(Breather) “Mindless positivity isn’t practical or helpful for most people,” Mark Manson writes in his first book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F*ck. He is, as usual, right on with this observation. Realizing that, “our modern, and maddening, urge to always find happiness only serves to make us unhappier,” Manson communicates clearly and concisely throughout his books about why we need to change the way we look at things like personal identity, hope, shame, and happiness.

The reason why Manson’s message works so well is not just the power of the message itself, but the fact that, instead of trying to push the power of positivity onto his readers, he offers an entirely new perspective ― what if everything you thought you knew about happiness and success and yourself was wrong? And what if that was actually a good thing?

Here’s the thing: as humans, we are all naturally inclined to feel attached to various parts of ourselves, especially the parts of ourselves that receive praise. Whether you’re a standout student or worker, an amazing athlete, a math genius, or a truly great dancer, it’s important to not fixate on the things about ourselves that we identify with the most. Why? Because Manson argues that identity is an arbitrary facade. He suggests looking at your life as a series of decisions and actions and try to maintain an identity that is defined by as little as possible.

Our emotional feeling brain actually rules over our rational, thinking brain. Yet we think, or pretend, that the opposite is true! According to Manson, emotions drive our consciousness, and it is emotion only that can motivate us into action. “Emotions convince your thinking brain that you’re right,” Manson says. When emotions rule over the thinking brain, it can lead to narcissism, addiction, compulsion, self-righteous anger, and so on. This is because a person ruled by their emotions has no independent thought, so they only pursue things that bring them instant gratification. Ultimately the goal is not to suppress your emotional brain, but to get your thinking brain connected to your emotional brain. Manson says do not try to suppress your emotions, but instead, try to convince your feeling brain that you will benefit from whatever decision that you are asking yourself about. A good example of this is when people often fail to succeed with lifestyle changes ― this is because our “feeling brain” feels like we don’t deserve the success.

Which leads us to self-worth. “Our self-worth is the sum of our emotions over time. If we can’t equalize, we accept inferiority, shame, and low self-worth,” Manson writes. Interestingly, both high and low self-worth are narcissistic, and self-worth is also an illusion. I know a thing or two about tying your accomplishments and/or abilities to your self-worth, so here’s a funny story from my college days: One day, the lockers got totally looted, so I had no choice but to jog home down a busy boulevard, for a mile and a half….in nothing but a Speedo and swimming goggles (and no shoes!). This was only one day after being the champion of a big tournament ― talk about being taken down a peg!

“Your identity will stay your identity until an event changes it,” Manson writes. “It’s a network of value-based narratives that determines our identity.” There are two ways to heal from this:

  • Examine the narratives of your life, and reposition them.
  • Visualize the future you want for yourself, and make that your new identity.

Let the feeling brain “try on” your new identity so it can become accustomed to it. This can be difficult, because it signifies that you’re really ready to change. “The stories of our future define our hopes, and the stories of our past define our identity” Manson notes, and he advises we take a look at both of those, so we can straighten them out, and get them right! Catch up with my recent interview with man himself, Mark Manson, here and if you haven’t yet read his books, check out The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck and Everything Is F*cked: A Book About Hope.


It doesn’t work to try to be constantly happy. [04:11]

Carefully choose what you give a fuck about and then reject the social pressures.  [07:06]

Identity doesn’t exist.  It is arbitrary. It is a façade. [08:14]

Some of the chapter titles of this book are intriguing: Don’t Try, Happiness is a Problem, You are Not Special, etc. [10:37]

If you don’t have hope, you are basically headed toward depression and anxiety. [11:14]

A quick history of the 20th century gives an idea of what many people have lived through and helps put things in perspective. [13:37]

When life gets too comfortable, we have to pick a cause to worry about to give us meaning. [16:18]

Our emotional feeling brain actually rules over the rational thinking brain. [17:42]

The history of humanity features a major effort to conquer the emotional feeling brain with self-control. [19:50]

There’s a common notion in spiritual psychology that the affluence and love we achieve in life equates to our level of self -worth. [24:04]

Every emotional reaction has an equal and opposite reaction. [25:11]

Both high and low self-worth are narcissistic because they imagine themselves as something special. [27:25]

Your identity will stay your identity until an event changes it. [29:52]



  • “Struggle gives richness to life.” – Roger Bannister
  • “Our modern and maddening urge to always find happiness only serves to make us unhappier.” – Mark Manson


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Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad (04:11):
Hey listeners. I hope you love. Love. Love my show with the super cool dude. Mark Manson, mega bestselling author of the The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck and his sequel book, Everything is Fucked. A book about hope and look at all the people that copied his spicy title from several years ago when, uh, the first book launched and now, Oh my gosh, we’re all about the getting unfucked, being confident is fucked. Uh, but he started it all. And I wanted to share some summary insights from the content of the book that will give you some practical advice right away, but also inspire you to dig in and read, uh, this great work from this young author that’s gone into extreme popularity. And I think he’s one of the great philosophers of modern times putting a lot of, uh, history and, uh, referencing the great minds of the past, into the unique circumstances of daily life. So the first book, the The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck is kind of a reaction to the self help industry. And what Manson saw is a culture of mindless positivity that isn’t practical or helpful for most people. This is a quote from a book description, and then my own insights will be sprinkled in throughout this breather show. Manson uses many of his own personal experiences to illustrate how life’s struggles often give it more meaning, which he argues is a better approach than constantly trying to be happy.

Brad (05:42):
So we have that distinction that other philosophers have shared with us as well, uh, between being trying to constantly be happy and positive and carry through this disposition that might not as valid or authentic as, uh, persevering through struggle and appreciating struggle, uh, as one of the great areas of richness in life. Uh, I like to quote Roger Banister, the first sub four minute miler the late Sir Roger Bannister. Um, and he, uh, wrote a wonderful book about his running career that was published back in the fifties when he was still a young man and had retired and pursue into a pursuit of a career in medicine. And he said, struggle gives meaning and richness to life. And of course he was talking about his, uh, athletic pursuits and striving to break the magical sub four minute mile barrier and compete in the Olympics world, world level events. sut to have that compelling goal of trying to be his best in the athletic realm, and then applying that mindset, that mentality to all other goals that you face in life, whether it’s relationship goals, being a parent, uh, staying fit and healthy, uh, controlling the wayward, uh, negative thoughts and ruminations and FOMO that we suffer from in today’s culture.

Brad (07:06):
You know, finding something that’s meaningful to struggle for is a great insight that came out of, Manson’s book. And then of course the title of the The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck really means this subtle art of choosing very carefully to choose what you give a fuck about. And then kind of rejecting a lot of the, uh, societal pressures and forces that, uh, measure and judge us and kind of draw us into those, uh, horrible disease states like FOMO. So back to the written description. Manson’s approach and writing style had been categorized by some as contrarian to the general self help industry using blunt honesty and profanity to illustrate his ideas, our modern and maddening urge to always find happiness only serves to make us unhappier. Instead, The Subtle Art, uh, turned out. It turns out to be a bold challenge to choose your struggles and to narrow and focus and find the pain that you want to sustain the positive aspects of having a life of rich, meaningful struggles.

Brad (08:14):
Okay. A few more details about the theme in the book, a Manson argues that identity doesn’t exist. It’s arbitrary, it’s a facade quote, maintain an identity that is defined by as little as possible instead see your life as a series of decisions and actions. And he gives the example of someone wishing they could be better about their commitment to fitness, working out, going to the gym and the shift from being a person who’s lazy and non committed to becoming a fitness enthusiast is more difficult because you’re attaching your identity to various things in life. And by doing so, the stakes are higher.

Brad (09:05):
You get discouraged, you get negative, and then you tail spin away from your, uh, best intentions to, uh, become a different person, become a better person. Now, if you instead just saw your life as a series of decisions and actions, and weren’t wedded to the outcome in the way that you are, when you form your identity around being a lawyer or being a school teacher or being the president of the, uh, neighborhood, uh, society, all these things that we, uh, get our egos involved with and then are less effective and set ourselves up for more pain, suffering, disappointment, and failure to achieve, uh, tangible goals instead see your life as a series of decisions and actions. So you wake up one day and you say, ah, I’m going to decide to go to the gym. Uh, the stakes are more reasonable and you can, uh, just take action and kind of cruise along without the emotional baggage that often comes when our identity is attached to, uh, the things that we do. So this is kind of in line with his, uh, overarching theme of, uh, choosing what to give a fuck about, and then, uh, not worrying about the rest, being precise on what you choose to give a fuck about. Uh, here’s some chapter titles to intrigue you to grab this, uh, mega bestselling book that was just off the charts with, uh, record-breaking numbers of sales and translations around the world.

Brad (10:37):
So chapter One is called Don’t Try. Chapter Two is Happiness is a Problem. Three: You Are Not Special. Four: The Value of Suffering. Five: You are Always Choosing. Six: You are Wrong About Everything, (but so am I). Seven: Failure is the Way Forward. Eight: The Importance of Saying No. Nine: And Then You Die. So I thought I would recite the chapter titles because they’re clever and they give you a little bit of insight, hopefully with my description, helping as well, uh, as to what the book’s all about and the message they’re conveying.

Brad (11:14):
Okay. So then the, uh, the most recent book, Everything is Fucked. A Book about Hope, uh, took a little bit more notes cause I wanted to share that one, cause it’s probably less, uh, less popular at this point than the crazy first book. But if you love the first book definitely grabbed the second book and it really drew me in, I refer to these concepts often to help navigate the wild times of modern life. I want my kids to read it, good stuff. So in this book, Manson looks at our relationships with money entertainment and the internet, how too much of a good thing can eat us alive. He openly defies our definitions of faith, happiness, freedom, and even hope itself. So the idea of this book, a book about hope is that you want to create a quote string of hope narratives as your defining purpose in life.

Brad (12:13):
If you don’t have hope, you are basically headed toward depression and anxiety. So all the things that we do, all the things that we care about sort of emanate from hope is the wonderful point that he makes persuasively in the book. And here’s the thing about today’s world, uh, by many, uh, practical measurements, uh, life is better today than any other time in the history of humanity. We have a more sustained period of peace. There’s no world Wars. There’s not a ton of minor conflicts. Of course there’s always something going on, but by comparison today’s world is better than ever, uh, compared to the middle ages compared to the, our, our grandparents and great grandparents generations. Mark Bell put this incredible, uh, post up on Instagram. And I’m going to read some of that too. Uh, just to give you a little bit of context when the argument that Manson advances that today’s better than ever, uh, falls flat because you don’t like our president or you think that North Korea is going to launch the bombs any moment, all those things might be relevant, but whew, compared to a generations ago, yeah, we’ve really managed to progress as a, as a global society, despite all the things that still have a needs to improve Mark by them.

Brad (13:37):
So go look at the great Instagram site of Mark Smelly Bell. Uh, my main man, the meathead millionaire, a leader in the fitness community. He’s got a lot of great posts on there. And in this one, he’s, uh, posting a picture of some really distressed looking, uh, refugees, all young children emaciated, starving, dressed in tatters. And, uh, the title of the post is perspective. Imagine you were an American born in 1900. That’s the exact year my grandfather was born. And so this was his life. Uh, that’s me talking. And then back to Mark Bell’s post, when you’re 14 World War I starts and ends on your 18th birthday, 22 million people killed later in the year of Spanish flu pandemic hits the planet and runs until you’re age 20. 50 million people die in two years. Then when you’re 29, the great depression begins.

Brad (14:32):
Unemployment hits 25%. global GDP drops 27%. And this runs until you’re age 33, the country nearly collapses along with the world economy. Then when you turn 39 World War II starts. When you’re 41, the United States is fully involved in World War II. And between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perished in the war. The Holocaust kills 6 million. At age 52, the Korean war starts and 5 million people perish when you’re 64 years old, the Vietnam war begins. It doesn’t end for many years, 4 million people die in that conflict. Then at your 62nd birthday, you have the Cuban missile crisis, a tipping point in the cold war life on the planet. As we know it could well have ended. Great leaders prevented that from happening. Then when you’re 75, the Vietnam war finally ends. Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How do you survive all of that?

Brad (15:31):
A kid in 1985, didn’t think their 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was yet. Those grandparents and great grandparents survived through everything listed above perspective is an amazing art. Let’s try to keep things in perspective. This was written during the time of the quarantine, social isolation, the economy struggling accordingly. But if we can keep things in perspective, let’s be smart. Try to help each other out. And we’ll get through all this in the history of the world. There has never been a storm that lasted and this too shall pass. That’s Mark Bell on Instagram. And back to Mark Manson’s argument that this is a better time in the world than ever before. Here’s the thing. We have something called a paradox of progress.

Brad (16:18):
Life gets too easy, too comfortable. And when that happens, we have to pick a cause to worry about, to give us meaning. John Gray mentioned this in my show with him. He said that affluent couples have a higher rate of marital conflict because they have the time and energy to worry about nitpicky relationship issues rather than just, you know, fighting the battle together to make ends meet and to pay the rent at their apartment. So, yeah, interesting perspective that we kind of trend toward drama conflict in our lives when things get easy. So to create a string of hope narratives, this goal, to become our defining purpose in life, what do we need for hope? First, a sense of control. Second, believing in and valuing something. And third, a sense of community. So think about that and apply that to the things that you care about. Your sense of community is a huge one. Believing in caring about something, valuing something. I’m thinking of like fitness goals and people that are members of CrossFit community, or endurance training teams, and have that amazing connection of people, uh, working toward a common goal that’s challenging, involves struggle and giving meaning and richness to life like Roger Banister said.

Brad (17:42):
So then Manson gets into this really interesting argument that our emotional feeling brain actually rules over the rational thinking brain. But because we have this rational thinking brain, the thinking brain concludes that it’s the one in charge of the show. We pretend that the rational thinking brain rules over the emotional brain, but it’s actually not true. We’re taught to suppress our emotions, but this too is a fallacy. When you suppress your emotions, that’s getting a lobotomy. So the emotions are always there. And Manson argues that emotions drive our consciousness. Only emotion motivates us to action, not rational conclusions of which car we’re going to buy because it got better ratings on consumer reports. That is the illusion. It’s the emotions that trigger these purchasing decisions and a good example, or also summoning, the motivation to get off the couch and get into the gym and get in shape.

Brad (18:46):
So since only emotion motivates us to action, we need to get buy in from our emotional brain in order to take action toward a goal emotions, convince your thinking brain that you’re right. This is the essence of self-serving bias or confirmation bias right here. Emotions convincing your thinking brain that you’re right, this kind of behavior where the emotions are ruling over the thinking brain leads to huh? Not so many good things, huh? Can you guess it leads to narcissism, addiction, compulsion, self righteous anger, and so on a person ruled by emotions has no independent thought and only pursues instant gratification. So the idea, the goal here is to get your thinking brain connected with your emotional brain, not to suppress your emotions or steam, roll them with your powerful intellect that knows everything, what to do. And you don’t have to listen to your emotions.

Brad (19:50):
No. The history of humanity features a major effort to conquer the emotional feeling brain with self-control. So we’ve known this for a long time that we have to not let our emotions rule our behavior, right? Otherwise we get narcissism addiction, compulsion, self righteous anger. And so how have we tried this throughout the history of humanity? Yes. Religion is the big one, right? Suppress your emotions, suppress your instincts. Follow the rules, go to confession if you stray a little bit. He also references cultism as an extreme example of trying to conquer the emotional feeling brain that’s actually in control with self-controlling guidelines. Okay. So what happened in the 20th century was this awakening occurred and people rebelled against the long time centuries, old self control mechanisms in society like religious doctrine. And they began to express their emotions and passions. We had the rebellious decades of the sixties and the freedom of the seventies, right?

Brad (20:57):
Uh, here’s Manson making the argument that, uh, when you swing the pendulum too far in the other direction, the emotional feeling brain starts to run amok again. Right? So on the two edges of the continuum, we have the emotionally driven human delving into narcissism addiction, compulsive, and self righteous anger. And then on the other end of the spectrum, we have the, uh, controlled, suppressed think about the gender roles that John Gray talked about a little bit, where we have the male breadwinner who comes home, pops open a beer and gets waited on by the dutiful female partner. Who’s supposed to be a barefoot in the kitchen, making food and making babies, right? All that kind of nonsense that we’ve had to grow through, uh, in recent decades. Geez. How about the suppression of one’s sexuality? He can’t get any deeper of a suppression than that.

Brad (21:53):
And the great giant religious bodies and political bodies trying to strong arm people into that deep of a emotional suppression hole. So we have that end of the spectrum. And then we have a today’s common problem since the pendulum has swung away from all that nonsense. But then we get today’s stereotypical, affluent entitled, spoiled millennial or spoiled adult. And let’s not pick on the millennials, right? Uh, these kind of the narcissism that’s running amok. So this solution get your thinking brain connected with your feeling brain when pondering logical life decisions, ask your feeling brain to weigh in. Weigh all logical decisions by asking yourself how you feel about whatever consequence quitting your job, moving to a new city, getting involved in a relationship, severing a relationship, and assess the emotional answer without judgment. Don’t try to suppress your emotions. You need to convince your feeling brain, that you’ll benefit from whatever decision you’re asking yourself about you need buy in from the feeling brain.

Brad (23:07):
The reason we don’t succeed with lifestyle change is our feeling brain feels like we don’t deserve the success. And we get stuck in a repeating pattern of suffering that comes from past programming. I got into this a little bit with Luke Story in that great, uh, discussion near the end of our interview when he was talking about the, uh, manifestation of a wealth of your dreams and how we commonly misinterpret that to think that, uh, we try to manifest wealth so that we can be happy. And he says, no, you have to come from a position of gratitude and then see yourself into with great specificity the life that you dream about. So that’s kind of convincing your feeling brain that it will benefit from rather than deep down feeling undeserving of happiness, wealth, peace of mind, contentment, a life well lived.

Brad (24:04):
Don’t pass this stuff off as silly. There’s a common notion in spiritual psychology that the affluence and love we achieve in life equates to our level of self worth. In his book, The Big Leap, psychologist, Gay Hendricks advances, the compelling argument that we bump up against what he calls an upper limit in life. And this is described in Hendrick’s words as quote, it’s an inner thermostat setting that determines how much love success and creativity we allow ourselves to enjoy. The thermostat setting usually gets programmed in early childhood. Once programmed our upper limit thermostat setting holds us back from enjoying all the love, financial abundance and creativity. That’s rightfully ours end quote. Whew! Okay. So get that feeling brain to buy in, right? Just like the scenes in the movies. Yeah, I deserve it. That sounds good. All right, let’s do this. Okay. So otherwise you get stuck in patterns of past programming and suffering.

Brad (25:11):
So Manson has a clever device where he’s talking about, uh, Isaac Newton’s laws of gravity. And then because we’re talking about the emotional brain, he talks a lot about the amazing life of Isaac Newton. And, um, he draws in this new idea of Newton’s laws of emotion, of course, that he made up to kind of counterbalance the, uh, the rational brain, the thinking brain and all the great work that Newton did, but he had a rough life. And it was very interesting story, but he’d come up with this concept of Newton’s laws of emotion. Here’s the first one, every emotional reaction has an equal and opposite reaction. If it doesn’t, we develop what’s called a moral gap. So if you can think about being bullied as a child in middle school and, uh, suffering these intense, painful emotions, but not able to fight back or lash back at the bullies, that’s the nature of bullying, right?

Brad (26:09):
Then the equal and opposite emotional reaction is going to be a suppression, uh, that leads to low self esteem and continued pain and suffering throughout life. Okay. So when you have a chance to equalize an emotional reaction with a corresponding emotional reaction, then you don’t have that moral gap. And this could be another example could be a passive aggressive dynamic where there’s a conflict and then the equal and opposite emotional reaction comes in the form of passive rather than going toe to toe in a more, a classic example of a conflict. The next law of emotion is our self worth is the sum of our emotions over time. If we can’t equalize, like I discussed with the bully example, we accept inferiority shame and low self worth. I’m thinking of the great work of Berne Brown, talking about the sources of shame and how to get through that kind of challenge here, where we’re you know, adding up the, some of our emotional experiences and then forming a negative self image because of the moral gap, because we didn’t, uh, you know, fully processed these emotions.

Brad (27:25):
Oh, guess what? The flip side is diluted high self worth. Both high and low self worth are narcissistic because they imagine themselves as something special, something separate from the world. So I remember going back to the first book of identities and illusion, self worth is also an illusion. And if you Harbor self-worth, if you cultivate self worth self worth, then you should get a dog. Woof, woof, okay. Self worth. If you are trafficking in self worth, this is a form of persistent low level narcissism, right? Make sense? Hey, I was an athlete. I was pretty caught up and, uh, the importance of my pursuits as a competitive triathlete. And at times making it very easy to attach self worth to what place I got in the most recent race, right? You’re on a winning streak, you get some diluted high self worth, and then you’re on a losing streak and you get delusional, low self worth, both are narcissistic because they imagine themselves as something special, something separate from the world.

Brad (28:43):
And one of my favorite examples of getting recalibrated from a potentially diluted high self worth was the day after I won this big race on the professional triathlon circuit. And then I jogged over to the swimming pool to do a workout feeling pretty good about myself, getting a little stretch in for the muscles after the great performance the previous day. And I got out of the pool and went to my locker at Pierce College in Woodland Hills, California. And everything was stolen. The, the locker was looted. So my shoes, my clothes, my expensive sunglasses, thankfully sponsor gave them to me. Remember, I just want a big race. And so I had to jog home about a mile and a half on a busy Boulevard wearing a Speedo. And of course my goggles barefoot. And so that was getting taken down from being the champ the day before and give it a nice victory speech to the adoring crowd at the triathlon gathering. Whoever stole the stuff out of my locker, didn’t give a crap about who won the race the day before and there I was getting looked at by passing cars jogging along in a Speedo.

Brad (29:52):
Oh yeah. Okay. so that was the second law of emotion. Our self worth is a sum of our emotions over time. And if we can’t equalize, we accept inferiority shame and low self worth. Finally, the third one, your identity will stay your identity until an event changes. It’s a network of value based narratives that determines our identity. So there’s two ways to heal. First, examine the narratives of your life and reposition them. Second, visualize the future that you want for yourself and make that your new identity. Okay. That’s pretty awesome. Pretty simple. The first one, right? Go back and process things and realize just because you were bullied in middle school, doesn’t mean you have to accept inferiority, shame and low self worth today. Second, visualize the future that you want for yourself. Single people visualize the ideal relationship. My recent podcast guest Dude Spellings did an exercise with his girlfriend to write out their view of an ideal partner and then share it with each other what great stuff.

Brad (31:03):
So visualize the future you want and make that your new identity. Let the feeling brain, try it on and become accustomed to it. Hey, you know what? This could be a difficult exercise, Manson says, because if you’re going to do it, that means you really are ready to change. And the stories of our future define our hopes, the stories of our past define our identity. And let’s take a look at both of those and get them right. Get them straight. It’s a book about hope after all. I hope you enjoyed this little summary and will intrigue you to go get the audio book narrated by the author himself or the written book. Great stuff. Thank you so much, Mark Manson for taking the time to join me on the podcast and get that great interview out there. So please go listen to the interview if you haven’t already. Thanks for listening to the breather show. Yeah, you can find Mark Manson on Instagram. He published his great quotes every day and all over the place. Of course the books are everywhere and they have a two book package you can get on. Amazon of Everything is Fucked. A book about hope and the The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. So go grab it. Have a great day. Thanks for listening. Bye.

Brad (32:15):
Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback at getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com. And we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves cause they need to thanks for doing it.


Fasten your seat belts for an incredibly fast moving, wide-ranging, and deeply impactful show from Dr. Ron. This guy has fought a valiant battle against dated mainstream medical advice and in favor of a comprehensive ancestral approach emphasizing not just healthy, whole foods, but also choosing out of the flawed mindsets and hectic lifestyle behaviors that are on display in Silicon Valley like no other spot in America.

Yes, Dr. Ron works in the most affluent community in America. Tech workers make some bank for sure, but we are talking $1.3 million for a median home price in the Silicon Valley counties. The affluence comes at a cost with a hectic workplace, painful commutes, and consumerism traps. Indeed, Dr. Ron observes numerous associated problems: scarcity mindsets (someone around you always has more); excessive rumination, leading to anxiety and depression; and adults pushing this crappy stuff onto their kids with over pressurized parenting leading to troubled, overstressed teens.  

Dr. Ron works runs the corporate health division of the Palo Alto Medical Foundation. He develops onsite health/wellness services for major Silicon Valley companies like the tech giants you have heard of. He delivers lectures on assorted health topics and also gets to do initial consults with patients that last for an hour he can really get deep into lifestyle modification tips that will keep them away from the doctor’s office.  

For the past decade, Dr. Ron has gained notoriety for fighting the valiant battle against conventional medical wisdom, particularly the widespread use of statins to address heart disease risk. Dr. Ron has succeeded wildly with dietary and lifestyle modification strategies, and communicated his approach to other physicians to inspire change. Dr. Ron is smiling now, and mainstream medicine has progressed over the last 10 years away from the flawed and dated notions about cholesterol, statins, and the proximate cause of heart disease.  

Years ago, Ron promoted the results of a UCLA metastudy revealing that 80 percent of heart attack victims had LDL cholesterol levels widely considered to be in the “safe” range. As most of us have awakened to by this point, heart disease risk is not as simple as monitoring ones’ total LDL number. If one is concerned about high LDL, it’s important to test for small, dense particles as these are the potentially problematic ones that are small and dense enough to lodge on the walls of your arteries. In contrast, the large, fluffy LDL particles are commonly harmless. Guess what? If you have high triglycerides (over 150), you likely have a small, dense LDL problem. Even if your total LDL is artificially lowered by statin drugs, you can still be at high risk of heart disease. Remember CNN anchor Tim Russert? He passed of a heart attack in his 50s despite a total cholesterol number in the low 100s! 

This is crazy talk if you compare to decades of conventional wisdom boilerplate: “Don’t eat fat or cholesterol, take statins if your total cholesterol is over 200 and then you will be fine.” Ron has bravely gone toe to toe with the establishment to convince other doctors that diet modification can reduce heart disease risk better than statins, and that statins can often compromise health and not address the biggest risk factors of heart disease. He, like Dr. Cate Shanahan and other evolutionary health leaders, favors tracking your triglycerides-to-HDL as the most relevant disease risk marker. It’s urgent to get 3:1 and optimal to get 1:1.  

Dr. Ron shared his strategies for affecting lasting dietary transformation and lifestyle change among his patients. First, patients have to get interested in their health. Ron finds that many are too busy trying to make money or push their kids really hard to excel in competitive modern life. Second, to motivate them accordingly, Dr. Ron finds that educating them about the why’s, and offering incentives and competition with clear metrics is an effective strategy. For example, he might challenge a patient to focus on an important blood value like triglycerides and lower it by 100 points by the next blood test date. Third, and this is pure genius, Ron adopts an Additive approach to diet, focusing on efforts to include healthy foods rather than grind on people to eliminate many of their favorites. Some of Ron’s patients have wailed that, “rice is my drug,” so he tells them to add more nuts and meat to their biryani dishes! Fourth, don’t ruminate! This leads to depression when ruminating about the past and anxiety when ruminating about the future.  

This show can get a little science-y but I urge you to play it slowly, repeat passages, and do whatever you need to do to fully understand the important insights and suggestions from Dr. Ron. The podcast is giving you the opportunity to get an hour-long private consult with one of the leading big picture health guides in the world. I am committed to getting Dr. Ron back on the show in the future, because we hit so many points so quickly that there is plenty of fodder for further focus. We have exchanged long thoughtful emails on the disturbing trend of helicopter parenting and over-pressurized youth experiences, and we get a bit of that going on the show. Hey parents, here is a both-parents-are-doctors family working hard to give their kids a balanced life and a healthy approach to education and sports goals. If they can get over themselves, so can we! 


Brad introduces Dr. Ron Sinha. [03:45] 

Dr. Sinha health of the Silicon Valley employees, as nice a place as it is, a hotbed of stress related illnesses as well as physical.  [07:11] 

The fast pace of life, the sedentary living, the high stress, it’s accelerating aging. [11:36]

So you have a strong genetic predisposition to how much and where you store fat. [14:17] 

You can see major transformations in metabolic health just going back two generations. [17:50] 

Technology has ruined the practice of medicine in so many ways. [20:04] 

The concept of preventative health has been fading, especially from the younger generation. [23:20] 

It affects your bottom line if your employees are healthy. [25:35] 

It’s very important to get REALLY interested in your health. {29:14] 

Motivation improves when patients can simplify their goals. [32:28] 

So many people are not aware of having any health problems.  [33:45] 

The metabolic syndrome is really the cornerstone of insulin resistance and heart disease. [36:54] 

There’s a lot of compelling data now around the fact that insulin resistance can get worse if you’re on a statin for a long enough period of time. [40:36] 

Your dietary changes can improve your numbers. [42:35] 

The ratio of triglycerides to HDL is a prominent indicator of heart health. [47:16]

What lifestyle and dietary changes can we make that has the most impact? [49:38] 

Raising insulin sensitivity is good; insulin resistance is bad. [53:46] 

Waist circumference is an indication that you are developing visceral fat.  [59:56] 

Kids are showing up in doctor’s offices with anxiety, depression. [01:06:52] 

Is your family bathing in screen light instead of sunlight? [01:09:02]

Rumination is kind of like pre anxiety or pre depression because it is a common thought process. [01:11:25] 

Parents send very subtle messages of which they aren’t aware. [01:14:41]



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Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high-stress, modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 00:02:30 [00:03:45] What a treat you’ re in for an opportunity to engage with one of the most progressive and forward thinking physicians on the planet. Dr Ron Sinha Huh? We go back a long time. We published his book, the South Asian Health Solution, which is targeting the a South Asian population but wonderful overview of the ancestral health approach for reversing your disease risk factors through diet and lifestyle modification. I love Dr Ron’s comprehensive approach where of course he hits the dietary talking points of the Primal/Paleo, low carb ancestral health approach, but he also brings in these important concepts of mindset. So this show is going to be a fast moving, wide ranging, very thought provoking. You’re going to get a lot of practical insights about how to improve your disease risk factors, your dietary habits, and especially your mindset.

Speaker 4: 00:04:45 Oh my gosh, it’s a wild ride. We talk about the dangers and the health consequences of rumination and over pressurized helicopter parenting experiences. We get into a little bit of science with the disease risk factors, so you’re definitely gonna want to hit that 32nd back button, take some notes and listen to Dr Ron and I go deep. This guy has a very cool job down there in Silicon Valley working for the Palo Alto Medical Foundation where he runs their corporate health division, so he provides or oversees these on site health and wellness services for huge Silicon Valley employers. The big companies you may have heard of, Google, oracle, Cisco, Facebook, exciting, fun, so he gives lectures and webinars. He gets to see initial intake patient appointments that lasts for an hour where he can really get deep into their lifestyle parameters. He’s identified some very disturbing trends in the most affluent population in the country.

Brad: 00:05:45 These silicon valley workers that make a good income and live a good life, but they’re constantly ruminating and experiencing anxiety and depression accordingly. So we get into the nuts and bolts of healthy but also integrating all those other factors for what it means to live a healthy life. I think you’re really going to love the show. Yeah. Push the 32nd back button if you need to take some notes and I think you’re gonna get a lot of great practical tips and insights from Dr Ron. He’s been fighting a fantastic battle against mainstream medical establishment and dated views about dietary and drug use, Staten use to try to address the heart disease problem and he demonstrated great success using dietary modification alone and getting people away from the destructive impact of statens or the lack of impact of statins and then convincingly addressing these issues with other doctors to help them expand their mindsets and their perspective and progress toward healthy eating and healthy dietary recommendations in the medical community. Great stuff. Now finally things are coming around and the tide is turning where people are embracing these crazy ideas that 10 years ago were rejected out of hand. Doctor Sinha riding a wonderful way wave of doing a wonderful service for the community down there in Silicon Valley. And now we get to hear from him directly. So enjoy the show Dr Ron.

Brad: 00:07:11 Okay. Ron Sinha we’re here. Thank you so much for hanging out. It’s awesome reconnecting with you after many years, right? Yeah. We, um, we, I first saw you down the street when I did a little, uh, a seminar for people interested in primal living.

Ron: 00:07:27 Totally.

Brad: 00:07:27 And then I think I flashed a quick slide about don’t use statins. Those are stupid. They don’t, and the like this, this hand came up from the audience. Well, technically speaking and then you just went off. I’m like, dude, what are you all about? And then here is this guy, you’re like the, um, the progressive doc, like fighting the battle in mainstream medicine. I love it. And we’ve followed your work for a long time.

New Speaker: 00:07:45 Yeah.

Brad: 00:07:46 Wrote a beautiful book for primal blueprint publishing. Yeah. The South Asian Health Solution. So I guess we could start, we have many things to discuss. Some of them not too pretty, right? I mean, we’re here in the, in the Silicon Valley. Yes. Um, is it, it’s the number one most affluent area in the country in terms of like whatever medium home price and all that, right?

Ron: 00:08:07 Absolutely.

Brad: 00:08:08 Yeah. But we have major issues here.

Ron: 00:08:10 Yep.

Brad: 00:08:11 So what’s, what’s going on man, with the affluence and the access to fantastic healthcare and, and great food. We’re destroying our health in many ways.

Ron: 00:08:20 And that’s really the big paradox that we’re seeing here is, um, in my role right now, I still have a console practice where I see patients, but my primary role really is to go out to these high tech companies and try to come up with strategies to really help their employees become healthier. And it’s in amazing over the last decade that the number of benefits and services that I’m seeing evolving in these companies, and honestly, Brad. in a lot of cases, it’s really to just take competitive because right now everybody’s trying to recruit the highest quality engineers. So let’s throw this benefit at them. Let’s throw that benefit at them. Yet when we look over a lot of their information from a population health standpoint, we still find that depression, anxiety, diabetes, undiagnosed cancers or a lot of chronic health conditions are still at the top of the list. So despite sharing them with all these benefits, like you said, world-class health care, onsite health care, onsite dentists, everything. Um, we have employees who are still suffering with a lot of mental and physical health maladies. So, so the answer isn’t just to give them more benefits and better access is to really dig deeper into what are the root causes of, you know, you’re living in this incredible area, you know, beautiful climate.

Ron: 00:09:24 Um, you can do anything here, but, um, why are people still suffering? So that Kinda got me going on my journey because really, uh, within, you know, taught to be a counselor, a mental health specialist in medical school. We didn’t realize the role of stress with chronic disease. You were absent that day when they come like that. I called in sick that day or something. But, but it’s really at the root of everything we see here in the clinic at every level.

Brad: 00:09:44 So, uh, we’ll also, the physical, uh, issues I think are not, not just here, but all over the place with the hardworking tech, uh, overstimulated, hyper-connected population. Yup. And so how did those present, when you, when you come see a patient, what’s, what’s going on with the average Joe American person?

Ron: 00:10:04 Yeah, good point.

Ron: 00:10:05 And you’re right, this whole tech addiction, it’s not a Silicon Valley phenomenon. It’s worldwide.

Brad: 00:10:09 We just made this stuff here and yeah, we made it in and out.

Ron: 00:10:12 Exactly right. But, um, I think a lot of it starts with the fact that number one health often is not a priority. You know, the priority for a lot of people is you’re surrounded by people at your company that are doing so well. And often you’re at, you’ll hear about the one guy that may be broke out of your company and they started their own, you know, company, and now they’ve made this much money. So there’s always this comparison effect. This always happening. Even when I get invited to social occasions the topical conversations are basically, Hey, what happened with that one guy with this startup? Hey, did you hear about this? Investment? Conversations are fixated on, you know, financial productivity, who’s really succeeding the most? And it gets real infused in your DNA.

Ron: 00:10:49 So on the one hand it’s very exciting because you think the world is at your hand and you can do all these amazing things and that’s the positive of it. But the negative is when you’re surrounded by people that are such high achievers, you feel inadequate, you know, all the time, and your bar for success just keeps going up. So maybe you broke out of that company, now you’re hanging with C levels, but now you hear about the C levels that are actually achieving even more. So you just keep rising and rising and rising and feeling satisfied. So I think this happens in any environment worldwide, but here I think the bar is just so high that there’s just no end to it. So

Brad: 00:11:19 also the work, a pace is frenetic, maybe more so than I’m sure somewhere in less, less technological economy. Yeah. And so what happens when someone’s overworking like to their, to their, to their physical health when you go in and take their blood, what’s going on?

Ron: 00:11:36 So the types of things that we’re seeing is, you know, we, I’m in our books really focused a lot on insulin resistance in diabetes. And this is something I was trained about in medical school. But typically when we talk about case studies of people developing diabetes or kidney issues, our case studies would involve 60 70 plus year people, you know, and here when I came to silicon valley, that’s sort of what I was expecting. But then all of a sudden I’m seeing heart attacks and people in their thirties you know, early thirties you know, diabetes type two presenting teenage years to early twenties. So everything I was taught about in medical training is present presenting decades earlier. And that was a shock to me in the beginning. I thought maybe these are anomalies, but then what we realized is exactly what you said, that fast pace of life, the sedentary living, the high stress, it’s accelerating aging.

Ron: 00:12:21 And we’ve talked about that a lot in prior posts is accelerating aging through fast lifestyle. We see that based on blood markers and we also see that based on culture. So a lot of the focus of my work is certain ethnic groups react much more strongly to these sorts of effects and others. So people that are immigrating from Asian, India that come from a community where there was more group living, maybe stress levels were lower because of the way they lived. When you introduce them into the western style of living, eating and lifestyle, things are just out of hand, they can become diabetic really quickly. So yeah.

Brad: 00:12:53 Why do you say group living? What’s that benefit or how does that factor in?

Ron: 00:12:57 Well, you know, we talk about the village, you know, so basically if you’re coming from anywhere in the world where you’re surrounded by neighbors, by direct family members, extended family members that live around you and support you, you know that sort of group dynamic, this the face to face social interactions that you’re not deliberately trying to seek out there around you all the time. And that was just a part of daily living. And then all of a sudden you take someone from that environment and you put them in like a two bedroom studio right next to a high tech company where they’ve got no other connections, um, that has an adverse effect emotionally and even on your immune system as well too. So, so often I’ve seen patients where there were followed and they might have some baseline tests that they brought from India or China and I can get some baseline info. And it’s amazing. We think about the freshman 15 when you go to college, I talked about this freshman 15 when you first immigrate to this country, you look at the blood parameters and have the glucose goes up or if I’ve got baseline inflammatory markers, how those ended up getting adversely effected. So, so it’s sort of a, a symbol of, you know, going from that group environment to this individual sort of me, me, me sort of society. What really that can do to your emotional and metabolic health.

Brad: 00:14:01 So are there other genetic predispositions, cause it seemed like the message in your book, a shout out to your peeps, the South Asian Health Solution as you said, you guys are kind of screwed. So you better pay attention and listen to them because they respond even worse than let’s say a control subject to a high carbohydrate diet. For example?

Ron: 00:14:17 Good point. You know the, the thing is with Asian Indians, east Asians, Filipinos, certain ethnic groups, what happens is that carbohydrate threshold is actually much lower. The switch for them turning into a metabolic syndrome, insulin resistant person is much lower. So often, you know, if it might take 300 grams of carbohydrate for you to become diabetic, it might take only 150 to 200 grams in one of my patients. And it’s, it’s interesting cause as I take their baseline carbohydrate information, we realized that my gosh, it’s amazing. Like how low that barrier is. And the other thing is when you look at these individuals, they don’t look like your typical diabetics. You’d think that they’d be 20, 30 pounds overweight, but often their body mass index is 21 or 22, which would be considered under weight. But a lot of that fat is being socked away into the liver. It’s stored as triglycerides in the bloodstream. So it’s that invisible fat. And we all probably know about, you know, skinny fat and these types of things. But it’s an epidemic in this population because they’re slender and then culturally their family members think they need to be fed even more. So the spouses are overfeeding with more carbs and if they don’t have any consciousness around that, the problem just gets out of hand.

Brad: 00:15:21 So you have a strong genetic predisposition to how much and where you store fat. For example, we can all nod our heads and think about, um, the, the, uh, the generations of, of potbellies and males on my side or the thick calves that I, I hate looking at them and my mother has them and so does my grandmother. So we have that genetic predisposition. But then we also have, uh, the, the lucky folks who don’t have that predisposition to, to pack on a bunch of fat.

Ron: 00:15:50 Yeah.

Brad: 00:15:50 But in a way, um, there that, that’s, that’s a problem you’re saying.

Ron: 00:15:55 Exactly. I mean the, the problem is they’re packing on the fat in the wrong area and the

Brad: 00:15:59 on the like around the organs?

Ron: 00:16:01 Around the organs? The visceral fat. Exactly. And if you look at ethnic groups, if you looked at the fat distribution of what say in Asian versus a Caucasian and an African American, the distribution is very different. So for, um, Caucasians, you’ll see moderate amounts of subcutaneous and visceral fat. For African Americans, they have a much larger proportion of subcutaneous and smaller versions of visceral fat actually. So a lot of their heart disease comes from hypertension and less from insulin resistance. But when you look at the Asian distribution, that visceral fat is really large and there’s just a thin room of subcutaneous fat, which is why they’re really much more slender. So, so that predisposition really makes a set up for developing heart disease in these conditions at a lower body weight. And at a lower age as well too.

Brad: 00:16:46 So we’re probably gaining these insights only in recent times.

Ron: 00:16:52 It’s recent times because now we finally have access to more diverse literature is, you probably know a lot of our standard guidelines are based on studies done in Framingham, Massachusetts. So 1950s white people, um, were studies done more domestically. And then what we do is we create guidelines and we sort of apply that to diverse population. But now that we’re really looking at more global literature, when you start looking at those research studies, you start to realize, wow, there’s really differences in the way that we should set weight guidelines, you know, heart risk guidelines, you know, age of onset of disease. So, you know, it’d be wonderful if we could have a one stop solution for everyone. But unless you understand their ethnic background and metabolic, you know, you could be giving the wrong type of advice. For example, the low fat diet for somebody who is much more predisposed to being insulin resistant, that could just be, you know, very devastating to the metabolism.

Brad: 00:17:41 Well, I’d say there’s probably some common ground where you can tell every patient to quit drinking slurpees and you’ll be, you’ll safe.

Ron: 00:17:49 Yeah.

Brad: 00:17:50 But then when we start to look at their particulars, yeah. Um, what about the, um, is this coming from the last a hundred generations of South Asian heritage and the last a hundred? I just did my end history. DNA. I’m 46% Irish and 44%, uh, British western Europe. So I’m like, uh, you know, I’m a pure bread, which I may or may not be good. Uh, but now we can track and see, you know, going pretty far back. Yeah. So where’s that influence that’s making me a skinny fat or predisposed to, to this or that? Is that 10 generations, a hundred?

Ron: 00:18:23 Um, no. The interesting thing is when you look at the data, it looks like it’s more like three generations, probably three to four.

Brad: 00:18:29 Ouch, man. And really gramp. Why didn’t you have more fruit in your diet?

Ron: 00:18:33 That’s it. That’s really, yeah. I mean, if you look at a lot of those sort of, even when I go back to India and you look at a lot of our families, you might see that parents and grandparents, you know, they’re, they’re okay. Um, but basically, you know, I think the major problem has been that with the Diet, even though their carbohydrate diet was a little bit heavier, it was still natural, it was still things like the wheat was made naturally with still homemade, a lot of process chemicals didn’t really enter into the diet. Um, their lifestyles were more physically active as well too. So there were walking more. They’re doing a lot more natural physical activity and that counteracted a lot of their insulin resistant tendencies. They weren’t necessarily, if you looked at my grandparents for example, that lived to be 90 plus, they weren’t sporting six packs. Right? So they still carried a healthy amount of subcutaneous fat. Um, but it still wasn’t enough of the visceral fat to really trigger high triglycerides and metabolic syndromes. So, so, so that’s the interesting thing is with a lot of our patients I ask them, can you remember your last healthy relative?

Ron: 00:19:30 And usually it is kind of like a grandparent, you know, sometimes it goes back to parents if they weren’t sort of exposed to western foods and it’s unbelievable. And I take care of multigenerational patients, I’ll look at their lipids and things. It’s a dramatically different from the current generation. So you can see within just two generations just major, major transformations in metabolic health.

Brad: 00:19:50 So I suppose that’s the lifestyle choices and turning the turning the corner and taking, taking some detours from absolutely rate things that your grandparents did. Like I can totally see that.

Ron: 00:20:03 Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: 00:20:04 Even right now my, I’m really concerned because um, you know, thinking about my, the, the career that our fathers had, let’s say. And my father was a, a physician as well. He was a surgeon. He had a long career as a surgeon and he worked really hard and he got called in the middle of the night and went to call.

Ron: 00:20:22 Just like my Dad,

Brad: 00:20:23 He was not bangin. He wasn’t sending 2000 text messages a month and having that extra layer of just um, you know, nonstop.

Ron: 00:20:31 Uh, you nailed it.

Brad: 00:20:32 Nonstop connectivity. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Is it you,

Ron: 00:20:35 You bring that up? My father was a pulmonary critical care doctor as well too, but you’re absolutely right that even though he worked, got up a long hours when he was done, he was done. And right now if you look at the status of physicians, they are facing unbelievable rates of burnout. Like if you look at most national polls, about 45 to 50% of doctors are completely burned out and they’re ready to leave medicine.

Brad: 00:20:56 It’s huge.

Ron: 00:20:56 Right? And you wonder, I mean, this is what’s going to really break our healthcare system if you don’t figure out a way to make the practice of medicine more meaningful. But when you look at polls of what is the number one factor that’s leading to physician burnout, it’s the electronic health record by far over and over

Brad: 00:21:11 Katie, Are you listening? My sister, she works very hard in the clinic overseeing the residency program and the Central Valley, gets home after a 12 hour day, walks the dogs, of course,

Ron: 00:21:21 walks the dogs

Brad: 00:21:22 and then she’s on the computer and it’s like, what the heck is going on here? But the poor doctors, they’re obligated to stay up with the records.

Ron: 00:21:28 I guess with every, we did a study here and showed for every one hour of patient facing time, you generate about 1.5 to two hours of electronic health record time. That’s just not sustainable. But it exactly, it comes back to the fact that technology has ruined the, you know, the, the, the, the practice of medicine in so many ways and really preventing people from wanting to go into this profession.

Brad: 00:21:48 I mean, I remember it was cool for the patient when I was going through my, my surgeries, I had a pen, appendix and, um, complications after interacting with the urologists about the blood in my urine for 90 days. But it was like, you could email, you get the answer back. It was much easier than waiting on hold.

Ron: 00:22:04 Oh yeah.

Brad: 00:22:05 With the doctor’s office music yet this, this hidden consequence, it doesn’t make sense because, um, it seems like you could have a sidekick doing all that for you. Exactly. Like A, and you had to domain in a corporate setting

Ron: 00:22:17 and you’re right, you’re looking at sort of the new generation of medicine and actually the messaging part of it isn’t really what drains us to most, there’s a lot of compliance requirements, charting requirements. So when you look at her in basket, there’s all these categories of other work that you have to do this not patient related. And you’re right, that’s exactly what we’re dealing with is how do you create more meaningful teams. Like you should be able to have a non doc, you know, addressing these administrative issues. And now we’re looking at AI type technologies to really do more automated sort of chats and chatbots that making, maybe you can respond to this. So it has to go in that direction because otherwise the system is falling apart.

Brad: 00:22:50 So we use Google web MD for all further questions about your strange illness.

Ron: 00:22:55 Exactly. Yeah.

Brad: 00:22:56 Dang, that’s disturbing.

Ron: 00:22:57 Yeah. Yup. Yeah.

Brad: 00:22:59 So you’re in this unique role where you can go into the corporate setting, you know, representing a lot of employees. So the, the employee, there’s a healthcare plan for thousands or whatever of employees. Yep. And you’re a pro. You’re representing the provider and trying to, trying to get people more healthy before they, before they go into the hospital or whatever it may be.

Ron: 00:23:20 So, you know, I think the biggest challenge right now is just getting employees engaged about their health and they’ve got all these benefits surrounding them. But you know, even the concept of getting in a physical exam with a doctor, especially from people that have come from different countries where physical exams don’t exist, just getting them out of their chair and into a clinical environment to really get some sort of care done is really, really challenging. So, and I think with newer generations too, just the whole concept of preventive health has really been fading quite a bit. So you’ve got to find other innovative ways to really engage these employees. And so often it might be a lecture or a talk. And even that talk topics have to be different. So if you go out to company and just give a talk on heart health, nobody’s going to show up. But if it’s about the ketogenic diet, by the way, you know, or if it’s about optimizing body fat or addressing fatigue, if it’s about sexual health, you know, things that are a little bit more sexy and racy.

Ron: 00:24:09 Yeah. Then you get people through the door. And the Nice thing is then you can, in the context of that discussion, you can engage them about healthy living, about nutrition, diet and get them engaged into the system. So you’ve got to be very creative nowadays about how you can get busy employees engaged around their health.

Brad: 00:24:25 That’s scary man. I mean they’re there, they’re working their butts off, making money if they can go buy the Tesla. But you’d also think that health would want to come along for the ride.

Ron: 00:24:33 Yeah.

Brad: 00:24:33 I guess are we looking at only a small sliver of the population that’s cranking it at whole foods and entering the adventure race? Is that what you observe in these large companies? Is it?

Ron: 00:24:45 So I would say that the sliver of people that are becoming disengaged about their health is growing rapidly is what I’d say. And just because the work pressure is around them are growing rapidly as well to their environments becoming much more technologically dependent and and so, so I think the good news is there, depending on the company, some companies are starting to realize that offering a benefit is not enough unless you’ve sort of infused a culture of wellness into the managers, into every part of it. The C levels often in companies will be very disconnected with what HR is doing. So they is kind of down in the basement trying to design the wellness programs and the C levels just care about the bottom line. And that’s unfortunately how a lot of companies run. But if you don’t connect the CEO, so the companies where have the most success with where the C levels care about the health of the employees, and often they will promote some of the events that we’re doing or the health education lectures and things like that.

Ron: 00:25:35 And if they show that they really do care about their employees in these sorts of ways, that has an unbelievable impact on getting employees engaged. So, so if you’re out there ready to start a company, just know that you’re not just in charge of profits, but you sort of become the health and wellness champion for those employees. And just, it’s not just health. I mean it does affect your bottom line. When employees are healthier, they’ll produce more, they’re happier, that they do a lot better. So, so that’s a message we’re really trying to get out to the companies where they’re really, you know, facing a lot of challenges with their employees getting healthy.

Brad: 00:26:04 Shout out to Ryan and Hannah at SVM here in Silicon Valley. They care deeply about the employees health, MartinBrauns. My former boss at Interwoven, when I ran this unique employee wellness program and it was infectious, it caught like wildflower. Everyone considered it a healthy workplace. So yeah, just the vibe and the support from the leadership makes such a huge difference.

Ron: 00:26:26 Agreed.

Brad: 00:26:26 Um, but generally instead what I see is you get a discount on your gym membership. If you work here and this and they rate and it’s just real, it’s, it’s, it’s lip service because maybe on the, on the website it’ll say, you know, we care about a healthy balance workplace and we do this and that’s our employees. Yeah.

Ron: 00:26:44 I mean, a lot of these companies, you’re right, they, they throw in incentives at you. Like you’ll get a $150 Amazon Gift Card if you fill out this health risk assessment form. But here people don’t have any, you know, they have an abundance of money sitting in the bank. So, you know, financial incentives are just not unhelpful. I’ll say you’ve got to basically motivate them with maybe competition in some cases or positive peer support or having the right people come out there to give some sort of presentation, some sort of event that’s really gonna engage the employees and people. It’s an interesting, um, what makes them successful here is they’re intrinsically competitive, right? So, but if you can take that competition to like, um, input in a different context around sort of help. So when companies are doing challenges, you know that around getting more physical activity steps are around perhaps weight. I’m not always a big fan of using weight is sort of the center point of that. But sometimes it is a big motivator in a lot of companies to get employees moving in the right direction. And then they noticed that, hey, by the way, I do happen to feel more energetic, my mood’s better, even though I didn’t lose 30 pounds. But that sort of gets them engaged in different ways. So you’ve got to find different incentives outside of just offering, you know, coupons and discount cards to Jamba juice. Yeah.

Brad: 00:27:49 So you like injecting that uh, level of competition, especially to a high performing, uh, you know, yeah. Information workplace. Yeah, absolutely worked.

Ron: 00:27:57 So, so that works. And the other thing is, even without being that direct is when you take an employee and they’ve lost a lot of weight and you kind of make them a health champion. So we, we, we did one of these programs several years ago at a local high tech company and we basically ran it with a pilot of about 30 employees and they all did really well and certain, you know, certain number of them there were just natural health champions, just very, you know, well-spoken. They were able to really motivate their peers and we decided that why don’t we take these folks and sort of use them with the other employees in the company because when somebody sees it, the guy in the next cubicle who’s doing the same day job on a daily basis, drop 20 pounds, looks younger and now all of a sudden sign up for half marathon while I’m sitting here.

Ron: 00:28:38 That’s way more motivating than me as a doctor telling this person you’ve got to drop 20 pounds. Or If of course if family members or spouse or anybody else’s telling you it’s in one ear and out the other. But getting that peer support, if you can drive your peers as health champions, that’s one of the most powerful things you can do.

Brad: 00:28:54 So maybe we should hire at the big tech companies, like every one or one out of every hundred employees could be some fitness freak. That doesn’t really do anything. They just sit there in their cube and look like they’re a project manager yet. See, I love that innovation. That would be awesome.

Ron: 00:29:08 This is a director of finance who actually doesn’t know anything about money, but it’s got a six back, right? Yeah, let go. I’m going to go off for a workout.

Brad: 00:29:14 I’ll miss the meeting, but give me the notes and oh well we’ll catch up later on our, on our budget projections, right. Oh my gosh. Okay, so you’re on to, I mean, I guess challenge number one is get interested in health. Yeah. Get some motivators and some competitive forces in the workplace so people will get off their butt. This reminds me of a Mike Delanco Primal buddy and he works for a company’s satellite company on the East Coast Scs. Yeah, and he arranged, you know that he got the leadership to buy into a $500 cash reward. If you could complete a hundred miles of walking in a year, something pretty, pretty easy if you added up. Yeah. And like it like 15% of the company did it in the not the rest of them. It was self reported too. So you could’ve even lied like 500 bucks or just fudged or whatever. People wouldn’t even budge for $500. Wow. Yeah. And so, I mean that seems like a nice carrot to support your walking and stuff. Yeah. I’m also thinking of Arianna Huffington and her passage from her book where she would take a nap in the workplace when she was starting and running Huffington Post, uh, with glass windowed office, fancy corner office, and she’d purposely leave the curtains open while she crashed out on the couch and had to do not disturb sign on the shirts that don’t come talk to me. Hey, you napping? Uh, yeah, but she wanted it known that the leader was napping and it’s okay.

Ron: 00:30:34 Yup.

Brad: 00:30:35 And it seems like I’m Luskin you, are we there yet in the corporate workplace or is napping like this ridiculous, um, pathetic disgrace of a person who can’t stay awake during the afternoon conference meeting?

Ron: 00:30:46 I think there is more acceptance around it than there used to be, but not enough where most employees would feel comfortable opening up the windows and napping in public. And I’ll be honest, even for me, those power naps are critical, but often I take, take them in a car, you know, before I give a lecture or something like that. You tell a story or do you tell the truth like, I’m going to go down and uh, go to the ATM four blocks away, you just said, yeah, you’re uncovering the issue that it’s still a stigma. So I don’t say that I’m going to my car to nap. Right. So even though I kinda, you know, come to the lecture with bed hair and stuff like that and people,

Brad: 00:31:17 and then we also have science coming out saying your cognitive function improves by a certain extent when you’re refreshed and that these naps have a distinctive, a measured benefit. Yeah. It just hasn’t caught on.

Ron: 00:31:31 It hasn’t caught on. And you know, there’s so much great I’m in for, you know, even the whole stress card. Right. It took a while for people, technologist tresses a true entity that interferes with cognitive function. And I think now finally, you know, corporate leaders are starting to acknowledge that and realize that we can’t just focus on the weight loss in the physical, physical aspects. But now because

Brad: 00:31:49 I don’t recognize anybody at their car, their house, right. Hey, what’s your name? Hey, what’s your name? Hey, what’s your name? Why are all these New People here? Cause everyone else quit man. Cause you work them too hard. Right, right.

Ron: 00:31:58 Exactly. So, so I think sleep still has a little bit of that stigma too, especially during work hours. But um, hopefully we can evolve towards a better situation for that.

Ron: 00:32:06 You know,

Brad: 00:32:06 So you’re in favor and napping. Doctor Ron says, go ahead.

Ron: 00:32:08 Yes. Oh my God. Naps are a godsend. Yeah, absolutely.

Brad: 00:32:12 Um, so number one is to get the population interested. Yeah. And do you have a number two? Because I’m going to, I’m going to tee you up for one, which is get the right information because we’re still being fed bullshit lines about what’s, what’s healthy and what’s not.

Ron: 00:32:28 Yeah, I mean, I think sort of pigging back on to number one is, you know, especially out here when we talk about the high tech digital world, they’re very numbers and metrics focused. Whether their work, their performance, it’s like they’re looking at percent. You know, we kind of joked about this when we were, um, did the book together about how, you know, your report card sort of stays with you for life. You know, am I getting straight A’s in every part of my life? So if you can methodically identify numbers that are meaningful for people and then sort of attach to some outcomes based on some, uh, performance goals, that can be tremendously motivating. But you got to keep it as simple as possible. So, you know, often in our patients who are diabetic, if it’s just one number, like your fasting sugar, your triglyceride, your waist circumference, if you can just stick to one number and metric and then you give them very simple things to do so they can hit it out of the park. So just like you said with that one example, let’s set that mileage goal for the year really low. So 90% of people can achieve that. Man. If you can get that win in place, then they want more as like, what’s the next step? What do I need to do to get my triglycerides a brought up from 300 to 200 how to get it to one 50 so if you can identity and for each person that’s gonna be a little bit different. But if you can sort of find ways to identify that goal that keeps them motivated and then we can sort of go onto further, further from, you know, goals that we can accomplish together.

Brad: 00:33:45 So what would you say is the most urgent thing? Not, not that we have a patient in front of us to talk about, but generally speaking, what is the, what is the, what is the biggest, uh, in the triage issue with the average worker?

Ron: 00:33:57 So I would say, um, my focus is really on metabolic health and insulin resistance. So I’m kind of laser focused on that. So number one, when I first see them, when they walk in the office, you can tell by looking a lot of these patients, whether they’re showing signs of insulin resistance even without drawing blood. So if they’ve got elevated waist circumference, and one of the things that we see in a lot of our Asian patients is they’ve got elevated waist circumference along with very slender limbs. So when I see that in my head, I’m thinking, okay, visceral fat plus very low storage space for carbohydrates because of their body’s anatomy. And that’s kind of different than a lot of our western obese folks where they might have a pot belly, but they’ve filled that pretty large limbs. Their calves are pretty muscular, their arms are muscular. So we know intuitively that they’ve got a little bit more storage space in glucose burning capacity.

Ron: 00:34:43 And we see that in the labs too. They don’t tend to show the sky high triglycerides as often as you would see in somebody with just a little bit of a pot belly and less muscle reserves. So that’s like the initial thing I look at. So already, even before I’ve done the lab, I’m like, this person looks and smells like they got some degree of insulin resistance. And then on top of that you do the basic labs and you know, we can talk for hours about advanced high level labs, but just starting with a metabolic panel where you’re look at their glucose tolerance, I’m looking at their triglycerides, ATO through a standard lipid. Um, maybe some inflammatory markers like the C reactive protein. Just starting with those, we can already make some pretty good guesses in terms of what direction we need to go in.

Brad: 00:35:21 But ,Dr Ron, you didn’t say LDL, right? Wait a second. What about my Statins to where my LDL isn’t that, isn’t that a guarantee of a happy, happy, healthy, long life? Right.

Ron: 00:35:32 So, so with the LDL and the hyperfocus on LTL, we’ve obviously lost a lot of people just by, you know, using that focus. And, and LDL was

Brad: 00:35:39 saying, I lost a lot of people, you know, uh, I mean this, this line that you dispensed, I first heard it from you. Sure. That 80% of heart attack victims may get me if I’m wrong, maybe it was the UCLA Metta study that all these heart attack victims had super low, widely considered to be healthy LDL and they’re still dropping. Yup. Yeah. They’re still dropping f of a heart attack. Right, right, exactly. Yeah. What’s that all about, man?

Ron: 00:36:03 So you know, now that most of our heart disease globally is coming from insulin resistance, the type of lipid profiles were seeing have evolved over time. The old days, yeah. Perhaps it was more related to high LDL levels, but now in the face of insulin resistance, LDL levels tend to look normal or low. And a lot of out of that is pathic mnemonic for insulin resistance because you tend to develop these small LDL particles in on a standard lipid profile that’s going to look low. So that’s involved a lot of training for both patients and doctors. I often tell them that if we make the right changes in the average insulin resistant patients, often their LDL will actually go up because they’re going from small particle to large particle. So before my, you know, referring doctors were getting nervous because it’s the weight, you just took this patient and based on their diet and lifestyle, you took them from an LDL of 90 to 130 so what are you doing? You know, what did you do wrong?

Ron: 00:36:54 But then I’d have to sort of explain to them that that’s sort of expected if you’re going to shift them into a a more healthy LDL patterns. So, so, so understanding the nuances of LDLs are really important for patients and doctors and then focusing on those other metabolic syndrome criteria. Because remember with Metabolic Syndrome, which is really the cornerstone of insulin resistance and heart disease and diabetes risk LDL is not even on the list of criteria. So whenever doctors tell me about the importance of LDL, remind them that it’s actually not one of the metabolic syndrome criteria. Now obviously above a certain threshold, one 61 90 plus et cetera. We’ve got to pay attention to the fact that they might be somewhat saturated fat sensitive. So do we need to modify diet cause it is, you know, just from being one of the pioneers in the Keto movement, some people go a little crazy and become hyper focused on sat fat and might ignore other healthy sources of fat and we can see that translate into major elevations and LDL. So we just have to be a little bit sensitive to that.

Brad: 00:37:46 The bacon and butter diet. Yay. Right. So is that a concern of yours? If you see a person who’s come in and cut their carbs and cut their insulin production, but their saturated fat intake has gone a abundant and their LDL is going up to a certain threshold where even you are going to be concerned?

Ron: 00:38:04 So it is, it’s, it’s not even more because of that LDL number. I still think as much as I’m a fan of saturated fat, it’s a part of my diet. The one thing I would say based on studies is although I don’t think saturated fat is a major player in heart disease, it also is not necessarily been proven to be as heart protective is olive oil and things like that. So you still want to diversify your fats because we clearly have more studies on Mediterranean mono un saturated fats and things where you don’t want to put all bets on sat fat, you want to mix it up between that, some natural three sources, etc.

Ron: 00:38:36 But when I do die, terrain takes on a lot of my patients that have gone low carb, 80 to 90% of their money is basically on sat fat. And there’s very little other sources around that.

Brad: 00:38:44 So, oh yeah, that’s just kind of by default a lack of awareness. They, they end up just eating.

Ron: 00:38:52 It’s the wrong type of is because I think, you know, just like any dietary movement, Brad, um, there is basically what, you know, the educated leaders of the movement are trying to transmit to the public. And then there’s the media messages and you know, the time magazine eat more butter, you know, coconut oil key. So a lot of the cornerstones of that are basically around sat that people aren’t really elevating the importance of olive oil and things. Those are kind of like the old dated fats that we used to know about.

Ron: 00:39:16 So as a result of that media messaging, I am finding that a lot of people, they’re not really diversifying their fat intake. And the interesting thing is a lot of my hyper LDL respond, uh, hyper LDL responders, when they do add even a little bit more monounsaturated or Omega threes, we sometimes see that LDL drop down pretty dramatically. And that makes us, you know, that helps us both sleep better at night. So yeah.

Brad: 00:39:36 How does that conversation go when you’re explaining to the doctor that they’re, uh, they’re, they’re intense focus on LDL though? Narrow focus on LDL is not the whole picture?

Ron: 00:39:47 It’s gone better now than it did 10 years ago. So, cause I think we have a lot more evidence around that. And the other thing I also do is even still, if I see patients that are hyper LDL responders, um, in many of my patients I will get tests like coronary calcium scans will get advanced lipid. So, so often I can come to these doctors armed with data showing, Hey look, these LDL particle numbers, they’re not terrible. They’re got type A LDL. There’s no sign of coronary calcification. You know, the metabolic, you know, numbers are all reversed, you know, body weights fine. So in the context of that why in God’s name, would we put them on a set and medication. So, you know, I don’t always order all those tests to prove my point to the specialist, but sometimes if you can provide that data, it sort of helps educate them. And I’d say now there’s just a lot more great information around this sort of LDO um, you know, paradox or you know, you know, the miseducation around LDL.

Brad: 00:40:36 Now you’re saying this calmly with a smile. We’re chilling here in the conference room, but it’s been 10 years of, I imagine. And I’ve talked to you over time, that it’s been really fighting a battle against the, uh, the, the fixed conventional wisdom that turns out that it was based on flawed assumptions.

Ron: 00:40:53 Yes, it has. In the other thing too is because I am one of these doctors that will take patients off statins or not. I know exactly. Yeah. Don’t report that

Brad: 00:41:04 we pause this podcast for commercial from Dr Ron. If you want to ditch your medications down the toilet, come see him and he’ll feed you some delicious, nutritious vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. Yeah, olive oil.

Ron: 00:41:17 Totally. But, but you know, it’s funny cause because I track these numbers so methodically and I can send flow sheets to my referring doctors often I’ll show them that, hey, guess what? This patient where I cut the Stenton despite the diet being exactly the same, the A1C and glucose has actually improved. And there’s a lot of compelling data now around the fact that insulin resistance can get worse if you’re on a statin for a long enough period of time. And that’s just, you know, making worse. The very problem that I’m trying to reverse.

New Speaker: 00:41:42 So, Brian, he’s our audio engineer. There’s your pull quote right there because that’s some scary shit. Yeah, I mean you’re going to go take your statins. And most people, w the people that I’ve talked to, they walk away with a smile. They got their pills and they feel like they’re, they’re in the safe zone now because they’re popping this stuff. It’s in the, in the psychology of the modern humans,

Ron: 00:42:03 they even did a study that showed that individuals that are prescribed statins tend to gain a certain amount of weight after the first couple of months because they feel like they’re bulletproof. I’m, you know, the drug, within three to four weeks, you drop your LDL numbers so dramatically. And they were like, Hey, uh, I can go to town now. I’m fully protected and bulletproof now.

Brad: 00:42:19 So we should do like a spoof commercial about that. You know, like, Hey, want to hot fudge Sundae? Sure. I’ve been on statins now for four weeks. I can indulge. Totally. Uh, imagine you have resistance with patients over time who are scared to go off the statin.

Ron: 00:42:35 So it goes both ways to, so I will say one thing that I definitely see patients that are super high risk, and quite frankly, they’re not gonna follow my dietary guidelines. I get a coronary calcium scan, they’ve got plaque. I’m not going to mess around these patients. There’s definitely a segment of the population that needs to be on statin medications. More people are fearful of statins. So it’s more trying to convince them that you know, you know, the statin are useful in this particular scenario. The other, um, you’re right, the other scenario does exist where people are like, are you sure I should get off the statins and I’ll never twist someone’s arm and forced them to do something that’s uncomfortable. But we do have to present to them the data about risks and really is this truly indicated that indeed in that individual situation.

Brad: 00:43:13 So just to clarify that comment you just made and put it, put a Brad spin on it. Sure. You’re recommending Stanton’s for the lazy asses that won’t make lifestyle modifications. That’s the height you’re identifying a high risk population. Is that what you mean by high risk?

Ron: 00:43:26 That yes. I mean based on a

Brad: 00:43:28 lazy, and maybe I can get a quote in the show to Brian, is high risk really lazy ass, is that our definition?

Ron: 00:43:34 Well, we do have some lazy asses that are genetically gifted and there are a numbers look incredibly well. I’m, they’ve got beautiful triglyceride day show profiles, no signs of insulin resistance. And they’re lucky they don’t have to go on the statin bandwagon

Brad: 00:43:48 Are they eating a good diet or they just lucky as heck no,

Ron: 00:43:51 Um a lot of them are eating a totally unhealthy diet, but they have been gifted with a metabolism where their metabolic numbers look great. And I see this in the clinic quite a bit and I’m jealous because their numbers are better than mine. I mean, they’ve got an HDL of 80 plus, which is, you know, incredible. You know, based on what it’s just, so genes do play a role in some of these cases and on the other hand is, you know, sometimes you will see very elite athletes and people that are doing everything right and their metabolic numbers are through the roof, you know, so you can go sort of either way on those directions.

Brad: 00:44:18 You see that you see someone who’s, who’s trying their hardest and go into whole foods every day or other expensive joints and cooking all the right stuff. And that’s coming in and looking lousy?

Ron: 00:44:27 Yeah, yeah, absolutely do. It’s a small percent. That’s where the LDL number, it can sometimes be really in discord with what their lifestyle is. And that just kind of tells us that, um, LDL is just a very tough nut to crack. You know, based on lifestyle, you can make some lifestyle changes that can clearly have an impact on LDL. But in some cases the genetics of LDLs is so strong the way your liver processes cholesterol, it’s very tough to do anything from a lifestyle perspective to make a dramatic move on. And when genes are playing a strong role.

Brad: 00:44:56 And so what does that mean for them? Are they at high risk of heart disease or can they get their triglycerides down by limiting carbohydrate intake or something?

Ron: 00:45:03 Yeah, so that’s the million dollar question. When you take somebody that let’s say is athletic, everything that you look at in your checklist they’ve met or exceeded in terms of, you know, health goals, but they have an isolated high LDL, what do you do? You know, so if you get the advanced cholesterol profile, you’re checking inflammatory markers, you get a heart scan, there’s no signs of plaque. What do you do with that person? So traditional medical western medicine would say still they need a Statin. You know, I would be leaning towards not doing a Staten, but you do have to have the conversation about the fact that yes, even with an isolated elevated LDL, there is some presumptive risk, you know. So unfortunately there’s, you know, a studies or data to look at everybody in the lipid world bets. Like the one question nobody can definitively answer. So if you talk to all the experts, you know, they’ll probably be a little bit safe and say put them on a stat and get that LDL down to 130, 100, whatever. Um, but a lot of us that are still a bit unsure and our gut check tells us that this just doesn’t look and smell like someone that’s going to have a heart attack in the next five to 10 years. We might sort of have a conversation and hold off on Stantons and sort of go from there.

Brad: 00:46:04 Can you put an individual through like the uh, the stress EKG on the treadmill and get some other indicators besides their blood work that they’re looking good in terms of cardiovascular health.

Ron: 00:46:15 So you can do all these things. So you know, so first of all, if you put them on a stress test, which you’re looking for is do they have a large enough plaque that’s obstructing their arteries during exercise, in which case a lot of them would be having symptoms while they’re exercising. If that stress test is normal, they might still have plaque. And that’s where the coronary calcium scan can be useful because you can pick up on those small plaques, but you’re still looking for calcified plaques, right? So there is still a cohort of patients that can develop noncalcified plaques that you may not see on a standard coronary calcium scan.

Ron: 00:46:44 But the, the, the good news is that the generations of images and scanners are getting much more high fidelity. So we’re pretty much close to a stage now where we can readily have accessible tests with minimal radiation exposure where you can see all types of plaques. So really that that’s going to be the, the real determinant in the near future is even if your LDL is 240, if you have a skin like this that can detect all forms of plaque, um, that’s readily accessible and we see that there’s really no evidence of any impending plaque formation or rupture, then why would you put them on a drug like that? So, uh,

Brad: 00:47:16 do you like the ratio of triglycerides to HDL as a really prominent indicator of your heart health?

Ron: 00:47:21 I love the triglyceride. It’s just a really easily accessible number. It’s not one that’s reported on most lab tests, but that’s just such a great simple indicator of early insulin resistance.

Speaker 5: 00:47:31 So even before your glucose goes up, often the triglyceride de show ratio is a nice lead indicator of whether you’re moving in that direction. So yeah.

Brad: 00:47:40 And when are we shooting for?

Ron: 00:47:41 So less than three, but the lower the better. If we can go for one, wonderful. But that does not always happen for everyone, but definitely dropping it down below three or even 2.5 to one would be great.

Brad: 00:47:51 So we’ve heard about triglycerides under one 50 is kind of an important goal to stay out of the risk zone. Yeah. The red zone. And then we want our HDL oftentimes referred over over 40 is like a, yeah. A minimum objectives. Yeah. And so now you can calculate ,listener, if we’re talking about a triglycerides of one 50 and an HDL of 50 yeah. What’s your grade there for that person?

Ron: 00:48:14 Yeah, I mean I think so. You’re right that the ratio does make sensor. So I think that’d be a good ratio. But I think if you just absolutely looked at the triglyceride, even despite having an elevated HDL, I would prefer the triglycerides to be closer to 100 or below. And these are typically the patients. I just feel like based on their numbers and falling them forward for many years, we see that their A1C’s, glucose, they’re just the most protected against in some resistant in the future. So all my goals with my patients is let’s get that triglycerides to 100 or below. And you know, if it floats up into the low one hundreds or one 50 in the HGL still fine. Yeah. Their additive risk is probably not that great. But I think 100 and below is ideal. And in most people, if you get the triglycerides below a hundred usually see a fairly substantial rise in the HDL over time.

Brad: 00:48:57 Oh, so they’re somewhat associated?

Ron: 00:49:00 Yeah, it’s, it’s almost, it’s an inverse. A, it’s an inverse association in most cases. You get that triglyceride low enough, the HCL goes up over time. So whenever people ask me, how do you get the HDL up, what are the typical things you see on web MD? Right? Drink more red wine, exercise even harder. And these things have modest impact on HDL, but getting the triglycerides down, that’s the number one indicator for getting HDL up.

Brad: 00:49:22 Oh yeah. What else has an impact on HDL? Well then you think about the things that will bring the triglyceride down, right?

Ron: 00:49:28 So lowering the carbohydrate intake, um, you know, making sure obviously you’re getting the right types of exercise, you know, you know, cutting the sugar out of the Diet. Those are the things that are gonna really help bring it down.

Brad: 00:49:38 Okay. So back to the uh, the workplace and getting motivated and concerned about our health. Now I’m concerned the listener’s interested, we’re onto the next stage, which is what are the dietary and lifestyle changes that we can make out of the gate to make the most impact?

Ron: 00:49:54 Yeah, so I’ll tell you I’m, a lot of my thoughts have sort of evolved over time because in the beginning, you know, when I started this movement it was really fixated on let’s get that carbohydrate number down as low as we can or you know, you know, at least to a reasonable threshold. And even though that’s the epicenter of my approach, cause I see so many insulin folks that are consuming loads of carbohydrates now, you know, when I see stressed out people that are in the office that are dealing with the pressures of work, home, et cetera, the last thing you want to tell them is let’s remove something from this diet that you enjoy.

Ron: 00:50:23 Especially if you’re an Asian who likes to eat rice. And I tell them we got to cut back on rice. So that goes okay with some people, with some of the people, they’re like, that’s my comfort food. That’s my package, my pack of cigarettes. You’re taking that away from me, right? I’m not smoking, I’m not drinking alcohol. But you’re taking that away. So then you know, so if someone’s motivated to do that, that’s a no brainer. That’s easy enough to do is to remove those extra carbohydrates. But now I’m really thinking about more of an additive impact on their diet. Like what are the foods that are going to energize you and keep you satiated and satisfied and happy in the context of your chaotic life. And you know, and one of the things we see in a lot of our patients is they’re just not eating enough protein.

Ron: 00:50:59 Like how do we get more diverse, healthy sources of protein into your diet? How do we add back some of the fats? Again, if you’re of Indian origin, you know, things like and coconut oil, which are a huge part of the Paleo primal ketogenic movement. Those were staple foods of Indian ancestry. And you know, based on western science, many people will have thrown out the bottle of coconut oil because they’re like my God, that’s going to contribute to my heart disease. But if I can tell them that, hey, guess what? We can add back some proteins, some of those satiating fats and let’s try a little bit more vegetables. Let’s not over cook the hell out of them, drip them in some curry sauce, but maybe we’ll try to create them in a different way. All of a sudden you’re adding things to the diet to help nourish and energize them.

Ron: 00:51:37 And oh by the way, they’re more satiated, you know? So for example, with Rice, now my technique with Rice is rather than say to cut back on rice, I asked him, do you like Biryani or fried rice? You know Biryani like Indian fried rice where you take a little bit of rice and you mix in nuts and seeds and spices and mixed vegetables. If you eat meat, you can add chicken or shrimp too. It’s like a Asian fried rice. And guess what? If you make it the right way, you can enjoy some of the rice, but you’re getting all these nutrients around it as well. So that’s been more of my sort of gentle approach to diet is how do you take these meals and make them more diverse in add nutrients without telling them, cut out the rice, eat more salads, eat more veggies, and do that.

Brad: 00:52:14 So that is, that’s pure genius man. Cause it’s all positive. Right? Go ahead. I need you to eat more of these, right. Satiating foods. Yeah. Doctor’s orders. Oh my gosh, you’re kidding. I love to eat those foods. And then by default they’re not going to be reaching for the carbohydrate snacks, weight shackling emanate from all sorts of, uh, perhaps bad ideas about cutting the fat out or being the, these low fat options, non fat milk instead of full milk and things like that.

Ron: 00:52:44 And the beauty of that is when you do that, they’ve naturally reduce their carbohydrate load by maybe 30 to 40%. They feel better. And now I can point to that number, that motivating number, the triglyceride or maybe the waist circumference. And they’re like, holy crap. I mean this has gone down just by doing that, what’s next? And then maybe I can sort of look back and say, well, we could probably cut back on these carbs a little bit.

Ron: 00:53:04 And then they’re in, they’re all in cause they feel amazing. Right? So, so again, if you’ve got a motivated person, they might be ready to go down to 30 grams of carbs. Great. Let’s run with it and do it in the best way possible. But you know, I tell people my practice is different. I’m not taking care of elite athletes. I’m taking care of elite sitters in workers and stressaholics. Right? And Arie Nicely said, right? What do you do over there at Google? I’m an elite cubicle performer. Right. And you’re the, the other interesting thing is, you know, I do have some athletes in my practice and for them their goal is their time, right? Or their body composition. But for a lot of my average patients, their goal is to be able to enjoy their traditional foods. Again, their goal is to be able to eat rice again, the way they’d like to, maybe not the way they’d like to, but at least a little bit more.

Ron: 00:53:46 And then the nice thing is, is you know, when you improve their metabolic health and you raise their, um, insulin sensitivity, their carbohydrate tolerance goes up. So once they’re getting more physically active, we’ve added some muscle on to those skinny stick legs. They can handle some more rice in their diet. And then we track the numbers and see that, guess what, you know, your numbers aren’t as bad as they were, you know, a year ago when you had the skinny fat, you know, metabolism and all of that. So, so their goal may not be to break, a world record, but maybe to eat a little bit more rice and that makes them happy. You know, that’s, those are the goals we’re trying to achieve with these patients.

Brad: 00:54:19 So, just a simple, I’m just living a simple life here. I do need to get my Red Tesla when my stock options fast and 90 days. But I also want to eat more rice. Right. That’s wonderful. So when you say raise their insulin sensitivity, just so that we’re doing a little commercial for the layman here. Yeah, that’s a good thing.

New Speaker: 00:54:37 That’s a good thing, right?

New Speaker: 00:54:38 Insulin resistance is bitty bad. Yes, absolutely. Okay.

New Speaker: 00:54:42 Yep.

Brad: 00:54:43 So when, when you say insulin sensitivity, that means the individual is, yeah,

Ron: 00:54:48 Why don’t we, we want their muscles to be able to take in more carbohydrates and use it as a fuel source when they’re insulin resistant, right? Those muscles just don’t want to take that rice and carbs and they’re going to send it towards liver to make triglycerides or storm is fatty liver. They’re going to send them to body fat. So we want to reroute that traffic. So I think one of the things that we did through our book, which has been probably the most meaningful part of the book, was the image of the carbohydrate traffic diagram.

Ron: 00:55:12 So every single patient that comes into my office, I show that image like on a piece of paper and I tell them, here’s the carbohydrate car right now. The car can’t get into the muscle parking lot. So what’s going here or here? You know, and it’s interesting, Brad, cause I see couples a lot too. And it’s interesting to be able to show the couple, and I’m sort of stereotyping, but I can tell them that you know, for the woman often the carbohydrate car’s going more towards fat, but their lipids are okay. So it’s not going as much towards the liver. In a lot of our males, it’s not really going much towards fat because they’re 30 pounds lighter than the wife, but a lot of it’s going to deliver, which is why his triglycerides are high. When you sort of explain it through that simplistic mechanism, it’s really great because now the women realize that, hey, it is an unfair world, but now I understand why this diet is

Ron: 00:55:57 Sort of working in this way for him and it’s not working for them. But really simplifying those concepts. And once you’ve engaged in simplify the concept for them, they understand what foods doing to their body, then it’s an easy sell regarding what changes they need to make. But I think in the past, you know, we, we just tell them what to do, but we don’t tell them why. And these are smart people. You can’t just tell them cut out rice and you’re going to do better. You have to tell them why. What is that rice or that flatbread or that tortilla, what is it really doing your body and this is how it works.

Brad: 00:56:25 So that education part, that’s interesting. I mean that might be the missing link for a lot of people that they’ve just heard the ESP people spouting the information but had never been sat down that, you know, it might be too busy to read a detailed book on your diet or confused because there’s these warring voices that are slamming each other and so they choose out of any awareness level. But when you get educated and know what’s going on,

Ron: 00:56:50 I will tell you after doing years of lectures that all these companies, that is the number one, because you know, I go out to companies like Google and they’ve got people way more famous than me giving talks and lectures on this stuff. But time and time again, it’s my ability to sort of explain science in a very simple way. Like what is this diet doing to your body? I lead with that. So 60, 70% of my talk is all around simplifying the science of what’s happening in your body. And that’s my cell, right? I’m there. Now as a doctor, I realize I’m actually a salesperson. Every day I’m making a sale about lifestyle. So you engage them, you hit them on the front end with the science part of it and how that applies to their body.

Ron: 00:57:25 You tie some emotion into it, you know? So I showed pictures of, you know, grandparents with their bodies look like what their lifestyle was like. Don’t you have an aunt or an uncle that looked like this? This is what’s happening. You tie some emotion to that education and then basically you can introduce the lifestyle principles and it’s much easier that way. And really I think when people come back to me and tell us feedback about the book, and I’ve got to hand it to you and Mark because you guys were so open about really making the book more about storytelling. You know, a lot of people tell me, I remember that case in chapter one. That’s me, you know, or that woman in chapter three, those stories had as much of an impact is my dietary advice of eating 150 carbs or whatever, you know.

Ron: 00:58:01 So. So I think a lot of people listening on the show might be health champions, leaders, coaches, maybe some docs. I think we need to focus more of our energy on making the cell in a emotionally connecting way. And that’s really my passion now. I mean, I can definitely dig into more research and look up more articles and I like doing that. That’s a science part of my head. But there’s another part of my brain that’s more the right brain. How would I create images and stories and messages that will really motivate people so they can make the right changes.

Brad: 00:58:28 Wow. That’s big. And I’m thinking back to some experiences I had with doctors, like when I got my a bone scan and identified that I had a stress fracture and so I couldn’t run in college anymore and the guy came into the room and today you got a, you got a stress factor. See the hotspot right there. Yeah. So you can’t run. All right. See Ya. You know, I mean if he had gone and said, hey, why did you run so much that your, your, your shinbone was in throbbing pain before you started that last run. That really led to the stress fracture and what’s going on here. You know, that that would be like an ideal doctor exchange where the person’s in the position to have you modify your lifestyle habits.

Ron: 00:59:04 Exactly. So we need to build machines in Silicon Valley that can do that for us. Right. So until that happens,

Brad: 00:59:09 well now the machines are doing the surgery. So you could just be like, I know. Right. You know, that’s why you should have Dr Ron podcast. I know people are, you think you’re too busy, but you can just do that all day. No kidding. Yeah. The, the book you’re talking about is the South Asian Health Solution. And if you’re from South Asian heritage, you absolutely have to read it. It’s mandatory. And if you’re not, unfortunately, you know, the title might, might kind of be a niche, niche audience. But yeah, it ha s so much great content in there for everyone to understand. And that car drawings and the graphics were the, the, the um, you know, the, the, the car goes full. They can’t do anything. So then they have to go dig a detour and put it into fat storage. Right. It’s unforgettable. It really, you get what’s going on in your body. Totally. Yep.

Ron: 00:59:54 Yeah. I think anybody can relate to it. Yeah, for sure.

Brad: 00:59:56 So you said, um, that waist circumference is the indication that you’re developing some visceral fat, which is the one of great concern is this for males and females?

Ron: 01:00:06 It is, yeah. Right.

Brad: 01:00:07 And so everything else we see about the different body types. And the, uh, the, the curvy gals versus the, the slender ones. Yeah. All that stuff. Sort of independent of this, um, this concern that you can identify about waist circumference ratio or something.

Ron: 01:00:22 Right. And you know, that one of the challenges with the waist for conference ratios is it’s not something that’s easily measured. It’s not really repeatably measured and in healthcare systems, it’s not something that’s being done because you can just check a weight so much more quickly and calculate a body mass index. But just to keep things simple. I mean, for most people, like when they’ve made changes, one of the main questions I ask them is, are your pants getting loose? Or like, you know, can we sort of be able to tell that there is some reductions in that visceral fat and see some health improvements from that.

Ron: 01:00:49 Um, but it’s not always easy to tell just in the clinic because some of my patients, they visibly look like they don’t have that extra belly fat. But that’s when the metabolic numbers can really tell you that they’re socking some fat away. And that can be the high triglycerides. Often we’ll get liver function tests for anybody that looks and smells like they’ve got insulin resistance. You want to check liver function tests like the AST alt, which are the liver inflammatory markers, and often you will start seeing some mild early elevations in those numbers and sometimes we’ll have to get an ultrasound to document fatty liver. But yeah, it’s just of the body size is an important tool. But I’d still say, Brad, it’s sort of a blunt tool. You know, if we could do body scans obviously more readily in the doctor live or see if it’s coded in yellow.

Ron: 01:01:29 Yeah, right. Totally. And that that is, I mean, as much as we joke, this is a star trek medicine that we’re going to see people walking into a room and they’re already get fully scanned. You know, we get to see their coronary arteries more clearly. We get snapshots of their liver, we got more sensitive blood tests that we’re doing. And that’s really going to be the future where we can more definitively tell you that, yeah, you’re somebody that’s got more of this harmful visceral fat, even though your numbers may not be aligned there. We can catch those things early. So that’s my other messages. How do you find these clues for these chronic health conditions as early as possible? So that’s where you brought up the ratio. The ratio is a great way to, you know, look up, I’m basically diabetes rates. So instead of waiting for glucose, I call the high triglyceride date show ratio. That’s pre prediabetes. Why wait for prediabetes? Right. Wait for it, you know, you know, catch it before the glucose even goes up.

Brad: 01:02:12 So, oh, so then the next stage in the disease process is you’re seeing an elevated fasting glucose.

Ron: 01:02:19 Exactly. Yeah.

Brad: 01:02:20 What are, what are our concerns? What are your numbers that you’re, uh,

Ron: 01:02:22 yeah, I mean, again, if you took a cutoff of a fasting glucose on a standard lab, we’re looking at anything above a hundred, right? So, so ideally we’d like to get that below a hundred. But in our patients that are doing really well, probably more in the eighties you know, below 90 would probably be more ideal. One thing I’ll tell you the, after looking at a lot of fasting blood glucose is over the years is sometimes you can get somebody to do everything right. Their ratios are good, their A1Cs are good, but they just can’t get that darn fasting sugar down to below a hundred.

Ron: 01:02:50 And I see that a ton in my practice. And what I would tell you is I wouldn’t overreact to that. Like that’s just one single data point. Like if you’re in other numbers are great, um, don’t fixate on a one-on-one blood glucose because often that’s just an exaggerated cortisol response that we see a lot because a lot of our folks here out in Silicon Valley, again, and that’s silicon silica anywhere worldwide, there are played at night, they’re looking at digital devices, they’re going to bed in a very high cortisol state and often the liver will respond by pulsing out a little bit of extra sugar. And I’ve seen that in my case, even when I’m in the best of health metabolically, when things are crazy, you know, I’ve worked deadlines, corporate deadlines, whatever I do from a dietary standpoint, I cannot get my glucose below 100 no matter what I do.

Ron: 01:03:32 It’s amazing. I go on vacation sometimes eat more carbs and sometimes I have my meter and my glucose is doing great in the morning.

Brad: 01:03:37 So I’m so, I’m so glad to hear that because when I was doing my ketogenic experiment deep into extreme carb restriction and long fasting periods, yeah I’d prick my finger. Sometimes there’d be like one 31 like WTF, welcome to Facebook. What the heck is that? And then I go, okay, well I haven’t eaten anything in 18 hours. And before that I had an omelet and before that I had a steak. Right. So what’s going on? And I guess my, I was making the glucose I needed, possibly it was post workout or some crazy thing where I’m going, i

Ron: 01:04:10 t’s hats off to our livers cause our liberals will do anything to protect us. So as much as you’re doing great metabolically, your liver is still kind of like a protective grandmother that likes to feed you sugar every now and then. So. So sometimes it’ll like float out a couple of grains of sugar that’s going to show up, especially in the morning when cortisol levels are high. So I’ve learned now because I’ve had patients get so frustrated, I’ve been frustrated. I just sort of let that go now unless we’re seeing trend lines that are really consistently high and we’re seeing other factors. So in some of those patients I might do a glucose tolerance test where they get fed that sugar drink and you measure their glucose and their insulin levels and often that comes back perfectly fine. So if that their A1C and other numbers are fine, I’m not going to overly fixate on that. But it is a great way, Brad, to get people to think about balance and evening routines, you know? So really making sure, can we get off devices? Can we do some mindfulness type things, some gratitude practices because you’re going to bed way too amped up.

Ron: 01:05:02 And sometimes that will translate into better sugar. Sometimes it doesn’t, but it still gets people into the habit of being a little bit more mindful about what their nighttime routine is.

Brad: 01:05:10 Oh, fun. So we can track our morning glucose, uh, with that other level in mind of how well we were. Chill. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Um, and we also want to, uh, cover some of the other fun stuff. Now that I’ve gotten through some medical science. Hopefully you’re following along listener. I mean, you did a fantastic job, you know, just getting it tied back into real life circumstances and region, eating more of the, uh, what is it, the Biryani is that where you have all the go and then that center exactly. Just pile the meat on pile the yeah, proteins is speaking of basketball. Yes. I did that with my, my sons, uh, high school players. Cause I know you’ve got kids coming into the hoop scene big time. Um, and the guys would come over and say, hey guys, you want a smoothie? And some popcorn. There was a my to go to things to feed, you know, uh, a mass of, uh, young basketball players. I haven’t thought about popcorn. That’s a good, yeah. But like I’d put it in the smoothie, like giant scoops of coconut oil and so you get this chocolate smoothie that looked like a normal chocolate smoothie, but it had like a thousand calories in one, you know, what is, and then these guys would get full, so they’d just, they have a little popcorn. They wouldn’t go raiding the cupboards and eating all this other crap sugar because they didn’t realize it, but they just had this massive caloric bond and the Smoothie,

Ron: 01:06:20 you send me that recipe, that was an amazing recipe.

Brad: 01:06:23 I remember seeing that, you know, section finalists, second round of the state tournament, man plaster high drinking those coconut oil, the secret coconut oil smoothies. Right. So you have great articles on your blog. Yeah. I get drawn in and it’s, you know, makes you reflect way beyond the, the medicine, the blood tests. So I thought we’d get some of that. Sure. Um, especially, you know, you’re coming from Silicon Valley and seeing maybe the whole thing on steroids. But I think everybody can relate to these concepts like ruminating.

Ron: 01:06:52 Yeah. Well I think, you know, the other area of focus is sort of led to thinking about mental health is, you know, my wife being a pediatrician, we’re are seeing a lot of these chronic health conditions showing up in our kids. You know, when, you know, whenever I talk to my wife during, you know, during her medical training, she didn’t learn to address insulin resistance in young kids and teenagers, you know, anxiety, depression, these types of things.

Brad: 01:07:14 She’s, she’s training in pediatrics, but she’s not covering this stuff.

Ron: 01:07:17 Yeah. Because these are supposed to be adult stuff. This is stuff that Ron should be training and not, you know, a pediatrician who should be seeing more childhood disorders. But, but now we’re really seeing a lot of these adult mental and metabolic health conditions presenting and young kids and teens. So it’s been sort of a passionate thing for me because interestingly, like I told you, often we’ll see spouses in the, in the exam room. Now, often I’ll see the parents and they bring their teenager, their kid into the visit. And when you look at the whole family’s metabolic profile, often you’ll see a lot of similarities and, and we’re starting to understand that, wow, I mean a lot of these conditions, you know it’s really driven by common thought patterns. You know, a lot of motivation.

Ron: 01:07:52 So the same hard driving father or mother has a kid also that feels like they’re not getting the grades so they need to do more extracurricular activities. You know, they got to do more academic enrichment. So these behavioral patterns are leading to similar metabolic manifestations. But it’s scary when you start seeing those signs in a nine year old, right? Versus somebody that’s 40 or 50 and that’s an additional, it’s not, it’s not a type of motivation like to use. But often I have to pull that out if I’ve got the family in the room, I’ve got to tell them that these health behaviors are already manifesting in multiple generations

Brad: 01:08:23 . Teenagers are going, see dad, I told you, leave me alone just cause I got a few Cs.

Ron: 01:08:29 Yeah, right, exactly. You can imagine the conversation there.

Brad: 01:08:32 So we’re passing our, our junk onto our kids as we are.

Ron: 01:08:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: 01:08:36 I mean, it’s okay for you to go be stressed at your, your important job. But like sure we’re, we’re bringing that into the, into the home. Yeah.

Ron: 01:08:43 But Brad, when I was a kid, I don’t know what you were eating, but in my high school, my high school was a block away from McDonald’s. I probably went to McDonald’s three to four days, you know, a week. And I ate all kinds of garbage. My parents were both working. I was a latchkey child, but I also spent a lot of time riding my bike and playing outdoors and doing a lot of things.

Brad: 01:08:59 So, and studying medical texts in his spare time before his parents got home.

Ron: 01:09:02 Right, exactly. But there was a lot of natural activity I was doing as a kid, which today’s generations aren’t doing. So they’re accumulating a lot more of those junk foods into their diet, but they’re just not playing and being outdoors. I tell people through bathing and screen light instead of sunlight. So, right. So, and now we’re seeing really the manifestations of that in young kids and the parents aren’t setting good role models as well. Either they’re on their devices just as much. So, so it’s an opportunity to really think about the whole mental and physical health aspects and you know, sort of track these numbers together as a family. But yeah, I think an eye opener for all of us should be that this is having a major impact on just the next generation below us. The fact that they’re manifesting with these conditions at such an early age. Yeah.

Brad: 01:09:42 As a parent, I have a strict rule when it’s 10 o’clock, I text both my kids and say, get off your devices.

Ron: 01:09:47 Do they listen?

Brad: 01:09:48 How would show I’m sending a text through a house into the closed door bedrooms, but it’s, um, it’s a big concern of mine because we didn’t have that. Just like you said, at least you walk to the McDonald’s, right? What was it, three blocks? Yeah. Well you got a great workout going to get your, your fries and your right, uh, you know, harmful vegetable oils. But today the kids are driving to the McDonald’s, right?

Ron: 01:10:13 Or Door Dash a directly home or something then so

Brad: 01:10:16 I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. So how’s that work with the family conversations? How’s that go over?

Ron: 01:10:23 It works well. But you know, when you have a family in the room, you’ve got to set some guidelines before the conversation starts. Because typically what was happening the past, especially with couples, is if I told the husband something the wife would not or hadn’t see, I told you so doctor, and you know, and then that creates a different dynamic. So meal, I have to say that no, the rules are, we can’t be judging each other. This is a positive conversation. We’ve got to be encouraging. And then I’ll sort of go one by one through what each of the different family members can do. So you’ve got to sort of take that approach. But you brought up the word rumination. So again, getting back to the root causes. Yeah, we can address, keep the junk out of the, you know, the pantry. Let’s address a diet. Those things are important, but, but we’re just seeing an epidemic. Uh, in middle school and high school have a lot of um, kids that are just dealing with chronic stress, depression, anxiety. I mean, you know, the, the case of Gunn High School, ironically named Gunn High School in Palo Alto with all the suicides that happen in these affluent families with just really, um, you know, um, just shocking to the entire community. They ain’t even worldwide people responded to that. So, um, you know, we really need to think about what are those root causes.

Ron: 01:11:25 And, and rumination is a very simple way for me to think about that because again, I treat mental health kind of like diabetes. Remember we talked about don’t wait for the sugar to get high, try to identify it as early as possible. For me, rumination is kind of like pre anxiety or pre depression because it is a common thought process. And if you can catch it happening on a regular basis, it is one of the underlying precursors to anxiety or depression. And the simple, beautiful way to sort of think about this is if you tend to ruminate more on past events, that’s really more depression. You know, why did this happen? How did I end up here? You know, if you’re drawing a lot in the past and ruminating on those thoughts, your spectrum is probably more towards depression. If you’re constantly ruminating on future, you know, what’s gonna happen when this happens?

Ron: 01:12:07 You know, when I get this job, what’s gonna Happen to my kids out of the house? Are they going to do okay that that’s normal? Some amount of worry is okay, but rumination is a constant, almost an obsession with those thoughts. And if it’s more future stated, the contents more future thinking, that’s more anxiety basically. And we know it’s not so black and white. There’s a lot of mixtures between depression and anxiety, but often catching it. That stage can really help you acknowledge that thought pattern and then think of specific ways to break that behavior.

Brad: 01:12:35 Well, those go together so frequently. So I suppose you could be someone who is either a lamenting the past or stressing about the future. Alternatively, back and forth, non stop and there’s no mindfulness, there’s no present.

Ron: 01:12:48 That’s, that’s exactly right. Anybody, most of the patients that you see at later stages, most patients don’t just have clear black and white depression, anxiety often it is a combination of both.

Brad: 01:12:57 So, and this is across the age groups. You mentioned the concerns about the teens, but I imagine you seeing adult patients doing the same thing.

Ron: 01:13:04 Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And then so, so then if you take a step back and think what’s driving those ruminating thoughts? Right. So that’s the bigger question is what, where is that coming from? And you know, all of us are gonna ruminate to some extent, but often it is as an adult, you know, if we were told from an early age that you didn’t achieve this, you didn’t do that, you know, you’re getting straight A’s, you know, that’s not enough that that carries on later into life. It’s a subconscious sort of recording that takes place at, I gotta do more, you know, so it’s all, I’ll tell you my personal anecdote is like, uh, you know, when I grew up, I sort of went to into medicine sort of as a default mechanism cause my brother was supposed to go into it and he didn’t.

Ron: 01:13:39 And I can’t say I was a guy that yeah, I want to go out and save lives, but I was like, I’m good in science. Maybe I’ll go into it, you know? And then my dad being a doctor, he was sort of like, yeah, you’re doing primary care, but why didn’t you think about specializing? And he was very gentle about that, but he was like, it’d be great if you specialize, you became a cardiologist, you’ll make a lot more money, you’ll save a lot more lives. And I wasn’t ready, Brad, to go into three or four more years of training. So I kind of ditched that and I was done. And although I had a very positive parenting environment every now and then that seed’s in the back of my head. And I think that in some ways it drives me because I’m like, I want to go out and do whatever I can, but sometimes it does cause you to ruminate on, okay, what’s next?

Ron: 01:14:12 You know? So it can be very subtle. A lot of us are very positive parents, but we can send very subtle messages or we can behave in a way, um, that your kids are modeling themselves after. If you’re type A, your kid’s probably going to turn out to be type A in some ways. And maybe that’ll lead to success in certain areas, but in other areas, if they’re not satisfied, they’re going to be ruminating on what do I do to make myself better? So, so it’s, it’s kind of a, it’s a, it’s a very fine balance, you know? So we have to be really aware of the messages that we send our kids around these things.

Brad: 01:14:41 I think the type A’s in many cases are afraid to let that go for a brief moment, even to let that type A calm down. And with those voices, their laces tied down, right?

Ron: 01:14:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brad: 01:14:53 What do you think?

Ron: 01:14:54 Yeah. I think that’s, it’s, it’s hard to turn that sort of thought process off. So, you know, even me a, I would say I’m probably, I don’t know how you’d judge me, but I’d say I’m probably borderline Type A but, but, but often what I have to do with my kids is, you know, I have to show them that even in the midst of all this, that I’m able to disconnect and chill out. And I sort of, I verbalize that with the family. I’m like, you know, even though I’ve got these deadlines, we need to get out, walk the dog and do some of this. Cause otherwise, you know, this is not going to be good for her. So, so were my and my wife and are constantly verbalizing these things in the course of our daily life. So doing this and doing it right

Brad: 01:15:27 and doing it so

Ron: 01:15:27 they’ve gotta be able to see that.

Brad: 01:15:28 I mean, I’ve found that like, there’s like a 10 to one effectiveness ratio of my speeches versus my actions and yeah. Walking my talk and things like that. Right. And that’s not to even, not to discount the speeches. Right, right. Because my kids, I’m telling them to relax when they attend the both in college. Enjoy this, enjoy the learning, enjoy the experience, read the book, don’t stress about tests. And I’ll say that to them over and over. I can’t model that. Yeah. So it is important to, you know, these are, these are values that I harbored that you should have an enjoyable experience studying in college with zero stress about grades or where it’s going to lead. What are you going to do with that degree? Except art history. So what are you going to do with that? Yeah. Oh No, I’m going to go and live my life. And so I want to counter all the cultural forces that are saying, um, yeah. What are you going to do with that?

Ron: 01:16:20 Exactly. It’s hard. It’s built into our DNA so much. But you know, if, if the, if the backside of that is, you know, having somebody that’s graduated from a prestigious university that ends up falling sort of the dream and they ended up depressed, divorced with a chronic health condition. As a parent, is that what you want to see? And in my practice, you know, I see a lot of c level executives and people that on paper or the front of magazines have hit all the bars. They’re on their second marriage or a third marriage or you know, all types of things are happening in and you just realize it for them to get to that point, it’s just they had to make a lot of sacrifices and, and you know, often later in their life they’re like, I wish I spent more time with my kids. I wish, man, I wish I made more basketball games and things like that. Things that they sacrificed, you know, build maybe a better life in some ways. But now they’re reflecting back and having those regrets. I think we just have to think about the consequences of those actions.

Brad: 01:17:10 Jack Welch, my favorite example is, is a line from his book. Yeah. And he was talking about how, you know, the culture of, of working at a GE and everyone came in on Saturday because he went in on Saturday and he now he has regrets and wonders and they sent and started for instance, comma my children. So his children were, for instance, not my children suffered and I didn’t get to know them, but he said, for example, my yard, you know, overcame overgrown with weeds. For instance, I didn’t exercise much. For instance, my kids, they’re , same category.

Ron: 01:17:43 Yeah. That’s, yeah.

Brad: 01:17:45 So if we’re listening, uh, out, shout out to the other parents, get to those basketball games, right. Or read whatever, whatever’s going on. Even if it’s time in the back yard drawing a, I like to do clay sculptures with my daughter. It’s great. We’re not not selling any.

Ron: 01:18:00 Yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah. You’re not trying to build a startup like there. They’re here with the family. That’s the, that’s a family event here with try to build a startup early on and put it on your college application. So, right, so yeah, it’s a,

Brad: 01:18:12 what do you think? Your kids are going to be in those college ages pretty soon and the competitiveness of the application process and all that.

Ron: 01:18:20 I think the whole application, I wish somebody could intervene and just stop the madness with, with the whole college application process because I think it creates so much tension for the entire family. It doesn’t send the right signals. I don’t have a solution for that, but I wish somebody really smart in the innovation world could really help redefine the whole college application process. But we’ve decided to go in and we first of all have not set any goals for schools. For career. It’s exactly what you talked about is just how do we get them to enjoy school as much as possible. I’ve got to say when when I went through school in high school, I don’t really think of it as an enjoyable process. It was just a process basically, but teaching them how to really pick classes that they like, you know how to learn, how to learn. You know, how to like create diagrams, take notes in ways. It’s more interactive discussions today. You know, the the plus side of technology is man, it’s really cool to learn us history when you can watch a short youtube video about the American revolution or something like that.

Ron: 01:19:11 So I think there’s an opportunity to just make school and education a lot more meaningful and memorable. But yeah. The yeah, I got to tell you, I don’t have any solutions on the college application process right now cause it’s a nightmare.

Brad: 01:19:22 I just thought of one tell me, it could just be complete lottery. So as long as you pass all your classes and get a 3.0 you apply to Stanford and you get in just like you get into, um, you know the, the, the Boston marathon that’s overflowed or whatever. Nice. Yeah, just a lottery. And then you show up freshman, freshmen on campus. Who are these guys? I don’t know. I just got in like, it wasn’t that, it wasn’t like the elite maximum. Totally maximum. Swapportunity yeah, I love it. How Fun.

Brad: 01:19:51 Dr Ron. I feel like we have five more shows today from all the little tangents or topics we hit. But it was, it was really fast moving. Yeah. Maybe I’ll inspire you to start your own podcast or at least come back on as we try to, Oh, you know, for ourselves. That’s kind of the theme. And the reason I titled that is like, it seems like a solution to some of these things like ruminating and placing too much importance on the day to day outcome of what you’re doing rather than focusing and enjoying the process.

Ron: 01:20:18 You know, and I gotta give a hats off to you because I think again, coming back to sort of the whole lifestyle, low carb ketogenic movement, what I’ve seen is for some people it’s kind of led to some situations where they’re putting even more pressure on themselves, right? In terms of body Cam, you’ve probably seen this as well. Do I understand her? Right? So often it can take a type A and turn them into a type A in every part of their lay type AAA.

Ron: 01:20:43 But I think your show and a lot of the work you and Mark have done has really tried to put more life balance into this movement. And I think more of the health leaders out there need to really follow suit because, uh, I’ve definitely seen some people develop a lot of frustrations and mental health and anxiety because they’re not hitting those targets.

Brad: 01:20:57 So are they coming to see you and they’re, they’re in good metabolic health, but they’re feeling frustrated. Know those people.

Ron: 01:21:04 I will initially when I was in is mindful of the impact of what, what it would have. They would come back to me, maybe a, you know, maybe a year out instead of six months and say, I was kind of afraid to see you cause I kind of fell off the wagon and I felt like you’d be disappointed in my triglycerides and this and that. So, so after I saw enough of those patients, I’m like, I’ve gotta be much more sort of gentle with the framing of sort of what are our goals here? Right. Is it really to develop a six pack or is it really to make some small changes that you feel more energetics better about yourself? Right. I’m sorry, I’m wrong answer. Okay. Both, all of the above. Right. So, yeah. So, so I think, um, you know, really kind of setting those expectations. You know, that’s something else we talk about in rumination too is what are your expectations for everything you try to accomplish. And maybe we need to be more realistic with what we’re setting.

Brad: 01:21:49 So you’re getting into it with a patient and on this level, cause I thought you only had seven minutes now with the average patient interaction.

Ron: 01:21:54 I know.

Brad: 01:21:55 So is this a, you’re giving a lot of talks. What does your day look like in your role there with the larger point?

Ron: 01:22:00 I do have an unfair advantage because I don’t necessarily, I don’t have a concierge practice, but it’s a, it’s a consult practice. So I get 60 minutes with every new patient. So I do have that advantage of being able to talk through a lot of these situations. So they get the diagram, they get the, you know, the talk on metabolic health, they understand the signs and then it’s not always just the first visit. Maybe I’ll drop in a couple of pearls around stress and goal of lowering, but it might be a followup visit in three months where we started talking a bit more about emotional health and balance and things too. So it’s gotta be layered.

Ron: 01:22:30 That sounds like a nice perk. If I’m working at Google, Facebook, oracle, whoever you’re taking care of, that’s pretty awesome. 60 minutes with Dr Ron, you want to give a shout out to some employers? I mean then then we can like, you know, use this as a recruiting podcast.

Ron: 01:22:42 All of the above, man. Everything you, that’s who you work for you,

Brad: 01:22:45 I mean those guys, one of many. Yeah.

Ron: 01:22:47 So with each of these companies it’s a different type of service. It might be lectures and my peer mobile onsite clinic, which goes out there, it’s an RV where we get primary care doctors at the busy employees. So yeah, you, you, you name an employer. We’re probably working with them in some way.

Brad: 01:23:01 Is there any big place that’s doing a fabulous job going above and beyond to look after their employees? Health and balanced living?

Ron: 01:23:07 I think, I mean, I think that there are a lot of companies now that are evolving in that direction. So, so for example, I think Google does great work in this area because they really have created a culture and an environment that really helps facilitate healthy changes. I think in any environment. You know, a lot of times I think the problem in Silicon Valley is people like to blame the company for everything. Um, but often, you know, the employees can really, you know, take control of their lives and do a lot because many companies that are even trying their best, it always comes back to the employee who’s addicted to work or they just want to keep driving. And sometimes they might turn to the company as being, okay, this is the place that’s really driving these changes. But often it does come back to our own roots. So,

Brad: 01:23:43 Ooh, that reminds me of my podcast with Isaac Rochelle, the NFL defensive end for the La chargers. And we’re talking about how, you know, these organizations don’t really treat the players like the, the multimillion dollar economic assets that they, they are, they’re, they’re, you know, the physical athlete is put back onto the field too soon and they’re not looking after them with longterm interest. They want to get them back and play and inject them with whatever painkiller. And that was acknowledged. And he also said, man, the athlete’s got to take, take responsibility here too. You’re a professional athlete. What you put into your body is utmost important. So I think the knowledge worker the same when you’re working too many hours, these guys are smart. Go look at the research and what happens to your cognitive performance when you’ve gone past that time. Yup. And now, I don’t know. What do you, what do you, what are you doing out there still? Exactly.

Ron: 01:24:33 Yeah. No, you’re right.

Brad: 01:24:34 So where can we find these fabulous blog articles and see what, see what you’re up to. We know about the book South Asian Health Solution.

Ron: 01:24:41 Yeah. I mean it’s got a long URL, but um, my, I blog at culturalhealthsolutions.com and so that’s where you can find a lot information about wellness programs and lectures and any events that are coming out locally or globally as well to a

Brad: 01:24:55 Sassy tweets too. Right?

New Speaker: 01:24:56 Sassy tweets were probably not as often as they should be.

Brad: 01:24:59 Didn’t you say 11 million people are taking the wrong medication? That was one of your tweets I think. Maybe. Yeah. I was like, okay, that’s a lot of people and that’s a lot of wrong medications going out. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Dr Ron. Huh? Thank you so much.

Ron: 01:25:12 Hey, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks so much. I’m going to get you back.

Brad: 01:25:15 I’m going to track you down. We’re going to get you back.

Ron: 01:25:16 Hey, you know where to find me.

Brad: 01:25:20 Thank you. Listeners. Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback at getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars, and it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.


(Breather) Once you grab what Dr. Peter Attia calls the “low hanging fruit” of healthy eating, movement, physical fitness and sleeping habits, it’s time to progress further with health, happiness, and longevity by developing emotional control/emotional self-stability (Thank you Kris Gage on Medium.com!), by implementing effective relationship communication strategies (tips from John Gottman, Harville Hendricks, Esther Perel, and Mia Moore, aka the “Big Four” relationship experts).

First things first: stress management. Everyone deals with stress, but learning how to manage your stress and the way you react will change your life.  Your first priority should be emotional control. Self-stability is the number one relationship attribute and the number one psychological health attribute. Be aware of how your emotions can either help or hinder you in your life. Now, it may be easy for you to say: ‘Well, I’m a Type-A personality, this is just how I am.’ Well did you know the term ‘Type-A’ originated as a heart attack risk category?! Do you really want to be in ANY of those categories? Didn’t think so….so slow down, it’s going be okay.  

Another factor in stress management lies in the fact that downtime is missing: social time is seriously MIA, having been crowded out by digital stimulation. Longevity superstars, the Okinawa in Japan, have social groups as the centerpiece of culture (“Ikigai”) but in our world, people really struggle with disconnecting. My advice? To turn that $#!% OFF. Escape tech addiction and hyperstimulation by taking a low-stress approach to a total lifestyle transformation, yet with discipline and focus to your natural full potential. 

As Mia Moore says, don’t waste time sweating the small stuff! Make sure to carve out time for the important things, like taking care of yourself. How much time do you devote to self-care? Have you been too busy taking care of your kids? I contend ANYONE has time since we’re all checking our phones 150 times a day and gazing at screens for hours a day. Now, if you’re stuck in a pattern of prolonged stillness, then you’re used to having low to no energy, nor any motivation to go outside and do things. And because of this, it’s crucial that we keep moving. The good news? The more you move, the more energy you have! 

One thing that takes time and energy are relationships. Whether familial, friendly, or professional, platonic or romantic, interacting with other people and handling the dynamics that can emerge between two different and distinct personalities is never easy. But your personal relationship should never be a source of stress in your life. As John Gottman says, when it comes to partnerships, you’re either a team, or you’re not a team – at all times, and within every interaction. It’s that simple – don’t be nit-picky or passive aggressive with your partner, and watch your words. Be mindful about the dialogue you create with your partner, and how much negativity is present in your words versus positivity, because keeping your positive comments to negative comments at a 20:1 ratio, as the Gottman Institute’s research has clearly proven, is key to a healthy, happy, lasting partnership. 

Speaking of healthy and happy, Harville Hendrix has three rules to live by for successful communication in relationships. Number one is safety, number two is maintaining a zero-negativity policy, and number three is making constant affirmations to your partner. As Esther Perel says, “treat your partner like you would a great client.” Truthfully, we all deal with fear and anxiety, but it only harms your relationship when you let whatever is going on with you affect your partner in a negative way. When I had Dave Rossi on the show, we discussed fear and anxiety, and the importance of re-directing your mind and those negative, fearful thoughts over to your values and vision. Anxiety and fear are frequent visitors in daily life for most people, so instead of getting tripped up by every appearance they make, why don’t you just focus on your values, instead of trying to find the quickest way to make the pain go away? Unfortunately, in our stressful modern world, people can lose track of this. We all heard of the college admissions scandal earlier this year. All those parents who “just wanted the best for their children” are probably finding the more than likely prospect of jail time to be far more stressful than the college admissions process! Sure, hindsight is illuminating, but the point is not to have regrets, but to harness the right perspective, so you don’t react to life by coming from a place of fear and anxiety, but rather from a positive and confident mindset. 


Brad gives a quick summary of Basic Life Changing Insights breather show part one. {02:38] 

Part of stress management is getting your romantic relationship under control. [05:51] 

Relationship priority is emotional control and emotional self-stability. [06:51] 

We have to always balance this quest for peak performance with downtime and optimal stress-rest-balance. [09:47] 

Humans crave social connection.  Interact in a live manner, rather than a digital manner. [11:14] 

When you continually do things that don’t bring you joy and energy, a sense of wellbeing and peace of mind, you’re going to drift away from those. [14:30] 

Carbohydrates have addictive properties. Sugar is addictive.  [16:28] 

Gluttony and sloth are not causes of obesity; they are symptoms of obesity; [19:06] 

Try out some time restricted feeding and intermittent fasting. [21:51] 

Your relationship is either a team or not a team at all times.. [23:54] 

Try for a 5 positive to 1 negative ratio when communicating your needs. [26:10] 

Fear and anxiety come up for all of us. [30:24]

Safety, zero negativity, and constant affirmations are the foundations of a healthy relationship. [37:26]



Download Episode MP3

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high-stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 04:17 Hello listeners. Yes, it’s time for part two of the breather show. Simple, basic life changing advice. Let’s get right to it. Remember where we left off. Tackling that low hanging fruit to get you most of the way towards super duper healthy. Quick summary. Step number one was get your mind right and recognize there’s a problem and an urgent need to counter the unhealthy forces of the modern world with healthy lifestyle practices in assorted areas. Number one is getting your mind right. Number two is cleaning up your diet. Get rid of grains, sugars, refined vegetable oils. Number three is move more particularly J F W just freaking walk more. Number four is get your fitness game on point with a sensible blend of comfortably paced aerobic workouts. 180 minus your age and beats per minute. Regular resistance training, strength training sessions, and occasional brief all out sprints. Yeah. Then we go on to sleep, prioritizing sleep, making it the number one health objective, always to ensure that you get enough sleep starting with the urgent need to minimize excess artificial light and digital stimulation after dark and creating a wonderful calming, dark, cool sleep sanctuary. And that was show one right there. So if you don’t have 30 minutes to listen, we covered everything in a minute and a half. Huh?

Brad: 05:51 But where to from there? So we’ve established a healthy foundation. We got the junk out of our diet and then we want to kind of escalate our commitment to healthy living by delving into other categories, particularly stress management, healthy relationships, healthy interactions, managing your emotions. So here’s some points there to pick up. Show number two, as we get more sophisticated life changing advice. Please go back and listen to the amazing show I did with Dr. John Gray. The best selling relationship author of all time with his men are from Mars. Women are from Venus book series. I also did a, uh, very handy summary Show, uh, reflections. Deconstructing my interview with him and kind of summarizing all the great advice that he gives a in his most recent book, especially Beyond Mars and Venus and optimizing hormones and getting in that healthy balance with your romantic partner.

Brad: 06:51 So under the category of stress management, we want to get those relationships under control and that starts with thank you Kris Gage relationship writer on the medium.com for this life changing insight. Number one, relationship priority is emotional control and emotional self-stability. That’s arguably the number one attribute for psychological health in general. You want to have some management control over your emotions. Easier said than done, but it starts with disengaging from that harmful subconscious programming that we wire in from ages zero to six and then operate 95 to 99% of the time from our subconscious programming in daily life. We’re going through life essentially as zombies. This concept is proven scientifically by the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton, Biology of Belief, uh, the writings of Dr Deepak Chopra talking about this concept of mindfulness. This is what it really means is being aware of your actions, being aware of how you impact others and being aware of how your emotions impact your happiness, your ability to go through life in a healthy manner.

Brad: 08:06 So emotional control and emotional self stability, thinking before you act, react, all that kind of stuff. Realize now moving onto it a little different concept. Uh, we talk about this characterization of type A, yeah, I’m a type A so I get to the gym in the morning and then I have a really busy job and I’m also the volunteer on the soccer team and I drive the carpool and I doing this and doing that and I watch a bunch of shows at night too and I’m just trying to bite off as much of life as I can chew because life is short. You might as well make it work, right? Guess what? Do you know what type A where that term came from? Type A is a term for a heart attack risk category. That is the high risk category for heart attack. That is the origination or the medical use of the term type A, would you like to be in the highest risk category for heart attack?

Brad: 09:00 I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s why you’re getting your butt to the gym in the morning and trying to live a healthy life and shop at the right stores and uh, read all the blogging and listening to the podcasting. But when you take on too much and when you go, go, go without proper respect for recovery and stress, rest balance, you fall into the type \A characterization. I don’t think it’s a surprise to know of all the healthy fit people that have dropped dead of heart attacks or less dramatic have come to demise in terms of their health, even their emotional health from trying to live this perfect high performing, highly productive modern life. So slow down, relax, take a deep breath, take a cold plunge. Sound familiar from the show intro? Yes it does.

Brad: 09:47 But we have to always balance this desire, this quest for peak performance with downtime and optimal stress. Rest balance. Of course that starts with sleep and healthy foods. But it also goes to the area of mindset, especially important today. Why? Because downtime is missing. Remember in the old days we had built in downtime. The morning paper came on the porch, you read it, and then you were done reading for the day. There was no clickbait. There was no nonstop stream of further and further, deeper and deeper articles about who’s going to get traded in the off season in the NBA or what’s going on, the latest happenings in the college admission, bribery scandal. We can go into these rabbit holes and get more information than we’ve ever obtained in our entire lives, but it can fry our brains. Literally go back and listen to my show with Dr Elisha Goldstein, mindfulness expert about the urgent importance of being able to disengage from technology at the right times and discipline your use with technology at all times.

Brad: 10:52 Downtime is missing in modern life and it’s destroying our health. So here we are in part two of the show. Yes. Get the mechanics down the foundation, but now it’s time to look deeper, develop emotional control, emotional self stability, get out of that type A category. Type B sounds pretty good to me. What about you? Try it out. Try It on for size. Once in a while.

Brad: 11:14 You know what else tech addiction is crowding out is that live interpersonal, social connection, socializing time, which has long been a fundamental element of human health and indeed in today’s longevity pockets, the great study called the Blue Zones, uh, the identify these intensely strong social networks and social support systems that are common amongst all the longevity pockets, uh, in the superstar island of Okinawa, uh, long, famed for their longevity. There’s hundreds of centenarians on this one island in Japan, and they have this concept of socializing and social connection as a centerpiece of culture. And the term is called iIkigai So you’re working your Ikigai when you get strong social networks going, you make those efforts to connect and socialize, interact in a live manner rather than a digital manner. The digital manner is certainly a nowhere near as valuable or as nurturing to our deep down a craving for connection with a fellow humans.

Brad: 12:23 So turn that shit off. I had a great show with Seth Godin, uh, the efficiency expert marketing expert and got into a little Q and A at the end where I said, Seth, you know, I’m, I’m trying myself, I’m struggling, I’m trying to write books and focus, but I continually get drawn to my email inbox or you’re reading and researching some articles on the Internet and you read more and more and pretty soon you’re not writing, you’re reading. And uh, what, what should I do about this Mr. Peak performance expert? And he said, turn that shit off, man. He didn’t say shit, but I did because it was such a clean and simple and plain answer. No handholding, no sympathizing it. Just disengage. And remember the powerful pull and the habit forming nature of tech addiction. The dopamine boost that we get every time our text message dings, every time we read and click onto another article or click onto the next show in the queue, we’re getting this short term gratification, but it’s causing fatigue and longterm overstress patterns in life. So getting that discipline and putting in some mindfulness to your daily routine where you realize that you’re going to go in and watch three shows from the hours of nine to 10:00 PM and then you’re going to get up and walk the dog and take a warm bath and get into bed by 10 45 and have these rituals in place so that they become habit rather than letting tech addiction swarm over your life and take over your behavior patterns.

Brad: 13:56 Sound Weird? No, it’s not where it’s happening every single day to every single one of us, arguably, and it’s getting worse and worse. I did a show on, um, uh, tech addiction and how the crafty, brilliant creators of technology are designing APPS and websites and social media, uh, networks to get us addicted. Get us to spend more time with them so they can make more money. It’s no joke. So choose out of tech addiction, take control of your own life and onto the next concept.

Brad: 14:30 When we’re doing this lifestyle transformation, when we’re overhauling diet, implementing exercise routines, trying to get more daily movement in of all kinds, we want to have at all times a low stress approach to lifestyle transformation. It doesn’t have to be a big drama. If you find yourself complaining or dreading your morning walk with the dog or wishing that you could have more bread in your life, it’s time to get your mind right and possibly change your approach though that it is enjoyable at all times. We see this a lot in the fitness, the exercise realm where someone is with their motivation and willpower doing the best job they can. Well meaning, well intentioned, heading over to the gym and showing up in an overly stressful class setting or working with a trainer or joining a group fitness program and getting into overstress patterns and it will last for a while because your discipline, motivation and willpower will keep you humming up to a certain point. And then when you continually do things that don’t bring you joy and energy and sense of wellbeing and peace of mind, you’re going to drift away from those. There’s not amount of willpower that’s going to keep you doing things that you don’t like to do. So when it comes to diet, we want to make sure that you’re making choices that you feel are delicious, satisfying, improving your experience of eating rather than just considering everything to be pain and suffering because you don’t have your bread or your morning slurpee on the way to work anymore. That’s key that you’re enjoying the process along the way rather than just doggedly pursuing these end goals and hating it the whole time. Now, uh, things get tough, don’t they? It’s hard to just walk away from these entrenched in lifestyle patterns.

Brad: 16:28 One of the biggest challenges is that carbohydrates have addictive properties. You can learn more about this from the best selling book, Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis. There’s an agent in the modern wheat crop called Gliadin protein and it has appetite stimulating properties to the tune of making you consume an additional 300 calories per day because of the presence of wheat and bread products in your diet. Sugar, as you likely know, or can learn more from the great work of Doctor Robert Lustig, UC San Francisco, prominent author; Gary Taubes, prominent author, uh, also has addictive properties and stimulates the same opioid receptors in the brain that hard drugs do.

Brad: 17:15 So sugar is addictive and if you allow a little bit to leak in here and there you are promoting a prolonged addiction to sugar. So what we really need to do with this dietary cleanup, step number two, as we talked about in the previous show, is zero tolerance for grains, sugars, and refined vegetable oils, especially out of the gate for the first 21 days. It’s a very slippery slope backward when you allow these foods to remain or linger in here and there, maybe over the long term, you can be that person that indulges in a slice of cheesecake once a year at the birthday party or at the Christmas gathering. But generally speaking, when you di habituate from these addictive foods, you will no longer have that pleasure and enjoyment sensation that you do right now or you claimed to have a for your being loved and bread and a scoop of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. You know what they put in that stuff? Oh my gosh. Look at a label and Ben and Jerry’s and just type it up online. You can see the refined vegetable oils that go in their assortment of preservatives. They pass themselves off as these hippie Vermont guys that mixed together some peanut butter into the tub and made this great ice cream. Oh my goodness. Nasty stuff. Anyway, once you break free from these addictions, you will find that other types of food, uh, satisfy you even further because they’re nutrient dense and they hit all the areas on your taste buds. And all those great things that natural foods do. Similarly, when you’re in patterns of prolonged stillness and a sedentary dominant lifestyle, you will feel more lazy, less energized, and less motivated to get up and move. So you actually have to force yourself to JFW and little things go a long way.

Brad: 19:06 So get up and walk to the mailbox in between each show on Netflix or do 30 seconds or a minute of plank position. But the more you move, the more energy you have to continue to move. Remember what I said in the first show that prolonged periods of stillness, the body is not used to this. Our hard wiring does not expect us to sit around for hours on end. What happens is we become worse at burning fat. That’s our steady energy supply. At rest, we have less oxygen and blood circulation in the brain and we start to experience fatigue, which prompts sugar cravings or cravings for quick energy, carbohydrate of any forms, so sitting equals, sugar cravings equals fat storage, equals continued sedentary lazy patterns.

Brad: 19:53 Gary Taubs has an epic quote in his book, why we get fat where he says gluttony and sloth or not the causes of obesity. They are symptoms of obesity. Get it. He Ha. So if you eat a lot of carbs, produce a lot of insulin, it will make you tired. The insulin removes energy from your bloodstream and puts it into storage. You have a lot of stored energy that would be your body fat, but you don’t have energy circulating in your blood because the insulin has removed it. When you don’t have energy circulating in your blood, you don’t feel like getting up and walking to the mailbox, let alone doing a 30 minute walk or doing an ambitious workout. It’s because of your high carbohydrate, high insulin producing diet. So with all this energy locked away in storage, but your blood stream and diminished energy supply, what happens? You crave energy in the form of quick energy Carbohydrates. So gluttony and sloth are symptoms of obesity. You overeat, you eat throughout the day. You can’t even miss a single meal because you’ll get a drop in blood sugar and you’ll feel tired, cranky. And as soon as you go get an energy bar or a caffeinated high sugar drink, you’ll feel a burst of energy, then you’ll crash again. So you’ll have this gluttony aspect of eating too much, even though you have a lot of excess fat that you could use this energy if you minimize your insulin production. That’s a bad cycle that we want to pull out of. But understanding the difficulty and appreciating that it’s not because you’re lazy, it’s because of your hormone imbalances that’s making you lazy. And you can correct those from dietary transformation and perhaps with a little bit of forced effort getting yourself up and moving. And as soon as you walk for five, 10, or 20 minutes, you experienced an increase in energy and you build on this over time. Okay? Okay?

Brad: 21:51 So if we want to make some breakthroughs to the next level, especially in diet, after we ditch grains, sugars, and refined vegetable oils, you can hone your fat adaptation by trying out some time restricted feeding is the hot term and intermittent fasting. So in other words, uh, getting your body even better at burning fat by skipping meals as is possible and always comfortable. So we don’t want you going hungry and walking around starving in the name of making it till 12 noon because that’s your practice. We want everything to feel natural and comfortable and you’re able to maintain peak cognitive function and energy without food. So you can start after you clean up your diet and get some momentum going. You can start by delaying your morning meal until you experience true symptoms of hunger. So if you can compress your eating into let’s say, a window of time from 12:00 PM to 6:00 PM or 12:00 PM to 8:00 PM, that is a great way to turbo charge of fat metabolism, uh, succeed with reducing excess body fat and also obtain a whole host of hormonal, cellular and metabolic benefits.

Brad: 23:05 We have the most health benefits when we are in a fasted state. That’s when our immune system works better, our metabolic function is better. Uh, we engage these processes like autophagy, which is the natural internal cellular de- toxification process, cleaning up junky damage, dysfunctional cells. And recycling them or eliminating them. Uh, protecting yourself from cancer and other diseases of inflammation related, uh, controls inflammation helps with cognitive function when you’re able to eat in a compressed time window or engage in intermittent fasting. So that’s kind of the next level of diet. And of course, uh, considering further restriction in dietary carbohydrates so that you can get into a ketogenic state would be the highest level of sophistication. Uh, once you build a lot of momentum in ancestral eating patterns.

Brad: 23:54 Exercise, we kind of talked about the progression from basic movement into the, uh, primal exercise habits of Cardio, Strength, Training and sprinting and relationships. We teed that up a little bit with the John Gray insights, but it’s important to be open, honest, authentic and vulnerable in all communications. When you stuff things, that is the essence of cellular damage, accelerated aging, psychological stress, bad news. Now, where’s the balance point from being open, honest, authentic, vulnerable, but not unloading every single thought and emotion and complaint into the planet Earth or into your partner’s ears or whoever you’re around, your family, your kids, people that you take your frustrations out on. As we talked about at the outset, emotional control, emotional self stability. Number one, attributes for psychological health and relationships. Success. So we have to find that perfect balance. Here’s some rules and tips. There’s so much content to from the John Gray shows from the Wendy Walsh shows and from the and more shows. I love this insight from me. More show number one where one of her guiding rules to live by is don’t sweat the small stuff, right?

Brad: 25:10 You can be open, honest, authentic and vulnerable and communication and say, I hate when you put the Q tips, uh, on that side of the sink because the water splashes on or don’t sweat the small stuff and like Carry Sisson said with that profound life advice, relationship, advice, insight that she shared with me. Uh, it bugs the heck out of her when her husband leaves the strawberry tops in the sink and she complained about it, it stressed her out. And then after a few times she said, well, this means a lot to me, but it might not mean a lot to him. He might be busy doing other things like being a great husband and, uh, doing his work and his contribution to the planet. So why don’t I just do it myself instead of keeping score and feeling angry and resentful while doing it yourself or being passive aggressive, do something that contributes to the wellbeing of your family, your community, your partnership, and don’t complain about it and don’t sweat the small stuff.

Brad: 26:10 John Gottman with that profound advice that a relationship, a partnership is either a team or not a team at all times in every interaction. And that his research can, the Gottman Institute, he, his wife, Julie, can tell with great accuracy, 96% accuracy, what direction a conversation will head from the tone of the conversation at the outset. So we have to be very careful with our choice of words. Are comportment, our disposition in a partnership, open your heart, come from a loving place. If you want to talk about the strawberry peels, a couch that in a dialogue that contains at least five to one positive to negative comments when you’re discussing something with a partner that’s again from Gottman research, they observed that long term happy couples that sustain a romantic spark and closeness for years and decades. These are couples that have gone an average of 24 years and still report being in love and everything’s great. They have a ratio of 20 to one positive to negative comments in normal everyday life. And in times of conflict when there’s something going down, they got to talk about it.

Brad: 27:27 They still preserve a ratio of five to one positive comments to negative comments. Uh, going further with some insights from Harville Hendrix, I believe, these are his three rules for a healthy, successful relationship communication. Uh, first of all, safety. So it’s a safe place to talk to your partner about whatever they’re going to be open and listen, no matter what, there is a zero negativity policy. So anything you do have to say, we can refrain from criticism or complaining tone of voice and just put it out there, uh, with level emotional control, but put the issues out on the table. Don’t have to swallow them, but a zero negativity policy. And finally, kind of like the Gottman five to one or the 20 to one ratio, constant affirmations to your partner so that that safety is sustained at all times. And you can talk about whatever. Mya Moore does a great job at this. It’s no problem to talk about anything. And we easily transitioned from some lighthearted banter about nothing to a very serious matter where there might be a difference of opinion. And then back into lighthearted banter. You don’t even know what hit you, but you do know that you’ve got issues out onto the table and there was no drama and negativity and stress because these rules are in place.

Brad: 28:40 Safety, zero negativity, constant affirmations, five to one or 20 to one ratios. You know, it district Perel says about this, treat your partner like you would a great client. Can you at least do that? Oh my gosh, we kiss ass on our clients, our customers, whoever they are. Oh sorry. I’ll get right back to you. Thank you so much. All that stuff, which is a little bit of an act, right? Cause it’s a business situation. It’s not an intimate relationship, but if you can use those same skills and apply those same guidelines to your intimate partnership, boy, you will achieve some great success. Take nothing for granted. Do you take your top clients for granted or do you call them? Check in on them. Nurture the relationship constantly. Don’t take things for granted with your partnership either listened to the relationship advice tidbits, show and get your a game going with relationships. Why so much time on this when we’re talking about basic life changing advice, because it’s a huge, huge component of happiness and especially longevity.

Brad: 29:42 We spend a lot of time in this area, in the book Keto Longevity after talking about diet till we blue in the face and hit every nook and cranny about how you should best eat to promote health. But what if you’re having a dysfunctional anger-laced reactive conversation at the dinner table? I don’t care what you ate, it ain’t gonna be no good for your longterm health. Okay, so get your relationship game going. And boy, if there’s some issues in this area, address them head on right now. Life is too short to wait or to let things linger and let’s smoke smolder. Smokey the bear says, so to put out forest fires before they become a huge fire.

Brad: 30:24 And then finally we get into that stress management category. I loved my show with Dave Rossi. Hey, Dave’s just getting started in his game. He doesn’t have a huge following, but it was one of the most downloaded shows ever on the Get Over Yourself podcast. This guy brought some amazing insights to the table. He talked about fear and anxiety and anytime you experience fear and anxiety, redirect your mindset, redirect your thoughts over to values and vision. It was a fantastic takeaway that you won’t forget. It’s short. It’s simple. Fear and anxiety come up for us all the time frequently. But you can always challenge that, grasp, hold of it, and turn the corner into values and vision. Acknowledge, accept, forgive yourself, redirect your thoughts. If you’re worried about getting your kid into the right college, go back to values and vision. Don’t bribe any college admissions experts to get your kid into something that’s not naturally meant to be or not naturally meant to happen. Will you be going to jail, Lori Loughlin? And especially when you plead not guilty, instead of accept a plea and say sorry, like the other lady, Felicity Huffman, good for her.

Brad: 31:34 I mean, stupid idea, a disgrace overall to kind of, uh, use your financial advantages to, uh, get an unfair advantage over other kids. But at least you apologize and said you’re, uh, you know, getting to live with this the rest of your life. Going to try to change, be a better person, but the people that get caught and then denied denied. Boy, that one’s tough. Who else am I thinking about? Oh yeah. The golfer Matt Kuchar who stiffed his caddy and Mexico paid him pittance. Uh, after winning a tournament and winning one point $3 million, he got called out for it and defended himself by claiming that, uh, the caddies down there and make 20 bucks a day. So paying him $5,000 was extremely generous, but typically caddies get 10% of the purse when their man wins. And so that would have been 130 grand wouldn’t it?

Brad: 32:20 So, Matt Kuchar character. But you know, what’s good about all this mess and this, uh, destruction of the fabric of society and the disgraceful behavior by, uh, leaders and celebrities. It’s going to make the world a better place when it’s all said. And because we’re awakening to these issues and problems and, uh, moral challenges in society, especially the college bribery scandal. I’m so happy to see a three legislators in the state of California, a floating a bill to the assembly to put more regulation onto these college admissions consultants. Uh, perhaps do a way or minimize the importance of the standardized tests because those have long been known to be culturally biased and also trying to do away with the, uh, legacy admissions whereby, uh, these elite institutions let in a massive percentage of children of alumni compared to the general applicant population and then don’t pay taxes on their endowment.

Brad: 33:21 That’s a little bit iffy there. Oh my gosh. How’s that for an aside? Do you hate it? Let me know. I’ll keep it tight next time. Get over yourself podcast@gmail.com. I think that’s a really good wrap up to get into some of these broader life circumstances and things that can destroy our health when they eat away at us. Uh, managing stress expertly, starting with the basics that we talked about and show one diet, exercise, sleep, but taking it to the next level and getting your relationships going. How about self care rituals? My final note here is to take care of yourself. Mia Moore does a great job hitting over to these regularly standing appointments with hair, nails, beauty, going to the salon, chitchatting, visiting. Sometimes they’ll open a glass of wine and have a social experience as well as that self care ritual and, but these kinds of things, when they’re built into your lifestyle, uh, have a great impact on your health and they’re very important.

Brad: 34:20 They’re so easy to skip and were easily a drifting into the martyr role these days. When we activate that type a tendency and go, go, go until we collapse. I see this on the breadwinner side frequently where the boss person of the family, just a, is a economic machine but doesn’t really get to partake in the, uh, the intimate family rituals that what family’s all about and the priorities are all about cause they’re too busy travelling or a crashed out watching TV because they have no energy to toss the ball around with their kids. So thank you. Uh, dads and moms of the world out there who know how to slow down, tone down that type A tendency and spend quality time with your kids, not pushing them and challenging them to get better grades or increase their test scores to get into some elite college. But just spending some time drawn pictures of dogs, man or a building, something in the backyard.

Brad: 35:13 Okay. So getting your overall lifestyle in place. Self care rituals. Uh, shout out to my other peeps, Dave Kobrine and listened to that show and his beautifully elaborate morning ritual, which does take a long time, but he puts into place this fabulous start to the day, every single day where he’s getting energized, he’s getting fit and he’s getting his mind right for a day of peak performance at work and a healthy live lifestyle. Robbie Benun and devoted listener, lifelong friend, he jumps into the swimming pool and swims in place for 15 minutes every morning with a tether no matter what year round. So he’s in that 54 degree water for, I think it was 12 minutes he lasted in there. But what a great morning experience to have that hormetic stressor of cold exposure, get a fitness response. Steve Dietch and Steve Kobrine and my high school running buddies are still out there hitting the roads in their 50s putting in work, spending time in nature, keeping that mile time respectable like we listened to in the first show.

Brad: 36:17 I’m sure they could destroy that magical eight minute barrier. Better be able to, Huh. Anyway, you’re going to tell me you don’t have time to do these important things like nurture a healthy partnership and engage in five to one rituals. You don’t have time to spend a little extra effort making nutritious meals. I contend that everybody has time because we’re all tech addicted and we put in so many hours. Seth Godin said, here’s what I do. Uh, I disengaged from Facebook and I don’t watch TV. There go an additional, I think you said six hours a day, probably quoting some averages, so that’s pretty gnarly. If you can just get away from those superficial, digital connection, social media, and engage in your community and in yourself, your self care, things will turn around for you and you’ll build some healthy habits. So there’s the one, two punch, basic life changing advice from show number one and show number two we got into relationships, quick summary, emotional control, emotional self stability, being open, honest, authentic and vulnerable in communications but not sweating the small stuff at the same time.

Brad: 37:26 Keeping these rules in place for a healthy partnership. Safety, zero negativity and constant affirmations. How about that for parent child, would that fit as well? Of course it would. Yes. Healthy Safety Interactions, treating your partner like a good client, managing your thoughts when you experience fear and anxiety, redirect them toward values and vision. Carry Sisson in her spiritual psychology background saying that the thoughts, your thoughts, not what happened to you, but your thoughts are the source of all your pain and that you always have control over your thoughts. Engaging in self care rituals and there you go. You’re all set. I know you have the time, so get out there and do it baby steps first. Make a big difference over time. Thanks for listening.

New Speaker: 38:19 Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback. It’s getoveryourself.podcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a, you have to go to desktop iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars and it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.

(Breather) Dr. Art DeVany, ancestral health forefather and author of The New Evolution Diet, delivers some of the most profound life advice I’ve ever heard during a 2017 podcast interview on the Align podcast with Aaron Alexander.

At 81, DeVany is retired from his professor career and is pretty minimal on the interview/podcast/lecture scene, so please listen to the whole podcast and reflect carefully on the following commentary that came at the end of the show.  

Of course, you have to work at whatever you’re doing, you have to have high standards for your work. But you also have to realize that there’s a lot of stuff that you make too big of a fuss over. And when you stop that – it doesn’t mean you don’t care – but when you stop beating yourself or beating someone else up over it when you stop ruminating about it, you’re free.  

And you gotta set yourself free – set yourself free from your old mistakes and things that happened to you. And even set yourself free from people, thoughts, foods, and habits that bring you down. That’s when you’re free! Then you can start anew. You can renew every day. Granted, you can’t forget the past. Then you wouldn’t have any memories. Appreciating your history as strength and wisdom gained and getting a move on is necessary for good health.  

Realize that beyond his health interests, DeVany was an economics professor specializing in the complex aspects of how to predict how Hollywood movies make money. In that context, he often emphasizes the importance of random, explosive, life-changing events that apply not just to the economic realm, but in all areas of life. This will help you process a vital comment about “…it’s not the drip, drip, drip.” Can you reference explosive random events that altered your life path more so than plugging away day after day on a linear way? Pay attention to opportunities of all kinds and don’t be afraid to go for it!   

Here is one of his choice quotes, from his professional realm as an economics professor:  

“In any organization, half the work is done by the square root of the total number of workers. E.g., 100 workers, half the work is done by 10 workers.”  

Here are DeVany’s recommendations to deal with depression: “Starve and exercise. The starvation part of it is to eat up some of these dysfunctional synapses. My saying is, for every damaged molecule, there’s a damaged thought. Those are injured neurons inside the brain, and you just need to get rid of the dysfunctional molecules that are causing those neurons to malfunction. Then, heal the brain with neurotrophic factors. Be outside. New thoughts, new patterns of behavior. When my first wife was declining from a host of other things, I’d take her walking as much as I could. I would tell her bad jokes. Change her surroundings. The typical things people have to do. Being outside is enormously effective. There are stimuli you can’t even relate to, but you perceive them. Your unconscious brain is what’s going to heal you first.”  

I’m taking the starve and exercise thing to heart with an intuitive approach to keto. Some days I will wait till I’m hungry to finally eat at between 12 and 2 pm. I’ll do 10-15 min workouts, walking by deadlift bar. He has said ‘don’t jog it’s too dangerous’ and that one I have really begun reflecting upon. In November through January, I was playing too much speedgolf. I had classic burnout symptoms and can’t keep below 130! Now I play cart speedgolf for wind sprints. At over 50, it’s easy to become unhealthy with endurance training. Be sure that you are performing aerobically and that your metabolism has minimal stress. Pursue a shorter, more intense competition to avoid chronic overstimulation of stress hormones.  

Download Episode MP3

Brad: 00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit, and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 01:24 With the show. Of course you have to work at whatever you’re doing. You have to have high standards for your work, but you also have to realize that there was a lot of stuff that you can make too big of a fuss over and when you stopped that, it doesn’t mean you don’t care, but when you stop beating yourself or beating someone else over it, when you stop ruminating about it, you’re free and you’ve got to set yourself free. There’s stimuli that you can’t even relate to that you perceive them and lots of studies showed it being around large bodies of water have a calming effect on the central nervous system.

Brad: 02:08 If you have a workplace with a hundred worker, half of the work is done by 10 workers. This is mind blowing. I’m not a participant in the bureaucratic work place, so I have no a good reference point here. I floated this to a few people that I know that work in large organizations and they were like, oh yeah, absolutely. I barely got the sentence out of my mouth and they’re like, for sure. For sure. That’s true. Oh, that’s brutal, man. Get off. You’re dead ass if you’re not. One of those 10 people and join the join the fun. These people are probably living in the most healthy, vibrant life of uh, all the people in the, in the a hundred person workplace.

Brad: 03:47 Welcome to the breather show insights inspired by Doctor Art DeVany, one of the true forefathers of the ancestral health movement. Good friend of Mark Sisson’s going way back and oh my gosh, he started blogging 2005 2006 and was a great inspiration, uh, to Mark and others, uh, at the initiation of the Primal Paleo movement with his insights about patterning our diet and especially our exercise patterns after our ancestors. So the guy is retired now. He’s what, 82 years old and not so much in the public eye, not crank in the podcast circuit or the Paleo lecture circuit, but he has delivered some of the most profound life advice I’ve ever heard.

Brad: 05:01 If you go back and dig into his old podcasts, he has a book called The New Evolution Diet, uh, that came out several years ago and now he’s on Facebook is where he does his public communication, but he used to have a wonderful blog. I think he had to pay to sub subscribe to it and it was well worth it talking about these intuitive, simple ancestral based insights that form the foundation for this fabulous movement. Uh, we did hear him recently on a 2017 podcast interview on the aligned podcast with Aaron Alexander. That was a great show. So go look that one up. I also found one from over 10 years ago, uh, where he was talking about both economic theory as he is a retired professor of economics specializing in Hollywood economics. So he wrote a book a long time ago, uh, about, uh, how to determine if a Hollywood movie will make money or not. And I think some of is a takeaway. Insights were that the marketplace is very chaotic. A lot of it happens by word of mouth and it’s quite unpredictable. So good luck Hollywood. Keep focusing on quality.

Brad: 06:12 Like Jerry Seinfeld says, work on your act and quit trying to turn it into a metrics with, uh, analytics instead of keeping it as an art. All right. So, uh, yeah, go look for him on the aligned podcast. And I’m going to give you some great tidbits and insights. I’ve been doing a lot of research on the subject of longevity, uh, as Mark Sisson and I are working on a grand comprehensive project for a new book and it’s become sort of a hot topic these days. I know there’s some other folks, uh, working on, uh, longevity books and projects. I guess we’ve already been told enough about the mechanics of what to do, what to eat, how to exercise, how to sleep.

Brad: 06:54 And so now we want to turn our attention to uh, optimizing. Uh, what is coined the term coined is health span rather than just lifespan. Right now we’re doing pretty good extending lifespan through pharmaceutical and keeping these poor folks and lives on machines and a drug regimens where they’re barely functional but they can squeeze out a five more, 10 more years than they might have decades ago. And so we can proudly tout these, uh, heightened life expectancies in modern times. Uh, but again, just recently, some very disturbing news in the past few years is that today’s younger generations, like my children have a lower life expectancy than I do for the first time in the history of humanity. Very disturbing. Anyone who’s a parent, you want to reflect on that? Man, that’s a disaster. Especially because we have all this technological advancement and exchange of information over the Internet where we’re dialed in, we know exactly what to do to how to live a long, healthy, happy life.

Brad: 07:58 But we’re just don’t seem to be doing a great job of, for example, disengaging from technology or staying away from crappy food. Because it’s stuck in our face. The temptations are everywhere. The commercials, the billboards, the social acceptance of eating processed food. Yeah, little disturbing. Anyway, so back to Art DeVainy. Um, here’s a nice quote. He’s just talking about going for it in life and he says most things don’t matter that much. But when you see an opportunity for a mentor, a business partner, a life partner, you have to go for it. These are the moments, these are the things that will change your life. It’s not the incremental, not the steady drip, drip, drip. Very interesting. Think back into your own life and consider those times where you had life changing events or circumstances. Many times it did not come in that drip, drip, drip fashion.

Brad: 08:58 And this is an insight that’s a borrowing from his, uh, economics background where we had these chaotic explosive events both in the marketplace where you have a, a brand that took off Lulu Lemon. You have to get their clothes. They’re awesome. They’re incredible. Uh, where they here five, seven, 10 years ago. No. But Reebok was and a whole bunch of other people that have just dripped along, but haven’t seen that explosive growth to go from zero to 60 in two seconds. Yeah. Not The steady drip, drip, drip, maybe the drip, drip, drip is overrated because we always talk about keep plugging away and insights like that. Uh, I just listened to a fantastic book that’s actually a little bit old, a Seth Godin’s book called The Dip and he’s talking about the importance of quitting shit that doesn’t feel aligned with the highest expression of your talents or is just not the right direction for you.

Brad: 09:54 So get good at quitting early and quitting often. And in return you get to focus on becoming what Goden says. Try to focus on being the best in the world at something. And in this context, world means your own personal world. So trying to be the top student in your class, uh, the best plumber in town on Yelp, whatever the context is, the greatest rewards come from people who make it through intense competitive circumstances. That’s what he calls The Dip and then emerge because they’re called by the highest expression of their talents and their passions to pursue this goal no matter what. And where do we see the most dramatic example of the payoff? Is in, uh, let’s say the entertainment arts, uh, athletics, uh, entertainers where they’re making millions and zillions of dollars because they’re the very best and if made it through this dip and they were just compelled to continue going, going, going, and then have these explosive events such as getting drafted by, uh, the professional leagues or getting a hit song after you’ve been plugging away for five, 10 years, whatever. Okay? So that’s a great lesson for all of us. Go for it. When those moments come up in life, when you have that intuitive sense that it’s time to take action.

Brad: 11:17 Dang. I gotta admit, recently I went for it proposing to Mia Moore one of our favorite podcasts. Yes. And, uh, I was inspired by my interview with John Gray. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, America’s all time bestselling relationship author. We had a wonderful show, a great interview. Uh, looking on the video at Skype and, uh, the guy was going off with this rapid fire insights and, uh, then he paused and broke down a bit because he was reflecting on the tragic loss of his wife a year ago. He was married for many, many years. His wife was a featured element of his books and his educational material, constant reference, wonderful partnership, and as pretty heavy man.

Brad: 12:00 And then he’s going on in his show describing all the attributes of an optimal relationship partner and a winning partnership. And I keep thinking he’s describing Mia Moore in every way. So what am I waiting for, man? Why the drip drip drip? Why are you going to extend it out? And so on the spur of a moment, hey man, time to propose. It’s as good a day as any other one. So there we were at baggage claim at Burbank airport going forward it in life, getting the big payoff. Okay. Back to Art DeVany. Oh, I actually, uh, uh, a butched his quoter, cut in on his quote. So he talks about, uh, those are the things that change your life, not the incremental drip, drip, drip, continuing the quote. Of course you have to work at whatever you’re doing. You have to have high standards for your work, but you also have to realize that there’s a lot of stuff that you can make too big of a fuss over.

Brad: 12:53 And when you stop that, it doesn’t mean you don’t care. But when you stop beating yourself or beating someone else up over it, when you stop ruminating about it, you’re free. And you’ve got to set yourself free. Set yourself free from your old mistakes and things that happened to you. Even set yourself free from people, thoughts, foods, and habits that bring you down. That’s when you’re free. That’s when you can start a new, you can renew every day. Granted, you can’t forget the past, then you wouldn’t have any memories, but you have this potential to renew every day end quote, oh, okay. Uh, I told you he was an economics professor specializing in the complex aspects of how you can make money with Hollywood movies and emphasizing the random explosive life changing events that apply in all areas of life. So what about setting yourself free right now? With whatever stuff is bringing you down, if it’s a crappy job or a toxic relationship or maybe some dietary habits that you’ve been talking about changing for the last six months, 12 months, 18 months, go for it. Take explosive action. Try something new. Try something different. Say, WTF and move along.

Brad: 14:17 Here’s another choice, quote, quote, and it’s kind of relating to this explosive event concept. He says, and they think this is an insight that’s a, a, a law or a principal probably has a name I forgot, but he, uh, DeVany relates that in any organization, any big bureaucratic organization, half the work is done by the square root of the total number of workers. So if you have a workplace with a hundred workers, half of the work is done by 10 workers. This is mind blowing. I’m not a participant in the bureaucratic workplace, so I have no a good reference point here. I floated this to a few people that I know that work in large organizations and they’re like, oh yeah, absolutely. I barely got the sentence out of my mouth. And they’re like, for sure. For sure. That’s true. Oh, that’s brutal, man. Get off. You’re dead ass if you’re not one of those 10 people and join the join the fun. These people were probably living in the most healthy, vibrant lives of, uh, all the people in the, in the a hundred person workplace. I don’t know, maybe some of them like, uh, what was the great movie Office Space where those guys were angling it very well. So they were, uh, you know, partying and relaxing at work and doing other fun stuff with their lives, but just making it through, surviving, making themselves look good. I don’t know, man. I’d rather be one of those hard workers getting stuff done, having the day go by quickly.

Brad: 15:37 Okay. Uh, I mentioned this on another show worth repeating our [inaudible] recommendation to deal with depression. A question was posed to him accordingly and he said, boom, starve and exercise. Continuing quote, the starvation part of it is to eat up some of those dysfunctional synapses, right? Because we know the insights about autophagy, how autophagy is optimized. That’s the natural cellular detoxification process that occurs when you starve yourselves of their usual steady stream of energy. So the starvation part of it is to eat up some of those dysfunctional synapsis, cleaning up damaged cellular material through fasting, and then back to DeVany’s quote. My saying is for every damaged molecule there’s a damaged thought. Those are the injured neurons inside the brain and you just need to get rid of the dysfunctional molecules that are causing those neurons to malfunction. Then heal the brain with neuro trophic factors.

Brad: 16:47 That’s like environmental stimulus, things like exercise. He says, quote, be outside. Think new thoughts, empowering new thoughts, engage in new patterns of behavior. When my first wife was declining from a host of other things, I’d take her walking as much as I could. I would tell her bad jokes, change her surroundings. The typical things people have to do. Being outside is enormously effective. Remember, this is one of the leading ancestral health experts ever on the planet. There are stimuli that you can’t even relate to, but you perceive them. And lots of studies show that being around large bodies of water have a calming effect on the central nervous system. This is me talking now jumping into his quote, there’s also a concept in Japan called forest bathing where they actually give medical examinations inside a park with lush foliage and they see people with lower stress hormone values in lower blood pressure because there amidst nature, we don’t even know the exact mechanisms on which these, uh, insights occur or these phenomenons occur.

Brad: 17:59 But when we’re around large bodies of water, it has a calming effect on the central nervous system. One, uh, speculation is that there’s a lack of intense stimulus, right? You’re gazing out into the ocean so your brain relaxes as opposed to when you’re on seventh avenue and 54th street and you’re trying to find time square in New York City and there’s noise pollution, light pollution, especially at night, man Times Squares. Cool, but give me like five minutes there and then, uh, take me away quickly so that don’t get blasted with all that light and the dark. Very disruptive and disturbing. No offense, Times Square back to the debate. Any quote. Uh, so he, he’s talking about his first wife who was declining, taking her outside, telling her jokes, given her different stimulation. Uh, being outside is enormously effective. They’re stimuli you can’t even relate to, but you perceive them.

Brad: 18:52 Your unconscious brain is what’s going to heal you first. You can also find our veiny talking to Tim Ferriss, Tim Ferriss show. Uh, personally, when you think about starve and exercise, I’m taking that to heart with my intuitive approach to Keto. So some days I am engaged in a starvation mode. I’ll wait until I experienced true sensations of hunger until my stomach starts growling, which is the activation of the prominent hunger hormone, Ghrelin. And they’ll go until 12. One, two, sometimes three 45. Before I have any food. Maybe I’ve done some moderate exercise, uh, not necessarily like intense sprinting and then fasting that long. But maybe I’ve done no exercise and I’m just having a day of starvation. And then other days, man banging some pretty good workouts, maybe not a pairing that with starvation, but getting both of those in, in an intuitive manner. Uh, another thing that DeVany does that’s really cool as these brief bursts of high intensity exercise, so he’ll do a 15 minutes a day of lifting heavy weights and sending that renewal signal. That’s his term renewal signal to his genes and cells throughout his body. Uh, saying that, hey man, I know I’m 82 but I still want to stay strong, so I’m going to go buy a some weights. I have a nice a hex bar in my backyard and I’d go and do a set here and set there throughout the day, honoring this insight of just sending those renewal signals to the cells throughout the body.

Brad: 20:26 Oh, finally, one of the great DeVany quotes don’t jog. It’s too dangerous. What the heck is he talking about there, man? And I think he’s alluding to the high risk of health disruption with chronic cardio. So maybe jogging would be better replaced by running and doing, uh, in between workouts. Because if you’re in good shape and you jog, that’s a different stimulus than someone who’s in moderate shape and goes out there and jogs.

Brad: 20:57 And I see these people on the roads all the time and on treadmills with their red faces looking like they’re suffering. And if you compare that to what the Olympic marathon runners are doing, those people are literally working harder. They’re working at a more elevated heart rate than the Olympic marathon runner who is out there floating along looking impressive if they pass by on the trail, but they’re working in a less stressful manner than the average jogger. So when DeVany says, don’t jog, it’s too dangerous. He’s talking to most people who are out there jogging and

Brad: 21:28 Oh, let me tell Ya. And uh, uh, November, December, a little bit of January, 2018, 2019, I got super excited about speed golf and simulating the tournament circumstances by going out there and playing a full round, a good tempo, running speed. And I did it too frequently and I plunged right back into the overtraining burnout symptoms that I’m so familiar with from decades ago when I was pushing my body out there on the professional triathlons circuit. Very disturbing chain of events where I saw my health declined due to my passion for what seems like a, uh, uh, a reasonable thing to do. And, and staying fit and being outdoors and doing all that great stuff, challenging myself with a competitive goal, but so easy to overdo it when you enjoy what you’re doing. Yeah. So had to tone that down in the process. Inventing a new sport called Speed Golf in a cart. Hey, yeah, for only six bucks more. I grab a cart and I’m still playing really fast cause I want to simulate tournament conditions where I’m hitting the ball quickly. So instead of these long, uh, uh, tempo runs between shots, you know, 300 yards here, just kidding. 240 yards here, 260 yards here, another hundred and 80 yards to the green. Uh, now I’m just doing wind sprints. So I’ll drive the cart up, jump out of the cart, maybe run from the path over to the shot, back to the cart, ram it up to the green, run over, putt the putt, run back to the cart. So I get a nice workout of wind sprints, nothing too long, nothing too strenuous. Play the golf course and go home and continue on with my life without suffering from this burnout effects of jogging due to it being so dangerous.

Brad: 23:14 So there’s what amounts to a wonderful plug for an ancestral inspired exercise program where you’re doing plenty of low level movement and making sure it is at the aerobic zone and not above the often referenced 180 minus your age formula. That’s Phil Maffetone formula to quantify your maximum aerobic limit. I’m 54, 180 minus 54 is one 26, right? I think so. And so I do not want to exceed that number if I’m doing a jog or doing a, uh, a fast walk or whatever it takes to get you up to that limit. You want to have your cardiovascular sessions below that so they’re not stressful and they don’t lead to a damage, dysfunction, breakdown, burnout, illness and injury. You want that renewal signal coming when you’re just walking and hiking and taking it easy and not stressing yourself and then package with that, sending that renewal signal to your genes through brief high intensity sessions that DeVany has been talking about now for what’s that? 13 years ago he’s been banging this drum. So dig up this old material on the Aligned podcast or the Tim Ferriss podcast. Get some inspiration and thanks for listening to the breather show.

Brad: 24:32 Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback. It’s getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars and it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to. Thanks for doing it.

Brad: 25:06 I want to enthusiastically recommend DNA fit, cutting edge genetic testing to deliver a personal profile that will guide your fitness and nutrition goals. So simple. You spit in a tube and mail it off and soon you get by email. This super cool infographic where it delivers all these important insights and elements of your genetic profile at a glance, how you metabolize carbs, caffeine, vitamin D, lactose, and much more. My exercise profile was mind blowing because it revealed my genetic muscular makeup to be 54% power strength and only 46% endurance. As a lifelong endurance athletes, I’ve been banging my head against the wall training in a manner that was in conflict with my jeans. Don’t wait 20 years making mistakes like I did. Find out what Diet and exercise patterns are most aligned with your genetics. At DNAfit.com. This stuff used to be super expensive. It was a few hundred dollars. Now it’s pennies. Not really, but it’s a great deal and you get 30% off. If you just put in the code, GOY 30 checkout everything at DNAfit.com.

What an honor to talk with the #1 bestselling relationship author of all time, Dr. John Gray!

This show publishes right after Valentine’s Day, 2019 in honor of learning how to be the best you can be in love relationships. John’s 1992 masterpiece, Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus: The Classic Guide To Understanding The Opposite Sex, became an immediate sensation and runaway global bestseller. It launched a Mars & Venus enterprise that is still leading the pack to this day. John’s 2017 book (and the centerpiece for this interview) is called, Beyond Mars and Venus: Relationship Skills For Today’s Complex World.  

Too young to have heard of Mars and Venus? Check this: “Now viewed as a modern classic, this phenomenal book has helped men and women realize how different they can be in their communication styles, their emotional needs, and their modes of behavior; and offers the secrets of communicating without conflicts, allowing couples to give intimacy every chance to grow.”   

Over the past 25 years, John has authored numerous sequels and ascended to the highest level of prominence as an author, speaker, therapist, and—most interestingly—scientist delivering cutting-edge insights on how innate gender differences and hormone balances affect relationships.  

John’s recent work is a real breakthrough because it breaks down relationship dynamics to the hormonal level. It also identifies ways in which we can achieve an ideal balance of testosterone, estrogen and numerous other hormones and neurotransmitters that help us become the best man or best woman we can be—especially in the midst of rapidly evolving cultural roles that make it difficult to stay in balance.   

After binging on the 10-hour audio recording and conducting this interview, I dare say the experience will be life-changing. You’ll have to listen to a future show with Mia Moore to find out what happened with us the day after the interview!   

Dr. Gray’s insights cover the stuff underneath the dysfunctional patterns that we get stuck in, the frustration and confusion of not being able to understand or connect with our partners, and the cultural prevalence for unhealthy distraction (Gray observes how males are addicted to porn and video games, and females are taking antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication in record numbers). One thing is for sure—with John Gray, you are in for a wild ride. This show is incredibly fast-moving and will compel you to read both his first book and current book very carefully if you want to thrive in loving relationships.   

At one point, John breaks down in describing the difficulty of losing his longtime spouse, Bonnie, to cancer in 2017. Soon after, he goes on an epic binge of profound insights for how men can rebuild their testosterone and feel valued and appreciated, and how women can reawaken their estrogen-dominant, nurturing selves who love to be heard and receive pleasure. This is a challenge because the free and progressive modern culture has allowed us to awaken all sides of ourselves, whereby in previous generations men played the breadwinner role and females played the caretaker role. From his basic premise, John takes us deep into the bedroom, describing how great sex can wash away lots of relationship conflict, the importance of female orgasm for both men and women, and how to have sex for 10 hours (sneak preview of a future book project!).   

John is an animated guy with a profound gift for analyzing relationship dynamics and telling you exactly how you can succeed, maintain passion and spark, become Soulmates instead of the dated concept of “Rolemates”, and escape from the frustrating patterns and repeated failures that seem to be the norm in modern culture. If you are not absolutely inspired and touched by this interview, email me for a full refund. This guy is a classic! Enjoy listening to this conversation (or watch it on YouTube!) with John Gray, Ph.D., author of Beyond Mars and Venus. Order it right now – it will transform your relationship.


What was the original Men Are From Mars, concept and how has it changed? [05:05]

The big change came about in World War II where men were gone and women found out they could do much more. [06:42] 

Of course cultures vary in the way people communicate. [08:54] 

Set good balance of your male side and your female side. [09:19] 

Video grams over stimulate the dopamine in the brain and make you more dependent on high stimulation to experience pleasure. [12:19] 

How do you know when you’re out of balance? Look at the hormones! [14:07] 

Actually, men are more emotional when they’re not confident. [16:33] 

How we relate to the world stimulates different hormones in us. [20:09] 

For men, when you do what you ‘have” to do, it increases your testosterone. [25:16] 

For a man, you have to get your testosterone to a certain amount before you can really let love in.  [29:36] 

How do you define male and female power? [33:37] 

How can one learn to have real sex instead of just releasing their energy? [35:22] 

The angriest men are the ones who are not getting laid. [45:29] 

There is toxicity on both sides.. [48:42] 

Oxytocin is generated by affection, compliments, being heard, harmony, safe feeling, and here’s the biggest safety: somebody has your back.  [51:17] 

When men grumble, it’s over soon.  When women grumble, it’s a big deal. [52:12] 

All successful men and successful people are accountable for whatever happens in their lives. [58:12] 


Beyond Mars and Venus: Relationship Skills For Today’s Complex World.   

Watch John Gray and Brad’s Conversation on YouTube

John Gray’s incredible life story 

John Gray’s Mars and Venus enterprise   


Download Episode MP3

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:02 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author, an athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 00:01:41 I’m your host. Learn more at the links on my homepage, Brad kearns.com I also have a new button called shopping with Brad for other cool stuff@bradkearns.com and here we go with the show. Hi listeners, it’s a great honor to introduce my conversation with John Gray. Author of men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and many sequels, including a wonderful recent book called Beyond Mars and Venus where he talks about the influence of hormones on relationship dynamics and absolutely fascinating read.

Brad: 00:02:14 I was so compelled to get him onto the show after getting into this book because I really feel like it’s a, a breakthrough and a transformation, uh, in our usual approach to optimizing our relationship dynamics and working through conflicts and trying to be good partners because he breaks it down to the hormonal level and Oh. Man, this guy is a firestorm of energy and inspiration and knowledge. This is a wild ride. So get ready and hopefully you’ve heard of John Gray if you’re too young to remember. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” “This book is now viewed as a modern classic, which has helped men and women realize how different they can be in their communication styles, their emotional needs, and their modes of behavior and offers the secrets of communicating without conflicts, allowing couples to give intimacy every chance to grow.”

Brad: 00:03:08 That book was out 25 years ago. Can you believe it? He’s been working hard ever since cranking out the sequels and doing his retreats and his lectures. And this new book is called Beyond Mars and Venus: Relationship Skills for Today’s Complex World. So in this show, oh man, we travel fast, but he talks about the inherent conflict between the progressive modern culture where roles are blended and men are taking maternity leave and women are kicking butt in the workplace and how we’re trying to navigate all this pretty rapid transformation of culture if you look at it on the evolutionary timeline. So we’re navigating all this progress and change and freedom and still trying to sustain and nurture these traditional romantic relationships where we have the ideal balance of male and female energies. And what’s cool about Dr. Gray is he has that straight up therapist’s approach, but he’s also a scientist and doing a lot of research and coming out with breakthrough insights about the influence of testosterone and estrogen, the predominant male and female hormones respectively and the other complimentary hormones and neurotransmitters that make us tick and make us be the best that we can be or the worst that we can be when we get out of balance and watch out, man, we’re going into some spicy territory.

Brad: 00:04:29 So this has an e on this show. He’s talking about the importance of female orgasm for both males and females and how great sex can wash away many relationship conflicts that plague you right now enjoy a fabulous show with Dr. John Gray.

Brad: 00:04:45 So I think maybe we should start with our younger listeners, maybe, maybe too young to know what, what Mars and Venus is all about. If you could give like a brief overview of, of that presentation and then we can transition into the latest book Beyond Mars and Venus where we bring in all the, the hormones and the uh, the undercurrent of how we behave and what we need.

John: 00:05:05 I think that’s a good idea. Also with the younger generation, a lot of the basic Mars, Venus ideas, we can review it quickly, but a lot of them don’t relate to it because the males have been sort of pushed over too far to their female side and the females more on their male side. So getting quickly into the new perspective is actually kind of very good. But we’ll do some review. Okay. So, you know, I wrote, Men are from Mars 25 years ago and we were in a more traditional society then and we were limited to a great extent by conditioning. Conditioning says men have to be a certain way and women have to be a certain way. And you know, we grew up in the 60s and that was sort of the freedom. Here I am growing up in a traditional Texas family and I’m wearing bell bottom pants.

John: 00:05:53 I’m growing out my hair, I’m putting on beads, I’m free you and demonstrating for peace, you know, this was like peace and love. So that was a big deal. And what that is a symbol of his men feeling the freedom to move over to a part of us that has been culturally suppressed for center center for centuries, for thousands of years, we had a role, you know, you can’t go out into battle, you can’t go on long hunting trips, uh, all that kind of stuff and be so sensitive. So we had to be toughened up for that job. So now suddenly we have this new civilization and we’re free to move over to our, our, our softer side. Now women on the other hand, they were free to move over to their independent side. A lot of that happened in World War II and we needed people to, you know, to build the tanks and do everything.

John: 00:06:42 The men were gone, the women went into the factories and they did a great, great job. And so it was like, oh, you know, mom can also do all these things dad does because when mom was busy raising kids, you didn’t know she could do all those things. You know, when I go down and down to South America to indigenous tribes, uh, you’ll see women are pregnant, either pregnant or taking care of babies their whole lives. You know, their breastfeeding, they’re getting pregnant or breastfeeding and, and they’re always nurturing and the men are, you know, are doing sort of the dangerous stuff. They’re going into the jungle and the women are doing more of the gardening and it was a partnership based upon a level of civilization we have. Today we’re free. Now what happens is when you’re free, you get really excited. You can go overboard.

John: 00:07:25 And that’s kind of what’s happened is that men go, okay, I’m just going to go over and have a lot of fun and women are like, okay, I’m going to go over and run the company. And that’s going from the female side to the male side. And it that the challenge I see over and over and over and mostly who comes to counseling is women. So what you see for women is when they come in for counseling, they’re feeling overwhelmed. High levels of stress, high levels of dissatisfaction, feeling something’s missing in their relationship, feeling neglected and why they’re feeling neglected is they’re having a whole list of needs that men have never been expected to do. And yet women assume he’ll just do those things. Uh, you know, no father was like this great romantic guy when I was growing up. My father more traditional, he just had to have a good job and have some manners and not get angry when he’s home.

John: 00:08:14 So that three requirements, that when the woman was quite satisfied with her husband. But you know, today, you know, people often naively will say, well, where, where are the romantic men of the history? They didn’t exist. You know, Romeo and Juliet is like the romantic ideal. They died before they got the day after they got married. You know, so it, it, everybody knew romance doesn’t last, but why today is it something that we want to last? Maybe we haven’t figured out I’d do it. I feel like my message helps people to do that. But why do we want it is particularly women will say, I really want it. I want, I want to be heard. Communication is important to me. And, in indigenous tribes, women don’t complain, “My husband doesn’t listen.” He doesn’t listen and she doesn’t care. She’s with a bunch of women and they’re talking and they’re connecting.

John: 00:09:04 So she’s in a different world at that time. So when she basically, in that world, she’s, she’s at a culture that’s held her into her female side and men were held into their male side. Like my father, he did his work job. My mother did the nurturing job. But once women can break out and I feel it’s like a higher level of consciousness, you know, a retrieval, greater parts of our soul which says, you know, I have a masculine side and a feminine side and I can be both. And you know, when I talked to you, even in a minute, we’re just meeting you go into the flow. So clearly when a man goes into the flow or a woman goes into the flow, a common expression, now genius expressing her inner genius, that’s the flow. That flow is when the masculine and the feminine is balanced inside of us and simple ways. It’s when you love what you’re good at, you’re in the flow. The love part of it is the female side of us, the good app. I’m competent, I’m capable, I’m achieving a goal. I’m on my mission. So when we have our mission and we’re achieving our goal, that’s our male side. And when we’re loving it and we’re happy and we’re enjoying it, that’s our female side. And so we get both together. That’s where you’re in the flow and that’s what we are. We have this potential today, a higher consciousness. It said, I can be both.

John: 00:10:20 So what happened is I broke out of my male side going to my female side. And part of that was, you know, the whole hippie revolution and opening consciousness and going higher and all that good stuff, moving over to enjoy my life more instead of sort of sacrificing my own dreams. You know, a lot of men, they just, a lot of our fathers, you know, they had their own dreams, they had their own passions, but it didn’t pay. So you gave that up and you were happy because it made the woman happy. But now we have the potential of experiencing joy and happiness in our lives and our through creativity. And women were like starting to feel suppressed and repressed as their sole was going up. It says, I want to be both. So the women were all in their support groups, how we can be empowered, you know, power. And the men were all like, okay, what can we do? They experience higher consciousness or enjoy our lives more and have more fun in our lives. So we went both different directions to find wholeness and balance. And when you’re moving, we’ll take women when they’re moving from feeling and a box out of that box over to their male side, what’s happening is in the middle, like a pendulum going back and forth.

John: 00:11:28 As that pendulum goes to very feminine side of us to the masculine side, right in the middle is this kind of like empowerment. Excitement is the flow, but then if you go too far, then you’re feeling overwhelmed. You feel stressed, you lose your ability to love the moment, to be present in the moment. So what happens then is in the pendulum needs to come back. Now how does it come back is we need to recognize we’re too far on the other side. What are the symptoms that we’re too far on? The other side dissatisfaction, that’s it. Basically for women, they feel overwhelmed. There’s too much to do. I don’t have time for myself. You see, the female side is the receptive side of us. It’s about myself bringing in it. What do I need? What’s important to me coming back. And so many women will say, I don’t have time for myself.

John: 00:12:19 You don’t hear that often from men. We’ll take the time. We were designed to take the time because basically you know, you, you, you go out, you, you’re out there, uh, solving problems all day. We come home. That was one of the ideas of, of Men are from Mars. It was so popular is that every man has a cave. If you’re from Mars, you have a cave. You want to just come back, just decompress, forget your problems, don’t worry about anything. Maybe watch a football game, maybe meditate, maybe solve problems. Basically go online. And now it’s getting into play video games. And what happens with video games, unfortunately, is they over stimulate the dopamine in the brain. And when they overstimulate dopamine in the brain, that means you’re dependent on high stimulation to experience pleasure. And dopamine is linked in with testosterone a lot. So what happens is normal life can’t produce as much dopamine as video games.

John: 00:13:15 So what happens then is that normal life doesn’t stimulate our testosterone enough? And that’s where we move into my new work with. Women are busy working all day long, making money, sacrificing to make money. They can do that, but it doesn’t stimulate female hormones. It doesn’t stimulate estrogen. It doesn’t stimulate oxytocin. It doesn’t stimulate progesterone. So these are like hormones that are highly significant for women. Testosterone is particularly the most important for men and the difference between men and women. …Cuz many, many women who have gone to their male side, they say, what do you mean men and women are different? I have all these masculine qualities. Many men will say, what do you mean? You know that female, I have all these female qualities. They don’t experience the gender difference. There’s a fluidity today and fluidity is we actually are all a unique, different, their own unique balance of masculine and feminine.

John: 00:14:07 But how do you know when you’re out of balance? And when you’re out of balance, you have to know where do I need to go to be in balance. So when women are we on their male side, they have to know how to come back to their female side. Many to know when I’m, when I’m, when I’m unhappy. Basically if you look at a man who’s depressed, his testosterone is too low. Look at a man who’s angry. His testosterone is going down and his estrogen’s going up. Now most people don’t know that, that when men are angry or afraid defensive, their female hormones are increasing and they’re male hormones are going down.

Brad: 00:14:46 No offense, females. It’s just just how it is. It’s science,

John: 00:14:50 It’s basic science. And so what, and you know a lot of guys, they kind of go, okay, I want to be strong. I want to be confident. I don’t want to fear. I want to have strength. And you associate that with, with basically testosterone. But when a man is in a situation of challenge, particularly that might threaten his self esteem, the woman he loves doesn’t love him or he’s being attacked either one, as long as he’s confident and he knows what to do. See the male side always has to solve problems. So it’s, if I’m confident and I know what to do, then I’ll be super calm, detached, and clear. Kind of like a Samurai Warrior, Kung Fu guy, you know, you see how they, they immediately do all their moves. Yeah, exactly. Just those boots and they’re calm, cool and collected. And I studied that when I was a kid. And part of how you stay calm, cool and collected is you practice every move and you have your train to see every possible approach that can happen.

John: 00:15:48 Kind of like a chess player, you know chess players, cool, calm and collected. You’re calculating cause you know what, what, what? You’re going to do three steps ahead. That’s real mastery. So when you have confidence that you can produce the result you want, then testosterone goes high and stays high and your the highest performance. But as soon as you lose confidence, you don’t know what to do, which happens a lot. And marriages and relationships, you, you know, you just feel like you went to this person, you’re so connected. Why aren’t they responding to me? Why are they saying that I’m doing the best I can? As soon as that happens, you lose confidence. Your testosterone actually turns into estrogen and you become overly emotional. This is why when you say men are not emotional, women are more emotional. Actually, men are more emotional when they’re not confident.

Speaker 2: 00:16:37 Women are more emotional. Basically, when there’s a minor stress, and this was amazing research I found, which is under moderate stress, if you measure the blood flow in the brain to the part of the brain that’s emotional under moderate stress, women’s brains will become eight times more emotional. She might have to suppress them, but she be, there’s this surge of emotion that she has to push down constantly. For men under moderate stress, there’s no surge of emotion. Men basically detach, you know, you just start thinking, you’re turn away and you think, okay, what am I going to do about this was small problems, but as soon as it’s a big problem, which means I’ve lost confidence. Men become emotional way more emotional than women. And women will start to detach. And that’s the sad truth of what happens in marriages is when women start to feel I cannot get what I need from this guy, then they start to detach and it’s very hard for her to open her heart at that point unless she understands how to open our heart.

John: 00:17:37 And that’s like my whole message, which it comes down to your hormones cause for a woman when her, when her heart is closed in the presence of someone, her estrogen levels have dramatically dropped. She says, I can’t depend on you see there’s a place and marriage and relationships and caring and in friendship where you feel I can depend on you, you have my back, you know, that sense of that and you know you have my back and when somebody has your back and then therefore your is constantly providing a level of stimulation for your female hormones, which makes a man for a man’s point of view. It’s not like we don’t want female hormones, we want female hormones. We just don’t want them to be out of balance. Everything is simply about balance. Because as I mentioned before, genius, uh, unlimited energy, health, vitality, all of these things come back down to competence and loving.

John: 00:18:31 What you do, you know, bring in are, are being a service. Part of what’s great about being a service, even though that is our purpose in this world, is when you serve someone and they respond to you. I’m talking to the men now, but when they respond to you with appreciation, what happens is that fuels the testosterone that allows you to be selfless. Testosterone is the selfless hormone. So everybody has it backwards about men. I mean, who was it that had selfless to go into battle? Who is it that’s a selfless that almost most men traditionally did a job they didn’t even like, but ironically they were happy to do it. They smiled and they didn’t complain. Why? Because they did that job. It was the only way they knew to provide for the woman they loved. And why was that such a big payoff? Because when you came home and a woman felt in her heart, I depend on you. I remember the day my wife said to me, my wife and I were married from, when was when she was alive. We are married for 33 years and tragically she died of cancer. It was just last year. So let’s take a breath, take a breath there. Um, kind of even hard for me to talk about relationships if I go there. So I’m just going to back up, ask me a question.

Brad: 00:19:47 Well, what you’re describing in this big picture is this battle between the advancement of society. Obviously we can all call this progress. When we stepped out of the indigenous hunter gatherer role where the, uh, the, the roles were so distinct and all the way up to industrial revolution and things have been that way all the way up to our grandparents’ time, like you described. And now with this explosion of, of culture and advancement of society, uh, we have underneath the surface, uh, this battle between our two hormonal nature. And you, you describe in the book how even if you’re a sensitive kind, soft male, you probably have 20 times more testosterone then the average female and vice versa. For the female. So it seems like we’re at war with the advancement of, of culture and society and our basic nature as either male or female. And you, you a reference, I think it was Norway, right? The most, the most advanced progressive country and the disturbing statistics that everything’s equal, that women have all the rights in the workplace and then the divorce rate is right up there as the highest.

John: 00:20:52 It’s amazing. And the other part of that in Norway is that it’s mandatory to have equal number of men and women and all government jobs, but non government jobs you’ll have women who have the freedom to do masculine jobs or traditional male jobs do not do them. The majority of women are still doing traditional female jobs. The majority of men are doing traditional male jobs, construction workers, drivers, you know, those kinds of engineers, those kinds of jobs. Unless it’s a government job and then it’s mandated and women can jump into that role. Also, it’s interesting, if you go to areas like India, uh, you’ll see where there’s poverty against survival. Women are way more in the male jobs. It’s not like mandated. It’s just like they can get ahead. But the problem is there’s more divorce, dissatisfaction, less women getting married. A woman cannot, uh, fall in love or stay in love if her estrogen levels are not 20 times higher than the man’s. Now typically when a woman main parts of the month, a woman’s estrogen levels will be 10 times higher than a man and that’s fine to love him, but to be in love and couples who are really happily married and have great sex, you understand that feeling of being in love and love is an experience where you feel a surrender to your partner. I’m yours and, and its attachment to it’s your mine. You know, there’s that sweetness. Often as a man, I was introduced to those feelings primarily during sex where my heart just fully open cause her heart opened. See women to a great extent, open a man’s heart. It’s hard to be fully open to someone who’s not loving you if you’re a man because the woman’s love keeps a man’s testosterone rising appreciation is the form of communication that raises testosterone. Caring when I demonstrate caring is the form of behavior that will raise estrogen.

John: 00:22:52 So when a man demonstrates caring, that’s why for romance, and he said, be so much foreplay and so forth, there needs to be dates and so forth. And that’s why women today, when you come into the counseling office, if they’re dissatisfied in their marriage, they’re saying there’s no romance. He doesn’t listen. He doesn’t care. I could be invisible. He doesn’t see me. I’m not getting compliments. Uh, he’s not considerate, he’s not helping out. He doesn’t see what I need. And basically these are things women in an indigenous tribe would never even think of, just not even think of. But why do women think of it today and why is it a necessity for them today? To a great extent is because they’re so far on their male side, those behaviors I just described stimulate huge amounts of estrogen. So if your estrogen is really low, you need those behaviors from your partner in order to raise your estrogen levels so that you can then feel your love. And if women are not feeling loved the’re not happy. If men are not feeling successful, they’re not happy, and of course every woman enjoys being successful and it’ll also is great, but it’s not a part of her need to balance her hormones. That’s the key. Success is wonderful. We all want it. Happiness and joy and love is what we all want, but primarily a man has to know how to keep my testosterone up. What behaviors, what communication style, and nobody’s done a lot of research on this yet. That’s been my focus, which is a talk about how we relate to others. How we relate to the world stimulates different hormones in us.

John: 00:24:25 When I put my needs to the side and do something for you without complaining, for example, my testosterone shoots up when a man sacrifices for a noble cause, if it’s acknowledged, if he anticipates this is going to make a difference is one of the best things for him. So a depressed man, you immediately want to get him in a situation that he doesn’t like doing. It shouldn’t be about pleasure. It shouldn’t be. I’m going to love it. It should be. I’m going to tough it out, but I’m going to get rewarded for it. Which means you get up in the morning, you know, sometimes you get, I mean I’m basically, I’m 67 years old, I don’t have to work, you know, so I could easily just go over to my female side, which is called retirement. Retirement. Just do what you like and you watch so many men die after they retired cause they’re not balancing that energy is saying, you know, I’m going to get up today and I’m gonna go do what I have to do.

John: 00:25:16 So there’s this sense in masculinity, when you do what you quote have to do, it increases your testosterone, particularly if you anticipate being successful. If you don’t anticipate being successful, it’s also, it doesn’t raise your testosterone. But for women, when I analyze women who come in and who are depressed, who are stressed, who overwhelmed, who can’t, climax, can’t have orgasm, can’t stay in love, can’t fall in love, they just can’t juice up. What’s missing is this feeling in their mind? It’s a little conversation going on. I have to do this. I have to do this, I have to do this, I have to do this. That feeling of have to that pressure. That’s one of the symptoms of being on your male side, so I have to, it’s beneficial for a man not so beneficial for a woman. If she’s out of balance, it’s fine if she’s in balance because that’s what you know life is about is the masculine and the feminine and we’re moving into an era where we get as individuals, we can find both and we can find our unique balance of both because not every man’s needs the same amount of testosterone, estrogen. Not every woman needs the same amount, but there is this polarity and when you discover you’re feeling overwhelmed or stressed or unhappy and you’re a woman, pretty much your objective is to do things, to come back to your female side and not listen to the part of yourself that says, I have to be masculine.

John: 00:26:41 You have to just say, okay, I’ve got to go back and for me, if I’m feeling low energy depressed or have any anxiety at all or I have worries anytime of the man’s in that place, he just has to get them too far on my female. Anytime we actually have negative emotions and you’re a man, you’re too far and you’re female, if your hormones are in balance, you’ll have emotions as a man and there’ll be all positive emotions. If you’re having negative emotions, one of the few minutes, I mean negative emotions come up. That means you just got the wind blew and your tipped out of balance. So you need to come back to balance and let go of those negative emotions and men can do that quietly. We’re designed to do it quietly.

Brad: 00:27:19 You want to say that was a big one when you said that a male expressing anger to his partner is damaging to the relationship and instead he should go off into his cave. And I think that’s my favorite example of getting back to balance because you feel the opposite urge is to continue down that path or down that slippery slope downward. Just like the woman coming back from a hard day at work where she’s doing her thing and feeling fulfilled and, and having the maximum expression of her talent in life and then coming home and looking at a home cleaning to do list and plunging into that, uh, that depth of more and more male out of balance. And I guess with the male expressing anger, he’s getting into a female imbalance. Right?

John: 00:28:02 Exactly. I love, that’s what my favorite points in the book. And you think of it as a pendulum. Okay, I’m over here. I’m my male. I’m constantly sort of going a little on my female, a little more male side, but then suddenly I’m out of control and I go way too far to my female side. Then I just keep going out of control. Just like if you’re on a tight rope, you now you’re just going to fall down on the other side. And so a man needs to recognize, first of all, if you want to, woman to love you. And most men don’t even know how important that is until they get maybe a little older and they realize, you know, this life is meaningless because a lot of, if I don’t have love, it’s kind of a growing up for men to recognize how important love is to support him. Because primarily because we first want to feel lovable and men feel lovable. Meaning I’m worthy of love by being good at something. Look what I can do. Look what I can do. You know? Um, I was recently on a vacation with a bunch of friends and we’d go on vacation twice a year together and we don’t care

Brad: 00:29:01 what kind of friends?

John: 00:29:03 Well we’re all authors were all bestselling authors, males or females, males and females. This is a group thing and we all have the same occupation, similar occupation. So, and we always have these competitions on one of the day, I’ve never won any of them. It’s a one won first prize. All right? I was so happy. I mean, we just, it’s like winning, winning, accomplishing achievement. It was all play, but it was really quite wonderful and even though I feel very worthy of everybody’s love and so forth, I could let him more love. It’s just the, you have to feel worthy. It’s to let it in and recognize it’s there. And so for a man, a lot of it is is you have to get your testosterone but a certain amount before you can really let love in. For Women, they don’t. A woman, basically it doesn’t. Theoretically, if you look just on the female, they don’t need to earn love. One of the hardest things for women is to let go of trying to earn love. See, that’s when you’re on your male side, you want to earn love and when you’re on your female side, you have to get, I deserve love. I am beautiful. You know, beauty is the face of God expressing itself. Women and body beauty, whether they’re perfect they don’t need to be perfect. They need to be feminine. One of the qualities of femininity is beauty and beauty is attractive and it attracts.

John: 00:30:22 She doesn’t have to go out and earn love. She needs to just recognize I am the receptive force of the universe. I tracked it in, you may not attract it from everybody. You don’t need it from everybody, but when you don’t get it, then you feel as a woman, if you’re not feeling love, you’re on your female side. You have to love from the world, helps a woman feel safe to open up to feeling worthy, to receive the love. When she receives the love, that’s when she gives love. You have to receive and then you can give. If you don’t have, you can’t give. So women, when they receive, that’s the female element, then they can give what they’ve received. The problem for women is when they don’t get love or what they need, then they feel I haven’t received, they go onto their male side and think I’ll have to earn it.

John: 00:31:12 And so again, as a therapist, what you see all the time is women giving and giving and saying, I gave too much. I gave too much. It didn’t come back and, and that’s this. That’s this. The foundation of resentment and resentment is what kills relationships is when you think you get up in the morning and you feel like, Hey, I’m not getting what I’m giving. Well stop giving so much. That’s what I tell women. Stop giving so much, but don’t withhold love. Just stop over giving. And how do you stop over giving is you start giving yourself what you need. Stop expecting men to give you everything you need. Stop expecting the world to give you everything you need because the truth is what you need is always present. You just looking in the wrong direction. And quite often what you’re looking for, what you’re missing is doing things for yourself.

John: 00:32:04 So women are constantly doing things for others, which feels good. You know, the brain gets excited for a woman when she’s giving, because in the brain it says, Oh, if you’re giving, you must have received. Because when women are in harmony with their balanced hormones, they feel motivated to give what they receive, not to give from emptiness. Giving from emptiness is, unfortunately, a free in balance. It’s an imbalance happens all the time. Well, it’s the basis of relationships that, because if a man gives from emptiness, you’ll fill up. See on your male side, I got nothing. So I’m just going to go out there and do what I don’t want to do for somebody and they’re gonna love me, I’m going to fill up. So if you give an empty out, it is whatever you got. Just give it empty. Then we fill up. We have to give and then get back.

John: 00:32:55 But women need to recede and then give back. I mean you, you feel like you know a lot of men who had all given to them, they become weak. I won’t say every man, but you got a, Rockefeller did a book or one of those guys on children of rich men, male boys of wealthy fathers often have difficulties. You know, we had a phrase a long time ago called playboys. If you are rich, you were a playboy. You didn’t have to work. You just had fun and having fun couldn’t make a commitment and you became a drug addict. He became a food addict. You got divorced. All of these problems would happen and rich to males, a rich families, not always the females because females there were

Brad: 00:33:37 Females can handle it. Paris Hilton’s group and no problems.

John: 00:33:41 Yeah, no problem. Because the femininity is not about earning it. It’s about having it come to you. Let me, let me define male and female power for a moment. This is another idea in the book. I just love it because so many women are all about empowerment and I’m going to be in power. Look whatI can do look very good. It feels really good and they feel very powerful, but that’s masculine power. Masculine power is the ability to accomplish, to achieve the organize, to put it together. Look what I can do. That’s masculine power. We all know that feeling. It’s like when I won the competition, look what I did. Look what I did. Softer, just doubled. You know?

Brad: 00:34:16 Are you going to tell us what you, what the competition was? I mean you’re, you’re a bunch of bestselling authors. I’m sure these big timers are competing at a high level. What did you do?

John: 00:34:25 Okay, I’ll get to it. I’ll get down to that. It’s a fine cause I’m so proud of myself. But what is female power? Masculine power. Look what I did. Okay, and that’s this. And that’s why women are always like, oh men are so and ego and everything cause cause we need that. That’s testosterone. Stigma is, look what I did. And testosterone doesn’t seek to control others. It seeks to serve others. It’s only low testosterone. Men, they want to control others. All that negativity of what people often associate with the negative ego is, I’m feeling so insecure about myself. I have to control you as opposed to detachment. The Buddha, you know that’s testosterone is being able, I don’t need to control anybody. I got it. You know, that’s walking around like a stud. Look what I can do, which I’m going to do a book coming up probably in a few years, called 10 Hours of Sex.

Brad: 00:35:18 Can we take a break?

John: 00:35:20 During the 10 hours?

Brad: 00:35:22 Yeah.

John: 00:35:22 It’s generally about an hour of in and out. And then you take a little break and then another hour did an out and a little break that out and try to figure out a way to help these young guys get motivated to learn about how to have real sex instead of just releasing their energy all the time. Because if you learn how to have orgasms without ejaculating, then you just want more and more sex. You never lose your desire, but you’re not frustrated about it. And this is something that’s been, you know, not taught to the masses because people couldn’t do it. But this new generation of males who have both male and female, if you balance it, then you orgasm, but you don’t ejaculate. And then you just keep, every morning you got a cucumber.

John: 00:36:00 I mean, it’s the best, but you know, I’m 67 and it’s, look, I like my God, this is so wonderful to learn these things that we’re just not taught. And what young guys don’t know is that they’re losing all their power with over and over ejaculating several times a day to porn. What’s happening is they’re losing their interest in real women. They can’t sustain interest with a real woman. They can’t get that excited with a real woman cause the the, the Internet sex, and I’m not against anything, I just looking at the brain here, which is when you have high stimulation, like cocaine feels really good. When something feels really, really good, you want it again and again. What’s happening in the brain is that you’re overstimulating the brain with dopamine. That’s pleasure. Then the brain says, oh, that’s so much pleasure. We’re gonna. We’re gonna close the little dopamine receptor sites so that now that’s not so exciting, but just, just exciting enough.

John: 00:36:57 But then normal stimulation, which is not porn, which is not digital, normal stimulation will do nothing for you. Because see, when you have sex with a real woman, you’re not just making dopamine. See a naked woman in front of you says your number one. You just won the prize and all the women are naked for you, so you’re dope. You’re dopamine shoots up really high. That raises your testosterone cause you have dopamine stimulation. What happens with, with real sex is you’re having dopamine stimulated by having a naked woman next to you, loves you. You’re the one, and you’re also producing serotonin, which is simply because you feel at ease with her. You have a history with her with the more history you have with someone which is harmonious. You’ll have serotonin, serotonin and keeps your dopamine from going too high. They counter each other. You have oxytocin, which is a whole energetic field which keeps your testosterone from going too high.

John: 00:37:52 So you’ve got these counterbalance weight. So you’re connecting with real feminine energy inside yourself rather than just pure testosterone, which happens when you’re, when you’re solo with a fantasy. And so, you know, these are all like new lessons for guys to understand and I was talking about 20 years ago, but now the guys are having the experience. I can’t get turned onto a real girl. You know, it’s just not, not happening or I can’t stay, stay interested. So guys can sometimes still be interested in women. That’s an easy kind of unconscious instinct. But once you get to know her and the oxytocin gets produced, the estrogen goes up. You don’t have enough testosterone to fight that. So you lose it and that you, you just, you’re there and then you’ve got to recoil back. Then you need somebody new and different. New and different always stimulates more dopamine so that a sustained relationship, you have to have healthy dopamine, healthy testosterone levels, and a woman has to know she wants a man to stay.

John: 00:38:48 How do you keep a man to stay? You gotta be on your female side if you’re a man is going to go look for a female because if he doesn’t feel he can contribute to your life in a meaningful way, coming home to you, he will become passive and lose interest in you. And she has to be able to communicate. I need you. And that’s what female power is. Female, male powers. Look what I can do. You need me? I got the answer. You’ve got to fire. I’m a fireman. I’m on top of the world. So that’s solving problems. Female power is not having to do it. You get, look what I can do, female towers. I’m look when I get somebody else to do for me. I don’t have to do at all. That’s female power. That’s grace. That’s,

Brad: 00:39:30 You know, John, I’m, I’m seeing like these tiny little examples in daily life that I would imagine add up to a lot of trouble over time is you’re trying to sustain the magic in a relationship and you’re describing that it, that it is possible to have that had that spark going for years and years and years. But then when you have a, a simple household encounter like, uh, there, there’s a mess left over and someone said, and you did a great job, uh, stating these examples in the book where, uh, Hey, you spilled this I’ll, clean it up. Uh, you’re, you’re messy. Uh, let’s say the, the woman’s side is talking to the man where the man would be overjoyed to jump up and not only clean up the, the small mess he left but, maybe polish the, the counter with the new solution that makes it shine. But when we have these engagements where the resentment comes out on both sides and then the, the, the walls come up. That’s what I think the, the magic of the book is that you can, you can transcend that. Just by that example you just said, where the female sits back, puts her hands behind her, behind her neck and says, hey, why don’t you do this room while you’re at it and the male actually, the male part of you. Uh, we, we can switch. Uh, we could switch genders if, if we want, but just to get back into balance and allow someone to be of service rather than trying to do it all in and be at all.

John: 00:40:51 Nicely said. And that kind of comes down to the bottom line of a female should have a wisdom of how to communicate what you need in a way that doesn’t make somebody feel like they’re being criticized.

Brad: 00:41:04 Ooh, there’s the, there’s the show quote. What I got, I shout out to my audio engineer. That was it right there. That’s beautiful. Keep going. Yep.

John: 00:41:11 That’s a new, a new wisdom. And the past culture basically told man what you’re supposed to do. So women did need to ask and when a woman picked a man, it was a man who was already doing those things that she would want and value most, which was be a good provider, don’t be angry, be present for her romance, good communication, those kinds of things. Helping out around the house. Those weren’t the requirements. You know, women at all day doing nurturing activities. Men were away the whole time. There was this balance but so they wouldn’t,

Brad: 00:41:45 It seems like in a lot of ways things were easier. Maybe they weren’t reaching level nine of fulfillment and deep connection. But uh, until we get up to the highest levels, it seems like, you know, simpler times we didn’t have the, the porn addiction in the dopamine overdose and all those things that just, we, we got to navigate some trouble here, Huh?

John: 00:42:06 Yeah. We have a lot of problems today and what you’d see is they weren’t, and previous generations relationships, they weren’t at level nine, they weren’t having ecstatic sex and ecstatic sex is, you know, it’s still, our society is quite sexually repressed. But think about it for a moment. Do you pick a partner today who’s just got a good job in harmonious? No. You pick a partner who’s turns you on, you know, in couples, get a few years of great, great sex, and that’s what pulls us together. In the past it was you, your mother would say, don’t worry whether you’re sexually attracted, that’s going to go away. That’s it. I mean, sexual attraction went away for couples. And you know, I teach in other cultures today where where they’re not as advanced as us and women don’t even know they can enjoy sex. Sex is really for women and men are serving women, but today it’s in the more. In traditional relationships, sex was something women did to serve the man. But most men today, they’ll lose interest in a woman if she doesn’t enjoy sex more than him. See his pleasure, pleasure as feminine. What sex was for men in the past was sex as a way to connect with a woman and experiencing pleasure to get to his female side. Well, we’re way on our female side, man can easily just relax and enjoy pleasure. But what we want is the woman to enjoy pleasure. And then of course we’re number one. We won the prize, or orgasm is number one for us and half the women in America. I’ve never experienced an orgasm. One half of the women who do can’t have an orgasm from a man being inside of her, and probably half of those we don’t have all these details, only can have a clitoral orgasm. And you know, if you go back to some of the hidden teachings of six thousand six thousand years old, you understand that and the vagina, all the different organs are linked to different areas of the vagina.

John: 00:43:54 And if you just do clitoral stimulation for orgasm, you’re basically only stimulating your kidneys and your kidneys is what filters water. So a lot of weight gain that women had is too much clitoral stimulation, too much clitoral, orgasms. It’s basically all the energy’s going there and it’s coming from the other organs rather than going through your whole body. You know, we really need to understand one of the greatest things for health is great sex and orgasmic experience with someone you love. You can’t get to these higher levels of 10, nine, eight, nine, 10 like that, unless you experience real love. That’s the whole key to this. And that’s where you can be both hard, which is your masculine energy and feel love. You know, this is the two things together. And women after, you know, there’s certain exercise where women have to learn to keep the Regina tight.

John: 00:44:43 You know, they’re there. You just have to do the Kegels and, and, and contract. So there’s a real connection because it’s that stimulation in the vagina. It allows full energizing of her body. If it’s the whole vagina, not just the clitoris. And now we have, you know, we have men addicted to porn. We have women more and more addicted to their, their vibrator. Now vibration overstimulates the clitoris and overstimulates the kidneys, it’s going to be hard to lose weight. Uh, it’s, you gotta throw it away. You need to have a man do it for you. You need to have real touch to do it. Does it energetic sharing that happens where you joined with a man when we start opening up to realize these things and we’re getting there because we’re letting go of all this Victorian sexual suppression stuff where, you know, sex is the most beautiful spiritual thing you can do on this earth.

John: 00:45:29 And it’s awesome because it’s so powerful. It’s the most destructive thing, you know, is like the atomic. Yeah. You know, we’re in an age where we’re so powerful. It can be in there for good or for bad, but that’s what we’ll keep couples together. Personally. and I’ve couple thousand, I have counseled thousands of couples, only a few cases where we’re a couple wanted divorce when the sex was great. Always, you know, couples and you know, don’t see they have all these other problems. They’ll complain about this and complain about this, but if they just had great sex, they wouldn’t be worrying about those things. They wouldn’t have gotten in those arguments. And a man would not be angry. The angriest men are the ones who are not getting laid. That’s where it comes from. You look at all these, you know these terrorists and people like that, you know, they didn’t have fathers.

John: 00:46:14 They have no role model of what it means to be a man. They’re all fatherless. They grew up without fathers and this is research we’re seeing is happening today. What half of the boys in America, I wrote a book called Boy Crisis was Warren Farrell have the boys in America growing up without fathers. What happens is they have no role model of how a man can provide for a woman. Therefore when a woman’s unhappy and women are always going to have ups and downs and their and their mood and so forth, and if he doesn’t know how to deal with that, he goes to his female side cause he doesn’t have confidence, hasn’t seen it over and over with his dad. He doesn’t have confidence of how to make a woman happy. Then suddenly he loses confidence. His testosterone levels convert into estrogen. He becomes angry and depressed. We have to understand that when a man is angry or unhappy or depressed or irritable, argumentative, defensive, all those things that kill relationships, he needs immediately know I’m out of control.

John: 00:47:08 Whatever she says, it’s not her fault. I’m pushed her over the edge. She depends on me to keep her grounded and her love and I just went to my female side. It puts her on her male side. She pulls her sword and she loses her ability to say loving things and says really mean awful things. Mistrusting things ask, why would you do that? How could you say that? Why would you, why did you do this? How could you forget this? All of that stuff that just like a punch in his stomach cause she’s not on her female side, but a man can push a woman to her male side. A woman pushes a man to his female side. That was the example. When women do it all at home, men are going to sit back on the couch and have no energy to do anything.

John: 00:47:47 We’re waiting for the emergency. We need to feel needed. Women need to feel trust that they can get what they need. And these are, this is the new art of communication. Previous generation did not have this culture kept everything in balance, but now our goal is no longer to be in balance in relationship and that old fashioned way. We want to go to a higher level self actualization, you know, transcending the ego, becoming spiritual beings and service and harmony. This is a big task. You know, this is a whole nother challenge for society and it comes through relationship. It comes through recognizing gender roles today, outdated gender roles. We transcend that, but we have to recognize gender is real and it exists. And very few people would acknowledge that. That’s why I love this new book, which talks about the hormones because nobody can say, you know, if you take, if you take the extreme, you know what we might say, toxic feminism not toxic.

John: 00:48:42 Toxic feminism that hates men. That’s an extreme. I’m totally feminists myself. I love women. I’m all standing for women. I love for men, but there’s toxicity on both sides. And so when you get the toxic feminist, what they talk about is that there is no gender difference and that is only created by culture. And the truth is it’s opposite. Culture has always evolved. Culture is something we create in order to support people in being authentic to their level of evolution. And the past, we did not have the level of evolution capable of being both male and female at the same time, having the masculine and the feminine. But that’s only in consciousness. It’s only in spirit. In spirit we are both masculine and feminine. But in this physical body, we have to respect the temple of the spirit, which means that I have a need as a biological creature to balance my hormones very differently from a woman.

John: 00:49:37 So I need to have support to be on my masculine side if I’m too feminine. So what would that look like? Well, let’s say I’m stressed out. If I’m stressed, that means I’m low. Too much estrogen, not enough testosterone. So I need to do something to build testosterone. Well, I have to stop doing anything that will create estrogen. Well, what are the things that create estrogen? Intimacy? I need to withdraw. I need to detach. I need to pull away. I need to, and my wife, I love my wife. She’s an estrogen machine for me. Every time I get close to my wife, my estrogen is going to go up. So if it goes too high, my testosterone goes too low or that’s why after you’ve had sex, if you’re a guy, many guys, you have sex with your wife or your partner or whatever and you, you ejaculate.

John: 00:50:24 When you ejaculate, you’re going to your maximum female side. That’s pure female. That’s surrender as this kind of like, oh my God, I love you forever and then I want to leave you, but it’s too much estrogen. A huge amount of oxytocin gets produced. What are the functions of the oxytocin that creates those contractions? Is oxytocin through affection, through touch. It creates safety, and when you’re saying your testosterone goes down, danger increases testosterone. Okay, we know that. You know, problem. Got to solve it. Urgency, get out there, raise your testosterone, safety, the message. We’re saying everything’s fine now we’re just going to relax and cuddle there. No sex there. Okay. Just obviously Towson, so what are the functions of oxytocin is it lowers testosterone and allows estrogen to go up. Now that’s not known fully yet. I found some little bits of research to back it up, but I have to pick and choose.

John: 00:51:17 What happens is about 20 years ago we learned through science that oxytocin was highly significant and helpful for women to regulate stress. Now what I’ve found is oxytocin and oxytocin is generated by affection, compliments, being heard, harmony, safety, feeling, and here’s the biggest safety. Somebody has your back. Somebody has your back and what happens in the beginning? Women feel he’s there for me and then he forgets. He doesn’t do this, he doesn’t do that. He gets angry a few times. After a while she just go, I can’t ask him. I can’t ask him. I’ll have to do it myself. And why is that? That’s a whole other dynamic. I talk about men’s grumbles. Let’s say I’m on the computer, I’m focused and let’s say my testosterone is not like really, I’m not fully confident. Okay. If I’m not fully confident on focusing my, they really solved the problem, I’m really into it.

John: 00:52:12 So I’m fully trying to maintain my, my, my focus. And then my wife walks up and says, John, did you do this and this and this. Now to shift my focus, hyper focus over to her has a symptom of irritable. I’m going to be a little irritable. Okay. Cause I just let go of my focus and I’m shifting over to estrogen land. Too much estrogen in that moment. So there’s a grumble that men have kind of irritation, annoyed and women feel that. They don’t know that once the grumble is over, it’s over. It’s not a big deal. When women grumble, it’s a big deal. They don’t forget. If you ask a woman to do something, she goes, well I don’t want to do it and oh please do it. That’s going to be like in the history books. Okay. So when women grumble it means it’s a big problem when men grumble, just ignore it. And then reward it.. Just give a lot of love and it goes away and it’s like a dog who has a tail. You know, some dogs will bite and have growl, but they’re got their tail up. That means they’re not going to bite you, but they’re wagging their tail. They’re happy to stay barking, but they’re wagging their tail. But if they’re not wagging their tail and they’re barking, then watch out. That’s a woman. So when men bark, women, women project, oh my gosh, I better not ask again. Otherwise he’ll hold on to all these feelings of resentment, but it made it very quick to let it go. Only if she rewards him. That’s the whole key for men. Remember I did this selfless thing, something I didn’t want to do, but if I anticipate you rewarding me with love, appreciation then it’s okay. I guess I should give a few examples here.

Brad: 00:53:47 One them I give example of a couple that has great sex. There’s, there’s rewards going on. Everyone feels rewarded. And so these, these nit picking arguments are turned out to be trivial.

John: 00:53:58 Absolutely. I think of one story, but I’ll try the big story, but I shorten it down. So one day I’m listening, my wife and she just had all these complaints and all these complaints and I said, okay, I’m just going to listen. And it was like went on for 50 minutes almost now. I said, now can I talk to you about what I feel because I’m ready to give her 50 complaints back tit for tat petty stuff. You know, but if you’re going to be petty, I’m going to be putting, this is ridiculous thing couples do. And then you said, if you’re happy, I have no problem. But if you’re going to complain, why got count complaints and make it fair? So I said to my wife, after listening all this time, now you feel hurt. She said, yes. I said, well, would this be a good time for me to tell you how I feel?

John: 00:54:35 And I was just ready to go on all my defensiveness, you know all about well, for every problem she has I got to. Okay. So I can, I can complain to if you let me do it. So as I said, would this be a good time? And she says, no, and then I just listen for a good 30 minutes and you’re not going to let me. It’s like it really quick, the other. But that was my female side. Got It. Okay. So then so I say, well, when would be a good time? And she says, I don’t know, but right now I want to bask in the sunshine of your love. I was like, what? How can you feel loved by me when you just criticize me for fucking 30 minutes? But it was, I didn’t fight back. I was able to sort of detach and hold my feelings over there, but I still had them.

John: 00:55:17 That was my estrogen over there. It was still, I’m still upset. So let’s call it a 100 degree upset. Then she said, you know, I’m gonna make you your special dinner tonight. And she was smiling and she was happy and she started singing in the kitchen. I mean, I thought it was in a Disney movie, little blue birds going around. So again, happy woman made me feel successful. So my testosterone starting to rise, my estrogen starting to go down, but still I was feeling a bit angry, a little bit resentful. You know that, hey, I share. I listened. She didn’t listen to me. Then that night I’m in bad baby to go to sleep, turned over and she goes over to the drawer with the sexy lingerie and she puts on some sexy lingerie and I’m going, why a woman who had 50 minutes of criticizing complaining about me and her life, how could she wouldn’t have sex with me?

John: 00:56:02 But I certainly didn’t mind. And she came and gotten bad and I kind of felt a little anger, but then somehow she just started reaching down south and touching me. And it’s the, the thing about men is we forget everything is forgotten when the blood flows south. So then we made love and it was wonderful. I forgot we were upset, but then went to sleep. Then the next morning she just sort of woke me up and John, this might be a good time if you want to tell me how you feel. I have no complaints at all. Those things were petty. It was nothing. All we want as men is they want to feel that we have been successful in making a woman happy and there’s nothing more powerful than a great sex life.

Brad: 00:56:38 Oh, what a story, man.

John: 00:56:40 It is a good story.

Brad: 00:56:41 So back to a common situation where we’re not supposed to get angry when we’re out of balance and we’re holding onto, Huh,

John: 00:56:51 Let me, let me back up. You’re going to be angry when you’re, when you get angry and you’re a man, when you’re out of balance, then you will be, one of the things is you’ll be anger is a sign that you are out of balance. So what you do is on judge the anger. Nobody’s wrong for being out of balance, but what you do as a man, as you recognize, don’t speak. If you talk, talking about feelings increases estrogen, talking about solutions, my create testosterone. If your partner said, oh, what a good idea, but they’re not going to say that right now. So if you’re angry, you need to take distance. Distance creates testosterone and do something that increases testosterone. Now, you know, my book has a lot of things, but basically exercise, meditation, anything you’re good at, will build your testosterone levels up.

Brad: 00:57:38 So then you go ahead and do that and then you come back and you’re still holding on to something. Maybe it’s an important matter that you really do need to address. Unlike unlike John Gray who forgot the next morning, whatever is his petty things where it, but maybe it’s, oh a, we looked at the, the credit card bill and, and we’re, we’re over the max limit and we already had a talk about this and I’m still upset even though we just had great sex last night. Uh, then I guess there’s a safer, more strategic time to really make progress because you’re, you’re back in testosterone balance is that you’re a recommendation?

John: 00:58:12 The recommendation, one of the qualities of masculinity now talking to the man is accountability. All successful men and successful people are accountable for whatever happens in their lives. Do you look at it and you go to the, you know, somebody can hit me, okay, I’ve been affected, but then I have to be accountable. How did I set myself up to get that blow? How would I put myself in that situation where that was going to happen? You, that’s accountability. If you don’t have accountability, you’re always in a victim. If you’re a victim, your estrogen levels are going to go up, and that’s one of the problems today is one of the things for women who have low estrogen, which is rampant. Now they’re all going to doctors to get estrogen, and that’s not the answer. When the women have low estrogen, one of the ways is complaining and being a victim.

John: 00:58:59 When you express, talk about negative emotions and negative feelings and talk about what you’re missing inside, what you’re missing in your life, estrogen levels go up. That’s why. That’s why therapy is 90% women. They come to therapy as you get to complain by somebody who empathizes and connects with you or ray who brings your estrogen levels back up. So back to men when pull away, and my whole thing is, first I need a bump my testosterone up. Then I need to reflect on what happened and look, how did I contribute to what happened? So I’m not coming back to point out to her what she did. I’m seeing my mastery in life. Is it? How did I connect? How did I contribute to it? And I don’t ever tell her how she contributed unless she’s really just having one of those nice after sex conversations.

John: 00:59:48 So if you’re still hurting inside, you don’t talk to your partner. If you’re a man, you go to another man and you make jokes about it. That’s another thing that men have to learn. Women need to go heavy to come light men need to go light to come back to opening the heart again. And you can learn this from like firemen who really see the worst of life, you know? And when they leave a fireplace, they don’t want any women around. They’ll just make jokes about what they saw. They have to because they saw the worst. And soldiers will do the same thing. You become irreverent and you talk about, you lighten it up. You have to disconnect from your emotions. Now, Buddha, I, I’m a big meditator. Okay. I teach meditation as well, and that’s my major way to disconnect from my estrogen. Basically, Buddha was teaching to men who are like criminals, and so when he taught them, empty the mind stop thinking. That’s the worst thing for women to do. They need to talk about what’s going on inside, but for men it’s about learning to forget temporarily what’s bothering you and feel good. Then when you feel good, look at the problems and how you can solve them without making other people, without not communicating criticism. That’s the whole thing. And those are communication skills. But what we’re focusing on here is you need to get to the place where you don’t have to talk about what you feel to feel better. Your heart is open again.

Brad: 01:01:05 Wow! That’s being accountable. That’s big.

John: 01:01:09 Yeah. That’s being a man.

Brad: 01:01:10 Right from your book. You said, suck it up,

John: 01:01:14 Suck it up. And of course there’s all the poor men, poor men, they’d been taught to suck it up and push their feelings down. So just talk about your feelings and not get an arguments and I’ll go get in fights. That’s what happens. There’s a place that I talk about my feelings all the time, but when they’re loving, when my heart is open, that’s what women are really, when they say, what are you feeling? They’re hoping what you’re feeling is positive. They don’t want it. They, you know, talking about negativity, if you’re a man, why your charge is the worst thing you can do. Analyzing and talking to another guy or talking to a woman therapist is fine too, but never from the point of view of trying to change the person. See when you’re upset, usually we’re trying to change somebody. If you’re upset and you’re trying to just st change somebody. You’re pushing at them, they’re going to resist you. You know, you will always get more of what you, what you don’t want. If you resist it, you push at it rather than open up and provide understanding and that’s a whole nother part of the book, which is understanding what women’s primary needs are and men’s primary needs. It’s a big picture. This has never been taught before.

Brad: 01:02:22 That’s why I loved it so much. I want to take some tidbits away, like what we can take those baby steps back to getting out of these bad patterns. And one of them is the the Venus talks. So you can describe a, when the woman comes home from a stressful day in the workplace, the modern workplace, where to, it’s a new thing for females anyway, on the evolutionary timeline. And what’s a, what’s a Venus talk? What’s the man to do there?

John: 01:02:45 Okay, here’s a practical, that is when this is something couples need to discuss. This doesn’t work if we don’t understand the concept that women need help to come back to their female side. They need that help. And men can provide that help. We’re not talking about what help men need. We’re talking about what women need help. Who are the guys who are always saving women? We, that’s our job. We’re supposed to save the women and women are the most unhappy people today at all history. So much depression, so much divorce, someone dissatisfaction. They need our help. And one of the biggest problems for men is as women become more independent, they don’t need us. So many men out of work. We don’t have a job. And when a man doesn’t have a job, he’s somewhat depressed. He sits there and watches TV, plays his video games. He doesn’t have any juice. Every guy who thinks he’s about to get laid has got a lot of juice. He’s happy to do cartwheels for her. That’s who we should be. We should wake up that guy every day. But women have to need us and after that, appreciate what we provide for them. But women don’t need men for money anymore to a great extent. And that was a major thing. That was the major need women had. He’s going to provide. And if you did, you’re providing come on and go to sleep and your wife was happy. She didn’t mind. She, you did. The big thing that she didn’t have to do, didn’t want to do even. And now today she’s doing that herself. So why are we needed? And if you’re not needed, you’re testosterone levels are low. This. This is like a crisis we’re in, so being a stock is for women to recognize what they need more than anything.

John: 01:04:17 If they’re feeling stressed is the race or estrogen, and to raise your estrogen, you need to talk one of the most efficient ways to do it. There’s lots of ways. Go do something you love to do is going to raise your estrogen, go to your doctor and ask for help. That’s why women see doctors more is whenever you need help and you’re trusting, you’re going to get it, your estrogen goes up, but you need to realize one of the beautiful things where being a star is the recognized. Talking about your feelings, nitpicky things, the little things talking about it will actually raise your estrogen. Go to indigenous tribe. You’ll see women talking about nitpicky things all the time. Oh, she didn’t do this. Oh, they didn’t want my child’s not doing. Just little things, talking about not big things, little things, nitpicky things about at work.

John: 01:05:01 They didn’t do this, they didn’t do this, but that produces a little estrogen. More estrogen is what she can talk about, the emotions she’s pushing down all day long. So that would look like I was in traffic. I was so frustrated because I wanted to go here. I was disappointed because I got to, the computer was broken again. How many times I have to ask these guys, but to feel emotions, uh, concerns, disappointments, frustrations, and that’s a whole a section, you know, that’s, that’s like learning how to speak English, how to speak language, you know, emotional intelligence, how to communicate your emotions and the way you do it. Or you communicate your emotions but not about him. That’s the art you have to say, this is not about you. I’m not looking for a solution. I just need your, I need your presence. I need you to just be there and not speak and not offer advice.

John: 01:05:46 Do nothing, just don’t speak. I’m going to do this for five or six minutes. That’s it. Practice sharing emotions about your day, about little stuff. But you’re revealing what’s inside. So the intimacy is about men going into women. It’s about women having to open up and share. And it’s a powerful estrogen stimulators cause you’re sharing nit picky things, which you would never let anybody know. You’d be always seen as a weak person. I don’t want us to be that needy person. I don’t want to be seen as overly sensitive on top. Those emotions are there. And so she has to learn to soften and open up talking about little things and over time, more and more estrogen gets produced as opposed to holding it in until becomes big things. See we were in this place of the problem has to be really big before we get emotional.

John: 01:06:34 And that’s a masculine quality. You know, I’m standing in front of an audience and cry and everybody has huge respect for me because I’m talking about my wife who died of cancer and you know, I feel like I don’t want to live then, oh my God, that’s very manly because it’s a big problem. But if I say, you know, God my, My, my book, I didn’t meet my book deadline or they didn’t pay me enough, you know, it was like, oh I like that line and get out there and do it. You know? So there’s a distinction here. So Venus Talk is learning how to express frustration, disappointment, concerns, worries, and ideally get deeper to the emotions of it. And his job is only to listen, listen. And then after you’re done like six, seven minutes and then talk about, but you don’t need to say anything. I love my job, I love my life, I feel great. I just didn’t need to get that off my shoulders and I’ll feel better. And then he come and then go in for the hug and then let them know a three second hug, six second hug just feel so good. I’m just feel so glad I can come home to you. You’re such a grounding influence in my life. Boom. It goes like, Hey, I didn’t have to do anything. And I did that. That’s like pure Zen. You know, that that’s not doing, doing it’s enlightenment,

Brad: 01:07:40 Right? Cause we have to suppress the, the burning desire to solve the problem. So when you hear these crazy, uh, complaints about, uh, the, the, the workplace dysfunction, you, you have a quick solution, but you have to suppress that and just listen and nod and tone down that the male side. Otherwise you’re going to bring those hormones out of balance.

John: 01:07:58 That’s right. That’s right. So that’s a good practical and I another practical one just to walk away with men. Anytime you’re angry, stop talking, walk away. Women, if a man is angry, don’t ask him more questions. Don’t follow him. That’s how you create worst relationships. And most women do that. I see it. And over, a guy’s tendency is just to walk away and the women’s bar following him asking questions. It’s just like taking a wound and pounding on it and bringing out the worst of them. And it will just bring up more estrogen. He’s out of control and then they’ll do things. It’s awful. And women, you know that their nature is to keep talking and what are asking questions. Are real strong man. If he understands this doesn’t answer them. He just says, look, I need to take time to think about it. Well, why do you do that? Don’t you love me? I just need time to think about it and walk away. Don’t let her engage you into more conversation.. These are like, and what gives you the power to do that is to know you’re destroying your relationship. If you talk when you’re emotionally upset,

Brad: 01:08:54 well, both. Both parties can be accountable in that example and no, no. What makes people click and tick?

John: 01:09:01 You know how I learned that one is Bonnie used to say I would start getting defensive and her, she said, my tone sounded angry. I didn’t think I was angry, but she said, you’re getting angry or something like that and I know I’m just making a point here again, right or wrong here, clear as day. You know, as soon as I would get into that tone, she would just say for us, this is what works. He says, you’re being mean. I’m going away. And she would just walk away. She wouldn’t listen to him. I said, no, no, no. I can be. Well, let me see. You know, it was just talk from your heart. I’ll listen to you otherwise on love listening and it was, she said that boundary and and after. The truth is no man has the intention of being mean. You know, I don’t want to be mean to but some men, maybe kid, that’s not the right expression, but a woman’s should just say not. Don’t talk to me that way and now you’re controlling him. Instead. I need some time. I don’t want to talk. I need some time. I don’t want to talk. You’re owning yourself.

Brad: 01:09:54 But wait, I’m, I’m the bestselling relationship author in America. You have to listen.

John: 01:10:01 Timing.

Brad: 01:10:02 John Gray. What an absolute privilege. Thank you so much. We have to go get this book. It’s a mandatory read for everyone beyond Mars and Venus. I appreciate you spending the time. Good luck with all your, your future happenings.

John: 01:10:16 I appreciate it so much. Thank you so much fun with you.

Brad: 01:10:18 Thank you John.


Dave Rossi is a motivational speaker, retreat leader, and personal, business, and achievement coach.

I spoke at one of Dave’s leadership retreats and saw something special in his message and the passion and intensity with which he delivered it, so I caught up with Dave at the swanky panky Courtside Athletic Club in San Jose, CA.

Dave brings his A-game to the podcast with some fabulous insights on leadership, peak performance, and overcoming fear and anxiety: “Fear is like a giant App on your phone, running in the background and using up battery life.” Don’t live like this any longer! Dave will help you address and process your issues, reprogram self-limiting beliefs, and understand that stress, pressure, fear, anxiety and the like are choices that you have the power to change. Even though the recording session got busted up a few times at the noisy health club, Dave kept bringing the heat and delivering valuable insights. Take some notes, take this stuff to heart, and execute the objectives. Learn more about Dave and his amazing journey of personal transformation that led him to this calling at DaveRossiGlobal.com.


When you experience fear and anxiety, you can acknowledge it and redirect your focus. How do you do that? [00:04:07]

If you need fear as a motivator to live, something is wrong.  [00:12:38]

Enjoying something is the recipe for longevity. [00:14:46]

Fear is a multi-layered issue. A lot of people derive a lot of personal value from winning, [00:17:25]

What about the job interview or college application where you come in second? [00:24:14]

The reason why we end up suffering is because we think we shouldn’t suffer. [00:26:06]

These fearful emotions arise from two places: Your beliefs or your ego. [00:28:04]

We have the power to choose how to react in different circumstances and control how we deal with our feelings.  [00:31:16]

People are in their peak performances when they don’t think about it.  When they just love what they do. [00:35:14]

Beliefs are another source of fear. If you really want to change your beliefs, you can change them. [00:37:00]

Low self-esteem comes from the way you were raised because you compare yourself to others. [00:43:25]

People use life and death situations as a means to actually appreciate value of life. [00:48:29]

How do we ascend to the next level? [00:49:12]

People can says things that are different from how we perceive ourselves. You don’t have to believe them. [00:54:11]

What is the definition of vulnerability? In a weak moment, it takes an incredible amount of strength. [00:58:13]

He helps people learn from the information they already have. [01:01:10]

It is  not what happens to you but it is what you think about what happens to you. [01:02:42]

How are these ideas related to marriage or relationship? [01:03:42]

When you are gracious and humble, you don’t have to be right.  [01:10:31]


Dave Rossi:

Rhonda Patrick:


“Complaining is a way of comparing ourselves to a situation we thought we should have had.”

“The reason why we end up suffering is because we think we shouldn’t suffer.”

“Fear is like fog on your windshield blurring your vision. You make decision based on fear.”


Download Episode MP3

Get Over Yourself Podcast

Speakers: Brad Kearns and Dave Rossi

Brad Kearns:  Welcome to the Get Over Yourself Podcast. This is Brad Kearns.

Dave Rossi:  “The reason why we ended up suffering is because we think we shouldn’t suffer. And in fact, when we complain about not having things, complaining is a form of comparing ourselves to a situation we thought we should have had.”

“People are at their peak performances when they don’t think about it, when they’re in the zone and they just love what they’re doing.”

Brad Kearns:      Here’s a quick thank you to our sponsors. They make this show possible and the tremendous production behind it – online and in audio.

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And now, onto our show.

Hi listeners, I’m excited to bring you this deep discussion and fast-moving discussion. This is definitely not a 1.5 speed podcast. We are going to go deep with Dave Rossi of Dave Rossi Global Leadership Training.

He’s got this wonderful kind of a new operation for him. He’s not one of these seasoned slick guys that have been doing leadership training and doing their DVDs and CDs for 20 years and spouting their talking points. He’s very real and authentic, just getting going with this career change.

But the guy has a gift for this stuff. It just comes out as soon as you meet him and engage with him. And I had the privilege of participating in a leadership retreat that he conducted over in the Santa Cruz Mountains of the San Francisco Bay area recently. I talked about diet and fitness and he was doing the leadership training with some other presenters and presenting this beautiful weekend experience, where we integrated yoga into the classroom, lecturing and discussion.

Some of the stuff he said just stuck with me. And I started thinking about it day after day after day after I left the weekend retreat. And I thought it was really powerful and profound, and that’s why I wanted to get him on the podcast and talk about some of these basic concepts that he presented that I have shared with so many people since that day.

Just really quickly, because we’re going to talk about it in the show too, but when you experience fear and anxiety, which we do constantly in daily life because of the way that daily life is structured, and the social media experience making us feel inferior and not enough, and that we need to step it up because we’re looking at the person toasting us from the camera on the beach in Hawaii. “Wish you were here, sorry you’re not.” That kind of thing. When you experience fear and anxiety in your life, you can acknowledge it and then redirect your focus. Redirect your thoughts back to your values and your vision.

So, we’re going to get deeper into that. I’m going to ask him more of what he means by that. But this guy can take a concept like that and go off and spout these beautiful quotes from Henry Ford and the knowledge base that he has and the effortlessness in which he can process people.

He did a great job processing me at the leadership retreat and a little bit on the show where I played devil’s advocate and said, “Wait a second, what if fears are things that motivate you to perform well in your job and meet your sales quota every quarter?”

So, I think you’re going to get some great value out of this. Slow down and listen carefully to Dave Rossi. It’s wonderful stuff. Something that we can all benefit from. Thank you very much. Enjoy.

Dave Rossi Global here in our global headquarters of the fabulous health club here in the Silicon Valley. This seems like your hang out. You have some classes here. You’re doing your thing. And I wanted to catch up with you. We had an incredible leadership retreat that you organized and presented at, over at the 1440 multiversity.

So, if you google this incredible facility in the Santa Cruz mountains, but our mutual friend Angelic had me out there. I was going to talk about diet and do this leadership thing. What’s this all about and I got drawn in. It was captivating the message that you had on this subject and these things. This was, I don’t know, a couple months ago and I keep coming up and thinking of these insights that you provided to the group.

So, I thought we should dig into some of this stuff and welcome to the show, man. Thanks for coming.

Dave Rossi:         Brad, thanks for having me. I think the first thing that comes to mind is what’s going on with you that these things keep on looping into your mind? Whether you loved it or you’re lacking something. What’s the root of that? That would be my first thought.

Brad Kearns:      Yeah, the big one that I’ve shared with so many people is when you experience fear and anxiety, which is basically our day-to-day existence with whatever’s going on, whatever’s bugging you and whatever’s on your mind. Fear and anxiety come up over and over about what’s going to happen in the future, right? And so, whenever you get into that state, I think the training at the leadership retreat was you, first acknowledge it, and then you control your thoughts because we have control over our thoughts and you redirect toward your vision and your purpose. Did I pick up that okay?

Dave Rossi:         You did. I think you got the abridge version, I guess kind of at our retreat, because it was a pretty fast-paced retreat. It was on leadership and a bunch of other stuff. But one thing that all leaders do, and I consider athletes and people who have peak performance, whether it’s music or art or whatever, they have fear and they also love what they’re doing – and that’s leadership. Leadership is controlling fear, leadership is exceeding and excelling at a high performance rate or a high peak rate.

The thing with fear is that our brains have this tremendous mechanism in our head for fear. So, if you consider your brain a computer, right? So, how many hundreds of thousands of years have humans evolved? And our fear mechanism was really used for running away from giant animals, animals with big teeth, what foods to eat or what foods not to eat. And so, our fear mechanism was really created and needed for our survival.

But now, what is this giant fear mechanism used for? “Hey, this guy cut me off. Hey, I want to become the first place with this next race. Hey, why did this person call me a name?” So, this fear mechanism gets triggered with kind of trifle things, but yet it’s real. We still feel the emotion and we still react to it. So, you got the short version, which is, yes, you have to acknowledge it. “Okay. I’m feeling fear.” And what is fear. It’s fear of something that hasn’t happened yet. What is anxiety? The fear of a possible future that hasn’t happened yet.

So, we end up making decisions in our life. We ended up acting in real time at the moment and making decisions based on a possible future. It doesn’t mean you don’t acknowledge the fear, it means that you say, “Okay, so I am feeling this emotion of fear, I need to process this. What is it? Where is it coming from? And what do I want to do with it?”

If there is a fear of the future, like, “Hey, this is a tough course, I may not do so well. I’m feeling some fear with this.” Okay, let’s get rid of the emotion and let’s focus on the types of things we can do to solve the problem. “Well, maybe I need to wear a different pair of shoes. Maybe I need to study the course more. Maybe I need to change my strategy.” Whatever it is. You have to acknowledge it. You have to process it and then you need to decide what to do.

Brad Kearns:      So, the fear is this, getting you into this fight or flight state. We’re chronically overstimulating the fight or flight state, which was designed and it’s hardwired in our genetics to save our lives in that short duration, episode of the common example of running from the big cat or even if it’s a week-long rainstorm when we’re fighting for our lives and trying to survive and moving 20 miles a day to get away from trouble in that primal example. And today, it’s like everyday we wake up and we get to trigger fear and anxiety and the stress hormones. And so, we’re in this kind of, I guess disturbed emotional state where our higher thinking and reasoning is suppressed and we’re not being rational. We’re just being emotional and reactive.

Dave Rossi:         Exactly. So, fear is a form of suffering. Okay? Stress is a form of fear. Stress is, “Oh, I can’t finish this at the allotted time. Oh, it’s not going to turn out the way that I want it to turn out. Oh my God, I have five deadlines by tomorrow and I can’t finish them all.” All of these things – stress, fear, anxiety, they’re all forms of suffering.

So, sometimes when we use the word fear, people are thinking of someone with a hockey mask and Jason with the axe, right? We’re not talking about that kind of fear. We’re talking about the psychological fear that occupies our energy. I always refer to this as turning some applications on in your cell phone. And the fear app is a big app. It takes a lot of memory. It takes lot of RAM. All of a sudden, you’re like, “Hey, I can’t send pictures, do videos, and look at Instagram all at the same time. What’s going on? I have too many apps going on.”

Brad Kearns:      All the Silicon Valley analogies, now that we’re here in the headquarters, yeah.

Dave Rossi:         So, fear is a giant app that turns on. And what it does, is it begins to direct our energy and direct our focus towards somewhere else.

Brad Kearns:      Somewhere else other than the actual problem, and doing some problem solving.

Dave Rossi:         Somewhere other than what we’re trying to accomplish. For example, let’s say you’re driving your car somewhere in Santa Cruz or Auburn. You’re driving the freeway and you’re looking at the road and you’re watching cars pass you by or trees or whatever it is, mountains. And all of a sudden, going the other direction, you see a car that looks like your wife or your girlfriend or whatever. Or a teacher or something. And you look behind and say, “Was that so and so, I think? Wait a minute, I just saw … could that be them?” And so, you’re driving, “What is she doing over here? She’s supposed to be – what?” And then an hour later, you call her. You can’t get a hold of her. “I can’t get ahold of her. Wait a minute. Was that her?” The next morning, was she supposed to be …”

Your mind’s occupied with this thought, right? This thought of fear. You might even connect the dots and say, “Oh, maybe she’s somewhere she shouldn’t be. That had to have been her.” And your whole attention is diverted from driving for how long? A day, two days, until you get an answer. Maybe you got an answer that you didn’t like. So, now, you turn on another set of, “That was kind of a weird answer. Not the answer I was looking for.”

So, now you’re diverting more energy and more attention to other things that aren’t even real. We call that crossing into the world of truths through the world of falsehoods. So, when we dedicate emotions like fear to situations or instances that aren’t necessarily real, we think they’re real. Because we think something’s real, it doesn’t mean it’s actually real. Because we feel fear, it doesn’t mean there’s actual fear, right?

Brad Kearns:      Almost never is.

Dave Rossi:         Almost never is, right. I mean, fear’s a delusion. Doesn’t mean it’s not real, because it is real. You feel it. But the actual thing that you are afraid of is possibly a delusion, because it hasn’t happened yet. In that moment, it’s a delusion. If you’re afraid of losing the race and then you lose it, okay, you were afraid of losing the race and then you lost the race.

But Henry Ford was famous for a very great quote that said, “Whether you think you can or whether you think you can’t, you’re right.” So, you were afraid of the race and you lost because you were afraid of losing, and you fulfilled your destiny. I don’t know, it’s hard to say. But the point is, nothing good is going to come from running the emotion of fear as well as actually just focusing on what you can do to solve it.

Brad Kearns:      Yeah, I remember getting hit with these insights and going for hours on it in the leadership retreat. And then there’s some counter punching back saying, “Well, wait a second, Dave, the fear is what motivates me to get up in the morning and work really hard, so I can keep my position at the top of the salesforce or something like that. And that I need these kind of things. Otherwise I’d be relaxing and sitting on the lounge chair reading a novel all day.”

Dave Rossi:         Well, yeah, that was kind of fun interaction. If you need fear to live, I think there’s something wrong. If you need fear to do what you’re doing every day, then you’re probably doing the wrong thing. If you need to fear as a motivator … there actually was one woman who – actually, it was a different retreat. She said, “I have so much stress, my hair’s falling out, but I need this to succeed. I need that drive.”

Now, it’s kind of the extreme, right? But even if you cross over into that realm that I need fear to actually do what I’m doing, you’re doing the wrong thing. You should be doing things because you love it. You should be motivated because you love it. What type of motivation is more pure and more powerful? Fear or love? For a lot of people it’s fear because it’s more prevalent. But love is just love of doing something.

I think one of the reasons why we hit it off so well is your story connected so well to what I teach, and you didn’t even know it. I’m not sure how many of your listeners know your story, but it’s phenomenal. And I’ll tell you the tidbits that I found incredible, was that you quit your job in an accounting firm because of the love of something. And then you did it purely for the love of it and your success was found because of the love of it. Where your competitors failed because they competed for the reward of the race, not because of the race itself. They were focused on winning, not on racing. And they diverted their attention for the fear of losing or the excessive desire for winning, which is the same thing.

The obsessive desire to win is the same thing as the obsessive desire not to fail, right? And so, you did it for the love of it. And that was an incredible story and it fits so well into this.

So, loving something, enjoying something is the recipe for longevity and the true recipe for success. Not that you can’t be successful with fear. That’s not the point. The point is it’s not the recipe for longevity. It’s not the recipe for prolonged success or prolonged enjoyment, and you’re going to have a lot more fun doing it.

Brad Kearns:      Or the recipe for healthy, balanced lifestyle even if you are successful. And I think we see so many examples of the world of celebrity and the top athletes doing train wreck lifestyle behavior because they’re poorly adjusted human beings, because all they’ve done is had this maniacal drive to succeed driven and motivated by fears or someone who told them they weren’t good enough and unresolved issues and all this stuff floating around.

Geez, I was even so sad to read about After the Masters, this guy Patrick Reed, who won the Masters Tournament, Golf Tournament, first time, a young guy, great breakthrough. And then he’s estranged from his family. And there was all this noise going on and these in-fightings and an article about the poor golfer who’s just trying to make birdies.

But this thing that comes to be this monster drive to succeed and conquer the world, it doesn’t necessarily guarantee happiness. And we have over and over examples of, so what if you’re successful? Are you a nice person? Are you cutting people off in the parking lot because you have a better car or what have you?

Dave Rossi:         Well, fear to me, is a multilayered issue. So, number one, I call this the “scroll nut theory”. Did I go over this in the retreat?

Brad Kearns:      I think so.

Dave Rossi:         So, for a lot of people, they derive a lot of personal value from winning or they derive a lot of personal value from having trophies or medals or money or fancy cars. And they value themselves based on what they have or what they do, or they value themselves based on what others think of them.

So, when they win and people think highly of them, then they feel good. And when they lose and they start getting the press, they think badly of themselves. They no longer get this boost in personal valuation. If you value yourself based on those things, you can’t necessarily control those things.

Let’s say I value myself as a runner, and I go to this race and I win. And everyone’s like, “Oh my God, you’re so great.” Okay, I won, I feel great. So, I feel really valuable. Now, I have another race to do. Oh my legs kind of hurt. I kind of hurt myself, overtrained or I tripped, or someone bumped into me. I don’t know, I hurt myself from some random reason. So, then I lose the race.

Okay. So, if I value myself based on winning and now I lost because of an injury, I’m pretty low and I had nothing to do with it. So, now my valuation of who I am as a person is based on other things other than what I can do as an individual.

So, when we value ourselves based on these winnings or the reward rather than the journey, we feel horrible about ourselves when we don’t win any longer. And so, what does it take to value ourselves based on something else? It’s vulnerability. We have to be vulnerable. We have to accept that we’re not always going to be the best. We have to accept that we’re not always going to have the nicest car, and value ourselves based on something else other than winning. Value ourselves based on lots of other things, but predominantly not the reward.

Brad Kearns:      And we’re talking about this big picture example. Let’s say in my story, I was a racer and I went to do the triathlon circuit. I quit my job and there was a big race and I won. And then I got too stuck on myself and I struggled because I push and forced things to happen that weren’t naturally meant to be, because I got consumed by my success. Then I had to recalibrate and get over myself. That’s why I named my podcast that term. That we’re constantly working hard on getting over ourselves and just doing things with that pure motivation to enjoy the experience and not attach your self-esteem to the results.

So, I feel like these come out in micro examples throughout the day and it’s like a pinball machine where our self-esteem is constantly – we’re one inch away or one bumper pin away from getting thrown off our wonderful mood that we started the morning with. Then something comes up in the office like, “Oh, nice of you to show up,” says the boss. And then you make a defensive comment back and then you get into an unhealthy exchange and you’re deflated and all that positive energy is gone. And it’s a tough way to live because it is so fragile. Instead of having something that’s more intrinsic, where you know you’re doing the best you can, you don’t make excuses, you don’t have any stories.

Gosh, you think about teenagers sitting in the circle and they’re all trying to find themselves and identify themselves and be part of a group or fit in. And you make the wrong comment and someone says, “Lame,” and everyone laughs. And just like that, your day’s ruined. And it’s tough for a teenager. But then when we’re 47-years-old and we’re having a little spit spat with our 49-year-old older brother because he’s always treating me like the kid, doesn’t think I can do anything or whatever. This stuff carries out and you can see the writing on the wall. It’s like I got to get over myself, I have to recalibrate.

And especially, the thing that came up for me because we can express fears about so many things. You could just come up with 10 right away, off the top of your head. If you’re listening now, pause the tape and write down your 10 biggest fears.

Dave Rossi:         So, listening to you talk, it kind of reminds me of Tiger Woods a bit. Not that I know all of his story, but certainly the press has spoken a lot of it. And the impressions that come out is that when he loved the sport and just loved to play, he won. And when he lost, because of his personal problems, all he wants to do is win again and he can’t win for the life of him. I’m sure his injuries has something to do with it, but certainly the way he looks, acts and feels, is that he just wants to win rather than just loving the game.

I think when you think about fear, it’s one of those things that inside of our minds, we think things are what they are when they’re really not. And we can control what we think about. I mean, when we hear and think and see things, our eyes actually don’t really see the things that we see. Our eyes just take the information in, the light, and then our brain interprets what it is. Same thing with our ears. Our ears don’t actually hear anything. They get vibrations and then our brain decides what to turn those are patients into.

Same thing with our mind. Things that we hear or think. For most of us, fear is, “If I lose this, it’s bad, right? If I don’t become successful, it’s bad.” And we’re the ones determining whether those things are good or bad. And we have the power to say, “Hey, if I don’t win, it’s okay.”

There needs to be a really, really clear distinction between wanting to win and having fear of not winning. Because you can want to win. That’s an entirely different thing. When it becomes obsessive, where it’s going to make you feel emotionally different or alter and turn those applications on of fear, right? That’s when it becomes the distincting point or the line so to speak, or the margin. You can want to win and you can want to do well and you can want to excel-

Brad Kearns:      Very badly.

Dave Rossi:         Very badly.

Brad Kearns:      You can be a killer out there.

Dave Rossi:         And then if you don’t, why would you be upset? If you love the sport and you wanted to win and you love it so much that you did all the things you needed to do to win, like Brad Kearns did in all of his races, did all the things you needed to do to win – you listen to your body, you had fun doing it, you love training, you love running, you love swimming, you love all these things about it. You love the grit. You love getting hurt, you love feeling tired, right? You love doing all the things. You love playing chess with your body, and then you come in second. “Okay, great. Let’s go train for the next one. I love this sport. Let’s go do it again.”

Brad Kearns:      Right. That’s the ideal peak performance mindset. Now, let’s apply that to this job interview that you so desperately want and you come in second or you’re applying to graduate school and you’ve gone through all the processes and take the test and you find out that it didn’t work out.

I’m making up a counterexample because we so often hear these empowering thoughts, and then we go right back into our little hole. “That’s easy for you to say. You don’t have the bills piling up and I am afraid of losing my job.” And then they go right back into that fixed in struggling mindset.

But you did a good job. I mean, not that these examples came up with that dynamic group we had, but you did a good job kind of taking us further down that road to show us that in fact, it is okay to not reach all these lofty goals that you have, but just the fact that you’re doing your best and you’ve overcome your fears, you’ve redirected your thoughts towards something more empowering, which is what we call the values and the vision, right?

Dave Rossi:         Right. Well, I mean, to take on your first question, I think let’s relate it to a job interview. So, let’s say you have this great interview with somebody. You want this job, you really, really want it, and you just nail it out of the park. And then the guy you’re interviewing with takes your resume. He takes it in the back room and they’re going to talk about who to hire. And some big belligerent person comes in, and they spill coffee on your resume. Or they say, “I don’t like this person’s name. They remind me of my jerky nephew.” Who knows what discussion is happening in that room. Maybe somebody wants their brother to get the job instead of you.

There are so many things that are out of our control that happen. So, you come out, and you don’t get the job. Why would you be upset about that? You did your best, you tried your hardest-

Brad Kearns:      Because life’s not fair and I get super upset if I don’t get something I deserve.

Dave Rossi:         I love that because … I read this in a book. The reason why we end up suffering is because we think we shouldn’t suffer. We think we’re special, right? We think we’re special-

Brad Kearns:      There’s our pull quote Brian. He’s the audio master. We got one for the picture and everything, right there.

Dave Rossi:         We think we’re special. We think we deserve all these things. We think that all these things are geared for us. And in fact, when we complain about not having things, complaining is a form of superiority. It’s a form comparing ourselves to a situation we thought we should have had. “I’m supposed to have this. I didn’t have that, so I’m upset. And now because I’m upset, I’m going to complain about it.”

This is the mechanism of our fear and our brain taking over and telling us how we should feel. We should feel devalued because we didn’t get the job. We should feel like, “Hey, we have the right to complain. Nepotism didn’t give me this job.” Well, it’s allowed to. Security does not exist in nature. Just because you feel like you should feel secure, it doesn’t mean it actually exist. It’s a false sense of security even thinking about feeling secure.

The most wealthy, most powerful man or woman in the country gets cancer, their level of security changes very, very quickly.

Brad Kearns:      Their priorities.

Dave Rossi:         Yeah, I mean, look at Steve Jobs. I mean, he gave this … there was kind of a quote going around on Facebook or something about his dying words, and it was all about loving what you do. I encourage anyone to go look that up – Steve Jobs’ last words before he dies. The guy had accomplished everything he’d ever want to accomplish in business. Incredibly creative guy, influential guy, modern day Thomas Edison, so to speak. And his whole message on his deathbed was, “Love what you do.” So it’s not just my ideas, I’m just here to promote them.

Brad Kearns:      Well, another thing, speaking of fear that we got in the course was that these fearful emotions arise from two places; your beliefs or your ego.

Dave Rossi:         So, your ego or your false version of yourself – I think when we use ego, people think, “Oh, I don’t have any ego. So, that’s not me.” Ego is just another word for a false version of yourself, okay? And so, I don’t want to people to run with that word “ego” and all of sudden, think about, “Oh, I don’t have an ego problem. I don’t drive a convertible and I’m not having a crisis.” I mean, a false version of yourself.

A false version of yourself is when you feel something, when you say something, when you act in a certain way that you’re not choosing, then you’re not yourself. If you feel fear, like I said, stop and process that. Just because you feel it, it doesn’t mean it’s real. So, if you run with that, that’s not really you. You’re running and living in falsehoods. You’re not processing where this fear came from.

It’s just something that’s running you off down the river and you’re saying, “Oh my God, I’m afraid. Oh my God, I have to do this.” You’re not really planning out your next move. If you’re not in control of what you feel and what you say, if you can’t control exactly what you want to say, then somebody else is. And that somebody else is your fear mechanism. This big part of your brain that reacts for you.

Brad Kearns:      So, an example would be getting into argument on the basketball court and almost coming to blows because you couldn’t control your ego or your-

Dave Rossi:         I’ll give you a great example. This weekend, my son had a Water Polo tournament and their team was winning and the goalie became more and more frustrated. And you saw him begin to unravel. You saw the goalie of the other team throwing the ball, “Come on guys, get it together!” And I’m thinking this guy isn’t in control, and he’s going to play worse and worse and worse the more he begins to blame his teammates for more shots being taken on him. He’s not in control of his emotions if he thinks being upset and emotional is going to make him a better player or make his team a better team. Yelling at them isn’t necessarily going to motivate them, and unraveling and yelling and getting frustrated and displaying all this emotion, isn’t going to help him be a better goalie.

Brad Kearns:      Yeah, it might be a band aid in certain ways. And we see this in relationships where you’re trying to navigate a conflict and you do it with sheer force, like as a parent or in a partnership.

McEnroe on the tennis court was famous for bearing down and you can look at his records. And he really did play better when he started to have his temper tantrums. But it seems to me, kind of a superficial band aid for the unaddressed core problems that keep coming out as manifestations of fear. Such as the parent screaming at the unruly kid or any example you can put forth.

Dave Rossi:         Well, I think the real response is are we doing something that’s going to make our performance better or worse? And do we have the power to choose that?

Now, if McEnroe thinks yelling at the umpire is going to get him a better result and it works, and that’s calculating and he’s choosing that, and that’s being used for effect, great. I don’t know what’s going through his mind.

Brad Kearns:      But playing a lot of tennis matches year round, it’s hard to get rallied every point and get that high intensity. So, that was probably his gateway to the next level of focus and concentration, just because it is hard to summon day after day after day.

It’s like I remember not feeling like going out on a workout. And so, I’d crank up some heavy metal music into my Walkman. That’s how old I am. Is we had Walkmans with cassettes going out there. But it was something that sort of an artificial way to jack you up into a different emotional state. And I suppose it’s allowed, it’s better than taking an artificial substance.

But the underlying idea there was like, you need to have your tunes to enable you to go pedal the bike. You can’t just pedal the bike and go, “Oh, here I am doing what I love and going out in nature.”

So, sometimes we have to navigate things and use tips and tricks and techniques. But when you use those negative motivators and things like that, that’s what I want to uncover. Is like, is there a better way?

I think we were off the clock at dinner and you were kind of processing me and I was saying, “Yeah, I do have some fear about starting this new direction in my career, and starting this new podcast. And what if no one likes it and no one listens to it? And we were going further and further down the line and it’s like if I can come back to my values and my vision – and my values and my vision is that I want to get people to tell their stories, to extract interesting information that’s helpful to me. And that’s my starting point. That’s all I can control. And I sure hope and I cross my fingers that it’ll be helpful to other people.

But if I’m in that pure motivation space just for doing the show, is like I enjoy talking with you and I get value from it. And if that’s all that happens and everyone else hates the show, I’ve still had the best way to spend my day and hopefully you too. Because you like talking about this stuff. This is your passion. And if we don’t have to focus on anything beyond that, if we don’t have to worry about our numbers and the spike in listenership from minute 30 to minute 40, and analyze and break that down … and I think we waste a lot of time measuring and judging everything we do rather than just staying with that vision and the values that are driving us deep down.

Dave Rossi:         It’s like saying, “Hey, I’m only going to do this podcast if a thousand people listened to it. Because if I don’t get a thousand people, I’m not doing it.” That’s absurd. I mean, we don’t do things because we have to have some level of success to do them. Now, clearly we need money and we need to live and all those things. Don’t get me wrong.

Okay. So, let’s say you do this because you love it. And obviously you’re in line with all of this, but you’re not doing it because you have x number of listeners. You do it because you love it. You want to help people. You like it, you get value from it and you do it because you love it. And let’s say it’s not paying the bills. That just is a motivation to say, “I need to tweak this a little bit to tweak what I love, but also make it work within the monetary boundaries that I have.”

That’s not fear, that’s calculating, that’s planning. You can still do what you love and find ways to make money at it and find ways to live. So, maybe you lower your means of living because you love it so much. Like what if someone loves to be a teacher and they don’t make a lot of money, but they love it. Like why would we judge they don’t have a lot of money when we do? Society judges others the way we judge ourselves, right? “I’m special because I have money.”

But we don’t value ourselves based on, “I’m special because I’m happy. Or I’m special because I love what I do.” We evaluate people based on what they have or what others think of them. The point is you can plan.

You were right. You were at the workshop when people did raise their hand and say, “Hey, I do need money and I need fear to motivate me.” But there’s a division between when fear is like fog on a windshield and blurs your vision. You make decisions based on fear rather than planning to make sure the things that we’re fearful of can’t be managed. Really disciplined investors, people in business do this. They’re so disciplined. They call it discipline. They manage risk, okay?

They don’t let their emotions get away from them with the deal because it costs lots of money. You always heard the phrase, “Don’t chase a deal. Don’t get emotional over buying a property.” Because they’re disciplined. They know that emotions cost you money.

So, this same type of philosophy in business, it’s the same thing in business and in sports and in music and in art. People are at their peak performances when they don’t think about it, when they’re in the zone and they just love what they’re doing.

A friend of mine played for the Dallas Cowboys, and he would say, “There were these moments when everything just clicked and I didn’t think about what I was doing, and I played my best and I had my best games when I wasn’t overthinking.” And this is the same thing that we see with other peak performance industries like business. We don’t need to have the emotion. We need to register it, we need to think about it, we need to process it, and then we need to decide what to do with it. But don’t let fear be the fog over the windshield that obscures your vision of what you actually really need to do.

Brad Kearns:      So, we talked about the ego part of that, and how it’s pretty natural connection to realize how the protecting of our ego can elicit fears. And then the other part was that your beliefs are also another source of fear. How does that-?

Dave Rossi:         Well, I mean, ego could be a discussion for hours and we kind of just scratched the surface, but I think you kind of understand it. Your belief structure, for example, there’s a thing called a placebo effect. I’m sure everyone’s aware of. 18% of people believe that a pill with sugar cures cholesterol, high cholesterol. They literally become cured of high cholesterol. And why is that? They believe it. They believe that it works.

Now, the other 82% don’t believe it. And so, we don’t know exactly why certain people believe certain things – they just do. It’s the way they are raised. It’s the observations that they had. And so, these belief structures that become part of us affect the way we live life.

You can take two people and put them in the same situation in the military in maybe a posttraumatic stress situation, and one will have PTSD and one will not. And the reason is that one of them has a belief structure that doesn’t cause them to look at the events the same way that somebody else does. Who maybe was raised in a different environment, who saw these events as being very traumatic.

So, these beliefs that we have cause fear in us. And I use the example of these two kids jumping off of a bridge. You’ve all been on vacation and you’ve a bunch of people standing over a bridge or over a rock and people are jumping off into water. Some people are afraid, some are not, right?

So, what is the corresponding thought that drives the emotion? Well, typically in a situation like this, people are standing on top of a rock and they have the thought that the jump is dangerous. And there are other people that have a thought that it’s not dangerous. So, the person who thinks it’s dangerous has a corresponding emotion of fear. And the person who has a thought that it’s fun, does not.

The person with a thought of fun, jumps, and the person with a thought of danger does not. So, what makes those two people think of those thoughts differently? It’s their underlying belief structure that says, “Hey, these types of things are dangerous.” And the other person says, “Hey, I’ve been around jumping off of rocks a lot. And these types of things look fun.

So, beliefs can affect our thoughts, and our thoughts affect our emotions. And so, we have the ability to change our beliefs and change our thoughts. So, we change those thoughts by reprogramming or we change those thoughts by evidence. So, if we’re on top of a rock and we see nine-year-old kids jumping off, it’s pretty substantial evidence that it’s not dangerous and I too can jump, granted it’s deep enough. But the point is evidence can allow us to change our beliefs and change our thoughts.

So, if we’re afraid and it’s tied to danger, get some information, whether it’s dangerous or not.

Brad Kearns:      That’s nice that you attach those because it’s a big difference from just speaking into the microphone and saying, “Don’t be afraid or change your beliefs.” And so, the evidence factor puts it back in our control. Hold on a second. Okay.

Dave Rossi:         It’s just like jumping off that rock or that bridge, is the same thing as the placebo effect. Right? Certain evidence will allow us to accept that jumping off the rock is not dangerous.

Brad Kearns:      Watching the other kid go flying.

Dave Rossi:         Right, but other people still won’t jump. It’s not compelling enough evidence. Just like a placebo effect. Someone comes in with a white coat with a pill, “This is going to cure cholesterol.” “Okay” They believe it. They accept it. Just like they see a nine-year-old jumping off the rock, they too feel that’s suitable evidence. Other people say, “I don’t buy the cholesterol pill. I want to see my cholesterol go down before I accept this pill.” Right?

So, same thing with jumping off the rock. “I don’t trust that the nine-year-old is safe because maybe the water is more shallow, and I’m going to go deeper.” And their mind goes to all these places. So, evidence isn’t the only panacea for overcoming and changing these beliefs.

But who holds those beliefs? We do. If we really want to change these beliefs, we can change them. We can look at them, we can think about them, we can process them. And we can decide if this belief is suitable for what we want to achieve or not.

Brad Kearns:      Examples every day. And it’s interesting because a lot of us don’t even realize that what these things floating around are in fact beliefs. They just think that same sex marriage is wrong, period. Why? Because the Bible says so, or whatever their argument is, but they don’t realize it’s their own personal belief. Or the argument for pro-choice versus pro-life. Well, you guys are wrong on the other side. I’m not even going to share which side I’m on. It’s just the other side is totally wrong. It’s ridiculous and terrible and awful. But that’s a belief until you even … I’ve had arguments with people where they couldn’t even acknowledge that it was a belief rather than an absolutism of the planet earth.

Like the sun comes up and goes down every day or the earth’s round. The earth’s round is pretty much a belief because we can’t see it round until we get that evidence of going in a spaceship or something. But just to get the conversation back on that level, sometimes it takes a stretch. And okay, that was an easy example that yeah, you have beliefs about same sex marriage for or against. Or maybe a belief that you shouldn’t butt into other people’s business and you don’t even have a belief on either side

So, you say you can have these beliefs, but then that’s sort of an awakening at the first level, and then you can start wondering if these beliefs are no longer serving you. For example, the ones you’ve held near and dear for part of your life and you want to progress to the next level or something.

Dave Rossi:         Well, I’ll give you a couple of examples. So, one of the beliefs that plague a lot of us is low self-esteem. And I use this phrase a lot when I talk to people. You can change any belief anytime about anything as often as you want. We hold the key to all of these beliefs. And the one reason why we don’t, and this person I was talking to said they have low self-esteem, which is not uncommon. A lot of people I talk to say they have low self-esteem. And they even said, “I don’t even know where I got it or why I have it,” which most people say also.

They get it from the way they were raised. They get it because they compare themselves to somebody else. They set some imaginary standard of what they think they should have compared to somebody else and they don’t have it. And then they feel lower about themselves. Or as a kid, a coach said, “Hey, you’re not that good at this.” And you’re, “Okay, I’m not that good at this.” And then the next coach, “Well, the coach in the last team said I wasn’t that good at this, so I don’t think I’m that good at this.” And then you’re back to Henry Ford’s quote, “If you think you can, and you think you can’t, you can’t.”

So, you’re back into breeding this pattern or this path, kind of like the shortcut on the grass that no longer has grass. It becomes the dirt path. You’re wearing in a path of low self-esteem.

Brad Kearns:      Right. I mean, those are real nervous system wiring. We’re not talking about … this is not an analogy to the dirt path. It’s talking about your brain is getting hardwired that you suck at singing and therefore, whoa!

Dave Rossi:         Well, the opposite. I actually have this in my book. The American Idol syndrome, the singers are told they’re great. And then they go in front of a judge and they say they stink, and then these people are all angry. “But I have been told I’m great my whole life. Of course, I’m great.”

But the point is, the reason why it’s hard for us to change the belief of low self-esteem, is because it requires a lot of vulnerability, right? So, I said to this person, “Well, a lot of people who have this issue choose to have a high self-esteem.” “What do you mean?” “Well, you’ve chosen to accept low self-esteem. You don’t even know where you got it from. So, why don’t you choose high self-esteem?” “What do you mean?” “Well, is low self-esteem serving you well?” “What do you mean?” “Is that helping you to have low self-esteem?” “Well, not really.” “Then choose high self-esteem.”

Now, it sounds easy and it actually is. It is easy if you can do one thing, and that is plunge into the world of vulnerability and accept rejection. And because when you value yourself based on something other than the tenants of ego, right? When you value yourself on the fact that you’re valuable and that you have life and that you have meaning, and that you have purpose as a living human being – which a lot of other people don’t have. People who are sick and people who are dying. But when you really rely on that as your evaluation system – and the word “rejection” doesn’t exist because you don’t devalue yourself based on rejection. Rejection is just a thing. It’s not a bad thing. It’s just a thing.

You don’t devalue yourself if you try to have high self-esteem and you get knocked down, it doesn’t become something that knocks you down. It says, “Oh, okay. It just is what it is. I’m still valuable.” Do you see what I’m saying?

Brad Kearns:      Mm-hmm. You’re over it. You’re above the fray.

Dave Rossi:         Well, you’re not valuing yourself based on what someone else thinks of you. How much success have you had controlling what other people think of you?

Brad Kearns:      Right, yeah. And so, ask me how I am as a singer? I don’t know. I’ve never made any money as a singer. But if I enjoy it, then I’m a great singer because I enjoy it. I might just be in the shower – is just such a common example of people say, “I’m such a terrible singer or I’m a terrible golfer. Bear with me as we played together for the first time. I’m, going to hold you back. I know it. I haven’t played in so long. These aren’t even my clubs. My shoes are too tight, whatever.” But it’s like a great golfer is the person that goes out there and celebrates other people’s good shots and comments on the scenery and the wonderful golf and that person’s a great golfer. It’s not the score.

Because I’ve played with a lot of people that can score low golf scores, but they’re lousy to play with, because they have a temper or they like to cheat here and there – all those other examples.

Dave Rossi:         I’ll tell another example. It’s like saying, “Hey, I tried to have high self-esteem but I got rejected, and so I feel worse about myself. And while I was walking across the street, I got hit by a car and I’m on life support system. But because I feel badly about myself and I wasn’t successful at my efforts to have high self-esteem, I’m not going to try so hard to live because I think lower of myself.”

I mean, that’s an absurd scenario. Of course, you’re going to fight for life. Of course, you love life. Life is life. Whether or not you were successful in tennis or golf or whether you’re not, just because you think you’re bad at something, doesn’t mean your life has less value. And yet people value their success as the value of their life when it doesn’t value. It values your situation but it shouldn’t devalue you.

So, you can imagine telling the doctor, “Doc, I only came in second in this race-”

Brad Kearns:      Go work on that patient first. They’re more important.

Dave Rossi:         “Yeah, I came in second and I know these injuries are life threatening, but I’m really not that important because I came in second or third or fourth or whatever. And so, my life has less value. So, maybe you should work on them first.” How many people do you think have ever done that in the emergency room?

But people use life and death situations to actually appreciate the value of life. Right? And we should appreciate the value of life. I know it sounds super cliché and I teach a lot of tips on how to believe this and how to walk through life with this, but we don’t need a near death experience or a near death event to appreciate the value of life. Is back to that worn in grass. You can make the worn in grass pattern that life is enough, that I’m good enough because I’m here. I’m good enough because I have life, and I don’t need to make myself feel better or worse because I come in second place or third place or fourth place or first place. It doesn’t matter. My value is the same. I want to come in first, but I’m not devalued if I don’t. I mean, I think you understand that distinction.

Brad Kearns:      And applied to anything. You’re giving the race analogy, but it could go toward being a parent, being in the workplace. So, now if we’re going to accept this new paradigm, how do we reconcile with that idea that what got us here today was that competitive intensity and that work ethic and that little voice inside in the back of my head that says, “You’re not good enough unless you get out there and outwork your competitors by 10%.” Or all these notions that we share.

A lot of times, we even celebrate. Like, “I got to the top because I worked harder than anybody else. I got up an hour earlier and I took my magic potion drink and then I just kick some butt and I took on all challengers,” and all these great things where we’re forgetting about the happiness element and what the repercussions are of just being motivated by fear our whole life. So, how do we kind of ascend to the next level?

Dave Rossi:         Well, I think all these tips and tricks you talk about, like listening to music isn’t necessarily driven by fear, they’re actually driven by desire, and they’re driven by the love of wanting to excel at something. The love of the sport. Fatigue is real. We do have a mind, body connection, mind, body and spirit and these things are real. I mean, there is a physical aspect to us and a nonphysical aspect to us. These things working in balance and in tandem provide and produce a better whole than if they are not in balance. If they’re all excelling.

So, working out harder because you are motivated to beat somebody else and you make a game out of it, maybe you cut their picture out, you put it on a wall, “There is my competitor, I want to beat him.” That’s all fun. The difference is when you add the emotion to it, that you devalue yourself if you don’t beat that person.

I mean, using things for motivation is fun. That’s the fun of the sport. I mean, trash talking or all these things. It’s when you cross that line and you turn the application of fear on that distracts your performance, rather than enhances your performance.

This can be in any life situation. If you’re going into a business meeting, trying to close a deal. A business is one of those situations where people sense and they can smell fear. And you respond to fear, you respond to being heard. You respond to being defensive, you respond to the outcome. Most people are in jobs they don’t necessarily like. And so, they’re always fear-based driven jobs. And you don’t always have to respond to the things you don’t like about your job. Usually, you don’t like them because they trigger some fear in you that makes it unpleasurable.

But that again, is just the light of the vision or the vibration of what you’re hearing. You’re interpreting these words as being bad when in fact they can just be words. They don’t have to be bad words.

Brad Kearns:      Yeah. I was at like a retreat seminar thing, intensive weekend retreat for 12 hours every day. And I remember this skit where the presenter had someone stand up and he charged over to this guy and got six inches from his face and he said, “Do you know something, Bob?” You’re a green frog. And he screamed at the guy and a spit came out. And the guy started laughing and everybody in the room started laughing. And he’s like, “Wait a second, why are you laughing?” And he broke it down, broke it down. And it’s because, “Well, because I’m not a green frog.” Exactly, you’re not a green frog. So, when someone comes up and does the same thing and says, “You’re an asshole, why are you getting so bent out of shape?”

Dave Rossi:         Ego tells us we know ourselves by how we think we know ourselves and we define ourselves. So, if I said, “Hey, Brad, you’re a horrible pastry chef,” you’re going to go, “Okay.” But if I go, “Hey, Brad, you’re a horrible podcaster.” “Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.” If you actually don’t care about whether or not I view you as being good or bad, you can actually listen to what I’m saying. “Really, Dave, I understand you think I’m a bad podcaster. Why is that? I’d like to learn from that.”

Brad Kearns:      If my fingers are crossed behind my back, at first, that’s okay too. And I know I’ve like you suggest, fake it till you make it sometimes. And I know I can recall situations where I’m receiving critical feedback and I don’t like it. And I think the person’s full of shit, whatever it might’ve been, in a work situation or something. But I kept those fingers crossed behind my back and I was smiling and nodding my head and listening. And by just the mere act of doing so, by faking it until I made it, rather than getting defensive and bloating out exactly what was on my mind at that time, like, “Well, at least I’m … how dare you criticize my writing skills when you’re not even a writer?” But wait a second, “Is there something of value to be heard here?”

Dave Rossi:         Or what difference does it make? I can be off my rocker. Who am I to judge anything? The point is that when we … There’s a book called “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck”. Have you heard of that book?

Brad Kearns:      Fantastic – Mark Manson.

Dave Rossi:         When you actually don’t give a fuck, is when you can actually learn and listen and grow.

Brad Kearns:      That’s when you’re the most powerful.

Dave Rossi:         Why would we get upset? An insult is when someone calls us or tells us something that’s different from how we perceive ourselves. Am I allowed to think that you’re a horrible podcaster, right? Am I allowed to be stupid, right? Am I allowed to not know what I’m talking about? Yes. It doesn’t really matter. It shouldn’t devalue you. You’re not doing this podcast because you’re concerned about what I think. And yet, we get insulted when people call us something that hits near and dear to our heart.

Brad Kearns:      Okay, so why is it near and dear to our heart? Does that mean my ego and my self-esteem is wrapped up in what you think of me? I suppose.

Dave Rossi:         Well, the five tenants of ego are we feel value by what we have. We find value in ourselves based on what we do. We find value in ourselves based on what others think of us, and we find value in ourselves based on how we know ourselves. And the fifth one is we find value in the fact that we’re special and unique in this world.

That doesn’t mean you’re not great. It means you’re not special and unique in this world. We’re not. All of our values of life are the same. If we were locked in an elevator and only one of us could get out, it’d be an interesting debate to say who’s more important? I mean, the value of our lives are all the same. Certainly, there’s arguments that young kids have futures ahead of them, but ultimately life is life.

The point is that we get upset when we know ourself as something, and why do we know ourselves as these things? We attach to them. We were taught these things. We like these things about ourselves.

So, Eckhart Tolle has this great quote that says, “The less of you become, the more of you are.” So, when you begin to shed who you are or who you think you are, the real you comes out. So, if you forget that you’re this fantastic triathlete and you just wipe that belief off the face of the earth, just completely obliterate it. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to remember anything about triathlons or training. It means that you don’t feel any propensity to defend yourself if someone says, “Hey, you’re X, Y, and Z, or you sucked at this race and you should have done this in that race.”

You can say, “Oh, cool. I wonder why you think that. I’d like to understand why. What’s your background? Why do you think that? What information do you have? Maybe I can learn something from it.” Because you’re no longer lining it up with how you know yourself. It just is what it is. Does that make sense?

Brad Kearns:      Absolutely.

Dave Rossi:         It’s an important thing to forget who you are.

Brad Kearns:      You’re rising above again.

Dave Rossi:         In layman’s terms, yes. But when you forget who you are and you erase that, you don’t forget your memories or what you know, you just no longer know yourself as anything. And when someone asks you a question, the real you comes out, not the you who you think you are. “I’m Brad Kearns and I have to be funny because I know myself as funny, so I have to respond funny.”

When you forget anything about yourself, you’re just going to respond the way that feels natural. You’re just going to respond the way you want to respond. And if it’s funny, it’s funny. If it’s poignant, it’s poignant. It just is what it is. You don’t think about it. You respond with feeling, not with thinking.

So, Einstein said, the highest form of intelligence is intuition. So, when you begin to be who you are through your essence, without knowing who you are, without layering pretense or layering how you know yourself, that makes you feel good about yourself at night. So, when you sleep, you can say, “Hey, I’m good at this.” When you get rid of those things, your intuition takes over.

Brad Kearns:      What’s left?

Dave Rossi:         Your intuition, the essence of you, the real you. When you remove the false parts of you, the real you is there. And then all of your responses are going to be authentic and real. You’re not going to feel vulnerability because you don’t value yourself based on what people think. So, you’re allowed to be vulnerable. You’re allowed to be raw, you’re allowed to be authentic. You’re allowed to open yourself up, because you’re really not afraid of being called a bad triathlete, because it really doesn’t matter to you. You did it because you love it. That makes sense?

Brad Kearns:      Yeah. So, regarding the vulnerability, because a lot of times we misinterpret what that means, and I think the first basic definition that’s been bantered about is lack of protection or something. We’re vulnerable to an attack in the alley because it’s dark and our cell phone battery died or whatever. But really we’re trying to get a more nuanced definition. Brené Brown does great work here to talk about-

Dave Rossi:         Yeah, I think vulnerability is really key. I think vulnerability is opening yourself up for observation and for judgment and for ridicule and those things. And vulnerability is being at a week time in our life, a weak moment. Doing something bad and coughing up to it and say, ’”Hey I did this.”

A lot of times people obfuscate and they just can’t quite get there. They can’t quite accept those weak moments in themselves. And me too. I’ve had weak moments. There were situations I did something that I wasn’t proud of. I had reasons why I did it. My ego kicked in. And then once I did it, “Hey, I’m going to open my chest and be all vulnerable. And hey, I did this and I’m sorry, and it was wrong and this is kind of how it happened. There’s no excuse for it, but these are how the stars lined up and I owe you an apology.”

Being vulnerable is being at a weak moment. And what does it take to be at a weak moment? An incredible amount of strength, which is such a paradox, actually. And then once we’re vulnerable, what happens to us? We become stronger. It takes strength to be weak and the byproduct is strength.

So, we all have a hard time being vulnerable because we think it devalues us and think that it’s a sign of rejection or it’s a sign of lower valuation of our lives. But when we’re on a different currency, when the currency for valuation of life is life, and I use Viktor Frankl a lot. I’m sure you’ve heard of him. The meaning of life is a life has meaning based on his research as an Auschwitz survivor.

The difference between what made prisoners live and die was their belief that their lives had meaning, meaning and purpose. And when we use that currency rather than the currency of I have to win, to be meaningful, then you’re allowed to be vulnerable. You’re allowed to race harder, you’re allowed to train harder. You’re allowed to train harder because you’re not concerned about rejection. You’re just going to do it because you love it.

Brad Kearns:      You have no fears to hold you back. And also that fear, I think going back to that argument that it was really working well for McEnroe and the idea that these emotions charge us up and bring us to a higher level of performance or get us through the day and grinding through a difficult career track. They literally require energy. So, they take energy away from your ultimate peak performance goal, your vision and your purpose and your values and things.

Dave Rossi:         Right. But if someone came to me and said, “I need fear to survive, great, okay. That works for you. Great.” Theoretically it doesn’t work. Theoretically, it’s not the way it works.

Brad Kearns:      It’s just a dispersion of energy into the fear category.

Dave Rossi:         I’m not going to tell anybody what they’re doing is wrong. To me, everyone’s way of doing things is right. I may not agree with it, and I can cite examples why I think it’s wrong (I shouldn’t use the word “wrong”). I can set examples why I think it’s not sustainable.

Brad Kearns:      Less effective than something else or whatever.

Dave Rossi:         But if it works for them and they want to hold onto it and that’s what their vision is, great. I don’t have any power to change people’s minds. Only they can change their own mind. I’m not in the business of changing people’s minds. I’m in the business of helping people connect dots of information they already have. People know that when they lie at bed at night that they have value as a person.

When the voices in their head or the chatter in their head, the quiet, calm, shy ones, the one that gets overtaken by everything else, by our mind and our fears, that voice knows that we are happy to be alive. And when we have near death experiences or near death scares, right? That voice becomes a little louder, and we’re happy to be alive. And that voice doesn’t come up very often unless it’s tickled or triggered or asked to come to light.

But we all have that underlying feeling inside of us. It just gets trampled on by this giant mechanism in our head, which is the brain and our mind and our fears and all these mechanisms that run full time, 24 hours a day.

Brad Kearns:      Our thoughts are the source of all our pain, Carrie Sisson likes to repeat that line in spite of her spiritual psychology practice. And if you realize, it’s not what happens to you, but it’s what you think about what happens to you. It’s the ultimate pain and suffering. And then these wonderful examples of people in a concentration camp who’re keeping their spirits alive and wow. Yeah, whatever it’s taking to wake us up.

I really have a goal of waking myself up without having to be that guy in the car accident or that got burned or lost at sea for 827 days. I just want to read that story and go, “Wow.”

Dave Rossi:         I’m so happy.

Brad Kearns:      I’m glad to be on land myself right now, but not as glad as that guy. But we got to pull inspiration from these places. Otherwise, we’re just going to get distracted and go into a tailspin, really.

Dave Rossi:         Or change currencies.

Brad Kearns:      Change currencies.

Dave Rossi:         Change the currency that life is enough. And when you believe that, your life will change. And there’s a famous philosopher named Epictetus, a Greek philosopher who said, “It’s not events that make you unhappy, it’s your belief in them that do.”

When you believe that philosophy or that quote, it is true. “I lost, I didn’t come in first. I lost the interview. I lost the job. My spouse left the towel on the floor. I’m so mad that the towel is on the floor.” It’s not the event of the towel that made you upset. It’s your belief that the towel shouldn’t be there. It’s the belief that your spouse should have removed it at your request.

Brad Kearns:      Or that that represents a complete lack of consideration for who I am as a person who I’m a neat freak. And it’s not about the towel, but it’s about you’re disrespect of me represented by the towel.

Dave Rossi:         And ego would cause you to say, “Hey, gosh, John, why is this towel here. What’s wrong with you? You can’t get it straight? What’s wrong with you?” And I was working with this couple in a similar situation and she’s like, “He’s got papers all over the house. He leaves them here and he leaves them there.”

I said, “Well, did you apologize to him and give him compassion?” “What do you mean? He’s leaving things all over the place.” I said, “Well, do you think he’s doing it on purpose?” “Well, of course he’s not doing it on purpose, but it doesn’t clean it up.” “Well, have you ever said, ‘I’m so sorry your mind is so full. How can I help you? Because you get distracted by leaving things around?’ This is your spouse.” Have compassion for the fact that his brain is so busy, he’s leaving things lying around.

Brad Kearns:      That reminds me of John Gottman, the relationship therapist. And he says that in every occasion, as a couple, as a partnership, you’re either a team or you’re not a team. And you can solve anything and address anything as a team, even if it is, “Hey, you’re being a real jerk right now. So, let’s solve this issue as a team.” The ultimate thing that you would be opponents or adversaries, one person’s being unfair, unreasonable, ridiculous, emotional. But you can just, like you described, “Hey, let’s, let’s solve this problem of you being a major asshole right now together as a team.” And it’s possible.

Dave Rossi:         I mean, not to say, I’ve been called an asshole many times in my marriage, probably rightfully so. But the point is she’s right. I can disagree and she can be right.

Brad Kearns:      She’s right because she thinks so.

Dave Rossi:  So, when you value on different currency, I’m not devalued because she called me a name. I’m not devalued because she’s upset at me, the only emotion left is love and compassion. So, it’s, “I see that you think I’m an asshole, I’m really sorry. It wasn’t my intention. How could I help the situation going forward? Because I really don’t want you to think that. It wasn’t my intention.” “But you did X, Y and Z.” “Well, I didn’t do it to hurt you. I understand how it did.” “You’re right. I don’t agree with you, but I’m happy to solve your problem with this.”

If you look at your relationship that the other person is never wrong, you’re allowed to disagree. But if they’re never wrong and you respect their view, then you get into a situation where you’re working together, like you said, as a team. When you disagree so much so that it becomes a format to change their mind or a format to show that they’re wrong, then disagreeing has gone too far. It’s a simple, “I don’t agree, but I’m happy to help you.”

Most of us can’t do that because our ego wants to be right. The ego or the false self finds comfort in being right. It finds value in being right. It finds value in the way others look at us, and one of the three tenants or the five tenants is we know ourselves by how others view us. So, if others view us as being wrong, we’re viewed less valuable, so we have to be right.

“No, no, no, no. I said 3:00.” “No, you said 4:00.” “I said 3:00.” “No, no, no, no. I said three.” “You always make a mistake and you always do this. You weren’t listening.” I was listening fine,” and now and an argument ensues. The right discussion is, “I understand that you feel I said 3:00. I thought I said four. I’m really sorry for how this happened. How can I make up for it?”

Brad Kearns:      Gee, we have a problem. How can we solve it?

Dave Rossi:         There’s no value in arguing who’s right and who’s wrong. One person might hook up to a lie detector and believe they said three and the other person might hook up to a lie detector and believe they heard four. It’s entirely possible.

Brad Kearns:      Of course.

Dave Rossi:         So, why are we arguing?

Brad Kearns:      Or they just have different beliefs about pro-choice, same sex marriage, you name it, you name it, right? “I’m right and oh you’re right too? Oh, we’re both right. Oh, what are we going to do?”

Dave Rossi:         Yeah, we both lie to be right. We don’t need to actually convince the other person that we’re right. There’s no value served in that. And I always tell people-

Brad Kearns:      Well, then there’s no value served in that, but we do it all the freaking time and we feel like high fiving ourselves after we win an argument. So, that’s the part that’s really disturbing. And I look back over my own life and see those times where you revel in conflict or in something that came out in your favor and you were right and the other person had to profusely apologize, whether in the workplace or wherever it is.

So, I think it’s harder to see the problem there, because you can say, “Yeah, this guy bailed on me. He didn’t write down the time and I was right.” And so, you don’t see your contribution, which is that that worked up victorious gloating when really you’re not operating as a team accordingly, if that’s how it’s going down.

Dave Rossi:         It depends what your goal is.

Brad Kearns:      Yeah, that’s right. It depends what your goal is. You want to win every argument or not get into an argument.

Dave Rossi:         If you’re a lawyer and your goal is to win the argument, okay, you did your job, right? But if your goal is to have a healthy relationship with this person or coworker, then beating them to submission to make them admit that they were wrong, how are they going to feel about you? Ultimately, you’re going to create a wall or build a wall between both of you.

Even when we do beat people into submission and get them to admit they’re wrong, we always do kind of have an underlying feeling of guilt that we shouldn’t have done that. And that other person takes the high road, we say, “Oh shoot, I should’ve taken the high road first. Oh, I know I should have said …” Right? I mean, you’re not creating peace and harmony in the universe by just making somebody submit. This is not the UFC, right?

Brad Kearns:      Well, a lot of times the workplace is because the currency is that power and that wielding that power and being able to behave in a manner that’s not showing that you’re a team player just because you’re the boss.

Dave Rossi:         And I understand that fact, and I think what it comes down to, and this is a very difficult thing to grasp, and it’s something that has to be grasped through actually living and seeing it. When you do act gracious, when you are gracious … let me back up. When someone told me to have more humility, I didn’t even know what that word meant. And I would say things like, “Oh, I have to pretend that I’m not very good at my job, when I know I’m good at my job. Like what are you talking about? I have to be more humble?” “You need to be a little more gracious.” “What does that mean? I have to act like I’m thankful? I worked hard for this.” Right?

But when you go through some of the transformations that I’ve been through and you actually are thankful, and you actually are humble, and you actually don’t need to argue and be right, and you come from a place of love and compassion and cooperation and connection, so many more doors open up for you. You’re so much more successful when you are those things.

So, again, it’s kind of a paradox where being vulnerable and weak takes strength and the byproduct is strength again. People feel like they have to fight for every inch. There was a movie I think exemplify this great – was called “Molly’s Game”. Ever watched that movie? She was that card game and she just believed in something and she went to the judge and she said, “I did it.” I don’t remember all the specifics. And the judge said, “You know what? I appreciate your honesty.” And he gave her like the lightest sentence ever.

This happens when we do stick up for what we believe in; kindness, compassion, graciousness, humility, helping others, it doesn’t serve us to beat people up and make them say that they’re wrong. Even if the goal is to fight for a job and compete for the next job and make the other person look bad, we don’t necessarily have to do that. Our success isn’t going to rely on being conniving or cutting corners or making the other person look bad. Because you’re going to be looked at better, you’re going to be rewarded by actually being authentic and actually having these connections and actually exuding love and compassion and kindness, while being good at your job at the same time. You’re going to be rewarded for that.

Brad Kearns:      Hey, that’s a beautiful summary. I like that Dave. Thank you.

Dave Rossi:         You’re welcome. It was a great podcast.

Brad Kearns:      Tell me about this Dave Rossi Global thing you got going on. How do we learn more about you and connect with what you’re doing?

Dave Rossi:         Well, we’re doing lots of things. We’re doing workshops overseas. We have a workshop in Italy in September. We have a second one in South Africa in March. These end up being like vacation type retreats. We do teach a couple of classes at the Bay Club Courtside in Los Gatos. One of them is called “Body by Belief”.

A lot of the things you can find about what we’re doing is on daverossiglobal.com. Also on Facebook at @daverossiglobal. I put quotes up on Monday, usually, inspiring-

Brad Kearns:      Quotes are great. Worth signing up just for that. Go hit the like button. It’s cool.

Dave Rossi:         It took me a while to do these things because I definitely practice what I preach. But you write these things and you go, “Is this any good? Are people going to like this?” But you know what, at the end of the day, it’s what I believe in. It’s things that have inspired me and helped me change my life. And I don’t get a lot of feedback and then I do, and the feedback’s amazing. So, I don’t do it for the feedback, but it’s great to hear that … my goal now is to help people. And as much as I can do that and feel that humility and graciousness, I’m there, I’m in.

Brad Kearns:      Dave Rossi Global, check it out. Thanks for joining us. We’ve got to get your back, man. We got way more to talk about in my notes and my pull outs from the seminar. So, we’ll check back in. Keep doing what you’re doing. I love it.

Dave Rossi:         Happy to do it. Thanks Brad.

Brad Kearns:      Oh, by, I get to talk about my Almost Heaven Sauna. This has been a life changing acquisition that gives me easy and constant access to one of the most health boosting therapeutic treatments imaginable. The sauna, yes, of course, it’s been a cultural tradition in Scandinavia and other cold weather countries for hundreds of years. Maybe it’s your favorite part of your health club visit or your ski trip vacation resort. But what about if you had a personal sauna in your own home, in your garage or your backyard?

Check out almostheaven.com. They make these super attractive barrel-shaped saunas made of thick, solid wood. None of this fake stuff. It’s super easy to assemble. They ship it in a kit to your door, you watch the video, you put it together, and get an electrician to wire it, and you’re good to go. Turn the timer on and 30 minutes later, you are in the hot, hot, dry up to 180 degrees Fahrenheit. And that is the magic zone to get the vaunted health benefits of sauna exposure.

You may have heard of these highly lauded heat shock proteins. They deliver profound benefits at the cellular level to boost immune function, cognitive function, cardiovascular function, improve muscular response to exercise and recovery from intense exercise, and of course longevity. Go to foundmyfitness.com, Rhonda Patrick, and download her report for the extreme scientific details of how beneficial sauna is.

I have this classic outdoor pinnacle model. It’s six foot by six foot, fits four adults sitting comfortably or two adults reclining and instantly going into napping mode. I know man, when you get in there, no matter what kind of day you had or what mood you’re in, you will instantly feel chill. And this is called a hormetic stressor. A positive natural stressor that creates an adaptive response. So, with regular sauna use, you become more resilient to all forms of stress that you experience in daily life.

Same with my cold plunge into the cold freezer. It delivers these similar health and hormonal benefits that will make it an absolutely essential part of a relaxing stress balanced day. Please, go check them out. It will change your life. And you can get these beautiful six by six or a larger model or even smaller for a surprisingly affordable price due to the direct relationship. You order it on almostheaven.com, they ship it to your door. I can’t say enough about it. I’m so excited. This sounds like a commercial – okay, it is a commercial.

But let me tell you, beyond the health benefits, this is a social centerpiece. It’s a place to relax and chill and splash the water on the rocks and get a burst of steam. So, go pay a quick visit to almostheaven.com. Warning, you’re going to be tempted.

Hi, it’s Brad to talk about Ancestral Supplements. Question for you, how is it going with the critically important health objective of consuming some of the most nutrient-dense foods on the planet? Namely bone marrow, collagen and nose to tail organ meats like liver, heart, kidney, and more? Yeah, how is it going? Pretty poorly? How did I guess?

I have to admit the same. I’m sorry, folks. I’ve known for a long time since Dr. Cate Shanahan in her wonderful book “Deep Nutrition”, emphasized that this is a sorely missing element of the modern diet, but a huge part of the ancestral diet that made humans the healthy creatures that they are today.

Now, we have a fantastic and convenient solution from Ancestral Supplements, because they make New Zealand-sourced bone marrow and nose to tail organ meats, liver, heart, kidney, pancreas, spleen, and more, delivered in simple convenient gelatin capsules. Oh my gosh, I love this product and I love what this company is all about. Go on their website, ancestralsupplements.com. Read one of the most impactful and inspiring mission statements you’ll ever see from a company.

Listen to how they describe their product. “Traditional peoples, native Americans and early ancestral healers believe that eating the organs from a healthy animal would strengthen and support the health of the corresponding organ in the individual. The traditional way of treating a person with a weak heart was to feed the person the heart of a healthy animal.”

Sound hokey to you? I’m sorry, but this is extremely well supported with scientific evidence confirming that these are the foods that are DNA-evolved with and are sorely missing from the modern food supply. That’s why Ancestral Supplements says that they’re putting back in what the modern world has left out to return people back to strength, health and happiness. And hey, if you’re a clean-living person that kind of doesn’t like the idea of popping a bunch of synthetic vitamins in the name of health, going over to GNC and buying 12 bottles, this is an entirely different story.

This is real food packaged conveniently so that you don’t have to worry about your liver making skills or how to best cook a kidney. Just swallow the pills, man. I throw them in my smoothie every morning. So, I’m taking about four or five capsules of the various Ancestral Supplement products. I’m throwing down the beef organs, the beef liver, the bone marrow. There are so many other ones on their absolutely fabulous and educational website. Thanks for trying it. Ancestralsupplements.com, you will love it.


Let’s take a breather and talk sleep, stress management, and relationships tips.

Getting your diet and exercise routine dialed is certainly an essential entry point to leading a long, healthy, happy life. But it’s only a portion of the big picture. Sleep is arguably more important than any other lifestyle practice, because if its compromised than other bets are off. In hectic, high-tech modern life, our stress management skills are in higher demand than any other time in the history of humanity. Finally, relationships are what make the world go round, but we often neglect them in favor of tangible objectives like filling our plate with healthy food, filling our logbook with impressive workouts, and filling our bank account with money.

With sleep, the biggest objective is to minimize artificial light and digital stimulation after dark. This interferes with your circadian rhythm where you are programmed to slow down, wind down, release melatonin and get sleepy in the hours after dark. It’s also important to create a quiet, cool, clutter free, dark sleeping environment. With stress management, our main objective today is to manage our use of technology so it doesn’t overwhelm our lives. Give your off button a good workout every single day, your health depends on it. Suffering from FOMO—Fear Of Missing Out? Don’t worry, you’re not that important (unless you’re my sister delivering babies at night, then you can leave your phone on. Otherwise, power down!)


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Speaker: Brad Kearns

Brad Kearns:Welcome to the Get Over Yourself Podcast. This is Brad Kearns. 

Welcome to part two breather show; Long Cuts to a Longer Life. We’re going to talk about sleep, stress management, relationships, little tidbits of wonderful topics that we cover in detail on other shows on the Get Over Yourself Podcast. Here we go.

If we’re talking about sleep and lifestyle today, one thing that’s become a huge concern of mine is taking control of this tech addiction. Oh my goodness. Doing my podcast on the Get Over Yourself Podcast with Elisha Goldstein, the mindfulness expert, and him explaining to me how when we do a conscious act over and over, like reaching for our phone to see if we have any text messages, what happens is it gets wired into habit, into unconscious habit. That’s when it becomes truly destructive and takes control over your life and harms your life rather than enhances your life. It increases stress. It ruins your brain function, it promotes ADHD.

So, first we got to talk about just taking control, man. Using the off button, using discipline, being proactive with your use of technology rather than reactive. I have some short breather shows – that’s the name of them on the Get Over Yourself Podcast, where I’m going to talk even further about tech addiction, taking control, some tips and tricks and techniques to do better with your technology use.

Especially my goal of not having the email inbox dominate my work day. I admit to this being a problem. I’m supposed to be focusing and producing original content, and I seem to be engaging with email on and off throughout the day. So, really want to work on that and pick some windows of time where I’m shutting the box down, the inbox down, disconnecting from the outside world for a bit, for a while. I think the world will be okay.

Anyway, then further into sleep, we have those big picture ideals, which number one is to align your sleep habits as close as possible to your circadian rhythm. We are genetically wired. We are optimized to function on light and dark cycles, corresponding with the rising and the setting of the sun. We have been this way for two and a half million years. All living things on earth have a circadian rhythm. And now, for the first time, since the invention of the light bulb; Thomas Edison, and then Steve Jobs and Netflix and all the wonderful people that brought us technology of modern life, we have the ability to override our circadian rhythm by introducing the often harmful element of artificial light and digital stimulation after dark.

So, our number one goal objective on the sleep issue is to minimize our exposure to artificial light and digital stimulation after dark. When it gets dark in your environment, whatever time of year it is, wherever you live, it is time to tone down. Tone down the lighting of your indoor scene, get a pair of UV protection, yellow or orange tinted lenses that you can see through plenty indoors at night. But these protect you from the harmful elements of the blue light exposure that come from indoor lighting and from indoor screens. It will protect you against the harmful effects of the blue light spectrum. It’s called blue light. It’s not colored blue to your eye, but it’s called the blue light spectrum, the part of the ultraviolet spectrum represented by harsh indoor lighting from a screen or from a light bulb. And when you expose yourself to this spectrum of light in the evening, it interferes with melatonin production. It keeps you up when you should be getting sleepy and transitioning into a good night’s sleep.

So, if you have dark, mellow evenings of minimal digital stimulation or perhaps quiet conversation, a stroll around the block with the dog wearing your yellow or orange lenses, reading, playing a game of chess, doing some foam rolling, getting your screen entertainment done earlier in the night rather than right before bed, at the very least, you will now set yourself up for a good functioning dim light melatonin onset circumstance. That’s when your blood stream gets flooded with the sleep hormone. Melatonin makes you feel sleepy, it makes you feel tired. You start yawning, you go take a nice cold plunge or cold shower and jump into bed and get a good night’s sleep. You have set yourself up for getting a good night’s sleep by minimizing that digital stimulation.

If instead, you are blasting your eyeballs with screen light to catch up on your emails from 10:00 PM to 11:00 PM, and then trying to go to sleep, you have filled your bloodstream with stress hormones rather than melatonin, and you’re going to have trouble getting to sleep and winding down. Of course, shift workers know this very well, where it’s just difficult to wind down if you’ve been exposed to artificial light for hours and hours, and then ask your body to go to sleep.

So, that’s the number one goal, is to make evenings dark and mellow. Your sleep environment is very important. So, you want a bedroom which is absolutely pitch dark. That is the recommendation from sleep experts. You want it to be cool in temperature. We sleep better when things are cool. So, making sure that your air conditioning, your heater is accordingly set, maybe sleeping with the windows open at the right times a year. Minimizing your covers rather than getting yourself warm in the clothing and covers because that might not be optimal for cycling through all the phases of sleep overnight. And of course, your environment has to be quiet and low stress.

So, if you have outside noises that you’re vulnerable to, get a sound machine, get an air purifier, anything that will make a nice noise canceling situation so that outside sounds aren’t disruptive. You know what I mean by that? So, if you had the fan running all night or I love to have my UV negative ion generating air filter running at kind of a high sound – you have to get used to it I guess. But when that sound’s running at a steady hum all night, you are not so sensitive to any outside sound that would be disruptive and sudden. So, it’s a noise cancelling device.

Also, getting good at napping. Because when we do fall short of optimal evening sleep, we are in a state of sleep deficit. This affects our cognitive function, decision making, emotional control, all that great stuff. Naps can do a wonderful job in a short time, helping to refresh the sodium potassium pumps in your brain neurons. So that you will experience an increase in cognitive function after even a brief nap. I have made myself become a professional napper through repeated exposure and practice.

I talk to so many people that say, “Oh, I can’t take a nap. I’m just not a napper. It doesn’t happen for me. I just lay there.” Guess what? You have to practice a little bit. I found a wonderful app that I’ve been using for years called “Rainmaker Pro” – anything like that that generates natural sounds. And so, when I push the button and turn on these raindrop sounds, there’s like 50 different choices; medium strength, hitting a window pane, heavy strength hitting the street (oh my gosh), rain forest, misty – you can choose whatever sound you want, and as soon as I turn on that raindrop sound, because I’ve done it hundreds of times, I’m teaching my body that it’s time to go for a nap.

Yes, if you can get a quiet, dark environment, that’s great. If it’s just your car in the parking lot, throw a blindfold on, do the best you can. Just about everyone has the opportunity to go find a suitable napping stop for 20 minutes in the afternoon.

Love the message from Arianna Huffington, founder of the Huffington Post, leading media personality in the world. She’s so big on sleeping right now because of her transformation in life. She titled a book called “Thrive” and another one called “The Sleep Revolution”, where she’s putting sleep at the forefront of importance for being a productive peak performance happy person. And what she did when she was at Huffington Post, was that she purposely left the curtains open to her glass, walled office, put a “Do not disturb” sign on the door. And people could walk by and watch her or see her taking a nap, because she wanted to be accepted in the corporate culture and make a presentation of that nature to say, “Yes, I’m asleep, don’t bother me.” But guess what? You can do it yourself too.

So, try to find the opportunity to take naps, especially if you notice a decline in cognitive function during that natural low in your circadian rhythm in the afternoon. And oh my gosh, I am highly sensitive to this because I will notice times of day when I zone out, space out, whatever. I start clicking on YouTube videos or clicking on the next article below the article that I wanted to read, and then get back to my peak cognitive task. And when I notice myself slipping in my attention and my discipline slipping, I realize that it’s time for a nap because my cognitive function has declined. I’ve been going too long without a break and so forth.

So, getting that quiet, dark, evening experience, napping when you need to, alignment with your circadian rhythm. Let’s move on to relationships.

I mean, come on, this is what makes the world go round. What’s more important than our interactions with other human beings, family, friends, romantic partner, other loved ones, coworkers, people that we encounter in everyday life, trying to make the world a better place as the number one objective for all of us on the planet. And so, some quick tips – again, getting deep into this in our relationship shows on the Get Over Yourself channel.

How about be open, honest, authentic, and vulnerable in your communications. If you’re holding onto stuff, if you’re putting on an act or not revealing your true self, you are most assuredly compromising your health. There’s all kinds of scientific study to reference here. That emotional pain, emotional disturbances, holding onto things, bottling things up will indeed affect your physical health.

On my show, Get Over Yourself Podcast with Elle Russ, she described her battle with thyroid and her healing naturally. And she made the observation that anytime you feel choked up like you want to say something but you can’t, you’re refraining, you’re in a dysfunctional relationship where you can’t speak your mind, whatever it is – that is associated with thyroid trouble. And people who have dysfunctional thyroid, thyroid disease, often relate that yes, indeed, they do feel choked up, restrained from expressing themselves. And where does that choking up happen? Right there where the thyroid is located.

Okay, and you don’t believe in this woo-woo medicine stuff, you might want to open your mind a bit, because every single day, we have more and more scientific research and breaking news that’s bringing this mind, body connection closer together.

When I was an athlete, I was treated frequently by my good friend and amazing natural healer, Dr. Mike Greenberg, now based in Atlanta, Georgia. Go see him if you’re in the Atlanta area, he can change your life. And he did a technique called “neuro emotional anti-sabotage technique”. The thinking being that we have stored emotional memories that affect our current health and mindset today.

So, he would engage in muscle, nerve, and reflex testing and subconscious thoughts going into my ear while he’s testing the muscle firing in my shoulder against resistance, and identifying these stored emotional memories that were affecting my peak performance as an athlete. And sometime the connection was completely random or inexplicable to my conscious mind, but something was going on in my subconscious that was generating fears for me when I was on the swimming starting line.

He treated Olympic champions, Olympic gold medal world record holding athletes and discovered – they discovered together during treatment, that they had things like fear of success. Because a lot of times when you succeed, you don’t have that compelling goal anymore and you have a letdown. So, you have to work through your fear of success. You have to work through your fear of failure. You have to work through your dysfunctional childhood, so that it doesn’t affect you in everyday, every single life. And healers can help with that tremendously. So, be open and try something out. Read some books, listen to some more shows.

Now, when we say open, honest, authentic, vulnerable in communications, we also have to understand that there’s a balance here between unloading every single thought and emotion that comes into your mind or your heart, unloading that onto the planet. So, if you get cut off in traffic, you can either honk your horn and press and lay on it for 12 seconds straight, flip off everybody that gets in your way. Or you can try to regulate your emotions and therefore have a healthier, less stressful life and contribute that to others on the planet who get to be spared your wrath because you’re a loose cannon at all times.

Kris Gage writing on the medium.com, wonderful articles about relationships. She argues that emotional control and emotional self-stability are the number one relationship attributes and they are so important that you don’t even need to talk about anything unless you have emotional control and emotional self-stability.

Pursuant to that goal, how about Mia Moore’s insight to not sweat the small stuff? And her talking on our first show about how she made a conscious choice years ago, especially in relationships, not to sweat the small stuff, to let things go. Healthy, long term romantic relationships are known to focus on the positive and deemphasize the negative. That’s results from scientific study. So, not sweating the small stuff. Pretty simple, right?

Furthering that thought, you have to realize that you are the judge of what small stuff and what’s not. Of course, we can have deal breakers in relationships. So, it’s not small stuff if someone comes home in a substance influenced state and start smashing things, that’s not small stuff. We can’t let that go. We’re allowed to have deal breakers and limits. But generally speaking, we here, in comfortable modern life, we have enough food, we have clothing, we have shelter, we have our health. Whatever we have that we can be thankful for. Boy, that’s really something to emphasize, and it’s always possible to adopt a perspective of gratitude. Be thankful for what you have and where you are today rather than constantly stressing about what could be better, what’s not perfect.

So, speaking of partnerships, how about some tips for your comportment or your disposition in a partnership? Number one insight, John Gottman, you’re either a team or not a team in every interaction, in every situation. There is no black and white here. You’re either acting as a team or you’re acting as adversaries. So, be careful with your communication. Hone your emotional control and emotional self-stability and face life as a team.

Harville Hendrix – three rules for healthy winning relationships. A sense of safety; you can say what’s on your mind. You’re not going to get come back and bit in the ass by it later. A policy of zero negativity and a policy of dispensing constant affirmations, which helps contribute to that goal of safety.

Esther Perel says, “Treat your partner like a good client. Take nothing for granted.” We know how we suck up the good clients and realize that we could lose them at any time, so we treat them with great respect and priority. You can do the same thing with your long term partner, rather than taking things for granted. And listen to the relationship advice tidbits show on Get Over Yourself. Lots of good stuff. Man, the website itself is a great resource -bradkearns.com/getoveryourself. Yeah, lots of notes on all these shows as well as being able to listen to the shows.

So, finally, we go to stress management. And I’m remembering my conversation with Dave Rossi about fears and anxieties. Anytime you experience fear and anxiety, acknowledge, accept that you’re in this state and forgive yourself. Then, redirect your thoughts to your values and your vision. Sounds simple, but it’s so powerful. Are you worried about your kid getting accepted into whatever freaking college they applied to? Hey, redirect to your values and your vision as a parent. You do the best you can. You be happy. You learn and grow from life experience. You dispense that message to your kids. Whatever happens, it’s going to be okay. You’re going to work through it.

You’re worried about your business not making payroll this month? Again, redirect to your values and your vision. You work hard, you try to solve problems, you do the best you can. Maybe it sounds a little cheesy to be flippant about these major life worries and fears – but worries, fears and anxiety never accomplish anything. All they do is put you in an anxious state of mind where you’re more capable of making bad decisions.

So, that’s one element of stress management that I really love to think about a lot, because we all are presented with fears and anxieties every single day. You have the ability to redirect your thoughts to your values and Vision. Carrie Sisson, spiritual psychology world says, “Your thoughts are the source of all your pain.”

Next, tone down that tech obsession that I mentioned briefly at the outset, because it’s very stressful. Steve Blank, Stanford professor, former video game inventor and video game addict, said in his article on the Medium, “The devices started out as tools and ended up as drugs for most people. App manufacturers are incentivized to make us addicted.” I’ll contend that a ton of social media is actually a lot like OxyContin. And a study in the same Medium article referencing a study published in the Journal of PLOS One said, “Digital addictions can shrink the amount of white matter at certain brain sites creating changes similar to those seen in alcohol, caffeine and methamphetamine addictions.” So, that’s one of our ultimate stress management objectives.

Finally, how about engaging in self-care rituals every day? I noticed that Mia Moore is very diligent in keeping these regular standing appointments for nails, hair, massage. And for me, like keeping that many appointment I’d probably be too stressed driving around trying to remember. But you realize that when you’re going to an appointment, it’s a great form of self-care where you get to relax, leave your problems, concerns behind from whatever you were doing. Whether it was carting kids around or just a day in the workplace and go get your hair done.

I have my videos and frequent discussion about my morning routine, which starts with a flexibility, mobility, core, strengthening sequence. You can look on YouTube; Brad Kearns Morning Routine, and see what I do every single morning. I’ve made this a fixture in my life because I’m a guy who needs patterns and consistency. Otherwise, I’ll be too scattered. So, I do the morning flexibility, mobility drill every time without fail. And then I go jump into the cold plunge chest freezer. That’s also on YouTube. Search for it. It’s changed my life. It’s super awesome and it gives me a meditative experience and getting every single day started with a proactive ritual that takes discipline and focus and hopefully sets me up for a day of discipline and focus. It’s not magic, but I think it’s a big help. So, these self-care rituals, so important.

My show with Dave Kobrine on Get Over Yourself, talking about in detail, his super awesome, morning routine of movement and cold exposure and sauna exposure and physical exercise, every single day, just sets him up. He says he heads into the office feeling like a million bucks. My man, Robby Bobby Bennett, swimming in place for about 15 minutes with a tether in his pool year round. Even in the cold winter months, he’s in there in 50 degrees, something water and building up his tolerance for cold exposure and getting a nice workout. And getting some time in water, where his other senses, he doesn’t have to listen or talk or get into the hectic routine of daily life. He’s got that fixture in his day.

Same with my running buddies who are now, oh my gosh, guys were into this thing for about 40 years since we first started running in high school. Steve died, Steve Kobrine, still putting in the miles pretty much every single day. Finding the time to get out there. Whether it’s a short run – if Dr. Stevie has to go to urgent care all day or a long run on his weeks off where he’s going 10, 12, 14, 15 miles. Just enjoying the scenery. Not worrying about his time or his next upcoming race or his peak performance goals, but just making it a self-care ritual. That’s an important part of his life.

How about you? Do you have time for self-care or are you too busy with your high performing job of many weekly hours? I believe that anyone has time for some simple basic morning rituals, self-care of some kind or another that works for you. Figure it out and make a commitment to do it every single day. If you think you don’t have time, you can make time, because studies show we check our phone 150 times per day. We consume digital entertainment to the average number of several hours per day. I know with the Kaiser Family Foundation statistics that kids, youth consume digital entertainment for six point something hours every single day. They’re in front of a screen for six hours a day. Adults are probably right there. Maybe even beyond.

Oh, American Family Foundation research shows that the average American family has the television on for 40 hours a week. Ouch, man. That’s like a full time job to be watching TV every single week in the average American home. So, tell me you don’t have time for a 10-minute morning ritual or the like. Make some more hair appointments. Get your nails done. Make a standing appointment every three weeks. Book your massages, make a commitment, buy a package in advance, do something for yourself. These are long cuts to a longer life. Thank you for listening to the show.

Oh, by, I get to talk about my Almost Heaven sauna. This has been a life changing acquisition that gives me easy and constant access to one of the most health boosting therapeutic treatments imaginable. The sauna, yes, of course, it’s been a cultural tradition in Scandinavia and other cold weather countries for hundreds of years. Maybe it’s your favorite part of your health club visit or your ski trip vacation resort. But what about if you had a personal sauna in your own home, in your garage or your backyard?

Check out almostheaven.com. They make these super attractive barrel-shaped saunas made of thick, solid wood. None of this fake stuff. It’s super easy to assemble. They ship it in a kit to your door, you watch the video, you put it together, get an electrician to wire it, and you’re good to go. Turn the timer on and 30 minutes later, you are in the hot, hot, dry up to 180 degrees Fahrenheit. And that is the magic zone to get the vaunted health benefits of sauna exposure.

You may have heard of these highly lauded heat shock proteins. They deliver profound benefits at the cellular level to boost immune function, cognitive function, cardiovascular function, improve muscular response to exercise and recovery from intense exercise, and of course longevity. Go to foundmyfitness.com, Rhonda Patrick, and download her report for the extreme scientific details of how beneficial sauna is.

I have this classic outdoor pinnacle model. It’s six foot by six foot, fits four adults sitting comfortably or two adults reclining and instantly going into napping mode. I know man, when you get in there, no matter what kind of day you had or what mood you’re in, you will instantly feel chill. And this is called a hormetic stressor. A positive natural stressor that creates an adaptive response. So, with regular sauna use, you become more resilient to all forms of stress that you experience in daily life.

Same with my cold plunge into the cold freezer. It delivers these similar health and hormonal benefits that will make it an absolutely essential part of a relaxing stress balanced day. Please, go check them out. It will change your life. And you can get these beautiful six by six or larger model or even smaller for a surprisingly affordable price due to the direct relationship. You order it on almostheaven.com, they ship it to your door. I can’t say enough about it. I’m so excited. This sounds like a commercial – okay, it is a commercial.

But let me tell you, beyond the health benefits, this is a social centerpiece. It’s a place to relax and chill and splash the water on the rocks and get a burst of steam. So, go pay a quick visit to almostheaven.com. Warning, you’re going to be tempted.

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