Here is a different flavor of show, as I become (for the most part) the interviewee in a wild and wacky session with the dynamic duo from the Trail Runner Nation podcast, Dr. Don Freeman and Scott Warr.

These guys have a super popular show, featuring nonstop repartee between the pair, as well as interesting guests in the world of ultramarathon running. Dr. Don is an absolute marvel of a human specimen; a busy chiropractor and entrepreneur, he runs in his spare time, and runs. And runs. He has completed countless 100-mile ultraraces and an epic event in the Pacific Northwest of 240 miles of nonstop running. 

After this show in the summer of 2018, Don was headed to the French Alps to compete in a 6-day ultramarathon run of 225 miles and 90,000 feet of climbing over the highaltitude trails traversing les Alps. Yes, these ultrarunning folks are an amazing breed. They set a comfortable pace and keep moving for hours and hours and even into multiday racing. Don’s strategy is to sleep one hour per every eight of running! Let’s see, that works out to three hours of sleep per day In this show, we talk about our shared appreciation for a relaxed and intuitive approach to athletic goals, the inspiration for the name Get Over Yourselffor this podcast and the importance of getting over ourselves in everyday life, the nature of motivation and the influence of genetics, the importance of drinking only the healthiest and cleanest wine, especially as an athlete. Wine? Don’t whine, we indeed engage in engage in our specialty of tangents, asides, interruptions, and circle backs. Many podcasts have a distinct pattern of interview questions and start-to-finish progression, but sometimes it’s fun to just let it flow and see where the conversation takes you. I think you will enjoy connecting with these guys. This show is syndicated on the fabulous Trail Runner Nation podcast, hosted by in their fabulous Rocklin, CA studios.  


This guy, Freeman, is going to the French Alps to compete in a six-day ultra-marathon.  [05:39]

Podcasts are opening a whole new way of communicating. [07:09] 

How limiting is your own brain to performance? [12:10] 

Practicing doesn’t necessarily translate to the competitive arena. [16:29] 

The work that a long-distance cyclist does, doesn’t even come close to what our hunter/gatherer ancestors did. [17:41] 

What is the theme of Brad’s Get Over Yourself podcasts? [18:57] 

Social media usually shows people at their best, ignoring the fact that sometimes we fail. [21:36] 

Some of the GPS features can inhibit your ability to think on your own, however there are some great apps for racing. [26:29] 

Screens are dominating our lives. [30:05] 

Performance on cognitive test slows down when you are lacking sleep. [33:34] 

Brad details what his experience was in becoming a pro triathlete. [38:09] 

Brad talks about how he “got over himself.” [47:28] 

It’s really important through for the duration of your life to have some compelling competitive goals, whatever that is. [56:30]
Brad talks about his speed golf fete. [57:21] 

Make sure you are doing what you are doing for a good reason. [01:01:16] 

How would you advise an athlete to recognize comfort zone versus Wimp? [01:05:46] 



Download Episode MP3

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author an athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 00:00:32 Greetings listeners, welcome to a different flavor of a show. This time I become, for the most part, the interviewee in a wild and wacky session with the dynamic duo from the epic trail runner nation podcast. If you’re an endurance athlete, especially a trail runner. These guys, Dr. Freeman and Scott War have got it going on. They’d been cranking out awesome podcasts for the trail runner community building that trail winter community for many, many years. They’re very smooth and professional. They have a killer studio. I’ve been there many times to appear on their show and this time we got together with no agenda, just sat around, put all the fancy high tech equipment on and started talking. So I think you’ll enjoy it and I talk a lot about my background, the inspiration for the get over yourself podcast, the importance of getting over ourselves in everyday life.

Brad: 00:04:39 The influence of genetics, not only on things like your performance, whether you can do a high jumper, a hundred mile run, but also on your sources of motivation. Are there genetic components to that? We kept going off on different tangents, which is our specialty. We talked about the importance of drinking only the healthiest and cleanest wines, especially as an athlete. Wine? Hey, don’t whine. I’m explaining this show as advertised as an assortment of tangents, asides, interruptions, circle backs, and lots of fun. So if you’re used to those podcasts that have that distinct pattern of interview questions and a start to finish progression, sometimes it’s fun to sit back and just let it flow as you commute home or go on your jog, monitoring your maximum aerobic heart rate. So check out the trail runner nation podcast. If that type of activity interests you. We syndicated the show on their network and oh my gosh, you got to get a load of this guy Don Freeman.

Brad: 00:05:39 After the show, he headed out to the French Alps to compete in a six day ultra marathon run 225 miles with 90,000 feet of vertical elevation gain over the high altitude trails transversing the Alps. Yeah. These ultra running folks are an amazing breed. They basically start out, the gun goes off, they lock into their comfortable pace there. Striding their pace, walking up the mountains, they’re jogging on the flats. They got their routine going. They got their food, they got their provisions. They’re transporting by backpack and get this Don’s strategy for this lengthy race. I mean, it’s nonstop race. You go and then you go until you finish. He’s hoping to finish in five days, but his strategy is to sleep for one hour per every eight hours of running. That’s right. Three hours of sleep a day, and the rest of the time you are around the clock.

Brad: 00:06:38 Just keep on moving one step at a time. I know it’s not something that everyone wants to do, but I think it’s fascinating to get the insights from people that pushed the very limits of human endurance and human performance. So we’re going to have Don on the podcast for an interesting show. I told him upon his return from le Al see how it went. Thank you for listening to this wacky, wild conversation with Doctor Don Freeman and Scott War of the trail runner nation podcast enjoy.

Trailrunner: 00:07:09 Here’s what I think is interesting and attractive about podcasts is that it calls back to the times before television and radio where people just sat around a table or by a shade tree and talked, sat on the porch light on the porch

Brad: 00:07:22 and talk like Mayberry RFD and like that. That’s, that’s a good insight.

New Speaker: 00:07:27 That’s true. And I think we missed that and I think we’re, we’re all going down the road looking at our phones or were tuning out because we’re tuning in to something else, but we really crave just being a community and being with one another and exchanging ideas and listening. And I really think that’s what podcast allow is for that, that communication again, and they’re free and that most of them, yeah, but you know what?

Brad: 00:07:50 It’s also, there’s a little bit of a breakdown of the performance and the posturing aspect of mainstream media. So when I go on the today show to promote my book or something, I got four and a half minutes. I’ve been drilled in my talking points by my PR person who’s holding my hand until I walk out onto stage. And then they say, so tell us about the ketogenic diet. Well, it’s really low in carbs and your burn fat and you get a six pack. Like check this out. You know, everything’s scripted and it’s very superficial and it’s not, it’s not real where at least in it, my ambition in the podcast is like, let’s talk about some difficulties that athletes have training and balancing their busy life and making sure they’re supporting their kids on soccer Saturday and stuff and things that aren’t going to come out when you have, um, uh, a dressed up performance and that’s what we’ve been programmed brainwashed with our entire lives is bullshit celebrities telling us how great life is and brushing over anything that doesn’t match their brand. Tiger Woods, shout out Mofo. Why are you friends with Trump? Seriously, yesterday I found out buddies with Trump and he played golf with Trump and they asked him about, and he’s like, I’m too tired of, he’s played a big tournament. I don’t want to talk to something like that. Yeah. It’s like, come on dude. This is not a political show so we won’t go there. But Michael Jordan never stood for anything in the history of his career except for Nike and his brands. And enough of that about that already. Now we’ve got athletes coming on and talking for an hour or two hours unplugged and getting real. And that’s where, that’s where I, that’s the value that I like is getting to know someone and what they’re really all about instead of their brand.

Speaker 4: 00:09:26 Because there’s no script here. Obviously we’re, we’re at trail running podcasts. We’ve talked about why

Brad: 00:09:31 we were down the trail where we’re down the trail two miles down the trail. I haven’t even started the podcast and we’re talking for 15 minutes. Uh, yeah.

New Speaker: 00:09:40 So Brad, did you really go on the Today Show first? I got it.

Brad: 00:09:44 I got to tell you guys, you got a video of this thing. Yeah. You need to start videoing. You’re that big time already. Cause I mean you see ritual, look at us, you see ritual, Tim Ferriss now, now all the podcasts are on video and there’s two guys talking into a mic. Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan video. Nobody’s bigger than Joe. Yeah, he’s got 500,000 views of his video of two guys talking. Beautiful. But that extra element of the facial expressions and the raucus laughter that we shield our mouths from the microphone so that the listener won’t here. You’ve got to get that on Youtube. What was your question, sir?

Trailrunner: 00:10:12 Were you really on the today show?

Brad: 00:10:14 No. Oh, so it was a hypothetical example.

Trailrunner: 00:10:16 It was on Oprah.

Brad: 00:10:18 Mark Sisson was for our Keto Reset Diet Book that I’m the coauthor. Mark’s the prominent guy there. He got on the Today Show for six minutes, did a fantastic job and help the lady out with her, uh, health goals. And she was trying Keto. And so it was a great little introduction to what it’s all about. But if you want to know more, you go on youtube and watch an hour long conversation or listen to the podcast that I do every week on it where I’m talking to real people and you know, one guy in Hong Kong was was 400 pounds and now he’s 189 and these are, you know, amazing things that we can dig deep and get to on a, on a whole different level than listened to the celebrities talk more.

Trailrunner: 00:10:54 So Primal Endurance podcast, episode one, it’s where you and M ark both lay out the ketogenic diet and how being a fat burner is more efficient and more effective than uh, you know, eating a bunch of foil sugar goos right. That is the best podcast because it really just lays everything out and it’s, it’s just educational. I’ve listened to that more than once.

Brad: 00:11:19 Right on go listen to show number one. I like that. Yeah. That’s all you should listen to. And the rest of it’s just blather and then show high Brad Kearns again, ready to tell you some more show or an older show, number one.

Trailrunner: 00:11:29 There is gold in them there are podcasts I’ve listened to. Episode three I think is Timmy Olsen. So I mean there you’re right there with the, uh,

Brad: 00:11:36 I’m right there with him on, um, at my old lady and then he dropped me.

Trailrunner: 00:11:39 Oh No, just kidding. Hey, so you, you did mention earlier this, get over yourself. Is this a, this is a new podcast that you’re starting and tell us a little bit about that.

Brad: 00:11:49 Why, thank you Scott, you’re now on the today show my four minutes, my piece of paper back that I scratched over, held a big sign in front of your face. Ask me about, get over yourself.

Trailrunner: 00:12:01 I have it in my show. Oh my gosh.

Brad: 00:12:03 Go here we go. And we’ll be right back after commercial.

Trailrunner: 00:12:06 Why did you pick the name? Get over here cause you could have picked any name you want it. You picked that.

Brad: 00:12:10 Oh thank you. Um, I have to give it, give credit to my man Eddie boy, Eddie the Ashcan man, former iron man triathlete and listening to the show in Newport Beach. And he was a star quarterback in high school and he was trying to win the game for his team. Rio Americano throw in touchdown passes to his brother all the time and he was coming from behind and about to do this triumph and victory. And he threw a pick six. So for new trail runners that don’t know football, he threw a pass to the wrong color shirt. That guy caught it and ran to the opposite end zone for a touchdown. So he lost the game for his team. He was crushed, he was devastated. He couldn’t sleep. He woke up in the middle of the night and started practicing throwing the ball through the tire just like old times. And then hitting the canvas backdrop, dropping to the ground.

Trailrunner: 00:12:53 So Rocky Balboa’s, it’s rocky Balboa stuff

Brad: 00:12:56 middle of the night, right? Yeah. He’s just, you know, working through his disappointment is anger and trying to get better. And so you hear this repeating thud sound against the backdrop in the middle of the night. And so his father comes out who was a longtime football coach to star in his own right back in the day and he opens up the door and he gave like the best piece of fatherly advice that you could ever imagine in that situation. And if you, if you can guess at that time when here’s this kid, you know, seemingly doing everything that would touch your heart as a, as a parent that he’s trying so hard and he wants to be so good that he’s throwing passes and his dad comes down to the porch and says, “Ed, get over yourself.”

Trailrunner: 00:13:39 A wise, wise father.

Brad: 00:13:41 Uh, yeah, it’s a little risky, right, right. The father knew at that time what the kid needed to get back into that proper quarterback, champion, competitor mindset was to get over yourself. You threw a pick six, you tried hard, come back the next game. He, if he kept talking, he would’ve said, look man, so what, you threw a pick six, you tried get back up practices tomorrow, you know, practices Monday morning, get ready to bring the heat and don’t be afraid to throw those passes down the middle because that’s, you know, that’s the quarterback mindset that’s necessary. Can be apprehensive.

Trailrunner: 00:14:11 You need to take risks to be successful. once you fall on the trail and you trip over something and catch your toe. You can be afraid to continue to go down the trail after you pick yourself

Brad: 00:14:20 or take it out hard, right? Like the Chanting going out and blowing doors off the western states 100 course and coming up to mile 90 and having his kidney shutdown and being air lifted to Roseville hospital. But it’s like that dude went for it, man. And he was on record pace and he made it to mile 90 and most people would come and give him his condolences that he failed because he failed across the finish line and break the record. But it’s like no way man, that dude flew 90 miles across the Sierra and he gave all his body had and he got airlifted out. I’d be giving him a standing ovation when the helicopter took off from 49 crossing, you know.

Trailrunner: 00:14:57 Anyway, I’m gonna to is such a legend.

Brad: 00:15:00 He’s certain he’s a guy who was stronger than his body, his mind and his, you know, his, his competitive intensity.

Trailrunner: 00:15:07 I’ve often wondered that if we could somehow take, you know, say my brain and put it in in you, what kind of athlete would you be? How limiting is my own brain to performance or, or vice versa. If I could have your world championship third in the world, professional triathlete brain in my head, what could I do with this body? Where is my weak point? Yeah. You know, body or mind, I don’t know. And if you could somehow exchange them, it’d be interesting to find out what’s holding what back.

Trailrunner: 00:15:37 Does that make sense on what’s his name? Jordan Peele did that in the movie, right? I helped me, I get out. You see the movie get out. It was nominated for Academy Awards. What the premise this last year, Don doesn’t watch movies, movies. He still hasn’t seen Star Wars.

Brad: 00:15:52 No I haven’t. I’m not against him either. I never got into that stuff. They didn’t want to watch it. You guys are both losing there. Sorry.

Trailrunner: 00:15:58 Sorry if I can get over yourself Brad. Yeah, that’s a new podcast. Got, it’s funny how you work that in there. Hey listeners, don’t worry. I’m taking notes. I will answer the question in due time, but this is a super interesting and important thing to reflect on and I thought about it a long time. Like what part of talent is and know, oh he’s a genetically gifted trail runner and he’s got really long nims and his calf muscles are lean and sinewy and and you know his, his heart pumps a lot of blood and he’s got a high VO2 Max.

Brad: 00:16:29 They tested them at UC Davis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about the brain? And I feel like more and more that brain could be the real genetic gift of those people that are champions in any sport, especially golf or something where, how do you sync a four foot putt? Is it by practicing a thousand hours? Not necessarily talk to Christopher Smith and Eugene, Oregon, my speed golf guru about context, specificity and practice and how practicing does not necessarily translate, translate to the competitive arena. So what is it about that champion? What’s the, and then in your example, like what if you transplanted your brain with, um, someone like Rich Hanna who refuses to give up until, you know, he probably wouldn’t even sign up for the race if he had my brain. I mean, look man, you ran, you ran 200 miles nonstop, right? How many hours? A few times.

Trailrunner: 00:17:15 Yeah.

Brad: 00:17:16 Well is that your longest, I mean your longest 40? So if you were sitting next to somebody on an airplane and they ask me like, what’s, you know, what’s your proudest accomplishment? Would you say that you ran 240 fricking miles? No, I probably would just overlook it because I wouldn’t want to play the text using my children to be, that’s right. Young people of good character.

Trailrunner: 00:17:34 He would say I made it to my flight on time. I didn’t miss the flight, good pop off.

Brad: 00:17:41 But you know, you have that, uh, that brain and that will to compete that’s in the, you know, 10th of one percentile of the planet and that, you know, this physical work that you perform to run that far is there, there was a discussion about this recently with the leading professional cyclists and triathletes of the day that arguably they’ve performed more work than any human in the history of humanity because work is mass times force, right? So if you’re peddling a bicycle at 250 watts and you’re training for the tour and you’re going 700 miles a week, that amount of work that you perform is not even close to being an approximated by our hunter gatherer ancestors, nor our industrial revolution workers that work 14 hours a day, not even close in terms of pure work. So your training and competing these races and doing a 240 mile event is one of the highest human performances in the history of humanity of two and a half million years to go that far in one day are for deputies ran 26 miles and collapsed and died. Right? So you went 10 times that. So there’s something going on in there that um, you know, it’s, that’s a, that’s a tremendous gift or something that you’ve developed and honed by whatever or repeated exposure to challenges. I don’t know.

Trailrunner: 00:18:57 So, so let’s, let’s get back to this new podcast. Um, what kind of things are you talking about on get over yourself? What is the theme?

Brad: 00:19:06 Yeah, so you know, I’ve hosted the Primal Endurance podcast for a few years, the primal blueprint podcast. We’ve been going for five years and generally the topics about primal living, diet, exercise, endurance stuff is about endurance training. Cause I wanted to kind of branch out cause I feel like to be the best person you can be, you got to look at all different elements and factors. So this show is designed to broaden the content into peak performance, personal growth, happiness, relationships, longevity, all these things that are of great interest to me. Uh, trying to do my best to balance my roles as a parent and a partner in a career person and all, all the things that I want to be good at and the great content that I’ve listened to that’s inspired me from experts in the area of sleep or interpersonal relationships or parenting.

Brad: 00:19:51 And so I’ve had amazing smattering of guests talking about all kinds of different, different topics, but they all kind of, you know, relate and direct toward, I guess you’re supposed to have, do you know about this marketing thing? You’re supposed to have an avatar. You’re supposed to have your listenership Avatar, like your ideal person or your envisioned target audience. So I’m envisioning a guy in a yellow sweatsuit. I was like trying to not take himself too seriously and so that the Eddie boy’s story is great. I had to get that out there. But also, um, it’s a great goal to work together on. I’m working everyday on getting over myself, not taking myself too seriously, but just going forward and competing as hard as I can. Not fearing failure, not caring what people who are judgmental think of me just do my best and honor my own values and my own belief system and try to make a contribution to the planet and all those high ideal goals.

Brad: 00:20:44 But it requires getting over yourself and today we’re kind of drifting in that direction of the social media and the posturing and the performing where and the consumption and the affluence and all these things that are impure influences that they’re throwing people off and making them in many ways feel not good enough, inferior to the celebrity or the the the person who’s, you know, the wealthiest person among all your friend group or whatever. We always kind of feeling insignificant and just not, not at peace with who we are and where we are today at this moment. So that’s the long answer of why a titled the show that way. Do you think that in this day and age where we have more social media, and I would even make the stretch of saying that a lot of that social media is biased or fake, um, you know, nope, nope.

Trailrunner: 00:21:36 No one goes out and, and posts a photo of them tripping on the trail with blood and mud all over them. They post the picture of them jumping through the finish line and being able to not only jump through the finish line but also go to the PTA meeting and, and being the greatest, you know, parent there is they don’t show the failures. And so that’s what we measure ourselves up against as these all these people on social media that have at all and have the balance when in reality, you know, they’re, they’re going through some of the same struggles and challenges that we do and maybe more because that’s why they’re posting a false image there, there are over correcting

Brad: 00:22:17 This article I read yesterday was the, um, the highest users of Facebook have the lowest level of life satisfaction. That co the inverse correlation, like the most frequent users and all that. I think, um, now sort of acknowledged and obvious and recognized, but I think that the real pain and suffering that’s not recognized as our addiction to, um, hyperstimulation and connectivity and that’s something that I’m really concerned about myself and wanting to uh, improve because, you know, like I was talking to this a mindfulness expert, Dr. Elisha Goldstein on the show and a future future show and you know, uh, remembering how I turned off all my notifications on my phone so I don’t even have a texting. I got nothing man. I’m just like, I’m not going to be a slave to that thing.

Trailrunner: 00:23:04 That why you didn’t answer.

Brad: 00:23:06 Maybe. So that’s why I never answer, you know? And so it feels good not to have the constant dinging and the noise and all that stuff. But guess what? I’m constantly reaching for my phone because I want to make sure no one texted me about a change in time, schedule, whatever. So I’m still addicted and addicted means doing a behavior consciously over and over and over until it becomes unconscious, until it becomes habit. So one day, once upon a time we hit click and we press the a the connection button to AOL and it dialed up [inaudible] young listeners don’t know what I’m talking about. What we used to have dial up connections and you had to physically go through this motion of like booting up a computer and figuring out how to open this window and click onto your email and all that stuff. And now it’s just like, it’s so, it’s so much part of our lives, we don’t even realize the negative impact because in today’s huge, don’t even realize it because they never had a comparative point of being disconnected or having a live interpersonal interaction be their one and only rather than the digital world.

Trailrunner: 00:24:07 I just went to Colorado for a few days and four days and ran up there getting ready for this next event that’s coming up. We want to get a little altitude training and there wasn’t any connection there at Estes park. There wasn’t any asked us what ever asked us. If you’re not from Colorado, it’s called Estes Park. I’ll edit that out. Thank. Thank you Colorado people. I mean, you’re welcome Colorado people. I pronounced it correct for you. So I was in Colorado and uh, no connection and it was right into my ass and altitude at some town. I forgot what it’s called. Anyways, liberating not to have, you know, you couldn’t even look, couldn’t even check. So you didn’t have that compulsory let me see. Did I miss a text? Nothing’s there. That’s why you didn’t send me any photos when I asked you to. Well, I didn’t even see the question.

Trailrunner: 00:24:53 You know, I, I will tell you, I have some faith in today’s youth youth. I was just with a whole bunch of 14 to 18 year olds for a couple of days at this camp and they all committed to shutting off social media for three weeks, three weeks, three weeks. Are they get mail, social media, I dunno, but they all, they all were on board. I mean, I didn’t hear anybody say, Nah, I can’t do that. There’s a lot of these, they’re going to try as a lot of accountability because if you say you’re going to and all of a sudden you’re posting stuff and, and what if they don’t make it three weeks? What does they make it two? Yeah. That’s still better than in and it gives them I think a perspective that maybe they’ve never had that since they were eight years old they had a smart phone and they’d been on social media and all that sort of stuff.

Trailrunner: 00:25:42 So I, I, I think that our, uh, our new generation or upcoming generation, you know, they’re, they have a desire to unplug, you know, our generation that will have the opportunity to see life without constant contact and without a Google and, and then, then subsequently we have all of that. So they’ll never be able to, like you said, rod, though, they don’t know the difference. They’ve never, never experienced that. Have you ever, if you ever had the, the issue, my wife does this all the time. Or she’ll ask a question like, Hey, what movie was Harrison Ford in that, that talked about the Amish? And all of a sudden all of my kids start really leaped on their phone. She goes, no, no, no, no, no. Let’s try to think about it and try to use our brain to remember this drives her crazy. Yeah.

Brad: 00:26:29 The worst example is the GPS technology. Oh yeah, totally. I also say one of the great inventions of our lifetime is the, is the mapping system, right? Yeah. And you’re, you’re driving, your car is telling you where to go. And that’s a huge improvement from getting lost and pulling over in a dangerous area and whipping out a map and all that. But we’ve lost our natural ability to navigate, and I discovered that like either out on the trails or something where it’s just, you know, I’m just not as attuned as I once was to just finding my way through, whether it’s a city or even through a trail system. It’s noticeably different.

Trailrunner: 00:27:08 Do you use a GPS on the trails?

Brad: 00:27:11 Oh my gosh. You know, I, you know, I’m so dated with my technology. I mean, I quit racing professionally in 1995 and we had the heart rate monitor and thank gosh that was the greatest innovation ever to, you know, identify the level of effort you’re putting out and in a quantifiable way how hard you’re working with all variables being considered, including humid and people are writing into the primal endurance show. Like it’s getting really hot here in Georgia in the summer and I’m running much slower. Can I raise my heart rate up? You know, my math training, heart rate. I’m like, no, you run slower and you walk and jog or wherever you’re at, whatever the conditions are. Same with asked Estes park, is that what you [inaudible] Estes?

Trailrunner: 00:27:54 What did I call it? Stds. Stds. I don’t know what you call it. Well, it was wrong. Clear. It’s like Zions in Utah, not Zions. It’s Zion Yeah. Yeah. So I earn, so GPS on the trail at those 200 mile races. Candace, the race director has the entire course. I’m on a file. So you just pick up an app for free and then you upload the GPX file on there. And you can see in real time where you are in any point, you just blow it up and you can see a little icon and you can see if you’re traveling towards the next stage station away from it. If you’re off the trail with, you’d go 20 feet to get back on the trail. It’s a real safety team.

Brad: 00:28:35 That’s fantastic. It runs on airplane mode.

Trailrunner: 00:28:38 Once you have downloaded the map and it’s connected to satellite, but you don’t need cell coverage to do it and it runs on the airplane mode, which means battery life is huge. So what a great asset. You know, if you’re out there in the middle of that dark mountain and you’re not sure where you are, you can have some confidence by opening that APP up, spreading it open and looking and seeing exactly where you are. Deep good stuff. Did you use it much? Uh, yeah. We use it at times and there was times, there was one part of the course that was kind of vandalized and we were all looked like it was in the beginning of the race and it was a Tahoe. And we all look like we’re standing around in one spot, a hall all with our maps out. I’m trying to figure out what was going on. Well, I’m just going to say, you know, the reason why I asked the question is I’m an addicted, in fact, on the way to the podcast, I was coming from a couple hours away out in the North Bay and I know how to get from that place to Don’s office where we’re recording the [inaudible]. I know how to get here, but I put it in my GPS. It’s nice to know the time. Estimated time of arrival. Yeah. I, I think the reason, one of the things I like about trail running is I’m going by memory. I’m out at the trails that, that I’ve learned by following my mentors out there on the trail. And I’m not using any kind of GPS. I mean, I’m using GPS to keep track of what’s happening, but I’m not using it to guide me and, and I think that’s probably the only time I don’t

Brad: 00:30:02 nice break.

Trailrunner: 00:30:05 I think I’ve lost and I never really had any, I mean sense of direction is not a strength for me. I mean it’s, it’s uh, not good, but I think I’ve even become a worse relying on the mapping programs. I mean I already, I don’t think I can get find my way out of a tunnel. I was explaining to my son the other day that before GPS we used something called the Thomas Guide. Oh yeah. For those of you in the EU in the US, you would know what a Thomas Guide is outside the US. I don’t know if they had that, but it was a giant phone book looking thing that had varying degrees of um, resolution for maps. So I’d have like for example, northern California and then it would, it would dial you in to get down to street level. And that’s what we had.

Trailrunner: 00:30:49 I think I had like five or six Thomas Guides in my vehicle and I’ll get any given time.

Brad: 00:30:54 Spiral bound. Yes. Yes.

Trailrunner: 00:30:56 Spiral bound pages. Fabulous.

Brad: 00:30:57 I went, oh those poor guys, they had a good run for a hundred years because on the front and logo said since 1913 or whatever, but it’s

Trailrunner: 00:31:04 dead now on now Thomas Guide. Thank you Thomas Guide with the day planner. That thing’s gone to yeah. Show pilot. No, no, the day planner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that? The company? A Franklin Covey. Covey. Yeah.

Brad: 00:31:18 There’s some people still prefer those. I mean even like these big shots there you’d see those entrepreneur tip articles and they, they like the mole skin thing. They like something in writing. I’m trying to go 100% digital and my life personally cause just cause you know, paperwork and visuals like that I think increased your stress level when you’re trying to be productive. But then you have your screen, which is, it can also do this, accomplish the same thing with too many windows open. And some of these stats there, we, we um, we, we change windows 37 times per hour. We interact with 37 different windows on a computer, the average office worker. And we switch our attention to a disparate task every three minutes. So we basically have three minutes of sustained focus. Typically when we’re just going through a routine day.

Trailrunner: 00:32:06 So get over yourself, new podcasts, pretty diverse, all kinds of topics and subjects, not just wine. Wine?

Brad: 00:32:14 Yeah, that’s right.

Trailrunner: 00:32:14 Sleep, sleep is one that you’ve done or will be doing, or is it.

Brad: 00:32:19 I’ve done specifically about sleep, but with

Trailrunner: 00:32:21 You did one with an with an author, maybe it was on Primal Endurance. Tell me where that one is because I listened to that one because it’s very important to me. I always, I always like to speak about sleep even though that’s one of my weaknesses.

Brad: 00:32:32 Is that so? It’s one of your weaknesses?

Trailrunner: 00:32:33 Yeah. Wow. Well, unless I’m racing then it is my strength because you can sleep on light rail in the long run. Right? So I’m good at that. So my, my bit, my best trail running asset is the ability to sleep. Unfortunately, it doesn’t make you feel guilty just to skip sleep. You mean no to sleep bet I can pull off the side of the trail and knock out 20 minutes rolling real easy.

Brad: 00:32:54 So does that mean you’re sleep deprived and daily life or something?

Trailrunner: 00:32:57 No, no, no. I just don’t. I think I try to, like most of us tried to push too much into every single day. There’s a lot of things that I want to do, one to accomplish. And I know that if I, if I committed to sleep that I would get more done with the smaller amount of time because I’d be more productive. I’d be, I’d have a higher output, more efficient. So just because I sleep say six hours and if I had slept eight, I would get more done with a two less hours, if that makes sense.

Brad: 00:33:27 I’ll draw a map completely. Makes Sense.

Trailrunner: 00:33:29 We’ll put it, we’ll put it in the notes. Yeah. Go look at, um, Thomas Guide map. Yeah.

Brad: 00:33:34 Matthew Walker was on the Joe Rogan show. I enjoyed that. A couple of hours of intensity from a sleep expert and taking some extensive notes on some of these. But you know, shocking statistics. And like you just mentioned casually offhand, but it’s been proven true that your performance on cognitive tasks slows down and you get more propensity for distraction and less focused and less productivity. So I try to notice that point in my workday where I start to lose it a little bit and do something about it, which usually has been to take a 20 minute nap and it doesn’t have to be a nap. And a lot of people push bang, I can’t sleep, I can’t nap. I’m terrible at it. It’s like I trained myself through repeated conscious behavior to make an unconscious habitual ability where I push on my waterfall sounds on my trusty iPhone, since I’m addicted to technology, and I can take a nap, uh, very skillfully for 20 minutes in the afternoon and I’ll wake up refreshed and I’ll have an increase, a sense of increased productivity when I returned to my laptop. But we’re incapable of sustaining our focus for more than 20 minutes at a time. This is brain research from Stanford. I mean, proven facts that we just can’t do it. And if we think we can, we’re, we’re fooling ourselves. Same with multitasking. Oh yeah, I can multitask cause I, I do this while I do this and if it’s a low demand, a couple of low demand tasks like listening to a podcast while raking the leaves, you’re not a guest on the podcast.

Brad: 00:34:59 We’re not raking leaves right now. But if you’re listening and raking leaves, congratulations, enjoy the fall wherever you are. But you can do it. It’s okay. It’s not high demand. But if you’re navigating GPS in city streets and negotiating an important real estate transaction while you’re trying to find your way somewhere, something’s going to go down. That’s not good. I noticed when I’m talking on the phone, as I’m leaving my house, something bad’s going to happen, not an accident and running over a black cat and I’m going to forget something or something’s not going to click into gear. And this happens over and over, uh, to where I now try to call it to my attention and, uh, you know, put the phone away and focus on one thing. Even if it’s something stupid like, Oh, I’m leaving the house now I have to focus, but these kinds of things, it’s on us now to build this into our lives because the technology has been presented to us by profit seeking enterprises that seek to get us addicted, seek to draw us in further.

Brad: 00:36:00 Uh, I forget the article title, but they’re talking about Facebook’s tips and techniques and strategies that are now being called out and they’re getting in trouble for. But when you accept a friend like request, when you are asked to accept requests, they present you with a dozen more choices and options like some other people you might like to invite or whatever it is. And so they’re trying to draw you in further. And if you try to delete your account, uh, the account that the writer offered of trying to delete a Facebook account was step by step by step. It was an elaborate, go get your email, click the link to make sure it’s like the backwards from, you’d think joining would be tough and they want to see who you are and get your demographics. Now know even deleting, getting out of that trap is really difficult. Fascinating stuff. So it’s on us to control the technology and use it to our advantage and use it to improve our lives. And boy that’s a, that’s a big challenge right now man. Cause sleep, sleep’s probably the number one thing that gets compromised from hyperstimulation high connectivity world. And I’m fortunately coming from that athletic background, when I had that nine years on the pro circuit where my job was to perform as a physical human, um, I formed some great values and beliefs that carried me through to this day as the old guy where sleep was everything back then. And so I slept half of my life when I, when I was a professional triathlete for those nine years, I was asleep, literally asleep for half of that time cause I slept 10 hours every night and a two hour nap every afternoon. And if I miss my nap cause there was a line at DMV or something tweaked me a little.

Brad: 00:37:33 Oh Man, I felt it on the evening swim workout. I wasn’t right. I was, you know, frustrated about it because I was, I knew I was compromising my potential as an athlete and whatever I did should have been secondary to the priority of sleeping. And so when you, when you get that chance to emphasize sleep and now of course I’m not sleeping half of my life and I’m not getting all the sleep that I should every single day, but it’s, it’s in there, it’s in my belief system that this is what’s going to make me most productive, have the most enjoyment, especially in relating to any athletic goal. It might as well come first and then your training comes second.

Trailrunner: 00:38:09 So many of us that probably look towards your role as professional athlete and said, I aspire to be that I would, I would give anything not to have my nine to five job and be a professional athlete. What was it like to be a professional athlete? Is it as grand as it appears from the out from us looking through the window and seeing you as a professional athlete.?

Brad: 00:38:29 Did you say the original Arthur movie with Dudley Moore? No. Did you see it? Yeah. So class on doesn’t cancer see that this is not, I’m against, I mean Arthur, you know? Yeah, he was asked in the movie what’s it like to have all that money? And he said, feels great.

Trailrunner: 00:38:45 Feels great. He’s got a new movie to come out this year. Russell Brand

Brad: 00:38:48 remake of Arthur was also outstanding. I mean we never did see that willed. It wasn’t funny guy man. But Arthur Dudley Moore. I mean that was one of the top 10 movies of all time. Oh, I missed up.

Trailrunner: 00:38:57 Okay. So we, are we still talking about sleep?

Brad: 00:39:00 No, he asked another question. Okay. Cause I want to, I have a topic that we needed to talk. Circle this clone. Yeah. Sleep is big, man. Okay.

Trailrunner: 00:39:08 All right. So is it as all die? Is it as awesome as it appears? Uh, for me it was a dream come true. Right? Cause I was a kid.

Brad: 00:39:17 I wanted to be a, you know, professional quarterback and I was on the all star team and flag football at the height of connect those dots. Yeah. Yeah. What is, what am I in ninth grade? 10th grade was high school in La, not ninth grade. So we started high school in 10th grade and in ninth grade I was the all star quarterback at five feet and I think 84 or 94 pounds. But I could throw, I could hit the receiver and I’m like, I’m going to be a star quarterback in high school and maybe go to the NFL, you know, then they went to the first day of high school and the team’s coming out already padded up having done their summer hell week. I didn’t know anything about it, you know. And I walked down there and the coach is like, what do you want kid? I’m like, um, um, I want to know when a new quarterback, I want to know where the cross country team meeting us. And he said down the stairs, down to the lower field and you’ll see the group.

Brad: 00:40:05 I’m like, okay, thanks. No, no, because I saw the size of the players walking by. I was with my friend JB. Now he’s going to have to listen to the show and he was going to be the receiver and I was going to be the quarterback. And then when we were walking to practice, we were arguing like maybe I should be quarterback and you should be receiving. No, no man, I’m the quarterback. You’re going to be the receiver. Like we’re arguing. We walked down, we see these guys come out and we’re like, holy crap. As far as the varsity guys are huge, you know, excuse me, where’s the the B team? That’s like the freshmen sophomore team. And the guy’s like, this is the beat team. I’m like, oh my God. So we went straight to their running scene and that’s where, yeah, that’s where the renters are all a collection of misfits from a cut from other sports and things like that.

Brad: 00:40:47 So that was a great community to start up in high school.

Trailrunner: 00:40:49 But so, uh, he’s still always answered your question.

Brad: 00:40:53 Yeah, I’m getting there. I’m getting, okay. So in high school, it’s not a straight line, it’s kind of a curvy, wavy lawyers. The switchbacks have a rich answer. Um, but in high school I really got into running and my friend Stevie Dietch and led the way Steve Kobrine and also they train so hard and we’re very serious. And so we got into this perfect realm of a high competitive environment where we’re having a great time having fun. Um, I was a 12th in the national finals of junior Olympics. I made it to the state finals in California in the mile. So I was primed for a division one running career. I want to have to UCSB and I got sick or injured five seasons in a row.

Brad: 00:41:29 They just destroyed me. Stress fracture, mono in bed for nine weeks with a mysterious mono, like illness, I should call it a shin splints. [inaudible] Malaysia. I was just falling apart. And so I, my running career came to a in glorious and midway through college and I said, I’m going to do this triathlon stuff. And I got on a bike the first day, borrowed my brother’s bike. He’s six, three and a half. I’m five 11. And I wrote 104 miles from UC Santa Barbara to my parents’ home in Los Angeles. And it was like one of the greatest days of my life cause I said, you know, I’m going to rise again and let that competitive intensity unleashed on a new sport and better watch out triathletes cause this running. This runner is frustrated from having my dreams crushed over and over as a college kid where my identity was wrapped up into running.

Brad: 00:42:11 So I had some fun racing triathlons as an age grouper, as a, as a college kid. And then, uh, this, this great tragedy occurred in my life, which was graduating from college. And so I went from a tragedy I have

Trailrunner: 00:42:25 Not too many people would consider and graduating from college a tragedy. Go ahead.

Brad: 00:42:29 Do you have to face the world? Yeah, yeah, no. So I went from shorts and a tee shirt and thongs and a lot of days out surfing or riding my bike around UCSB campus to a suit and tie and rush hour traffic in Los Angeles, driving an hour and 15 minutes to the high rise downtown as a staff auditor for the world’s largest accounting firm. And I was, I was devastated with this life transition. I could not believe that this was where I was at at a, at a basement in a building going through new employee orientation and the fresh smiling faces around me with their new suits.

Brad: 00:43:01 We’re eating this up and loving it and going, did you see how generous that 401k profit sharing is? That’s incredible. Of course I’m going to do the 12% load. Only an idiot wouldn’t go all the way to 12 I’m like, oh my God. They’re talking about their retirement and we’re all 20 21 years old. And so I was a fish out of water. I lasted 11 weeks and I made the rash decision at the time to quit and pursue a career as a pro triathlete. And so this was in the, in the mid eighties when I was leaving the world’s largest accounting firm, having passed half the CPA and had a nice career track for me, teed up to doing this tiny little sport that wasn’t really professional at the time. There was some guys making money, you’ve heard of their names because they were the early legends of the sport and they had clothing deals and they won the iron man in Hawaii and got, got a little bucks, but there was no prize money in that sense.

Brad: 00:43:48 And so it was a complete whim. And I did it for all the right reasons that we’ve talked about on other shows. My motivation was pure. I just wanted to pursue my potential as an athlete and compete and do something I loved and get outdoors and you know, go biking on a new course with my trusty Thomas Guide that I’d photocopied and wedged into, you know, went and paid the, the copy store to laminate so I could have a bicycling map and exploring the mountains all over Los Angeles and meeting my friends like Andrew McNaughton who was with me every step of the way. And we just went out there and bought plane tickets and mooched floors, hotel rooms that went on the circuit and tried it out. And it was a wonderful time because I was doing what I loved in life and I was not, you know, I was over myself because I was a nobody, no one cared.

Brad: 00:44:34 I was like rookie pro racing in this obscure sport, not making any money, not having any sponsors, just going out there and jumping into a lake and swimming as fast as I could. Get on my bike, time trialing with my head down and getting off, running a fast 10 K I was an Olympic distance guy, so we swam a mile bike, 25 run 10 k and over time what happened was, I might be repeating some of my story from the old show, but um, you know, I’d go out to these big races and get 24th and then I get 21st and then 17th and my, my run split was the sixth best split of, of the day. So I’m right up there with the top pros if I’d only been faster than five minutes behind out of the water and all that. But I always had something positive to think about and I was improving and loving every single day.

Brad: 00:45:16 And I loved it so much that I wanted to maintain the purity of it. So on some days when I woke up and didn’t feel like it, or my knee hurt or I just didn’t feel the right energy, I would turn around and go home and rest and say, it’s not meant to be today. And I’m, you know, I’m doing things because I love it and I want to be the best I can be. So I’m not going to force something to happen that’s not naturally meant to be. This lesson I had to learn over and over the hard way when I got to be mister bigshot and wasn’t over myself and start to succeed on the pro circuit and have attention paid to me in sponsors and recognition and pressure and, uh, you know, uh, business decisions and all these things in the mix. Then I’d go out there and force myself to train because I was so freaking important.

Brad: 00:45:55 I couldn’t take a day off. But in those early days, that first rookie year on the pro circuit when I was, I had bottled up that magic of just being out there and being an athlete because it was my lifelong dream starting as the kid who scored four touchdowns in the flag football championships and then quit his football career. I guess I quit on top. I never thought about that until now. So that’s my answer was it was absolutely fabulous and I learned so much. Now that was just the first year, right? Uh, the nine year journey was a tremendous ordeal of struggle and setbacks and failure and second guessing and uh, you know, having to come to terms with, here’s my peers who also had college degrees and went on to advanced degrees and we’re making a name for themselves in the, in the real world. And I’m in my bathing suit running around and trying to reconcile whether this was a worthwhile use of my time in my life.

Brad: 00:46:47 And now looking back, if you’ve got young listener here, man, go for it. Whatever it is. Like my son’s like, yeah, I want to go to, I want to live in Barcelona and watch the soccer team, they’re the greatest soccer team and hang out in the coffee shop and have a slower life than, than here with all the high speed and the technology and, and, and do some writing or whatever. I don’t know. You know, and I’m like, that sounds like a fabulous goal. You know that there’s enough high performing lawyers and accountants and doctors on the planet, we don’t need another one. You can get over yourself and do something that you know, means something to you instead. And so at the end of that first year, um, as listeners to trail rrunner nation might know from my, my previous appearance here, uh, I upset the top guys in the world and this big race and no one knew who I was.

Brad: 00:47:28 And it was the most extraordinary come from, you know, nowhere, uh, also ran guy underdog and coming in. So all of a sudden in one second, I went from a nobody to a guy who had just beat the best guys in the world. And so everything changed from that point. And I had some success and then I start to get too deep into the importance of what I was doing and I lost track of that pure motivation. That was the magic that I started with. And so I had to go through these cycles in my career where I had to, you know, face so much failure and disappointment that I was forced to second guess myself and reconsolidate what are you doing dude? Why are you, you know, why are you pushing yourself when you’re tired? Why are you going to these races when you’re know you’re not in top form? Just because someone’s giving you a free ticket or whatever. These, these weird outside motivational forces are. So when I was able to recalibrate and get over myself, that’s when I had the most success as an athlete. That was athletic days. That was a long time ago. But the same lessons hold true. So you guys do in your podcast, you’re here because you want to connect with the endurance community and entertain them and say something of value and bring crazy guests on that go on tangents and stuff.

Trailrunner: 00:48:34 Mostly that.

Brad: 00:48:35 Mostly that. Um, same for participating in the race. You’re doing the 240 miles. How much money did you earn? Prize money will, it cost me a lot to cost. What cost? Some money,

Brad: 00:48:44 he paid for the pleasure of running 240 miles. But you’re doing it for the right reasons inherently or endemically because there’s not those outside forces that I face when I became a professional. And so I had to constantly, you know, calibrate myself and say, I’m not doing this for the money. I’m doing this for, um, you know, the challenge and therefore I’m going to pass on this race. Even though I could make a few quick bucks because my ultimate goal is maybe a bigger race down the line that I want to peak for. And then later in career life, it’s like, what am I doing here? Am I just here cashing a paycheck? Is this the highest expression of my talents or is the highest expression of my talents getting diverted by dollar signs and by outside forces? Like a boss is sending me in this direction when I feel like my calling is in a different direction. So those are really tough choices and conversations to have with yourself. But when you can do that over and over, I feel like that’s when you set yourself up for not only the most enjoyment in life but also you know, the most material success because people that do what they love are doing a great, you know, doing a great job.

Trailrunner: 00:49:46 So you mentioned that that you are doing it for the right reasons and then you got the big head, the ego, and that was um, forcing you to do stuff that was against your gut. Did you get over yourself, um, and go through phases where you had to get over yourself or was there an Aha in that nine years that you said, I need to get over myself. And once you did, you stayed there. Did you get trapped in that, in that cycle of ego versus getting over yourself?

Brad: 00:50:16 Yeah, I’m going to honestly answer that. Overall, I was pretty well adjusted. I didn’t have these giant demons that I had to work through. And so I most of the time had a pretty cool head on and I was able to get constantly, you get constant feedback as an athlete, then you’re not the hottest shit on the planet because you win win one race and then you get 17th the next time or something bad happens, like you make a wrong turn because you don’t have the fancy GPS app that keeps you online or you crash or something. And so it’s kinda hard for a triathlete, especially to get that giant head that we see in the professional sports where these guys are making $17 million and they’ve never had to answer to any outside elements in their entire lives, including uh, the, the, the assistant coach that’s getting a pattern of harassment and beaten up his wife and the head coach looks the other way. That stuff is, wow. That’s a, that’s a troublesome aspect of the highest level of sport and celebrity where they’re above the law and above all these other things. Nick Young, man, I love you. But he get pulled over and he’s like hassle and the cops and like, you know, no one’s above the law and it’s, there’s a lot of tough things going on out there. But, um, I didn’t have that big of a problem being this complete crazy, uh, egotistical jerk.

Brad: 00:51:35 But when you fall off a little bit, so I’m describing these little tweaks where I was forcing things to happen that weren’t naturally meant to be. And then I’d go to a race and get disappointed and I’m come home and quietly, you know, ask myself, what is it about me that’s not, why aren’t, why aren’t I winning these races? And when you stop complaining and you get that story out and, and, and, you know, vent that story out and then ask yourself that deeper question, it’s like, um, maybe I don’t have enough patience and not enough focus. And when I don’t have enough patients and focus, that’s when I make the bad decisions. Thanks to Doc G in Atlanta, Georgia. Now. So he’ll another end listeners, we’re going to have at least 10 listeners on the show that’ll double our global audience. He would do a neuro emotional anti sabotage technique on me, the muscle nerve and reflex testing to identify stored emotional memories that affect your current mindset or behavior patterns.

Brad: 00:52:27 And so he would uncover these things that impatience and focus where my struggles and I had to settle down and you know, do the hard work necessary to succeed rather than trying to take a shortcut, which was my propensity and my personality type. You know, my favorite, a recalibration story of getting over myself was when I won this huge race down in Orange County, California, one of the best races of my life. And I came from behind and caught this guy and it was like I couldn’t have been more satisfied. And at the top of my career, during the best year ever of my career, 1991 when I was ended up ranked number three in the world national champion. And I remember going down to the community pool in the San Fernando Valley the next day, Pierce College did my swimming workout, got out of the pool and I’d run over there from my house a couple of miles joggin and got out of the pool and someone had stolen all my clothes.

Brad: 00:53:16 But wait, don’t you know who I am? I won the race yesterday, my pictures in the Los Angeles Times this morning on my parent’s table and tables of millions of other Los Angeles residents. I guess they didn’t recognize me. So I got out of this pool and I had to run two and a quarter miles home on a busy street Winnetka Avenue. If you’re from the Valley Crossing Ventura Boulevard, a massive boulevard, and I’m wearing a speedo and goggles on my head jogging along,

Trailrunner: 00:53:41 I would have held the goggles in my hand. Brad, I mean, the

Brad: 00:53:43 Shame, you know? And, but it was, it was, I’ll never forget it because it kind of the balance between the previous day when I’m getting mobbed with you know, athletes congratulating me and the media interviewing me and I’m sitting here in 12 people are listening to me talk. I mean, it was like, you know, a big deal was so exciting. It was great. And then the next day I’m jogging on the street and people are looking at me, the students, you know, I’m running from the middle of campus through a junior college campus in a speedo and then onto the busy street and off to the home and come home with your tail between your legs. It’s good for you sometimes.

Trailrunner: 00:54:18 That’s why you feel so comfortable wearing that awful yellow tracksuit nowadays. TMZ would’ve caught you. It’s awesome pictures and, and it had you all over social media, the fall of the great. Brad Kearns does. Scott, you have a hard stop, but I have a couple more questions for bad. Is that all right? Depends on how long is the answers are. No, I know you have a a or a meetings. Yeah. Yeah. You’d have to, if you have to bolt in the middle of his answer. Okay, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll uh, we’ll see how it goes. Okay. Um, so it sounds like get over yourself is something you practice today in your life. You’re instilling that in your son. You say go to Barcelona, enjoy, have fun, live vicariously, just be, be you and enjoy it. Don’t look at some contrived a definition of success. What’s success for you and go do that. It sounds like you’re, you’re doing that in your decisions today. You, this new podcast, the and the way you express your thoughts and putting it out there for all to consume that are interesting and where you’ve gone to being a high jumper to uh, speed Golfer and I mean you’ve reinvented, you’re a yourself many, many times.

Brad: 00:55:28 That’s true. Now to answer your first question, probably some people would disagree. Since I’m showing off my crazy, if you look at my new website, Brad kearns.com and I got my pictures of breaking the Guinness World Record and speed golf and here’s my high jumping video and here’s my this and here’s my yourself, prowling all this attention to myself. So I’m trying to be good natured about it and that’s why my logo is this goofy guy jumping over a high jump bar upside down where it says get over yourself because I’m not trying to be snotty or take this, don’t take this message wrong. So I’m trying to have a lot of fun. Yeah, I’m calling attention to what I’m doing and I’d love you to watch my high jump video or my speed golf video. But I’ve been through, you know, I’ve been through a long journey in the competitive arena especially, and I can honestly say like the, the aspects that humble you when you’re out there running for 240 miles or when you’re out there racing on the circuit for nine years and seeing your dreams taken away from you over and by other athletes, pretty soon you’ve got a smile and say, hey, if this is what’s meant to be for me, this is what’s meant to be doing my best.

Brad: 00:56:30 And I’m enjoying myself just because I’m doing my best and I’m putting it all out there and Johnny Wooden Pyramid of Success, that the top level of the pyramid is, um, self satisfaction from knowing that you gave yourself, gave the best effort you possibly could. Didn’t say winning or anything like that. Just the self satisfaction from giving the best efforts. I’m doing that with the podcast. If people think I’m full of myself instead of over myself, that’s fine because maybe it will be a lesson when they’re typing the message and getting out that anger and wondering where that anger is coming from. So whatever, man, that’s, that’s my answer. I forgot the other question. Oh, I’ve read this is important. I want to comment because you know I finished racing 23 years ago and now I’m, you know, old guy ,53, but I think it’s really important through for the duration of your life to have some compelling competitive goals, whatever that is.

Brad: 00:57:21 If it’s ballroom dancing doesn’t have to be sports. In my case it is. So I’m transitioned over to like pursuing this world record for the fastest single hole golf every play and it’s an official Guinness World record. I have a whole podcast show where I talk for an hour about it cause it was such a fun thing for me to do. How was I take you to do, I did a 500 yard hole, that’s the rule. It has to be a minimum length of five hundreds that’s a par five. It’s a long hole. And I did it in a minute, 38 and so if you look on my website, there’s a nice video on youtube of me ripping through this hole and making a birdie while running full speed. And only using one club. So it was like the most incredible clutch performance of my life because it was like, it was like magic touch me where I hit these four perfect shots, including putting with a three wood chipping with a three wood, getting the first two shots with a three wood.

Brad: 00:58:10 That’s fine. I’m hitting as far as I can. I’m up by the green and then I had to practice these delicate shots with the wrong club over and over for months and it all came through on this one day. Actually broke the record twice, once in Sacramento, once in LA. But I had these great p performance experiences where it’s no big deal. There’s not a thousand. I didn’t make money. There wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t like winning a race on the pro circuit, but for me it was exactly like winning a race on the pro circuit because it was that special satisfaction of doing something that I had, you know, compelling goal to pursue. I did a methodical approach. I tried my hardest, my family and friends were supporting me there for, because for a Guinness record attempt you have to have like a dozen people there to film it, time it still photograph it, official witnesses, all this paperwork to submit.

Brad: 00:58:54 So it was like a lot of pressure on me because it wasn’t just me out there, you know, with the, with with a stopwatch, you know, going for this record privately, it was like an orchestrated event. So I had to had to plug that. But that’s a good thing that you brought up. That’s whatever we’re doing whatever we’re going for to have a little edge to your life rather than sitting back and watching NFL on Sundays. Sorry, NFL your sport is too violent. We need to remove it from our culture quickly, hopefully in the next 10 years. But if you’re just a spectator the rest of your life, just because back in the day you played high school basketball, that’s not good enough. There’s better inside that you can come out and find something fun to do. And it could be as something as simple as doing your longest, uh, trail run, going from a 10 k, two a half marathon, whatever it is, it’s a fantastic opportunity to better yourself.

Trailrunner: 00:59:42 I have one quick question on the world record. Um, do, is there a rule that you have to do par or less? You said it was a birdie.

Brad: 00:59:50 Yeah.

Trailrunner: 00:59:50 Could you double bogey and still win it ?

Brad: 00:59:52 yeah, but here’s the thing, like, and you’ll read my blog post about in my show. Um, do you want a double bogey is Freeman? Yes. Okay. Out of strokes. Even one extra stroke. Six. Six. Yeah, it’s bad news. So like the idea in your mind that your hockey puking and just wiping the ball, whacking the ball from the ball. It’s going to be slower than some guy who’s making a birdie because it takes so much time to stop, set up, hit the shot. But I got a bogey in Sacramento. I had a couple bad shots but they were straight and so they didn’t interrupt me more than one second or something.

Brad: 01:00:24 So I was only two seconds slower with the six and Sacramento then with this four. But when you get down to, you know, racing through these holes, you got to hit the ball straight and you got to hit it in front of the hole. And I hope that there’s some more attention to this record and guys are going to go forward around the world. I’m getting, you know, reports through the Facebook speed golf group. Like that’s awesome. I’m going to try that. So it’s just a fun little offshoot of the regular sport of speed golf or I need to watch the video. We need to go the [inaudible] light you up man. It’ll, it’ll let you up. Which, um, shoes do you wear? Do you wear a golf shoes or do you wear set of track shoes? I wore these custom Nike spikes, these prototypes that Christopher Smith gave me, the, the greatest speed golf player of all time.

Brad: 01:01:03 My Guru in Eugene, Oregon. And he got them from Nike because they’re testing out of speed golf shoe. So those things, those things help my performance a little bit. But you gotta you got to hit the ball and got to hit the ball straight and knock it in that.

Trailrunner: 01:01:16 Now our last, the last topic that I really did want to talk to Brad about the really the, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today is about, um, you know, Julie and I and Julie Finger and I, we go way back and she’s, you’ve been her mentor for a long time and subsequently some of her knowledge that you gave her has filtered down to me. And so we often talk what would BK do you know what, you know, he would say, take it easy rest, get over yourself. You don’t need to be out there every single day. Pushing, pushing and breaking yourself. Have confidence in your, in your preparation. Feel good about what you’ve done and don’t think you need every single workout to be a 10 for you to perform well on race day, To give yourself that permission to have a bad day and don’t let it become, define you.

Brad: 01:02:07 Yeah, that’s well said. I mean that, that right there, if every runner can internalize that, there’d be way ahead of the game. And I think we have to, like I was trying to describe when I was racing athlete, like ask those hard questions, like what am I doing out here and what’s my purpose and what impure influences are, are, are in the mix? And so if you’re running to get away from something in daily life, it might be a good coping strategy, probably better than sitting at the dark bar at 5:15 PM and slamming down too much alcohol. But if those things are in play, those are going to be in conflict with your stated goals, like achieving peak performance and being the best athlete you can be a in terms of a finish time or something. And so a lot of times I think the athletes are training for other reasons rather than a pure devotion to peak performance. And part of it’s enjoyment, uh, experience with nature. Uh, you know, breaking up the long sedentary patterns that we have in daily life. And those are all laudable things to do. Uh, but when it comes to that, I’d say slow the F down so that you’re not stressing your body. Cause we’re in the biggest problem. And endurance is the overstress patterns that endurance athletes engage in, in the name of preparing for this crazy challenging event that the 24 hour, the hundred mile or the, the 50 k where we feel a sense of, you know, anxiety, insecurity, all those human emotions that come up for us when we imagine what’s gonna Happen on November 4th when the gun goes off.

Brad: 01:03:37 So we better get our button gear here in August. And that sometimes can be, um, an unhealthy approach and unhealthy mindset where it’s better to relax, trust the process of fitness to happen. And it’s a natural and in due time, and never force something to happen that’s not meant to be. So take what your body gives you everyday and nothing more and pay attention to those signs. And I remember getting very good at that. I developed a skill of going out for 13 minutes on my run and then doing an assessment on the fly, right? And I’m planning to do 12. I’m going to go down to the river on the Western States Trail, cross, no hands bridge. Go upstage, coach, uh, back onto the railroad tracks going to be about 12 miles and at the 12 minute mark of my 12 mile run, I go, ah, I don’t, I’m not feeling it today.

Brad: 01:04:28 You know, I’m just not feeling it. Turn around. The voice inside me was saying turn around and go home and to develop the ability to listen to that voice and go back when it wasn’t the right day was a tremendous benefit to my career. Uh, on the flip side, because I know that doesn’t sound as fun as doing that 12, you got to expand your horizons man. And Johnny Gee did that for me. The great a fitness celebrity that invented the spinning indoor cycling program. He was a finisher of the race across America, the nonstop bicycle race he wrote from coast to coast and 10 days absolutely phenomenal. That’s 300 miles a day on the bike, almost nonstop. A few hours of sleep here and there. Um, but he expanded my horizons of what a long ride really meant because we thought that a 100 miles on the bike was a long ride.

Brad: 01:05:11 And His perspective was that 200 miles was representing a long ride. And so he’d me out there and we’d keep going and going and going until my brain had to, you know, reset instead of cry and pull over to the side of the road and say, well, it’s 120 now. That’s as far as my body goes. Cause I, I’m not used to this. I had to keep pedaling. And when you finish a 200 mile ride, your mindset is forever recalibrated as to what you’re capable of, what represents a long ride. And all those things are wonderful growth experiences where you bust out of your comfort zone.

Trailrunner: 01:05:46 So, so how would you advise an athlete to recognize comfort zone versus um, uh, comfort question. Wimp. Yeah.

Brad: 01:05:56 Are you a whoos or are you, do you have what it takes to be a real performer and a real competitor and ultra? Where’s that drawing the line in my, when I sleep in because I’m feeling a little hot and stuffy and my hamstring is still stiff. Am I, am I being a whoos or am I being a really evolved athlete who doesn’t want to overtrain?

Trailrunner: 01:06:15 I think I can answer that. Yeah. Okay. That’s tough. I’m going to throw this at you and have you bounced it back. I think you’ve already established yourself. Anybody listening to this? It’s done something long and hard for a duration. They’ve established themselves, they’ve qualified as a tough athlete, and so go ahead and enjoy that label and then recognize that when you need to rest because we get stronger when we rest, right? That’s when we build and get stronger. You’ve already done the work, so give yourself permission to be that athlete and if you feel that sensation, I don’t feel energetic.

Trailrunner: 01:06:47 I don’t feel like a spring in my legs. I feel like I’m just slogging through this thing. Then turn it around at 12 minutes and go back home and tomorrow have that stellar day.

Brad: 01:06:56 Here’s this mind blowing insight I got from this guy named Joel Jamison who is a prominent a trainer and thought leader in the MMA world. So he trains world champion MMA fighters who you want to argue, who are the finest athletes all around athletes on the planet? I’d say fighter or NBA. Yeah, maybe a soccer player. But these guys are performing like, you know, talk about rest and recovery and the importance of doing it right. Um, amazing. And this guy, just, maybe he phrased it in a way that just gave me an epiphany, but he has this thing called the recovery, recovery based training method. And so the concept that you have a pie chart of how much energy you have to devote to in a week, you have 168 hours and you have a certain amount of energy, that energy output that you’re capable of.

Brad: 01:07:46 And when you allocate a certain pie slice to your endurance training goals and your weekly mileage, your workouts or whatever, you’re going to go in the gym. And do a session, so this all counts into this one pie slice. You also need to allocate a pie slice to recovery and restoration. In other words, recovery requires energy in and of itself. It takes energy. It takes, you know, cellular energy to refresh the sodium potassium pumps in your brain neuron so that you can think so when you stop thinking and rest and take a nap, you’re still using up energy during the nap to refresh and recalibrate. When you stop running and start slamming the recovery potions and lotions and smoothies and whatnot, your body is restocking glycogen, rebuilding, broken down muscle tissue. All these repair processes are taking place. They take, they require energy and I never thought about that in that context.

Brad: 01:08:42 I was always train, train, train, and then when you’re tired you go rest and you sit on the couch and you’re watching a movie and then you’re a really smart athlete. It’s like that’s fine, but you have to understand on a different dimension now that that sitting on the couch, you are burning up energy in that recovery state. It’s not a free pass or it’s not independent from a pie slice where you’re like, okay, work 40 to 50 hours a week trail running 12 to 14 hours a week, volunteering at the, uh, the church Sunday basketball league, three hours a week. Recovery is a pie slice in and of itself. That part blew my mind when I started thinking about, um, um, rehashing the conversation going, holy crap, I’ve never thought about it that way. And then to add that on, to mess with your mind a little further, the harder you train, the bigger the recovery pie slice needs to be.

Trailrunner: 01:09:29 Yeah. Right? Yeah. If you train harder, you need to sleep more.

Brad: 01:09:34 If you, you know, if you train less, um, you actually end up burning more energy during the day in daily life. Uh, and so they have this thing called the, um, the constrained model of energy expenditure and it’s derived from studies of the Hadza hunter gatherers in Tanzania. And they found that these active busy hunter gatherer of folks burn around the same amount of calories as an average working Joe in a modern world. And it’s because, uh, the more you train, let’s say, the less calories you burn at rest and the more lazy you lazier you are in general. So the ultra running community putting in those big mileage, these are the people that slum for the closest parking spot at Costco instead of walk or they, they walk their dog a block instead of seven blocks, like the elderly person on the next street that is out there every night, uh, doing the, the whole circuit of the neighborhood.

Brad: 01:10:29 And that was a mind blower for me. Cause I remember being an athlete and being either horizontal or near horizontal or training. There was no in between. I wasn’t like, you know, uh, on a whim, walking my dog for a mile in the evening cause we’d run eight in the morning. You know what I mean? I used to drive to my mailbox. It was six tenths of a mile from my house, not bicycle drive every day because at the end of the day I was too tired because I had ridden 84 miles that day. Why should I bike another 1.2, or if I’d run a long run, uh, but now we realize that no matter how hard we trained, we make up for it and we have this constrained amount of energy that we expend each day. So the insight there is that harder training, more rest

Trailrunner: 01:11:12 and rest not defined is watching a movie on the couch but sleeping, none of the rest aren’t watching.

Brad: 01:11:18 Movie on the couch is fine. Okay. And toning it down like being a lazy ass at work and, and you know, driving around the corner to this Sushi buffet or whatever. But we have to take into consideration that, um, if we may be led a more generally active lifestyle where we did 20 air squats every time we were going to go to the water cooler and did some stretches and got into the standup desk scene rather than the sitting thing. And when we’re on the subway, uh, we can do some air squats again or you know, add in more general activity during daily life. We’re going to be a fitter athlete and we’re not going to be high as high a risk of overtraining from just training, training, training, and then sitting on our butts and having our muscles atrophy and all those things. But the, you know, the insight that rest inside your body when you’re arresting all kinds of stuffs at work, it’s costing you energy. It’s an energy expenditure. Yeah. Yeah.

Trailrunner: 01:12:12 Got It. Yeah. Yeah. So when you put more, more hours of training in that other piece of the pie grows as well, and you can’t ignore that and you’ve gotta be aware of it. Well, here’s what happens according to Joel, is that every athlete compromises the recovery slice a pie. I made up the slice of pie thing. Yeah.

Brad: 01:12:27 They just train too hard. And then what’s going to happen is injury, illness, breakdown, burnout, hormonal problems, all the things that we think are normal. Um, Kelly Starrett’s work the Ready to Run, his book. And I think it was like it was an 80% or 60% of printers get hurt every year, right. Over use injury. And the overuse injury generally suggests that you weren’t devoting enough time to rest and recovery, possibly your flexibility. Mobility efforts are also deficient. Starrett says that you should spend 15 minutes of every exercise hour doing flexibility, mobility drills, and let’s say like holding a deep squat for more than 30 seconds or uh, doing, uh, the, the, the lunges and the mini lunges and things that I do after at the end of every single run, I spend about five minutes doing drills and the jewels are pretty tough hamstring kick outs and things that I’ll get, you know, breathing hard and they’re strenuous, but they’re kind of, uh, keeping me resilient and preventing injury because I do them all the time rather than just do the run and then go sit in a chair.Brad Kearns, thank you so much. Always, always fun. And for Scott to who had to leave to, to make commerce happened. Scott, get over yourself. The new podcast. So your list of podcasts now. Primal endurance. Yes. Get Over Yourself and the Primal Blueprint. We have a show about Keto every week.

Brad: 01:13:52 So yeah, I’m doing a lot of podcasts, man. Yeah, it’s like you guys, how many, how many shows do you guys do?

Trailrunner: 01:13:57 We work well. Just, just one. Just this one. Yeah. I mean, no, no honey, we go often one a week, one a week and that sort of committed to that and we’ve got about 400 episodes out there now and would just love, love talking to people. That’s really what it’s about. Right. Scott and I have often said if it was just he and I, we’d have been at, you know, episode one and a half. We just stopped and looked at each other and that would’ve been it. But it’s great people like you that come on and, and all the other guests that you can see on that lineup, it’s just wonderful to sit and talk for an hour and 24 minutes, Brad just killing it, just talking about stuff and all of it. Very interesting. So thank you for teaching me and teaching the rest of the folks that that listened and best of luck and get over yourself. I’m going to listen to it. I listened to your other one. I’m gonna listen to that one too.

Brad: 01:14:37 Here’s the music. Duh Duh Dun, Duh Dun. Is that your muse? That’s my music. You’ll know. The listener will get excited. How well I did that.

Brad: 01:14:46 Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback. It get over yourself. podcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars and it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.



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