I catch up with the biohacking king of the universe Ben Greenfield on the wondrous occasion of the release of his incredible new book called Boundless. This is a 670-page monstrosity that covers all aspects of healthy living, peak performance, and how to attain the ultimate goal of healthspan – living a long, happy, productive life.

But don’t be intimidated by its length and the wide variety of subjects covered – have fun with it! Take advantage of the variety in the different sections, flip through the book, and start reading whatever title piques your interest the most. “Hidden Variables That Make or Break Your Mind, Body, and Spirit,” and “How To Burn Fat Fast Without Destroying Your Body,” and “Maximize Your Symmetry and Beauty” are just a few examples of the wide-ranging and fun topics Ben covers in the book.

At the time of this recording, the main subject on everyone’s mind was the quarantine, so we talk a little about how Ben is making the most of this time at home. He’s pretty used to it, since he was homeschooled from kindergarten through 12th grade, and he shares the reason why his children elected to opt out of traditional school and start homeschooling, or “unschooling” as he calls it. Unschooling is a simple concept: pay attention to a child’s interests and passions, and then surround them with as many life-based experiences as possible to allow them to pursue those passions. Ben is adamant about not pushing his kids to go to college, but he still is preparing them for any and all options through a fun but rigorous at home curriculum. His intention is for them to really experience the things they are interested in, and if college is one of those things, then they’ll be prepared for all the standardized tests and applications too…basically, Ben’s kids are hardcore training, unschool style!

Speaking of hardcore training, Ben shares how Boundless came about: “About three years ago, I started to pivot from a real focus on performance and focus on anti-aging and lifespan.” Of course exercise is important and key to longevity, but we know by now that overdoing it will never do you any favors. Pushing your body is just that – pushing – and hitting the pause button frequently enough in your life is integral to a long and healthy life. So Ben recommends you don’t focus too much on killing it every single day when it comes to your workouts. He’s a big fan of a simple but vigorously paced walk, as walking at a pace that gets your heart rate up is one of the easiest workouts you can do, and one that won’t put too much stress on your body. Ben also describes a few other easy exercises you can do for longevity, and we get into a discussion about the limitations in aging.

Ben then shares some of his thoughts on vegetables (eat them) and I bring up a podcast he did with previous guest Dr. Saladino. Ben also brings up an interesting point: “You can disable every plant defense mechanism through fermenting, soaking, sprouting, and other ancestral preparation tactics.” He also points out that plant foods in older cultures were not just considered cultural staples but medicinal staples as well – things that could provide some amount of antioxidant protection or something like digestive enzyme support.

Along with relaxing the breaks on intense exercise, Ben has also been more relaxed about his diet. He’s a fan of consuming, “a wide variety of foods, preparing them properly, and also paying attention to the enjoyment derived from gathering this wide variety of food as well.” I bring up Dr. Bruce Lipton’s work and Ben agrees that since your perspective has a powerful effect on your body, it’s incredibly important to not use up “excess time” with activities that are ultimately, not worth it. Ben asks: “What good is it to live until you’re 100 if 30 years of that life is spent in hyperbaric oxygen chambers and with laser lights in your office, taking all sorts of supplements? All this time spent trying to live a long time is time spent away from the family. At a certain point, you have to make sure you’re using your time responsibly.”

Enjoy this (walking) podcast episode with Ben Greenfield and be sure to check out his book, Boundless.

TIMESTAMPS:

Boundless is Ben’s new book with many interesting chapters such as dig deeper about sleep, how to fix jet lag, and how to burn fat fast without destroying your body, and many more. [04:34]

Social ties to the community are very important. This experience of staying home has been a drastic change. [09:09]

Things may change for the better. [14:30]

Brad and Ben discuss the need to restructure the educational process. [16:58]

Kids are individuals. They have different interests to which their education should be directed. [18:58]

It’s still important to satisfy the core curriculum, however.  [23:46]

There are five core skills you should be attaining: reading well, expressing thoughts in writing, persuasion, math and arithmetic, and finally logic.  [27:01]

Ben’s book was originally looking at anti-aging and has evolved into a worldwide study of how people are living a healthy life. [30:06]

Is there a tradeoff between maximizing your health span and trying to perform great things in athletics and other aspects of life? [36:37]

Walking is always one of the best life-enriching exercises. Ben talks about other important exercises for longevity. [40:06]

Be aware and learn about what exercises are beneficial but don’t overdo. [45:35]

It’s good to have goals for maintaining fitness. [48:10]

What are the limitations of aging? Are there concessions we make? [49:51]

The carnivore diet is okay, but we still need vegetables, according to Ben.  [52:32]

What is a special Greenfield family dinner like? [57:46]

It feels really good to eat healthy rather than putting junk into your body. [59:09]

Seeking a balance of all this information takes a lot of work. You can think yourself into sickness. [01:00:03]

LINKS:

• Brad’s Shopping
• Boundless
• Kion
• Range
• Sirtuins
• Tabata Set for Bicycle
• Boundless Book.com
• Ben Greenfield Fitness

LISTEN:

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad (00:00:08):
Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high-stress, modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balance that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad (00:04:34):
Introducing the one and only Ben Greenfield. I love connecting with this guy…that everywhere, all the time. content king of biohacking superstar. And we connect on the occasion of the release of his wonderful new book called Boundless. It’s a 670 page masterpiece on all aspects of healthy living with particular attention to the ultimate lifestyle goal of health span, longevity and Oh my gosh, it’s such a fun book to jump in and pick and choose topics of your interests so you don’t have to be intimidated about reading the whole thing. There’s also outtakes and additional content on boundless book.com but whoever you are, whatever your interest in health and living, you will not be disappointed by this magnificent beast of a book. Dig some of these compelling subtitles that’ll entice you to check in:

Brad (00:05:36):
Dig deeper about sleep; how to fix jet lag nap like a champ,; and track sleep cycles. How to burn fat fast without destroying your body. How to build functional muscle from ice. Science gear and tools for building the perfect human,;how to banish stress and kick high cortisol goodbye; maximize your symmetry, beauty, a whole chapter on sex, a whole chapter on hidden variables that make or break your mind, body and spirit. It’s a compilation of the science, the deep physical commentary, physiology, the spirituality, the mindset. And we get a little bit into it on this podcast, but Ben has put out so much incredible content that it was really nice to just engage at a different level. So over the course of this conversation we talk about disparate topics that you might not get on a biohacking oriented podcast. So, uh, foremost the topic on everyone’s mind at the time of the recording was the quarantine, the staying at home, how life has changed.

Brad (00:06:42):
Uh, Ben talks about his homeschool experience of his own and then with his own kids who are now around fifth grade age. And they went to a formal school for a bit and then they made the decision as a family to engage this no schooling template where they go and explore their areas of interests and passions. And Ben gives some amazing examples of what his kids are doing on a routine day at home. And then a more commentary on the state of the educational system in industrialized society. And it’ll really get you thinking and reflecting. Uh, Ben gives out the five core skills. This is from another author, but the prominent skills that we all should attain in order to be lifelong learners. So that’s a great list there that you’ll get and will be very memorable. And then we talk about, uh, the great pivot of great interest to me, the pivot away from an obsession with peak athletic performance to the broader goal of anti-aging longevity.

Brad (00:07:44):
And Ben talks about some of his content in the book, the eight or nine parameters that he gives to help promote longevity, delay the inevitable aging process and has been does like nobody else. He covers the entire gamut from the latest greatest high tech supplements and gadgets into the, uh, esoteric, the spiritual side of the importance of connecting with your community and walking in nature and toning down these extreme workouts and just kinda hitting these more reasonable check boxes for things that you do that are good for your body. A wonderful show. He talks a little bit about the carnivore movement and trying to take the lens zoom out a little bit and talk about some of the big picture objectives for healthy eating, the world famous Greenfield family dinner. Love this guy style. I think you’re going to enjoy this walking podcast with the man always on the move. Ben Greenfield, check out boundless book.com for more details on his great new book.

Brad (00:08:46):
Well, let’s get right into it, man. What’s, what’s some of your reflections about that? Cause I remember last, uh, I think it was last summer when you were, uh, having that epiphany that you film for Instagram, that you’re, you know, you’re not even connected to your own community, but you’re traveling around the world being the, uh, you know, connecting on that level and now everything’s changed.

Ben (00:09:09):
Well, look, I mean, we know that that social ties and community, it’s, it’s very, very important. You know, that those flesh and blood relationships and not only having a neighborhood or a community in which you’re helping people and people are helping you and you’re looking people in the eye and touching people and having dinner parties and you know, and, and, and helping your neighbors moves and, you know, and, and being involved with supporting local restaurants and the local community and having a place where your children can have friends and even having a local inviro biome that that really corresponds well to you. And being able to, you know, eat foods that are local and seasonal. You know, there’s, there’s so many benefits to being connected, uh, to your community and there’s a lot of dark sides to so-called hyper mobility. You know, disruption of circadian rhythm and, you know, loss of, of negative ions when we’re disconnected from the planet earth, that aspects of electric chemical balance of ourselves, um, you know, the exposure to a lot of evolutionary mismatches that you might be able to control in your own environment, right?

Ben (00:10:22):
Like whether it be, uh, you know, Wi-Fi or, or modern led fluorescent lighting or the quality of the water that you drink, et cetera, that, you know, kind of fly out the window if you’re living out of hotel rooms. You know, there’s, uh, there’s some many benefits to the living most of your life. Kind of rooted in a community with, you know, let’s say brief, brief bouts of travel, right? Like maybe, uh, an annual trip to Hawaii or something like that. And so, uh, so for me to press pause on, you know, a lot of the speaking, a lot of the conferences, you know, a lot of the stuff that I’ve been doing for the past several years and before that, you know, it was, it was, you know, something you’re very familiar with packing a bike onto an airplane to go race, you know, 20 times a year.

Ben (00:11:10):
You know, and I’ve, I’ve, that’s my, that’s my life for like 20 years, you know, uh, on an airplane, typically anywhere from five to 10 times a month, you know, gone every week, pack, unpack, disconnect, come back, try and fix all the damage, get my circadian rhythm realigned and then head out again, right about when I’m pulling them all fixed up. And, and so being on the home front, you know, from a, from a health standpoint and also a family conductivity standpoint and a, and a stress standpoint has been amazing. The ironic thing is that, um, you know, despite being at home and not traveling, I’m not connected to my local community because we can’t go out, okay. Can’t go to church and, and can’t go to restaurants and, you know, none of the farmer’s markets are up. And so, yeah. So it’s kind of weird in that, you know, there’s a lot of wonderful times spent with the family and a lot of, a lot of wonderful health implications and, and you know, sleep is fantastic, you know, everything’s wonderful except, you know, I’m, I’m still missing that one component of being home, that that I think would be one of the better components of being stuck at home, which is just being able to, you know, have people over more often for dinner parties and, you know, go to restaurants in the local community and go to farmer’s markets and, and go bring stuff out to the homeless. I mean, you know, just, you know, we just can’t do some of that stuff right now. So, you know, so it’s kind of weird. It’s kind of like a half-assed scenario of being at home in the community. You know?

Brad (00:12:41):
Yeah. I’m trying to look at the positive side of this, uh, this pause button on, on the globe. And it seems to me that it’s so easy to get locked into patterns and become familiar with a certain mode like you described of getting on another plane and packing up the bike and going, going to the next race and constantly being, you know, hyperstimulated with new environments, new cities, and it’s exciting and fun and it keeps you, keeps you engaged, and then you get used to that mode to the extent that you, you know, forget the value of that simple community life and that, that home-based, uh, experience that we’re now forced to, uh, get thrust into. And maybe we can kind of get used to this and in a certain way where it lingers in, in the, in the, uh, in the main focus rather than being an afterthought.

Ben (00:13:34):
Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people are gonna realize, you know, whether it’s shifts in the way that we educate our children, you know, taking advantage of some of the beauties of social media and technology and the internet. You know, being able to, to learn from the comfort of our own homes. I think that that education might be somewhat disrupted by this scenario. You know, what we might see the homeschooling percentage of American, you know, go from whatever it’s at right now. I think, I want to say it’s somewhere between like, uh, gosh, I think it’s below 10%. You know, I would expect it to be to significantly rise as parents realize, Holy cow, kids can learn from home and they’re almost like happier doing it. Um, I think it’s going to change the way that we meet, right? We know that, uh, that’s zoom stock has, has absolutely soared because so many companies are, you know, meeting virtually and, and again, you don’t get that same type of, you know, fight like at, like for my company at Kion, right?

Ben (00:14:30):
Like everybody meets for meditation, sitting every morning, cross legged on the floor at the offices and they’re joking and you know, and having lunches together in the, in the lunch room and, you know, and so a lot of that is not happening. Um, but at the same time, you know, there’s a lot of employees being just as productive, working from home as they, as they would be at the office. And, you know, when we look at conferences, right, I’ve already taken part in, in two conferences where I’ve spoken, but I haven’t gotten on a plane. You know, I was pretty much just like in my underwear at home. Um, you know, popped up to see my kids after I gave my talk. You know, what, I have lunch with them. And, you know, I think, I think people realize that, you know, despite there being some disconnectedness from a flesh and blood standpoint with working remotely or being educated remotely, I do think that that we’ll see a little bit of a disruption in terms of, of how much we might feel pressured to commute to work or to fly across the country or across the pond for a conference or, um, you know, or, or, or make it to the school bus every morning at 7:45 AM, you know, I, I think some of that stuff will change, uh, ultimately, uh, for the better.

Brad (00:15:49):
Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean I’ve been sort of in this mode for many, many years where I have a blend of uh, you know, home-based work, self-starter, self directed and then going off and communing with a larger organization that’s more structured and you know, the bouncing back and forth. I think there’s a, it’s all a matter of, of striking that important balance. But you know, some of these institutions like school with the bells ringing and all that crazy stuff, yeah, they’re going to have to start thinking twice about that because there’s so much wasted energy and wasted productivity just from, you know, toeing the line and punching the clock or what have you. I know there’s the school, uh, the schools have been, um, LakeTahoe, uh, did some calculations cause they were, you know, playing sports against, uh, schools that were far away and taking the bus and wasting the whole Friday anyway when there was a football game and they decided to go to a four day school week. And you don’t even lose that much time because when you talk about the nutrition and the lunch break and the commuting time on the, on the school bus, um, you just add like another hour and a half to the school day and then you got a three day weekend. Pretty simple.

Ben (00:16:58):
Yeah. Not to mention that the, that the, you know, in a classroom the pace of learning is generally the, the pace of, you know, the entire rest of the class versus the pace of the individual child. The subjects that are being learned don’t necessarily fall into the, you know, the passion or the skill set of the child who’s learning, you know, the set curriculum it’s been developed. And you know, if you read a book like Free to Play or Unschooling to University, it’s typically around age 13 where the joys of all the social aspects and perhaps some of the sports and recess aspects and some of those, some of those fun or aspects of school began to be overridden by tests, by quizzes, by homework, by learning matter that ,in no way, is of interest to the child or make sense to them. And so, you know, that that’s, that was one of the reasons that, you know, in, in fifth grade I gave my kids the option to stop going to school and to start more of a scenario of just life based education.

Ben (00:17:57):
You know, whether it be, you know, cooking at home with mom and dad or you know, having a jujitsu instructor come to the house or building a tree fort or, you know, ever, you know, they’re there, they’re at home right now, make, you know, they’re out in the driveway literally right now making a stop motion videos with, you know, some computer program they have and a phone and a bunch of clay and you know, they’re making a movie, you know. And then tonight they’re, they’re making sushi, right, there. They have this whole sushi recipe planned out and they’re making all these hand rolls and everything. And then they’re going to watch Jiro dreams of sushi and learn for a documentary. A little bit about like hard work and legacy and food and, and you know, and I think that type of educational scenario for a child is just amazing versus having to, you know, hop on a bus and go to school every day and learn a set curriculum.

Brad (00:18:45):
Right? No, you, you were homeschooled all the way through and then your children, did they go to school initially and then when they were just recently, you gave them a choice? Is that how this role,

Ben (00:18:58):
Well, I was homeschooled, yeah. K through 12. Um, in a more traditional homeschooling environment, you know, homeschooling traditionally is, you know, you got a bunch of kitchen or you know, books and you’re sitting around the kitchen table with mom or dad. Sometimes, you know, you’re reading or during your math, your junior English doing your writing, you’re doing, you know, your, your, your, your art and social studies and, and everything else. You’re just kind of replicating largely what you’d see in a, in a public school or private school from home. Um, and, and that’s, that was kinda my homeschooling scenario. And, you know, I had a few tutors here and there. I have like a calculus tutor and I had a violin teacher. You know, there’s, there’s always third parties to come in to help educate aside from mom and dad. And then we are part of a homeschooling co-op.

Ben (00:19:39):
So, you know, we have like our own basketball team and we had like a chess club and we had, you know, we had different, um, you know, social events every week, whether it be swimming or, um, you know, library time or you know, field trips out to the local apple farm or whatever. And, um, you know, w with what I’m doing with my kids is, uh, we, we homeschooled in the first couple of years kind of using that type of model, like a set curricula, you know, gather around the table with mom and dad and, and we, you know, my wife, Jess and I both realized that, you know, it, it really wasn’t our calling to be sitting there for four to six hours with the kids at the kitchen table every morning. Like I could work. And she hasn’t really had the heart of a teacher, you know, she, she, she never liked school, you know, and my wife’s actually dyslexic and so she’s not going to be teaching reading and writing or correcting essays or anything like that.

Ben (00:20:31):
And you know, she’s wonderful at teaching, you know, art and, and cooking and gardening and animal husbandry and, you know, she grew up as a rancher girl. And so, you know, those are the things that she loves to teach and the boys still do with her. And then for me, you know, again, with, with the nature of my travel schedule up to late and you know, the fact that there are, there are certain things that I feel called to do and certain things I don’t feel called to do. Um, you know, we, we decided we find a really good private school and so in second grade our kids started private school. And then, you know, I just kind of observed from behind the scenes for about, uh, four years, you know, and, and, and, you know, continue to read and study educational models and realized they were, you know, going into fifth grade that, uh, I wasn’t doing them the best service even though they were going to a really good private school there.

Ben (00:21:20):
We’re still experiencing a lot of those, those same issues, you know, tests, homework, quizzes that in no way related to their passions or their interests, learning, you know, the same pace as the rest of the classroom. Having to the bus every morning, disrupting the circadian rhythm. Um, and, and really when they got home from school, not having the time to really delve into the things that they were truly passionate about because they’re so overloaded with tests and homework. And so I, uh, I told them, look, you guys don’t have to go back to sixth grade if you don’t want to all, I’ll create a supportive structure for heat for you here at home. And a, we can unschool meaning that if you want to learn math, you know, go out and build a tree fort, learn geometry, learn angles or in woodworking, you know, counts as art and architecture a little bit cause you’re designing and you’re using Google SketchUp and, and uh, um, or, or you want to, you know, from a social studies or language standpoint, you know, study Japanese cuisine for three months and learn some Japanese phrases and learn how to work with sushi and learn some Japanese art and learn some plating techniques and learn some chemistry in the kitchen.

Ben (00:22:25):
And so that, that’s more of what unschooling is, you know, where as homeschooling is a little bit more of a set curriculum, more organized. Unschooling is simply paying attention to what a child’s interests and passions are and then surrounding them with as many life based experiences as possible that allow them to pursue those passions. And so that’s a, that’s what we do with the kids now.

Brad (00:22:49):
Oh my gosh, it sounds wonderful. I think there’s a lot of parents out there that maybe don’t quite have the guts to go for it because it seems like such an extreme departure from what we’ve been socialized to think as important. And now in the age of the, uh, the helicopter parent and the, the college bribing, you can see that your parents are so worked up about whether their kid’s going gonna fall behind one inch if they don’t get the, uh, extreme tutoring or the, the most advanced sporting experience. But hopefully with some of this stuff blowing up and everyone’s face, we can start to think a little more creatively and perhaps taking this, uh, taking this theme all the way up into adult life where, you know, the kid’s not obligated to jump into some, you know, fixed career track, but they can do exploration all the way up to, uh, Ben Greenfield’s age. How old are you man? I’m,

Ben (00:23:46):
I’m 38. And look there, there are some practical considerations here, right? Like, um, you know, there, there are still state requirements that, you know, like Washington state where we live, there are 12 core curriculum, math, social studies, reading, writing, et cetera, that our children must demonstrate proficiency in every year, either via standardized tests or via assessment forms that mom and I submit to the state so that our kids aren’t labeled as, you know, a little little truants. And, um, you know, and every, every state has certain core curricula that you must demonstrate. And I think, I think it’s prudent that you do cause it, cause you know, you could just see like my kids, if they’re super interested in art, just like becoming little savant and art all day long, but you know, when they’re 18, maybe feeling a little bad that dad didn’t fill them in, that they might need some math skills.

Ben (00:24:38):
Right. And, and so, you know, they’re there, there is something to be said for ensuring that they satisfy a core curriculum. But like I said, you know, like whatever, um, you know, building a tree fort can be math, social studies, art, architecture, you know, and, and, and th there, there’s, there’s a lot that you can kind of creatively categorize life based experiences into when it comes to those core curricula. And then also, you know, I, I don’t necessarily completely decry higher education. I think some type of standardized higher education is something that’s beneficial to society to demonstrate, for example, that, that a physician who might be operating on a heart didn’t just go to iTunes university to learn that, but, but actually has a diploma and satisfied a core curriculum standardized by a medical certifying body before they actually do something that could harm someone.

Ben (00:25:30):
Or the same could be said of someone might be, you know, flying a spaceship over planet earth to the moon. Uh, you know, so if you to be an astronaut or a doctor or an engineer, you know, there, there are certain careers that I think do benefit from a higher education model. And so even with that, you know, I’m making sure that, that I’m jumping through the hoops in terms of making sure my kids are prepared to take a standardized test assessment score prior to college. And if they want to go to college, they can. But again, I, I feel about the same way about college as I, as I do about lower education. And if the argument is to be made that that’s where a child is going to learn how to socialize, that’s where they’re going to learn whatever sexual interactions with the opposite sex.

Ben (00:26:11):
That’s where they’re going to kind of like get their chops so to speak. I get their feet wet out in the world without mom and dad. Like I told my kids, if that’s, you know, I’ve said this, then that’s what you want out of college. Just to, you know, just to go and see what it’s like to socialize for four years and be with your peers and I’ll, I’ll buy you guys around the world plane ticket. You can go to Amsterdam, you can go to Thailand and go drink your ass off on the beach. You know, you know, but, but I’d rather just like be very straight up with them and not try to not, not try to mask that, uh, in, you know, with the deception that that is because they’re going off to get an education, right? So if they want to go experience the world and get their chops that way, I’ll buy him around the world plane ticket with all that college tuition money and they can just go, go check out what the world’s all about for a year.

Brad (00:27:01):
Well, I think those are, uh, the, some of the main attributes of the college experience is that social connection. And now when you’re looking at the, the pricing and the debt that that is incurred, um, it, it could be appearing as a rip off, especially when you have that, you know, a potential to self-learn when you’re, uh, on the internet and opening up your laptop lid. And, and especially when you have a passionate about something. I mean, I’m, I’m seeing this in my own life. Like if I’m passionate about something, I can learn really well and progress really quickly. And if I’m not, I’m going to get unfocused and, and discouraged and negative. And boy, we’re forcing a lot of kids through a system that’s really not appropriate for them, especially when there’s already enough heart surgeons and a spaceship flyers already.

Ben (00:27:54):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, you know, we’re always going to need doctors and engineers and you know, folks who are exploring the depths of the ocean or the depths of space. But I think that that a higher education via college or university is sometimes placed on too high of a pedestal. That being said, you know, there are great thinkers and modern philosophers like a Nepal Robert Kahn for example, who says that no matter, no matter what industry you go into, right, whether you’re working at a paper mill or you’re an engineer or you’re an author or anything else, there are, there are specific really, he says there’s kind of five core skills that you should really do a good job attaining. And roughly they would be, uh, reading well, like, like knowing how to learn via books and other reading matter writing well, right? Being able to express thoughts in writing.

Ben (00:28:46):
Um, persuasion slash rhetoric, right? Like, like being able to simply make an argument effectively and then, uh, you know, math and arithmetic skills and finally logic, uh, slash computer programming skills. Right? And, and when you step back and look at those five skills, uh, you know, reading, writing, math, rhetoric and logic, you’re kind of looking at a liberal arts education, right? So I would say, you know, if anything, if my kids really wanted to go to college and they can’t really right now ask for advice and said, dad was the best degree I could get if I don’t know what I want to be, but I, but I still want to continue to learn. I don’t want to be able to Excel. Once I do decide, you know, what I really want to do with my life, you know, how I want to fulfill my purpose in life. I would say go get it. Go get a good liberal arts education.

Brad (00:29:33):
Well, that idea is now gaining more momentum. I think David Epstein’s book, Range, talking about our, our broad experience can actually help us more so than this extreme focus and the specialization that we’ve celebrated for so long in recent decades that you have to get more and more narrow. Um, so that’s, you know, that’s interesting. And hopefully the next wave of, uh, students will, will buy into that and the offerings will, will be that way as well. Yup. Yup.

Brad (00:30:06):
So we got this, we got this Boundless book. I’ve been doing my dead lifting with the book itself and getting stronger. Um, I’m wondering what the reception has been like and what are some of the highlights for you of completing another book and then launching it and interacting and promoting it.

Ben (00:30:25):
Wow, that’s a, that’s a pretty broad question. I mean, it’s like a 650 page book and, uh, there’s lots to be said there, but I mean, originally I wanted to write a book on, on anti-aging and longevity. You know, I’d been about three years ago, I really started to pivot from a real focus on, on performance, muscle gain, fat loss, you know, um, VO2 max lactate threshold, et cetera. Everything that my, my previous book beyond training had been about and, and really wanted to focus a little more on kind of the ultimate combination of health span and lifespan, whether it be paying attention to a lot of these tactics of, of, you know, centenarians and long look at hotspots around the globe. You know, what kind of teas and herbs and spices are they using, what does their family life look like?

Ben (00:31:11):
What is the relationships look like? Um, you know, how are they, how are they sleeping? What are their fasting protocols look like? What are their protein intakes look like? You know, kind of almost like a, a blue zones esque approach to antiaging and longevity. But, you know, I also pay a lot of attention to the, to the biohacking and kind of like the, the modern health sector. So I was looking at, you know, what a lot of the anti-aging hormone clinics in the U S or doing, you know, whether it be, you know, progesterone or testosterone or you know, DHA or format format and a rapid myosin to the use of, of, of, you know, like peptides, a lot of really good research come out of Russia on the use of specific peptides to slow aging and reduce all cause risk and mortality to, you know, different, different nutrients like, uh, you know, Sirtuins such as Resveratrol or Pterostilbene, or you know, mitochondrial protectants like NAD or NMN or NR.

Ben (00:32:05):
And I just really wanted to weave all that together into a really comprehensive book on anti aging and longevity. And when I began to write it, you know, and, and delve into everything from the blood brain barrier to your neurotransmitter balance, to the proper ratio of fast source, to slow twitch, muscle fiber for longevity to, uh, relationships, gratitude and spirituality to um, you know, the, the immune system, a topic hot at hand right now, you know, to, to the gut. I realized, you know, really what I would wind up writing was just kind of a blueprint for, for human function as a whole. And so over the course of the past three years, you know, with a lot of research and uh, a lot of time riding, I wound up with about a 1200 page manuscript that we, uh, we edited down to about 650 pages, you know, spanning everything from immunity to gut, the anti-aging to longevity, to sex, to, you know, to the brain, to smart drugs, nootropics, psychedelics, you know, everything’s in there.

Ben (00:33:03):
And, um, and, and yeah, wound up, wound up getting it published and uh, we obviously had to, had to cut a lot of material out of the book. What I did when I wrote, when I, when I designed the book webpage was I just created a, a specific webpage devoted to each chapter where I put all the content that got dropped from that chapter, all the extra podcasts, all the extra articles, all the books that would allow people to take a deeper dive and just tried to really take out, you know, all the work that I put together for the past three years. And I have to say goodbye to any of those babies, but instead put out the published book and then have a really good comprehensive website that people get access to. Uh, once they get the book, if they want to take a deeper dive and then, you know, and the extra stuff has been very well received.

Ben (00:33:46):
You know, most big New York publishing houses wanted me to, to dumb it down to like a 250 page, you know, airport, bookshelf paperback. And, you know, I put my foot down and said that, you know, I want to use the big words, I want the research, I want a functional medicine doc to be able to pick this up and, you know, use it to determine what kind of diet would be most appropriate for their patients. I want the lay person to be able to pick it up and, and learn how they can, you know, live past the age of a hundred and be around us, throw a football with their grandkids or their great grandkids. And, um, and so, you know, despite the fact everybody told me, you know, book of that magnitude of that, uh, of that size of that scope was not going to sell well. Um, you know, we, we hit number one and in just about every health category on Amazon and, um, the book has been very well received. And then I, I followed up with the audible version and the Kindle version, which are now available. And so, uh, yeah, it’s turned out pretty well.

Brad (00:34:41):
The audible version. Did you record the entire book?

Ben (00:34:45):
Uh, I didn’t record it. I, I, you know, because it’s 48 hours and there’s about nine hours of recording time and I thought, you know what, I found a wonderful, wonderful, you know, I interviewed so many people to record the book and you know, uh, one of my friends actually named James, he wound up doing the recording and I just decided, you know what, those 90 hours, yeah, it might be slightly better if I read it in my own voice, but that’s like 90 hours. I can spend, you know, formative time with my children versus locked away in recording studio. And I just kind of made the decision that, uh, you know, that they’re putting out the audio version, you know right away and have it available to people was what was important. And so, yeah, I didn’t record it, but it’s, uh, it’s a pretty hefty long recording. You know, it’s like a 48 hour audible book.

Brad (00:35:32):
Good on James there because that’s a lot of, that’s a lot of work for the voice. I, I’ve learned that, you know, I got two or three good hours. I mean, then you’ve got to come back and do it again the next day and the next day. But Oh my gosh, the, the presentation of the material is so compelling and so nicely organized that I think anyone can, you know, dip in and out if they’re feeling intimidated by reading the whole thing. But I think that’s a great attribute of it is you can zero in on a certain topic and then you’ll get drawn into, to reading further. But, um, it’s not just this big mountain of, of junk that you’re forcing people to wade through. You did an excellent job with the, the organization and the presentation.

Ben (00:36:12):
Well, thank you, man. Thanks. It was a, it was a, you know, I was mostly just responsible for the writing and the research and the overall scope of the project. And obviously I’m a, I’m not that great of an artist. You know, you asked me to make a nice plate of food and it generally, it looks like, uh, a cat puked on your plate even though the food tastes pretty good. Um, and so I left the graphic design and the layout out to people who are, are better equipped to do that than me.

Brad (00:36:37):
Well, back to that initial, uh, entry point when you described this book of transitioning in your own, uh, prioritize prioritizing in your goals from peak performance and, and getting up on the podium to, uh, pursuit of longevity. And I’m thinking about this a lot. I’m 55 now, Ben. I’m, I’m no longer the, the spring chicken that you met. I think we’ve met about seven or eight years ago. Uh, but I still have these, these peak performance goals. I want to improve my high jump. I want to break the Guinness world record again. And this entails, you know, some, some hard training, some pushing my body. Uh, I notice I don’t recover anywhere near as well as I did when I was younger. Maybe I need to read more of those chapters, but I’m wondering, is there an inherent trade off between, you know, maximizing your health span and trying to, uh, perform great things in athletics and maybe even in other areas of life, like writing a extremely long book and probably kept you up and interfered with your sleep and your meditation time and all that kind of thing?

Ben (00:37:45):
Well, I, I think that question has been addressed and answered many times before Brad. I mean, to be honest with you, I mean like, you know, between you and Mark Sisson and, and everybody else who’s talked about the trade off between performance and lifespan, I feel like I’d almost just be in an echo chamber basically, you know, repeating what has been oft said that, you know, the inflammation and the, the, um, the endocrine disruption and the circadian rhythm disruption and the, the mineral loss, the adrenal stress, everything else that comes from pursuing performance at all costs dictates that it’s not necessarily synonymous with, with health span and lifespan. You know, I certainly think there’s, there’s something, a hell of a time in the past 20 years, no competing and Spartan races and you know, you know, adventure races and everything else is going to beat my body up and spit it out.

Ben (00:38:34):
But you know what it feels like to just be constantly nursing an injury and then constantly, you know, you know, um, you know, having libido that fluctuates up and down and there’s not enough where you want to be at or thyroid justice functional or you know, just constantly not being able to say for example, you know, engage in ancestral practices like fasting or spiritual practices like, like meditation and silence and solitude and breathwork just because, you know, you’re just always training, performing, recovering, eating, rinsing, washing and repeating again. And, and I don’t think it’s any secret anymore. Um, you know, I have an entire, you know, you know, be on training, covered some of that and then download it, gets into it as well. And I know, you know, you and Mark have talked about that a lot as well. So I think that’s really already been addressed and people are pretty aware of that.

Ben (00:39:22):
If you, if you want to be an extreme athlete, then you gotta have some unnatural means in place to pursue those unnatural ends. And yeah, that might mean sleep disruption. It might mean, you know, eating more calories than you should. It might mean, you know, more inflammation present, chronic low level inflammation on a consistent basis. It might mean, you know, less relationship time, less community time, less meditation time, less parasympathetic time. And um, so, so yeah, I mean, I, I think that most people have, have kind of understood by this point that, uh, you can’t have your cake and eat it till you can’t be a professional marathoner for example, and expect to, to really maximize your lifespan.

Brad (00:40:06):
Yeah. So with your regard to your personal goals now and going into the gym and sweating and, uh, putting up some good numbers or uh, pursuing whatever goals you have, what is the, what is the sweet spot where we can do it right and still have that sense of satisfaction of going for the finish or medal or you know, being a, being, being better in your local community, basketball league and things like that.

Ben (00:40:31):
Yeah. Talk about that in the book a little bit. Um, you know, we know there are certain parameters that track quite well with aging. Uh, for example, walking speed is one, right? So going out and walking and not just walking but walking at a slightly faster pace than your body wants to walk at. And, and getting a step goal of 10,000 to 15,000 steps a day. And even embracing the use of technology initially to do that. Like there’s one thing I talk about in the book called the counter pace, right? Which, which is very similar to the type of $80,000 device they would use in cardiac rehab to pump blood back up to the heart during the diastolic phase of the heart. But instead you were this little heart rate monitor while you’re out on a walk. You could use it for running and it it the, the heart rate monitor sends like a cadence to headphones that you have in that are correlated specifically to your heart rate and your stride rate. So you’re trying to get your stride rate to match your heart rate so that the pumping of your legs is pumping at the exact time the diastolic phase of your heart occurs.

Ben (00:41:29):
So you’re actually training yourself how to increase your cardiovascular and your metabolic efficiency pretty dramatically when you’re using a tool like that. Uh, but when a walking speed is one, we know grip strength is another, right? So whether you’re, you’re testing with a dynamic or on our on a regular basis, like once a month to ensure your grip strength is maintaining or improving or you’re doing a lot of, of uh, you know, longer hangs in the gym from a pull up bar, a frequent use of something like the hex bar deadlift. Um, farmer’s walks carries things that improved grip strength. We know that that’s another thing to pay attention to and weave in throughout your day. We know that VO two max maximum oxygen utilization is something that attracts very well with aging and even uh, with with as infrequent a training session is once every two weeks. We know that VO two max can be increased or maintained the uh, maximum sustainable efforts of four to six minutes with about a one to one work to rest ratio, meaning four to six minutes of maximum sustainable pace where you’re breathing kind of hard and then four to six minutes of easy recovery.

Ben (00:42:30):
And you know, cycling through that for around four to six rounds just once every two weeks has been shown to increase VO2 max. A lactate threshold is another, like the ability to be able to buffer lactate, to convert it into glucose, uh, to be able to buffer acidity that tracks well with aging. And that’s something that can be achieved through more of a two to one work to rest ratio, like doing something like a warmup and a Tabata set on a bicycle three times a week for just, you know, four minutes as it would be the length of a Tabata set. Um, and then all one, one very interesting thing is that muscle mass, uh, actually it’s kind of inversely correlated with aging because of the necessary increase in antioxidant activity and the increased need to carry and cool muscle, you know, which is why often you see bodybuilders having issues with cardiomegaly or you know, left ventricular hypertrophy or cardiac abnormalities or excess inflammation due to all that muscle.

Ben (00:43:27):
Whereas we know that on the flip side, that smaller, more wiry fast twitch, you know, explosive muscle fibers are actually associated with a decreased rate of telomere shortening. And so, you know, taking more of like a, like a kettlebell explosive body weight training type of approach to your resistance training versus a, a bodybuilding style approach appears to be a better way to go, especially for, for aging. Um, you know, want one that’s, that’s a, um, that, that’s another one that kind of flies under the radar would be mobility and fascial integrity. Where I talk in the book about this, uh, you know, like 90 year old track star named Olga who used to keep a bottle of wine next to her bedside at night, not to drink, but she would actually like roll out or tissues with this big glass bottle of wine. And you know, this idea of how the daily mobility practice, you know, for, for me, you know, I have an entire chapter on duty and symmetry in the book core, getting everything from Ayurvedic practices, tongue scraping and coconut oil polling to, you know, different postures and different hats you can keep in your workplace for optimizing pelvic symmetry to, you know, my own practice of these 10 to 15 minute mashups of, you know, L-DOPA stretching and core foundation training and foam rolling and lacrosse ball work that I do every single morning for fascial integrity.

Speaker 5 (00:44:54):
And so, so really what I, what I lay out in the book are about, you know, eight to nine different parameters to hit. And then, you know, especially in the chapters on, on the body, like the symmetry and beauty chapter or the fitness chapter or the fat loss chapter. I, I lay out the systems and the actual, you know, sample weeks to actually allow someone to do that. And you know, you can, you can easily achieve what I’ve just described, assuming you’re engaged in low level physical activity throughout the day and postprandial strolls. And you know, occasionally lifting heavy things and play a little sports. You know, we’re talking about the actual formal training being anywhere from 40 to 50 minutes a day, which is doable for most folks.

Brad (00:45:35):
Yeah. It seems like the objective is to check these boxes rather than just sit on your butt all day. Um, they’re not too daunting and then, uh, don’t go crazy. Don’t go overboard. I remember Dr Phil Maffetone telling me, uh, regarding my strength training that I really shouldn’t be getting sore after these workouts and I’m like, Oh crap, I’m doing my, my hex bar dead lifts and I get sore a lot. Cause obviously I’m maybe doing too many sets or I haven’t done it as frequently enough to to build that solid baseline. But um, you know, getting a little bit in

Ben (00:46:08):
to play devil’s advocate, you can say that, but then he can look at another piece too is older like Art Devany who’s a huge fan of two things, eccentric training, right. For the, for the muscle fiber damage that occurs and the subsequent satellite cell response that may actually allow for some maintenance of some of those fast twitch muscle fibers and, and, and a big buildup of lactic acid during training, you know, using strategies like, uh, you know, blood flow restriction training for example. Right. And, and those types of things do leave you sore, they do leave you ascetic. But when done in moderation, the hormetic response to those results in increased mitochondrial density, increased lactate, buffering, increased formation of fast Twitch muscle fibers. And you know, and then you look at at a, at a guy like Phil and he has a smart approach of not beating herself obsessively up with, you know, something like anaerobic training. But then he might be missing the mark on the fact that yeah, sometimes you do need lactate, sometimes you do need each centric muscle tissue damage. So, you know, I think we have to take everything that, that a lot of these, you know, modern exercise advisors are so called experts, say with a grain of salt and actually step back and look at the research a little bit. I’m definitely not one of those guys who says, you’re never supposed to hurt. It’s never supposed to burn and you’re never supposed to be sore by any means.

Brad (00:47:27):
Right? And so I imagine you’ll, you’ll have some ebb and flows with your, your, uh, your routine where you’re gonna just honor those simple signals that you want to arrest and back off. And then other times you might have some fun and get your competitive intensity going. Uh, but you know, keeping, keeping sensible about it rather than, I think we’ve been socialized or the marketing forces have pushed us to, uh, you know, that you should compete in the Ironman to call yourself a legitimate triathlete and it happens to be on this date and you need to buy all this stuff and push yourself too hard and sort of get sucked into the vortex of an overly stressful lifestyle when you consider all the other stressors in life.

Ben (00:48:10):
Right. And I, I’m not against goals for maintaining fitness. For me, having kind of that wound goal of I want to live a long time, I want to see my grandkids, I want to be healthy, I want to have good bone density. For me personally, you know, maybe it’s part of just like my psyche from racing for so long, I don’t do well with that versus actually having something on the schedule. Like I just completed the Russian kettlebell certification, right? Like a lot of good functional strength training, a lot of like brief bouts of high intensity swinging and snatches and cleans. And I had that on the calendar for, you know, for five months. And that kept me pretty honest when it came to to getting out and doing some things to challenge my body and also force my brain to learn new moves. I actually just signed up for, for the Russian kettlebell 2 certification because after taking a few weeks off, after finishing that cert, I realized, okay, I need something else on the schedule.

Ben (00:48:59):
They give me a little eeky guide. So my training, you know, a little, a little purpose, a little something to rip me out of bed in the morning. But you know, I, I certainly assess that and step back and look at that goal as something that only requires me technically, if, you know, when it comes to hardcore training to maybe get in like a half hour a day kettlebell works as opposed to if I sign up for an Ironman, you know, two, three, four hours a day of training or sometimes longer on the weekends. So I think sometimes the goal you sign up for it needs to be taken into account and it can be something as simple as, you know, I want to be able to deadlift, you know, two times my body weight or I want to pass a a kettlebell certification or you know, something that I think allows you to still have a little bit of drive from a fitness standpoint, but it’s not going to be like a total evolutionary mismatch from an activity perspective.

Brad (00:49:51):
Nice. I love that. And what about, um, do you have any concessions for chronological aging or do you think with, with the Boundless approach, we can mitigate almost everything to the point that we can consider being, you can be just as good as you are today in 10 or 20 years.

Ben (00:50:11):
Oh, I mean, let’s not fool ourselves. We’re all, we’re all gonna die like that. That’s, that’s the painful part. And you know, a lot of people in the anti-aging sector don’t want to hear that. But you know, we, we, we, we all are going to be great as we age. And I think that, you know, while things like strengths and grip strengths are, there’s a semi truck about to go by so might get loud for a second. Well while things like strength and grip strength, et cetera are going to decrease with age. And the best we can do is stave off some of that sarcopenia or osteopenia just by continuing to train and continue to challenge ourselves. Well accepting the fact that we’re not going to have the same level of fitness always or did when we were 20 or 30 I think that when you look at things from a biochemical standpoint, and again this in the book you actually can with some some pretty smart strategies, you know, keep yourself biochemically young.

Ben (00:51:07):
So what I mean by that is we know like a NAD, one of our prime mitochondrial protectants that decreases by about 80 or 90% once around the age of 70 so we can do something like, you know, NAD supplementation or, or strategies that naturally increase NAD like fasting and the intake of a wide variety of fermented foods actually maintain the NAD levels. So mitochondria stay healthy. Another example would be that we know that as you age, pancreatic enzyme production decreases. You have lower levels of proteases. And so when you do eat protein as you age, consuming more digestive enzymes along with the protein is another smart strategy. Um, we know that that’s some of the glutathione and superoxide dismutase activity decreases with age. So we can use things like, uh, not only cruciferous vegetables and mushrooms for example, as glutathione sources where we can also do things like, you know, a weekly intramuscular gludethyon injection or the use of the lyposomal gludethyon supplement on a, on a daily basis or you know, even, you know, doing something like, you know, soaking and sprouting broccoli seeds. And so I think that it’s actually a little bit easier to keep up biochemically than it is physically. But I think that ultimately you got to feel good as you age. You ought to kind of have a little bit of both.

Brad (00:52:32):
Okay. Some of your comments have a triggered my memory from around March of 2019 when I, when I tuned into the Ben Greenfield fitness podcast and listened to you get into it with Dr. Paul Saladino and my, you know, deepest exposure to the, the carnivore, uh, concept and it’s been, it’s been, uh, you know, rolling around in my head ever since then. You guys have done some wonderful, uh, followup shows as well. Uh, and I keep looking at the plate of broccoli and then looking at my cold tub and that comparison that Paul made that, um, you know, the, the hormetic stressor is really what we’re, what we’re touting with this, these intake of these high antioxidant foods. And you can get that in other ways, therefore you don’t need them. Therefore, a lot of the foundation of our, uh, our, our notion about healthy eating and the colorful foods of the planet, uh, is, is being challenged. And I’m just wondering where you’re, where you’re at with this. Uh, today, here in 2020.

Ben (00:53:38):
Yeah. I have nothing against carnivore diet. You can survive on a, on a properly comprised, you know, nose to tail diet as long as you include maybe a little extra bone mail, you know, possibly if you’re, if you’re an athlete, some extra ascorbic acid, you know, and uh, um, you know, maybe if you’re aging the use of some, some enzyme supplements. But you know, when you step back and look at things gotta take into consideration a few things. A yeah, these foods that, that maybe at one time were survival soup foods. You know, these built in plant defense mechanisms. Um, this idea that we might not need those foods. The fact is that a, you could disable almost every plant survival mechanism through fermenting, soaking, sprouting and ancestral preparation tactics that render a lot of lectins and glutens and fight to Jassen inhibitors. You know, all these other things you can, you can through smart cooking and preparation tactics, disabled a lot of those, B, they become staples in society or like anywhere you travel in the world.

Ben (00:54:34):
There are wonderful, you know, marinara has and casseroles and sauces and salads that have just become a staple of those cultures that people gather around. They’re colorful, they provide enjoyment, they provide tradition. Yeah. Maybe at one time they could have been things that people turn to when only when they didn’t have access to large animals. But now they make us happy. Right? We gather around those and we enjoy them. And you know, I don’t know many families that on Thanksgiving just gather around a turkey. Right. Because it’s just, you know, it’s part of our culture. And I think there’s, there’s something to be said for learning how to prepare and learning how to enjoy a lot of the different plants that might grow in your garden or in the land around you versus just myopically focusing on meat. And then finally, just just from an epidemiological standpoint, like, you know, for example, I’m reading a book on the Spokane Indian tribe right now, right.

Ben (00:55:26):
Cause I want to get to know a little bit more about the history of the native Americans that lived around here. Um, they ha, I mean they had so many large game, Oh so much large game access. You know, they, they would have that hunting strategy where they’d just like go drive Buffalo off a cliff and collect the carcasses at the bottom and they’d hang baskets underneath the Spokane falls and touch literally hundreds and hundreds of pounds of salmon per day and at the same time, not during times of famine, but at the same time as the men were out doing that, the women were out in the fields, they were collecting parsnips, they were collecting root vegetables, they were collecting nettle, they were collecting leaves and plants and mushrooms and berries. And when the men would come back from hunting, they would eat that. They would eat the animal foods along with all of those plant foods, not because they were starving and the plant foods were providing them with what they couldn’t get from animal foods, but because part of their society had tapped into this idea that those were cultural staples.

Ben (00:56:22):
And I would suspect they also knew that they were medicinal staples, that they were things that that could provide some amount of antioxidant protection or some amount of digestive enzyme support. And so, you know, I, again, I do not argue with the idea that you can, you can get everything you need from a properly comprised, you know, nose to tail, uh, you know, organ, meat based diet. But I would in no way say that, uh, the, that I would, I would forego plants for health reasons. I think that there’s a lot of enjoyment to be derived from them. And I think there’s a lot of societal benefit to including plants in the diet.

Brad (00:57:00):
Well, I really appreciate how you make an effort to transcend what’s really becoming, uh, annoying and fatiguing these diet Wars where we’re, we’re going back and forth and, and nitpicking and scrutinizing. And you, you said a great line in that podcast you did in India where you said, uh, you’re on the diet for life. And then reference the, the wonderful, the, the now world famous Greenfield family dinners where you, you know, you open up the purse strings and have fun and enjoy and maybe you’re taking in more carbs than would be past the Keto guideline. But you know, taking a step back and looking at this bigger picture of enjoying the entire experience of eating, I think it would benefit everyone to focus on that rather than get into the nitpicking.

Ben (00:57:47):
Yup. I totally agree. I mean, case in point tonight we’re, we’re having, you know, we’re having fish and a wonderful wild caught salmon and I’m actually right now in the, in the Sufi, I have some sweetbreads going right sometime this gland for a little bit of extra immune system support and you know, I’m Suby and those, I’ll finish those off with the little grill. I’ll dredge them through some coconut flour and cook them up with some butter and some eggs and we’ll have those. We’ll have salmon, but we’ll also have some carrot fries. We’ll have some broccoli and alfalfa and red clover seeds that I’ve soaked and sprouted for dessert. I’ll have like a a goat’s milk fermented yogurt that I made that’s mixed with all of oil. We’ll have the cow powder, a little bit of Stevia. So you know, I’m a fan of just like, you know, eating a wide variety of foods, preparing them properly and also paying attention to the enjoyment derived from gathering around a wide variety of food as well. Because you know, I love following you, super smart, but you know, I, I don’t, not the sushi one night, you know, he came out to sushi as everybody else, but he had a little Pyrex glass container with some kidney fat and the testicle in it and that’s what he had for dinner. And I think that you can certainly do that, but it’s, it, it tends to get a little bit restrictive and almost on a laborious to go over where with the, with a Pyrex glass container of, of it involves.

Brad (00:59:03):
Yes. Do you mind if I bring these into your establishment? Oh, sure. Go ahead.

Ben (00:59:07):
Yeah, yeah.

Brad (00:59:09):
Well, I guess whatever, uh, whatever turns you on. And, um, you know, when you’re talking to the, the general audience, um, sometimes I get pushback from people that, uh, want to say in moderation and they get to enjoy their, uh, processed foods because it’s part in life and it’s part of culture. So I think there’s, um, some distinctions to be had and, uh, the more you can educate yourself and realize how it, how good it feels to eat healthy, rather than put junk into your body and you can make some forward progress. But, uh, boy, you know, the stuff you’ve mentioned there on the, on the evening menu, I don’t think anyone would be disappointed leaving that table.

Ben (00:59:49):
Right, right, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, again, nothing is the carnivore diet. It’s just, you know, and I did it for like 12 weeks and I did fine on it, but it was just various kind of socially active and you know, and, and I just think that needs to be taken into consideration.

Brad (01:00:03):
Well, it’d be, we talked about the balance of, uh, athletic goals and, and training hard and then pursuing longevity. And I think, um, there’s another balance checkpoint to be had here. I’m wondering your opinion on, and that would, you could characterize this as, um, the extreme devotion to health and the biohacking versus going with the flow and realizing life ain’t perfect. And this quote from Bruce Lipton on one of the podcasts, I think he was talking to, uh, Luke Story, uh, you know, attesting that our thoughts affect our cellular function at all times. And therefore, if you start stressing about your EMF exposure, uh, while your laptop is, uh, firing away and your, your phone’s in your ear, um, that can in fact compromise your health. So I’m wondering where you find that balance point. You’ve also made some great comments about Jessa where, you know, she turns off the lights and goes to sleep and you’re unplugging these wires and wearing your glasses and doing all these protocols that you believe this is boosting your health and how do we, how do we navigate that trail?

Ben (01:01:08):
Yeah. You can certainly get, get OCD about some of this stuff. And you know, for me personally as an immersive journalist and an author and a podcast or I can make a certain excuse for constantly trying out things cause I guess they’re a part of my job. You know, all my podcasts just report this stuff to folks and you know, and, and fill people in on what’s working and what’s not. So I’m always trying a wide variety of things. But, um, yeah, I think we’re doing to strike a balance. And I think that one of the best ways for people to think about this is what good does it take? You know, what good is it to live until you’re, let’s say 110 if you know, 30 years of those life are spent in hyperbaric oxygen chambers and with laser lights, make it in your office and taking all sorts of supplements, uh, and all that time you’re spending trying to live a long time is time spent away from the family. So at some point you need to, you want to step back and make sure that you’re not, you’re, you’re not, you’re not using excess time, you’re using your time responsibly. And, um, and then the other thing to take into consideration is, you know, I, I do think there’s something to be said about Bruce Lipton’s idea behind the Biology of Belief that what we believe could be harmful to us or what, what we

Ben (01:02:20):
believe by impact us deleteriously could just manifest itself and that you can almost think yourself into a state of sickness. And I, well, I agree that that emotions are certainly tied to chronic diseases. And you know, we know, you know, like hatred and bitterness and anger for example, can settle in the bones and potentially manifest as cancer or you know, or sexual oppression could potentially result in some prostate issues. I also don’t think that you can just sit down in front of a big Mac with supersize fries and a Dr Pepper and you know, blast that with positive energy and then mow it down and expect that you’re going to be just fine. So I do think you got drawn a lot somewhere.

Brad (01:02:59):
Well, one way to, uh, to get there is to, is to grab this book, people, um, you will not be disappointed. Tell us about that website where you can go even deeper.

Ben (01:03:11):
Yeah, it’s just boundless book.com that’s, you can get the book. That’s where it got all the bonuses, um, you find on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, I’ve always got a podcast and I’m add an extra material to at uh, at Ben Greenfield fitness.com where you’ve been a guest before Brad and we’ve had some good discussions over there. So I think those would be a couple of good resources for people to be boundless. book.com and uh, Ben Greenfield, fitness.com.

Brad (01:03:38):
Well, Ben, enjoy your time. Uh, laying low. I’m sure we’ll be seeing you out there spanning the globe again in the future, but keep doing what you’re doing. I appreciate the conversation. We got into some interesting topics that, uh, might not be, uh, the same as your, you’re hitting on so many of your podcast appearances. So that was kind of fun to go behind the scenes and I enjoy connecting with you every time, man.

Ben (01:04:03):
We’re a Brad, thanks so much for having me on and keep up the good work on your hand,

Brad (01:04:07):
Ben Greenfield boundless book. Go check it out people. Thanks for listening.

Brad (01:04:16):
Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback at getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves cause they need to. Thanks for doing it.

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