Brian McAndrew, the man behind the scenes of the Get Over Yourself podcast audio production, as well as Primal Blueprint’s audio and video production efforts, takes the stage as the honored guest on this wide-ranging and thoughtful discussion about life, peak performance, exploring your passions and dreams, learning from failure and setbacks, and of course ketogenic eating.

At the age of 31, Brian has had quite a healthy journey of vast exploration and deep immersion. He’s been hard-core keto for over two years, all the while pursuing ambitious goals in the weight room. Brian’s life experiences include: dealing with a serious parasite infection contracted while swimming in an African pond (hey it’s hot in Sierra Leone for an Oregon coast boy!); plunging into the trendy LA juice bar health scene and digging a hole of veganism and chronic cardio; getting big into the familiar combo of Paleo and Crossfit; getting a burnt out on Crossfit and transitioning into a pattern of MAF pace cardio workouts along with high-intensity strength training; and finally gracefully pairing ketogenic eating with athletic training.  

Brian offers some thoughtful insights while Brad intersperses several cameos for Brian’s amazing viral YouTube video that he made in college that was the genesis of his current career. Search YouTube for “I Love My Ducks,” and you will see a masterpiece of filmmaking and positive energy for the beloved Oregon Ducks football club. Brian is constantly tweaking and testing on our behalf and today has a very groovy rhythm of simple, delicious meals, eating enough food to fuel his ambitious workouts, not stressing about testing his ketone numbers, and enjoying occasional departures from keto followed by effortless recalibrations. There is much talk about how athletes should optimize carb intake. Brian offers a sensible recommendation to calm down: “Life will give you refeeds,” Brian says. Brian also conveys the benefits of a simplified approach, where you don’t get overwhelmed by excessive choice or temptation because you are honoring a distinct commitment to dietary guidelines without any will power or decision fatigue involved.  

This is a very informative show where Brian shares insights from many resources; he consumes a ton of podcasts and has 14,000 followers on his Instagram account despite rarely writing anything more than, “I’m eating this” or showing pictures of his cute one-year-old daughter. Brian describes the magic and effectiveness of a simplified approach to ketogenic eating—the motto on his WholeDoods Instagram site is, “Eat boring food. Live an interesting life.” Brian believes one of the highest benefits of keto is the pleasure of a simplified approach. You don’t get overwhelmed by excessive choice or temptation, because you are honoring a distinct commitment to dietary guidelines without any will power or decision fatigue involved. Psychological studies confirm that when we are presented with too many choices, it compromises our enjoyment and increases our stress levels, likely due to FOMO – fear of missing out.  

Brian relates some wild stories during the show, such as his wilderness survival retreat where things got dicey due to a flash flood leaving participants without food for 6 days. Oh, this was when he was parasitic and “wasting away” at a buck twenty! There are numerous insights about formulating an effective training program and avoiding the perils of overtraining that plague Crossfit athletes, endurance athletes, and even recreational fitness enthusiasts trying to be consistent about their 6am Spin classes. Brian says he “hates rest days” but emphasizes the importance of purposeful light days or weeks in the gym to keep blood flowing and hormones optimized. Regarding the ethical dilemma we face when eating animals, Brian was obliged to slaughter a sheep during his survival school and offer up the profound insight that if you are going to take another life to support your life, you best make the most of your existence.  

Particularly for a younger listener, this will be a memorable story of exploring your passions and dreams, avoiding the pitfalls of fitness trends, and soul-sucking jobs in the world of advertising, and pursuing career excellence along with optimal health and fitness. Also, a reminder to appreciate your partner because Brian had to wait a freakin’ year to secure permission for his wife to join him in the crazy nation of America.  

These two voices on the show have talked at length during their long days filming content for Primal Blueprint digital courses, trying to sort out hype from effective tips for athletic training, healthy living, and the best approach to a healthy, sensible, whole foods, whole doods diet. They have figured out almost everything for your listening pleasure, so don’t miss this show. Brian’s meals on Instagram, and Brad’s underground recipe videos have become so popular that the duo are working on a top-secret book for lazy doods who want to cook keto but can’t be bothered to follow complex recipes. 


Brain talks about how the carnivore diet helps give mental clarity. [10:01] 

The MCT Oil makes it easy when you are busy and stressed. [12:50] 

Going in and out of ketosis is sometimes is tough to deal with. [14:25] 

Really how important are the numbers on your blood test? [18:01] 

The ultimate goal is to get your muscles really good at burning fatty acids and your brain getting good at burning ketones. [22:40] 

The afternoon blues occur when you have sort of a competition for energy. [23:24] 

Crossfit training is a good workout but you need to know what you’re doing. [23:27] 

It’s important to individualize your own training and not rely on what someone else thinks should be your schedule. [29:15] 

When we talk about recovery, what does that entail?  Is it the same for everyone? [33:24] 

What was Brian’s diet journey? From Vegan to Paleo? [36:33] 

We often overemphasize the importance of diet. [42:56] 

Moving around more is way more important than anything you eat. [44:34] 

When Brian went to Africa, he was skinny and unhealthy and exacerbated his condition by picking up a parasite from dirty water. [46:28] 

You can easily overdo Crossfit. [52:05] 

When he was struggling to get his health back, he went to a primitive survival school. [54:31] 

Brian talks about his justifying eating meat. [55:20] 

The process of getting his wife here from Africa gave him positive energy and stability in his life. [59:37] 

Can one’s busy life really accommodate a strict Keto lifestyle? [01:00:51] 

The food environment we are in today is very hazardous for anybody to navigate. [01:05:10] 



  • “All life feeds on life, so make sure your life is worthy of taking it.” 
  • “The food environment we are in today is very hazardous for anybody to navigate.”
  • “Polyunsaturated vegetable oils have been shown to create an instant disturbance in healthy cellular function at the DNA level such that they are compared unfavorably to smoking a cigarette.” 


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Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 00:03:17 Hi, it’s Brad to introduce my wonderful show with Brian McAndrew. Talk about pressure. Um, speaking of the guy who masters these audio recordings, the man behind the scenes be grudgingly dragged in front of the microphone for a rare occasion where we sat down in Portland, Oregon, his home and had an amazing discussion about all manner of peak performance, life experience. Brian has an incredible story. It’s only 31 years old. He’s been through all kinds of exciting things that we’re going to get into and the show: trips to Africa, getting seriously ill and not knowing what was wrong, trying to get fit, plunging into the hip slick LA fitness scene and screwing that up royally in combination with a crappy job, doing some soul searching, going out into a wilderness survival retreat and getting way more than he bargained for a, but generally this guy is, he’s my man.

Brad: 00:04:18 He is so committed to health and fitness and curiosity and exploration of everything that’s going on. We have great discussions behind the scenes during our long days of filming content for the primal blueprint video courses in our many adventures, traveling around, hanging with Mark Sisson, uh, filming and recording for uh, this enterprise, the get over yourself podcast, as well as the primal podcasts and it’s a lot of fun to hang out with him. Very thoughtful guy, very focused and very committed to healthy living. And I think you’re going to pick up that in the show and gained some great insights and inspiration, especially his simplified approach, has get over yourself approach. He’s an understated guy. I told you I had to drag his ass to the microphone instead of having the headphones on, listening to other people blab and we’ve had some great shows. Uh, he’s on the primal blueprint podcast.

Brad: 00:05:11 I think a couple of times talking about Keto, but this was a really special show cause we got into kind of his life journey. It was framed around a diet and exercise discussion, but some great insights come out of it. I’d say especially for younger listeners who are pondering their career direction, pursuing your hopes and dreams, doing crazy shit like making a youtube video in your spare time at the University of Oregon, that became an absolute sensation that overtook, captivated the whole community. They got into some legal embroglios with the university and ended up settling and making all this money while they were still college students and blowing it all on a credible vacations. We’re going talk about that more in another show. Brian, my favorite topic, “I Love My Ducks” is the video in question and how did I find this guy?

Brad: 00:06:05 How to did I reconnect? Get this young listeners if you want any career direction. Brian was a paid participant at our primalcon retreats, Young Guy. There’s a lot of people there. I tried to meet everyone and I remember him a little bit and then I noticed that he had also paid his way through the primal health coach course. graduated quickly, one of our first graduates, most enthusiastic participants plunging deep into primal living, studying, getting his graduation badge and then building his, uh, his graduate profile page. And somehow I noticed that he was into a video production as a career. I clicked on this or that link. I found that “I Love My Ducks” video and it was absolute masterpiece of entertainment cleverness. The rap song that they wrote and recited to the camera, no wonder millions of Oregon duck football fans lived and swore by this video before every game.

Brad: 00:07:01 But anyway, right around the same time, uh, we were, you know, of course based in Los Angeles, the primal enterprise and trying to get more and more video content done and getting repeatedly disappointed and ripped off by crappy production crews. And I do mean crews where three people show up to film a simple recording and mess it up with poor editing skills, not knowing anything about primal living or the nuances. And so I reached out to him and I said, hey dude, we need some help on the video side too. And he’s like, well, I have a fantastic job doing commercials for Nike and that cool stuff in Portland. But we kept in touch, kept in touch, and he said, you know, I’m looking for a career change. He marches to his own drummer. He’s looking for cool ideas and opportunities and adventure. And that began our wonderful journey where the guy behind the camera is more ripped and more committed to primal Paleo, Keto living than the subjects that he’s filming, namely Mark and me, sorry Mark, we’ve got to admit it. This guy’s dialed in and when we come down and film in Los Angeles, he’s a welcome guest in my parent’s home because he’s from Coos Bay, Oregon, the sleepy coastal village that is the same hometown as my mother. So this guy fits in everywhere he goes, whatever. He does a cool dude. If there ever was one. Go find him on Instagram at Whole Doods W h o l e d o o d s with a distinctive logo. He’s got 12,000 followers even though he never says more than I’m eating this or a little quips like that. But presenting a nonstop on of these beautiful pictures of is fun but simple meals and wait for the book coming soon for Whole Doods Brian McAndrew. Enjoy the show and I guess enjoy the show Brian McAndrew.

Brad: 00:08:55 No mistakes. How about that easy work for you, Bud. Brian McAndrew, both of us fussing with the recording devices for this show because you’re the guy behind behind the scenes and now we’re here making another podcast.

Brian: 00:09:10 Yeah, I can get to be here at your cousin’s house.

Brad: 00:09:12 Portland, Oregon, man. Yeah, can’t beat it. Uh, we just had a busy day of filming. My voice is tired. So that’s why I’m going to tee you up and learn about your journey through Keto cause um, when the guy behind the camera is more devoted and uh, even more ripped than the bestselling coauthors that he’s filming sometimes we’ve got to see what’s going on here. So we, we saw you on Ketoreset.com with your body transformation from fat chicken face. I forgot what your wife called you. I always mess that up.

Brian: 00:09:45 I just, I just got back from a wedding and people were bringing me the photos that I was using of the before photos at a friend’s wedding and people are putting in my face saying, hey, remember when you look like this? I was like, oh my God, I can’t. Yeah.

Brad: 00:10:01 Well you kind of went from uh, a skinny dude too. Big Guy in the gym getting huge and then like kind of phase three. Now is this lean mean keto machine? So especially, um, I’m curious like at your age, what do you, what’d you just turn 30, 31? Yeah. So in this age group, what is the, what’s your peer group doing, like your buddies from, from duck land and, uh, the, the Supwitchugin girl group and Eugene, Oregon or they, uh, into diet as a, as a group. Would you make an observation or how’s things?

Brian: 00:10:34 not really among my friends, but I definitely see sort of, I mean I think the whole Keto thing and even the carnivore thing, it seems like it’s sort of big and the whole like silicon valley, like tech, you know, sort of younger people.

Brad: 00:10:47 Sure. The body hackers that are amazing. Their brain function.

Brian: 00:10:51 Yeah. I think, and the thing with the carnivore diet, I think there’s just this, the simplicity of it that this sort of, that um, I don’t know, probably that very technical like programmer minds is really drawn to of just, oh, I just eat steak and you know, you do get mental clarity from, you know, being in Ketosis. So I think it’s, those two things are sort of just the very sim, like the simplicity of it. And, yeah, that sort of, I mean, I, I do notice a cognitive cognitive, you know, boost from it still.

Brad: 00:11:19 Uh, you mean in comparison to your previous ways where you were still eating healthy but not in that deep Keto?

Brian: 00:11:27 Yeah, and I don’t want to oversell it, you know, but it is like, you know, like a 10%, you know, where I feel like, um, not just, you know, like, oh, I can solve math problems faster, but sort of more of just like a mood stabilizing sort of, there’s less ups and downs where I feel like, uh, just kinda more chill throughout the day, you know, less, uh, like less, I guess

Brad: 00:11:54 You don’t, you don’t want to oversell it because you were extremely brilliant prior to your, prior to your Keto, right? But another one, uh, I don’t know who said this, maybe it was Peter a tea or something like the convenience factor and your, your level of productivity in your day when you wake up and make yourself a coffee or tea or whatever and that’s it. And you go to work. Yeah. I can think to some of my extravagant preparations, especially when I’m visiting my family and Woodland Hills and like all I’m doing is cooking these awesome meals and making the dessert and the, the mascarpone mousse with, with fresh berries, which is pretty much Keto friendly and primal friendly and nutritious and all that. But it’s like the act of consuming these giant meals three times a day or even two times a day to where you go into a different realm, especially if you’re busy or, I mean the meantime when I’m really heavy into that keynote thing is when I’m traveling because I didn’t want to eat any crap.

Brian: 00:12:50 Yeah. Same. And when I know I’m going to be, you know, really busy, if I know I’m going to have a lot of work stress and it’s like, that’s when I’m, I’m sort of going to go like really Keto and I’m gonna start, you know, pounding the MCT oil and it does become sort of less meals and it’s more, you know, um, sorta just buzzing on me. No MCTs and you know, I don’t know. It’s, it’s sort of like two different modes I guess. You know, I have my more like casual, you know, vegetable rich, Keto and then my sort of, I’m going to space, you know, when my rocket ship traveling and you know, and I’m just like dialed in with my can of sardines and MCT oil.

Brad: 00:13:26 Makes it easy.

Brian: 00:13:27 Yeah, I mean it’s definitely is. I mean I’ve taken breaks from Keto and that’s the is the biggest thing I noticed is less. Um, I definitely eat more meals. You know, I’m more of like a three or four meals a day person when I’m eating, you know, a more balanced diet. And then Ketos more like two.

Brad: 00:13:46 Yeah. So in summary, here we are in 2018 I believe you and I started together in April of 2016 when we were doing that photo shoot and staging all these groups of uh, trying to figure out what 50 grams of carbs looked like. And we’re like, holy crap. Some Brussels sprouts, a salad, one tablespoon of almond butter and a few squares that were already there. I can’t believe this. And then we tried to do some more research and get the um, you know, get the Greens allocated a little differently, a little bit of a free pass for having those Greens. But that was now over two years ago. And you’ve been kind of cruising nonstop pretty much

Brian: 00:14:25 Pretty much. And I think um, something that anyone can take away from is like, it hasn’t been nonstop, you know, it’s, it’s more like it is 100% like sort of when I’m just living my normal life, you know, day to day during the week. But I mean that’s the, for me, like the biggest downside I see of Keto is like sort of the binary nature of it. Whether you’re, you know, that phrase I’m kicked out of Ketosis and really for like any kind of diet that’s like the ultimate thinking you want to avoid is that binary on the wagon, off the wagon sort of thing and sort of ketosis. You’re just like a key to Keto Diet has that sort of built into it into its framework, you know, like, oh, I’m in Ketosis, I’m out of Ketosis. And so that’s sort of the most troubling.

Brad: 00:15:16 Sorry to hear that. Terrible. Yeah. What happened? I got kicked. Yeah. I went to this wedding. How was it? Oh it was in the wedding party. They made me drink wine and eat.

Brian: 00:15:28 Yeah. And I think that’s the, you know, is someone who wants to do a Keto diet long term. I think it’s, um, I just think you have to build into its framework of flexibility of there will be instances where I’m going to get knocked out, you know, but it’s not, it’s not a big deal cause you know, you just go back to eating your Keto Diet and you’re back into it. And I experimented a little bit with, you know, sort of a structured like cyclical approach. And I honestly, I, I didn’t, I didn’t like how much it made me focus on, you know, the stress, oh I’m eating carbs now, now I’m not eating carbs. And sort of the extra thought I had to put into it because the whole thing I liked about Keto is that, oh, it’s less thinking about food is less, you know, mental effort put towards my diet. But then doing the cyclical thing, it’s suddenly you’re fixating on a way more and you realize that, you know, one of my phrases, I use this, you know, life will give you re feeds. Like you don’t need to plan this carb refeeds, but you know, if you have any sort of social life, you know you’re going to have these instances where you know, it’s probably not going to be, you’re going to either have to avoid the situation or you know, be the one person who’s not eating what’s served. And I think in those instances it is, if it’s like you don’t want to say every one or two weeks like it’s okay to eat, not Keto and not worry about it and you don’t have to make it into a big binge. And you can even for me, like when I go to like I just got back from a wedding this last week and then it’s not like, oh, I’m not going to have a carb. Refeed it’s like, um, I’m going to enjoy some beer. And you know, when the meal was served at, ate the steak and that’s it. And then I had a bunch of beer and I was knocked out of Ketosis and oh well, you know, in a couple of days I’ll be back into it.

Brad: 00:17:16 Well, it’s likely that this is a hormetic stressor with a longterm benefit that you’re honing metabolic flexibility. Robb Wolf talked about that. Um, it might’ve been on the lengthy Joe Rogan podcast where you get that metabolic insulin resistance, they call it, it’s a controversial concept, but the main idea for the listener here is to say that if you’re never producing that much insulin, cause you’re in Keto nonstop for years and years, that you have the, the same adverse effect to someone who’s over producing it. In other words, your cells don’t respond well to insulin. So if you do go eat cake once in a while at a wedding or drink a bunch of beer, um, it’s sort of like a recalibration where your, your cell receptors wake up and are more sensitive to insulin, which is the goal that we all want.

Brian: 00:18:01 Yeah. And people will take that and you know, they’ll run, they’ll run a mile with it. And I think that’s, you know, you don’t want to do that because all you have to, you know, just a simple sweet potato or a couple of drinks or whatever, you know, some popcorn is enough to do that just to, I don’t know if there’s any like, um, you know, really great research about this, but I can imagine, you know, cause ketosis is sort of like a starvation state to sort of just let your body know that you’re not in that state all the time, probably has some sort of benefit, you know, just sending that signal

Brad: 00:18:36 And also everything’s being rethought. And Tommy Wood just told me what it just told me. I think it was him, sorry. Uh, that now they’re looking at 0.3 as the threshold for Keto. We’ve, we’ve often been told that this, you can test your blood, prick your finger and get a 0.5 millimolar reading of blood ketones level in your bloodstream. And that’s the official qualification for nutritional ketosis. And we hear the podcast about people bragging about their 3.7 and all this and now it’s kind of like, wait, are those high numbers not good maybe because that means it’s just floating around in your bloodstream not being used? And boy, this was a really confusing issue for, for Mark and I are doing research for the book and we were testing ourselves, you know, obsessively for months and months trying to figure this crap out. And I just put, I think I put it up on Instagram a couple months ago, but this was after an evening popcorn binge and a period of time where I was, you know, loose with my carbohydrate intake and I tested my ketones one day and there was 0.7 which was a higher number than I got almost for the entire duration of my very strict five month Keto experiment. Uh, for the book research where I was pulling 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.3 it’s like what’s a guy got to do to put up some numbers here. I mean, some of these were coming off of like a 36 hour, uh, uh, you know, a 20 hour fast and the previous 24 hours prior to that was extremely low carbohydrate intake with a sprint workout. And I’m like, all right, watch out. Here comes the watch out Mr blood number. It’s going to blow the blow the record off the machine and it’ll go beep 0.4 what? But now there’s a little much, a little more understanding. Maybe the understanding is don’t worry about it. I don’t know. Yeah. Testing a lot of these days.

Brian: 00:20:26 Uh, no, no, I mean the last time I tested it, I never really tested it on my own. But when we were, when I was visiting in Sacramento, I think Lindsey had had the meter. So I tested that and you know, cause I, it was sort of on my travel Keto Diet where I’m, you know, pounding the MCTs and the key gen x, I think I blew like a three point something. So it was super high. But I’m, you know, during my day to day it’s, I never test, but because I’m not worried about it, you know, I feel good, but I’m sure it’s much lower. And I, I mean, you know, just going by what people are saying anecdotally, I’d imagine that, um, a high activity level, you know, probably just means those ketones are going to be taken out of the blood and you know, used for something useful as opposed to just floating around in there. Um, but yeah,

Brad: 00:21:14 I remember Doctor D’agostino said that your highest reading might come a couple hours after a hard workout while you’re fasted. And that’s because your, your, your, your liver is thinking that you need the resources because of the strenuous workout. But then you sit on the couch. So he said, do a hard workout, sit on the couch for two hours and then take your blood. And so your liver doesn’t know that the workout ended. So it’s pumping, pumping at ketones and, but if you were to take the reading five minutes after the workout, maybe it’s down very low because you’re burning through it.

Brian: 00:21:52 Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And then something else that, you know, I think, uh, Michael Rutherford, one of the moderators and the Keto group, he was talking about how he saw his highest ratings ever when he was backpacking, like doing, you know, this low level activity for you know, are actually priced very strenuous activity, but he was eating some carbs. He was eating RX bars. And I would imagine that, you know, having just that right amount of carbs and probably it would make sense that it would sort of in the same way that ketones spare glucose, you know, the, the Carbs, the glucose would spare ketones cause probably be prioritize and you have a more sort of the ketones floating around in there, you know, more as like a, I don’t know, they’re just, they’re more available for you.

Brad: 00:22:40 Right? Wild. Yeah. Well, we know that the ultimate, uh, level of adaptation is to get your muscles really good at burning fatty acids and your brain getting good at burning ketones. But when you start out on Keto, this is from Philley and Volek work. Um, there you have sort of a competition for energy because the muscles are of their usual supply of glucose. The brain start if it’s usual supply of glucose. So you’re making ketones and some of them are going to the muscle, some of them are going to the brain. So your workouts are slightly off and you have the afternoon blues. That’s why it’s so important out of the gate to kind of tone down your exercise.

Brian: 00:23:19 Yeah, I mean that’s something that I definitely kind of learned on my journey

Brad: 00:23:24 at the very start or over time? What happened ?

Brian: 00:23:27 At the very start, I was still pretty big into the Crossfit scene. That was like, that was my jam. That was my community. That’s where I was hanging out. So, um, I, I was still pretty heavy into that and I was decided that, you know, I want to lower my body fat a little bit, but I was still doing, you know, you know, daily Crossfit and you know, pretty long sessions where I do my own program strength training in the night joint, hopping out the class and do you know the wads and I couldn’t figure out why. Like, you know, everyone talks about oh the appetite suppressing effects of Keto. And I was like, you know, a few hours after my Crossfit class, I was like, uh, what appetite suppressing effect. So, you know, I was veracious and it’s not that I, I couldn’t even, people will say, well, oh I do Keto on Crossfit and I feel fine. And I honestly never felt my workouts suffered either. But it was sort of um, yeah, that disregulation of appetite and you know, maybe that sort of afternoon blues, I wasn’t really connecting with the workout itself cause yeah, I was getting through the workout’s fine but you know, then you in the coming days, you know, you don’t make that connection that maybe you’re dragging a little bit and um, yeah.

Brad: 00:24:42 Oh sheez, I mean this is a big deal for me because unlike you, I’m an old full trained to do this crazy shit and not as crazy as Crossfit. I, I feel like half a Crossfit workout is one of the best workouts on the planet. Shout out to everybody in Crossfit and love you guys. Super Fun. I’ve had some great times in there. I’ve had some minor injuries too cause I got tired doing the inverted handstand pull ups and squashed my neck because I was trying to do one too many reps. But anyway, um, it gets an easily drift into that chronic pattern, which is what you describe where your voracious appetite was maybe not related to that one workout that you did that morning.

Brian: 00:25:21 Yeah. You keep sending, you know, that message of, you know, you’re trying to, you’re doing something very glycolytic but there’s nothing there. And so your, you know, your brain is trying to, you know, send you the signals like, Hey, like feed me. Um, but yeah, I found a lot of success, you know, just uh, changing, you know, I’d still go to the gym every day, but I just started to change the modalities cause you know, Crossfit is great because it introduces a lot of people to the world of strength training. You know, that’s their first time touching a barbell. But there’s, you know, there’s many ways to sort of lift weights and um, yeah, I fell more in love with, you know, just lifting, you know, doing just old bodybuilding stuff and power lifting and you know, just doing those things. And that wasn’t as taxing as, you know, getting my heart rate way up. And then for cardio I just did sort of the MAF cardio and that would, that was like what just helped me recover. So it was almost like this endless sink of that sort of activity I could do, you know, when I wanted to exercise where I didn’t feel like it was having the same sort of a feedback loops, you know, I could just, you know, do the long slow runs and it would really relax me more than anything.

Brad: 00:26:33 Wow. So I mean, to be fair, you were doing, you were overdoing it and Crossfit you’re doing,

Brian: 00:26:39 I was overdoing the intensity. Yeah. Too much

Brad: 00:26:41 So, but that does bring up a very important point, which is the workout itself is prolonged, your heart rate is elevated for a long time. It’s a blend of cardio and strength because that’s their motto is to forge elite fitness and be a gymnast, a power lifter and strength train or something. They’re the three pillars where they’re trying to build everything up so they’re, they’re reaching that objective. But if you do that too often, you were kind of in that overstimulating stress hormones for too long a period of time. And in contrast, the jogging, that MAF heart rate, of course you’re not getting a stressful event, building your cardio in the right way, you’re burning fat. And then pairing that with these strength sessions, those are different because they’re the, the, the work efforts are so short or one of those lines.

Brian: 00:27:35 I mean it’s like, it, I mean, strength training when it comes down to is pretty boring. You know, you go in there, um, you’re not really going in there to get your heart rate up here. You know, you do your sets and reps, you rest in between and you know, you’re trying to progress over time, you know, lifting heavier and heavier weights. But, you know, you really don’t burn through that much glucose in a session. And then, you know, you’re resting, you know, in between your sets and it’s, um,

Brad: 00:28:03 right. Everybody messes that up and they think it’s like, oh, well, I, I strength train, so I need to, I need to drink a Gatorade right after.

Brian: 00:28:10 No, I mean when I, when I go to the gym, it’s like, it’s, it’s so, it’s, you know, I’m listening to podcasts, it’s like I’m not getting amped up. It’s like, you know, the best metaphor I’ve heard, it’s like strength training is, it’s just like moving a pile of dirt and you, you know, it’s just like, oh you go in there and I moved a little bit of, you know, dirt digging a ditch. You know, some days you’ll move a lot of dirt and then, you know, some days it’s just, you know, you barely move anything. But it’s just like that consistency and it’s, I dunno, it’s just not, it doesn’t have to be this intense thing that you get really amped up for and you’re going to, you know, get your heart rate jacked up for,

Brad: 00:28:48 I guess that’s better because you can feel it out and decide how much dirt you should move in a very appropriate manner rather than submitting to, I mean spinning class was the worst example cause I worked for the company and my job was to educate the instructors to the idea that you don’t have to grind these guys to the sprint finish to the tour to France every day. Sometimes it can be a spin session. That’s fine. And you learn how to pedal with one leg or whatever.

Brian: 00:29:15 I mean I’m still sort of trying to figure that out cause a lot of, you know, I’m a follow like these programs and I’ll say, oh, you’re supposed to do this and this on this day. And I’m just realizing more and more of this. Some days, you know, that’s just not the day to do it. And then other days when you’re feeling good and you can probably knock out of the park, it’s like it’s just not there. And so I’ve just been, I mean it’s been something I’ve been thinking about more recently is almost like probably to take the, you know, these prewritten programs and be more of my own sort of intuitive person. You know, think about it more as like this modular like blogs where it’s like, oh I have two or three, you know, hard, heavy. Or like say I have two s heavy squat days a week and I can put those any days I want that week. And you know, two heavy upper body sessions and you know, you just place, you know, you do the workouts when you feel like you’re ready to do them and then he knows, okay,

Brad: 00:30:09 hey, you know, this sounds so breezy, but just absolutely the highest level of sophistication of athletic training. You just kicked ass on the US Olympic training center and all the bullshit spewing out of there with these physiologists and experts who are trying to coach an athlete like a robot. And if you just had this kind of, you know, a draw, you know, a bowl of, uh, of, of, of

Brian: 00:30:33 you have to get done, you know, like in a week he’s like, you know, you have oh yeah, you just have a, almost a laundry list of things you need to get done and you decide where you want to put on based on, you know, how you feel each day.

Brad: 00:30:44 Yeah. Mark and I, when he was coaching me and I was on the professional triathlon circuit and there was a big race coming, uh, four months from now, whatever. Um, the idea would be like, yeah, you should get a few long rides in and they should be really super high quality where you feel awesome. So guess what, that whole sentence, don’t, don’t cut me off at the comma. You should get a few long rides in that feels super awesome and you perform great and you feel great. So if you go out there and you’re just moving dirt or are doing things in a mediocre way, it doesn’t count because I felt like crap. I balked at mile 80. My quads, my lower back tightened up, those are the days where I’m going to pack it in and go home after an hour because I know after an hour that this ain’t my day. And then bide my time, bide my time. And then when the day comes that you’d knock it out of the park as you say. And then you’ve done the appropriate work for whatever your, your race goal is. But we, we completely forget these simple notions in favor of consistency, which in this context is kind of bullshit.

Brian: 00:31:47 Yeah. I think a lot of it just comes down to just the way I guess programs and coaching is, I’m sort of delivered, you know, it’s always delivered on this sort of seven day a week, you know, template. I don’t know why, you know, that it just sort of became a thing. Um, you know, that a training week is seven days and you, you know, you put all the, the different workouts, you know, on the same days of the week. And it’s like, that’s kind of, that makes a lot of sense from a convenience factor and whether you’re, you know, following like a prewritten program where you have, you know, an online coach who’s programming for a whole bunch of people, that’s what they’re gonna do because it’s easy. But you know, there’s really no reason that a training week needs to be a set number of days and, you know, you can’t, you know, take rest days or no, I hate rest days, but I guess light days, you know, I’m a big fan of, you know, those media, not mediocre, but you know, where you’re just going in

Brad: 00:32:41 A purposeful light day.

Brian: 00:32:44 Yeah. And then you, you know, yeah. You can choose where you want to put those, those, uh, so

Brad: 00:32:49 you hate rest, you hate and not going to the gym or not doing something.

Brian: 00:32:53 Yes. That’s, that’s my frame. A Nice Day. Yeah. I mean, I, like I said, especially, you know, I’m a, I’m a new dad and so sort of my, my gym time is sort of the one, the couple hours I get to myself. So it’s like this thing, you know, I like waking up early before anyone can bother me.

Brad: 00:33:11 No shit man. Cause when we fly to Austin, we’re two hours, two hours forward, it’s five 28 in the morning and you’re gone, we’ll walking three miles to the gym to do your, do your power workout. It’s very impressive.

Brian: 00:33:24 Yeah. But I mean that, that is like the time I have to myself, you know, and I, I really like that, that time. And, um, so even if I’m, you know, feeling a little bit creaky, I like to go in there and do something and I do feel like those, uh, I was, I always like, I’ll do these like programmed, you know, D loads and I always feel like worse, you know, coming back,

Brad: 00:33:49 what’s a D load?

Brian: 00:33:50 It’s basically where you’re supposed to like take, um, you do like a super easy week. You know, you’ll do like three or four like hard weeks that sort of build and accumulate and then you’ll take basically almost a rest week where it’s like super easy and it’s like a full week. He usually, cause you know, it’s still on that sort of Seven Day paradigm. And when I do that, I just like by the, you know, Monday when I’m supposed to hit it again, I just feel like I forgot how to do anything, you know? And for me it’s like, you know, why don’t I just take, like if I was just, I mean I think I’m moving towards this. If I was programming for myself, I do maybe, you know, three or four easy days and then by then, you know, I’m pretty, I’m ready to go, you know, I don’t need a full week of like nothing. Um, and yeah, it’s like, like I said, I like being active every day, so, you know, I gotta get my hang just, you know, I think just, I need to burn some energy every day and like it, I just feel better.

Brad: 00:34:49 Sheez man. Now I’m rethinking some of these long held notions my whole life. What I, what I considered to recovery was mostly to be sitting around and after a recent conversation with Joel Jamison on get over yourself podcast, um, he’s talking about this rebound training concept where you go in the gym and you are doing it purposeful workout to stimulate parasympathetic activity. That’s the calming, relaxing, rest and digest nervous system. So through the workout, because it’s carefully designed, you are going to speed up recovery and enhance recovery versus sitting home and eating and watching TV. And we know the body likes to move and if you sit for more than 20 minutes, you stop burning fat and you start to get more insulin resistant really quickly. So we should be getting up and walking around all the time, especially after a sprint workout. I feel like, um, movement the next day and movement for the duration of that day is going to dramatically minimize the, the damage and the trauma from the workout because the body likes to move, not sit. And so this, you know, you go and do a rebound workout. You’re doing things like lifting the positive, the lift of the dead lift and then dropping the way because we don’t want to get sore, uh, doing an interval that lasts 10 seconds and then for the next 60 seconds being really carefully attuned to trying to lower your heart rate and develop that skill where you can counter that stress response with the calming, relaxing response. So I guess the general message here is that you enjoy going to the gym for mental health reasons as well as physical exercise. You don’t have to slam yourself everyday, but you’re there doing something to make your day better. Really.

Brian: 00:36:31 Yeah. That would say that sums it up.

Brad: 00:36:33 What about the, uh, the, the diet journey. So you got into primal I think quite a while ago. Yeah. I’m guessing that’s in that age group. That’s kind of rare. We seem to see, uh, the clientele or the, the followers are more in there the age you are now with young families and trying to be healthy and see what the best thing that their kids, but when did you first become exposed to this sort of ancestral approach? And how did the journey go from there?

Brian: 00:37:01 Yeah, I was just, I think I’d had a brief exposure cause I, I was doing crossfit for like a little bit in college and so I had a brief exposure to the whole Paleo Diet then. So I sort of had it at least rattling around in the back of my brain. Um, and then, uh, you know, after I graduated I was, I did some travel and then

Brad: 00:37:28 cause it made money on this viral video. I love my ducks, go look it up.

Brian: 00:37:34 And then when I got back from then from a Africa, I, my first, basically when I entered the workforce world, I am moved down to LA and I was down there. My brother was down there at the time and I was just, uh, I was living with him. I didn’t have like a real job yet. And so I started working at this like trendy, like juice and smoothie bar, like in LA.

Brad: 00:37:57 Didn’t Lebron James?

Brian: 00:37:58 Yeah, it was, it was in century city. It was called Earth Bar. Um, I think they still have locations. Um, but it was the century city Earth Bar and I sort of got exposed to this whole like health and fitness, like world that I’d never known about it. And I realize looking back now that that sort of seized and made a big impact, you know, we’re drinking smoothies full of, you know, mock a powder and bee pollen and just the idea that, you know, like, Oh, you can, you know, sort of reach this next level, like through these nutrients we’re taking in. And we were like, I was living with like a personal trainer, this other guy who was super into fitness. So we were just riding our bikes for miles all over LA and then go to the gym and then riding our bikes and the beach and you know, just being super active. So that seasoned sort of stuck with me as sort of this, oh, I like being, you know, I like being fit and healthy. Um, and then that also got put on the back burner and I started working my real job. I’m in advertising, which was, you know, the whole soul sucking, um, you know, introduction to the work world, which I know you’ve, you sort of experienced, thankfully, like way shorter than most of us. I think you were out of there in a week,

Brad: 00:39:12 Eleven and a half weeks at the world’s largest accounting firm out of college and then deciding to retire to pursue a career as a professional triathlete. So I’m glad to hear someone else had that soul sucking experience cause really like you’re looking around your office and probably saying these dudes that are so jacked about their, you know, their contribution to the advertising world and then that’s when you really feel that disconnection. Like the guys around me were so enthusiastic about auditing and I was only thinking about, you know, uh, what, what are the best wheels on my bike or my weekend ride? And that’s a, that’s a huge disconnect. So if you, you young listeners are involved in a career track that’s not, um, it’s not appropriate. Take some action, man.

Brian: 00:39:53 Yeah, I remember I knew within a couple of days that it was all wrong, wrong place. But I, you know, I ended up, I think I was there for 17 years. Oh, sorry. No, like two and a half years. But I took some trips back to Africa, sort of regained my sanity. And during this phase, you know, when I was working and going back and forth, that’s when,

Brad: 00:40:16 sorry, where are you headed Brian? You’re taking some days off. Yeah. I’m going to freaking Africa to get out of here. You consumerism bullshit. United States, Huh? Yeah. Great time.

Brian: 00:40:28 They took me back twice and then the third time that I can, okay, you’re not coming back.. Um, but during this time I actually, I, you know, I still sort of had that interest in, um, you know, fitness and health and living in LA. Um, you know, I got it in my head that, oh, a Vegan diet. It would be good to do. And at the same time I, I was getting really into running just to sort of burn off steam at the end of the day. So this combination of, uh, not eating any animals and you know, just running like a madman after work. I basically, I shriveled away and looking back, I, I mean, I probably really damaged my health, honestly.. I mean a lot of it was probably just working a job I didn’t like. And then yeah, putting on top of that, just, um, you know, just not eating enough, not eating any animals and then, you know, just, you know, running constantly, you know,

Brad: 00:41:24 It about the, the triple crown there, man, a shitty job. Um, uh, nutrient deficient diet. Not to criticize veganism, but you probably didn’t have optimal approach or it’s not optimally in your genetics. And those are completely independent of a blanket condemnation. I think we’re doing too much of that where it’s like, yeah, it was so stupid. I went Vegan for awhile. Well, um, some people are feeling fantastic on that mode, but maybe they have better jobs. I don’t know.

Brian: 00:41:51 Yeah. And honestly I think it’s probably the biggest thing was just not having a good job or you know, or even, you know, like a, like a bunch of really close friends like living in la, but I’m not going to just trash the Vegan diet either. But it definitely didn’t do.

Brad: 00:42:07 Yes, you weren’t eating it didn’t you’re, you’re excluding some of the most nutrient dense foods on the planet.

Brian: 00:42:12 You know, the chronic endurance exercise didn’t do a lot of favors to my body composition. Was it already a very small guy?

Brad: 00:42:19 Yeah. Could, could vegan be super awesome for the yoga instructor who was never doing anything chronic and never asking for explosive performance nor prolonged endurance suffering. Um, and has that built in chill type of disposition? Ah, that’s interesting question. It’s probably, you know, almost any diet could work if someone’s really highly vibrating on all the other levels in their life. It’s an interesting thought and I know there’s, you know, there’s these counter arguments to whatever diet where there’s this tribe in South America that eats only corn meal and a few other fruits and vegetables. They’re cutting, their diet is 100% carbs and they’re very healthy and they have no heart disease. Yeah. And they live at 8,000 feet and they walked 12 miles a day. So what you got, what you got to say about anybody walking 12 miles a day and not eating processed foods. You’re done. You, you, you, you ascend to the next level. You, you’re going to heaven, you’re going to live to 97 probably. But for the rest of us who are in these stressful activities, like Dr Tommy Wood says, all modern athletic goals are a completely modern construct. Hunter gatherer did none, nothing in the sword. And we have to remember also like our ancestors did. They were lazy Mofos that did the absolute bare minimum necessary to survive and never a finger lifting more because there was no point, they weren’t accumulating goods and trying to get to earn more beads to get a bigger hut because they’re going to break that thing down and move to the next place. So, you know, now we’re, we’re on a completely different zone and we have different dietary needs perhaps.

Brian: 00:43:56 Yeah. I mean, like, I think we’ve talked, we talked about it before. I mean, just off, you know, uh, uh, recording. But you know, yeah, diet, this is a whole podcast about diet, but it’s, you know, I think a lot of times we overemphasize, you know, the role plays and as long as you don’t, you know, you don’t want to screw it up. You know. And we talked about, you know, avoiding, you know, sugar’s grains and those a process oil. It’s like once you get rid of that, it’s like maybe diet. Oh, the everything else doesn’t even matter that compared to all the other lifestyle stuff. Um, yeah,

Brad: 00:44:34 yeah. I’m getting there man. I mean, I’m, I don’t think I was ever, hopefully not super dogmatic about, uh, you know, my journey and all the different stops. But I know that I’m hanging out with Rip Esselstyn gives me a wonderful perspective. You don’t know him. He’s an old time triathlon buddy of mine. I’ve known him for 30 years. He’s super positive, enthusiastic. He’s making a fantastic change in the world and he’s from the entire opposite spectrum of us in the ancestral community. He’s part of his brand is called the Engine Two Diet bestselling books series. His father, Dr Cauldwell from Cleveland Clinic is one of the world’s leading researchers and reversing heart disease through diet. And they’re in the plant based category where they swear off animal products. They don’t even like, um, uh, oils like olive oil because it’s too fat and they want to emphasize the Rip calls it the peasant foods of fruits, vegetables, whole grains. But if you spend a little time on a spreadsheet or whatever you want breaking down the various messaging and the various approaches we have and me and that Mofo went shopping together at the Sacramento Natural Foods Co op with our little baskets sharing one basket and almost everything in there was group activity. And then he likes to have a little more fruit than I do when I’m in my Keto phases and he doesn’t want a bite of my liver. But oh my gosh, I think it’s for all the listeners to back up a few steps and realize, um, you know, who said this, Tommy said this on his blog Doctor Tommy Wood said. Uh, moving around more is way more important than anything you eat. If you’re not moving around enough, we have to start there. Same with sleep. Anyone would would chime in there. So now that we got that off your off our chest, you had this shit ass Vegan Diet, you are training to your training too hard and you had a lousy jobs. So picking up from there. Yeah,

Brian: 00:46:28 That combination of things sort of a weathered me away into a shell of a, you know, a young, mid 20 year old person. Um, and it was, I think it was during one of these other, one of these trips to Africa. I think maybe the one where I met my future wife and I sort of at that moment sort of took a look in the mirror and be like, wow, I’ve, I sort of uh, frittered away my health. And at the same time I actually, I got a parasite when I was over in Africa. So that will further, you know,

Brad: 00:47:00 I’d say you were vulnerable when you went over there, then I didn’t know that storyline before that you, you set yourself up by heading over there. It’s a depleted, yeah, skinny chicken boy, His Grace called you.

Brian: 00:47:11 And then I, and then, you know, I further exasperated by it, you know, swimming in some dirty ass water and some African village and uh, got a parasite that I didn’t even know I had for several months. But, you know, I continued to lose weight and you know, when I sort of became a health scare because we didn’t, they couldn’t find what parasite it was. And so it became unclear if I did have a parasite or, you know, if I had something more serious like cancer or something. So they started doing it, you know, I had to do a whole run up, you know, like a bone marrow biopsy and all these things to make sure I didn’t have cancer. But sort of that, um, that phase I sort of took, you know, I sort of just looked in the mirror and sort of asked, asked myself questions of, you know, why I’ve been doing things that way. And I saw, I just sort of wanted to turn a corner and like really build back my health and virility. Really. I was like, I, I need to get some, like I just want to have robust health again. And that’s sort of, um, when I really sort of dove back into the whole Primal Paleo thing. And, uh, it definitely, it did make a difference. You know, I just, I was eating lots of eggs and sardines and me and that’s when I moved to Portland and I became very involved in the Crossfit gym and it really was this transformation. Um, and I remember the next time I saw my future wife Grace like she was, didn’t think it was the same person. Like, you know, I was used to be a stick and then, uh, yeah, it wasn’t a stick anymore

Bradl: 00:48:50 I guess it was only then that she agreed to date.

Brian: 00:48:54 probably. Yeah. It’s just like, okay,

Brad: 00:48:56 I’ll consider this white boy from American now. Cause he moved.

Brian: 00:48:59 Yeah. Her, her whole family thought like the first time they saw me they thought it was on drugs. Oh, like, like, like tweaked out. Yeah. That was like a dude they thought was a tweaker and then I came back, you know, and like, oh, like this guy really shaped up.

Brad: 00:49:15 Okay. So not to cast dispersions or judgments, but you plunged into that scene in La and you drifted from one thing to the other. And he ended up at overtrained, uh, nutrient depleted, overworked, unfulfilled thing. And it’s like, you know, you’re in your 20s, you’re going for it. You’re, you’re talented artist and filmmaker. We saw that in college when he made the viral video. “I Love My Ducks.” And so it seemed like every, and you had this sincere interest in health and fitness. You’re not talking about your partying days where you, you know, crashed cars and, um, you know, hung out with Tommy Lee and got arrested. You were doing what you were, you were, you were, you know, by all accounts I’m doing the best you could. And at this it’s ran new ground. That’s, that’s pretty profound lesson to learn and reflect upon.

Brian: 00:50:05 Yeah. And I mean, I guess I’m,

Brad: 00:50:07 except for the swimming and the stinky pool shell was probably not a good idea, but wasn’t it because you were hotter than hell and like at the equator just done. Oh my

Brian: 00:50:16 gosh. Yeah. That, there was nothing. You know, I was, I was roasting in, you know, nothing. I saw my, you know, African friends, he was doing this. I thought, oh, I could, you know, it’s fine for me.

Brad: 00:50:27 It’s like me going to Mexico, man. I’ve just come back from my fourth trip there and two years in sick upon return every time. So I’m making a conclusion that maybe I shouldn’t hang out in small villages in Mexico. Even know other people are just fine. Um, boy, you know, connecting the dots. So, uh, you came back and thanks to Portland. Okay, sorry LA you, you lose this battle to Portland, but this has to be the most, most health conscious town. I’ll put Boulder up there. Um, but it is phenomenal what’s going on in this town and stopping off at these random neighborhood markets like the New Seasons chain, which is the only local, I think they’re absolutely phenomenal. They are, you know, above and beyond whole foods in many ways. And this is what people are accustomed to because it’s all over town.

Brian: 00:51:15 Yeah. I mean there’s, there’s a big, you know, sort of farm to table, restaurant scene and you know, the whole plant based Vegan scene’s big up here, right?

Brad: 00:51:24 Yeah. I forgot they Portlandia episode where they’re eating the pasture raised chicken and I’m like, excuse me, is this chicken local? Is it pasture raised? Well, did he have a good life? Did he have peer support? Y’All? God, that was fun. And then they’re like, they’re still trying to order and then they, they can’t decide. And so they have to get in their car and drive over to the home where the, where the chicken was raised so they could see about his, his health standards and his quality of life before they, before they placed their order in the cafe. That’s Portland.

Brian: 00:51:52 Portlandia is basically all true

Brad: 00:51:54 basically based on true stories. It says that the star of the show. Yeah. Okay. So you had that nice supportive environment up here, especially the Crossfit community.

Brian: 00:52:05 Yeah. And then, uh, I guess I guess where to go from here.

Brad: 00:52:10 So you had, you went into the, um, Paleo style diet where you’re slamming this sardines, the eggs, the meat, whatever, uh, and then pairing that with back into a Crossfit scene, but were you’re getting in that chronic pattern with Crossfit.?

Brian: 00:52:27 Yeah, I mean like anything, you know, things eventually I think got a little bit out of balance, you know, like anything, it’s not the thing itself like Crossfit’s great, but if you overdo it, it becomes not so great. And um, yeah, I think I overdid it a little bit. And uh, same io, same with a diet. I think I got a little bit, I talked about this on the last podcast I was on, but a little bit myopic about, you know, getting bigger and chasing strength and then, uh, basically getting fatter than I wanted to, you know, just sort of losing the forest for the trees, not really realizing it was happening. But um, yeah, you know, it just comes down to, I dunno, balance and,

Brad: 00:53:10 well, I guess if you’re powerlifting goal is to up your dead lift.

Brian: 00:53:14 Yeah. You want to get bit,

Brad: 00:53:16 You were, you were doing fine. You were right on track. I mean, tell me like, what was your High School weight? What was your weight when you were skinny chicken boy at your worst with the parasite, and then what did you bulk up to at your max?

Brian: 00:53:27 I mean, I was always really small in high school. I was like probably 120 some pounds.

Brad: 00:53:35 Steve Prefontaine from the same town.

Brian: 00:53:38 Um, and then college, you know, just not being a normal guy who was probably 130, some,

Brad: 00:53:46 Well, not, not normal because you guys were all celebrities. What chick girl you’ve gotta go on Youtube and, and look for is subwhich a girl, a channel, a channel?

Brian: 00:53:55 Um, I think so if you, if you search the videos, we’ll come supwhichin girl.

Brad: 00:54:01 Sup,

Brian: 00:54:02 W. I. T. C. H. U. G. I. N.

Brad: 00:54:05 Oh yeah. So we’re going to do a whole show about this for get over yourself podcast. But, um, you guys had this viral video for duck football fans and it led to this incredible dispute with the university. Then it was settling and you guys collecting royalties and traveling around and blowing all your money. It’s a beautiful story. So what we want to hear that, we’ll record that for posterity, but right now, so then your, your college weight and then,

Brian: 00:54:31 And then when I sort of went, when I was doing my, one of those doing the Vegan thing, I, I think I got with the parasite. I got below one 20. Oh, oh. And at the same time I, I mean I was, I think I always had sort of a ancestral interest cause I did this, uh, this, uh, primitive survival school. I did a couple like courses out there and so I did this three week during the same period of time where I was, you know, a vegetarian and a parasitic. I did this three weeks survival course where they basically strip you of everything except you know, uh, like a cloth sack and you know, a sweater and a knife and like, you know, you’re out there and you have to make fire with sticks.

Brad: 00:55:16 Where was it? It was in a like southern Utah.

Brian: 00:55:20 Oh Gee. It’s really awesome. I mean it’s still going. It’s called Boulder Outdoors Survival School. Um, but yeah, talking about like learning about ancestral living like that, that was, you know, one of the biggest eye openers for me in that, that was actually the turning point. Um, when I started eating meat. Cause part of the thing was you have to like process a sheep like about halfway through it. Like the first week, uh, you basically have nothing and it wasn’t planned but there was a flash flood. We got trapped and we didn’t eat for six days, so we didn’t eat any meat for six days. We eat together with the group. Yeah. It was a group, it was probably like eight of us days. Yeah. And then the next thing is water. We had water and it wasn’t supposed to be six days, but there was, we basically got like trapped in our camp cause of like a, the river came up.

Brian: 00:56:12 And so we were stuck there. And that was sort of my first PR only, you know, experience with a prolonged fast and I am or you know, and just walking around like sort of in a haze, I’m probably key topic but not feeling good. Um, but yeah, about halfway through, you know, you, you kill and process a sheep, you know, using like obsidian blades. And this was sort of the um, like say, you know, the, the, this was my first meet, you know, and like over a year. And it’s the, I mean that’s still an experience, you know, I sort of hold on to, you know, I guess having to like hold down an animal and you know, watch it die and just realize that anytime you do eat and the animal, it’s like, I mean, I know I’m, I do this, you know, you can sort of see the free range labor when you’re like, okay, I’m good. Um, you know, like I, I’m, I’m an ethical Omnivore, but I mean there’s a cost, you know, anytime you eat an animal, like, you know, there’s a little bit of suffering that happens no matter how well it’s done. And it’s easy to forget. But that sticks with me. But I felt like, okay, once I was at, once I witnessed this, I like earn sort of, you know, I can, I’ve earned, I mean, it sounds stupid, but you know, I’ve earned my ability to eat meat again.

Brad: 00:57:35 Yeah. At least you’re connected. Yeah. I mean, I just, just to, just to mess with vegans a little bit, um, you know, when they’re eating their wheat, um, inside that wheat molecule is a little bit of mouse that got caught. Oh yeah. Tiller blade. So it’s all about drawing a certain line.

Brian: 00:57:52 And that was, I mean I think that’s, and that’s the one of the main reasons I stopped eating meat is because you get into this, it’s just sort of that you feel like, you know, the guilt of existing, you know, everything you do like seems to take, you know, the life of something else. And you know, it’s, it’s hard to deal with. So you want to somehow you want to feel like you’re doing something, you know, and sort of the motto I came up with in the last few years that, you know, all life feeds on life, so make sure your life is worthy of taking it, you know, so you’re sort of more focused cause no matter what you do, you know, you’re the inputs, you can’t really, you can’t really minimize the input side of the equation. Like your life is going to feed on something. So focus on, I guess the output side. So, you know, make sure your life is, provides more value to the world. And you know, those cows that you’re eating would have ,

Brad: 00:58:48 Uh, so then you’re kind of in this groove of ancestral style eating. Um, and that’s getting us up to a recent times. Yeah. With that, uh, transition into the Keto experiment.

Brian: 00:59:04 Yeah. And then also, I mean, again, sort of on the theme of how like, uh, the lifestyle factors can I think we overplay the Diet and not enough the lifestyle, like, you know, the same time I sort of was able to really commit the Keto is when my wife got here and you know, having someone with me, you know, I think just made it, I had in my life more stable in general and you know, I had that, uh, I think I was just happier so it made, you know, following a diet a lot easier. Yeah. Right. Looking back,

Brad: 00:59:37 That’s a, that’s a pure motivation. Yeah. You’re enjoying your life. You have someone to share with because it was a struggle. Listeners, he had to wait a year and deal with bureaucratic red tape where there you guys are getting married, but they still wouldn’t let her come here from her Sierra Leon her home country. Yes. So that was, that’s tough man. And like speaking to that, uh, that insight to make sure your life’s worth it when you’re taking another life from the cow or the sheep. Same with the relationship. Like people are out there waiting a year for their love to come join them. And we’re here turning our head and, and bickering just routinely, just for fun every day. So that’s a, that’s a cool story. And if you’re motivated by positive energy and enjoyment of life, that’s always going to be way more powerful than someone’s who’s disgusted with their love handles and needs to get them off before the, before there. Uh, uh, you know, a bridesmaid in the wedding later this summer. And those, you know, those types of approaches I think are destined for failure and repeated failure because if you’re, you’re so disgusted that you failed, then why try again? And it just leads you down a dark hall.

Brad: 01:00:51 So now, um, what is the, uh, what does the future look like? Are you, you’re, you’re in this Keto groove. Um, are you going to be like the next Peter Attia who was like super hardcore every single day for three years? And now I ask him and he’s like, Nah, I’m too busy. I don’t want to, you know, I can’t be, I can’t be bothered. Which is such an interesting, um, insight where he was just, you know, plunging deep into this thing and now kind of optimized in a different way to align with, with busy life and feeling like, um, you know, maybe it is more trouble, but that’s what I like about your approach man. It’s like the simplicity and the stuff you said on the last podcast about just, you know, minimizing the decision fatigue by just having go to meals.

Brian: 01:01:36 I mean, I’ve taken, I did like a, you know, I’ve taken breaks. I thought about that. I was like, especially, you know, I’ve always, especially when Keto’s gotten, I mean, I guess I started doing it when it was popular as well. But like around January, just like the hype around that, you know, especially around New Year’s, I got so sick of it. I was like, it made me not want to be key to us. I was like, Oh, I’m going to try something else. And honestly it’s almost like having all the options. It’s almost like too much, too many options for me when that sounds stupid because I’m still on that whole primal world. But it’s a fine, I’ve been Keto for so long. It’s like I know exactly. I don’t think about it anymore. So when I open it up it’s like a constantly thinking about, oh what should I eat? Like we’re

Brad: 01:02:20 on, if you’re losing energy and listening to the podcast perk up a little bit cause we’re onto something really important here. And I’m going to weigh in saying like, I have a very easy time making commitments to things and devoting myself. I’m a competitive athletic minded person, but if you like give me an inch and say, I say to myself, yeah, I’m going to enjoy some popcorn cause I’m out of my strict Keto experiment and now I’m going to see how my body responds to this and that I will inhale that shit. And it’s kind of funny to observe that I guess I was deprived even though I didn’t have any trouble and I wasn’t obsessing about popcorn for 30 nights in a row. When it comes in and I make the decision that this is okay and I introduce all these variables that you’re talking about, it starts to get a little bit weird.

Brian: 01:03:06 It is not the, it’s not even that you’re probably overdo it, but I find myself less happy, like less satisfied with the choice, the more choices I have that’s psychologically edified by science. Yeah, I’ve definitely found that to be true. And it’s like, I just think of like, you know, when you go to In and Out of the menus, like so simple and there’s something very satisfying about it as opposed to, you know, you go to cheesecake factory and you’re paging through the menu. You’re like, God, what should I order? And it’s like, no matter what you order, you’re always like, ah, maybe I should have gotten that.

Brad: 01:03:38 What, what, how’s yours over there? Yeah. Do you want a bite? Here you go. Here’s a half a fork full. Yeah.

Brian: 01:03:45 So, I dunno, I just find I’m way, I just find my sort of satisfaction with my way of eating higher when I’m just sort of in this sort of stubborn Keto mindset and there’s, there’s not that many foods that I really, you know, miss or that don’t fit within it. So it’s like, I guess why I’m so used to it now. Why would I change?

Brad: 01:04:07 Yeah, it’s like a chocolate. Okay. Um, my whole life I indulge now and then starting as a kid with my favorite chocolate bars, like Mounds or Almond Joy and Nestle’s Crunch or whatever. And I think as an adult, I, I tone that down. But I remember years of, you know, going to trader Joe’s and getting a nice, I liked the Toblerone with the triangular shape, and that was my, that was my enjoyment of chocolate. And then into this, uh, you know, primal scene, now I’m, I’m a decade in, it was like, oh, oh, he’s supposed to eat dark chocolate, not milk chocolate. So I bought my first bar of dark chocolate and I was like, Eh, this tastes like cardboard. There’s no, there’s no sweetness. Chu, Chu Chu, I’m done. Um, but 10 years later, I’m a, a huge connoisseur of dark chocolate. I just presented you with the fabulous Thomas Keller, uh, bar that’s second to none and um, you know, searching around the world and learning more on the Internet and had the show with Teresa Rodriguez, uh, where she got into the details of how to select a good dark chocolate.

Brad: 01:05:10 And it’s like if you give me a bite of milk chocolate, I will want to spit it out. And I’m telling you this from the bottom of my heart. It’s like I can’t stay on that stuff because I have dehabituated from it. And you’re sort of de habituated from massive choices every morning to to glutton out and have, you know, the FivePoint all star breakfast where you get the, the, the buffet at the Ritz Carlton. That’s a, we always rip on those guys in the book cause it’s like 40 bucks for the healthy start or buffet and it’s got, um, whole wheat toast with apple butter, a freshly squeezed juice, oatmeal, uh, this and that. And it adds up to like 176 grams of carbs or something to just blast you to the, to the moon and then, you know, crash and burn. So I think it’s something really important for, for the listeners to consider, is that narrowing down your choices, gaining more satisfaction, reducing decision fatigue.

Brian: 01:06:05 I honestly think that’s why a lot of people do find as much success as they do with the Keto diet is, you know, cause honestly, you know, you could, you know, if you just, you know, track your calories and you know, weigh and measure everything, you could lose weight eating pretty much anyway. But it’s like, it’s, you know, that’s just not realistic and it’s, you know, this, the food environment we’re in today is, you know, very, it’s very hazardous, you know, for anybody to navigate. And then, you know, it was just sort of the narrowing of foods that, you know, the Keto Diet provides a sort of just this tool, you know, that people can, you know, have, and they know like, oh, I don’t eat that. And it’s, and you know, it, it’s working for people.

Brad: 01:06:50 Yeah. And it will come when it comes to the bad stuff. Uh, educating yourself, taking responsibility for your health and understanding that refined high polyunsaturated vegetable oils have been shown to create an instant disturbance in healthy cellular function at the DNA level such that they are compared unfavorably to smoking a cigarette. Dr Cate Shanahan is big on this where they’ve done research and I think they gave some healthy college subjects a dose of French fries and they had disturbed arterial function. They had stiffer, less fluid arterial function for 24 hours. Whereas if you smoke a cigarette, you screw up your cardiovascular system for like six or eight hours. And so just learning these insights and saying, okay, this stuff will kill me. We know that sugar will kill you. Now, Doctor Robert Lustig, Gary Taubes, the information is out. We don’t want to ignore it and, and make rationalizations like, hey, everything in moderation.

Brad: 01:07:45 But just like knowing that and owning it and then making a decision like, I don’t want to die and suffer like, like so many people are doing. So I can’t eat that. And so there’s no, you, you’ve, you know, decision has come from the Latin word does see the size and it means to cut away like incision decision, right? So you’ve cut away all the other options when you make a decision. And so, you know, we can, we can make a decision right now to say I’m not eating these, these things that I know to be harmful, harmful to my health. And it makes it so much easier. You’re not missing out anymore. There’s, there’s no more missing out because you’ve, you’ve gone onto a different path.

Brian: 01:08:27 Yeah. And even going back to the satisfaction part, like there’s a lot of creativity and sort of having like a more limited pallet, you know, when you had just have like, oh, I can only paint with, you know, these three crayon colors. It’s like, you know, if you have the whole box, it’s like you’re going to be, you’re like, which one do I use? But it’s like, you know, any person who does creative stuff, you know, realizes that some sort of constraints is useful. You know? And when you’re putting meals together, you’re like, oh, I just have these foods. How many combinations, you know, can I use this group of foods and you know, mix and match and create different things with them.

Brad: 01:09:01 Uh, so are you making fun of my youtube videos where I have slow motion, reverse different songs using all the features on a I iMovie or Adobe premiere elements. Like a real big shot check out this flick. Yeah. Just to tick the back and forth, back and forth. Yeah, no, it’s true. And um, I mean we, we got to start waking up and looking after our health, doing it right and seeing that big picture, especially as emphasized

Brad: 01:09:29 with getting the exercise, sleep and stress management right before we worry or stress too much about diet. Yeah. Yeah. Brian McAndrew killing it. What a great show. Now you’ve got to go listen to yourself. Wait, the worse, we didn’t make any mistakes. It’s recording. There’s no dubbing or anything. We nailed it. Thanks for, thanks for doing this. Thank you so much for listening and uh, go to Keto, reset.com learn more about the mastery course where more interviews of the, of a rich educational nature to help guide you along and avoid the silly mistakes that we covered a little bit today.

Brad: 01:10:08 Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback. Its getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars and it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.



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