Mia Moore returns to the show after a long absence to discuss relationship insights with her fiancée.

We get John Gray’s marching orders: males: don’t speak if you have a negative emotional charge; females: frame everything as requests instead of complaints. We reflect on Dr. Wendy Walsh’s insight that conflict is healthy for a relationship, wondering if we really need to go there, or is it possible to be more chill. Mia says it is, and we do a whole Breather show on how to be more chill in life and relationships. In working toward healthier communication patterns, we mention insights from John Gottman about achieving a ratio of 5:1 positive to negative comments, even during times of conflict (20:1 during routine daily life!). We relate Harville Hendrick’s suggestions for effective communication: emphasize safety, establish a zero communication policy, and deliver chronic affirmations.  

Mia mentions how Don Miguel Ruiz’s Four Agreements can help you be the best you can be, and bring out the best in your partner. Proper loading of the dishwater becomes an interesting central theme and metaphor for healthy relationship dynamics, including Mia Moore’s pure genius move of putting a new soap packet into the box right after unloading clean dishes, and how being told something once and executing every time is a winning relationship dynamic.  

We present an interesting philosophical question about relationship dynamics: Do you want a mature, authentic, dynamic adult relationship with conflict, frank discussion, negotiation-compromise-resolution, or do you just want a cheerleader to stand by and cheer you on?  When we reflect upon how difficult daily life is—work, school, kids, hectic, high-stress daily routines—the answer might very well be “cheerleader.” Mia and I reflect on this big question and also make an effort to refine the definition of cheerleader: not a meek, submissive partner of old-time stereotypes. Rather, a partner who delivers support and encouragement, especially when you might be a little discouraged and need it most. With this explanation, Mia argues that you can have both a cheerleader and an authentic partner. She says there’s nothing wrong with mature, authentic communication, including negotiation-compromise-resolution, but perhaps we do without conflict and negativity.  

Sounds reasonable, but Mia points out that some people get off on conflict for assorted reasons. It could be that conflict behavior delivers a payoff in the form of a hormonal burst and gets wired into an unconscious habit, or it could be replaying a familiar pattern from childhood. Witness how Dr. Bruce Lipton, author of Biology of Belief, states that we operating from subconscious programming 95-99 percent of the time. Mia Moore states that if you don’t stuff this about yourself, call the habitual patterns into your awareness, resolve to be more mindful about your communication, and Mia says, make a conscious choice for how to operate in a relationship.  

Reflect upon Mia show #1 where she reveals that decades ago, she made a conscious choice to never again engage in yelling in a relationship. Done deal. And what happens if stuff like this drifts into the picture again? We need to reflect on what are, or what should be, your relationship deal breakers. This will be the topic of an entire future show. 

When you are deserving of some honest feedback that’s not “rah rah” in nature, the feedback can be delivered with sensitivity and loving kindness. Recall noted author and relationship expert Dr. John Gottman’s data from the study of healthy, long-lasting romantic relationships: Even in times of conflict, healthy couples maintain a 5-to-1 ratio of positive comments to critical comments. During routine everyday life, the ratio looks more like 20-to-1! Gottman also says that arguments that come out of nowhere or seem to be about nothing merely represent a failed attempt to connect.  

Some tips for how to be a cheerleader:  

• Don’t keep score, just go all in. This means maybe second-guessing a concept like “50/50 share on housework” and the like.  
• Mars&Venus: Recall the great work of therapist and bestselling author John Gray: Males must learn to just listen when females are venting, instead of trying to solve their problems. Females must learn to give males their “cave time,” and they will return to the relationship and intimacy with fresh enthusiasm.  

 Relationship communication tips from Harville Hendricks: 

• Safety: you know you can speak your truth.
• Zero negativity policy: otherwise defenses go up. It’s not what you say it’s how you say it. you could bring up issues just say them gently. use a respectful tone of voice and eye contact instead of entitlement. 
• Chronic affirmations: helps support objective #1—safety. Permanent damage can be caused by relationship dynamics that generate fears and insecurities. 

Unfortunately, people today instead have a relationship baseline of power struggle and conflict, distraction, not much cheerleading. Are people afraid to be cheerleaders? Why?  Perhaps giving up your “side,” your self-sufficiency, tees you up for rejection and pain. In today’s high tech world, people may be averse to hitching their wagon to someone when they can slide or click to a new relationship opportunity at any time. Furthermore, economic opportunity for both males and females in modern life have altered the long-standing relationship dynamics to the extent the people may be more picky and choosy and, over time, more set in their ways and less willing to compromise.  

TIMESTAMPS: 

Brad and Mia discuss some of John Gray’s theory of how to balance a relationship by looking towards the bedroom. [06:33] 

What is important is that couples be on the same page. [08:31] 

The man doesn’t have to be a knight in shining armor. [10:37] 

It’s important to tune into your partner to figure out what they need. [11:59]

The emotional self-sufficiency of the individual is the number one attribute for a successful relationship. [14:17]

Every time we allow someone to move us with anger, we teach them to be angry. [17:14] 

If you have the baseline level of friendship and respect and both parties can give 100 percent;  that’s the real deal! [19:10]

Do you want a mature, authentic adult relationship where you have give and take, conflict, and conflict resolution? Or do you just want a f****ng cheerleader? [20:48]

Why do we tend to cut people down that we are close to? [22:47] 

Communication needs to be there in order to work well together. [30:29] 

When a person needs to address an issue with their partner, it is important to acknowledge appreciation of what they have done to your liking. [32:10] 

A couple of examples demonstrate a more positive way to get your needs met. [33:19] 

Back to the main advice:  LISTEN! [36:30] 

If a relationship is stuck at a certain level, it is probably missing love and respect. [40:06] 

Demonstrating how you want something done works well, even in the bedroom. [44:08] 

Safety in communication is essential. [46:15] 

Zero negativity is a good policy otherwise the defenses go up.  [47:47] 

LINKS: 

• Podcast with John Gray 
• John Gray 
• Harville Hendrix 
• John Gottman 

QUOTES: 

• “Every time we allow someone to move us with anger, we teach them to be angry.” 
• “Permanent damage can be caused by relationship dynamics that generate fears and insecurities.” 

LISTEN:

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author, an athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balance that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go:

Mia: 03:41 Testing. One two, three testing.

Brad: 03:44 That would be Mia Moore. Welcome back to the show.

Mia: 03:49 Thanks for having me back, Bradley.

Brad: 03:51 It’s been a long time. Have you been listening? What do you think?

Mia: 03:56 Of course I’ve been listening.

Brad: 03:59 You’re busy, but you’re, you’re squeezing it in just like everybody on podcasts, Huh?

Mia: 04:03 Well I’ve loved the, I love that relationship shows that you’ve had, you know it Doctor Wendy Walsh and John Gray.

Brad: 04:14 That’s becoming a favorite topic of mine. I think there, um, you’re a big part of that cause we’re enjoying this relationship. And uh, since the last recording, uh, let’s see, we got engaged.

Mia: 04:27 We did. That was a surprise. It was unexpected. I mean not, I shouldn’t say an expected cause we’ve talked about it but not at that moment. That’s what the surprise. But it was

Brad: 04:42 Was that because it was at baggage claim or no?

Mia: 04:46 I mean, but no, that was very, that’s what I was saying. It’s very cute cause there was pretty much the scene of where we met Kinda. I don’t if the listeners know that we met on the plane, on a plane, Southwest Airlines flying from SMF to be, you are,

Brad: 05:02 thank you Southwest.

Mia: 05:04 And uh, you proposed at a Burbank baggage claim. It’s interesting when you picked me up. So, uh, yeah.

Brad: 05:14 Okay. Let me ask you. Oh, you can speaking for all, uh, people who have been proposed to it doesn’t have to be male, female. Usually it is for some reason I was waiting for you to propose to me. Just kidding. Um, was, was a surprise, uh, did that like, uh, enhance it? Is that important or would you think, oh, we’re going out to Valentine’s Day on this really fancy restaurant? That’s my favorite. I think I’m going to get proposed to. And is that just a special, I don’t know.

Mia: 05:42 No. I mean maybe young women in their 20s think like that. Like when they feel that moment should be coming and they plan it, but a woman my age probably doesn’t think that way. I would say I don’t, but I don’t know.

Brad: 05:59 But we were laughing afterwards because we didn’t have like the, you know, perfected staged event. Like I did put a hidden camera out there and my friends could not even watch through the video because they were laughing so hard that the, the pole, the structure of the building was in the way of your face. So we couldn’t see your reaction. Yeah. That’s, and then you said later, oh, I should have said a thousand times. Yes. Like in the movies, but uh,

Mia: 06:26 that I should’ve scripted my response,

Brad: 06:28 right.

Mia: 06:30 Nope. But it has to be natural. 11. Okay.

Brad: 06:33 So we have all these notes and great things to talk about. Um, but we also decided that we didn’t want to be too, um, you know, uh, scripted here and make it sound stiff. We just wanted to get rolling. And so the first thing I wanted to mention was the listener feedback about the first Mia Moore show. And I read you those emales and little, little bits in here and they’re like, hey, love that show. That was cool. So that’s, you know, we get that good support feedback. But one listener, uh, took the time to write in and say that he was talking, it was a male listeners. So he was talking to a female friend who was really stressed and they’re having a pretty serious relationship impasse about a major thing. And he says, well, I listened to on a podcast where this advice from Mia Moore was maybe some of those matters can be settled in your bedroom, what happens? And then he reported back that she, she, she came back to the, the listener and said went very well. The thing has been resolved. Thanks to your suggestion through, through the, uh, through the show. So positive feedback from listeners,

Mia: 07:36 Rght? I mean, I think it’s important because it helps sometimes when couples are in disagreement, they forget about or they get away from why they’re together. When you take it to the bedroom, you forget. Everything else is kind of, you know, immaterial.

Brad: 07:54 Well, after my John Gray show with beyond Mars and Venus insights where he was talking about the hormonal underpinnings of relationship, success and conflict, I’m now appreciating that kind of commentary further because this, you know, this genetic drive, these need to balance our hormones. And Wendy Walsh talked about the driving factors, the top three relationship attributes a woman’s looking for in a man, even though she says otherwise she can’t help it because her biological drive and all those kinds of things. So maybe we should pay more, more respect and attention to that.

Mia: 08:32 I think what matters is that the couple is on the same page. So not so much that you know, whether you have to have sex as a, you know, 80 year old or, or whether it’s bad not to. I think you just have to be on the same page. I’ve seen many happy couples that are, you know, older in their eighties, nineties holding hands in a loving each other and stuff. But you know, these are people I know, but they may not be intimate anymore, but they don’t need that. I mean, they still have that intimacy of years and years of experiences and memories with each other. Right. But they’ve been through, and then you’ve got other couples where sex is important. But what’s difficult is when you’re on different sides of the fence, you’ve got, uh, you know, one of the partners wants to have sex more frequently than the other, then that, that’s where, that’s, that’s a tough time.

Brad: 09:28 That part seems like it’s, we’re, we’re talking about symptoms and not addressing the cause.

Mia: 09:35 Right.

Brad: 09:35 Like who doesn’t want to be the best they can be and have the maximum potential of relationship. But then I see in, in, um, people that are, let’s say healthy specimens that are capable of, um, you know, intimacy, but they’ve formed up walls and blocks and the stresses of the day prevent them from being the best couple of that they can be. And then it comes out that, oh, one one person wants sex more than the other, but I’m like, wait a second.

Mia: 10:04 Right. It’s usually they’re not, there’s something not right in the relationship in those situations is always, yeah. Like just like you said, yeah, there’s always a cause or there’s something going on.

Brad: 10:20 Yeah. Like some thick headed dude that’s only in one, you know, at level three of existence thinking that, um, his female partner is just there for, you know, um, for, for his selfish needs or something and not paying attention to, again, the John Gray insight, like,

Mia: 10:37 which I love because I so agree with what he was saying. Remember we’ve had our discussions when the female just wants to be heard, right? Or, you know, just listen, you don’t have to tell me what to do. You don’t have to be my knight in shining armor coming to my rescue. Just hear what I have to say, let me vent and then, you know, I’ll figure it out. Right. But I just, sometimes you just need to, to vent and then just hear yourself speak. I can sometimes solve my own problem in a issues. Right?

Brad: 11:12 Well, apparently solving the issue at hand is to rebalance your hormones after a tough male hormone, dominant testosterone, dominant workday where it’s competitive and you’re solving problems and seeking a objectives and all that. And then the, the female side wants to connect and, and, and talk. And so if you didn’t listen to the show, go back and listen to the show. But the male’s job at that point is to sit there and listen intently and validate instead of, you know, contrary to the males primary drivers to be the knight in shining armor to solve all the problems and go, what you should say to your boss is blah blah, blah. That’s going to, that’s going to dig a deeper hole. And the cause of disconnect with the couple pretty simple stuff. But we have trouble executing I guess,

Mia: 11:59 right? I guess that’s where it comes up. People talk about, you know, relationships are hard and I’d always um, with scratch my head is like, well, why? Because I didn’t feel it. Relationships should be hard. Like if you’re on the right page, if they have the same goal in mind. And I mean, I just don’t see that. But I think what people mean by that is you’re always having to be attentive to your partner. Right? And someone may, your partner may need something from you that you just have to be a, what’s the word in tuned to your partner? I guess in that respect. It’s just not like every day you wake up in the sun is shining and you’re, you know, holding hands and skipping along. I mean, that would be nice, but it really isn’t. But I still don’t think it should be hard. I mean, I think it should be hard, but not conflict there. I don’t think there needs to be conflict and they relationship because they need, you know, um, you need to be able to resolve things if you’re both, and that same level of, I’ll call it emotional maturity, I don’t know what you, or relationship maturity, whatever you want to call it. I don’t know if there’s a word. If you’re at that same level, there’s shouldn’t be conflict.

Brad: 13:28 It shouldn’t be hard.

Mia: 13:30 No it could be hard. To me, there’s a difference between hard and close work battling it out

Brad: 13:37 for sure.

Mia: 13:39 Hard. It’s just the issues that come up and the day that you need to, you know, overcome. And they may not be relationship issues. Right, right. You know, the, the man and the woman, they may just be relationships of the family or of you know, life in general. But um, but as far as conflict, yeah, I don’t, I feel like a relationship if you’re an emotionally, you know, uh, mature or how do you want to comment a couple that shouldn’t be an issue.

Brad: 14:17 Hey, you’re, you’re, you’re squinting when you say that. But that’s, that’s beautiful because, and then Chris Gauge on the medium writes this all the time. That emotional self sufficiency of the individual is the number one attribute for a successful relationship. And there is no number two until the, to each part of the couple has emotional self sufficiency and emotional stability. Without that, the relationship is bound to crumble because the individual who is not stable and they’re going to below and compromise the relationship values.

Mia: 14:50 That’s correct.

Brad: 14:52 So if you, what’s the read that definition?

Mia: 14:58 Well, for me, emotional maturity is the ability to handle a situation without escalating it, without being angry, without blaming the other person, right? For our own behavior. Because people do that all the time. They’ll blame someone else for our behavior. Our reaction. Right? That’s to me, that’s emotional maturity. Um, you fixed, he tried to fix the problem, right?

Brad: 15:26 Um, emotional maturity. Again, John Gray summarizing his book and what he talked about in the show is males, your assignment is to never speak if you have an emotional charge, do not speak, shut the F up, go away, go into your cave as he calls it and only speak to the female when you’re in a, uh, a positive state where you can express your appreciation because females want to be appreciated. The female in a counter, cause I don’t want to just,

Mia: 15:57 This is what I was just going to say that. What about the female who’s always nagging on the right?

Brad: 16:02 The female assignment……..

Mia: 16:04 When she’s angry and raises her voice because he didn’t do this, that or the other.

Brad: 16:08 Um, never use a complaining tone of voice. The man wants to be the knight in shining armor. He wants to know that you count on him and all those things. So even minor things. Again, this is John Gray insight. Even minor things will bug the shit out of him because he wants to be seen as, you know, the, that someone you can trust and count on. So those are two signs of emotional maturity, emotional self sufficiency that I have the, the presence of mind to walk away when I sense a negative emotional charge. And then on the female side, um, you’re allowed to state your preferences. We’re not talking about hey be a doormat and let you tell your man he’s a hero when he’s watching Monday night football and, and you know, the, the, the, the pizza boxes of spilled out onto the new carpet.

Mia: 16:57 It’s not just Monday night football. I could also be Sunday afternoon golf.

Brad: 17:02 Oh, causing us to run late for our dinner appointment because Justin Thomas had a key Putney, he missed it and that was it, man. That was a tournament.

Mia: 17:14 Going back to what you were saying, I was immature. I was at the airport or somewhere, I read this thing, it was on a car that said, every time we allow someone to move us with anger, we teach them to be angry. That’s something that interesting?

Brad: 17:31 To move us?

Mia: 17:33 Right? So when you react, someone’s angry at you and you react back, you have, are you responding to whatever you’re teaching them to be angry. But instead if you just retreat and just walk away with just, isn’t that what John Gray was saying? If they won’t do that.

Brad: 17:49 Yeah, he said listen up to the point that you feel yourself getting defensive. And this probably goes in both directions, but he was speaking to the male like the male needs to listen and hear the female, the female is supposed to express her preferences in short sentences, in a positive tone. So I was talking about the Monday night football and the pizza boxes or me watching one more put on the golf tournament and making us late. So you express your preferences at a certain point and then there’s a chance of them being absorbed and accepted and having the relationship grow. But as soon as we get defensive, so as soon as the male senses defensiveness coming up and the assignment is to say, I hear you. And then the proceed to walk away, not to be chased by the female that wants to continue to, uh, nag and nitpick while the male’s not in a, uh, you know, supportive place,

Mia: 18:41 right? Those two situations, right? They’re usually you, um, no one’s listening to the other person, you know, the, the, the man watching Monday night football or the golf, that last putt on the, you know, the 18 pole. There are so in tuned to what that moment is, here’s the woman nagging at them. They don’t hear it. Then that listening and then here’s the woman getting more and more upset, right? Because they’re not being acknowledged.

Brad: 19:10 Okay. So unwinding this stuff, I feel like we might’ve mentioned this in the first show, but if we have that baseline level of friendship especially and respect, regardless of what our scoreboard is on our relationship, like, and when I hear people say 50, 50, I mean, I remember this got, uh, refuted aggressively in a seminar I went to, like I goes, 50 50 is a bunch of bullshit. You give 100%. The relationship, the other person gives 100% and whatever the scoreboard is, you know, if someone’s bed ridden with an illness or whatever’s going on, um, it’s not 50 50 anymore and you’ve got a problem with that, then you’re not in, you’re not all in with 100% and you’re going to, you’re going to struggle and suffer if you ever go to that scoreboard. And I was like, wow, that’s pretty heavy. Cause usually we’re socialized to think it’s 50, 50 in the house and I am, I do the same amount of housework and the same amount of is my wife, I’m an evolved husband.

Mia: 20:10 Well I don’t even know. Um, it’s really 100% by both parties all the time. They’re going to be times when one individual is giving 125% because the other individual is just giving 75% for whatever reason, when you’re not feeling well or you’re too stressed and have too much going on at the office, there’s always going to be, I think one person doing more than the other. And that’s okay. As long as it’s not always the same person doing more. Right. So,

Brad: 20:48 Well, we had some other, uh, hot items to talk about. One of them was this cheerleader concept, brought it up briefly in the first show, but this was a, uh, insight presented to me. I think going back to what you said about do we have to have conflict, is it a necessary element of a relationship? And the question posed to me was, work, do you want a mature, authentic adult relationship where you have give and take and conflict and conflict resolution? Or do you just want to f….ng cheerleader to stand to the side and clap for you? And I know it’s like, uh, we both, we both

Mia: 21:25 Cheerleader and I said, why not a cheerleader? Right? Yeah. Because, yeah, I don’t, I don’t, I sure don’t want to be in a relationship, like I said earlier, that’s just conflict driven. I mean, who wants that?

Brad: 21:39 Right. And back to that example of, uh, you need to vent to your partner without the partner offering solutions and advice and unsolicited, all that kind of stuff. Um, you know, the cheerleaders, like I support you, I love you how you are or you can do it. I believe in you. Let me know how I can support you. I can support you in any way. But that’s a whole lot different than going down that other path. Like, uh, well, you know, if you just were not so lazy on the weekend, you wouldn’t have these complaints and all those kinds of things that chip away at it. They open heart and the relationship

Mia: 22:16 Right? Our studies show that only 2% of folks, uh, succeed in whatever thing you’re trying to do. Right. Instead of saying, you know, go for it. I’m here for you. You know, and, and, and I’m cheering you on.

Brad: 22:32 Oh Man. So that this, you know, this is getting, this is getting heavy because I need to ask you like, why do we do that to the people closest to us? Why do we cut them down a little bit?

Mia: 22:47 I Dunno. Does it go back to I mean, even growing up? I mean, we tend to be tougher with our siblings, with our parents or with our kids because we know the love is there and will never, um, you know, you love someone regardless, especially when you’re related. Right? And then when you’re in a loving relationship, you the same thing. You feel like they’re there regardless, they’re not going anywhere. Right. And I think people have to, and not that you should be running around tippy toeing around your relationships at any point in time. I think it’s good that you feel like the relationship is there and you have a solid foundation. But we also have to remember to be, you know, caring to, you know, um, say loving, be loving and caring to our significant others.

Brad: 23:44 How about kid example? What comes up for me when I see the classic and Little League parent who’s, you know, dispensing criticism to their kid. And so many people are carrying this with them their whole entire lives and they’re, they’re carrying psychological traumas. Wendy Walsh said, we’re playing out childhood traumas. That’s why we choose the bad boy over and over. And then you go, like on Harry met Sally, the classic scene where the lady’s complaining about, um, the, the, the, the, the man she’s having an affair with that. He’s, he hasn’t left her, his wife and then they were friends say, you know, he’s never going to leave her. She goes, I know, I know, but she just complains over and over. And so we repeat these patterns or we go and take the punishment dating back to, um, you know, unhealed childhood traumas.

Mia: 24:31 That’s true.

Brad: 24:33 So how do we, uh, how do we get to that, uh, that, that default cheerleader mode and avoid the pattern behavior that turns into conflict? Like, oh, only 2% of writers actually make money selling a book. So why are you wasting your time on that? 2% of podcasters, right? There’s 450,000 podcasts on, on iTunes now. Something like that. And you know, a few years ago, there was 80,000 and a few years before that there was 82 or whatever. But, um, there was some stat that was encouraging to, to podcasters out there that like some huge percent, like 70% are dormant. In other words, there’s this many podcasts and this one had eight episodes published in 2015 and they’re just sitting there. So it’s like, hey, welcome to our first relationship podcast. It’s Brad and Mia. How are you guys doing out there? And then you do four shows and then you go on with your life. So it’s not, it’s not as crowded as we think.

Mia: 25:34 That’s good news. That’s why we’re cranking out no matter what, even on vacation, we’re, we’re sitting in front of the mic.

Mia: 25:41 That’s right. Here we are in beautiful. The sun’s out. Scottsdale, Arizona. Although I thought it was going to be warmer, but come back in the summer as the lady said in the parking lot, you don’t want to be here in July and August. Otherwise it’s beautiful. I love it. I’m from Connecticut,

Mia: 25:59 Right, right. So,

Brad: 26:03 The question comes, how do we extricate if we’re, uh, you know, if some of these things are hitting home, like we’re keeping score instead of just going 100%. All in. I was thinking of the word resentment coming up and that’s why we repeat these patterns and that’s why, uh, the person says, Eh, only 2% of novelists make money. So what the WHO, who do you think you are? Those kinds of things are coming from a place of pain,

Mia: 26:29 Right? Right. With that member. What caused all that? I mean, you can’t analyze every single relationship out there, but there’s always basically it’s some kind of disappointment and that one person, they’re disappointed about something. Either the man they married isn’t the man they thought they were marrying or, or vice versa, or the woman they married, you know, isn’t who they thought that person is going to be. And that’s when that’s somewhat, we’re projecting onto someone else what we shouldn’t, you know, we shouldn’t be projecting our own little, uh, beliefs onto other people that, that, uh, the wife or the husband that’s been projected right onto, they have no idea. They’re innocent little bystanders, really think about it. Right?

Brad: 27:22 Um, sometimes it might be more clear than other times, like your, your father was mean to you and criticize you and now you’re taking it out on me. Like sometimes that comes up and it’s probably an accurate insight, but again, it’s not the ideal way to dispense the message. So the message is not heard and the person is defensive and says, you’re, you’re crazy. You don’t know. You’re talking about, I’m over that. Now. I’m not, I’m not projecting that into my treatment of view at all. And then we’re not, we’re not having a productive conversation anymore.

Mia: 27:54 Well, that’s where I think, um, therapy helps out. I mentioned that in the other show. I really believe in, you know, the power of speaking to someone, a professional or maybe it’s not a professional. Maybe it’s just, uh, a friend of the couple that can hear and bring a different perspective. Um, I think that’s very valuable.

Brad: 28:20 So then you have a fresh perspective. You have, uh, uh, some inspiration to make things better.

Mia: 28:25 Right? Cause it has to come from someone else, not your partner. Right.?You’re ready not agreeing with their partner. So regardless of what, why is anecdotes your partner’s telling you you are reading to from the internet or what have you, that’s not going to work. It has to be someone else.

Brad: 28:43 Okay. So let’s say the person returns, uh, from there, uh, three day business trip with plenty of time for soul searching and comes back and says, I want things to be better between us and let’s have a conversation about it. You said communication is key i. The first show, right? So how do we go about disagree with me on now it’s important.

Brad: 29:03 Who disagrees with you or just people in general.

Mia: 29:06 Yeah. I thought you said when one of your, one of the folks I think was it doctor Wendy Walsh. It doesn’t agree in that.

Brad: 29:13 Oh, she said that, um, conflict is a necessary and healthy component of relationship that helps the couple grow. And we can argue semantics here. Um, but I do think that you have a point there, like there’s, there’s some personal preferences involved and let me know what we define as conflict is like, um, raising voice, yelling, using, um, critical, uh, attacking commentary I feel like has no place in a relationship and knew you agree also and maybe the next people down the line, you know, the feisty couple that likes to make up sex and then come here, baby. I love you. I know you can do your novel. I believe in you now even though I ripped on you yesterday and that kind of crap is, um, maybe some people are okay with it. I don’t know. And maybe, maybe it serves, you know, I’ve seen high conflict couples and action and you could see there was some magic in there where they weren’t taking that stuff personally. They were able to weather and absorb it and they maybe knew it was coming from a supportive place. But nevertheless, I don’t like it. I don’t want it in my life. So that’s my preference.

Mia: 30:19 Right.

Brad: 30:20 For example, what works for you? Like what works well when a partner is coming to you with a relationship discussion.

Mia: 30:29 Yeah, that’s difficult because I think I can get defensive as well. I mean, if, if you were going to approach me and say, you know, I need to talk to you about something well right away cause right away I know something’s coming right. Maybe we are just so funny. No, it’s truth. Exactly what I need. You know, I have something to say

Brad: 30:56 says would come to me and my various career tribulations. It would always be like, hey got a sec. Right? Sure. I have a sec for your boss. And I’d be like, Oh crap. You know?

Mia: 31:07 Oh that sounds like the spouse, right? The husband or the wife spring cleaning after the husband. Do you have a minute? You know, and then the brings into the kitchen, right? To show how you, um, you loaded the dishwasher wrong or something. Oh yeah. So you say, you know what works for me, why I think this works. You tell me like that’s, I think one of our little pet peeves does that. And that’s just not ours I’ve been talking to, you know, my friends and colleagues and they all will agree their pet peeve is loading the dishwasher and how, I dunno why it’s always, it’s mainly the women who have a certain way of loading the dishwasher that’s consistent with every load of dishes, you know,

Brad: 31:56 Vastly superior spatial talents to the male.

Mia: 31:59 Oh, now thank you for saying that.

Brad: 32:02 The interior design. We’ll walk into an empty room. You know what furniture you have, your brain is locking in. Okay. And I’m like this big enough to fit a couch, you know?

Mia: 32:10 Right. Yeah. The guy would just throw dishes then and you know, we should be thankful that he did throw it.

Brad: 32:18 Oh, thanks for mentioning that. Right.

Mia: 32:21 So what I do is I think, I think once, maybe I mentioned it to you, but that’s it. After that I would just rearrange the dishes because you know, I’ll open the dishwasher not and to put in an extra load. And then I’ll see that you had, you were, I’m happy that you helped me by loading the dishes previously. Um, but there’s no more room from my, the rest of the dishes because they were loaded haphazardly so I just rearrange them. And then the nice, neat, orderly manner that I need them to be in second, throw in more dishes in and I closed it. Then hopefully you’ll be the one unloading the dishes and this thing and you’ll see

Brad: 33:05 The frontal lobe will engage and go, Jeez, I can put all the dishes, all the uh, the, the cereal bowls away at the same time cause they’re all in the same row. Amazing how that happened. I wonder if it’s like

Mia: 33:16 a random top on the bottom on the side. Yeah.

Brad: 33:19 You know what, this little exchange, to me, I think you said some really profound things and I appreciate it because first of all, you acknowledge that you appreciate me just loading stuff in the dishwasher. And then the other thing I thought about what this exact example it was, that example was that insight of pure genius that you taught me where you put the, the soap thing into the dispenser immediately after the dishes are clean. So you load a new soap as soon as the dishes are clean and we empty them. So an empty dishwasher always has fully loaded soap. My mom similarly efficient, has the sign on the counter that says clean on one side and dirty on one side. And I always forget to twist it around to the right side. But your thing, like I have so much trust that you know what you’re doing and you mean business and there’s a reason instead of just a, what do you call it, like random, uh, it, you know, unbridled energy that’s a frenetic and you’re, you’re OCD about things and it’s like, no, she likes the dishwasher loaded this way. She puts the soap in this way and it makes so much sense. And so, you know, I feel like I can take your feedback so well baseline because we have great friendship and trust and respect for each other. And I know you appreciate me and I know I’m, I’m slobbing out at times on the dishwasher.

Brad: 34:38 So that’s the only chance that you’re going to get me to evolve as a person is to come from that place that you’re describing. Right. And then me being myself, but also I’m speaking for millions of men out there who are both head and thinking. She should just be appreciative that I threw a dish there anyway, or whatever nonsense depending. Yes.

Mia: 34:58 And we are appreciative. We just want it. We want them rinsed first and then put it away and we want them put away in a certain order. So like you said on them, I’m glad to notice that so that they’re easier to unload. Right.

Brad: 35:14 And this is like a metaphoric for everything, man. It’s for borrowing the car and parking it, uh, at an angle on the driveway. Remember that Wendy Walsh, a anecdote where she said, you know, the, the man parks the car crooked four times in a row and so the woman comes home, can’t get her car in the garage. And her comment was maybe, and I don’t, I’m not going to position her like don’t have to agree or disagree. It was just an interesting insight. Like maybe the woman should be appreciative that she has a fricking garage to park in. And I’m like, wow, you know, and maybe the man should park his car straight after being asked four times. But if, if both of them have like the, the man has a desire hopefully to not block his wife out. And so the wife comes in and says, hi honey, how are you doing? Hold on. Before I talk, let me grab your keys and straighten your car out so I can go in the garage. And it’s, it’s dispense in this loving, you know, a peaceful thing. I’m going to bet on the man that he’s gonna park straighter. And I’m going to bet on the woman that when she goes in with that tone of voice and that sort of appreciation that maybe something was on his mind and he was, he was spacing out again cause he’s a, uh, a rocket scientist and he, he’s very linear and so he wasn’t thinking about it but you know, well here on the fifth time is someone crack?

Mia: 36:30 That’s right. But you know what’s interesting is that was he really, did he hear her? All five times. I’m curious now, was he busy thinking about the, you know, the, the score of the game during the, the first time she said something and then the second time his mind was thinking about, you know, something at the office. So he heard her talking but he wasn’t listening right now may school just so they could be, that’s what’s been happening all along and that he didn’t intentionally park forgetfully.. Just not really saying to her or it’s either that or the opposite, that there’s some resentment going on in that relationship that he don’t care and he’s going to keep parking crooked cause these mad about something. And that’s where you need to have that communication, I feel like.

Brad: 37:25 Yeah. And you know what I’m going to say like you, you got me good on this sort of topic. And it was, I’ll never forget it because it was about the, the loading the soap and the dishwasher again. And I forgot that. I said, that’s great. That’s pure genius. I love that. And then a week later I forgot and it was like, hey, are these dirty or clean? Oh shoot, I forgot. And you said something like, well, um, you know, I told you. And so if you tell me something once, and I remember it, so I would appreciate if you did the same. And then I, and I thought for a second, I’m like, shit, she’s right. I tell you something once and you remember it without fail. And so I think I have a unique partner. That’s why I love you. Like you’re, you’re, you’re, you have a high, high score on relationships, you’re the best partner.

Brad: 38:12 And it’s, it’s no joke. If you tell me something once and I’m going 100% in and I’m walking my talk, why would I forget it? That means I don’t care. It means I don’t care enough. It means I don’t respect, you know, the importance of, uh, of an orderly dishwasher enough for, for whatever reason. Maybe there’s resentment like you just described. Um, and I’m gonna say it like I was saying in my defense, like, Oh yeah, I’m, I’m really busy and I was multitasking and look how many dishes I did. But you know what, that’s, I realize that’s not good enough. And when I tell that story to whomever, my boss, my coworkers like, oh, sorry, it’s, the draft is almost done and it’s almost on time. Here it is. It’s pretty awesome. Check it out. No, that’s not good enough.

Mia: 39:02 But it’s not just me. I think most women are that way. You only tell them something once and they generally remember.

Brad: 39:12 Really.

Mia: 39:12 My, and I don’t know, I shouldn’t be stereotyping in men versus women, but I mean I think there is some validity, validity to that. And men in general, you have to tell them more than once.

Brad: 39:27 Let’s let that float out there and see what the listener’s think. Email us with your, your comments, GetOverYourselfPodcast@gmail.com we’ll, we’ll, we’ll tally it up. Okay. So we’re, we’re making progress now. We’ve mentioned how if you, if you have that baseline level of respect and I appreciate your, um, efficiency and the, the, the genius of doing the dishwasher the right way. So I’m open to feedback and I sincerely appreciate it. And then we, we extend that out into whatever the topic is.

Mia: 40:03 All right. Um,

Brad: 40:06 Why is that so difficult to go from, from level one to level two to level three? Why do we keep getting pushed back?

Mia: 40:14 What I describe, I don’t know what you mean by level two. Level three.

Brad: 40:18 Well, I’m just making that up. Like the relationship is at the highest possible level or it’s kind of like, oh, how’s Jerry? Eh, he’s alright. He still plays too much golf on the weekend, is messy in the kitchen. And I’ve asked him a few times and I’m about to give up and just get resentful to the rest of my life.

Mia: 40:34 Okay. So I think the reason it’s difficult is because that relationship that can’t get to the next level is probably missing love and respect. Cause when you have love and respect, that’s how you get to the level two, level three. But those other relationships may just be, you know, they like each other. You know, it’s, it’s passing time, you know, if, but it’s not, um, uh, I mean even with married couples, you know, there could be people that are married but they didn’t marry for the right reasons and they’re just kind of living the life, but not so much with, they’re not all in.

Brad: 41:23 Hmm. Yeah. I feel that we have so much distraction and so much stress and so much adverse health that maybe we physically don’t have the energy to bring that all in. Uh, you know, ideal relationship partner, high, high value relationship partner, which maybe you did for, um, the first, uh, 24 months when the dopamine levels were through the roof. And so you were always at your best and buying flowers every time you saw the, the partner, and then you settle back down into a really stressful job and a lot of distraction nowadays so that we’ve never had before in the history of the planet where we can have our minds disengaged from, from the physical room that we’re in.

Mia: 42:10 Right. with an Iphone or a Samsung. Yeah. Yeah. But I still think that a couple that has, uh, has emotional maturity regardless of the stresses in life, um, can still be that loving, respectful with each other regardless of what’s happening at the workplace or, or with their children. It’s just have to, you know, make that conscious decision or, or effort.

Brad: 42:44 Oh, you set the word conscious and I’m thinking of Bruce Lipton Biology Belief, researching this for the book about longevity that Mark Sisson and I are working on. And he’s the guy who, uh, pioneers this concept that your thoughts can manifest your reality and affect your cells at the [inaudible] cells and end genetic functions just by your thoughts. So if you think of yourself as old and worn out, then you’re going to manifest that with your cellular function. And alternatively you can form new beliefs about life and noticeable and will manifest as well. And he says that 95 to 95% of our existence is subconscious. Just tapes playing out a lot of it dating back to ages zero to six when our programming was at a high level. And then we’re just, we’re just operating on autopilot our whole lives. So in this relationship where you walk in the door and you know that your partner’s going to start nitpicking and you know that you’re going to head to the TV and tune the partner out. Or I’m going to be loading the dishwasher and a mindless manner cause I’m thinking or listening to something else now that I can be distracted at all times. So bring it into your consciousness and saying, I’m going to make a conscious effort, drive my car in the garage, close the door, take a deep breath and bring my, bring my best to the partnership.

Mia: 44:08 Right.

Brad: 44:09 That’s all I’m thinking of. John Gottman, a great relationship expert talking about the, the study of healthy couples that maintain a romantic spark for decades and they’re reporting that everything’s great and he observes them in routine daily interactions with a ratio of 20 to one positive comments to negative comments.

Mia: 44:38 20 to one wow.

Brad: 44:41 Yeah, Iin times of conflict. So when they are getting into something and there’s a contentious issue to discuss, it’s five to one. It’s till five to one.

Mia: 44:51 Wow. Yeah.

Brad: 44:53 So talk about if someone’s complaining about not being heard and the advice from John Gray females don’t dispense if things in a critical manner state, everything is a preference and couch that sandwich that, that request. I wish you, you know, I love it when you do the dishes, you do them one day out of every 27. I love when you come in and surprise me in the kitchen and do the dishes. Just the way I love that you paint the house, fix the pipes, uh, mow the lawn that has a chance to land.

Mia: 45:27 Right. And do we stayed our preference at the same time. I prefer that you love them this way though. That I don’t know if that’s where it came from.

Brad: 45:36 Oh, it’s, I mean that makes a good example. Like, Hey, I love when you’re in the kitchen cleaning up. That’s so awesome. Um, it’s, you know, it’s a treat to see you helping and with the dishwasher, this is what I prefer. I like that.

Mia: 45:54 I think maybe just, hey, let’s do the dishes together and then you can, they can, you know, you can see me loading the dishes.

Brad: 46:02 I like that cause it’s not, you know, hey, you’re going to show me your preference, right. Oh, that could work in the bedroom too. Oh yeah. Yeah, that does actually.

Mia: 46:12 Right. I’d say so.

Brad: 46:15 It means instead of a complaint. Okay. Um, here’s some from Harville Hendrix now that we trying to get to this conclusion of turning things around maybe and, and getting, getting back to a higher level. Right. So he says that the, the three essentials for communication in a relationship, number one is safety. Knowing that you can speak your truth.

Mia: 46:45 I like that. That’s, I believe in

Brad: 46:48 What would be the opposite?

Mia: 46:52 Being criticized when you speak your truth, it’d been diminished, right? Made Fun of.

Brad: 47:01 Right. Um, speaking of, made fun of, we’ve talked about this offline before too. Like you can observe around how these cute little funny jokes are tinge to it. There’s always, you know, it’s not really a joke when you are teasing somebody. Some truth.

Mia: 47:19 Yeah. Masked in there, right? Yeah.

Brad: 47:23 We both, I don’t think we’ve, I don’t know if we’ve had an occasion where we had to address it, but we both like have it or talk about it. It’s like, yeah, you know, when they, uh, or just, you know, when people have teased me throughout my life about this, that, or the other thing, there was some charge behind it and I picked it up and I had that sensitivity to it. And you are, you relate the same thing.

Mia: 47:45 Yeah.

Brad: 47:47 Okay. Number two from Harville Hendrix is a zero negativity policy because otherwise the defenses go up. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. You can bring up issues, but just say them gently use a respectful tone of voice and eye contact instead of a sense of entitlement.

Mia: 48:07 Ooh, no, I agree with that. I agree with that.

Brad: 48:11 What does he mean by sense of entitlement?

Mia: 48:16 Like you feel like because you’re the, the spouse, you should be able to say whatever you feel like saying. I think that’s what they’re saying. Or because you’re the parent, right? They should be able to say whatever, you know, criticize the child. Right? I think that’s what he’s talking about. I don’t know.

Brad: 48:35 Taking things for granted. Yeah. For Real.

Mia: 48:40 MMM.

Brad: 48:42 Number three, chronic affirmations. While these things all flow together, like did the same thing John Grace didn’t said in different words. And same with, um, uh, Gottman. So chronic inflammations helps support the number one objective of safety, right? Yeah. Um, permanent damage can be caused by relationship dynamics that generate fears and insecurities,

Mia: 49:08 Right? It’s, I guess by not doing the things they talked about earlier, that’s how you can get into that kind of relationship.

Brad: 49:15 The safety of safety, zero negativity policy and chronic inflammation.

Mia: 49:20 Right?

Brad: 49:20 So do them. In summary, we’ve dispensed a lotta a lot of insights. It’s possible to be a cheerleader, right? Oh, males do not speak with an emotional charge. Shut the F up. Go Away. Wait until you can come back and state your preferences and it calm state. Females don’t use a complaining tone of voice. Don’t Nag or nitpicked state. Everything has a preference. And then, uh, the communication piece is key. So when we, when we’re working through these things, um, wouldn’t hurt to have a 20 to one positive to negative comments and in general life and then even when something is going down five to one, right? Uh, and then back down to um, the safety, zero negativity policy and chronic affirmations.

Mia: 50:15 But the most important is taking it to the bedroom.

Brad: 50:21 Thank you for listening to the Mia Moore show.

Brad: 50:26 Thank for listening to the show. We would love your feedback. At getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.

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