS:
With a tiny monitor and phone app, you can track your blood glucose. [01:35]
There are many factors that affect our blood glucose levels. [07:58]
Sleep and glucose have a bi-directional relationship. [11:25]
It’s normal to see glucose rise while you’re sleeping; it is not necessarily a bad thing. [15:42]
And with melatonin, there is a decrease in the secretion of insulin and also a decrease in insulin sensitivity. [18:56]
Some people can tolerate eating a meal late at night and others cannot. [20:30]
Stress is another factor affecting the glucose level. [23:51]
What does an optimal glucose subject look like? Try to avoid the high spikes in the first place. [25:54]
The focus needs to be on the post-meal responses. People react differently to different carbohydrates. [32:09]
Molly developed many physical symptoms that doctors couldn’t define or treat. [34:27]
Many people have no problem maintaining the baseline no matter what they eat. It is important, still, to monitor occasionally. [39:20]
The optimal level is to be below 100, but there are other aspects to look at. [42:19]
Molly suggests a return to baseline in two or three hours, which seems like a long time. [46:16]
Protein and fat can often mitigate the glucose spike response. How does having an apple for a snack compare with having a soda? [49:00]
When using the app, we can watch for dangerous dips and compare responses from the foods we eat. [51:51]
What are some of the weird readings people have that are difficult to explain? [55:31]
How does heat, dehydration, and a workout show up on your chart? [58:22]
The dietary training certification allows for dieticians to continue their exploration with individuals and learn new data and not necessarily follow strict recommendations. [01:04:52]
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B.Rad Podcast
Brad (1m 36s): Hey listeners, here comes a, another extremely informative and interesting show about glucose and the wonderful new technology of the continuous glucose monitor. I have Molly Downey dietician from Nutrisense on the line. We’re going to get all deep into this important subject. I think it’s one of the great breakthroughs in technology and self quantification that I’ve seen in years. Most of the stuff I have no, no use for no interest in. I think we kind of overanalyze every little thing in life. And so you’ll see me working out without even a watch or worrying about too many of the, the biofeedback tools. Same with sleep. Brad (2m 16s): I can’t imagine tracking my sleep because I I’d started thinking about it instead of falling asleep. But with continuous glucose meter that you attached to your body, a tiny little sensor that goes on your arm, and then the smartphone app, you can track your blood glucose over a sustained period of time. Each trip through the center takes two weeks. And so you sign up for two months or three months or whatever you want, and you have all this data to see how not only your dietary choices, but all aspects of your lifestyle affect your blood glucose, that critical health metric, where we want to see a good baseline average, as well as, and Molly talks about this in detail, even more important than your fasting blood glucose reading, the familiar number that we get from the doctor, even more important is your ability, your postprandial glucose response, your ability to return your glucose to baseline level soon after eating a meal of any kind. Brad (3m 14s): And so all these things are being tracked. She’s going to talk about them in detail. She’s going to talk about her own personal health journey, where she was fit. She was athletic. She thought she was super healthy. She was into that plant-based diet. So she was consuming a lot of carbohydrates. And then she got into the metering and realized that she was heading down the path to pre-diabetes other associated health problems. And her journey to healing began with this idea of monitoring the glucose response to meals and throughout the day, and it turned into a career for her. So I think you’re going to get a lot of interesting information. This show pairs well with my previous show with K ara Collier, the co-founder of Nutrsense, and that was boy, a couple of years ago. Brad (3m 58s): Now just when the technology was just emerging. Now it’s quite prevalent. They have thousands of members who are, you know, supplying more and more data. So we can really learn the healthiest way to navigate our dietary choices. And perhaps most particularly the individuality that influences our dietary choices and helps us frame all the information we’re getting about whether we should be keto or paleo or carnivore or plant paste. Now we can put it to the data and see how things work for you. So you can customize your optimal dietary strategy rather than just going with the, going with the flow. Brad (4m 38s): Good stuff from Molly Downey at neutral sense, Molly Downey, I have you on the line and the screen. If you’re watching on YouTube, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. You are the one of the powerhouses behind Nutrisense. It is so awesome to engage with you and the others with this incredible one-on-one support. I have to say there’s nothing like it. And I think we should start by discussing the operation, how it’s grown in a, in a short time. And then we’ll talk about the intricacies of monitoring your blood glucose and what it means for health and how to, how to improve certain markers. Brad (5m 17s): So first, yeah, I want to ask you, what’s it like your career? What do you, what do you do with people? And that’ll be a great education. Molly (5m 26s): Yeah. I’m so happy to have this discussion with you as well. We, I work for Nutriense. So we are a health technology company and we leverage continuous glucose monitors, or we often refer to it as the CGM. And we use this device to offer more insight into how a person might respond, you know, metabolically to different foods, to different stressors, exercise, sleep, all of these different variables play into, you know, how your body responds. So we started or Kara was the, is the director of nutrition. And she started Nutrisense, you know, a few years back, but we’ve grown, grown no progressively since then, even since I’ve been with Nutrisense, we’ve, you know, we were at probably five dieticians at that point. Molly (6m 17s): And now we’re, you know, in the late twenties. So, you know, we’re, I think we’re somewhere around 27 dieticians, but we formed, you know, an excellent team. They’re all, you know, super smart and determined and it’s just super exciting. You know, all of this data is novel and we’re just beginning to, you know, get a grasp on our understanding of all of this. So it’s, it’s super fascinating. It’s so exciting to be a part of the Nutrisense team and right. We’re we’re our goal is to, to spread health awareness, provide more insight into a person’s body, right? Molly (6m 58s): There’s so much information out there, you know, online, or you can find research to back up essentially, any sort of diet, right? Whether that is, you know, keto or carnivore, plant-based, there’s, you know, all this back and forth between all of that. So with Nutrisense , it’s, it’s humbling in the fact that we get more, so a sense of that individuality, right? So not everyone’s going to have the same response to stress or, you know, poor sleep or specific foods. So what we’re doing is allowing the person to become more knowledgeable and educated. So then they can make those informed decisions later on down the road. Molly (7m 40s): So it’s super exciting. The technology of continuous. Glucose monitoring is excellent. And obviously we’re still in those, you know, those infancy stages, but hopefully it’ll only progress from here, but yes, it’s, it’s been amazing and super exciting to see. Brad (7m 58s): So previous to the consumer launch of, of, of companies like yours, this technology was in use with diabetics through medical prescription. They had to monitor their glucose. They can go hit the, the blood meter a bunch of times a day or put this patch on the arm. So now it’s super convenient. You use a smartphone, you, you slap it up to your arm where the sensor is, but it’s only recently become available to, to sort of an enthusiast who is not in disease protocol. And that’s what they, that’s what the cool part is. And that’s how you explode from a few dieticians to 27, is people on the cutting edge of health, or I suppose in that pre-diabetic window, which just encompassed 130 million Americans, right? Brad (8m 44s): So it’s like, Hey dude, you better start paying attention to this stuff and, and slap this thing on your arm. And so I’m excited about it because of the potential for behavior modifications. All of a sudden, instead of one, visit a year to the doctor, seeing an adverse value and then going about your busy life. Now you can track all kinds of things. And I want to tee up this ramp with a question because you made a great point where you mentioned exercise, sleep, stress, all these other things. And I think we kind of, even in the really high, knowledgeable health enthusiast, we kind of focus on our food choices perhaps to excess. Brad (9m 24s): In other words, there’s so many other factors that affect our blood glucose and our health and our, our metabolic markers. So maybe you could talk about how some of these things, besides the pineapple hot fudge sundae that you just ate, what, how other things affect those glucose levels. And also what we’re looking for, if you want to, you can, you can be the next person to ramp. You can, that was a four-part long question Molly (9m 52s): For sure. And you know, just what you said with the whole idea of, you know, focusing more so on the non-diabetic population. Most people think of glucose and it’s associated with the diabetic population, right? Monitoring glucose levels is, is imperative, but we’re putting no more so of a preventative lens on it, where it can provide value to someone who, you know, isn’t in that disease state. And you’re able to recognize more of these, you know, the red flags aren’t there, but maybe there are yellow flags that are easier to fix earlier on, or you can make, you know, minor sort of, sort of adjustments to, but of course food is a huge implication and it promotes, you know, glucose responses. Molly (10m 39s): But with what you said, there are other variables as well. And you know, if we’re looking at, you know, there’s, there’s different pillars of health and, you know, we, we focus on sleep. We focus on stress. We focus on exercise in addition to, you know, what we’re actually eating because all of these different variables play into our overall health. And we shouldn’t underestimate one and then like overemphasize and others. So if someone comes in and, you know, say they’re trying to lose weight or something and their, their diets great, their exercise is great, but what if their sleep is off? And what if they’re completely stressed out? And, you know, if your cortisol, which is your stress hormone is, you know, consistently activated, you’re going to have a lot of difficulty losing weight. Molly (11m 26s): So th the, the amazing thing about the continuous glucose monitor is that we’re not just focusing on nutrition. We have all these other variables at play. So if we’re looking at sleep, for example, it’s definitely a fascinating thing that we can discover through continuous glucose monitoring. It’s one of the trends that we see all the time. So with sleep and glucose, there is a bi-directional relationship. What I mean by this is, you know, say that you have a poor sleep. It’s very common to see elevated glucose levels overnight. So what happens is our body is recognizing this, this poor sleep as a stressor on the body. Molly (12m 12s): And what happens when the body is stressed out is there is this endogenous production of glucose. So we see that blood sugar increase, and there’s also a decrease in insulin sensitivity. So if someone, you know, say I’m working with one of our members and they, most of the time, their glucose levels overnight are somewhere in the nineties range. And then I checked their data, you know, one morning and their levels are more so, you know, say it hit like one 10, but there’s no other variables. You know, if we take out the confounding factors of, was there a meal the night before, or are you stressed? If we can zero in on, you know, sleep, you know, your glucose levels can increase significantly because of that. Molly (12m 56s): And it’s not only the overnight values that are impacted. So as we go into the next day, right, that stress is still going on and our bodies are fatigued and we’ll see that, you know, blood sugar regulation is not controlled as well. So we, you know, maybe you had a banana one day and, you know, in the morning after having a fantastic night’s sleep and you had a great response to it, like you were able to tolerate it. But, you know, after that four nights sleep, you might have that same exact banana at the same time, and you might have a poor response to it. So we see this trend all the time, that foods that are otherwise tolerated well, if you, if, if you consume them after a poor night’s sleep, you know, you know, it drags on to the next day. Molly (13m 47s): So it’s not just affecting that, you know, in that period of time, it’s, it’s, it’s taking you into your next day as well. And of course, like there’s other variables like, like mood and appetite, right? So with poor sleep, you can have, you know, an increase in hunger, hormones or ghrelin and, you know, decrease satiety . So this can, this can make it, so you can, you start eating even more. So sleep is not something that, you know, should be undermined and always, you know, I always pay attention to it because there are so many implications that come along with it. And then, you know, as I was saying, you know, sleep and glucose is bi-directional right. Molly (14m 30s): So what I just explained, if you have poor sleep, you can have that, that increase in glucose, but also say that you have high glucose levels from a different variable. So what if you eat something later on in the evening, so say you eat like a cheeseburger and fries, and then you go to sleep 20 minutes and your glucose is rollercoastering all night and, you know, high levels, then, you know, I’ll usually ask someone too. It’s like, how was your sleep at night? And most of the time, it’s like, yeah, I was tossing and turning all night. I had crappy sleep. I didn’t feel well. Molly (15m 11s): You know? So in that aspect, you know, the high glucose from a different variable, such as food can impact your sleep as well. So it, you know, that foods acting as kind of like a stimulant to the nervous system, so it can make you more alert so it can make it. So it’s more difficult to actually fall asleep and then stay asleep as well. So those are, you know, that’s that bi-directional focus that we’re looking at with the glucose data with sleep, but it’s, it’s definitely fascinating to see, Brad (15m 42s): Right? Bi-directional bad news on, on both sides. And then I also assumed by directional, if you have good glucose regulation, good dietary choices, you put your head on the pillow, your glucose has been stable for several hours, and it will continue to be, as you facilitate a good night’s sleep with your healthy lifestyle. So there’s a couple of questions that come up. One of them is that the, the elevated blood glucose overnight, elevated from the person’s norm implies that they’re stressed. Cortisol is kicking in prompting this process of gluco-neogenesis making more blood sugar. But I know we don’t make more blood glucose than we need at any one time to function. Brad (16m 23s): So it’s going to be elevated to the point that whatever our body’s asking for, even as we can lay there and sleep and don’t need a lot of energy. So I’m curious what’s happening there. I would assume that we’re, down-regulating fat burning, which would be the ideal while we’re sleeping, because we don’t need a lot of explosive energy to lift ourselves over the bar or, you know, engage in high stress activity. So we’re, we’re laying down to a crappy night’s sleep because we’re stressed, we’re tossing and turning, we’re making more glucose than I would, I would guess is optimal at the expense of fat burning. Is that a, is that a, a fair assessment? Molly (17m 4s): Yeah, I think like what you’re, what you’re trying to get at is, well, first of all, it’s, it’s normal to see a glucose rise while you’re sleeping. So this is not directly like a bad thing. It’s a very normal trend to see. So say you’re in the eighties all day, and then your glucose levels, as you fall asleep, go into, you know, maybe the 95 range. That’s not bad. That’s a normal physiological process. And I can kind of go in to more reasons there, but it would what we’re looking for in overnight data. And we don’t have as much evidence or research here because most of what we’re looking at historically was our fasting levels. Molly (17m 49s): You know, if we’re just doing lab data or fingerprick data, someone wasn’t waking up in the middle of the night, Brad (17m 56s): Unless they’re an Olympic athlete, then they have the world anti-doping agency random unannounced testing at any time, 24/7 for normal people. No, there’s no door, no doorbell for the glucose test. Molly (18m 9s): So we’re missing out on this huge period of time. So that’s one of the main things that someone will come in and start testing their blood sugar, and they see that increase and it may not be bad, but they’re just, you know, there’s questioning about that. And there’s a few reasons as to why this is happening. And I like to think of it from, you know, you know, a circadian rhythm mindset, right? So if we’re looking at what’s going on throughout our day. Right. If, you know, if we take melatonin, for example, melatonin is the darkness hormone. And if levels are more steady and lower, you know, naturally with melatonin during the day, it’s later on at night, that when the darkness starts to come in, that we see this increase in melatonin. Molly (18m 57s): And with melatonin, there is a decrease in the secretion of insulin and also a decrease in insulin sensitivity. So with, and we actually see it with melatonin supplementation. So like the supplement in, in difference from like the actual natural hormone that’s being produced endogenously. But I do see sometimes if someone’s supplementing with melatonin, with like higher amounts of it, that they have higher overnight values. And it’s because of that mechanism where, you know, the, the pancreas is not producing as much insulin, if there is any like food in the system or anything, or it there’s that decrease in insulin sensitivity at the time and glucose just naturally is arising. Molly (19m 48s): So that is something that I do see. And it, it doesn’t mean that taking melatonin at night is a bad thing, right? You want to, you want to look at the big picture and if it’s improving your sleep, then I would say that that’s a good thing. So it was just like an interesting insight that I do see sometimes with melatonin supplementation, but back to what I was saying with, you know, circadian rhythms and biology. Like if you think about that process and what’s going on later on at night with, you know, melatonin and no, we’re not, you know, darkness, no, from an evolutionary perspective, that’s a time of, you know, you know, sleep and cellular restoration. Molly (20m 31s): And, you know, we’re not supposed to be out, you know, doing all of these things. And that’s not a time that we were supposed to be eating. And we see this in the data all the time that we have a most people have a significant, significant decrease in, you know, the way that they can tolerate food later on in the evening. And you know, it, it’s so interesting to see it in the glucose data, you know, and, and some people can eat a meal later on in the evening and be able to tolerate it well. Other people, they do not do well with it at all. So I would say for the most part, carbohydrates in general, people have more difficulty processing and that’s due to that decrease in insulin sensitivity at that time. Molly (21m 19s): So we’re less able to tolerate it. So we’ll see, you know, maybe you eat, we can use that banana example again, but if you eat the banana later on in the evening, you might have, you know, an exaggerated response from that. Whereas if you eat it earlier on in the day, you may not respond to it as you know, at all. And that’s just because it’s that time period and, you know, timing of when we’re actually eating food, you know, plays a significant role. But yeah, I think I, I don’t know what tangent I went off on, but to answer your question, yes, it’s normal to see that inherent rise in glucose overnight. Molly (21m 59s): The, what we’re looking at is, you know, different factors like what’s actually causing it and like, can we work through some modifications to lower those levels? So, you know, maybe one thing would be working on your evening meal. Right? So, so you’re like what I was saying, if you’re eating that cheeseburger and fries and falling asleep right away, one of the modifications that I would suggest is, okay, let’s try to eat our last meal before 6:00 PM or something. Right. That’s kind of just the baseline number that, you know, timing that I’ll suggest it doesn’t work for everyone. Sometimes we have to push it back even further. But if you eat your meal earlier, you know, in, before you go to bed at least like three hours before bed and ensuring that, you know, it’s low carb, right? Molly (22m 49s): So say they eat that low carb meal at 6:00 PM and their glucose levels were far more steady overnight. Then that would be, you know, something that could be helpful for them. And, you know, if they also find that their sleep is improved in that aspect, then I would say that that is, you know, an intervention that would be helpful for that person. So there’s kind of different ways that we can go about it. Brad (23m 10s): So you’re saying it’s normal to see the individual’s average glucose rise overnight, let’s say higher than some of the averages during the day and the app users. If you’re not, if you haven’t signed up yet, you’re going to sign up after the show. But if you’re familiar with it, you have all this data, it seems to keep getting better with more functionality and more acute things to track, but one of them it’ll have the hourly average. So 2:00 AM every single day over the previous month, you’d know what your average is. And then, you know what it is at 2:00 PM, 3:00 PM, 4:00 PM. So at a glance, you can pick all these insights and see how they apply it to you directly. But I I’m, I’m curious to know more about that. Brad (23m 52s): `So back to that example of the stressed person who, you know, goes to bed in a, in a disordered state and is tossing and turning all night, and then you’re seeing glucose rise above their typical average, is that the stress response kicking in, in an adverse manner. And then secondly, why is it normal or why is it okay to see glucose higher, overnight than, than a daily average or an afternoon average? Molly (24m 21s): Right? So with what you were saying too, like, you can look at the hourly, but we actually now have a feature in the app. So in the analytics portion, we look at sleep average. So that’s like a new thing too. So I implement that a lot. But generally speaking, we like to keep it below 105 milligrams per deciliter, for most people with stress. Yes. You know, that could make it so your glucose levels are elevated. And when you say, you know, why is it not necessarily a bad thing just in it’s more so, because it’s, it’s an inherent, you know, physiological process that our bodies are. Molly (25m 9s): It’s not always a significant increase in blood sugar, but you know, a slow glucose rise is something I see in mostly everyone. So it’s it’s so that rise I’m okay with it’s when we start to see the rise, you know, that are consistently below that, but above that 1 0 5 range or, you know, we’re mainly just focusing on trends and kind of what’s, what’s causing it and see if, you know, you know, if it is stress, can, you know, meditation beforehand, you know, before bed, can that be helpful? You know, if you’re managing your stress during the day, you know, maybe you need more exercise or so many different things. Molly (25m 50s): So it’s kind of just working on different modifications there. Brad (25m 55s): A couple of times you’ve mentioned we see the, the member doesn’t do well with the banana or back to the banana example. What does that actually, how does that play out when you say you tolerate the banana really well in the morning, and then in the evening, the same banana after busy, stressful day, whatever we can looking at a, a spike that’s two prolong that doesn’t come back down? Maybe you can talk about variability now. And, and what, what actually are the, the goals of getting this thing on our arm and getting the 10 out of 10 scores. If you’re not familiar with that, listeners, it does rate in different categories, how well you’re doing on this project. And, oh my gosh, my friend Ray, who’s a longtime user up in Lake Tahoe. Brad (26m 38s): He gets really frustrated. Like if he forgot to zap it enough time, and then there’s a gap. And then he goes from 10 out of 10 to fours or threes because, you know, it’s just the, that he didn’t measure the data as soon enough. And he blows his whole 10 out of 10 score. So lots of incentive there to look good, but what is, what is a, an optimal glucose subject look like? Molly (27m 2s): Good question. Yeah. So one of the major trends that we’re looking at in glucose data is your postprandial or post-meal responses. So this is how you’re responding to a particular food, right? So with the banana, it’s not abnormal to have a glucose spike from banana, right? Since, you know, it contains carbohydrate and glucose is a constituent of that, which causes and promotes that glucose rise. So what we’re looking at is we’re, we want to keep these glucose responses within a particular threshold, right? Molly (27m 42s): So when we do have a glucose spike, we want to keep the peak below on milligrams per deciliter, because you know what we understand currently with research and some people have different thresholds, but we just keep it, you know, just based off of what the research that we have now, we keep it at 1 44, but generally, you know, healthy individual, if the person wants to lower it, then they can, but we do it at this. You, we have this peak at 140, because if our glucose levels are consistently going beyond this point, we, you know, we’re more susceptible to, you know, oxidation and, you know, stress and inflammation that, you know, might be occurring. Molly (28m 33s): So it’s important that, you know, when we’re in these high ranges that we come back down sooner rather than later. So first off we want to avoid these high spikes in the first place. So we don’t want to be going beyond threshold on a consistent basis. Secondly, we want to, if we do have these higher spikes, we want to come down in, you know, a decent amount of time in what we deem as decent would be two to three hours. So if you do have a spike coming back down in that two hour period, that would indicate to me that you have good insulin sensitivity, right? You were able to tolerate that carbohydrate well, and your body was able to adapt, bring your levels back down. Molly (29m 20s): If we’re looking at someone who is more insulin resistant. So, you know, I see this all the time with my, my diabetic members, if they have a glucose response that goes beyond threshold, you know, it’s, it’s gonna take longer for their response to come back down to pre-meal values. So the reason being is because there are less influenced sensitive, so they have more, so this insulin resistance, so their body is just having more difficulty processing that well, and, you know, getting it back to premium values, you know, in more regular alignment with what blood glucose levels say they want. Molly (30m 4s): So it’s important, you know, and, and not only someone, you know, if someone is consistently having these high blood sugar spikes beyond threshold, and they’re lasting, you know, five, six hours, you know, this would indicate to me, okay, your body’s having more difficulty, you know, processing this meal. And, you know, again, what I was saying with these yellow flags, I feel like I’m the perfect example of it. I do not have. And the reason I became so interested in this in the first place is because I have horrible postprandial responses. I don’t respond well to carbohydrates and it was my, and boggling to me because I always thought of myself as, you know, a healthy person, I grew up playing sports. Molly (30m 47s): I was an athlete, right. I ate, well. I was a dietician, but I was not having good, you know, carbohydrate responses. And to me, I don’t know, I think at this point, you know, I don’t have severe insulin resistance, but this is a huge red flag to me, that something is wrong, right? And if I were to, I know now from measuring my glucose, yeah. I, you know, have to be mindful of how I incorporate carbohydrates into my diet. So it’s not just, you know, processed foods like, you know, that will promote these responses. I respond poorly to even like quinoa or sweet potato and some fruit. Molly (31m 29s): So I just have to work with manipulations on how to process these things. But if I weren’t to not pay attention to these, then you know, this would be likely progress into a more severe disease state or insulin resistance down the road. So it’s just like, I’m lucky enough that I already am able to recognize this and I can work on modifications and you know, I’m not going to be perfect. We can’t be perfect, but you know, at least I have awareness and now I can make informed decisions about, you know, my health and how I can be proactive and, you know, making it, so these issues don’t come up down the road. Molly (32m 10s): So yeah, the, the postprandial or the post-meal responses is what I focus on most. And they’re the easiest and fastest, you know, trends to repair. Right? If we’re looking at like fasting or baseline values, they’re more difficult to improve. They take a lot more time, especially if there’s like a hormonal issue or insulin resistance at play, like that can take a long time to kind of budge, but the postprandial responses, like you can just make minor adjustments to, you know, you can either pair the carbohydrate with a protein, or you can, you know, lower the, the carbohydrate amount in the meal, or, you know, different people respond differently to different types of carbohydrates. Molly (32m 59s): So there’s way to ways to kind of work around it. But again, we want to avoid those high spikes, hitting those high levels that are staying up there for a long period of time, because that’s, what’s going to induce that those negative consequences like inflammation and oxidative stress. So that’s, you know, kind of the reasoning as to why we’re looking at the, the, the, the variability there. Brad (33m 24s): So in your case, did you have a noticeable adverse symptoms that you’re going through life with as a healthy fit athletic person of optimal body composition and very high level of awareness to eating healthy foods and so forth? And would you attribute your sensitivity to genetics, or was there something like, and I might be asking this question on behalf of millions of active exercising folks who consume a lot of carbohydrates, burn a lot of carbohydrates look athletic, healthy, and fit on the outside, but her baking up pre-diabetic Timothy Noakes, the, the famous exercise physiologist from South Africa being the most prominent example of someone who was, you know, running ultra marathons, you know, working in the, at the highest level of his, of his field. Brad (34m 15s): And one of the world’s foremost experts on athletic training and nutrition and diet. And he basically had to throw everything in the garbage can and change his life because he himself was a, you know, on a disease path rather than a healthy path. Molly (34m 28s): Yeah, for sure. I, well, a few years ago, like when I started to develop my own personal health issues, so it was more so, like I was experiencing like extreme fatigue, brain fog, and I had a lot of skin issues. So I, you know, I was going to all of these different doctors trying to figure out what was going on, but of course they are more so providing them that bandaid approach. And, you know, th they were providing me with the answers that I was looking for, the type of person I need to understand why something is happening. Brad (35m 2s): Oh, no. Here comes Molly again for her appointment. Okay. Get ready here. Just take these pills and get outta here. No, no, no, no. I got another question. I got another one. Yeah. Molly (35m 12s): So I was just increasingly frustrated. So I, I, like, I thought back to the reason I became interested in this in the first place was I, my professor had brought in a glucose meter one day during my internship, and she asked for volunteers to test their blood sugar and yeah, I’ll do it. It was, it was a fasting blood sugar. And I had no idea at the time, but I was one of the only people in the class, along with the other guy that had not eaten anything. So technically we were in a fasted state. So yeah. And we were looking for fasting values. Molly (35m 54s): So this is like being eight hours without food, where our levels are at baseline. We want to be in that 70 to 90 range. And my levels were at 108 milligrams per deciliter for, you know, when I did my finger prick. And of course my professor voiced her concerns to me. She’s like, Molly you need to go to a doctor and check on this, but I didn’t at the time, but it always was ruminating in the back of my head. And as I started to feel, you know, I didn’t feel well, like, you know, years down the road with my brain fog, my skin issues. And again, nothing was making sense. I kind of had that, you know, light bulb moment, oh, maybe I should get a glucose meter and start testing my blood sugar, which I did. Molly (36m 37s): And, you know, I started seeing all the signs of high fasting levels, high postprandial responses. So for me, it just opened up this awareness and at least provided some sort of gratification that like, I at least found something, right. I was going to these doctors and they weren’t able to like give me any sort of answers. So me knowing that something was not right. And I could explicitly see that through glucose testing opened up my world to a lot of different things. And I further discovered that I had a polycystic ovarian syndrome. So it’s, PCOS basically just a hormonal imbalance, but it’s very common for females with PCOS to have poor blood sugar regulation in about 70% of the PCOS population are insulin resistance. Molly (37m 29s): So this kind of opened up my eyes to all of these things. You, you know, we’re referring to the South African, you know, doctor or whatever. He, he was like an athlete and everything. And I, I grew up playing sports too, but I was eating more so like plant-based because that’s kind of what was drilled into our head with, you know, being in school and our internship. But I quick fleet altered my perspective on that. And I think my own health experience, you know, promoted that change, but I started incorporating, you know, more meat and, you know, more animal-based products into my diet and I started feeling significantly better. Molly (38m 15s): So it was, I was eating high carb diet, which is a plant-based diet. Well, not wholly, but like mostly and now, you know, in hindsight that makes complete sense why, you know, my blood sugar was out of control. And, you know, I know now if I eat carbohydrate, you know, and I was eating in morning, afternoon, and at night, my, my blood sugars probably consistently just like out of control. So it was very eyeopening for me personally. And I think, you know, it’s a perfect example of, you know, you could be this fit, you know, athlete or anything, and, you know, you’re, you can not maybe be so healthy on the inside. Molly (39m 0s): So again, it’s the, we have a ton of athletes that come to Nutrisense too, and not everyone has that great, you know, metabolic control that they would suspect that they have. So I think, you know, that’s a truly fascinating aspect of glucose monitoring for sure. Brad (39m 20s): Now, do you see a ton of individual variation where the next person through the door can be slamming carbs all day long, hitting the gym and turning in their numbers. And they have a beautiful, you know, stability and quick return to baseline after meals. Molly (39m 39s): For sure. There’s, you know, there’s plenty of people that, you know, they can eat carbs at night. They can, you know, eat more processed foods and have a normal response to it. So they just are metabolically, you know, more flexible and more tolerant of these types of foods. But yeah, there’s definitely then the people that come on like meat and just their blood sugar is out of whack. So, you know, that’s why I suggest at least trying, you know, monitoring your blood glucose at at some point, just to see, right, just to, you know, if you are in a good place, that’s awesome. You know, maybe check again in a year from now and, you know, see how your body changes because your glucose can be manipulated through so many different things. Molly (40m 29s): So it’s just an important variable or metric to monitor, but yeah, it’s truly dependent on the individual for sure. Brad (40m 40s): And again, probably most of us listening have had annual physical or had our blood drawn once in a while. And if you think about the sum total of all the blood glucose readings of your whole life, you know, if you go to the doctor once a year for a physical, and here’s 27 years of, of blood readings, you’re going to get that amount in a single day with the sensor And so the data is so much more relevant than a snapshot from one visit to the physician once in awhile, especially as it relates to these nuances, like sleep and everything. So you’re saying you’re desire, you want to see a fasting blood glucose in the range of 70 to 90. And that seems quite low for me. Brad (41m 21s): Are you saying this is a goal that all of us should aspire to that’s that’s going to be a high score and anything over that is something to look at, or is there some variation there to where this person is supremely healthy, even though they’re at 100 in a fasted state? Molly (41m 39s): Yeah. There’s definitely nuances to fasting levels. And of course, like what I was saying, I, I put more emphasis on glycemic variability and postprandial responses because it is normal to see variation and seeing levels, you know, on a daily basis. And especially if you’re just going to your doctor and getting that single finger prick, like what if you had a super high carb meal right before bed and you slept horribly and you go at your finger prick and it’s at like one 10. That could just be that, that day. Right. That’s just one instant in time. Molly (42m 19s): Whereas with the, with the, the continuous glucose monitor, you can see maybe your glucose doesn’t always like that. And it’s more so just a factor of one sort of manipulation that you can make there with your evening meal. So there are nuances there and yes, like ideally, you know, staying, if you want to reach optimal health, like staying in that 70 to 90 range is, is a good bet, but it doesn’t mean that if your levels are, you know, I mean, mine are, you know, it doesn’t mean that I am in super poor health, right. There’s, there’s other factors that can be playing in there and conventionally, they just want levels, you know, to be at least below a hundred. Molly (43m 8s): So I guess there’s like optimal versus like what is probably okay. And then, you know, what gets into more where negative implications can come about? So I don’t want to like, put that pressure on someone to think like, oh, if my levels are not in the 70 to 90 range, I am sick or, you know, something bad is going to happen. It’s just, there’s so many other working parts to our health. And, you know, I never want to focus solely on one thing. And if, you know, if that’s something that’s difficult that, you know, to fix, then, you know, I will focus more so on something that we can, you know, what is it in our control and what can we fix? So Brad (43m 48s): Right. If there’s, if there’s no reported, you know, adverse consequences of someone, you know, cooking up a a hundred every morning. And I’m reminding myself of my experience when I was working on the keto reset diet and going deep, deep into the ketogenic diet and monitoring my carbohydrates and eating less than 50 grams a day and fasting for long periods of time. And I would routinely have morning blood glucose, fasted blood glucose values that were over a hundred one ten, one twenty one, one seventeen, ninety three, eighty seven, one oh nine. And I was like, what’s going on here? I haven’t put any food. I haven’t put any carbs in my body for a long time. Brad (44m 28s): And that’s when we have a bigger picture here of like, if I’m, you know, greatly restricting my carbohydrates and I’m going out there and doing high difficulty, high intensity workouts, I’m certainly going to be making my own glucose to fuel my exercise habits and whatever else I need to do to get through the day. And so, you know, th that’s when you realize that this is just a gateway to more information and more measuring, and then, you know, seeing how well did you feel like you slept that night? And if it’s a thumbs up or thumbs down, then you can go back, look at the numbers and see what’s going on. And you mentioned briefly someone doing an intervention of, well, let’s ask, you know, could we, could we have this athlete sitting down for a sweet potato at 7:00 PM as part of their strategy to sleep better because it worked a few times and it’s validated by the numbers? Molly (45m 23s): For sure. In what you’re saying with, you know, if you’re following a, more of a strict, you know, diets, it’s very common, you know, and we see this more it’s physiological insulin resistance. So it’s like this adaptive glucose string that arises for individuals who are, you know, on a ketogenic diet or very low carb diet for extended periods of time. So we do see that rise in fasting levels. And I don’t think there’s enough research on it at this point to indicate what they’re not, it’s a particularly a bad thing, but in my eyes, if everything else is great, you know, metabolically, if you get your labs tested and everything looks okay, and that’s kind of like that one indicator that seems offset, I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. Molly (46m 16s): So Brad (46m 16s): You mentioned that you want to see, I mean, that was a big statement that you pay more attention to postprandial glucose than fasting. And so that kind of redirects us nicely to our meal choices and how we do in the aftermath. But you said you want to see a return to baseline in two to three hours. And that strikes me as quite a long time, you know, three hours after lunch. I would, I would hope that I’m still not in this, you know, glucose processing state, but, you know, maybe you can describe that time window from what the research says and, and why it seems so long to the lay person here talking, Molly (46m 55s): Right. So when you eat something like it can, your glucose may not start hit its peak till maybe like an hour and a half or something. So if you think about it, you know, it should be hitting it in that first hour or so, and then start to come back down. But it takes longer than you’d think to start rising. I think that’s kind of a nuance there. Right? So then, you know, coming back down, I would say for the most part in generally healthy people, they come back down to that two to three hour frame. Brad (47m 27s): So when you have a pineapple flavored hot fudge sundae with a Slurpee, it’s still going to take a while to have an extreme spike in glucose? Molly (47m 38s): If it’s pure. Yeah. Great. Just straight sugar. Usually I will see that’s usually when I’ll see like a spike and then it’ll come down down faster because it’s easily processed when there’s other macronutrients involved. So there’s fat involved or, you know, protein, the fat delays, how the glucose is infiltrating into our bloodstream. So say you have a high fat, high starchy meal, like pizza, right? You eat that. You have a super high spike since there’s fat in there, it’s delaying how that carbohydrates being processed. Molly (48m 20s): So then that’s when we see that larger area out of the curve through the, the glucose response. And it’s typical to see like four plus hours until you returned back to baseline from, from those situations. And if you think about it,` your body’s working hard to process that carbohydrate, but also the fats in the mix, like slowing it down so it can take longer. And, you know, then there’s the alternative, right? Where, you know, if you eat something like an apple and you eat it, like probably your glucose is going to spike, come back down relatively early. But if you do have that spike, you can add something like protein or, you know, so maybe you do like a hard boiled egg. Molly (49m 1s): In addition to that, that apple, and you might see a, you probably will see a far more mitigated glucose response. So the protein pretty much like mitigates the response fat can be helpful as well, like in those smaller portion sizes. But I would say the, the fat plus starch, like from more processed food is what are the worst responses, but the fat and protein can be helpful with like more simple whole foods. If that makes sense. Brad (49m 34s): Well, we know not to eat hyper palatable, processed foods, combining processed carbohydrate and fat, not only because of our w what our reading says, but because they hijack the dopamine receptors on the brain and they lead to addictive behavior toward those foods. And if you can think of the top 20 indulgent, popular treats, desserts, they’re all pretty much throwing in processed carbs and fats. So you have ice cream, potato chips, and so on down the line, a milkshake, whatever. But I, I guess just to drill down a little more, you’re going to just grab an apple in the afternoon for a healthy snack as a healthy person. Brad (50m 18s): How do we compare contrast that with having a soda at 3:00 PM versus the apple? Molly (50m 27s): Right? So with like sugar is sugar and our body’s going to respond to it. So with the Coke, you know, or probably to have a blood sugar response, but it’s the influx of the amount of carbohydrates at once. So with an apple, if you think about it, there’s fiber in the mix, right. And it’s a natural foods source. So there are working components in that food that is natural, and our body knows how to break that down versus a Coke. There’s probably, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s so many more carbohydrates coming in at once that our body has that, you know, most of the time has a higher blood sugar response. Molly (51m 11s): So there is a difference in the composition of more processed meals versus more whole foods, right? So obviously I’m going to, you know, if someone’s having a spike from Coke, I would say, you know, an apple is a better response in general because it is a more natural food source, but of course someone might have a higher spike from that. So then, you know, the next step would be okay, how can we manage that spike then from the apple? And, you know, that’s when that protein pairing and the whole idea, like no naked carbs consumed at once can be helpful. So pairing it with a, you know, a protein or fat to help modulate that response. Brad (51m 51s): So we’re envisioning this, this graph, when you open up your app, you see a graph of the glucose numbers going through the hours of the day. So it’s like a, a Richter scale for the earthquake, and we’re not necessarily looking for just a flat line, but we kind of want to have, if there is a, if there is a spike, we want to bring it back within that two to three hours. And also, I would imagine we don’t want to see any dips, well below baseline, because that implies a, an insulin response maybe from the soda. So would that be one of the compare contrast with the apple and the hard boiled egg where you’re, you’re gonna get a, a spike, anytime you eat anything, but then it’s going to kind of gracefully slide down the bunny slope back to back to norm versus this Richter scale where you’re, you’re taking a dive after the soda. Molly (52m 46s): Yeah, definitely. So that’s the whole idea of reactive hypoglycemia. And we see it often with more processed or a larger influx of carbohydrates at once. So your body responds to that influx by producing more insulin, maybe then it than it should. And so you do see that spike, but then you see that huge plummet then afterwards it’s dipping super low into more hypoglycemic ranges. And if, you know, if someone, you know, I see that happen, I ask someone, you know, did you experience any symptoms at this point? Yes. Then, you know, this is something that’s definitely not, you know, a good meal, you should be eating, but I mostly see that reactive hypoglycemic response with more processed foods, then a more whole food. Molly (53m 37s): And you know, that, that protein combination is very helpful for that aspect. Brad (53m 42s): But I have heard thrown around here and there, you made one mention of it where you have certain, I would say weird sensitivities to what is seemingly a healthy food in the, in the health category, on the chart on the wall. So some people do fine with the sweet potato and some people do terribly, but they do fine with a pineapple. Is that validated by the data that you’ve seen from all your members and from research? Molly (54m 13s): What do you think it’s more so like a sensitivity to the food? Brad (54m 16s): Yeah. Like here’s a hundred grams of carbohydrates in a bowl of brown rice. Here’s a hundred grams in a, a pineapple cottage cheese, a blueberry, a bowl, and one, the same person responds adversely to one versus the other. Molly (54m 34s): Yeah. Like in, it’s hard to detect like sensitivities. And I see it rarely because in my mind, I’m like, is it a sensitivity or are you just poorly responding to the carbohydrate? Right. And I think it’s more, you know, there’s so many working variables, but it could be hormonal and degrees of insulin resistance at play. So I think for the most part, you know, in my case, it’s, for example, you know, I may have a smaller degree of insulin resistance because I cannot tolerate that, that carbohydrate well, so it was just earlier signs of it. Whereas someone who is metabolically healthy, they can tolerate it well. Molly (55m 16s): Right. And there’s, yeah, it it’s truly is just dependent on, on the individual and how they respond. So that’s why testing is the best way to go and just see how you respond and recover based on, you know, your own body. So, Brad (55m 32s): Okay. Here’s a weird one from my wife, Mia Moores’s data. And I’m curious if you see anticipatory drops in glucose before a meal or anticipatory spikes before a meal where we’re thinking we were reading the data accurately and going wait, that was, that was an hour before we sat down and had food after a long period of time. You know? So I wonder if any of there there’s weird things that people report and can’t get explained. And if you see some trends where you’re answering the same question frequently, Molly (56m 7s): Well, with the lower dips, I would say, yeah, like you, a lot of the time someone might feel hungry at this time and that could be associated with those lower dips. So my suggestion, the suggestion there would be, you know, eating something, help alleviate that with a glucose spike. That’s more interesting. And I would say there might be another variable at play. So, you know, what were you exercising or was there heat involved or something else? But I usually won’t see a spike, like an anticipatory spike, but I’ll see a dip which promotes that hunger. Molly (56m 47s): I’m trying to think of other things that, you know, someone might be curious about with when they’re measuring their glucose data. And I think a lot of the times, you know, especially cause we have a lot of data oh. And carnivore people. So they try out a lot of the keto products. Right. So think that, because it says keto on the label that, you know, you can eat it and you’re not going to have a blood sugar response, but there’s so many nuances to that. And I think a lot of times we’ll get super confused cause I’ll eat these keto products and they still see a glucose response and other people, they might not. So it, and again, it’s just more education. So it’s like, it’s still at the end of the day is a processed food. Molly (57m 28s): Right. So, and you know, some people, Brad (57m 30s): This show is sponsored by keto snacks. Here’s the commercial eat this thing in a package or box or wrapper, and you’ll be fine, don’t worry. Molly (57m 40s): But yeah, at least I see it all the time. And you know, I always encourage someone to try them out because if, if you know, it’s not the best response and maybe you should, you know, remove it and replace it with more of a whole food product. Right. That’s the ideal here that we’re a more whole foods. Brad (57m 58s): This show is sponsored by Brad’s Macadamia Masterpiece, the whole food processed, delicious. It’s a wonderful snack. And it probably won’t spike your glucose unless you have a weird sensitivity to it. Tell me about how heat, dehydration and a workout might show up on your chart. How, how it plays out with blood glucose. Molly (58m 22s): Yeah. So Brad (58m 22s): it’s not altogether of saying each one, we don’t want to go and work out and get dehydrated, but you, you mentioned heat, which I, I have no idea how that might influence blood glucose. So I threw that in, but I also think dehydration could be something that has a, has a profound response and then workouts in general. Molly (58m 43s): Yeah. So he, especially now that it’s been summertime. I’ve seen spikes all the time, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s more so I believe it’s, it’s through like we’re measuring the interstitial fluid with the continuous glucose monitor. So it’s something with fluid alterations there, but you know, someone might have a spike from being outside, you know, sunbathing, but that’s not a concern to me. It’s something I see all the time. So he’s fine. Even if you go to your shower or your sauna, very normal to see that, that glucose with dehydration. Molly (59m 27s): I see it with, if I’m looking at an exercise, for example, at sometimes, you know, something that I’ll suggest, if you know, they’re working out in a fasted state, you know, it’s normal to see a glucose response from a higher intensity exercise and, you know, it’s our body, you know, producing the, the it’s the hepatic glucose output. That’s fueling that exercise. So it’s a normal thing. It’s not a bad thing. It’s, you know, it’s not insulin mediated. So a glucose response from a workout is different than a glucose response from food, but with high duration, yeah. Molly (1h 0m 7s): That’s something that I’ll consider if someone is having a higher spike and they’re trying to get it down and they’re concerned, even though it might not be super concerning hydration status can, can be helpful there. So, you know, feeling with electrolytes and, or, you know, water of course can be helpful there. And it’s, it’s, it’s definitely something that is seen, but it’s, you know, not as often with exercise. As I was discussing, it’s normal to see a response from that with higher intensity exercises is normal. See a spike, but generally speaking, we want to keep levels that at least below like 180. Molly (1h 0m 49s): So beyond that eight, like say if you’re doing a workout it’s super high intensity and you hit 200, there is, you know, it would be blood vessel damage that’s occurring at this point. So I would either suggest, you know, lowering the intensity or we can work in manipulating or adding, you know, fuel before. And, you know, I usually experiment with facet, state versus carbohydrate beforehand versus, or just a protein source beforehand. So everyone kind of varies differently depending on, you know, the different factors. So I usually, I just like to experiment. I’m just because I’ve seen so much data and there’s no, you know, direct correct answer for anyone. Molly (1h 1m 35s): So exploration is really the only answer and we can only discover that through trying out these different things. So it’s super exciting when someone is open to that and we can actually see the effects. So, but with, you know, so that’s with higher intensity exercise and seeing those, those spikes, but with more low-intensity, so something like walking or you’re going really slow on the elliptical or something like that, it’s normal to see a glucose dip dispose of any excess glucose. For example, if you have a high spike after a meal, walking is a, an excellent way to help bring those levels back down sooner, especially later on at night, when we’re, we have a decreased insulin sensitivity in general, it’s going to be harder. Molly (1h 2m 22s): It’s more likely to see that, that larger area under the curve. So, you know, that walk after your dinnertime meal, even if it’s 10 minutes is, can be super effective in bringing your glucose levels down. So, and then with more like strength training, it depends on the intensity as well, but usually I’ll just see like a small budge. So, you know, it’s, there is difference in, you know, low intensity strength training, no more aerobic high intensity training. So if someone does test out their blood sugar and they do see it as spike and, you know, from, from exercise, it’s completely normal and expected and we just want to avoid hitting those super super high levels Brad (1h 3m 6s): You mentioned area under the curve, a couple of times that scientific term, it might be defined as spending as little time as possible in that no man’s land where your blood glucose is higher than your baseline, and it’s lingering there for hours after the meal. So I guess the goal is to kind of tighten that area under the curve. Is that an accurate definition? Molly (1h 3m 29s): Yeah, so we’re thinking conceptually, like if we’re looking at data, you know, if you see a spike that, you know, hits 110 and then it comes back down in two hours, you know, that’s a smaller area under the curve or versus if you have a spike to, you know, 155 and then it’s sitting up there and then comes down in a lower where there’s a larger portion under that curve. So that’s that area under the curve. So we want to have like more tighter regulation of that. So again, that just plays into how we’re processing the meal, Brad (1h 4m 3s): Molly, we got a lot of info to, to, to sort out here what a, what a great, great talk. Thank you so much for taking the time. I think people will be highly interested in learning more at Nutrisense. I have a discount for my listeners. I’ll convey that. And the one thing that I’m curious about as the, as the 27 dieticians are there waiting for new members to join, this to me, I believe it’s a very formal education in whether you’re getting a degree in nutrition certified dietician, which is way more studying. We’re kind of talking about USDA, American Dietary Association, very traditional type of, you know, methodology. Brad (1h 4m 52s): And so I’m wondering, sounds like you did a little bit of your own journey, especially with your own health problems, but when people emerge from this area of training, how does that kind of pair up with the progressive health or the ancestral health movement? Molly (1h 5m 9s): Yeah, so, I mean, ultimately we’re all like as dieticians, we’re all certified under the same umbrella and right. This a field that is new. So we don’t expect, you know, the new dieticians coming in. Like maybe they have more experience in functional medicine or integrative medicine, but a lot of it comes through like self exploration and there’s so much information out there now. So it shouldn’t that person who’s going to go out there and, you know, search for, for more information through listening to podcasts or books or, you know, any other way to explore more reasonings behind everything. Molly (1h 5m 55s): So again, we’re the dietetics field we’re trained under these, you know, certain, you know, regulations, but it just takes the, the people who are, you know, have that curious mind to explore other ideas. So yeah, it’s, we’ve, we’ve formed an excellent team. It’s, it’s so much fun and it’s, it’s, it’s exciting watching everything grow. So, Brad (1h 6m 19s): And when you’re interacting one-on-one with the client, I suppose you’re stopping short of dictating dietary recommendations or a certain diet. And if they announced that they’re plant-based high carbohydrate eater, you’re just going to kind of help them analyze the data. And I don’t know, maybe make some gentle suggestions about just like you said, protein pairing and things like that. And then they can, they can take an, a run with it just to be just to be clear. It’s not like you’re, it’s not the Nutrisense diet. It’s the Nutrisense technology helping you sort out, whether this crazy diet that you’ve decided to follow is contributing to your health, or it could be a red flag or a yellow flag as you call it. Molly (1h 6m 59s): Exactly. Like we don’t promote any sort of diet. We promote, you know, what works for that individual persons. So we base it off of what we’re seeing in the data, their health history, and, you know, we make our recommendations from there, but we trust, you know, it’s always, we want to work with the person, you know, where they’re at and, you know, we make our suggestions based off of that. So we’re never like forcing anything upon anyone. We’re just purely providing that data, providing the education, giving the information that we know and, you know, maybe they might not, it might not resonate with them like right then and there, but like maybe two years from now, they’ll be like, oh yeah, I forgot. Molly (1h 7m 40s): I did that. And I learned this and I was not responding. Maybe I should make this change now. So it is just it’s information for the person to, you know, make better decisions for Brad (1h 7m 52s): Them. Yeah, no judgment. Just a three out of 10 score for that bag of dried mangoes that you killed on the drive home from Costco. No offense just here it is on your chart. Thank you very much. Oh boy. Molly Downey. Great show listeners can learn more at Nutrisense N UT R I S E N S E. And I think it was super fun. Keep up the great work. Thanks for listening to everybody. Molly (1h 8m 16s): So great talking to you, Brad Brad (1h 8m 21s): Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (1h 9m 6s): It helps raise the profile of the B.rad podcast and attract new listeners. 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