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Dr. Wendy Walsh is back for a fourth appearance on the B.rad podcast! Dr. Wendy is one of my favorite guests ever because she brings her A-game every time and dispenses an assortment of life-changing tips and insights in an easy to understand manner that you’ll remember and reflect on for a long time.

Today we set a record for one of the most information-packed, fast moving shows ever—in 36 minutes we cover enough for a typical show of double that length!

This episode will teach all about the three major attachment styles (avoidant, anxious, and insecure), how to balance our deepest biological drives with modern relationship dynamics, and what leads to sex being a “higher risk hobby” for women these days. You’ll also receive some free couples therapy and learn the five ways to sustain connection and romantic passion in your relationship. Finally, Dr. Wendy shares how she got 1 million TikTok followers in just one year, describes the four stages of personal development, and talks about the importance of examining the unconscious process and programming we all carry from childhood in order to improve our relationships. We also talk about her Patreon club, which I just joined—incredible value for only $40.80 a year!

Dr. Wendy is America’s thought leader on relationships, a media commentator who is obsessed with the science of love, and the host of The Dr. Wendy Walsh Show. She also lectures on evolutionary psychology and human mating strategies at California State University Channel Islands and holds a B.A. in Journalism, a Masters degree in Psychology, and a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology. 

TIMESTAMPS:

The three major attachment styles are avoidant, anxious, and insecure. [01:25]


There are some people who prey on others using the drug called love. [08:09]

Look at everyone’s life as a slice. Wendy represents the light at the end of the tunnel. [11:09]

This period of COVID has amplified our isolation. [12:45]

The more choice you have, the less likely you are to make a choice. [14:11]

Sex is a much higher risk hobby for women. [18:14]

Love is very much like a drug using the same brain processes as a drug addiction. [20:36]   

What is emotional intimacy? [23:09]

Imagine that your attachment injury that makes you choose partners that are wrong for you is a hole in the middle of the street. [25:59]


The person who has an avoidant attachment style needs to be avoidant because that’s a safe place for them. [33:04]

Here are five tips for free couple’s therapy. Number one is to catch them being good. [35:30]

Learn reflective listening. And schedule everything. [38:01]

Digital detox can only enhance the relationships in your life. And number five is to bring fun and novelty into the relationship. [40:49]

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad [00:01:25] Listeners. Another fantastic treat of an action packed, fast moving, life changing show from one of my favorite guests of all time, Dr. Wendy Walsh, America’s relationship expert. Oh my gosh. She comes through as advertised with an incredibly action packed fast moving show, filled with insights at rapid fire pace. It’s really, we talk for 36 minutes. It really is like a regular show of twice as long. And so buckle up, listen carefully, turn it down to 1.0 speed. If you usually listen at 1.5 or 2.0 speed, because boy, you are gonna get some wonderful takeaways. She’s such an expert at distilling complex information steeped in her background of evolutionary psychology into pithy takeaways that you’ll never forget, especially the whole in the street story about the four stages of personal development, personal change, and increased awareness. You’re gonna love it. So we’re gonna talk about all kinds of great topics with relationships and personal growth.

Brad (02:32):
We’re gonna talk about how she got to a million TikTok followers in just one year and then get into some important matters of modern times modern dating. She talks about the paradox of choice, which is when you’re presented with more and more choices. You have more difficult time making a choice and sticking to it and appreciating it. And that’s especially true for the instant access to more dating prospects like we’ve never had before these and many other things are in conflict with our basic biological drives and human genetics. So it’s not gonna change, but it’s important to learn how to navigate the potentially rough waters of modern dating and even modern relationships. Okay. So we’re gonna get into all kinds of stuff, but, touching on this major recurring theme that we hear so much from her and from other shows like my recent show with Dr.

Brad (03:27):
Bruce Lipton, and that is the subconscious programming that we absorbed in childhood that affects our behaviors in everyday life. She’s gonna talk about the three main attachment styles and please go back and listen to our previous podcast. I believe this is number four and maybe this was the third one, and I encourage you to listen to all of them. They’re so easy to navigate to on Brad kearns.com on the podcast landing page or on your podcast player. You can just type in Wendy Walsh when you get to the B.rad podcast. Uh, but the three major attachment styles are avoidant, anxious and secure. So there you go. When she touches on those at fast pace in the show. I’m teeing you up a little bit, giving you a sneak preview, hopefully it’ll help. But we have a lot of conflict between this evolved, progressive modern society, uh, the evolving sexual roles and sexual behaviors.

Brad (04:23):
There’s a conflict between our deepest biological drives. And that’s a topic that John Gray talks about in detail when he is covering his content of beyond Mars and Venus. The book that describes the hormonal underpinnings that affect modern relationship dynamics and Wendy’s big theme is how this free exchange of resources that we engage in today were things that were previously strongly underpinned by the basic biological drives. The favorite example is how females can give it up easy today, which is in conflict with that wiring, that genetics, where when you’re pairing up, you’re looking at a long term commitment that ensures resources are provided for your offspring. Yes, this stuff is still floating around in our modern day brains. And Wendy suggests that this leads to sex being a quote, higher risk hobby for women these days now. All kinds of people are gonna be, experiencing pushback and contention with some of these arguments that she makes.

Brad (05:32):
But she makes the very important point that you don’t have to judge. You just have to be aware of how these things play out and decide how to live your life and see what’s working for you, but constantly check in and see how things are going and how things feel, especially as it relates to your attachment styles and how these might be playing out in subconscious patterns that don’t work so good. And that’s where we get to this amazing, uh, uh, parable about the four stages of personal change and the big hole in the street. So be sure to pay attention when she describes that progression. You’re also gonna get some free couples therapy. Yes, indeed. With the five best tips for preserving connection and excitement in long term relationships. So here we go with another fantastic show, Dr. Wendy Walsh, and I encourage you to do what I just did.

Brad (06:24):
I went over to patreon.com and searched for Wendy Walsh and joined her wonderful club of love adventurers, what she calls them. It’s the exclusive club of people who are deep into her working get all these wonderful benefits. And it costs me all of $40 and 80 cents for an annual membership. How can you turn that down? Oh my gosh. So much fun with Dr. Wendy, what a privilege to share her with you. Enjoy the show, Dr. Wendy Walsh. I’m so glad to connect with you for a very short, fast action show, which is turns out to be your specialty. I was gonna ask you, what have you been up to, but I know now you’ve been acquiring a freaking million TikTok followers. That’s sensational.

Wendy (07:11):
You know, a year ago when I hired a professional social media manager, after only using social media to put up like pictures of my kids or whatever. She said, oh, you need to have a TikTok channel. And I’m like, isn’t that for dancing teenagers? She said, no doctors are on there all the time. Just do what you do on the radio, but do it in short little TikTok videos and boom in one year from zero followers to a million. And that does change your life a bit.

Brad (07:37):
That’s what I love out to is you have this incredible research background in evolutionary psychology, and this is not just fun and game stuff, but you distill it to the, the average person in these memorable takeaways. And now I think this is our fourth show. We’ve talked about so much, but there’s always some fun, exciting, new stuff to pull outta. And I, I have of course, uh, a bunch of notes, but I’m just happy to check in with you. Tell us how that, that, that growth has been and what, um, you know, what you’ve been focused on lately.

Wendy (08:09):
Well, what I’m learning is a lot about what people are going through, and I love the engagement. I love to read the comments. I try to answer as many as I can. This time of COVID really amplified our isolation. Largely our relationship problems have led to our mental health issues and our addiction issues. It’s all connected and our physical health issues. We’re wired to bond. We need social support. We should be living in multi-generational clans, but we’re alone in our living rooms on zoom. We’ve got virtual friends, we’re meeting strangers on dating apps. All of that raises your cortisol levels. On top of that, you know, part of the human mating game is deception, right at the very beginning, we all deceive each other just a little bit. I mean, a push up bra is a deception, right? A man who takes a picture for his dating app in front of a sports car, he doesn’t own is deception.

Brad (09:11):
That’s a big deception. Come on. That’s that’s way worse than a push up bra. Oh my goodness.

Wendy (09:15):
Oh, no. I was at LAX one day. And there was a Tesla Rosa parked there, and all these young guys were asking the owner, could they take a picture in front of the car? It was a lineup of guys. So, unfortunately, there are some people who prey on others using the drug called love. And so I’m finding in my followers, especially with the women, huge amounts of financial abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, and my heart is breaking for them. But the more I hear from them, the, you know, you probably know tick tok is a very authentic, open, intimate kind of social media. It’s not like a bunch of poses on Instagram and I’ve been sharing stories of my life, which helps me feel connected to them and them connected to me. And so that’s really, if in one word, if somebody said, how did you blow up on TikTok in one year? I would say, it’s the relationships I have with my followers.

Brad (10:22):
Wow. That’s great. And I really appreciate that interaction you had when someone was teasing you for showing off with your fabulous new Tesla where we’ve recorded two podcasts inside, I believe so. It’s definitely a worthwhile business write off for you. But it just kind of lends itself to realizing that everything we see is the tip of the iceberg. Even Dr. Wendy showing off her fabulous new car, and then you proceeded to relate to everybody how far you’ve come and the struggles that you’ve endured, and guess what you deserve a freaking awesome car and you work super hard and all that. And I don’t think we see that direction as much as we should and in realizing and appreciating and, and being grateful for even when you exist in abundance. That’s, that’s wonderful. And, it’s okay.

Wendy (11:09):
Well, you know, to, to look at anybody’s life as a slice, even if you see someone being a bad parent in public, you know. Look at their life as a slice and then generally generalize it to their entire persona and their values and their morals. It Is wrong. Okay. We can’t do that. And so you’re referring to a comment that somebody made that they called me a show off because I did a video in my car. And I said, you know, I have forgotten that I was once a single mother in a studio apartment with no job. I haven’t forgotten the day that there were, I, you know, there was a grocery store cart full of food and a screaming two year old. I think she was actually throwing up that day, too. And every credit card I had declined, I haven’t forgot that I was knocked unconscious in my own kitchen, by the father of my children.

Wendy (12:00):
I haven’t forgot all those years, but what I try to show my followers is that I am, I represent the light at the end of their tunnel. And that now years afterwards, I own property. Yes, I drive a Tesla. My daughter went to Harvard and I did it all without the help of any man during patriarchy. Not gonna lie to you, it was tough. But I’m here to say, it can be done. I have great compassionate and empathy for anyone of any gender going through any abuse in their relationships. And I’ve got the science and the life experience to help them get to the other side.

Brad (12:45):
Do you think this abuse and manipulation is getting worse? Is it possibly related to quarantine and our desperation to connect or is this kind of, has it always been there and it’s being more highlighted now?

Wendy (12:57):
Well, I think it’s a combination of art. You use the word desperation, but our most basic human need for attachment. And the fact that technology hasn’t gotten us any closer. It’s created a veil of separation that allows the deceivers to operate better. Whether it’s romance scams or people. I don’t know if you’ve seen the Netflix documentary, the Tinder Swindler? Oh my goodness. That guy had girlfriends in five or six different cities. And he was borrowing money from them pretending to be a billionaire son and using one woman’s money to and dine another woman. And it just went on and on and on. And these poor young women went into bankruptcy because of love.

Brad (13:44):
That’s pretty heavy. Clearly that’s a, you know, out on the extreme, sociopath example, but I also wonder are some people doing this, unwitingly where they’re engaged with multiple prospects on online, and then they can’t bring themselves to be honest. And, they’re just going down these roads where they’re, they’re kind of drifting down without noticing or something?

Wendy (14:11):
Well, I will say this about the dating apps. We all suffer from something called a paradox of choice. That the more choice you have, the less likely you are to make a choice. And if you do make it choice, you don’t value that choice very much. So I will say there’s a lot of dating apathy on those apps, where people are messaging and talking and juggling a whole bunch of fantasy people in a way, and not either meeting them in the real world or when they do date them, not making commitment to anyone because they’re so that they’re letting a bigger, better deal go away. And so I think that it does take some presence of mind. It takes some self discipline. Otherwise the app is going to biohack your brain and there are tips and tricks to using the dating apps in a safe way.

Brad (14:54):
So what do we do to stay away from that ridiculous roller coaster, where you’re always one foot out the door, one foot off the roller coaster ride, thinking that you’re gonna do better, whatever the thought is, I guess?

Wendy (15:09):
Well, you get off the apps and you focus on one person.

Brad (15:11):
Right.

Brad (15:11):
And then when it peters out, you move on to the next. In other words, like you spend some time assessing a particular mate, not just answering a bunch of texts that’s gonna give you a dopamine rush for nothing.

Brad (15:23):
And back to your, um, evolutionary psychology roots, is it okay that we can exist for the next 20, 30 years of our life in a succession of two year relationships and the excitement wears off, and then we proceed to the next one? I mean, you say that there’s no rules and all these you know, awakenings that we have in present day. But I’m wondering if, you know, we’re gonna be in conflict with our desire to bond for a long term, or is it an entirely individual?

Wendy (15:56):
Okay. So homo sapiens have the widest range of sexual behavior of any primate species. In one mating marketplace, there’s gonna be somebody looking for a super short term relationship called a hookup and somebody else who’s going to look for lifelong monogamy. What is normal for us or natural for us, as people ask me all the time, for the vast majority of people is a series of serial monogamy. Remember when our hunter gatherers got together, they stayed the bonding and the love and the feeling and the attachment lasted long enough to get kids up and out the nest, but kids were up and out of the nest and procreating after about 12 or 13 years.

Wendy (16:40):
So now what it takes to raise a kid is four years of college, getting their life settled. So it may be 20 years or more, that you need to stay together. Add to that the fact that life expectancies are just continuing to extend. So even the most monogamous of human beings may find themselves having two or even three stints of long term monogamy with some mate selection in between. So answer is, are we tiring easily of, if your question is, do we easily of partners because there seems to be more mating opportunity out there? Some people will be vulnerable to that because again, in our hunter gatherer pass and what our DNA is wired for, we never laid eyes on more than about 150 people in our entire lifespan. And so the idea that thousands of new potential romantic mates are, and well, those 150 people, most of ’em were related to us that we would be exposed to thousands of potential romantic mates daily is messing with our biology.

Brad (17:49):
And there are numerous other areas where our biology is in conflict with the incredibly evolved and, and progressive modern culture. What are some other red flags we need to watch out for where I think I can guess some of your answers, but, you know, the, the free and liberated modern human is still walk in conflict with these basic biological drives and the male female archetypes.

Wendy (18:14):
Yeah. People hate me for this cuz they don’t like me to show them their biology in the mirror, but sex is a much higher risk hobby for women. You know, our bodies haven’t changed. Women because of their very unique biology are much likely to contract an STI. They’re more likely to fall in love through sex than men are because their bodies admit so much of the bonding hormone oxytocin during sex. And they’re more likely to contract an 18 year case of parenthood. So as a result, women have this misguided idea that female sexual freedom is behaving like what they think a man behaves like. And by the way, we have the widest range of male sexual behavior. So if you think that all men will take all sex in any sex at any cost, you don’t know men, right? And so women are emulating that.

Wendy (19:08):
And then wondering why they, I can’t quote unquote, find a commitment oriented man. And they’re using short term strategies for long term goals. That’s the biggest problem. And I think female sexual freedom is learning how to respect our very precious and unique biology, understanding the mechanism, the hormonal mechanisms play, and also thinking about what your relationship life plan is. Like I hear people of all genders say things like, you know, if it happens or if I meet the right person. If, if, if, if it’s like saying, if I go to college or if I get a job. No, you make plans to do all those things and do all the things you need to to make that right. So the same with your relationship life plan. It’s not an if it’s when I decide to engage in this behavior.

Brad (20:01):
Wow. Okay. So let’s say, we are, uh, successful. We found mate, we’re going along. There’s a honeymoon period. You’ve seen the, or you’ve cited the different research. Different people are saying that the first 12 months or the first 24 months are a chemical storm of hormones and you’re not making reasonable judgements. You’re just going along for the ride. And then things settle into normal ordinary routine. You’re looking at the, the long term consequences. And how do we preserve that excitement that sparked that romantic passion that came, that allow us to come together in the first place?

Wendy (20:36):
Yeah. Love is very much like a drug. And in fact it uses the same brain processes as a drug addiction. So if you think about it this way, when you first start to use a drug, it feels really great. And then you want more and more and more of it. You wanna see that person more and more and more and maybe even move in with them, right? You wanna move in with your drug. And so after a while the drug doesn’t work. You build up something called a tolerance. And then you’re just having to take the drug continually because the withdrawal symptoms are so bad. And that is exactly what love is. And so love is a drug and at a certain point we need more and more and more of it until it doesn’t feel as exciting anymore. But the thought of separation, it hurts so much more.

Wendy (21:25):
And so how can we get the feeling of the drug back? And it’s about adding novelty to your relationship.Taking your partner to different places, doing different things together, changing the schema so that they look as a different person, right? That is super important that you work on novelty. Routine is the death of love, right? Sure. So you have to mix it up now too much novelty, of course, can be a threat in your relationship. I’m not suggesting you go out to nightclubs and dance with her all night. But you might try skydiving. I don’t know, adding a little bit of excitement. And then the other thing is I want you to continually get to know your partner, because guess what? That person you married is not the same person 10 years later. Like literally every cell in their body has changed and replicating.

Wendy (22:14):
They’re literally a different person and they should be changing and growing across a lifespan. And so should you. So it’s about spending time continuing to get to know your new and ever changing partner. But what we do is we’ll like go to change on the side. We don’t let our partner know how much we’ve changed, cuz we’ll stay in the routine with our partner because we fear they’ll hate us or abandon us because of our change. So we go off and change in another room and then one day we go, Hey, who I am now doesn’t fit this relationship. You forgot to adjust the relationship while you changed. Right?

Brad (22:54):
I guess sometimes that could be difficult because everyone’s use to the familiar patterns. And so it might take some good communication experimentation. The novelty could be thrown right in there as a, as a catalyst for change.

Wendy (23:09):
At the end of the day, it’s always emotional intimacy. That is both the glue, the exploration, the excitement, the connection, and people will say what’s emotional intimacy, Dr. Wendy? And if you have to answer that question or have to ask me that question, then I know that in your family of origin, you were not given a language for feelings or you are not told that any feelings except happiness are allowed in the public areas of the house, right? And so you are terrified. You walk around with a fake persona of happiness and you are terrified to speak your truth. Or maybe you have an anxious attachment style and you fear abandonment so much that if you cause any problems and bring up your authenticity, that they’ll leave you in some way. And this is how people get stuck in these patterns that become boring.

Brad (24:06):
Wow. And it does go back to that attachment style. We covered that a lot in a previous show, but I guess we could recap a little bit the importance of understanding where you’re coming from and why, why you might be playing out these patterns.

Wendy (24:21):
Yeah. So we have this model for love this idea about what love should be, excuse me, all the shoulds we have. And we have ways out of our unconsciousness of choosing partners who will replicate that feeling of love all is very well and good. If the love you experienced, this model of love, that happened about shaped in your first three years of life. If that model of love is filled with peace, security, safety, trust, and joy. But if in your unconscious memory, love was filled with feelings of loss or criticism or abandonment or hurt, then you will go out and find partners who will behave that way cuz that’s normal to you.

Brad (25:06):
I guess each time that happens starting from your earliest romantic relationships. Oh

Wendy (25:13):
It starts in middle school. Yep.

Brad (25:14):
Right. You’re going to create these patterns and be more likely to

Wendy (25:18):
The patterns become reinforced. They become reinforced. Exactly. So people will say to me, oh, I’m with this boyfriend, but he has all these trust issues, excuse me, because of his ex-girlfriend or because of his past relationships. And I’m like, Nope, he doesn’t have trust issues because of that. He has trust issues because of what happened at the cradle. Right? And so it all starts at the beginning. And then what we do is we keep replicating it. Can you change those patterns? Absolutely. Can you heal? Absolutely. But you have to become conscious of the issue. Brad, can I share with you? I, I don’t know if I have before the three stages of personal change about the hole in the road. Did I ever tell you that metaphor?

Brad (25:58):
I don’t think so.

Wendy (25:59):
Okay. I just ate some whole milk yogurt with some grain free granola and some blueberries and the yogurt seems to have caused something in my throat or maybe it was the, all the nuts. Oh.

Brad (26:12):
Back to back shows could be a factor too.

Wendy (26:15):
And the fact I’ve been talking since 6:00 AM. Okay. And, uh, it’s almost noon. Okay. So imagine that your attachment injury that makes you choose partners that are wrong for you is a whole in the middle of the street. So stage one, you’re walking down the street, you don’t see the hole. You fall in it. Stage two. Somebody tells you about attachment theory. You learn a little bit about your attachment style. So now you go walking down the street and now you see that hole and you recognize it and you fall in it. Stage three is you walk down that street, you see the hole, you it, and you very carefully use your conscious mind to step carefully around that hole. And stage four is to take a different stream.

Brad (27:17):
Oh, sorry. I don’t see any relevance to my personal life. No, you got me there. No, no I can’t. I don’t ever know what you’re talking about. What hole? Wow. That’s heavy.

Wendy (27:25):
People who follow me on social media are at stage two or three. The ones who are at stage one say that’s a bunch of baloney or I can’t believe you are taking your imoral choices and blaming your attachment style. There’s people who believe in right or wrong. They don’t understand how the unconscious works. Those are my stage. One people

Brad (27:50):
Stage reading stage ones. How are you this morning? Exactly. It’s another wonderful sunny day. Everything’s perfect.

Wendy (27:57):
Yeah. If you just do the right thing as your religion and the laws say, Hmm, then you will be happy. Right? That one it’s like, God is this cop in the sky and institutions and structures have rules to keep people safe. Don’t bother me with anything going on in the unconscious. Then stage two is, oh my God, you just explained my whole life. How do I fix this? Stage three is, is I went on a date last night. I knew this guy was so bad for me. I slept with him anyway, what do I do now? Can I convert it into a long term relationship? Or is it a hookup? And I go that you’re in stage three. We’re gonna take another street with a different guy on another day. Okay. Or you’re going to the next time that guy triggers a woman triggers those feelings of anxiety. And you, you in the early stages, you’re not gonna sleep with them. You’re going to say, I gotta go. You’re not for me.

Brad (28:54):
That takes a lot of strength. A lot of awareness. I mean the hole’s a giant hole in the street. It’s easy to fall into. It seems. And boy, this is great. We’re talking about relationships, your area of expertise, but it, um, where, where does it not apply in life and everything? Your financial matters in your career path, your

Wendy (29:14):
Diet exercise,

Brad (29:16):
Right? How come I keep getting, getting beat in my, uh, sport of choice. I’m something’s wrong. I’m I’m blaming the outside world typically, right? Uh, when, when we fall in that hole, it’s, it’s the construction. We’re didn’t put a big enough sign up or what have you. It’s not, it’s not anything about my attachment style. It’s ridiculous.

Wendy (29:34):
No, actually, once you learn about attachment style, it becomes a lens to look through for every single interpersonal relationship. Whether it’s a workplace relationship, whether it’s your family members, you will start to see, you’ll say, Hey, trigger me. Well, what are they triggering? What attachment thing is coming up for you? But you will start to look at it. Like I will meet new people. I can tell in about 60 seconds with their attachment stylists. I can,

Brad (30:00):
You you’re talking about you personally. Yeah. You can tell in 60 seconds. Oh boy, wouldn’t that be intimidating people. If you wanna try to date Wendy Walsh. Oh my gosh. Bring your a game.

Wendy (30:10):
You’re right. All I have to do is say something authentic and vulnerable about me. And I watch their reaction. If they make a joke, if they’re dismissive, if they change to subject there, we have an avoidant person. If they reciprocate with, oh my God, this same thing happened to me. You wouldn’t believe. And then I see the anxiety, right? If instead they are their own separate person. And they look at me and show compassion without putting their anxiety into it. Like, wow, that must have been so hard for you. It’s it’s hard for me to imagine, cuz I haven’t had that happen in my life. There’s somebody with a secure attachment style. They wanna be able to give the care but not get sucked down into it.

Brad (30:52):
Um, explain that second reaction again. So the,

Wendy (30:55):
The person is going to totally coll their they’re attaching to me in the emotional story. Cause they need to get close and they fear a bit. So they immediately come up with another, a tragic story about them. That’s similar and their eye contact is such and they’re so connected with me. And it’s like anxiety about, I have to get close to this person, right? Because what, when you show an emotional vulnerability, it’s an open door. Come in, come into my mind, come into my so whole come in. And then you watch how people do they walk through the door? Do they shut the door? Right? Do they stand on their own side of the door and say, I can see you, but I’m not coming in there. There’s some crazy in there.

Brad (31:36):
So those are the three main, uh,

Wendy (31:38):
Those are three management style, but you know, the truth is it’s a long continuum scale. I mean just put a us into simple little categories, does an injustice to what it is to be a human being.

Brad (31:49):
Uh, I suppose there’s, uh, occasions where I’m going to, uh, exhibit the avoidant behavior, right? And then other times where I might be in a, whatever it is, it’s a different comment from a different person. And

Wendy (32:02):
Again, yeah, judge unfair to judge you about a slice. However, having said that since I have an anxious attachment style, one of the things that people with an anxious attachment style have is they’re highly perceptive to the emotions and feelings of others. They’re very empathetic. They’re very compassionate. They read people because often in their childhood there was inconsistency of care giving. And so they’re always as their brain was developing as a child, maybe it’s somebody who had alcoholic parents or their and gone parents, you know? Um, so they’re always trying to read them, is it safe? What I have to do? Are they, are they drunk? Are they sane? Are they good? What’s gonna happen here. And that happens during the developmental years while they’re act, their brain is, you know, growing. And so people with an anxious attachment style have huge, huge powers of perception.

Brad (32:54):
And so it becomes a, a potential area of weak, this vulnerability, whatever you wanna call it when it’s, when it’s overboard, your empathy or your, um,

Wendy (33:04):
Or strength. Like I, I think what we have to be really clear about in all of this is to put no judgment. There’s no good or bad Associa, attachment style really important. The person who has an avoidant attachment style needs to be avoidant because that’s a safe place for them and need to respect that. However, if their sense of self is triggering the anxious person and they’re in a romantic relationship together, they have to make a decision to, you know, become conscious of what they’re doing or separate. Otherwise they’re just gonna continue to hurt each other. Right? So every attachment style has. So the, um, highly perceptive one makes a, a great doctor, a great therapist, a great social worker, a great teacher, a great politician who can read the room right. And avoid it. One makes a great lawyer in a courtroom. Yeah. I’m gonna send that person to jail, but I can deal with that. I’m not gonna that feeling creep up. Right. They make, may make a good judge. They make sometimes a very good preacher because they’re, they’re all about that. Right. And wrong. Don’t, don’t worry, but don’t get touch anything tender in there. And then, uh, what else? And then the secure person of course is going to sometimes have a job that’s not hugely fulfilling because they have such fulfilling social relationships with their family and friends. And they’re coaching the little league team. And they’ve got such a big life outside of the warehouse that they work in.

Brad (34:32):
Huh.

Wendy (34:33):
Right. Because they have a secure attachment style. Right.

Brad (34:35):
Everything’s okay. They’re not, they don’t have that burning comparison. They don’t even

Wendy (34:40):
From the Hollywood and have an audience, they don’t go on TikTok and get a million followers.

Brad (34:44):
They’re

Wendy (34:45):
Perfectly happy.

Brad (34:47):
It’s just, yeah, everything’s fine. I love it. Yeah. That’s, that’s part of, uh, not judging cuz I think we’re so caught up in, uh, you know, the, the, um, consumerism and the measuring and judging of, uh, all the, all the ways that it were measured and judged today that you can, you can fall prey to that and um, be forever unhappy or unfulfilled as you continue to gain a following or earn more money or whatever it is.

Wendy (35:14):
And people with a secure attachment cell also might look at you and I, and say, why do those performer people, why does he need to achieve so much in why do they need a podcast? Why does she need that tick? That’s so weird. Why would they do that? Yeah, it’s

Brad (35:27):
Confusing today. Don’t judge people. Don’t judge,

Wendy (35:29):
Don’t judge,

Brad (35:30):
Uh, as promised this has been a, a fast moving show listeners. This is at least an hour long normal show, but we’ve just gone so hard. It’s, it’s incredible. And I, I want to, um, I, I know we have to wrap up shortly, but uh, you mentioned, uh, putting that novelty into the relationship and that was number five out of the five tips of the free couples therapy that you provided on one of your TikTok posts. So if we have time, I’d love for you to, uh, go over the previous four and then ending with that. Uh, fun, excitement, novelty.

Wendy (36:04):
Let’s see if I can remember them all

Brad (36:05):
I got you covered if, uh, if not, but the first one was catch them being good, which is such a cool concept.

Wendy (36:11):
So important is that what happens when we compliment our partners on the day is we do some things we Enlive in the highest parts of them, right? They start to behave like a better person, cuz we’re speaking to the highest parts of their personality. And secondly, we remind our own brain of why we were there in the first place. What we love about our partner, when you start to spiral down into what have you done for me lately and, and negativity that grows, that grows in your relationship. Okay. What was number two?

Brad (36:43):
Yeah. Just before we leave that point, that’s so powerful because it’s like anything we verbalize, uh, we kind of manifest that type of experience in our, in our personality. So if we’re complaining about the traffic in Los Angeles, rather than I was just talking to my a daughter last night, like, you know how many freaking freeways are here and how awesome that is because you can’t go, you can go anywhere and there’s a freeway. It might be going 30 miles an hour, but try doing on stoplights. It’s, it’s a, it’s a wonderful gift. Even if it’s full. Anyway,

Wendy (37:13):
I do wanna say that about, uh, what you were expanding on is that there are lots of brains in the room listening. And you know, my favorite example, I can’t remember which psychologist I heard use this example on a podcast. Uh, I should credit it, but I love it. And he said, I have a dog, the dog knows the word walk and I could be having any conversation with anybody in a room. And if I mentioned the word walk, he jumps up and down. And so in the same way, if you remind your brain of why you love your love, your brain will jump up and down with happiness because you’ll be triggered. But if you’re always criticizing all the brains in the room will activate. Their neurochemistry will activate. Based on those words, their bodies will activate based on those words, all the brains in the room, your kids, your partner and your brain

Brad (38:01):
Heavy. Right? Huge. Okay. Catch, catch them being good. Number one, number two is reflective listening.

Wendy (38:08):
This is so important. I cannot believe how many people do not to practice. I call it emotional mirroring or reflective listening. It means that you, um, when your partner is bringing up something and again, they may have difficulty expressing tender things. So it may often come off said in a kind of angry voice, rather than you using your brain to be busy, thinking of a defense, want you to think of your brain as a translator and say, what are they really saying? And then feed back to them. Exactly what they said to you in different words. If you’re not good at translating yet, you can even feed back their same words back with different pronouns. So if they say, um, I get when you’re always parked in my spot and I come in and I can’t fit in the driveway. You could say, I can see it really makes you angry when I do that. Boom, they’re heard. And that deescalates the emotions in the minute. And then of course, it’s always nice if it’s followed up with I’m sorry, what can I do to repair?

Brad (39:18):
Right? If you can spit that out, that helps. Yep. Uh, okay. We’re we’re getting to the finish line. We have catch them being good. We have reflective listening and then we have number three is schedule everything, including everything says Dr. Wendy,

Wendy (39:32):
Including sex. Here’s what happens? You get busy in your life with your partner. You’re raising kids. You’re going to work. You’re paying mortgages, you’re running to the gym. You’re going to pick up the laundry or cooking dinners. And before you know it, you get on an automatic routine and you forget to schedule into that routine time for intimacy. I mean emotional intimacy and physical intimacy. You and your partner should have 20 minutes a day with no screens, no distractions to talk or

Brad (40:02):
What? 20 minutes. Oh my goodness.

Wendy (40:04):
It’s not a lot. And somebody’s ping me cuz I’m sorry. Is that ping? Showing up? Uh, cuz I can’t turn it off on my computer. Okay. Um, so that’s really important that you schedule sex for sure. Because for women in, for play can take three days, literally there’s some personal hygiene and grooming involved. We have to make sure the childcare is set up. The bedroom’s gotta be spotless. I mean, honestly you can’t relax if there’s a pile of laundry in the corner to fold truthfully. So you need to plan on Wednesday for Saturday night sex and you gotta set everything up for right. That is not unromantic because after the sex is over, I want you two to look in each other’s eyes and tell me that wasn’t romantic. Okay. Tell me now that you’ve got all those hormones happening.

Brad (40:49):
Oh it’s the, the dopamine, uh, starts to come in as soon as you schedule it. Cuz the anticipation is where the, the strongest influence of dopamine is as I love it. Uh, that was number three and then seemingly closely related is the digital detox.

Wendy (41:04):
Yeah. You really need time with no screens in your families. Um, the amount of people that have cell phones at the dinner table is shocking to me. Uh, one recent study showed that millennials, 10% of them said they’ve even checked text while having sex. Okay. Like if there’s one time you wanna be focused on the other person, that would be it. Right? So we really need to make time and make a digital structure. We call it digital hygiene and um, we all need to program or be programmed.

Brad (41:36):
Love it. That brings us back to number five, having fun and bringing novelty into the relationship.

Wendy (41:43):
Don’t forget to have fun. And sometimes you have to jump through some hoops to find it. For instance, uh, my boyfriend who’s actually on the east coast taking care of an elderly father right now came back for a weekend. Now we didn’t need to do anything because he hadn’t been here for a couple weeks. We could have just watched movies, Netflix and chill, hung out and be happy to spend time with each other. But he’s like, we need to do something novel. Cause I listened to Dr. Wendy Walsh, like what? And we found a jazz club. We got us. So socially distanced table, we had a great meal. We danced together and laughed together. And it was like, I, I, it was a whole new relationship just because, and yeah, we had to drive further than normal, spend a little more money than we planned on, but it was so worth it.

Brad (42:31):
Oh my gosh. What a fantastic way to wrap up the show. We’re so happy to connect with you again, Dr. Wendy Walsh doing her thing. Go follow her on TikTok. Of course. And where else should we, uh, connect with you?

Wendy (42:43):
I am building a wonderful community on Pato. I call it my Patreon love warriors. And for that, you simply go to Paton, P a T R E O N. Patreon do slash Dr. Wendy Walsh behind there. You’re gonna find my podcast mating matters. You’re gonna find all my books. You’re going to find private zoom rooms where I meet with people and talk about their relationship stuff. Um, also there’s a love science education program where I do actually university level lectures on the science of love. So, uh, you know, for as little $4 a month, come and join my book.

Brad (43:17):
Oh, I’m in, come on people as little as $4 a month. That’s a, that’s not even a Starbucks, the usual reference point.

Wendy (43:23):
Exactly.

Brad (43:25):
Thank you so much for taking time outta your busy schedule. I think those pings were like brain programming, so I would never forget those five tips. So I appreciate that in the show too. Everything’s great. When we connect with you, Wendy Walsh doing her thing. Thanks for listening to everybody.

Wendy (43:39):
Good to see you. Brad

Brad (43:41):
Do dun dun do thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support. Please. Email podcast, Brad ventures.com with feedback C suggestions and questions for the Q and a shows. Subscribe to our email list to Brad kerns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the Bera podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called overcast allows you to actually record a sound bite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember be rad.

 

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