Please welcome Sasha Graham, the host of the Sports Will Save Us All podcast!
What a great name for a show, and I had a great time being a guest on it—we had a wide ranging conversation and really hit it off as she hit me with some surprise questions, trying to put me on the spot…it was wonderful that I said, you know what—how about I bring you onto the B.rad podcast? We turned the tables and while I didn’t put her on the spot too badly, we did talk about some really interesting and thought provoking topics in this episode—one of them was her description of herself as overly competitive, especially in her youth, and how she had to learn the hard way to manage that natural competitive intensity.
I asked her if it was inherent or environmental, which led to a really interesting discussion about that and how, as she matured as a person and an athlete over the years, she realized that the most important thing was to have fun and appreciate the journey rather than obsess about the outcome.
I think you’re going to love some of that commentary, which might get you thinking about your own competitive mindset and the relative importance of appreciating the process versus setting and achieving goals. Sometimes we can get out of hand with that stuff, especially these days. Our conversation then transitions into a discussion about the overly pressurized, overly competitive youth sporting experience that seems to be the norm today, and what we can do about it as well-meaning, devoted parents who want the best for our kids and want to give them all the opportunities they deserve. But we also touch on some of these disturbing phenomenons that have been really highlighted these days, like the expense, the pressure, and the selectivity of competitive sports and how so many kids end up dropping out of them, so it’s also sort of an all or nothing approach.
We also get into some parenting and some kid topics, like the potential solution of bringing back the emphasis and the promotion of recreational sports. I also asked Sasha what her relationship with sports means to her today and throughout her life. We had such a fun conversation and I think, after listening to it, you will be inspired to go listen to some of her great content on the Sports will Save us All podcast. You can start with my interview, but for now, here we go with Sasha Graham.
Sports Will Save Us All is an award-winning weekly podcast from Sasha Graham and is available on every major podcasting platform.
TIMESTAMPS:
We explore many aspects of sport itself, looking at competition intensity and youth sports. [01:03]
In a children’s book, Sasha writes about a girl who is not invited to a party because she is always so competitive. She learns a good lesson. [06:09]
Is an overly competitive nature inherent? [09:05]
Endurance athletes might be different. [14:04]
How do you categorize where the healthy competitive drive can drift into something that is not wholesome or has a negative aspect on your life? [16:47]
Happines can be complicated but also deliciously simple. Have fun. Just don’t focus so much on the outcome. [23:54]
Look around your work or at your peers. Are they having a life like you want to have or are they so absorbed in their careers that they don’t have family or other sources of happiness. [28:48]
The state of today’s youth sports is arguably overly competitive and pressurized. [32:43]
Parents, let your kids play sports to have fun. [38:40]
How can we guard against those negative repercussions in high level competitive in youth sports? [42:16]
Why are parents so invested in what they perceive as success for the kids? [45:44]
There’s a kid at community college who is happy and a kid at an Ivy League who is merable. Which kid is the most successful? [54:04]
Sasha has a successful podcast. What are her favorite things about doing it? [58:48]
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TRANSCRIPT:
Brad (00:00:00):
Welcome to the B.rad podcast – where we explore ways to pursue peak performance with passion throughout life. I’m Brad Kearns, NY Times bestselling author, world #1 ranked masters age 60-plus high jumper, and former #3 world ranked professional triathlete. You’ll learn how to stay fit, strong and powerful as you age; transform your diet to lose body fat and increase energy; sort through hype and misinformation to make simple, sustainable lifestyle changes; and broaden your perspective beyond a fit body to experience healthy relationships, nonstop personal growth, and ultimately a happy, healthy, long life. Let’s explore beyond shortcuts, hacks, and crushing competition to laugh, have fun, appreciate the journey, and not take ourselves too seriously. It’s time to B.rad!
Sasha (00:00:51):
When that goal becomes everything, then what’s afterwards? Like either you achieve it and then what? Yeah. Or you don’t achieve it, and then what? Right? Yeah. That as opposed to thinking,
Brad (00:01:03):
Please welcome Sasha Graham, the host of the Sports Will Save Us All podcast. What a great name. And I had a great time being a guest on Salsa’s Show. We hit it off. We had a wide ranging conversation. She hit me blindsided with some surprise questions, trying to put me on the spot. It was wonderful. And I said, you know what? How about I bring you onto the B.rad podcast? We turned the tables. Now, I didn’t put her on the spot too bad, but we talked about some really interesting and thought provoking topics. One of ’em was her description of herself as overly competitive, especially in her youth. And she had to learn the hard way to manage that natural competitive intensity. I asked her if it was inherent or environmental. So we have some interesting discussion on that. And as she matured, as a person and an athlete over the years, realized that the most important thing was to have fun and appreciate the journey, rather than obsess about the outcome, I think you’re gonna love some of that commentary.
Brad (00:02:07):
Maybe get you thinking about your own competitive mindset and the relative importance of appreciating the process versus setting and achieving goals. Sometimes we can get outta hand on that stuff. These days, uh, the conversation transitioned into the overly pressurized, overly competitive youth sporting experience that seems to be the norm today. And what the heck do we do about it as well-Meaning devoted parents who want the best for your kid, wanna give your kid all the opportunities he or she deserves. But then you see some of these disturbing phenomenons that are so highlighted these days with the expense and the pressure and the selectivity. We talked about how so many kids drop out of competitive sports. So it’s sort of like this all or nothing. We discussed a solution of bringing back the emphasis and the promotion of recreational sports, so you’ll get into some parenting and some kid topics.
Brad (00:03:10):
I asked Sasha what her relationship with sports means to her today and throughout her life. A fun conversation, and I think you’ll be inspired to go listen to some of her great content on the Sports wWill Save Us All podcast. You can start with my interview, but for now, here we go with Sasha Graham.
Brad (00:03:31):
Sasha Graham Sports will save us all. I’m so glad to connect with you. We did a great show on your channel, and I said, look, we’re gonna have to, flip flop here, especially since you put me on the spot and asked me these out of the blue challenging questions that you had so much fun with coming up overnight, departing from your script. Uh, you have a great operation going there. The title says so much, but I, I want to introduce you and find out how you got onto this podcasting journey, learn about what that title means to you and what the show’s all about.
Sasha (00:04:04):
Certainly, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. It’s so funny. Like I, I feel like I, uh, you know, maybe threw down the gauntlet without fully thinking about the ramifications or the potential ramifications <laugh>
Brad (00:04:18):
Oh yeah. Watch out <laugh> to spin that mic around. Yeah,
Sasha (00:04:22):
Right. <laugh>.
Brad (00:04:25):
So you titled your podcast Sports Will Save Us All. You were inspired to start it because you were promoting your children’s book that had a, a sports topic?
Sasha (00:04:36):
That is true. Yeah. So, you know, I grew up playing every single sport I could, you know, possibly play. It was always a really, really important part of my life. And then, you know, as an adult, it’s continued to be an important part. And I then I, so my career, just really briefly, is that I was a vice president at the Walt Disney Studios there in la and then my husband and I got married and we moved to Portland, Oregon, and we had some kids. And then we moved out here to Arizona. And, you know, when I got out here to Arizona, I was doing freelance work and a lot of marketing and PR and nonprofit freelance work, but I had some extra time and I’d always wanted to write children’s books, you know, like so many people. And I was like, you know what, this is the time, right?
Sasha (00:05:17):
This is, I’ve got the time, I’ve got the energy. And so I had written all these stories. The first one that came out was called Milo, Does Not Like Mornings. And then the second one was called Whitney Wins Everything. And that one was really inspired by my own experience being an overly competitive human being. And I say overly competitive. I think being competitive is one of the great gifts of humankind. I think that that is something that we are really, really lucky to have. But being overly competitive, when I say that it was robbing me of the joy of playing volleyball with my friends, right? That I was so competitive that it would wreck it for me if we didn’t win, or if I had a bad game, or, or honestly, if somebody else on my team had a bad game. And so I was in
Brad (00:06:06):
<laugh>, honestly. Thanks for being honest. Yeah,
Sasha (00:06:09):
Yeah. Like, it’s one thing to hold yourself to this really high standard, but when you get PO”d at people on your team for not playing very well, like then, you know, you know that you have a problem, <laugh>. So, you know, one of the ways that I’ve always processed is by writing. And so I had written this story about this little girl who’s really, really competitive and she’s, you know, in elementary school. And what she finds is that she’s isn’t invited to these functions and specifically another girl’s birthday party. And when she asks around, it turns out that they’re gonna have all these games at the party. And one of the other kids said, well, you’re not invited because you always win all the games, right? And we all know people like that who just win everything and it makes it less fun or the other people, right?
Sasha (00:06:52):
So in the book, I’m gonna give the great big spoiler. You know, of course Whitney still wins because Whitney does win everything. She still wins at the end, but she does it by passing the ball to a teammate and letting him have the glory. And it was really my process of working out like, how can you exist in this world as somebody who’s really competitive and really loves to compete, but doesn’t want to lose that joy of, of the game and of the process? Because that’s really, in my opinion, why we should be playing sports. So I, I released this book, my publicist had me go on all of these sports podcasts, and when I finished that publicity tour, I was thinking about my next book and what I was, what I had coming down the pike. And I realized what I’d really loved was talking to all of these people on these sports podcasts about sports.
Sasha (00:07:42):
I was like, that is, you know, would you really take the time to, to focus in on what you love? And I was like, I love doing that. And so I thought, what does it take to, to start a podcast? And I got on the Google machine, right? And I looked it up and I was like, all right, well, let’s do this. And you know, we, we really found an audience really quickly, which was really encouraging. And here we are, you know, two and a half hour or two and a half years later, 150 episodes and still going strong.
Brad (00:08:08):
So you found your audience. What do you characterize your audience all about?
Sasha (00:08:13):
You know, we have a really, really great mix of people who listen to the show. And I think that that is a testament to our guests. You know, that I have interviewed, I think my youngest guest was Theodore Whitehurst. And, uh, he was eight at the time, you know, all the way up through, you know, I wouldn’t ask their age, but definitely people probably, although actually I do know, he was 85 years old. I interviewed somebody who was 85 who did the Double Iron Butt challenge, where he rode his motorcycle at 85 years old as a fundraiser for this golf charity, um, through every state in the United States, and hit him twice. It was the double iron butt challenge, and he did it in 21 days or something, just bananas. Wow. So I think that having such a wide range of guests then also lends itself to this wide range of listeners.
Brad (00:09:05):
So this overly competitive nature that you describe, do you believe that inherent, or what do you, what do you characterize that in yourself? How did you develop this? Or how does it, how did it come out?
Sasha (00:09:19):
It’s funny you ask that because I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about where competition and drive come from. And I have talked to a lot of people on my show about this very thing, including sports psychiatrists who I’ve had on. And, you know, I had the sport, the former sports psychiatrist for the Phoenix Suns and the Phoenix Mercury on the show, and asked her that very question where this comes from, I think, and I actually, I was just talking to a friend of mine the other day who played for the Kansas City Chiefs about this. And, and what he and I sort of agreed on is that oftentimes that competitive drive comes from a desire to fill some sort of hole that people who are really content, I don’t feel like they need to go out there and prove themselves by winning all the time. Yeah, I just, I really don’t. And so I, I’m not sure that it’s always a negative thing, but I think that for those of us who have been really, really driven to compete and to win, I think that there’s something sort of missing from, from early on that we’re, that we’re trying to fill in.
Brad (00:10:24):
And so if it’s from early on, do you think it was, you know, genetic, or was it ages zero to seven, as they always say about your childhood programming goes into your subconscious and then you play out the rest of your life operating from that, from that age zero to seven programming,
Sasha (00:10:44):
Right? All of the parents out there are thinking about their own parenting from their kids ages zero to seven going, oh man,
Brad (00:10:49):
Did I push ’em too hard? Yeah,
Sasha (00:10:51):
Yeah, yeah. It’s as if it’s not stressful enough parenting, you know, in my case, I think that sports took me a place where people were cheering their faces off for me, right? That, that felt so good to me that, um, the environment that I grew up in, like that wasn’t necessarily happening at home. And, but when I would go and, you know, whether it was playing volleyball or basketball or soccer or winning a race or whatever it was when people were just cheering like crazy for me and yell in my name and, you know, all of those things, like, I think that was the hole that was being filled for me in my case. I think that it’s different for different people, but in my case, I think that’s what it was, was that I found this place where I could get all of this incredible positive reinforcement and, you know, plus it was just fun. <laugh>.
Brad (00:11:41):
Yeah. I’m reflecting on my own athletic background, which started so early. And I think there was something inherent because at age seven, I, I just dug up this old picture of me going to the, the track meet at age seven in my, I I was running the 400 meters, which is so funny ’cause that’s what I do now in the 60 plus division all, yeah. So I have this picture full circle ’cause it’s one circle around the track. And I’m like, what the heck was I doing back then as a little kid? I remember hating it. I quit after one year because it was so painful and the practices were so hard. But I realized as you get into the, you know, older ages, like adolescents, um, sports was a way to distinguish oneself in the pack and in the culture. And I think that’s a really strong driving factor. But I also had something deep down inside. I started training for the Olympics at age seven. ’cause I saw the 1972 Olympics on television. And so I don’t think that was quote normal or, you know, the next child might have been into, uh, building, uh, sandcastles and stomping the trucks in the dirt.
Sasha (00:12:42):
<laugh>. Right. No, and I, I think that that’s, um, it also has something to do with having early success. I think that having that early success, improving yourself early and getting a taste of, you know, what victory feels like, I think that also contributes to it. I think the, probably the psychology of the people who are terrible and stay with it is very different from the people who, you know, go out and have, you know, have some,
Brad (00:13:07):
Yeah. And you said it doesn’t necessarily have to be a weakness, this high competitive intensity, but it can be, and I think in the endurance sports in particular, it’s not, it’s, it’s not necessarily winning and losing, but it’s like everyone who agrees to participate is likely would benefit from asking themselves, I’m trying to be nice, what void they’re trying to fill because there’s so much inherent suffering involved. And it’s not that fun like a pickleball tournament might be, or getting better and better at golf. I feel like is a fun, beautiful, graceful challenge that pulls in so many personality aspects and, and technique and so forth. But, if you sign up for a triathlon and you like it and you start to do seven per year for the next 12 years, there really is a question of like, why do you need to inject this suffering into daily life?
Sasha (00:14:04):
I mean, I think that that’s a question worth asking for. Sure. And I think that endurance athletes are in a category all their own, you know, that I, I’ve interviewed some. I interviewed, interviewed an ultra marathon runner recently, an ultra runner, and it was just, uh, yeah. That, that’s on a whole nother level. I mean, when you’re running a hundred, 150, 200 miles at a time, like there’s something else going on there, right?
Brad (00:14:28):
Yeah. And I think the elite athletes that do it in a competitive manner and are extremely proficient, that’s a little different than the average plotter who’s finishing, you know, the winners of the Western states hundred Mile are now down 14 hours and 27 seconds. And they’re booking, they have their nutrition, their coaching, their incredibly detailed training patterns, but then people are finishing in 31 hours just inside the cutoff. And it’s like, okay, you’re out there twice as long as the winner. That’s quite an impressive achievement in itself, but it’s, you know, it, it, it’s, it’s, I think it’s in a different category of like, could you just run 50 miles and be content with that? And, and because, ’cause the winner just finished when you got to 50 miles and just have a stoppoing point and everybody goes home.
Sasha (00:15:16):
No, it is, it’s very interesting. It’s very interesting. But, you know, you had also asked about why my show is called Sports Will Save Us All. I just realized that I never, I never answered that question. And I do think, so we like to say sports will save us all, and then the tagline is where sports are just the beginning. And I like this idea of, you know, it’s sort of coming all the way around, right? It’s bookended by these two ideas because sports will save us all, is sort of, has a finality about it. Whereas sports are just the beginning is, you know, that’s the starting line. And I really, when I started the show, I was in a place where I was having trouble finding connection with about half the population. You know, if you, if you look back to what was going on in 2021 or so, that things were so divided. And I really asked myself the question, where is the common ground? Where is it that people, no matter what they believe, can get together and talk in a way that’s respectful about things? Love? And it really came down to sports and
Brad (00:16:16):
Sports or politics. Either one. Uh, maybe sports. Okay. <laugh>.
Sasha (00:16:20):
Yeah. I mean, I was this close to starting a politics podcast. That’s not true at all. <laugh> <laugh>. And I really thought, you know, if anything’s gonna save us, it’s gonna be sports. Because that’s somewhere where we can all get together and we can, we can have these conversations and we can realize that people are not our enemy. That we all want the same things, and that when, when we talk about sports or we’re cheering for our favorite sports team, like, those are things that align us in ways that very few other things can,
Brad (00:16:47):
You described yourself as overly competitive, bringing the negative aspect to it and being frustrated with a poor performing teammate or a teammate who’s not as dedicated as you. In the case of Kobe Bryant trying to j drive Shaquille O’Neal off the Lakers, because he was making movies in the summer, it wasn’t good enough to three-peat, he had to be up working out at 6:00 AM with Kobe, I suppose, uh, but how do you, um, how do you kind of categorize where the healthy competitive drive can drift into something that is not wholesome or has a negative aspect on your life in some ways?
Sasha (00:17:25):
I mean, I could get into sort of the minutiae of what that looks like and addiction and all of those things, <laugh>, but, but I think that for me personally, it is the difference between happiness and fun. Okay, stick with me here. So, happiness, I think is sort of this idea of outcome-focused, right? So I wanna be happy, and so I’m gonna have this, I’m gonna cultivate relationships, and I’m gonna, you know, watch my health and I’m going to eat well, and I’m gonna work out whatever. Whereas fun is really this idea of what I’m doing right now is giving me pleasure. And I think that what was happening was that I was chasing happiness, thinking, if I win this game, if we have, you know, if we all play really well together and I play really well, and I, my sets are perfect, and all these things when I’m playing volleyball, that that’s gonna make me happy.
Sasha (00:18:23):
And if that doesn’t happen, then if that doesn’t happen, then I was unhappy, right? Mm-hmm. Because that the, it couldn’t, you know, the opposite is true, of course, as opposed to, I’m gonna go out and have fun. Like, that’s why I’m playing on this team is because I wanna have fun right now. And so when I had that aha moment of chasing fun, instead of chasing happiness, everything changed. Suddenly I was like, wait, I, it does not matter at all whether we win this game or not. Like in the big scheme of things, like zero, zero changes if we win this game. But what did happen was that I realized, was that I was in control of having fun or not. And that was why I was really out there.
Brad (00:19:07):
At what age did this epiphany occur to you,
Sasha (00:19:09):
<laugh>? Way, way, way too late, way too late. I was well into my forties, I think when I finally got to that place. But you know what, I got there. So we just, you know, we pat ourselves on the back no matter when we get there.
Brad (00:19:22):
It reminds me of one of my favorite Roger Banister quotes. The first man to break the sub-four-minute mile, who was incredible quote machine. He wrote this book about his career, like he was only 25 years old when he retired at the very top of the world, because he went to, you know, continue with his medical studies and he had a distinguished career as a physician for the rest of his life passed, in the world. Nothing else matters, but when it’s over, you file it away generally in a place, not very important. And I’m thinking right now just off camera, I can look over into the closet and my file cabinet’s there, and in the very back of one of the drawers, I have this thick manila folder of all my printed race results from my triathlon career, which I lived and breathed.
Brad (00:20:13):
It was the essence of my existence for that decade when I was traveling around competing on the pro circuit. Uh, and each thing you can pull out and see that I got third place in Phoenix in 1991, and I had a good swim and a really good bike, and so on and so forth. And so it has, you know, such little significance. But I think the richness of sport is, you know, we need those things where we’re all in and we’re asking the very best of ourselves. And since I trashed endurance sports a little earlier, I think that’s one of the beauties of something where you’re trying to run on foot across the Sierra Nevada, like few humans have ever done in the history of humanity. And so you’re completely engaged for that 24 or 31 hours, and that’s a very rare opportunity to do something like that these days.
Sasha (00:21:00):
Well, and I think that there is an extraordinary amount of value in those things. You know, that I think that the planning, the training, all of those things can feel really good. It’s awesome to have goals. I mean, that is one of, again, like we are blessed by getting to be competitive, and we are blessed by the fact that we can look ahead and set a goal and work hard to achieve it, because that feels amazing. Like, that’s really good for us. But, but I think that what you’re touching on is really, really important, which is that when that goal becomes everything, then what’s afterwards? Like either you achieve it and then what, or you don’t achieve it, and then what, right? Yeah. That as opposed to thinking, you know, they talk about the difference in, you know, outcome-based goals versus, you know, process-based goals, you know, that.
Sasha (00:21:52):
And I think that those are really, really important things to recognize as human beings in, you know, being a fully formed and, you know, happy human. Everybody who I talk to for the show, who’s been on a team when I talk to them, you know, if they’re retired, whether they’ve played in the NFL or the NBA or for their college team or whoever it is, they talk about their teammates. They talk about their coaches, they don’t talk about the championships. I mean, I inter David Bruton Jr. Who is on a Super Bowl winning Denver Broncos, and what does he talk about? You know, he talks about the charity work that he did, you know, he talks about, you know, playing with Peyton Manning. It’s just very interesting. The things that we think are important not end up, they don’t end up being the important part.
Brad (00:22:36):
I like the idea of having both the intrinsic and the extrinsic results oriented goals being overlaid gracefully together because the, you know, the, the greatest champions are very fixated on outcome and are able to celebrate and all that. But you, you see deep down, if you examine carefully, what they’re really driven by, and it’s, you know, the, the mastery of the process, one of my favorite examples is Tiger Woods, where, you know, he dominates the masters in 1997, 1 of the greatest performances in the history of athletics, where he transcended the whole sport and the, the status quo. And then he proceeded to deconstruct his swing because it had some issues with consistency, and he was relying on athleticism instead of perfect mechanics. And so here’s a guy at the top of the world who’s dominating everybody, but it’s not good enough. And he proceeded to do that two more times over the course of his career.
Sasha (00:23:31):
And I mean, it does beg the question, you know, was he doing that because it was fun for him? And I think yes. You know, I think that some, for some of us taking a really hard look and breaking it down and breaking down the mechanics, like, that’s really fun. And, you know, he’s already achieved this extrinsic goal, you know, he’s better than everybody else. So now what is he gonna do? You know? And I find that, I find that fascinating.
Brad (00:23:54):
Yeah, it’s, you have to be driven by something. And if you’re simply obsessed with the outcome, as you mentioned, sometimes that is a good recipe for personal problems in real everyday life,54you know, lack of perspective, um, diminishing motivation because you did get to the top of the heap and you made all this money or whatever you were obsessed with. So boy, uh, you know, watch out for putting too much stake in the outcome for sure.
Sasha (00:24:23):
Well, not to mention, you know, we tend to think of happiness as, I’ll be happy when, you know, I’ll be happy when I lose 10 pounds when I hit this time in the mile, when I win this competition, when I, you know, all these things. Well, you know what? I’ve got some hard truths for you, which is beyond happy now. You’re not gonna be happy then. Like, it’s just not how it works. That, and we’ve seen plenty of examples of this with people who seem to have it all and they are not happy. And so I think happiness is much more complicated than that. But it’s also just deliciously simple, you know, that taking joy in the day-to-day things is really, really important, and not focusing on those outcomes so much.
Brad (00:25:02):
So how do you recalibrate when you fall off track a tiny bit with your ruminating thoughts or whatever’s going on when you depart from that pure love and appreciation of the process of every day, things don’t go your way and you start to get negative,
Sasha (00:25:18):
Right? No, and I think that luckily there’s such a strong focus on mental health these days, that there are a lot more options than there used to be, because I think that that’s a very easy thing to do. You know, that it’s easy to lose sight of all of the joy that the day-to-day brings us, and to get bogged down in these things that we think are important, or maybe they are important, you know, that that life doesn’t always go how we want it to go. And there are a lot of, you know, the world is pretty, is pretty twisted up at the moment. And so I think that it’s back to the basics. I think that it’s leaning on people who love you and recognize that people love you asking for help. I think that it therapy, you know, plays a very, very important role.
Sasha (00:25:59):
And I think that also just reconnecting to those things that bring you joy, that, that focus on having fun. You know, if we look at our calendars, how much of our time every day is spent doing things that, you know, because we think that we’re supposed to be productive, you know, that so many of us who are so productive almost feel guilty if we sit down and do something that is purely for fun. I was just complimenting my husband on this the other day, because he loves airplanes. He absolutely loves airplanes, and always has. And about two years ago, probably, he started getting into with a friend of his remote control airplanes, for which I walked mercilessly, right? Like, he’s like the guy at the park now flying remote control planes. There is no goal for this activity. Mm. Right. He’s not training for anything. It’s not productive. The only reason he does it is to have fun. Yeah. And that I admire so much. You know, he gets up early to go meet this group of guys and they go to the park and they all fly their planes together. I mean, how beautiful is that? Like he’s, he’s made this very conscious decision to just go do something that’s fun for him.
Brad (00:27:11):
Yeah. Especially today, because those opportunities kind of get sucked away as we are, you know, interfacing with technology all day and have the potential or the opportunity to be quote, productive end quote all the time. And I realized people in my age group can reminisce too, because half my life was without the, uh, mobile device or the internet connection. And so I remember those days where you would go and do something that was, you know, disengaging from your core daily responsibilities and contribution to the planet. Yeah. I long for those times because now we have to artificially orchestrate them
Sasha (00:27:51):
Yeah. Just to be unreachable, you know, just, yeah.
Brad (00:27:54):
Right. Yeah.
Sasha (00:27:55):
I mean, even, even when I was working for Disney, when I would fly cross country, or I handled Hawaii at the time, and I was flying to Hawaii, nobody could get me on the plane. Now you’re not even unreachable on a Yeah. An airplane
Brad (00:28:06):
On a freaking plane, man. Right? Like,
Sasha (00:28:08):
That should be the one time where nobody can get in touch with you. And so I think that it is really important, as you say, to orchestrate those times. And you and I talked about this a little bit on my show that, you know, when I go and work out with my trainer, I started putting my phone on do not disturb and leaving it in the locker. And it’s, it’s my favorite time of the week because she and I have a blast together. It’s so much fun, you know, we’re doing something healthy. She is a dynamo who is just a light on this planet, and I don’t have my phone there. Like, it’s, it’s, and every, you know, the world keeps spinning, even though I’m, I’m not reachable. <laugh> an hour.
Brad (00:28:43):
We’re gonna be okay without you for an hour. Yeah. <laugh>.
Sasha (00:28:45):
Yeah. Yeah. So far so good. Anyway, we’ll see <laugh>.
Brad (00:28:48):
So that Disney career, I’m sure was super gnarly, uh, the way Hollywood works and, and the long hours and the competitive pressures, I guess you were kind of destined for such a career, uh, due to all that excess competitive intensity. But, uh, how was that and how was those transitions that you mentioned really quickly? I’m also curious to know, like, you moved from Portland, which is rainy Pacific Northwest to the hot desert, and, uh, how has that worked out?
Sasha (00:29:18):
Well, I’ll answer that question first, which is that it is delightful. I love the sunshine. I love the dry. I would take 110 over, you know, 55 and raining every single day of the week. Portland and Oregon are an incredible place. I love that town. You know, many of our best friends are still there, but I, uh, I love Arizona as for Disney. So the funny thing about this, and, um, parents listen up is that I grew up actually in Oregon, in a little farm town without a television. So then I went to college and became a broadcast communication major, became a television producer and writer, and then went and worked for one of the biggest media companies in the world as the vice president of national publicity. So parents let that be a lesson. Like you, you deprive your children of things, they will seek them out. <laugh>,
Brad (00:30:06):
You created that fascination. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Incredible. Yeah.
Sasha (00:30:11):
So yeah, it was, um, the perfect time in my life to do it. You know, I was in my, in my twenties and early thirties, and I love movies. I love working with creatives, and I got to do a lot of that. I met just some really, really incredible dynamic people. And, you know, then I looked around and I said, who here in this environment has the life that I want? <laugh>? I, I didn’t see anybody who had it, you know, and
Brad (00:30:39):
Michael Eisner, uh, the top executive. No, no, no. Yeah,
Sasha (00:30:44):
No, I mean, and that was the thing was that, you know, when you are in an environment and you look around and you say, okay, who is getting to go to the kids’ basketball games? Like, who is, you know, like these things that I knew were gonna be important to me, you know, as I got married and had kids and all those things, and nobody had it. Lots of people had live-in nannies and lots of people didn’t their kids much, and we all traveled a ton. And so it was, the transition was a very deliberate one out of that world. I miss it sometimes, but I now I get to go to the movies and just get to enjoy the movie and not worry about, you know, anything else.
Brad (00:31:19):
<laugh>, that is a huge question to ask at various stages of life. I love that. And I guess you could look around your, your coworkers as a good sample, but I guess you could also look around with your peer group and the people you spend time with and ask those important questions.
Sasha (00:31:37):
Isn’t that true? Like, look at, and that was actually, it’s funny you say that because that was my New Year’s resolution this year, was to look at people I admire and then do what they’re doing that and, you know, so what don’t
Brad (00:31:49):
New Years’ resolution. Okay. Yeah.
Sasha (00:31:52):
I mean, I was like, because I think for me, New Year’s resolutions are kind of silly, right? I mean, it’s a, it’s a nice time to set some goals, I guess. But, you know, I think that I’m pretty rad and I, my life is pretty rad. So am I gonna set, you know, arbitrary goals based on January 1st? No, except in this case, which I was like, I had, I had had Steven Hunter who was a center for the Phoenix Sons on the show, and he was talking about his kids, and he has a son who’s autistic. And so now Steven has started this foundation that supports autistic kids in sports since he has a basketball clinic for, and, but the way he talked about his kids, I loved it. I mean, he, he talked about them being magical, and I thought, that’s how I wanna talk about my kids when, when people ask me about my kids. So, so that was an example of, you know, somebody doing something. I admire that. Then now I, now I do <laugh>.
Brad (00:32:43):
I guess this is a good point to transition to something that we were thinking about, talking about, which is the state of today’s youth sports with particular interest in how it has become arguably overly competitive in a negative aspect and overly pressurized and overly accelerated, especially going back again to my reference points from years ago where, uh, we didn’t have four-star and three-star ratings and kids on social media signing NIL deals at a young age and transferring and doing all these things. So I suppose you’ve probably covered this topic at length in your show, and I would love to get your insights and
Sasha (00:33:25):
Yeah. The, the
Brad (00:33:26):
Go to town,
Sasha (00:33:27):
The sports industrial complex as we Mm.
Brad (00:33:30):
Huge sports industrial complex. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Sasha (00:33:32):
That’s, I think it’s a really big problem. I think that the, um, and as I get older and my priorities change and I get away from that super competitive nature, what I realize is that the biggest problem I think, is that we’re robbing these kids of the joy of sports that, you know, when you and I played as kids, there were people on, the teams were terrible, right? We were playing on no cut teams, and you know, we were all just out there running around. There were kids that were picking the dandelions in the soccer field, and that was fine, right? Everybody got to get out there and have a really good time. And now with kids specializing so early and parents living so vicariously through their kids and, and it getting so expensive, you know, that with these, these club and these travel teams being necessary, if kids wanna play in high school, that, you know, now these parents are in this impossible situation.
Sasha (00:34:23):
And I have an ama an amazing amount of empathy for them because, you know, I get it. You want your kid to be able to play at the next level. You know, you, you do everything right for ’em. But what do we see happening? Like, all these kids are burning out when they’re 11, 12 years old. So tons, you know, they’re having trouble getting kids to play for their high school teams because either their club teams don’t want them to play for the high school team because of the risk of injury, or because, you know, all these other weird politics. But, you know, it’s also just there’s a limited amount of time in the day. So these high schools are now having trouble fielding teams because <laugh> of all of their being, you know, poached by all the club teams. So yeah, this is definitely something I’m passionate about. I suspect that this generation of kids who’s grown up doing this will revert back. And I bet they’ll say, yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna bring rec sports back. My kids are only gonna play rec sports. We’re gonna have a community team where you play with the kids from down the street, y’all get on your bikes and you ride to practice together. We’re not gonna drive an hour and a half to practice on a Tuesday night and do our homework in the car, because that’s dumb.
Brad (00:35:31):
Well, that’s pretty hopeful, Sasha. Thanks. Thanks. I like it. I like it. Hopeful day. <laugh>. I do think that would be one great solution is to continue to support and promote recreational sports. Because what happens now is the kids, the attrition rate starts at like age 12 or 13, especially. I saw some stat with, uh, females where 80% of ’em are done with their athletic career at age 13, because there’s only,18 girls on the high school volleyball team and 16 on the basketball team, and there’s a thousand girls at the school. So you know, what happened to that in life? I, I don’t know. Um, maybe it’s just no longer a cultural priority to have a recreational opportunity. There’s plenty of them for adults. We can go sign up on the pickleball club and find our way to the bowling team and the 10 K race. But,
Sasha (00:36:26):
But look at that like, it’s because we grew up doing that, right? So what’s, what’s happened is we’ve brought our rec culture, our rec sports culture into adulthood because we recognize the value of that. So what’s gonna happen for these kids who grew up in this club, sports culture, are they gonna continue with the rec sports? Are they gonna say no, sports are a chore? Like, that’s something that I did because I had to, or because I was, this makes me absolutely crazy, this idea that you play youth sports in order to get a scholarship,
Brad (00:36:59):
<laugh>, it
Sasha (00:37:00):
Makes me bananas. Parents take that money that you are planning on putting into club sports and put it into a 529, and you’re gonna have more money than mm-hmm <affirmative>. You would have from a college scholarship.
Brad (00:37:11):
Oh, furthermore, now we’re, now we’re getting revved up <laugh>. I mean, this, this is the whole thing’s so insane because when you are on a full ride scholarship for one of those big sports, you are obligated that the school owns you for around 40 hours a week. Uh, maybe even more in the case of football, basketball, the big, big ones. But even, uh, like the cross country team or the swim team, the kid might as well be working at Starbucks for minimum wage and paying their own tuition and having their freedom. So it is, it’s a, it’s a devil’s bargain, of course. And then the, you know, the odds and all those other things that for some reason parents ignore is kind of silly. I don’t think it’s, i, I don’t know if they’re really, uh, obsessed with the finances as much as the prestige and the vicarious thrill of saying, my son got a ride over to Southwestern, uppermost state for, you know, uh, pitching relief pitching or whatever the heck’s going on.
Sasha (00:38:07):
Right? Right. It’s, um, I also just think that it takes out so many of the options. You know, if you’re singularly focused on your child getting a scholarship in this sport that they’ve been specializing in since they were 10 years old, that then, you know, what happens if they decide that they want to go to a different school because it has a specialty that they like, or, you know, it happens, we get injured, or what
Brad (00:38:31):
Happens? What if we get injured? And you’re in the fricking snow in Maine when you, you came from Scottsdale to go play college softball. Yeah. Hilarious. Yeah,
Sasha (00:38:40):
<laugh>. Exactly. So, so that, that’s my other soapbox is, you know, let our kids play sports to have fun, and when they’re done, like let ’em be done. Like let ’em take a break and don’t make it so that they can never go back. You know, that, that’s another thing is that, you know, in this culture that we’re in right now, if a kid decides that they want to try a different sport, if they wanna try lacrosse for a season instead of, you know, football or whatever it is, then, you know, chances are they can’t get back onto the team because now they’re so far behind and, you know, again, it gets real political. So
Brad (00:39:12):
Yeah, I think it’s important to talk straight about this because there are these voices saying that, uh, diversification is better. And Steve Nash played so much soccer and that allowed him to have eyes in the back of his head on the basketball court, and that’s great for him. And David Epstein wrote a whole book called Range, which, uh, you know, we can embrace the message a lot, but what I saw in youth sports was just like you described, you’re compelled to join up if your kid wants to dream of a spot. And now my kids are 27, 25, they’re through with it. My son was a really ambitious young athlete with a lot of drive and intensity and talent and playing in the youth basketball leagues and throwing no look passes to kids who would, it would hit him in the stomach and go outta bounds.
Brad (00:39:53):
And we’re driving home and he, he’d say like, Jamie sucks at basketball. He didn’t see any of my passes. And I’m like, that’s true. Nevertheless, we’re playing in a recreational community league. And I realized that it was time to go to the dark side and have to, you know, go over to the EAU side because you want to do what’s best for your kids. And it is a hard truth that, I mean, his coach in the first EAU tournament he ever played, so he is going from superstar in the park to playing against the big shots. And his first game, the coach takes me aside and him listening in earshot, and he says, if your son makes this many turnovers, he’s not gonna play high school basketball. And I’m like, dude, the guy’s in sixth grade, and it was his first game.
Brad (00:40:43):
And, you know, he wasn’t used to, you know, kids six inches taller than him that were quick and stealing his passes. Like, you’re outta your mind. However, he was truthful and accurate, and it was time to, you know, tow the line or watch your kid sitting in the stands, which is no big deal if that’s gonna be your kid’s destiny. But that was a real slap in the face eye-opener for me, because I’m carrying all these high-minded, moral, values and belief systems, but I had to toss ’em in the garbage can and, and throw the kid to the wolves, essentially.
Sasha (00:41:21):
Oh, well, but don’t you think there’s a difference between it being athlete driven or kid driven versus parent driven?
Brad (00:41:28):
Yes. And for the 27% of those girls on the competitive volleyball team who travel every weekend, and it costs the parents $4,500 a year, it’s a wonderful life changing, life shaping experience for them. And they go and play in college, and they have a great time, and they get hurt and miss a year, and they come back and play. So there’s a certain segment where it’s, you know, it’s the calling for the kid, it keeps ’em outta trouble, et cetera, et cetera, when we have, you know, those types of kids. But for the rest and the burnout and the, you know, the dis disintegration of the family unit because of all the obligation of weekend travel, that’s the part where we need to examine it a little further.
Sasha (00:42:12):
Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree.
Brad (00:42:16):
So we have one solution, which is more promotion of recreational sports. And then what about the big cauldron? Do you have any insights about how we could, um, further optimize it and, you know, guard against some of that, those negative repercussions in high level competitive youth sports
Sasha (00:42:38):
<laugh>? Oh, if I did, if I did, I would, I would solve everything. You know, I think that all of the things that you’re talking about, you know, it all came from somewhere, right? That it all came from this idea of if you start doing something younger and you start doing something more, that you’ll be better at it. Mm-hmm. And, you know, the science doesn’t bear it out. Mm-hmm. That as it turns out, that what you do get is Tommy John surgery when you’re 12 years old. Right. If you are, have been pitching full-time since you were five <laugh>. So I think that my hope is that cooler minds will prevail. People will, and again, I think that it will have to be a sea change of these kids who grew up in this environment. Maybe they’ll put their own kids into it, but, but I, I suspect they won’t. I think that they’ll say, look, if you wanna go play a sport, then it needs to be motivated by you. It needs to be driven by you. And that, that will, that will just be, uh, it’ll be a little more laid back. That’s my hope.
Brad (00:43:46):
Do you think the same dynamics exist in the academic world for kids these days with the, you know, the extremely selective college admissions process and all that?
Sasha (00:43:57):
Yeah, no, I think that it, not only that, but just this idea of like accelerating kids in math when they’re in ninth grade, you know, that like, oh, if they can be doing calculus when they’re, you know, in ninth grade, then they should be doing calculus. And then they can be doing, you know, some weird trigonometry, something or other, I don’t even know the names of them by the time they’re a senior. And I’m like, what are we racing towards people? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Like, it, it’s, it’s almost like we have accepted it as a given that doing things earlier and faster and harder and, you know, more complicated is better. And I just, I’m not willing to believe that. Like, I think that feeling successful at something, you know, I’ve got a, I’ve got a kid who, who’s a freshman in college this year, and I really, really felt helping him through that process that the most important thing was that he was somewhere that was a good fit for him.
Sasha (00:44:49):
Hmm. Does it matter if it’s prestigious? Does it matter? No, I don’t care. Like he’s his own guy. Like, he gets to do what he wants to do. And, you know, again, like, we’re gonna go back to happiness and joy and fun. And that’s really what it’s about. Like if your happiness comes from this, you know, doing calculus as a freshman in high school, that’s very different, right? That kid is going to do calculus when they’re a freshman in high school, whether you say anything about it or not, but the kid who’s being ridden by their parents and is being, you know, forced to accelerate and accelerate and accelerate and then apply to, you know, and, you know, the varsity blues scandal, you know, these parents
Brad (00:45:29):
<laugh>.
Sasha (00:45:29):
And to have people take their SATs and take it, you know, Photoshopping crew photos to get ’em sports scholarships at Stanford, like, you know, all of these just idiotic things that we see happening, like that’s not driven by the kid, that’s driven by the parents, and we need to, we need to calm down.
Brad (00:45:44):
Yeah. That’s really that’s a good point. I I never really thought about that. I was, I, I became obsessed with the scandal because it was so fascinating, and my son was right in the mix at that same time. And, you know, meeting with the coach at UCLA and the coach describing that if you run this fast in track and field, you’ll get what’s we call a golden ticket in the athletic department, which is the legit way that walk-on athletes can get admitted to the school. They’re not a, a recruited scholarship athlete, but there, there’s that middle ground in virtually every sport where you can excel and get through that back door where the assistant coach of the tennis team says, let this kid in and it’s all legit and up and up because the kid are gonna make a contribution. But then to think like that these guys are getting, you know, a bag full of, of cash to, you know, throw in the Photoshop kids.
Brad (00:46:34):
Oh, it was, it was hilarious. And it was interesting how the whole thing blew up. But when you say it’s driven by the parents, of course it’s driven by the parents. But, that’s pretty funny because even in the case of the celebrity children of the, the, the business tycoon and the actress, apparently they didn’t know what was going on, the kids. And, um, you know, they, they just go, go into the living room one day and the parents said, you got admitted to USC and apparently one of those kids said, I’m, I’m not sure I want to go to college. I’m blowing up on social media. I got a million followers and this whole thing, but whew. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
Sasha (00:47:12):
Well, right. And I mean, to what end, Hmm? What end? Why is it that we are trying, because when it comes down to it, our kids are separate human beings, right? Why is it that we are so invested in what we perceive as their success? Yeah. You know, you know, it’s not, I don’t even call it success, because success comes in all sorts of different ways, you know, that, that you can be successful in, you know, so many different ways. So why is it that we have this, this idea of what is going to be successful for our kids, and then we’re willing to work so hard and put so much time and energy and money into making that happen. It’s, it’s a bizarre, it’s a bizarre thing of human nature.
Brad (00:47:52):
Yeah. I, I try to tell any parents of age now that I can sit back with my, my infinite wisdom, having my kids gone through that, um, you know, you realize like you have way, much, way less influence than you think you do. And the kids are on their own path starting at a young age, and you can open doors for them and, and be their caddy. And my favorite analogy for sports is like, you know, the kid calls for the six iron. You make a, a, a light suggestion that a five iron might be better and the kids committed to the six iron, all those kind of things that caddies do with their player. But, you know, to, to think that you have more influence and try to exert that influence, that’s the ego and that’s the, the parents’ insecurity and whatever other things are coming into the mix to cloud there judgment.
Sasha (00:48:42):
Well, and I think that we do have a tremendous amount of influence and effect on our kids, but it’s in a very different way, you know? Mm-hmm. That, that truly making our kids understand that we love them unconditionally, but then also actually loving them unconditionally. Right. <laugh>,
Brad (00:49:00):
<laugh>, that’s a great one.
Sasha (00:49:03):
I think that
Brad (00:49:04):
Is soundbite for the show right there. <laugh>, There, it’s, you’re welcome. <laugh> your mouth moves really well, and then you’re showing me the exact opposite when I’m driving home from the, the, the ball game and you’re, you’re critiquing my performance and Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah,
Sasha (00:49:20):
Exactly. Exactly. Or, you know, that I, I tell you, I love you unconditionally, but then you bring home a bad grade and you know, it hits the fan, you know? No. Like, it’s, it’s a very, very, good place for me in my life right now to have recognized that, you know, that, to realize what that really looks like. And there’s a tremendous amount of freedom there, because when you love somebody unconditionally, it doesn’t matter what they do, like you just get to love them, right? And that’s, that’s sort of amazing. And like you’re saying, you know, you, if you can gently suggest the five iron, but if they really, the six, like that’s what you hand them and you know, then you, then you support ’em in their choice. And I think that that’s, you know, parenting.
Brad (00:50:04):
Yeah, that’s great. I, I remember saying, trying to say to my kids more than once, like, look, we already have a hundred senators in the US. We’re not, there’s no shortage. There’s enough doctors, there’s enough lawyers, there’s enough accountants, there’s enough, uh, fill in the blank PR executives for major Hollywood, uh, movie studios. And I wanted the idea to come across that, like, you can follow whatever path you want without feeling that pressure and that expectation and that burden that society puts on you for one. And then parents have a way of, oh, what’s your major, art history? Oh, that’s really interesting. Uh, what are you gonna, what do you plan to do with that is always the question. And I see that at, you know, big dining table at the restaurant where some kid shows up and they’re a freshman, and it’s like, it’s going into their psyche and it’s having extremely harmful effect.
Brad (00:50:56):
So I’m, I’m fighting hard to like counterbalance that with like, there’s enough fish taco eating surf bombs in Baja right now too. But if you desire to be one of them, you know, take that pressure off and, and find your way. And then sometimes you get to reminisce with the stories of, you know, Steve Jobs, crashing the calligraphy class at Hood Junior College outside of Portland. And, you know, it, it still turns out to be rich and meaningful in some way, but you challenge the word success, which is also great because like there’s no guarantee that the a hundred senators are happy people either nor the 500 CEOs of the fortune companies. In fact, there’s a lot of times some difficulty and struggle and suffering for those who rise to the highest level of society.
Sasha (00:51:47):
Also, you know, success is such a funny thing. I I interviewed this kid named Jack Flores. He was a senior in high school at the time, and he had cerebral palsy and he ran for his track and his cross country teams. And he said in the cross country races, he was, or maybe it was the 800 that he was always last. And he said, I come in last every single race. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I said, but Jack, you beat every single person who didn’t line up on the start line that day. Like you beat all of those guys. And he was laughing about it and he said, you know, we’re gonna get shirts made that say, you know, I beat everybody sitting on their couch. And, but there is some, there is some truth to that, right? That that success, a lot of success is just showing up. And if it was something that’s bringing you joy, then you know, you won.
Brad (00:52:30):
Oh my gosh, I not sure if I mentioned this when you were interviewing me on your show, but, um, today when I’m running in these old man track and field meets and high jumping in empty high school stadium that I snuck into to practice, and if I clear the bar, I scream this, you know, incredible joy and satisfaction that is exactly the same as when I was racing on the pro circuit and on ESPN getting interviewed with the giant check and all these things that made it seem more serious and more important than this goofy stuff I’m doing now. But to me, deep down inside, it’s, it’s all about the, the journey and pursuing peak performance and the outside parameters I guess. ’cause we can age and mature and have a better perspective, but it’s like, it’s, it’s everything to me in a similar manner to things that were more poofed up with more, you know, dressing around them.
Brad (00:53:24):
And same with the winner of the race at the track meet versus last place. The clock is still ticking. That’s why I like track and field and cross country, which I participated in high school. ’cause like the cross country team, there’s no cut. It’s co-ed, everyone goes to the park, everyone gets a great workout, and the person who ran a 27 34 last week is now under 27 and they can raise their arms at the finish line. It doesn’t matter if they didn’t score. And, and all those things, it’s like everyone can have a celebration of peak performance. And it’s great. And I think, like you described, you can do that in every sport if you want. Even when you have, uh, deficient volleyball players around you in the adult league or whatever.
Sasha (00:54:04):
<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, to hear you describe that and the joy that it brings you, that just feels to me like what it’s all about. That makes me so happy to hear you say that because I think that that’s very, very true and very, very wise to think that it is not all about the dressing. That a lot of times we think that it is. But having a kiddo, for instance, who is deliriously happy at a community college is way better than having a kid who is horribly miserable at an Ivy League. Right? So, so which one’s successful there? Like if you look at those two kids who’s, who’s successful And I think that the answer is clear. So it’s, you know, we get caught up in, in the trappings of things. And if we can let those go, I think that we, things tend to turn out better.
Brad (00:54:50):
Hopefully the kids can do a better job than today’s parent who might be accused of being lawnmower or helicopter parent. Maybe they’re just can awaken more and listen to podcast episodes such as this and get some perspective, you know, <laugh>.
Sasha (00:55:04):
Yeah. And I, I think it is worth pointing out that it hurts the parents too. You know, that parents, when when we parent that way, it, it doesn’t just damage the kid. Like it’s damaging you and it’s damaging your relationship. And so when we can take a step back, ’cause we’re all guilty of it. Like I am absolutely judgment-free zone when it comes to parenting because I know how hard it is and it’s so easy to get caught up in those things. But you’re hurting yourself, uh, when, when you behave that way. So if you can take a look and be like, yeah, this isn’t working so well. Like, is is there another way to do it? Because there is, there is. And everybody will be happier and, and it’s, and it happens fast, you know, you can make that shift really quickly just like what you’re talking about, you know, with, with the talk on the way home from the game that you get to decide what you talk about on the way home from the game. And you know, if you talk about what you’re gonna have on your pizza, that that can be way more fun.
Brad (00:55:59):
I’m thinking of one ride I took with my son where they lost the championship game in this, you know, holiday tournament. And it was a three-hour drive from home and he had a, he had a bad first few minutes of the first half and if you get two fouls, the coach benches you for the duration of the half. So he had two cheap fouls and then he sat there and watched his team, you know, perform without him. And then they, they should have won the game they lost. And I’m like, this is gonna be a rough drive. This is gonna be a rough drive. And so I thought to myself, don’t be the first one to speak. I am resolved to that no matter what. So he gets in the car and we drive 90 minutes to the halfway point and he says, can we stop at Chipotle?
Brad (00:56:39):
And I said, sure. And he wolfs down the giant burrito and the rest of the drive was him driving the discussion really for the first time. ’cause I’m someone who can talk a lot, that’s why I have a podcast. And he’s maybe a little more of a quiet, you know, teenager at that time. And it was such a great experience because I for some reason had the thought like, this is not the time to mouth off about anything. Even, you know, what do you call it where you’re commiserating like, dang, that coach and that stupid rule about sitting you with two fouls, why didn’t they, you know, all that stuff. You’re trying to be a well-meaning parent. But I’ve seen so many times where it’s overcooked and the kid doesn’t get to own anything. We talked about Carol Dweck’s work, I think on our show where, um, that that life changing insight where she said, you know, parents say, I’m proud of you all the time to their kids when they bring home a good art project or when they get accepted into Ivy League school, or they finish their application for the local junior college.
Brad (00:57:36):
I’m proud of you for this, I’m proud of you for that. And every time you say that, you kind of potentially turn the kid into a show pony for parental approval rather than allowing the kid to own entirely their own success, whereby you would challenge that statement and never say it again. And instead say, you should be very proud of yourself for applying and getting accepted to that college, or scoring 30 points in the basketball game and dominating for your team or whatever it was. And that, that, that one’s
Sasha (00:58:09):
I’ll modify it even further, which is that I don’t love should statements because when somebody tells me that I should do something or I should be proud of myself, I prickle a little bit. Mm-hmm. And with my kids, I tend to ask ’em, are you proud of yourself?
Brad (00:58:22):
Oh, nice.
Sasha (00:58:24):
And they, they get to claim it. Like, then they get to say, yeah. And, and sometimes they’re not. Sometimes they’ll be like, eh, you know, not really. Yeah. Other times they’re like, huh. Yeah, I’m proud of myself.
Brad (00:58:34):
Yeah, that’s great. He’s
Sasha (00:58:35):
A little bit of a different, a different conversation
Brad (00:58:38):
Open-ended. Tell me how you feel about the game <laugh>, right? That you sat for the whole dang first half. We had a 12 point lead and Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sasha (00:58:46):
Tell me how you feel about the game.
Brad (00:58:48):
Yeah. Then you can get, then you can get slapped in the face for being a, you know, a fake parent that’s just trying to push all the buttons and, and plug in. So what are your, what are some of your favorite things about doing your podcast, Sasha?
Sasha (00:59:03):
I just love, love, love all of the people who I have met and all of the conversations that I have that would not exist in the world if I hadn’t launched this show. Hmm. It is that something that I did not anticipate was the relationships that I would have with people like you. You know, that there is something so intimate about sitting and talking to somebody about things and asking them questions because I think that a lot of times in life either we’re embarrassed that we don’t already know something about somebody, right? Think about all your friends who, like you are like, shoot, I should know why, where did he go to school? Like, or Hmm. You know, all these things that you’re kind of embarrassed, whereas you and I a hosting podcast, you don’t have that embarrassment, right? You just get to ask all the questions and pretend like it’s for your listeners when in fact, you know, it’s just for your own edification.
Sasha (00:59:53):
So I think that that’s a huge part of it. The opportunities it’s has afforded me have been incredible. You know, I am now a community ambassador for United Cerebral Palsy of Central Arizona, which is something that’s come completely through the show, you know, that I’ve gotten to do things and go places and meet people that I never would’ve. So from a personal, from a personal standpoint, that has been transformative for me. So even if nobody ever listened to the show, I would’ve gotten those things out of it. So it makes those other goals of listenership and you know, how high you’re ranked and all of those things become secondary, which for me is really important.
Brad (01:00:31):
I love that. I agree. I know there’s a lot of coaching blather out there where you’re supposed to ask yourself, you know, what John Di Martini a great what does he, what does he call it? It’s, uh, your inspired purpose. He wants you to in pursue your inspired purpose in life. And the question to ask is, uh, what do you do every day spontaneously that requires no motivation and gives you joy, satisfaction and fulfillment and contributes to, uh, the, to making the world a better place. And so it’s easy to answer. I I love doing these podcasts. I love having you on the show and doing our, our flip flop there. It definitely falls into that category of inspired purpose. And I think it’s important for everyone to ask that because a lot of times there’s that weight that comes down and, you know, it’s a, it’s a lot of effort. The economics are not easy as, as any podcaster knows, but these are the things that we are, are called to do and, uh, are obligated to continue, I think.
Sasha (01:01:32):
Well, and I’ve just been absolutely astounded by how open people are with their stories, you know, that that the things that people have shared on my show and the vulnerability that people have shown and the experiences that we all get to learn from. Hmm. Incredible. It’s incredible the way that people have shown up for the show. And, and that has sort of reestablished my faith in humanity, which is those
Brad (01:01:56):
Small feet and sports
Sasha (01:01:58):
<laugh> and sports, you know, it could be about anything though. You know, maybe if it was, if I was talking to people who were, you know, farmers in the Midwest where I think that we could, we could find common ground somewhere. It just happens to be, you know, my show just happens to be about sports. Like that’s the unifying, that’s the mm-hmm <affirmative>. Factor.
Brad (01:02:15):
What role does sports and or fitness play in your daily life now? Know, your own participation, I mean,
Sasha (01:02:24):
Right, right. So, you know, I play in a sand volleyball power fours team, um, every week. My
Brad (01:02:30):
What about the hot sand? Isn’t it too hot?
Sasha (01:02:33):
Yeah, so we, we do take the summer, um, <laugh> summer session off. And it’s funny because for part of the year we wear sand socks because the sand is too cold. And for part of the year we sit wear sand socks ’cause it’s too hot. So, you know, you establish, you know, or you, uh, you work it out. But for a lot of the year it’s just gorgeous. It’s absolutely gorgeous. So that is my community, my husband also plays on the team. My husband’s six four and he’s a great hitter. And so it’s really fun as teammates, you know, that I think that if you can have a partner who’s also a teammate in more ways than one, that, that is really, really valuable. And so I’m a setter and he’s my hitter and, you know, that’s, that’s pretty magical. So we have that. I also, like I said, I work out with a trainer every week who is, I’ve been with the same trainer for, uh, I think about three years now. And she’s incredibly important in my life. Like, do I still need a trainer? Probably not. I love having the appointment with her. I love, you know, the time with her and it really brings a lot of joy to my life. So that’s something I’ve told her, like, she’s gonna have to fire me because I’m just gonna keep showing up. <laugh>,
Brad (01:03:39):
Oh, I, there’s so much to be said for that, especially since I don’t have that trainer relationship and I would love to have a local convenient trainer that keeps me accountable and, and gets me there. And I think those who are great in that career are emphasizing the camaraderie, the personal relationship, and of course the instruction and the motivation and all that. But like getting somewhere to meet someone to work on your fitness is solid gold. Yeah.
Sasha (01:04:07):
There are a couple guys at the gym who always tease us because we laugh the entire time. <laugh>, right. And so there, there’s one guy in particular, his name CJ who walks up almost every week and says, you guys are always laughing. You make exercise look like it’s so much fun. <laugh>
Brad (01:04:21):
Awesome. So
Sasha (01:04:22):
Those are my, those are my regular things, you know, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of fitness, you know, peripheral fitness when you love, when you love sports, like you find ways to, to do it all the time. So, you know, we, we do lots of fun things and lots of hiking and kayaking and, you know, I’ve played pickleball a few times and, you know, all sorts of, all sorts of active outdoor things in this beautiful state that we live in.
Brad (01:04:43):
Sasha Graham, keep up the great work. I encourage everybody to go and listen to some episodes of Sports Will Save us all. <laugh>.
Sasha (01:04:51):
Thank you.
Brad (01:04:51):
Thanks for being on the B.rad Podcast. Yeah.
Sasha (01:04:54):
I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna concentrate on being rad today. That’s all
Brad (01:04:57):
Right,
Sasha (01:04:58):
<laugh>. Thanks Brad.
Brad (01:04:59):
That’s a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to the B RAD podcast. We appreciate all feedback and suggestions. Email podcast@bradventures.com and visit brad kerns.com to download five free eBooks and learn some great long cuts to a longer life. How to optimize testosterone naturally, become a dark chocolate connoisseur and transition to a barefoot and minimalist shoe lifestyle.
