Keen fans of Borat, the legendary movie my Sacha Baron Cohen, will realize I’m knocking off his movie title here. It’s appropriate to capture the theme of our conversation, which covered all manner of healthy eating and living, but hit the theme of healthy European traditions contrasted with hectic, hyper-speed, overly-stressful American life today.

Tania was born and raised in America and graduated from Brown University, and has spent many years of her adult life in places like Japan, Russia, and is now based in Bern, Switzerland. She has been on an amazing journey of health and immersion into her authoring of one of the most fabulous and comprehensive books ever written on the planet, titled The Bordeaux Kitchen, An Immersion Into French Food and Wine, Inspired By Ancestral Traditions 

This book represents her life’s work, filled with insights about improving health through ancestral-style eating, the rich tradition of French cuisine, always honoring the ancestral perspective, and a fabulous education about wine and how to pair it with assorted paleo meals. We talk about Tania’s quest to regain her health after a disastrous ordeal starting with a burst appendix sustained in Kazakhstan (speaking of Borat, that’s his hood!), and a long hospital stay afterward dealing with complications. She has studied the health consequences relating to mass produced food (including the recent alarming commentary about widespread ingestion of glyphosates, the toxic chemical found in RoundUp weed killer product), EMF exposure (SmartMeters from utilities, WiFi signals), excess artificial light and digital stimulation on your circadian rhythm as well as your mitochondrial function, impurities in the water supply, the consequences of gut dysfunction, and much more. Yes, Tania is a real forward thinker about health and natural living. It’s worth listening carefully to her concerns and insights, instead of our usual knee-jerk reaction to accept as normal all the health offenses in modern life.  


Tania has written a masterpiece of a cookbook that includes French Cooking recipes along with the wine and descriptions of life there. She focuses on ancestral health. [04:23]

Her book is way more than a French Cookbook. Surprisingly the French culture is much aligned with the principals of Primal living. [09:08] 

The Europeans seem to have a much calmer, socializing, relaxing lifestyle. [13:00] 

People in the US need to slow down. [19:31] 

The organic label does not entirely let us know the facts. [25:15] 

Eggs’ labels are very confusing. [30:05] 

From farmers’ markets in Europe, there has been a shift in some areas to super market, but most people still take advantage of the farmer’s markets. [33:48] 

Public transportation functions well in Europe compared to US. [39:03] 

Kid’s absorption with light from screens is damaging eyes. [40:25] 

Blue light is the color we see around noon, so the artificial light at night from screens throws off our Circadian rhythm. [46:24] 

A lot of the new light bulbs we have are a problem [49:17] 

Sun exposure in the morning sets up your Circadian rhythm. [52:10] 

They explain the difference between fresh air and stale air. [56:24] 

Obesity might be a function of not getting the right amount and right type of light. [58:35]

Many people don’t really realize the importance of being outside. [59:41]

We are creating endless summer according to how our genes are wired to use light. [01:00:40]

In Tania’s book she covers ancestral health, her health journey as well as French cooking and wine. [01:03:38] 

If you use fresh ingredients, you don’t have to read labels.  Put the boxes away! [01:07:05]

When you make desserts with rich fats, you don’t need as much sugar. [01:09:49]

The moral of vegetarian versus meat eaters is another issue. [01:16:40]

If you are taking an animal’s life, you’d better lead a purposeful and meaningful life yourself. [01:18:08] 



Download Episode MP3

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author an athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balance that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 00:04:23 Hi listeners. Enjoy my wonderful conversation with Bordeaux kitchen author, Tania Teschke. I was so glad to meet with her in person after working with her for quite a long time remotely from her base in Switzerland. She finally got this incredible book done. It’s an absolute masterpiece. It is the most comprehensively researched and presented book we’ve ever published at primal blueprint publishing. Started out as a thousand pages. We cut it down to 600 and something, but it’s a comprehensive cultural immersion into French cooking, living and wine like something you can never imagine. With all the recipes in the descriptions and the preparations and the weaving in of the culture and the traditions and France and why the French paradox is nonsense. The French paradox is that they have low rates of heart disease despite eating this rich diet.

Brad: 00:05:18 And the revelation here is, it’s not a paradox. It could be one of the causes of the longevity of the French and their total enjoyment of food and culture and shopping at the farmer’s markets and preparing fresh meals and joining him in a social setting that’s calm and relaxed and all the things that we’re missing out with fast paced western culture. So our show definitely gets into that theme hard because it’s fascinating to me to capture some of the other cultures around the world that have not yet plunged headlong into this disastrous tech addiction. Fast food consumerism culture that’s run a muck in the United States. And this is Tanya’s first visit back in awhile and she’s getting a little bit of culture shock, obviously, uh, born and raised in America, but then living overseas and places like Japan, Russia, and now Switzerland for many years raising her children overseas.

Brad: 00:06:13 So we talk about the differences in child rearing a from some European traditions and what’s going on in America today. Also the dietary habits. And this girl’s been on such an amazing journey, a quest to regain her own health after some serious health challenges, including a disastrous burst appendix that happened in of all places, Kazakhstan, where she had to be flown emergency manner over to Germany and then had numerous complications, was in the hospital for weeks in Germany trying to survive this terrible ordeal, but looking into the all types of alternative health practices due to her own health journey in these things. I’ve informed her message and her book so wonderfully, and she was in the midst of a west coast book tour. So she’s going for it and has organized some wonderful events in Los Angeles, San Francisco. She had a great event in New York City.

Brad: 00:07:07 So if you’re interested in ancestral health and upping your game and understanding about the beautiful French cultural traditions of wine and food, grab this book, you will absolutely not be disappointed. Five star reviews abound because it’s impossible not to give it a five star review when yoUSee what it’s all about and I think you’ll enjoy are wide ranging conversation with Tania Teschke coming all the way from Bern, Switzerland to the get over yourself studios and Sacramento. Tania Teschke jet lagged, but here with a smile. Thank you for coming across the world to just for the podcast and some other stuff like a fabulous book tour for the Bordeaux Kitchen.

Tania: 00:07:50 Thanks Brad. Thanks for inviting me.

Brad: 00:07:53 How has this whirlwind journey gone since the book’s published then the real work started. You had to start promoting it. Tell us about the book tour and what’s, what’s up?

Tania: 00:08:02 Well, I just got in a couple of nights ago to California and I’ve got,

Brad: 00:08:07 do you live in Switzerland? I live in Switzerland or American American. Born and raised and been over there with um, with your kids and getting it. We’re going to talk about this later, about the juxtaposition between the disastrous modern consequences of good ole American living and some of the traditions in the Europeans that are raising their kids in a more favorable manner and enjoying a more balanced lifestyle. But right now you came from Switzerland over here to, to promote this beautiful book.

Tania: 00:08:35 Yeah, well my dad lives in California, so I wanted to see him. And so starting here in San Francisco and a couple of days and I’m appealing to the foodies, uh, of California and then I’ll go on to Los Angeles and after that to Seattle. So that’s my, that’s my plan. And in the meantime, seeing old friends and making new ones hopefully, and you know, promoting the book and hoping that it will interest people and also help them on their health journey the way it’s helped me.

Brad: 00:09:08 Right. So it’s the, the Bordeaux Kitchen. The subtitle is: an immersion into French food and wine inspired by ancestral traditions. I had to lean over and read that even though we worked through that subtitle so hard, every word of it, trying to get exactly what this book captured. But it’s so interesting because it’s way more than a French cookbook. We looked on Amazon today and saw a hundred such cookbooks where they’re just giving you the recipes. But this thing is a, is a health journey and education. It’s got everything. And I have to say, we’ve been, we’ve been publishing books at Primal for 10 years and this one is by far the most comprehensive and absolutely your life’s work coming into these pages. I think it was, you know, we started with like a thousand pages, right? And we cut it down. We painstakingly cut it down to 600 and something. Right? Yeah. We cut it down a little bit, but it’s good. It’s good.

Tania: 00:10:00 Big enough. And um, has kind of the Paleo primal ancestral primer, um, for those who don’t know it yet, but, um, uh, you know, that kind of added to its length. Um, but you know, people need to know, and I’ve, I’ve tried to, um, write it in such a way that, that I’m hopefully convincing people that, you know, looking back to our ancestors is a good approach to our modern way of beating, um, rather than the processed foods. And, uh,

Brad: 00:10:40 this show is sponsored by in and out Burger and Taco Bell, the two for one special, if you mentioned the get over yourself podcast, right. And it just so happens that you’re, you’re deeply immersed into the Paleo scene. You’re on your own health journey. We’ll talk about that a little bit too. But it happens that traditional French culture and cooking is tightly aligned with all the principals that were spouting, I guess most all of them in the ancestral movement.

Tania: 00:11:06 Yeah, they really, really are. It’s amazing if you, if you kind of break down, um, and it’s not just the French, it’s, it’s, uh, if that happens to be the culture that I connected with, but you know, so many traditional cultures really, they, they, uh, they use, you know, the natural products, the pork lard or, you know, eat the organ meats. And, um, but I happened to, you know, be in France for a few years and I’m a kind of a francophile because I’ve spent time previously as a student and working there and that kind of thing. But, um, but the French traditions really touched me. Um, at the same time that I was learning about the ancestral lifestyle, kind of going back to how people use to prepare foods and gather to eat and, and the wine component two, um, you know, it helps yoUSlow down and helps you, um, just connect with others and celebrate the flavors and aromas and, and really, like I said, slow down, which is something that we’re not doing right now in our modern lifestyle. Everything’s just speeding up. And as I’ve, you know, been trying to promote the book, I’ve noticed that. Yeah, it just seems like maybe it’s because I’m, I’m in this world now of, uh, social media and trying to get people’s attention. It’s really, it’s really a challenge. People are pulled in many directions and it’s, um, I, it, there’s a lot of competition for one’s time and attention and concentration. And I think it’s just getting, it’s getting harder and we’re moving further away from what our ancestors did, which was, you know, just spend time together.

Brad: 00:13:00 Yeah. I remember visiting my, my college roommate, uh, Barbara Stein from Boolavogue, Switzerland. Uh, I was on a European trip from a racing triathlons and she said, come see me anytime. You know, we were roommates at UC Santa Barbara, just some random European exchange student and turns out she had a pretty nice place there for me to stay and hang out for several days. But, uh, it was amazing because come five or six o’clock or whenever the people got off work, we went down to the town, uh, I guess you would call it the hall or the pub where they serve dinner and also alcohol. And we ate and we sat around and talked and, and had something else and then had something to drink. And it seemed like the whole village was there from 5:45 to 10:45 PM. Like it was just a routine part of life that they hung out and visited and socialized. And my gosh, we have so much brain research and psychological wellbeing studies showing that this is just a fabulous way to live your life. It promotes happiness and fulfillment and all these great things that we seem to be missing out on with the digital age. Now, I wonder, that was, uh, 30 years ago. Hey, Barbara, if you’re listening, I haven’t seen you in awhile. Ah, but what about now are you saying that, let’s say in France or Switzerland, how do they score if you’re on a one to a hundred scale on US is what, what’s a US now like a 33 or, I don’t know, something does disgraceful really with the tech addiction and the, you know, prevalence of all the junk food. How’s Europe doing right now? 2018?

Tania: 00:14:39 Well, that’s a great question because you know, more and more, um, it seems like the, that Europe is kind of following in the US footsteps of just fat. Everything’s faster, fast, fast food, eating on the run.

Brad: 00:14:58 Is it true you can get a Facebook account if you’re European or is that just, Oh, wait, oh, you can an iPhone. Oh my gosh, we’re exporting everything.

Tania: 00:15:07 Yeah. Well, and they’re really into their, well actually the European, yeah. Had the cell phones before. Oh, that’s right. Oh, the Americans did. But um, yeah, it’s uh, gosh, the scorecard. Well, I have to say that, um, I haven’t been backlog in the US but um, uh, I’ve already seen kind of the higher prevalence of obesity and things like that and um, so, so Europe is still behind in that ahead if you want to look at it that way. Um, and you know, the traditions are still there. The architecture is there, the bells in the churches, they ring. I actually missed that, um, already. Um, and you know, the lifestyle, it’s starting to change and, and you can, you can get lots of fast food at the grocery stores in Switzerland or, or France. Um, but there’s still that construct or that, I don’t know, what do you call it, you know, infrastructure of, of a, a traditional lifestyle and the on Sundays, everything’s closed. You know, you don’t shop at the mall and Sundays, you can shop at IKEA, you know, on Saturdays. But then they close at whatever time, five or six, and that’s it. You know, you see, you, you sort of plan your life, uh, knowing that Sundays are going to go walk up and out or something like that.

Brad: 00:16:41 I think the siestas in the afternoon, is that still a fixture?

Tania: 00:16:44 Oh, well, you know, in countries in the more southerly countries like, um, like Spain, uh, yes, I think they’ll, they have, um, the siestas. That’s not really something so much in, in a place like France or Switzerland. Um, so they’re more, well, there’s still kind of the weekend lunch at grandma’s. Um, that’s definitely there. Um, you know, family visits on the weekends, that’s really important. Um, so that’s an institution that hasn’t changed yet. Um, and you know, all the bars and the quick shakes and things, it’s really not, it’s not something that’s come into the lifestyle and in Europe as much. There are a few people you know, running around with,

Brad: 00:17:32 uh, dos Cliff bar. Very good. You try, this is soul told nutritious. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Let’s keep him out of there. Cute. Yeah.

Tania: 00:17:41 Um, they have some and you know, Starbucks is infiltrating of course. Um, but, uh, and, and the other, you know, fast food places, not, not all of them, a few. Um, but, uh, it’s just a different, you know, they kind of started from a different base, like I said, the architecture and the cultural development.

Brad: 00:18:03 So it was Taco Bell doesn’t fit in as well to that central square in Bern, Switzerland as it does maybe in Elk Grove, California that the sprawling suburbs outside of Las Vegas or something just drop a Taco bell in there. It looks like it’s an authentic part of the native landscape.

Tania: 00:18:20 Right? Well, and the strip malls, you know, there, there are, there are some, for example, just outside board, central Bordeaux, kind of old town Bordeaux, they have kind of strip malls type places and it’s, it’s pretty ugly. Um, so, you know, you have to, if you stay in the old towns, but they’re everywhere in Europe, um, you know, you get that romantic, um, feeling of the architecture and the medieval buildings and that kind of thing. But, um, but there is, uh, you know, people are on their cell phones and you know, there is, there is sort of progress, as you might say in, in Europe, people are moving faster, but they still have thankfully connection, you know, to the, to the past. Um, whether they like it or not. Um, which is something that just, you know, in the US we just don’t have as long a history of, you know, these distinct cultures and it’s, it’s a blend. It’s a newer entity. So, you know, it’s easier to kind of go with the next new thing, uh, here.

Tania: 00:19:31 And, and, and that, that’s a frustrating thing for entrepreneurs in Europe where the regulations and, and, um, you know, the social norms and even the, the economy is set up somehow, not as much for an entrepreneurial spirit. It’s a little harder than in the US you just, you know, start a new business today. And that’s what I’m doing. So that’s wonderful about the US you know, but, um, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s just different. Um, here and I don’t, I don’t know where, where we’re going here in the US it’d be interesting to see how things develop, but I, I just don’t see people slowing down. I see things speeding up and I’m hoping that more people kind of catch on to and think about, you know, taking the time. Cause I think really who suffers most are the, the younger generations, you know, the little kids who are just getting, uh, some crackers before they go to school or whatever it is, you know, a bowl of cereal and skim milk when they really need, uh, uh, uh, when they really should be having eggs and bacon in my opinion, you know?

Brad: 00:20:47 Yeah. And they’re not involved in the meal preparation maybe as much. There’s no family meal preparation anymore. Eric Schlosser Fast Food Nation, great book, that’s now many years old. Identified this. Yeah. The rise of fast food in the fifties destroyed the, one of the main fabrics of American culture was, was, which was the family home cooked and home eaten meal together. Yeah. And the kids are side by side understanding what healthy ingredients are and how to, how to prepare a meal. And now it’s just outsourced because hardworking parents, it made me double income at him with kids DIWK are going and go on all day. No one really feels like taking an hour to make a meal when you can get in line for seven minutes and, and, and bring it all home. And so, you know, step by step where we’re falling off and to where, um, today’s kid has had an entire lifetime of fast food experience. And even, I was just saying this, uh, to someone about the, um, the slurpee phenomenon where, um, you know, we, we pounded a ton of slurpees back in my day and we would ride our bikes around the San Fernando Valley in the hot summer sun. And then when we were hot and thirsty and we’d go get a slurpee, but guess what? We went on our bicycles to get it and drink it and enjoy it, and then ride home up a really steep hill. So we knew that we’re going to go get that slurpee, we’re going to pay the price coming home, probably burned off all that sugar by the time I got home and today it’s like the carpool stomps off and, and gets the, uh, the slurpee or the Jamba juice or whatever. Ooh. I said slurpee and Jamba juice and direct comparison. Imagine that, sorry John. But juice, but same amount of simple sugar grams in that dose that you’re still dosing your kid with the same thing. So how old are your kids?

Tania: 00:22:31 They’re 12 and 10. And they’ve been in Europe their whole lives, or basically we did a tour in Japan as well. Um, which neither of them remember as much as they remember Moscow and Bordeaux. Wow. And then now we’re on travelers. Switzerland. Yeah. It’s, it’s nice that they were in Bordeaux at a time when they actually, they have still retained the French. And in Russia they were able to start speaking Russian, but they, they’ve forgotten it because they weren’t, they were just too small. So, um, and prior to that we were in Japan where my younger daughter was born and neither of them really remember that. Just, you know, we show them videos, but, um, so yes, they’ve had wonderful, you know, um, kind of, uh, well experience and exposure to other cultures. But there, of course, they’re very curious about American culture. And I, you know, as I grew up in the US so to me it’s not as interesting, um, as exploring Europe, but for them, you know, I wish, I understand.

Tania: 00:23:38 They really want to get back to the US so I’m, I have many, you know, misgivings about it, a hesitation, it’s really scary for me to come back to this, this a world of, uh, the, you know, American, I don’t know the, what, what we do here. And so I just,

Brad: 00:23:59 using social media, that’s what we do for teenagers.

Tania: 00:24:02 I mean, there’s so many wonderful things about the United States. And of course we want to show them that the national parks and you know, the, the friendliness that abounds in the US for the Americans are always so friendly. And, um, there are so many wonderful opportunities here, but it’s, but there, there’s also the darker side that, of course, I see as being kind of a worry wort all the time. Um, you know, the things that bother me, like the, the glyphosate issues and the, the smart meters, which are, you know, required on homes throughout the US and um, you know, and then the vaccine schedules and it’s just a lot of issues that, you know, maybe maybe you can not think about them, but I happened to be one who does, especially, you know, being so kind of obsessed about good health and good lifestyle and um, you know, that kind of thing.

Brad: 00:24:58 So the glyphosate is commercially available as roundup and therefore, because it’s killing weeds in the fields, it’s getting into our food supply. And this is a big concern of yours. And this is nonexistent in Europe. Is it band or something?

Tania: 00:25:15 Well, you know, that, no, it, it’s, it’s allowed and, um, the EU is allowing it for a few more years kind of shelving the, putting it off. I mean, unfortunately Europe follows the US and a lot of, um, in a lot of policies that may be, maybe they shouldn’t, um, just kind of say yes right away and follow. But it’s all very complicated. And of course, but for the glyphosate, um, you know, I think it’s banned in Switzerland. Um, but I still, you know, purchase organic there only because, um, things that are conventional are still sprayed with synthetic chemicals to a certain degree. So we try to, you know, eat organic and grass fed and, uh, which is all available there, you know, but there’s, but as Joel Saltzand says, there is industrial organic, and then there’s, you know, local farmer organic. So we, you know, we try to, we buy our, um, eggs from the little, uh, pastured hen, a farm nearby where they have a little hut and you go in on the honor system and buy your eggs and put the money on the little box or system. It’s really wonderful. And, or you go to the, you know, to the farm and buy your milk evening, bring your glass bottle and put in your Francs and then you get your rock at your, your,

Brad: 00:26:44 yeah, yeah. That’s wonderful. There was a lady at the local supermarket here in the United States pitching her raw milk and it turns out she’s from the farm had driven three and a half hours to set up her little stand on the aisle at this market and try this raw milk. I had never tried it in my life. I’ve only written about it for many years and all the books like raw is a superior choice because of all the nutrition that is killed. What the pasteurization process, try to find it in your area. I’m like, good luck with that. Here I was drinking, my first raw milk. It Is delicious. I don’t even drink milk. And I bought, you know, the stuff from her and it was making my smoothies with it and nice. It tastes, it tastes different. The eggs tastes so much different. And the bright colored yolk to the extent that now like I’m, you know, I’m becoming a uh, uh, uh, Francofile, that’s a nice polite term for, uh, you know, extreme devotion to French culture. So now I’m the eggofile where I really only liked the pastured eggs and I, I have a, there’s a distinct drop down to the extent that I don’t even feel like making an omelet with regular eggs when, once you’ve had, once you’ve gone to that other side and tasted huge difference.

Brad: 00:27:50 So when you have industrial organic like Usda certified organic green circle familiar on all the labels, um, how is that comparing to your local farmer? How has the local farmer superior to that organic but mass produced in mass transported product?

Tania: 00:28:07 Well, in the US that used to be Oregon tilth, um, was sort of this, the name for the certification. Um, there were others as well, but there are sort of smaller third party certification for organic. And um, you know, but now because organic in the US has become so much, has become a significant profitable portion of sales of, of food. The USDA I think kind of stepped in and I think they, you know, I haven’t read all the regulations of what it takes to be organic under USDA, but it’s not the same as Oregon tilth? you know, the, I think they’ve lowered the bar in order to let more people in.

Brad: 00:28:54 So, what does tilt stand for?

New Speaker: 00:28:57 Um, you know, I don’t know if it was the, the location.

Tania: 00:29:01 I mean I know if Oregon MILF is one thing, but Oregon tilth is,

Tania: 00:29:06 yeah, well I think that’s just the name. I don’t know if it’s,

Brad: 00:29:08 sorry, people you’re on, you’re on the get over yourself podcast are going to be occasional jokes going, whether it’s over your head or not. That’s fine.

Tania: 00:29:14 It might be over my head.

Brad: 00:29:16 I know, I know some Oregon mill spread. I don’t know where it can tilt. Yeah, I’ve heard of that. And seen that here and there. So you’re saying that predates or is more refined and sophisticated then USDA certified organic? Yup,

Tania: 00:29:28 Definitely a higher standard and am very much predates USDA. In fact, I don’t even see Oregon tilth anymore. I think they probably either they killed it or you know, Kinda took over. Um, probably still in Portland.

Brad: 00:29:42 I don’t know. Brian, you’re mastering the recording. Tell us. Go look in that label. But I am aware that an organic animal with the organic stamp, uh, is mandated that they ate organic feed, which is a lot different than, you know, um, going out and being a pure pasture raised animal.

Tania: 00:30:03 Well, that’s right. That’s probably the biggest,

Brad: 00:30:05 I guess that’s for the eggs too. And so when you get a pastured egg from a farm, that chicken most likely ate some worms, some grass had a very diet high omega three diet is spitting out an egg with all that good stuff in it. Whereas the organic egg maybe just ate organic feed. And I know they have a

Tania: 00:30:25 right on,

Brad: 00:30:25 They’re supposed to have access to pasture, which in some cases it could be a little door in a giant coop. Right. So they’re not really a pastured animal.

Tania: 00:30:33 That’s cage free I think.

Brad: 00:30:36 Right. Cage free. They haven’t, there’s a door over there if you guys want to go exercise.

Tania: 00:30:40 I don’t think they do. Yeah, unfortunately. And there are a few for exits. It’s, it’s very confusing I think because in the US there are many different, you know, um, I don’t know, labels that they use. Um, and actually Diana Rogers has done a great job of, um, you know, she’s a farmer herself and she, she talks about the differences and um, you know, it, it, I think if you’re, if you go with pastured, that’s means pastured usually that yes, they had some more arms and they were out in the pasture. Um, and going back to Joel Salitan farmer, you know, he’ll do, he will, um, move his cows from paddock to paddock and follow a couple of days later with the chickens and they eat, you know, the worms and everything that are in the poop. And it’s a great cycle. You know, they, they kind of, um, this is how the soil regenerates and the pastures regenerate. You know, you have the cows there, then you move them on elsewhere so the grass can regenerate and you have the, the chickens who are all happy about the, the little worms, um, you left behind are growing, you know, and in the poop and makes for great eggs.

Brad: 00:31:58 And in your environment in general in Europe, are these much easier to find or are they, are they consumed at a higher level than here?

Tania: 00:32:05 Well, I would say, you know, especially in Switzerland where they, um, where they kind of, the government subsidizes the farmers, um, to keep the to really steward the landscape and to keep the um, uh, landscape where it’s pasture, pastureland and, um, were there, you do see cows and you do see the farms that they’re all over really in the countryside.

Brad: 00:32:34 So they subsidize all farming activity too to make sure that it doesn’t become industrialized like we might think in America.?

Tania: 00:32:42 Well there is some, there is of course some industrial farming. Um, but at least the organic farmers are subsidized. I can’t say for 100% sure. I think also non organic are subsidized to a certain degree so that they can carry on, um, this, you know, business that otherwise would just be, you know, it would, it would deteriorate. Um, and in terms of industrial organic in Switzerland for example, it’s, um, you know, there are two competing large grocery, same chain stores, and then they’ll have their farmers who contribute to the milk and the sour cream and all those, you know, dairy products as, as well as the meats and the eggs actually. Um, so as, as for France, I’m trying to think, you know, um, uh, there are a lot of local farmers you can, you know, there’s a, there are markets there. Um, this is, this is what’s wonderful even in Switzerland to their, their market markets in the, in the towns.

Tania: 00:33:48 But, um, in what’s so wonderful about a France are these farmer’s markets as we call them in the US they have them, you know, during the week. And then on the weekends, depending on where you are or if it’s a larger city, you know, they’ll have them in different places and you can, you know, get to know it’s either farmers or its vendors who have gone to farms and, but not all of them are, um, are organic. Some of them, uh, might be industrial, but if you go to a market, you have more chances of getting, um, nonindustrial with or without organic, you know, uh, because they’re trying to just trying to sell them. They don’t have a grocery store that they’re connected with, so they’re just selling their, you know, their small farm vegetables and, um, eggs and meats.

Brad: 00:34:45 I’m wondering, so the, wondering about the average citizen, because here in America, whatever city, if you’re listening in Saint Louis or Sacramento or New York City or LA or Corpus Christi, Texas or anywhere, you can do a fabulous job as a, as a, as a huge enthusiast, right? You can order your, uh, salmon eggs over the internet and you’re a Wild Idea. Buffalo. We’ll ship anywhere, uh, in, in the freezer packs and have all kinds of delicious foods that you can eat from the finest quality meats and wherever you live. ah. Well, he now, oh, can you, can you identify the average person? Because here, the average person is so far removed. They, they, you know, they, they think the buffaloes, the animal on the nickel, and they, no exposure to the distinct offerings of even a farmer’s market. They probably drive by, uh, but they’re used to consuming a lot of fast food. Or if they do go to the market, they’re getting the best of the mass produced. And I know we have more population here than Switzerland, so some of this is going to be tough, but, um, I think we’re talking about a small segment of, um, uh, here in America, small segment of society is really on their game and they’re doing better than we ever have ever in terms of dietary quality and distinctive looking for the dark chocolate that’s, uh, you know, cacao beans is the first ingredient and staying away from this. So we have like that however many percent of people doing that, but then the average is so dismal. And even in the, uh, in the impoverished areas has been identified like they don’t even have access to vegetables. They can’t even find them if they wanted to in their community. So if we go take that average over to, uh, France, Switzerland, maybe even an urban environment that’s mixed socio socioeconomic, how do those people do?

Tania: 00:36:45 Well, part of it is location. Um, if you’re in the cities, you have access to a, uh, a market, you know, and, and in Bern where we live, which is the capital of of Switzerland, there’s a, well, there’s a market every day in the century, vegetables and that kind of thing. So for city dwellers, um, city dwellers have access to market almost daily in Switzerland. Um, you could probably say the same thing for most towns in France. Uh, not every well cities. Um, maybe a few times a week they have markets, smaller towns, it might just be once or twice. Um, but the average citizen, I think kind of, uh, what does rely on markets, you know, the farmer’s markets, uh, still to a degree and much more so than here in the US um, though I would say yes, 2018 people are used to the bigger grocery stores.

Tania: 00:37:50 It’s convenient, everything’s in one place. So there’s definitely a shift, um, to convenience. Efficiency. Definitely not, it’s not a happiness factor. And as I write in my, in the book, you know, my, my trips to the grocery store, uh, by car where just I would come back feeling exhausted and you know, unfulfilled it with the full, full, you know, cartload of, of um, groceries, but just not feeling that great about having taken the car. Um, when I would say, you know, in the, in the countryside, people are there, they live on a farm then, you know, um, so they’re eating at least a certain portion of their food, um, from their farm. In the suburbs. I would say that’s, that’s maybe the hardest thing because that might not necessarily be a market. The suburbs are closer to land that is commercialized where they set up, you know, the, the grocery stores, the industrial, you know, grocery stores.

Tania: 00:39:03 Um, but, uh, there’s one more aspect of Europe that we don’t quite have as well here, except for certain cities, which is public transport, public transportation. So, for example, if you live in the suburbs of a, of a city such as Bordeaux or Bern or, um, you know, Paris, you can get into the center on either street car or bus or subway, the metro, you know what, um, it’s really in Europe, I mean, they’re connected by train and bus and trams. So that’s very different here in the US you have to kind of get in your car to go anywhere unless you’re willing to walk, you know, 45 minutes to the grocery store, which again, that’s a tough one. You know, people are definitely, um, you know, uh, strapped for time here, so as everywhere, but it needs to be convenient. And the most convenient thing is the car in the US really, that’s how I, unless you live in New York City, which is great thing about New York, um, is the subway? But, um, you know, that that’s just not the same America as the rest of America. So that’s one big difference. I see. For sure.

Brad: 00:40:25 So the kids, Pre preteen kids here, we kind of have a sense of their experience. They’re starting to engage deeper and deeper into social media. Sometimes with a profound negative effects. They are not exercising much. We have studies from the Kaiser Family Foundation identifying that the average kid of that age is engaging with a screen six point something hours per day. Um, we have a failure rate for a basic fitness competency test in California, arguably one of the more progressive and healthy and good weather states. 40% of the kids fail to complete a mile run in, in a, in a, you know, pretty, pretty modest time. Like in other words, they can’t even jog for a mile. They have to walk and they fail this performance standard, uh, on the, on the standardized tests. What about in Europe? What are your kids getting that you feel is maybe superior from the average American experience and what are the kids like to,o

Tania: 00:41:24 well, um, in our neighborhood we’re in kind of a suburb of, um, of the capital. Um, little kids walk to school by themselves. I mean little, we’re kindergarden. First grade. Kindergarten. Yeah.

Brad: 00:41:39 They have ankle bracelets on for their partners to track them or not?

Tania: 00:41:42 Have big orange vests on so you can see them on the cute and you know, usually they’re not by themselves or with a sibling or a little little pack of three or four. If they’re a little bit bigger, say you know, fourth grade, six grade, whatever, they’re riding their bikes or their on their scooters. Um, AH, Yup. Nope, no parents. I don’t know where the parents are there, but they’re not walking their kids to school. PAUSE

Brad: 00:42:09 You were, you were saying about the Oh, the kids are walking to school, so you talked about the, the big kids. The parents are not around and then you can keep going.

Tania: 00:42:30 Okay. So yeah, and um, our children go to an international school, so the kids there, you know, from, from all over the place, there are very few Swiss children. Um, but, um, I’m always trying to ask, you know, what, what did that, the kids eating for breakfast? I was just curious. You know,

Brad: 00:42:54 Pop tarts, of course. Yeah.

Tania: 00:42:56 Well, unfortunately a lot of them are, are eating, you know, just a quick thing. Um, I don’t know. Granola bar, cereal or whatever. Um, I try to feed my girls the bacon and eggs in the morning or liverwurst, um, or you know, some, something solid that carries them through and they don’t even need that mid morning snack. That’s, that is figured in its scheduled into the school day.

Brad: 00:43:21 Well we call it, we’ve called it “nutrition” here forever. It was called “nutrition” here. I don’t know if every state, uh, the listeners can reference, but in California, when I grew up in elementary school, we had nutrition at 10 and then we had lunch at 12 or whatever. Huh. To get almost, almost zero nutrition reflecting now on what we’re eating. But it was a nice try.

Tania: 00:43:43 Well, so they, you know, the, the kids, um, well they have their snack and then the lunch, of course the school would like to, um, make sure that the cafeteria stays in business. Um, but to be honest, I send my girls to school with home lunches because it’s otherwise it’s too expensive. And you know, I know what I’m giving them. I’m giving them grass fed beef, you know, for their lunch, which will carry them through until, you know, later in the day till the, till they get back home. Um, and

Brad: 00:44:18 How about there, you told me offline about their outdoor experience and they’re kind of distinct from the, uh, high engagement of screen here. You’re, you’re sending out to, did they come to you and they say they were bored and you said, “go outside” and that solves the problem? Something like that you told me. It’s brilliant.

Tania: 00:44:38 I, um, I, I guess are, um, what we do is we have our 10 minutes a day so they can do their 10 minutes on their IPAD,

Brad: 00:44:47 10 minutes of screen a day, 10 minutes. That’s tight man. But love it.

Tania: 00:44:53 But it turns inevitably into 15 or 20. It meant sometimes a half an hour. But you know, compared to the statistics that I’ve seen, it’s still, you know, and they’re checking their email, they’re playing a couple of games or something like that. And then, uh, though my older daughter has more and more homework online, which drives me nuts, you know, I’d rather just have her write it down, but I understand, you know, that, um, everyone thinks they need to keep up and learn. And, um, meanwhile I didn’t see a computer screen till sixth grade, the first apple computers. And, um, I dunno, I just, I think, I think they learn better at, well, and we’ve, we’re learning more about the blue light, how it’s just absolutely ravaging the eyes. And for children, I just, you know, it’s a longer time in front of the screen over a lifetime that’s, you know, leading to,

Brad: 00:45:49 oh, mercy. You know, I never thought about that. It’s like, we know that you, if you live 70 or 75 or 80 years, you’re going to get the cataracts just from exposure to light over a lifetime. Right. And now we’re accelerating that too. We’re probably gonna see cataracts in today’s children when they’re 40 or 45 because of the intensity and the frequency of their light exposure is two, three, four times as much as someone who grew up in, you know, with sunlight and a little bit of evening screen use. Yeah. But no computers until you were in sixth grade or whatever.

Tania: 00:46:24 Right? Yeah. Well in macular degeneration is, um, is just skyrocketing. Apparently I’ve been listening to some, you know, I doctors talk about this and so there are a lot of issues not to mention the disruption of circadian rhythm, you know, especially if kids are watching television at night and they’re, you know, buzzed and wide awake, um, when they’re supposed to go to sleep, not getting enough sleep. And yeah, that whole,

Brad: 00:46:52 we always hear this term blue light. Do you have a good, can you explain that for the lay person?

Tania: 00:46:58 Oh Gosh. Well, the blue light, um, it’s, it’s the blue light is basically the color that we see at around noon. But if we’re watching or looking at a screen at nine o’clock at night, for example, you’re at the light. That spectrum of blue light that we get from our screens is telling our bodies, it’s 12 noon, it’s 12 noon. So of course it’s hard to go to sleep. You know, there’s a whole, there’s a lot about, um, quantum physics that I don’t understand and light spectrums. But as a photographer, I, I do understand that there are different colors of light. And you know, I tried to be conscious of that when I, when I photographed for the book. Um, but you know, I, we evolved in sunlight and we can,

Brad: 00:47:54 right? Well, right, and we don’t and firelight and candlelight, which is, uh, the orange or the red light on the UV spectrum. So the blue is not, it’s not blue. When we go out and look at the midday sun, it looks white, right? But it’s called blue. And you can reference the sky being blue because that’s how, that’s how the, um, let me see, I don’t want to butcher this for the science bit. The sky is made blue because of the, the blue light spectrum coming from the sun. And I guess that’s a good way to, um,

Tania: 00:48:25 there’s something about

Brad: 00:48:26 realize that it actually, it’s blue, but indoors when we turn on a light bulb or a screen, it’s not, it’s not blue light bulb. They’re white light bulbs, but they’re admitting what we’re going to call blue light. So hopefully you can reference that. And then your comment that, um, the screen is like the mid-day sun, they can measure this. Like the intensity of the light experience is like mid day Sun. Yeah. And therefore it’s triggering your genes and hormones to think that it’s midday and this other, the kids are wired when they go to sleep. Well, and we used the human see adults,

Tania: 00:48:59 Right. And we used to have tungsten light bulbs, you know, and I think they need to bring those back, which is just, you know, the, the light bulb that has kind of an orange glow.

Brad: 00:49:10 Oh, just so the old time round light bulb that’s now been replaced with the swirly swirly ice cream cone? Yes. Tell me the difference.

Tania: 00:49:17 Well, there are a lot of differences and um, trying to keep them all straight, but the tungsten isshowing Uh, it’s an orange orangy glow, whereas these, these sort of ice cream swirl, new fandango, um, light bulbs have, I believe some of them have, um, certain gases in them that are really poisonous if it breaks. But some of these are led light emitting diode, so they’re actually what you can’t see it, but they’re flickering, the flickering too fast for us to actually visually see. But the brain, um, sees it, if you will. And, um, you know, some people’s brains can’t handle that. And uh, like a lot of the hyperactivity comes from fluorescent lights and LEDs that are, you know, flickering and it’s just too much. Um, uh, it’s too much for the brain, you know, and, and, um, unfortunately a lot of people, well you don’t notice it and it’s kind of a something that affects your eyesight over time.

Tania: 00:50:29 And then things that are really, um, not normal become, seem normal because they’re so common, you know, poor eyesight, Myopia, you know, the eyes elongating to try to make up for all the, the weird light signals that we’re sending to our, our eyes. Um, so that’s something and actually someone who’s really into this quantum physics and thinks our health is deteriorating because of our lack of sunlight is, um, a neurosurgeon named Dr Jack Kruse, who is very interesting to listen to and, and probably quite, I think, controversial, but a very, very interesting. And he has some interesting messages about, about light. And you know, everyone wears sunglasses. If you go outside, you put on sunglasses, you’re never really getting any, any light in your eyes except for that blue light. That’s 12 noon light. Um, so anyway, I try to limit the time on the screens and ,of course, meanwhile I’m saying, you know, get off your screen and I’m, you know, working on my screen to get this book out. Um, so that’s, that’s really tough for them to come to terms with and for me too, you know.

Brad: 00:51:47 Yeah. I made a joke on another podcast where I said, yeah, I’m really strict about this. And every night at 10 o’clock, I text my kids to get off their screens. Right. So because we do so much texting in the house now the doors are closed, people are engaged with their own screens. We’re losing that aspect of family time as well. Yeah.

Tania: 00:52:07 Yeah. No screens at the table. I mean, no, nothing at the table.

Brad: 00:52:10 Yeah. Right. Right. So those who does nice built in rules. Right? Yeah. So the part about the sunglasses being, um, an objection as well, the way I understand it as, especially first thing in the morning, the sun’s not too intense where it’s going to mess you up. If you have indirect exposure, obviously you don’t want to look at the sun. Ever. Listeners remember that. But if you expose your eyeballs directly to sun in the morning, that is a nice setup of your circadian rhythm, uh, triggering the proper hormone flow in the serotonin spike and all that great stuff. And that is setting you up for a peaceful evening of sleep that night because you exposde yourself to direct sun. But if you’re doing the sunglasses, the subway, and then into the workplace, you’re missing missing that opportunity and therefore you’re not getting the right signals and then the right hormone flow in the evening because you’ve just been blasted with this steady source of indoor light. Yeah. So especially with the kids after dark, um, I imagine that 10 minutes of screen that you allow is sometime before dark?

Tania: 00:53:18 Yeah. It’s right after school. They have their snack than they do. They’re there 10 minutes.

Brad: 00:53:23 Yeah. And drags into 22. They can watch one Netflix episode without commercials of a Sitcom. So there you go.

Tania: 00:53:29 Um, and then they go off to do their homework. And my girls love to read books, not, um, kindle or anything, just a real book in the hand. So they do that. They could get a lot more outdoor time. I wish they would. Sometimes I send them out to the trampoline. Um, [inaudible] yeah, I love the,

Brad: 00:53:48 I had a trampoline grown up in my backyard and it was the centerpiece of the culture, the community, the friends. We were out there all the time. It was just the greatest toy ever. A few injuries and all that, but we didn’t have the net around it. Like today’s trampoline. It was dug into the ground and you just jumped on that thing. We tried to jump over a high jump bar and a crazy times. Yeah, yeah.

Tania: 00:54:12 Oh, so that’s that. Ours has a net of course. Um, but yeah, it’s just, um, it’s hard to even, you know, it’s hard to get kids outside the, we’re lucky enough to have a garden and sometimes we can convince them in the summer to help pick some berries and there berries. Um, but I think, um, yeah, getting that morning light and that’s something that also Dr Jack Kruse talks about, um, really that it’s the, um, it’s the, the particular colors that the purple and the red light of the morning and then at sunset that make our, I’m not sure what it is exact something in the Mitochondria that the DNA, the things spin faster, almost like, um, kind of having this anti aging effect, whereas, you know, well, light when it hits us and all matter is, is light slowed down. So if you, you know, we’re really just light and energy slowed down,

Brad: 00:55:24 swirling mass of Adam’s according to Deepak Chopra, right? Not Physical beings. Well

Tania: 00:55:28 he’s, he, I mean, he’s right in a way that, you know, it, it, it’s, um, we’ve, we are light slowed down. I don’t know how else to explain it, but there are certain spectrums, like I said, or parts of the spectrum, the red and the purple light that, that hit us and that make everything spin faster. Um, and when you don’t have that, you, you know, you age faster. So it’s kind of the opposite. It’s, it’s a little bit confusing. I have to listen over and over again to these, um, this sort of, these theories. But there is something to it I think, you know, we’re not really getting, um, and, and grounding to the ground, you know, really getting your feet in the grass when it’s moist and letting the negative, um, electrons from the first pass through through us.

Brad: 00:56:24 Same with fresh air versus stale air.

Tania: 00:56:27 Yeah.

Brad: 00:56:27 The negative ions are energized molecular particles in the air and they’re emanating from the earth. The earth is magnetized and it’s, it’s dispensing energy into your bare feet. If you have shoes on or you’re walking on cement, you’re not getting it right. They call it earthing. But also the, uh, I’m, I’m fascinated by the concept of the fresh, they were fresh air being highly energized with negative ions, negative being the, the chemical term, but it very positive thing, right? Yeah. So negative ions are the ones full of energy. And then positive ions are what are found in tightly enclosed metal spaces such as a car, airplane, a space capsule, uh, internal office environment. And so the air is literally devoid of energy compared to fresh air. So when you’re out at the, especially by a large body of water in the mountains, when it’s windy, these are the most energized places on earth, uh, visa vi. The places that have the least energy, including pollution in an urban environment, has a de-energized air. So you can get these negative ion generating air filters and put one in your room and get the benefit of that energized air from a artificially, but it’s still exactly the same chemically as the fresh air outside. So everyone go out there and get a, uh, uh, an air purifier that has an ionizer attached to it. And then you’re going to improve your situation. And this came about because the astronauts were training in the space capsule, the early astronauts, and they’d become inexplicably fatigued after a short time inside the enclosed metal space. Even know that air was being pumped in whatever. And they finally realized that there was the molecular composition of the air because of the metal enclosure. And so they installed these ionizing machines in there. The problem was solved. And that’s where they first discovered the dangers. We don’t even, you know, talk about this stuff when we’re, uh, building subways and selling people cars and building a brand new office building with, uh, the wonderful, uh, conditioned air that has, you can’t even open the windows and most buildings or hotels.

Tania: 00:58:35 Right? Yeah, that’s true. Well, and also with the astronauts, how many times a day are they seeing the sunrise and the sunset? Too many. So they are just accelerated aging. Yeah, we were, we did not evolve in space. We evolved on the earth, which adds a certain, you know, the 24 hour cycle. And so I can, I can see how that back, yeah. Um, yeah, at, well in something else Doctor Jack Kruse talks about is he thinks, um, you know, something like obesity is really a, um, a function of not getting the right amount and the right type of light into the eye because that’s where it all starts. It’s in the eye and that sends all, it starts. The cascade of hormonal messaging, which you know, is, is very interesting because we do spend all our time either in front of these blue light screens or with sunglasses outside, or we’re just inside all day. So we’re not getting the light and we’re not getting those signals.

Tania: 00:59:41 And so one thing, you know, I, I talk about in the book is that how people go to the markets or on foot or on bike. They’re outside. They have small refrigerators, refrigerators, they need to get outside the small, you know, usually smaller apartments. People are really social. They, they get out, they’re outside. So, you know, there is something to, to that, um, eating Alfresco, you know, eating outside, outdoors, grounding, uh, that the whole community, um, exchange, uh, walking to and from or biking to and from the market. And these are all things that we might not do if we have the convenience of a car and a big store, you know, that you drive to and with the artificial lights beaming into your eyes. So there, there are those kinds of differences that, you know, we don’t, I don’t really think about here in the US as much. Yeah.

Brad: 01:00:40 The light thing is interesting. I’m thinking of the incredible book Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival and they’re talking about this constant exposure to light and prolonged days that are lit up because they, the blue light indoors from the light bulb and the screen is akin to sunlight. So we are in modern life making an endless summer in terms of our genetic, uh, signaling. So we always think it’s summer, no matter where we live, especially in the high latitudes where there, you know, you’re, you’re getting home from work and it’s getting dark at four 15 in Stockholm and then you’re, you’re lit up all night playing with the screen and doing whatever. So if it’s always summer, um, our historical genetic experience is to binge on sugar, the ripen berries of the time and fattened up for the winter. This is, this is a genetically optimal, a hardwired into our genes because of the, the difficult long winters where there’s not enough food. We want to have an extra layer of body fat and then humans would generally lose that when the weather changed and all that. We’d slow down in the winter and get fat and sit around. And so now we’re that way all the time. It’s, it’s endless summer and less cravings for sugar. We know from sleep research that um, the, the, um, the messing up the sleep hormones and getting sleep deficient is going to spike the appetite hormones and dysregulate the fat burning and fat storage hormones did the extent that you’re going to crave sugar and stored as fat. So I think that’s, that’s what Jack Kruse is onto and many others identifying these problems that have nothing to do with your willpower and your discipline and you shouldn’t eat after dark. And it seems like this conversation is going in the direction of like we have to purposely d tech ourselves or r or d efficient size, our experience and Europe’s behind in that way. So they’re way healthier than us because they have to ride their bike to the market and go buy another green pepper tomorrow because they didn’t go to Costco. And get six of them in a shrink wrap thing that came from Chile in February to North America. Right?

Tania: 01:02:58 Yeah.

New Speaker: 01:02:58 So we got to go backwards. We’ve got to go back to Europe and back to your, regain our health in a backwards direction. Okay.

Brad: 01:03:06 So the book is sitting here in between us. We haven’t opened it up and dug deep into it yet. But what’s cool is you get these many of these points across about the return to ancestral traditions, especially when it comes to cooking and wine and all that kind of thing. But you, you talk about your health struggles, your health journey or increasing awareness in the midst of this, uh, French cooking immersion.

Tania: 01:03:38 Yeah. So that’s, um, I, I’m trying to take people on the journey with me. I know a lot of people have health struggles of their own and I’m hoping that this will help maybe reveal to people some ideas, some concepts and hacks of how to, you know, improve their health.

Brad: 01:04:00 The hack is to slow down the, the antithesis of the word hack. The hack is a shortcut or a optimization, but that’s the ultimate hack is slow, slow, but slow down,

Tania: 01:04:11 slow down and do it yourself and find the joy in, in cooking if possible when possible. Um, it really is a pleasure if your fear feeding, you know, your family and you know, it’s, it’s good for them and you source the ingredients. And even if it’s only once a week, you know, when you kind of prepare meals for the rest of the week, though I’m, I don’t do that, um, necessarily, but, um, uh, I, because I like to use fresh ingredients and, but, but something about flavor is also that I talk about is using fresh ingredients, using the right tools. Um, you know, something, a concept that, um, the French use is, uh, called terroir, um, about local. You could, you could translate it as sort of local flavor, you know, um, every, um, every wine and every cheese comes from a certain place and taste the way it does because of where it’s from, whether it’s the altitude, the climate, and the soil, the microbiome of the soil. Uh, Eh, you know, the latitude, especially for wine, wine really grows in certain latitudes of north of the northern and southern hemispheres. Um, and you know, I think that’s catching on in the US is sort of local flavor. Um, artisinal cheeses, dairy, for example,

Brad: 01:05:44 Chocolate too. I want all the feo chocolate tour and they say that, um, the, the beans take a flavor of pineapple, you know, from the tropical environment or whatever. There’s an influence from the soil and, and every batch is different and all that wild stuff.

Tania: 01:06:01 Definitely, definitely. And, and again, um, well a lot of the people in that sort of ancestral health realm talk about the microbiome and, you know, we have microbiome everywhere as it turns out in our, you know, gums and our brains and our on our skin and not just in the gut.

Brad: 01:06:18 Oh, right. The bacteria is mostly in the gut and we hear about the 12 trillion cells of bacteria in our gut. But it’s, it’s in the brain and throughout the body as well?

Tania: 01:06:28 Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think, um, I think also, you know, we don’t like to think of it this way, but we’re exposed to viruses and parasites and all sorts of things all the time. And it depends on how healthy your microbiome is in all of these places that you can ward off disease or not. Um, and, and again, you know, with processed foods, there’s no living.

Brad: 01:06:56 You frowned when yoUSaid processed foods. I saw that our youtube viewers are going, she doesn’t like processed foods. What’s your problem?

Tania: 01:07:05 Yeah, I think it’s, you know, the, the fresh ingredients, the real ingredients, things that you, where you may have even talked to the farmer. These are the kinds of things you can get them into your life and into your kitchen. It’s such a pleasure to, to use real products and, and not have to look at a label on something, you know, that’s just, just put the boxes away. One ingredient, you know, it’s prunes or it’s whatever, whatever it is, rice, if you’re eating rice or a sack of potatoes, um, you know, or, or grass fed beef, organ meats. These are sort of the things that I, I talk about and I have divided my book into different chapters on each kind of meat, how to prepare pork in different ways. Um, offal. The organ meats, beef, lamb, and, and there is a chapter on vegetables and of course desserts, which everyone likes dessert.

Brad: 01:08:10 The, the insight about the French culture is really enjoy and prioritize their eating. So when you’re talking about a dessert, but it’s a homemade preparation that you did with your children with love and laughter and put the, put the time and energy irritate you went down to the farmer’s market to buy the fresh lemons to make the lemon meringue pie and oh yeah, there’s a bunch of sugar in it and it’s going to bump you out of Ket. And all that terrible stuff. But now we’re starting to, I feel like we’re back peddling from this intense battle where we’re shouting down the naysayers and battling with, with, uh, you know, fists clenched against the vegans because they’re so wrong and were so right. And we’re, I think we’re all taking a few steps backward and trying to get more reasonable and say, hey, enjoy your meal time. Um, if it’s going to be dessert, make it count. Don’t wolf something down a drumstick from the frozen package at seven 11. But if you’re going to go make some dessert, look in the book, try some of that stuff. It’s pretty darn good. We had some dessert, didn’t we before we began the podcast in the morning hours. I had some of my chocolate mousse.

Brad: 01:09:18 It was, it was fabulous.

Tania: 01:09:19 Just fabulous with that whip cream.

Brad: 01:09:21 That’s crankin crank thumbs up all around. I don’t care if you’re, I mean, it was, it was key to, to happen to be so you can make some good choices too, if you’re, if you’re big on this. But I think the bigger inside I wanted to point out, I was like, these people know how to live that are food enthusiasts and that’s probably getting them past the negative aspects of consuming that bread with the freshest, purest olive oil and balsamic vinegar that they’re dipping it in. Right?.

Tania: 01:09:49 Well, you know, I, in the book I, I, the recipes that I have for desserts for example, are, are actually low sugar, uh, for the most part or you can try your other sweeteners. Um, but you know, it’s, if, if, if, if the meal is rich, I’m rich enough, whether it’s the dessert or the main course, you know, with enough good fats, I’m not the hydrogenated or the, um, you know, ultra processed vegetable oils. Um, if you’ve got your good traditional fats, and I’m talking tallow, lard, butter, um, goose fat and duck fat, duck fat is huge in the southwest of France. Um, and delicious. You know, these are the things that will satisfy you. Use them in the desmerts and then you don’t need all the sugar or use them in the main course and, and the desserts. Um, but you, you then you’d need, well, less food.

Tania: 01:10:50 Um, you just eat less but more high quality foods that are really rich, like your chocolate mousse from this morning that was very rich and you just, you can’t eat that much of it and there was no sugar in it. Even, um, it’s the richness of these fats too. And I, I go into this, you know, at length in the book, that’s what satisfies, you know, you’re, you’re, if you’re not corrupted by the frown, frown, processed foods, you know, your, your palette will just really enjoy the, the richness. And that’s, you know, I talk about that with the, the French paradox. It’s not really a paradox is it?

Brad: 01:11:33 It’s the French paradox because paradox being that they have lowest rates of heart disease, but have among the highest fat intake in the diet, but it’s identified as a nutritious, natural fats.

Tania: 01:11:43 Right. Well, so, but that’s not apparent paradox as you were saying. It’s a, it’s an advantage that

Brad: 01:11:49 We’re going to rename it right now. I mean, the French paradox is a, it’s kind of like a medical term or a scientific phenomenon. It’s a real thing that people keep talking about ?

Tania: 01:11:59 It was called it was, it was called out coined in a study.

Brad: 01:12:02 Right. So we’re re renaming that sheet right now on this show. It’s the French advantage. It’s a French, they eat more fat. Um, what do you say to the uh, uh, objectioners that don’t want you eating that fat because it’s going to cause heart disease. I mean, I’m sure you encounter that, especially in Europe and wherever else.

Tania: 01:12:25 Yeah, that’s, that’s really tough because we have been conditioned over decades to believe that fat is bad and you know, high cholesterol and all these, these issues that

Brad: 01:12:36 especially duck fat, that’s disgusting.

Tania: 01:12:38 Oh, it’s fabulous.

Brad: 01:12:40 Until you try it

Tania: 01:12:42 and all that butter got, you know, do your eggs and butter and wow, that is just the best. Um, uh, and grass fed butter if possible. Um, but, but

Brad: 01:12:53 Not a little butter, like a substantial amount to where the egg tastes like butter better than, I mean, I, I’ve, I’ve been doing that late or I’m just throwing a little more on and it makes a big difference and it’s so satisfying. Like you’re talking about. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a big difference. Fine.

Tania: 01:13:09 And a little bit of salt, you know, sea salt or Himalayan salt. I mean, you know, it’s so satisfying and you just go through your morning and you think, oh, it’s lunchtime. You know, rather than an hour later, just scrounging for something, you know, after you’ve had your little up granola or

Brad: 01:13:28 cottage cheese with blueberries on top of yogurt or what have you, some orange juice.

Tania: 01:13:33 And I know people, people think that they’re, you know, they’re doing themselves a service by having the low fat and few of those blueberries. And I, I just feel like, you know, give it a try. I mean, all you can do, you can’t really change people’s opinion. You can give them the facts, the research. But you know, I can say from my family’s point of view, for example, it’s just anecdotal, but you know, and we started to really cut out the sugars and the more refined flours and process things that, and adding in those fats, more butter and more duck fat, uh, more lard, tallow, you know, we, um, we were feeling better. My husband dropped about 10 pounds. He didn’t know he had, um, my girls were able to concentrate better at school. Um, and there were fewer tantrums when we dropped the gluten for the younger one.

Tania: 01:14:34 It was, uh, a really, um, I think a big issue, the processed, you know, flours back gets in the morning and cereal. We’ve transitioned now to the bacon and eggs for the most part or liverwurst in the mornings. And it’s, uh, you know, it’s a really good start to the day and, um, you know, we feel satisfied. I feel much better. I, you know, I used to eat, um, one of those, I don’t know, it was called friends cereals, um, you know, in grad school with rice milk. And I would come crashing down during my, during my class and um, you know, my trade law class and I would be falling asleep not just because it was trade lot but because it was because of the rice milk and yeah, just, just, yeah. So it’s a little, it’s a lot different when you have a really good meal that carries you through the night or through the morning or whatever.

Brad: 01:15:34 So you said give it a try in passing. And I think that’s a profound suggestion because we’re exposed to so much information wondering if this authority is credible or not. Yeah, I know you’ve done a ton of research and we’ve talked so much about your study and your background, your, your, your unbiased. I mean you came into this from vegetarian world and health problems that made you go on this long journey of searching and exploring and testing out. So if we can encourage the listener to do that, wow. T test out the book, you can pick and choose. I know it’s 600 something pages, but it’s easy to dive into how to cook the organ meat section. Cause I’m so intimidated by doing stuff like that. And I tried liver, it doesn’t taste that good. But if we can figure out creative ways and get, get some competency there. Wow. Yeah. Worthwhile.

Tania: 01:16:28 Definitely. I think so. It’s, I try to make all the meats and, including the organ meats, approachable, um, you know, and I

Brad: 01:16:36 Hopefully the animal’s dead before you approach, then it’s approachable.

Tania: 01:16:40 Well that’s a whole nother issue of, you know, the, the moral of vegetarian versus, you know, but I have to say that, you know, there’s a, there’s also a chapter on, on butchery. I did a butchery apprenticeship. And you know, when you, when you’re breaking down a carcass, you really understand respect for the animal and you really want to try to use every piece of it from the organs to the fat to every piece of meat. And even the bones, you know, for your, your bone broth. Um, it’s, it’s really, um, when you kind of really dig in with your hands and you really touch these, the meat for example, are the other organs. You realize, wow, this is, this is the most nourishing stuff for me and my family and this animal gave its life and I don’t want to waste, you know, any bit of it. Um, so, and I, I talk about that in the book too, about rendering your own fat and you know, just having, having that as a tool, the, the, the different fats that you can use for your, your cooking. But that’s definitely something, you know, respecting by eating nose to tail, we’re really respecting ourselves, our nutritional needs and the, the life of the animal, frankly. So that’s, sorry,

Brad: 01:18:08 Brian McAndrew, the guy mastering this recording said something similar on his podcast where if you’re going to take an animal’s life, you better, you better lead a purposeful and meaningful life yourself. You know, you don’t, don’t go, don’t let it go to waste by sitting on the couch watching too much Netflix until midnight, you know, make, make, make it count and get some energy. Go do something. I love that. So this feels like, uh, the conclusion of part one of seven podcasts that we have with you. There’s so many topics we can dig into and I appreciate your insights, the cultural learnings of America and Europe from Tania. Good stuff. The book is the real deal. You have to go get this. If you’re interested in this ancestral living in French culture, the Bordeaux Kitchen, it’s called and good luck on your book tour spreading the word and we can also find

Tania: 01:19:01 yup. And Bordeaux

Brad: 01:19:02 oh great. Okay. Thanks for talking. Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your and we would also love if you could leave a rating and review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars and it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.



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