Welcome back Dude Spellings!
As an authority on all matters related to diet, exercise, biohacking, and pursuing optimal health, Dude brings many valuable insights and expertise to the table during this show, along with the added benefit of being a fellow 50+ year old.
We discuss the importance of learning how to progress at a steady and comfortable pace and the many benefits that come from letting go of the ‘no pain, no gain’ mentality that has been drilled into us, and Dude reveals the methods he uses to create a home environment that sets him up for success. We also talk about how not everyone is able to fast in a productive way (and why), and Dude also reveals what made him become a true believer in micro workouts and their effectiveness.
We talk about how to prevent injuries and continue to progress at a steady and patient and comfortable pace for years and years, even as you advance into the higher age groups. [01:28]
Is it possible to overdo this micro workout concept to where it’s compromising your formal workout preparation or fitness goals? [06:55]
Dude did a single leg deadlift to heal the hamstring problem. [10:46]
Micro workouts are really effective. They have improved his golf driving distance. [13:22]
Unfortunately, we who are in the older age group, are enthusiastic for our exercise, and don’t feel the aches and pains until later. [16:17]
People that are starting to get back to training after not being involved, need to be careful about dropping right into a high intensity level training. [19:16]
Doing anything you can to avoid injury, it is going to pay off. [22:52]
By easing up on the weight that you want to lift, you are able to do them more frequently. [27:33]
How does a person figure out how many days or times to have a workout experience, assuming we have the freedom and flexibility to do whatever is optimal? [30:07]
Hiking is an extremely good way to stay in shape. [36:22]
The more fat you burn during your lifetime, the longer you’ll live. [39:05]
If you have a chest freezer, you need to keep it clean and sanitized. Here’s how. [40:21]
Dude did the epic achievement of doing the Rim to Rim to Rim of the Grand Canyon on very few calories because he thought it would improve his recovery. [43:58]
It’s a big breakthrough to get past the cultural traditions of eating when you are not really hungry. [55:56]
If you are doing something that’s highly glycolytic, it is intense. It is burning up a lot of sugar. [58:28]
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Hey listeners. It is my pleasure to welcome back to the show. Dude Spellings, the ordinary guy from Austin, Texas, who is deeply immersed into the ancestral lifestyle and quite an authority on all matters of eating and exercising and biohacking and pursuing optimal health longevity. We’re going to talk a lot about that since we are both in the 50 plus age group these days, uh, trying to stay strong, stay healthy. We’re going to talk about the, uh, his disparate goals of being strong in the gym and doing serious stuff like deadlifting, but also competing and pursuing extreme ultra endurance goals like his epic Grand Canyon Rim to Rim to Rim crossing, which he did virtually fasted for the entire 50 mile journey. And then fasting overnight afterward. You’re not going to believe the details of this story. I think was one of the great experiments and breakthroughs in performance and recovery that will have some long-lasting ramifications,.leave it to Dude to try to push the outer limits of what’s possible and explore some new ideas like fasting after a tough workout. Who knew?
Anyway, we’re going to talk about a variety of matters, especially his fondness for micro workouts and setting up his home environment to succeed. So you’re going to learn about his penchant for deadlifting, uh, because he will trip over this thing. Uh, when he’s trying to leave his office just to go to the bathroom and he’s taken the micro workout concept really deep with some really interesting insights. We talk about the, uh, correct and strategic application of fasting, uh, paired with workouts and how to get the most benefits there, how to avoid some of the, uh, potential drawbacks. And I think my favorite takeaway theme from the conversation is how to prevent injuries and continue to progress at a steady and patient and comfortable pace for years and years, even as you advance into the higher age groups. Yes, it is possible, but we have to do away with this, no pain, no gain mentality, where we push too hard due to cultural programming and the prevailing themes in the gym.
And instead just put in little drizzlers and tidbits of work like with Dude’s micro workouts and then just working within yourself, even when you’re doing some difficult and challenging workouts. So here we go with Dude Spellings, primal health coach, accomplished ultra endurance athlete, and fantastic speed golfer all in one. Austin, Texas, Dude Spellings back on the show. So nice to connect and, oh my gosh, we exchanged so many emails back and forth because you are the cutting edge human of the planet on a fitness health optimization, biohacking. Everything. If you’re watching on YouTube, Dude is rocking his very, very expensive blue light blocking glasses, and there’s always something new. Uh, you pan the camera to show me that you literally will trip over the hexagonal deadlift bar in order to get out of your office. So I’m guessing that that is facilitating a micro workout. Uh, so anyway, from Austin, Texas, how are things down there? And we’re going to talk about what’s new with you.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Uh, once again, I always enjoy being on your podcast. It’s a fun to talk about all the crazy stuff that I try to keep up with.
Uh, one of them especially is, uh, some of us are getting into the higher age groups now. Welcome to all listeners, including Dude who are now in the 50 plus. Uh, but we have this critical objective according to many voices. I love Robb Wolf’s one liner where he says, if you want to live longer, lift more weights and eat more protein. And he alluded to this, uh, idea that you could possibly simplify longevity and health span with the preservation of muscle mass as you age. And so maybe we start there with your thoughts about that, that concept, and then how we go about doing it without getting injured.
Well, I’ll, I, I tend to agree with him. Um, I would say for me personally, from a, like a practical standpoint, um, you know, preserving muscle, uh, as I age seems to be a lot easier than building new muscle. So, so I’m, I’m all for anything that keeps me from losing what I got. And I think that, uh, lifting definitely helps, you know, like every bodily process, right? If you don’t use it or don’t ask your body to perform, then you, you, those skills decline. And, um, that’s why I have the deadlift right here in my office. Um, every time I get up to go to the bathroom or whatever, I, I use it and, you know, the it’s really only because I don’t want to degenerate further. And so I figure if I’m asking my body to pick up 265 pounds, every time I leave that I’m going to preserve that strength.
And what does that look like over a seven day or a 30 day period? How many times are you reaching for that bar? And then my follow-up question would be, is it possible to overdo this, this micro workout concept to where it’s compromising your formal workout preparation or fitness goals?
A hundred percent. So a hundred percent, yes. To the last question. So, so this is my, my second iteration through this experiment. Um, the first iteration through was not 265, but 355,
Just randomly picking that up when you go to the bathroom.
So to answer your question about how often, um, it’s a bit, it comes out to probably eight or 10 reps a day.
Are you doing a single rep only as a rule? Uh, when you
Pretty much one only every once in a while I’ll throw into just to keep it random keeping, mix it up. Um, but, uh, but mostly, yeah, it’s just one and I was only doing one with 355 as well. And what I discovered, um, which we’ll get into the, the ramifications of this later I’m sure. Or, uh, but what I discovered is that I’m not able to do that, um, eight or 10 times a day, more than a few. I forget when my injury happened, but I, but the end result of it was that I hurt my hamstring and had to lay off of, off of doing that. And it was probably after doing it for maybe two weeks. So, and I, and I only do it during the workday, so it wasn’t doing weekends, but, you know, two, two weeks of five days on, um, doing 355, let’s say six to I’ve moved since then.
And in my old location, it was in the garage. So I had to do a little bit more effort to get to it. So I was only probably doing like six to eight. Uh, but yeah, it was too much, um, especially at the tender age of 51, uh, it was just a little bit too much for my body and, uh, strained the hamstring. Um, and I actually thought it was not very bad. And I had signed up for 30 K and went to go do the 30 K. And thank God that the format of the 30 K was three 10 K loops. And after 20 K I was like, man, I just, I, this hamstring’s hurting way too much. I need to, I need to stop and take care of myself. So I, I quit doing it. So I think, you know, there is a, a sweet spot and I think it’s really easy to overdo it on deadlift, especially if you’re in the older age brackets. Um, but I’ve been nursing myself back. I cut way back on the weight. The hamstring isn’t bothering me as much anymore. I can still feel it. Um, when I, like, if I, um, bend over and touch my toes, I still feel like there’s an extra stretch on the left side, which is the, the hamstring is hurt. Um, but I’m trying to work through that, doing some stretching and some single leg deadlift and stuff like that.
So single leg deadlift in, in an effort to heal the injury. Is that what you’re saying? I suppose, I suppose with very lightweight, just to engage the muscles.
Yeah. Super lightweight, like a 20 pound dumbbell, and then just focus on the, um, uh, the lengthening, you know, instead of the, instead of focusing on the, um, the pulling I’m focusing on going down and, and letting that weight sort of like, isn’t basically like a toe touch with a little bit, uh, extra weight to pull me down. So let me, it kind of helps feel that stretch a little more.
So back to the deadlift bar in the way, when you trying to go to the bathroom, and now it’s loaded at 265, which is well below your maximum. So we’re talking about a pretty, uh, moderate effort. Now 365, I assume, was closer to your maximum, but I think when you’re getting up that close, you probably need some warmup time. And so it’s probably not a great, um, opportunity for a micro workout to just step into it. Uh, but with, you know, let’s say for the average person listening, imagine loading up a deadlift bar with a hundred pounds, which is ridiculously light. If you can do 250 at your best, but if you’re doing that eight times a day, it seems to me that it’s just, it could be classified in the category of movement objectives, and just a wonderful way to take a break from a prolonged period of time at your desk. And also kind of scratch a little bit of that, uh, tick it off for fitness objectives. Because when you count 365 days later, you’ve lifted tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of additional pounds. It’s got to have a fitness adaptation as well, but you’re under that. You’re under that radar to the extent that you’re not tempting injury, fatigue, whatever.
Yeah. I mean, I, this whole train of thought with regard to training came about because when COVID started, I think we did a podcast on the micro workouts where I was just doing push-ups pull-ups and jump squats. And,
Uh, on the hour, correct.?
At this time it was the king, the king of COVID micro workout. And, um, boy, that was, yeah, that was spectacular. I think you’re, you’re going on during the workday, eight times out to do some body weight exercises.
Yeah. And I worked up to where I was doing, you know, like 150 pull-ups in the day and stuff like that. And, um, and ended up I maxed out on pull-ups and was able to do 23, which I have not been able to do 23 pull-ups since college probably. So that whole experiment really made me a believer on the micro workouts and, um, how effective they can be. Like, I, I really think that, um, in order to, uh, stimulate growth, you, especially if you’re starting at a, you know, like when you first start working out, everybody knows like for beginners, you make those gains like super quick. And if you’re, if that’s where you’re starting at, I, I don’t think you need to max out reps and weights and stuff. I think you can get gain. Yeah. Like very significant gains, just, you know, staying well within the range of safety and, you know, doing body weight stuff. And, you know, maybe 50% of your max, um, at 50% of the max reps, is it for me. It’s, it’s doing something. I can definitely tell in my driving distance that I’ve been since started doing these, these, uh, deadlifts. Huh?
He’s not talking about his commute, people. He’s talking about how this guy heads to a golf course and you’re playing with him, get ready for a scenic tour of places you have never seen before, because you’re going over the freaking trees and cutting, cutting corners on the course. Like I’ve never seen it. It’s, it’s stunning. And this guy, uh, not only being a great golfer, cause a lot of people can hit the ball far, but, uh, the power game is phenomenal. So obviously your, uh, your exercises are, are working well for, for the driving distance. So there’s wanting to clarify that, that statement there.
So, so I didn’t really notice this until the USA speed golf championships in Springfield last month. And, um, Nick, the guy that was doing all the filming, uh, came out to film me on a few holes and they happened to be some of the shorter par fives or fours. And he actually said that like my drivers were the longest that they’d seen all day. And since I’m slow, uh, with my hamstring injury, I was one of the last people and he he’s noticed that, you know, I was hitting it pretty pretty far. And that was really the first time I noticed the effect of doing, you know, eight to 10 submaximal deadlifts every day.
Well, I’m also reflecting a lot on this lately, uh, noticing the difference between being in the older age groups and feeling these aches and pains and minor injuries linger on for, for way too long. And also my extreme enthusiasm for things like high jumping and sprinting getting me into trouble because I’m so excited when I go out there. Uh, as we, as we know, if we put our brains to work, uh, when we’re out there with the stress hormones flowing through the bloodstream, the inflammation is occurring in the muscles, which is a desirable to allow us to perform, but you’re not really seeing, experiencing these twinges and aches and pains until 12 hours, 24 hours later. And so I put myself into a hole because I want to do a few more full length, high jump approaches to perfect my technique. And then there goes, um, the, the right calf the next morning, or the left hamstring or whatever.
And it occurs to me, especially the older age groups, but let’s look at the Olympic athletes as well. It seems as though a true elite athlete is performing well within their capability at every workout. Even if you look on YouTube and watch Gabby Thomas and Austin shredding the, the, the, the, the, the track and becoming the second fastest 200 meter runner of all time or third fastest, um, th the workouts are tough, but these athletes are so conditioned that they’re not collapsing on the side of the track or going home for a three hour nap and two jars of peanut butter. It’s just that day-to-day work. That’s that’s, uh, within their is how you, you know, become a, an Olympian level athlete or someone who’s, who’s doing it the right way, which all I want to do is avoid injury, but also, you know, perform really well. And maybe we need to rethink some of these notions about the, um, you know, the killer workout on Friday mornings at the CrossFit box that really puts you under the table as completely unnecessary and very risky.
Yeah. I mean, I think certainly for a lot of people, CrossFit workouts are well, especially if people are just coming off the couch, right? So like, if you’ve had a, uh, probably the typical 50 something scenario, right, is a guy who, or girl who, um, has spent the last 20 years raising their family, getting, uh, your kids off to college,.They’re very busy with all the kids’ activities and sports and this and that. And you really, you know, you don’t have a lot of time to focus on, um, your own fitness goals. And certainly don’t have time to put in a couple hours every day to, um, work on that. And so then now you’re an empty nester and you, you want to get back to enjoying some of the fitness activities that you, that you used to do. So you’ll sign up for CrossFit.
Well, if you haven’t been doing, uh, CrossFit style workouts, uh, for the last say 15 years, and you just jumped right into a regular CrossFit workout, that CrossFit workout is going to feel like that ballbuster maximal effort. Um, even, even though for the people who’ve been doing CrossFit for 10 years, five years, whatever, it’s not a maximal effort for them. It’s a, it’s a lot like Maffetone says like, okay, you go join a running your amateur runner. You go join a running group and you try to try to keep up with the front pack. That’s a losing strategy and the strategy to, to get hurt. So, you know, if you’re, if you’re in our age group and you’re getting back into it, you really, you can’t just, uh, jump right in at that high intensity level. You gotta, you gotta work up to the point where a normal CrossFit workout, isn’t a maximal workout for you. And that’s kinda what I’m trying to do with, um, adding the deadlift to my, my micro workouts is just kind of raise my bar on what is, uh, what, what is submaximal right? So then
All of a sudden, um, it went from, uh, you know, pretty tough to, uh, nothing because you’re, you’re, uh, you’re adapting. Yeah, love it.
Yeah. And, and so, so now at age 51, you know, instead of like when I was 31, I might’ve, um, approached weightlifting goal with like, okay, I’m starting my squat at, um, you know, right now my squat is 245 max, and I want to get a goal up to three 15, and I should be able to do that within eight weeks. Well, at age 51, that’s, it’s a lot slower. And kinda what I’m figuring out is like a really good way to, to, to move the needle and keep it safe is to do these submaximal workouts. So that, you know, right now I’m doing 255, uh, 10 times a day. I’ve been doing that for since I moved here in June. So I’ve been doing it for three months. Um, and I could probably now maybe even add 10 or 20 pounds and still keep it, you know, really submaximal. But you look at that over the course of several years, right. I could get to the point where I’m doing 355 and it, and not be injured and even be older than I am now say 55. But it’s, uh, it’s not an eight week progression. Like it was when I’m 31, it’s very slow gains to make sure that I, I avoid the injury, which, I mean, the injuries set me back.
I mean, this hamstring injury set me back at least six months trying to heal from it.
That’s the critical takeaway here is that, you know, you mess around, you get injured and it negates your progress to an extreme amount, such that doing anything you possibly can to avoid the injury is going to pay off more than, uh, pushing it a little in the name of, oh, I just want to break through and get on the podium in my next race. So I have to push myself harder. Uh, so I’m really appreciating that injury injury prevention would, you know, be number one on your fitness objective list. If you, if you were a sensible about it
And our age, I think, I mean, it is for me, no. Cause cause the injuries is take so much time out of, out of progress. Like you, they, they set you back. They don’t you’re you’re I mean,
Yeah. And it’s, I think, um, if you like extrapolate that into everything you do in daily life, and you have to help your neighbor move out this weekend and lift the couch and roll the refrigerator into place and all these things, um, your injury risk for doing everyday things is, is so dramatically increased unless you have that fitness base. So not only are you working out, uh, to, you know, prevent injuries while working out, but it’s also for the rest of your life, especially the example of falling, um, being the number one cause of injury and death in Americans over age 65. Consequences related to falling is the number one way that we, uh, see our demise. And so doing, doing everything you can in the fitness realm to skate through everyday life has also a beautiful goal.
Yeah, for sure. And you know, on that note of falling,, I’m sure, you know, most of the time, the way that the falls end up leading to either permanent debilitation or death is from a bone break. Right. And a lot of times the bone break, you know, it’s a compound thing, like a lot of stuff in, in biology, right? It’s like never one thing. So, you know, when you’re, well, um, this past February, Austin had crazy winter weather. It’s snowed here like a winter Wonderland and I’ve never, I’ve lived here. My whole life never seen anything like it. Um, and, uh, my girlfriend happened to be driving over my house just right at the time when all this was blowing in and I walked out to the street to greet her. And I stepped off of the curb onto the street.
And I mean, I slipped like, you know, uh, the comedy skit with the guy slipping on the banana peel. Just landed right on my butt and it hurt pretty good. Uh, you know, if I had been, maybe in my seventies, I could have broken something doing that. Um, but because my bone density is strong enough, uh, I, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t suffer any bone breaks, but the point is that, you know, it’s not just the fall, it’s also the strength of your bone density and your ligaments and your connective tissue and all the other stuff that, that gets traumatized in the fall and lifting heavy weights increases bone density as well. So, you know, there’s, it’s not just, I’m not just doing it to maintain strength and to increased strength and to, for my driving distance. Right. Um, I’m also doing it because I know that the, that, that is that the stress of picking up 265 pounds every day is strengthening my joints and my ligaments and my discs in my back and my grip even, and, you know, it’s, there’s exercise, doesn’t only make you stronger. Right. It, it, it makes you metabolically more, right?
Yeah. You’re improving, you’re improving your insulin sensitivity. You’re doing all kinds of things just by lugging that weight. Now you’re doing generally one rep and I’m sure you could do five, no problem, and nothing taxing. Uh, but tell us about that choice to make it such an easy thing. And I guess more repeatable throughout the day without a second thought.
Well, okay. So first I should add, um, I also do a, um, full workout three days a week at the gym. Right. And one of those days would be a deadlift day. And on that deadlift day, I do go much heavier. Um, I’m still, uh, you know, speaking of injuries setting you back, um, you know, I’m still not back to where I’m doing 365, but, uh, you know, I’m up over 300 when I’m, you know, it’s my primary, uh, you know, strength workout for the day. But I just picked up, you know, in terms of what weight I, how did I come up with, 265? Um, yeah, I just picked a weight that was challenging, but not, uh, but still easy. Right. So, you know, 265. I could, I, I bet I could do to failure. I bet I could do over 10, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe 15 or 20 even. And, um, that I just picked that weight because I knew it would be easy enough not to cause injury.
And sticking with one rep every time maybe to, as you said. Really nice and under the radar.
Yeah. And I, and I do, you know, you can, you can tell right, when you have that nagging injury, you know, the strained, hamstring, the strained calf, the strained bicep, whatever it is. Right? You can tell if you’re, if you’re an athlete that’s in tune with your body, you can tell when you have like a hormetic stress that just sort of stretches the muscle a little bit, gets it out of the resting comfort zone and flushes blood in there. Um, which might be, you know, to me, it feels like a little worse than a stretch, right? There’s a big difference between that sort of pain and a pain where you really have to like, um, you know, bite your lip to finish the rep, right? Like I’m not, I’m not going for that.
Love it, just keeping it, keeping it chill, keep an active. And then when you do step into the gym, you have all that going for you because you’re not coming in from two days of sitting in an airplane or doing absolutely nothing. And then trying to pull a bunch of weight, which I would think would increase your injury risk. Now you’re in there three days a week, working hard in the gym, um, lifting heavy weights. That’s a pretty big ambitious schedule. And I’m wondering if you thought about the optimal frequency and landed on three days or you going in there because you love the social experience and you might even be better off with two days or where do we, how do we navigate that? Assuming we have, you know, let’s say the freedom or the flexibility to do whatever is optimal. Um, how do we figure that one?
Well, so for me, uh, again, it’s like, I’m, I’m trying to not be injured. It is sort of my main goal. And so even, even in those workouts, I’m keeping it pretty below maximal effort. Um, and then very occasionally, like, I don’t know, maybe once every six weeks or something like that, I’ll go, you know, I’m feeling pretty good today. Uh, I’m going to throw an extra 20 pounds on my bench press and see how many reps I can do. Right. Um, and then I’m also writing down, uh, all the weights that I’m using and trying to, to go up by two and a half pounds or five pounds or whatever, every, you know, when I was, when I was in my twenties and thirties, I would, you know, if I didn’t go up two and a half pounds every week or two weeks, I think I was a big loser, you know?
Uh, but, but now I’m just like, you know, uh, if I can eke out an extra two and a half pounds and a month, six weeks, like I’m not, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m only here to, uh, like I said, at the beginning preserve my strength as I enter a second half of life, you know, I’m, I’m not trying to, uh, crush any age group records or, uh, you know, look cool in the gym, trying to lift more than the guy next to me or anything like that. I’m just, I’m just there to, to keep what I got, you know,
And interestingly for a long time, you’ve also been on the starting lines of these ultra events. You just talked about your 30 K where you hurt your hamstring. Uh, so that’s quite a, a blend of, I mean, you are mixing it in the gym with some, some serious strength trainers and putting in a lot of effort there and going long. So how do you navigate those seemingly disparate goals? And, and tell me about the relative importance of each in terms of, I mean, I know you enjoy it and, and all that, but I also know you’re pursuing longevity and optimal health.
Yeah. So, so the gym early kind of offers no social, um, outlet for me. You know, you’d asked about that a second ago. I don’t, I like to go to the gym and get my workout in and leave. I, I, if I’m in there half an hour, that’s plenty, plenty of time for me. Um, and I, and I don’t do a lot of, you know, I do, um, sets of five. I, you know, I’m not in there cranking out, you know, uh, 16 sets of eight or some crazy stuff like that. I’m, I’m just, I go in, I do five sets of five. I start off super super-duper light. Um, and then really my only, uh, set that’s even approaching maximal is the last set. Um, and then I get my, like for me, the running is where I get my social fix, you know, because running like lends itself to that, I think for me really easily, because you can, you can run in a group really easily.
Uh, if you find people that are doing MAF training or low heart rate training, you run at a rate that is easy to have a conversation and catch up with everybody and see how everybody’s doing. You know, if like me, you know, wanting to do longer distances, you know, if you go on a, a six mile training run with people, you know, that’s usually a solid 45 minutes to an hour of conversation, plus the cool-down and stretching and all that. So, um, for, for me, the running is a lot, these days is a lot more about the social part. And I do think that it does, uh, help with longevity in the fact that you are asking your body to, um, push through a lot of oxygen, right. And process that oxygen, get the mitochondria, working, shuttling the electrons through the, the mitochondria to, to accept the oxygen molecule at the end.
And, you know, if you don’t ever, I think if you don’t ever ask your body to perform like that, you get worse at it. Right. And then before, you know, it, you’re 78 years old and you get winded when you walk up the steps. Right?. I mean, and that’s, that’s kinda my goal these days is, you know, I just want to be able to keep doing the things I love to do. And, you know, the best way I know how to do that is to keep doing them and do them at a, at an intensity level. That’s not going to get me injured.
So, uh, assuming you love to do a 30 K, which is pretty, pretty extreme. I don’t know. Uh, that’s probably out of reach for most people unless they’re immersed in the endurance community. So where’s that kind of happy, uh, point where you can declare yourself aerobically, cardiovascularly competent. Can you get there by hiking and walking around town lake rather than, uh, hitting a pace or doing something that’s kind of in the performance realm?
Oh, I think so. I mean, man, I think hiking super underrated, especially if you’re going to carry a little weight in your pack, you know, if you’re going to, uh, if you’re going to go out for a, uh, let’s say a 12 mile day hike and spend all day out there and enjoy nature and carry you know, uh, maybe you’re going to carry a gallon of water and a pack and some food, you know, you’re going to, you’re going to have 15, 20 pounds in your pack. Um, hiking uphill is a, that’s no joke, man. Especially, uh, if you don’t do it every day. Where’s the sweet spot? I don’t know. Uh, I mean, everybody’s got their own individual goals and stuff. And I guess for me, like I still have that, that memory of participating in all the ultras and I kinda, I’m still sort of in that community.
So I don’t want to, uh, you know, I want to be able to show up at a 30 K and, and hang out and participate for a few more years. So, you know, for me, that’s, that’s sort of, um, where I’m at and I want to be able to, you know, if my friend’s playing another Rim to Rim to Rim, I want to be able to at least, um, uh, entertain the prospect of training for it. Um, so, you know, th those are some of my concerns. I would say if people don’t have such goals. You know, hiking and walking or are walking as super underrated, you know what I mean? There’s all kinds of studies that show that just even like a 15 minute walk after dinner, uh, regulates blood sugar, um, uh, people sleep better. Like there’s all kinds of, uh, benefits to even not, not just lowers blood sugar, but lowers A1C as well. If you do it regularly.
Uh, yeah, like on this topic that we noted that we wanted to discuss, uh, some of the things you wrote, uh, are pretty enticing. Dr. Ron Rosedale is claiming that the more fat you burn during your life, the longer you’ll live and that’s because, uh, you’re making fewer free radicals. Uh, the, the fat, um, can, can be burned with, uh, mitochondria protect the protective benefits of mitochondria versus if you’re a glucose burner and you’re winded when you get up a flight of stairs that, that sensation of being winded also implies that you’ve switched over to, um, you know, glucose burning and your, your conditioning is so poor that now you’ve turned into a, uh, a carbohydrate dependent human, uh, because you, you can’t even get through th th th the bare bones of daily living, getting out of the parking lot and, and entering the store without kicking into glucose burning. So the better you get at burning fat, and we know that there’s two channels here. One of them is through exercise, and one of them is through proper dietary choices, but it’s clear that we need both to excel rather than just eating cleanly and then getting winded, going up a flight of stairs.
Yeah. And so I think what Ron Rosedale was getting at when he says, you know, the, the more fat you burn during your lifetime, the longer you’ll live, is that how efficient is that electron chain transporting your mitochondria, right. If you’re, uh, within electrons, through there super fast, uh, you’re not going to be winded when you get to the top of the stairs. Um, and something, another thing that’s a little bit interesting. I didn’t, I haven’t mentioned this to you, so we’ll see, see how this goes, but I was walking, so I got my cold plunge, right. I got my chest freezer all set up and everything. And, um, you know, I had to do a bunch of research on how to keep it clean and sanitary and all this stuff. And, um, I realized, discovered one of the, so there’s a couple of different ways to keep it sanitized, right.
So, um, just for the listeners, clean versus sanitized clean would be like a filter that keeps out the dirt and stuff. Sanitized would be, uh, like, um, chlorine that keeps algae and stuff from growing in there, right. Bacteria and stuff. So there’s a couple of different ways to do the sanitation. Um, one is chlorine and, um, chlorine is toxic. And a lot of people say, you can absorb it through your skin. So I kind of wanted to, to search for other ways, right. I found this video of this guy, um, that uses ozone for sanitation in a cold plunge. And he explained it really well and really what he was, what it boils down to is that the reason that chlorine and the ozone both work is because they add extra electrons to the water, which disassembles it’s able to, um, I guess disassembles is the right word, but it’s basically the charge is strong enough that it disables the cell membrane on bacteria.
And he said, even can do to viruses. Now, to me, I instantly thought, wow, all these people that, um, you know, get are suffering from COVID, right. We, we, we know obesity is the number one risk factors as is metabolic disease, right? So people that have diabetes and prediabetes are very predisposed to, to suffer from COVID as, as are people that are obese. And that made me think of this concept that Ron Rosedale is talking about, where the more fat that you burn, the more electron that you’re, you’re shoveling through your body has a stronger charge. And maybe it’s that, that is protecting you from infections.
Well, we certainly know there’s more than just scratching the surface when we’re talking about how to be healthy, especially with the medical paradigm, which is focused on disease and the prevention or the wellness paradigm is kind of an independent concept. So Dude, spouting off about the independent concepts. I love it.
I mean, I’m not a doctor, but
Right. But it’s like, Hey, how do we get healthy? What about getting sun exposure? What about getting the proper light exposure, all that great stuff. Uh, but over to the, um, the, uh, the, the, the topic of diet and especially pairing, fasting calorie restriction, carbohydrate restriction with these ambitious exercise goals, such as you stated, you want to run long distances, you’re lifting heavy weights with the deadlift bar. Um, I’ll direct listeners to the last show where I believe we covered that incredible achievement of doing the Rim to Rim to Rim of the Grand Canyon crossing, which is 47. Tell me the stats, 47 miles, 49 miles, what 12,000 feet of elevation gain?
Uh, I think it’s like a thing it’s seven, 7,000 on the South Rim and 8,000 on the North Rim.
Uh, so an epic achievement that was completed, uh, with almost no calories. And then, uh, instead of feasting on pizza, like the, the rest of the party, uh, you went in your tent and slept, uh, with the, the notion that that would improve your recovery. So maybe just recap that, that personal human experiment at the very extreme of not only endurance performance, but testing the benefits of fasting. And then we can open up the discussion a little for, um, how to best pair these goals that we hear about all the time of fasting and autophagy with, Hey, man, I just did a workout and I got to replenish my fuel.
Yeah. So I guess I would start the conversation with a story that happened to me long before I met you in long before I got into to this sort of thinking. I was training for ultras. And I was, um, the, the epitome of the guy that you wrote about at the first paragraph of Primal Endurance,.the guy that’s 20 pounds overweight and starting running in the marathon. Um, and I went on this training run with this prove of pretty, pretty good ultra runners. One guy, uh, was 49 years old and won everything. He was a beast. Um, and we went on this training run and it was 35 mile training runs through the mountains in Oregon. And, um, you know, the, the group broke up into two groups, right? The fast group and the slow group. And, um, uh, this, um, fast group was already finished by the time we got finished. The slow group as we’re running in, we were, again, like you mentioned in Primal Endurance, we were just daydreaming about food, man. We’re like, Hey, there’s a pizza place on the way home, let’s stop there. I’m going to eat a whole pizza. And, you know, I ran 35 miles. I deserve it. Right. And we get back to the cars and this guy that went won everything, uh, his name was John Ticer. He’s sitting there eating a tiny little baggy of almonds and a tiny little baggie of dried apricots
After 35 miles
After 35 miles. And I, and I go up to him and I’m like, Hey, man,
Can I borrow an apricot?
No, no, I didn’t want it back then. Uh, I go, Hey, uh, where, uh, we’re going to go get pizza. You want to join us? And, and he goes, no, I got my apricots in my own hands. I’m good. And it blew me away. Abs I mean, I’m like, wow. But what I realized after, um, all the training, reading Primal Endurance, reading Maffetone, doing my own personal experimentation, so forth and experiencing myself, what I realized is that if you’re metabolically fit enough, that you can do these types of, um, runs, and you’re only burning body fat, you don’t get hungry and, you know, eating food does have metabolic side effects or, or, um, you know, consequences, right? Any food you eat makes, um, the free radicals, um, that it’s just a by-product of metabolism. You’re gonna make free radicals. And I had read a little bit about, um, people using fasting for recovery.
And I just thought, you know, you know, I, I already recognized I was at the point where John Ticer was at so many years earlier because I’d done training runs. I was doing training runs where I would, I would run 20 miles in the winter when it’s cool with no food and no water and get home. And, you know, as soon as I got home, my, my wife at the time was like, Hey, I need you to take my daughter to volleyball practice or whatever, you know, whatever. And, you know, just jump right in the car, run the errands, do whatever iI needed to do. And I started, I knew like my metabolism was fitting enough that if I could stay aerobic the whole time and not go anaerobic, that I could do the whole thing, just burning body fat. And, you know, if you’re just burning body fat, you don’t need it.
Now, the one thing I did realize though, is that probably what I would run out of was micronutrients. Right? Cause you are using other nutrients that aren’t calories. Right. I figured I haven’t need electrolytes, which I did. And I, I threw in some beef liver just because it covers all the bases. Right. And so, um, I got our buddies over at Ancestral Supplements to give me some beef liver. And I, I did the, the, the run with, uh, electrolytes and beef liver. Now I didn’t go anaerobic, uh, going up the North Rim, which was not a problem, um, at that time. But what it meant is that I depleted all my glycogen so that when I got to the South Rim running downhill, running back, turning around and running back down the hill, the north end, it was not a problem. I could stay aerobic there, but then once I needed to run up the South Rim, I, I realized I was going to need food. And that’s after 38 miles, I, I ate food. Um, but then when I got back, I just, you know, I, I wasn’t that hungry. And I just decided that I was going to put this, um, theory to the test and see if, uh, it would help recovery to do, uh, to finish off with the fast. And, and I, you know, I, I did, uh, it was 13 years between my running the rims. So it’s 13 years younger. The first time I did it and I was a lot more sore.
Of course I did that entire effort, like eating a gel every half hour and slamming, uh, I can’t remember what I ate when I got back from there, but I know I ate a bunch.
They have an ice cream shop, I believe on the South Rim. Cones of whatever whatever’s the site.
So I did eat whatever it was in sight, but the ice cream wasn’t open at like 10 o’clock at night when,
So the, the experiment was, uh, was inspired by the idea that if you continued to fast after the extreme effort where you burned almost, almost entirely fat, um, you’re laying in the tent and your processes of cell repair inflammation, immune function are all heightened because you’re in a fasted state. Um, of course you’re going to have to eat at some point, but at the same like that, that’s why I thought it was such a breakthrough experiment was like, this is the time when we really, really need to recover and control inflammation and control free radical production. Because of course you’ve made a bunch of free radicals trudging up the, the canyon wall. Uh, but we don’t need more with the pizza and the ice cream.
Right. Yeah. And, you know, I didn’t really, I guess I didn’t really appreciate what I was attempting. Um, it just sounded like something cool to do. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would highly recommend it. And in terms of, of, uh, you know, how, like what that, what that might mean for people who aren’t doing a rim to rim, to rim, you know, I would, I would just, I mean, even, even something like an infection, you know, if you are, and, and let’s, let’s also not forget, you know, not everybody really is able to fast in this productive way. Right. You, you have to be a good fat burner to begin with. Right. So, um, if you’re not a good fat burner, like the first step is being able to, uh, you know, not rely on carbohydrate all the time. Right. And so, you know, I would say if you get food cravings a lot, if you, uh, can’t go a couple hours without eating, uh, if you get hangry, like these are all symptoms of people who are predominantly relying on carbohydrate. If you can’t do those things, tackle that first and, you know, clean up your diet, switch to more of a paleo primal diet, um, figure out how to become a better fat burner.
Once you’re there, fasting is not that difficult. You don’t get the hunger pains, you don’t get the cravings, you don’t get hangry. And, um, yeah, you have to deal with the mental part where you’re, but even then it’s really just more or less like, so societal conditioning, right. Because you’re, you’re going okay. Well, it’s been, you know, I haven’t eaten since 8:00 PM last night, and now it’s, um, 7:28. I, man, I’m hungry. And, uh, it’s really, it’s, you know, if you really stopped and analyze, are you hungry for me when I do, when I fast for 24 to 36 hours, which is about all I do these days, uh, you know, if I really asked that question, I’m not hungry. Right. I’m just, I would like to enjoy food. I would like to sit down in front of the TV and, and, uh, here in Texas, uh, enjoy a big plate of barbecue. Right. But, um, but for me, knowing that I’m getting those benefits, knowing that I’m, uh, inducing autophagy and a pop ptosis and, and cleaning up some of the, um, lesser functioning cells and tissues, you know, to me, that’s a, it’s a small price. It’s not to be able to, uh, sit down every single night in front of the TV and load up on whatever your favorite food is.
I mean, it’s a big breakthrough to get past the, the cultural traditions and the, the weakness and the proclivities of the brain and our dopamine reward pathways and how we’re always accustomed to looking at the dessert tray when it comes over, even though we’re full, but, oh boy, that does look like a nice homemade cheesecake, I guess I’ll have one. And, uh, we’re just kind of headed down that path that’s driven a lot by, uh, marketing forces and all that crazy stuff that’s turned us into the fattest sickest population in the history of humanity. So it’s kind of cool to hear the story and if you’re listening, going, wow, that guy’s crazy. Um, let’s reflect on it a little further. Cause when you go out there and push your limits, I’m also gonna say that whatever that insuing meal that you had, you probably had a deeper appreciation, unlike any human could compare to, uh, when you, when you did have breakfast the next morning.
Oh yeah. But you know, you know what you would think that, you know, after an additional, let’s say 12 hours of fasting after finishing that run, that I would wake up and just want to eat all the food in the cafe. Right. Uh, but that wasn’t the case. You know, because if you’re, if you’re a really efficient fat burner and you’ve been burning body fat, um, and, and you have a good night’s sleep and you’re, um, you remember from the fast, faster study, uh, when those guys came in the next day, the fat adapted group was actually had better glycogen replacement than the carbon adapted group. So, you know, after a good night’s sleep, you wake up, you’re not ravenous, you’re not hungry. Right. Your body, your gluconeogenesis, your body’s taking care of restoring the, um, the, the glycogen. Um, but yeah, when I woke up, I, I, it was more of the feeling that it was a reward, then it was necessity.
Necessity. Yeah. And guess what, if you wake up and you are ravenous from making a lengthy fasting attempt and pairing a workout, uh, then you’ve hit your limit and it’s time to go eat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Don’t ignore, uh, the hunger pains. Like, you know, if you’re, if you’re your goal is 36 hours and you only make it to 30 it’s okay. Yeah. It’s okay, man.
It it’s like talking to the ultra runners and they dropped out of Western state at mile 78 and they’re so disappointed and distressed about it. I’m like you ran 78 miles. That’s incredible. Well, I guess it is, it’s kind of far, you know, but it’s like, come on and put the proper perspective here. Uh, before we go, I just want to finish this, this thread up with, uh, the question of, instead of the extreme endurance performance, if you’re doing something that’s highly glycolytic, so it’s intense, it’s burning up a lot of sugar. Glycogens coming out of the muscle storage. You’re burning it up in an hour long race or extreme CrossFit workout. Um, where would fasting fit in after a workout like that? Would there be different decision-making parameters?
You know, so for me, the CrossFit workouts, I feel are pretty glycolytic right. I mean, you know, if you’re, if you’re doing a, uh, a workout where you’re, you know, doing a 400 meter sprint followed by, uh, a set of squats followed by, uh, as many pull-ups as you can do. And you’re doing that, you know, in four rounds of that, right. That my heart rates pegged when I’m doing that. And I pretty much exclusively do that in a fasted state. Like I don’t eat before I go to the CrossFit workout. Now in terms of what I eat afterwards, you know, my, um, my routine is I come home and I have a Bulletproof coffee. You know, it’s not, it’s a, it’s a fair amount of calories, but it’s not a, I wouldn’t say it’s a meal, you know? Um, and then, and then if I feel, um, you know, depleted from the workout, I, um, I’ll, I will, um, indulge at lunch and maybe, maybe get an extra quarter pound of brisket.
Yeah. From that place. What’s the famous place that we had to call an order in advance down there in downtown Austin?
Franklin’s Yeah, absolutely incredible. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I can’t do that daily, man. That’s that’s, that’s too much work,
Dude Spellings. Great stuff. Thanks for covering so many topics. I think it was really, uh, a lot of take home advice and things that we can test out and try out maybe with a little bit less weight on the bar, but, uh, if you put something in your way that you’re going to trip over, I think you’re going to help get your micro workout game up to the highest level. Uh, I know you have some occasional programs going on that you can help people remotely. So maybe just tell us how to connect with you and, uh, where to take the next step if we’re interested.
Yeah. I, I offer a, um, 12 week, um, online health and wellness class, um, at Primal Reboot Camp.com. Uh, you can also email me Spellings at Gmail. Um, I’m on Facebook and Instagram Dude Spellings. So any questions? It’s fire away. Bring it on.
Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, Dude. Spellings in Austin, Texas, Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email email@example.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows, subscribe to email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the B.rad Podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.rad.